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Classic Games (Games) AI Idle

Does Monopoly's Cash-Free AI Banker Teach the Wrong Lessons? (marketwatch.com) 160

"An updated version of the classic board game Monopoly has done away with cash entirely and now uses a voice-activated AI banker instead," reports MarketWatch, asking whether this teaches game-players the wrong lessons: This is not the first time Monopoly has reflected today's cashless world. A 2006 edition of the game in the United Kingdom featured Visa-branded credit cards instead of paper play money. Similar versions of the game are also available in the U.S. Last year, Hasbro even released a version called Monopoly for Millennials in which players compete to buy experiences rather than real estate.

The new technology may appeal to kids used to interacting with voice-activated digital assistants such as Amazon's Alexa, Apple's Siri or Microsoft's Cortana. Financial experts, however, remained on the fence about the game's educational value... By removing the physical element of the game, some argue that Monopoly's usefulness as a tool to teach children about money is reduced. "Removing physical Monopoly money reduces the educational benefit of the game by glossing over the important task of learning to manage and count your money," said Nicole Strbich, director of financial planning at Buckingham Advisors in Dayton, Ohio.

In the new version of the game, "The omnipotent talking top hat also will yell, 'YOU'RE BANKRUPT!' at you," reports CNET...

"Hey, Monopoly cheaters. Here's a version that won't let you sneak extra hundreds from the bank or neglect to pay your taxes."
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Does Monopoly's Cash-Free AI Banker Teach the Wrong Lessons?

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  • Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @05:37AM (#58812720)

    What about the physical pleasure of waving a large wad of cash at the other players when they have (almost) nothing?

    • Re:Stupid (Score:4, Interesting)

      by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @05:54AM (#58812758) Journal
      Fiddling with cash is half the fun of the game. It also takes up half the time it takes to finish a game. I remember playing Monopoly on a computer for the first time (probably an Amiga), and I was surprised at how fast the game was over when we didn't have to count out cash money all the time.
      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Fiddling with cash is half the fun of the game. It also takes up half the time it takes to finish a game. I remember playing Monopoly on a computer for the first time (probably an Amiga), and I was surprised at how fast the game was over when we didn't have to count out cash money all the time.

        I know an owner of a board game store. He surprised me one day by saying he was taking one of his Monopoly games home with him - basically because he had a choice of thousands of other games he could play with his kid

    • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      Not to mention the intimidation factor and some people not being able to actually tally their funds only judging by relative size of stacks etc.

      These things, the ability to make ad hoc decisions (like never counting the stupid property tax thing, alternate free parking strategies, etc are what makes the game. I've played computer versions and they are lame.

    • Agreed! Plus the fact that I would always have a couple of $100 bills stuck to the side to keep things interesting when it looked like I didn't have enough to get a property I would scoop them up. It is always fun when I would hear the protests. :)
  • Place all your trust in the AI peasant. It can do no wrong, it watches itself. Give up all your responsibilities and just go with it for the easy life. Yes, now isn't that better. You just exist, we will take of everything for you and we definitely have your best interests at heart, trust us.
  • The AI banker is teaching exactly the lesson it was intended to teach.

    • by jythie ( 914043 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @07:15AM (#58812978)
      Yeah.. considering monopoly has already become an icon for teaching the opposite lesson it was intended, I am not sure what baseline these people are talking fromi.
      • by Anonymous Coward

        It does not teach anything at all. It models a bizarre market that basically canâ(TM)t exist. Itâ(TM)s a highly deflationary market that presumes the bank must raise capital and is a motivated seller. The fun of the game is at the start you get a massive amount of cash that allows you to be a JP Morgan type actor who has money they can afford to lose and is interested in a longer view where asset prices eventually recover and money supply starts to expand again, although itâ(TM)s authors m

      • Yeah.. considering monopoly has already become an icon for teaching the opposite lesson it was intended, I am not sure what baseline these people are talking fromi.

        Maybe Monopoly should be treated as a game rather than a "teaching tool". I don't think "spend your money as quick as possible to buy the most expensive things possible in order to gain money back" is the best lesson to "teach" in all but a few examples.

    • by jrumney ( 197329 )
      To make it more realistic, the AI banker should randomly deduct fees from players, deny them access to their own money and declare themselves the winner at the end of every game. Only then will children learn real life lessons from the game.
      • by jrumney ( 197329 )
        To add more realism to the game, randomly when passing GO, instead of the usual AI banker announcing that you get $200 for passing GO, Richard John Smith III from the international inheritance department offers you $1m if you will first pay a transfer fee of $5000. At other times, Vladimir from the security department will alert you that your account has been frozen and you must urgently confirm your access details to reenable access to your funds.
  • thats real life. People who can cheat, will cheat. Machines are honest till the first person learn to hack it
    • People who can cheat, will cheat. Machines are honest till the first person learn to hack it

      Recent article comments suggest that slashdot no longer understands this.

  • by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @05:57AM (#58812770)

    Handling and counting money and paying for things in cash.

    The banks don't want that to continue either...

  • it is interesting that nowadays, any play has to be education and education has to be playful. It is simple: make a game. If people like to play it, great. If not, who cares, it will become irrelevant. I myself liked Monopoly with the real money. I felt that I iunderstand the game. I never played an electronic version but it could be similar as in real life. One has to worry about how it is implemented. Does the game take transaction fees? Does it sell your monopoly gaming skills to some company who scouts
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I never liked monopoly.
      It always devolved into who could convince the other players to let them win, or alternatively into an hours long dice spamming session until everyone accidentally bankrupted themselves.
      The entire game design is flawed.
      • by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Monday June 24, 2019 @08:51AM (#58813300) Journal

        You were playing it wrong.

