Microsoft Xbox's Community Guidelines Now Explain 'Acceptable Trash Talk' (vice.com) 175
"Looking for some new sick burns to throw out at other players on Xbox Live? Microsoft's got you covered," reports Motherboard:
In its new community standards, published this week, the company's got some examples of acceptable trash talk, including gems like:
- Get destroyed. Can't believe you thought you were on my level.
- That was some serious potato aim. Get wrecked.
- Only reason you went positive was you spent all game camping. Try again, kid.
- Cheap win. Come at me when you can actually drive without running cars off the road.
- That sucked. Get good and then come back when your k/d's over 1....
"We get it -- gaming can be competitive and interactions with other players can get heated," the community standards state. "A little trash talk is an expected part of compe titive multiplayer action, and that's not a bad thing. But hate has no place here, and what's not okay is when that trash talk turns into harassment." Microsoft defines acceptable trash talk as "light-hearted banter or bragging" that's focused directly on the game and "encourages healthy competition." Harassment is "negative behavior that's personalized, disruptive, or likely to make someone feel unwelcome or unsafe..."
For breaking the rules, players can expect consequences, but Microsoft is hesitant to call it a punishment "We're not out to punish, but rather to protect everyone's experience," the standards note. For every "corrective action" -- which the standards state could be a suspension, or a restriction on the ability to send messages or stream live -- Microsoft wants its players to learn from their mistakes; players will be welcomed back to the community to prove they've changed their ways, the company says. But that doesn't mean every abusive gamer will be welcomed back into the fold. Repeat offenders or particularly severe abuse will garner a permanent suspension, the standards state, which requires the profile owner to "forfeit all licenses for games and other content, Gold membership time, and Microsoft account balances."
- Get destroyed. Can't believe you thought you were on my level.
- That was some serious potato aim. Get wrecked.
- Only reason you went positive was you spent all game camping. Try again, kid.
- Cheap win. Come at me when you can actually drive without running cars off the road.
- That sucked. Get good and then come back when your k/d's over 1....
"We get it -- gaming can be competitive and interactions with other players can get heated," the community standards state. "A little trash talk is an expected part of compe titive multiplayer action, and that's not a bad thing. But hate has no place here, and what's not okay is when that trash talk turns into harassment." Microsoft defines acceptable trash talk as "light-hearted banter or bragging" that's focused directly on the game and "encourages healthy competition." Harassment is "negative behavior that's personalized, disruptive, or likely to make someone feel unwelcome or unsafe..."
For breaking the rules, players can expect consequences, but Microsoft is hesitant to call it a punishment "We're not out to punish, but rather to protect everyone's experience," the standards note. For every "corrective action" -- which the standards state could be a suspension, or a restriction on the ability to send messages or stream live -- Microsoft wants its players to learn from their mistakes; players will be welcomed back to the community to prove they've changed their ways, the company says. But that doesn't mean every abusive gamer will be welcomed back into the fold. Repeat offenders or particularly severe abuse will garner a permanent suspension, the standards state, which requires the profile owner to "forfeit all licenses for games and other content, Gold membership time, and Microsoft account balances."
Are they going to get a refund? (Score:3)
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It's not dead, it's just resting.
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It's pining for the fjords
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You know, it would be a real shame if someone blew up the fact that Microsoft suggested people use the term "potato aim" when "potato" is a well-known slur for autistic people, especially on the chan boards.
They basically just told people to use an ablist slur.
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The only noteworthy thing here is, "forfeit all licenses for games and other content
Similar, from the PS network... (Score:2)
BEast one I ever saw (on-line racing):
" He no make fast, so I put in wall"
Re: Arbitrary (Score:2, Insightful)
It isn't legal, but they won't do anything about it since upsetting people is criminal behavior in Europe.
Re:Arbitrary (Score:4, Insightful)
But if they prevent people from playing the game offline it would be a violation of EU consumer rights.
In games like pay to play MMOs the consumers were eligible to refunds for the time they already paid for and could not longer use. I am not sure how this would be handled with all the currently popular micropayment traps that so many foolish people are falling for.
Well, maybe this will call a bit more attention from consumer protection in Europe after "loot boxes" have already been forgotten by now.
HARdeeHAR (Score:4, Insightful)
Makes games where you 'kill' people. Tells people "hate has no place here". Irony at its best.
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Even duels had rules and a proper etiquette.
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Even duels had rules and a proper etiquette.
Rule number 1: It is well and proper to send that one who offends thy honour to meet his maker.
Rule number 2: In no case shall boo-boo feelings be inflicted. We are civilized gentlemen when all is said and done.
Re: HARdeeHAR (Score:2)
Why did people duel?
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because they didn't have TV or internet back then. Had to make your own entertainment.
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Why did people duel?
Between Linux and Windows, I think.
1995 internet just called (Score:2)
Hot Key Insults (Score:3)
Microsoft needs to go to the next step and add menu/hot-keys of pre-approved insults...in multiple languages.
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Microsoft needs to go to the next step and add menu/hot-keys of pre-approved insults...in multiple languages.
This is pretty much what Nintendo does. Thing is, you want to drop some f-bombs when you're getting Bob-omb'd in Mario Kart. So you set up a Facebook/Skype/whatever group call with the other players on your smartphones, and Nintendo is none the wiser that everyone is cussing like drunken sailors while flinging Koopa shells.
This shit shouldn't be necessary, but apparently video game console companies can't seem to figure out how an "opt-out" setting works.
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It's been a while but back when I was playing online games in the early 2000s they had that feature. In Medal of Honour, for example, there were hotkeys for various insults, and depending on which side you were on they would be in English or German.
Dude (Score:2)
You need to go commit Sudoku!
Protect everyone's experience? (Score:3, Insightful)
Pay for the software.
Have to get access to a network.
Now get told how to play the game you paid for all year?
About further changes to content use when playing your computer game?
Who would want to keep paying for "consequences" "suspension" "restriction" "standards" "forfeit all licenses" "balances"?
Take your money and invest in a real fun game that have freedom of speech and let you enjoy a game that you paid for.
Do you really want to have to think about a new set of politically correct "standards" when you are enjoying your computer game in your own time?
How about the experience of the people who "pay" for the game?
Invest in a computer game that gives you your own way of finding players and connecting.
Find a company that respects your free time when you want to play a computer game.
Your not "working" for the company that made the game.
That was a product they sold you to use during your own time.
You have the freedom to say what you want during your own time.
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I actually try to avoid playing games that I can't host my own server for. But most decent online games allow you to do just that still. Rust being my latest game. But I started with the likes of TF2 and Unreal Tournament. There are actually a bunch of games on steam you can host your own server on. And for most of them you don't even have to own the game to set a server up.
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You're crazy. The game that Invented skins and lootboxes(TF2 and CS) have allowed you to run your own server since almost day 1. They like it even more because then they just need to setup an aggregation server that your server tells its up and running. More servers, less overhead for them. Also there is no real way to avoid steam. And I like what they are doing for the linux side of gaming. So I try to support then whenever possible, but I don't play games much so they don't make much money off of me.
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Actually you can create all kinds of mini games with TF2, I mean, its based off of the completely modable HL2. Sure it takes some work, but its able to be done. You can do it just in the maps too. since its free2play you should download it and then check out some of the trade servers. Most of them are heavily modded. and CS=Counter Strike. Also, TF2 has had lootboxes since about the time it came out, I think 2nd update brought unusual hats. I cant remember and too lazy to look right now, been a long time.
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There's a super easy solution: don't be a dick.
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Thats a product the game playing person paid for to enjoy away from work.
The person playing a game in their own free time is not "working" for a company.
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If your free time is using someones service, then the answer is Yes. Thats how capitalism works.
Theres an alternative, but its historically unpopular with Americans, and its just as unlikely to give you a free pass to hurl agressive language at other peoples children
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Re "using someones service"...that the "game" "owner" had to "pay" for?
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Yes. How about the experience of people who "pay" for the game?
Did they pay to have to listen to threats of violence? Death threats?
You probably shouldn't play first-person shooters if you don't like violence. And, seriously, that's the only genre where "toxic gamers" are common (well, lumping over-the-shoulder in with first person).
This just isn't a problem with puzzle games, for example, or battle tetris, or turn-based strategy, or anything else that wasn't centered on teenage boys as its target demographic. Heck, even games like SC2, where emotions to run high and people get salty, you never see more than insults about intelligenc
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You probably shouldn't play first-person shooters if you don't like violence. And, seriously, that's the only genre where "toxic gamers" are common (well, lumping over-the-shoulder in with first person).
It's almost as if edgy trash talk was half the point of shooters. You know, as if it were a safe place for teens to be teens and everyone else knows to keep clear.
This is just a weird "appeal to tradition" argument. Just because FPSes have been this toxic for years doesn't mean we have to accept it be this way forever. If a company wants to try and clean up behavior that they feel is toxic, in their games, I don't see why that should be discouraged. With the way social culture is today though, this is probably a contentious take now.
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This is just a weird "appeal to tradition" argument. Just because FPSes have been this toxic for years doesn't mean we have to accept it be this way forever.
You've mistaken my point. Every street needs a gutter. Every form of entertainment needs that dark corner where edgelords are drained to to keep them out of the way of normies. For gaming, the gutter is first-person shooters, because of its specific demographic appeal. If you don't allow a "safe space" for edgelords to congregate, they'll spread out and infect everything. And no one sane wants that.
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That gutter doesn't need to be in the middle of the street or on the sidewalk where everyone is walking. Toxic players ruin games. Its a big reason for why I've seen people stop playing DOTA, LoL, Overwatch and many other multiplayer competitive games. Its a big reason for why some people won't even touch multiplayer games that have chat and/or voice chat. Does there need to be a metaphoric gutter in video games? Personally I don't think so, but even if there does need to be one, it doesn't have to be on ma
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There's a difference between violence within the game's context and threats of violence as well as death threats on a "meta level". Most of us adults are well capable to distinguish between the two.
Clearly not, If you confuse a death threat in an online game with strangers, who cannot possibly know who you are and where you live, with a genuine threat, you have failed to distinguish between fantasy violence and actual violence.
If you're running your own private server, hey, do whatever. This is why the ability to run your own server is so important for these sorts of games. Gives everyone the freedom of association.
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But I imagine the next thing you'll tell me is that people need to be a lot more careful with their privacy and who they add as friends on Steam, which then makes it somehow right that these people must be allowed to be harassed.
Never use your real name online. Simple as that.
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Well, apparantly you don't 'BUY' anything from M$, they just steal your money and let you 'BORROW' something which they can take back at any time, with or without a refund. Well, M$, you are a pack of thieving cunts, what more can be said. I don't buy M$ and look, why would it, they can change conditions of contract at any time according to them and steal the stuff back you paid for but they claim they only lent it to you with the right to take it back at any time for any reason. Just a shitty supplier you
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That just means you would be garbage in any game that takes team work and coordination. Just playing your own little game, while everyone else is trying to play the game you joined.
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Most people want to enjoy the game and competition, not be screamed about by a potty mouth 14 year old.
It's not just language either. In racing games there are people who are there to actually race and play with sportsmanship, and there are people who are there to just ram or cheat. It's why games like Gran Turismo have a sportsmanship rating, and why Forza is currently trying to implement one.
Plus there is going to be all the usual spamming and scams running. If there is no moderation the system will suck
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Most people can put people like that on "ignore" (to include just ignoring him, if that's the only option available)....
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Muting people doesn't stop them ramming you off the track. The rules on what is acceptable in chat are just part of the wider system that seeks to create a better experience for the majority of players.
I'm all for them having a special rammers/shit talkers lobby where people can go if they want that sort of thing.
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Race car demolition derby O.o
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Most people want to enjoy the game and competition, not be screamed about by a potty mouth 14 year old.
It's not just language either. In racing games there are people who are there to actually race and play with sportsmanship, and there are people who are there to just ram or cheat. It's why games like Gran Turismo have a sportsmanship rating, and why Forza is currently trying to implement one.
Plus there is going to be all the usual spamming and scams running. If there is no moderation the system will suck for the majority of people.
And there you hit on the entire problem and flaw of multiplayer games. It is almost impossible to regulate everyone's behavior. And it is exactly impossible to regulate it to the level of the most sensitive players in the room. Because that becomes a moving goal. Because after you get rid of the swearing 14 year olds, you start getting rid of players who merely salt their language.
This can be a real money issue. Once you make the room safe enough for the most sensitive, it is uninteresting for the 99 per
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Gran Turismo has a fairly decent concept with the sportsmanship rating. You need to build yours up to get into the more serious races where people play fair.
The problem is that the penalty system is often unable to correctly assign blame. For example if you get bumped off the track you often get a penalty of cutting a corner through no fault of your own. If you pinball into someone else you might get blamed for ramming, and in a pile-up (not uncommon at the first corner) it's often difficult even for humans
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The good old: where does it stop? The slippery slope fallacy.
I have no idea where you get slippery slope out of what I wrote. There are all kinds of people in this world, some with very tender sensibilities, and others a tad coarser, like my one friend from Junior High, sat beside me on the school bus and blurted out: "Fuck the fucking Fuckers!" I was impressed with turning one word into a proper sentence.
The twain won't ever meet. And giving the users a choice of R-Rated, or G-Rated. Or even a Positive comments only group, where no microagressions, AK criticism,
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Be my guest.
There, that is the slippery slope.
It's got that nice and slippery sentiment of once you start doing that it'll become a "moving goal" where you then absolutely must do that and the next thing and you'll ultimately end up with almost no one playing any more.
Well, that is more a time proven course of action. I've always considered a slippery slope something like allowing boys and girls to hold hands, so next thing you know, everyone will be screwing animals. Like a complete collapse of civilization because of something that seems innocuous.
But okay, I'll allow it. Don't want to mess with other folks definitions.
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Where's the proof that it inevitably will turn into a "moving goal"?
Correct - it doesn't. My idea of a regular competitive room, a G rated room, and a room where no criticisms are allowed, and no rankings has no goalposts to move, unless someone just wants it done away with altogether. It is pretty difficult to complain about trash talk anf potty mouth if there is a room where none of that is allowed. Yet more competitive people can have their environment too. Wins all around.
Now if Microsoft was run by morons who also were not greedy enough to go where the money is, and instead would blindly follow political ideology, that could be true. But despite all the hatred I may have for them, the people in charge are smarter than that. This makes it unlikely that this course of action would be followed until they lost most of their customers.
Separation of elements is the need. Its a common denominator problem. Trying to enforce a one siz
structured blowback (Score:2)
The system needs to track the player's sportsmanship mana score (winning through the expression of honest ability).
When the player's mana score gets too low, the system needs to amend vitriolic posts to add final sentences like:
* Of course, I'm just saying this because I'm a talentless schmuck and a sore loser, but ...
or initial sentences like:
* Did you know, I reamed somebody on the first lap in eight of
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The current penalty system, if the bugs could be fixed, does at least encourage people to play better and improve. Sportsmanship mana is fine as long as a player who makes an effort can quickly boost it up an get into good games.
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What about these? (Score:4, Funny)
What about this trash talk? I've always found it does the trick.
"This is exactly why your mother doesn't love you."
"Your parents are getting a divorce!"
"Yeah, I am definitely ashamed of you."
I only play Super Smash Bros. against my kids in the living room but they are good sports and don't cry that much... anymore... where I can see them. ;)
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Maybe if we start telling people the brain is an app they will start using it.
Thank you for this gem.
Or maybe they could just give users a mute button (Score:2)
Blizzard gives you the ability to ignore toxic players (or players that just annoy you, like Porkshank). I guess that's too hard for Microsoft.
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Some suggested additions: (Score:2)
After your teammate doesn't spend any money-between rounds and gets wasted by someone on the opposing team who'd purchased a BFG: "Lazyass, good for nothing niggard [merriam-webster.com]."
After killing someone with a flamethrower: "I lit him up like the little faggot [oxforddictionaries.com] that he was."
etc.
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I can't believe were almost half way through 2019 and people still don't use ad blockers and script blockers.
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You can always you explain how someone is not the opposite of blocked insults.
Ah, the good old days of CS, and insulting AWPers. Now, it's been scientifically proven that using a scoped rifle in CS makes you gay, so many servers blocked or cheesgratered any word that was a synonym of gay. Our go-to insults were along the lines of "put down the AWP and embrace a life of heterosexuality". That pattern worked reliably even on the Christian servers.
Microsoft Is Hereby and Forever, The Cuck Platform (Score:1)
"Potato Aim" is one for the archive (Score:3)
The next time I play against someone in an FPS, I now will be sure to accuse them of "potato aim" if I do slightly better than they did...
Even if in reality I'm firing off more potatoes than a McDonalds's.
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The next time I play against someone in an FPS, I now will be sure to accuse them of "potato aim" if I do slightly better than they did...
Even if in reality I'm firing off more potatoes than a McDonalds's.
It's a bad term anyhow. I got hit by a potato once, and it hurt like hell. Their potato aim was perfect.
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Or another way to put it, if you can aim a potato, you can pretty much aim anything.
We need a Parody game, like "Potato Force Omega".
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aka Thats racist!
Comment removed (Score:3)
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That's a very odd way of looking at it. Video games mostly use avatars, often with next to no personality or explicitly supposed to represent you, e.g. your driver in a racing game. One of the main differences between watching a movie and playing a game is that the character becomes inseparable from the player, because most of their actions and choices are made by the person holding the controller.
If you spin out and crash no-one is going to insult your character for being a bad driver, they are going to in
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If you spin out and crash no-one is going to insult your character for being a bad driver, they are going to insult you personally for being a bad driver.
No, no no no!
Maybe it explains a little bit of the difference in outlook. Most people look at all this as part of the game. Others might look at it as some sort of reality.
And some people are really sensitive and get booboo feelings quickly, and jackass that I am, I just laugh at myself, might even tell someone mocking or insulting me that they are right.
The only way this can be fixed is to allow the sensitive to only see what doesn't offend them.
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It is reality. Achievements in the game are as real as achievements in "real life" sports. For most people there is no meaningful difference between "online" and "offline".
As for "booboo feelings", what can I tell you? Most people feel that unsportsmanlike behaviour and a constant stream of edgelord bullshit is not much fun, and feelings don't even come in to it.
That's why the sportsmanship rating works relatively well in GT. People like you end up in the cesspit server where no-one cars and everyone is con
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It is reality. Achievements in the game are as real as achievements in "real life" sports. For most people there is no meaningful difference between "online" and "offline".
As for "booboo feelings", what can I tell you? Most people feel that unsportsmanlike behaviour and a constant stream of edgelord bullshit is not much fun, and feelings don't even come in to it.
That's why the sportsmanship rating works relatively well in GT. People like you end up in the cesspit server where no-one cars and everyone is constantly calling you a faggot, while people who actually want to race and improve and enjoy a simulation that is somewhat akin to real life aren't bothered by it.
Ahem..... I played Ice Hockey for many years. I was the Captain of my team, and we won our league many years. It was a "real life sport, and very competitive. I either played Left D or Center. That's the background. It's a pretty rough sport, and I've got the physical booboos to prove it.
Now, to your claim. In the world of competition, there's a lot of talking going on. 90 percent of the time, it ain't pretty either. I did happen to be really good at it too. I tried to stay away from telling my oppo
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Most people feel that unsportsmanlike behaviour and a constant stream of edgelord bullshit is not much fun, and feelings don't even come in to it.
"Most people" feel that AmiMoJo just blatantly makes up shit to support whatever the argument de jure is.
For most people there is no meaningful difference between "online" and "offline".
indeed, and most fans I've talked to think that it would be more fun if players were allowed to engage in more involved touchdown celebrations.
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And you have to have thick enough skin to know its a game, and that its a random person on the internet. What happened to the days when people weren't whiny bitches about everything? Its a game, not real life. If you get offended by stupid shit, you probably shouldn't play stupid games. You should work on fixing yourself before taking time to play stupid games on the internet.
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Since everyone is essentially an actor playing a fictitious character in an imaginary world, then anybody who takes any trash talk personally is having trouble separating fantasy from reality, which it should be handled by their psychiatrist, not by Microsoft.
Y'all ever notice how many people are on drugs these days for treating mental illness?
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Or the classic... (Score:2)
You've got a lot to learn before you beat me. Try again, kiddo!
Smack talk is for the weak (Score:2)
Rather, cool and emotionless non-reactions to provocations are truly terrifying. Make full eye contact and smile. They'll often figure you've got them outmaneuvered and will disengage.
Why not put two tiers? (Score:2)
Maybe MS could license Google Translate (Score:1)
In your game settings, you can select how triggerable / sensitive you are, and all communications are translated to the most polite of canadian apologies.
If its M or AO (Score:2)
M and AO allows fuck, shit and the like.
The fucking idiots need to know that they are fucking idiots and that their mother is a cheap half penny cum slut.
Don't like it don't play. Or at least mute everyone and whitelist your friends.
Re: Sounds good to me (Score:4, Insightful)
No. It's not a company's job to apply social pressure. It's supposed to be *social* pressure. This is just theft.
Re: Sounds good to me (Score:2)
yes. Sherrif Microsoft is laying down the law. And itâ(TM)s stating how itâ(TM)s going to be policed and how punishments are to be applied.
Donâ(TM)t like it? Move to another town.
Re: Sounds good to me (Score:2)
Companies are part of society. If nobody wants you around, the company has every right to kick you out. The ones who get serious about this will probably wind up with even more business, just by beimg able to advertise that they don't let basement-dwellers ruin it for everyone.
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Re: Sounds good to me (Score:2)
Been there, done that. Wasn't fun. Eventually I got the message that I was the problem and I needed to change. Life got better shockingly quickly after that.
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Nope, it means sucking your thumb like a little baby. Sheesh.