        Back in my bachelor days, I lived in a house with 4 other guys and almost every day of the week, 3 or 4 of us would be playing Monopoly at least once per evening. We were ruthless to eachother, and definitely played to win.

        We had a few house rules that kept the game going, however. One, if you didn't call "rent" on somebody landing on your property before the next die roll, too bad so sad. You did not have to wait for a rent transaction to finish before taking your own turn, however... and it was the norm for the next person to be rolling and moving their token while the previous player was doing any post move parts of their turn. Two, absolutely all trading and purchases that you intended to carry out must be completed *before* you rolled the dice, and only on your own turn, unless the person whose turn it is has decided to include you in a trade. Unless you rolled doubles and could move again, the dice were fair game for the next player as soon as it was known which square you would land on. This would lead to the owner often calling rent before the token had even been advanced. There was a $50 fine (payable as any fine would be if you landed on chance or community chest) if you called rent on any property that did not belong to you. Three, it was required that you could not immediately buy hotels on a property that had not yet been developed, but you must first have four houses on a property for at least one full turn before upgrading to a hotel there. This meant that if there were housing shortages because there are too many houses being used, then hotel purchases could not be completed by anyone who did not already have enough houses themselves. Four, all money must be kept visible to other players, such that your approximate wealth could always be relatively accurately estimated by any other player. This would greatly impact strategy, as you determine which players are most able to afford to do certain things on their next turn.

        We all recognized that having monopolies anywhere on the board was vastly more desirable than having none, and generally once the last property was sold, the player whose turn it was at the time would open the table for trades, because especially if there were four or more of us, it was unlikely that anyone had a monopoly at this time. Trading to let other people get monopolies was not done so much to give other people any greater chance of winning as much as it was done to strategically try and optimize one's own chances of winning by acquiring one's own monopolies through trade, because ultimately, you cannot win the game if you don't have at least one monopoly. Highly different valued monopolies could easily be traded, usually with a cash incentive on one person's part, but sometimes even as a straight trade (dependent highly on the players' liquidity at the time of trade) because of the realization that development is generally faster on the lower valued properties... and if your opponents keep landing on your properties, they will often not have enough cash to upgrade their own monopolies, ideally before they have had a chance to upgrade much themselves. It's a gamble, and it ultimately depends on enough people landing on your property to keep yourself liquidated enough to keep upgrading your property, while hopefully leaving your opponents without enough cash to upgrade theirs. This factored into how much cash would typically be demanded in exchange for a highly desired property at trading time. If anyone acquired a monopoly before this point in the game, there'd usually be a strong bias against that player for the rest of the game, and they would often be excluded from being allowed to trade, or at the very least, demands for trading with them would run pretty high against them, usually requiring a large cash incentive. This trading session would usually only take a minute or two, and the game would resume, becoming a much higher stakes game at that point.

        While I know it's not part of the ac

        • by WallyL ( 4154209 )

          An interesting read. Thanks for sharing! Of course I've always played with the "Free parking lottery" house rule. My other house rules included trades could be very creative: "I'll sell you this orange property to give you a monopoly, if I never owe rent on the orange for the entire rest of the game, even if you later sell the properties." That quote didn't start out that long, but grew as we learned to just swap monopolies to clear any previous no-rent agreements, and had to then make the no-rent clauses a

    • Totally agree. Since when was Monopoly an educational game? If anything it's a lesson on the dangers of monopolies and unrestricted capitalism.

      • by GrumpySteen ( 1250194 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @07:03AM (#58812954)

        If anything it's a lesson on the dangers of monopolies and unrestricted capitalism.

        Yep. Those are the lessons Monopoly was always intended to teach [smithsonianmag.com].

        Since when was Monopoly an educational game?

        If something teaches a lesson, it's educational. You even recognized the lesson it was intended to teach, so why would you question whether it's an educational game?

        • If something teaches a lesson, it's educational. You even recognized the lesson it was intended to teach, so why would you question whether it's an educational game?

          It may have been intended to be, but that's not why most people purchase it or play it.

          It also sucks at education. Even by the standards of a board game it's basically nothing like how the economy or business world really works.

          Also, only with welfare do you get $200 just for passing Go ...

    • by jythie ( 914043 )
      That isn't really a 'nowadays' thing. The idea we have of 'play' today is an infantaized version of what it used to be, an abortion born of boomers idealizing their own childhood and mid-century marketers trying to change how we interact with their products. In many ways we just reaching the end of a fad and getting back to what 'play' has always been about.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Rob Lister ( 4174831 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @06:04AM (#58812794)
    In my youth, I probably played more than a hundred games of Monopoly. I never once was in a game where all the rules given in the instructions where followed; we probably ignored at least half. It might be fun to have to do so at least once. But it's just too boring.
    • I'm way into the hundreds, probably over a thousand (I hate the game).

      All fees to Free Parking FTW!

    • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

      Playing according to the rules actually makes Monopoly shorter and somewhat less mindnumbingly boring (still mindnumbingly boring, only slightly less so).
      The best way to play Monopoly is to throw it in the trash and play any other game.
      Like Wargames, the only way to win at Monopoly is not to play.

    • If you follow the rules, the game only lasts about an hour and is very cut-throat. Most people don't play by the rules because they learn the rules from their parents who eliminate things like auctioning of properties not bought by the player who landed on them first.
    • Choose a ruleset according to your politics . . .

      Trump Monopoly: Other players lend you money to build hotels. You default, yet they lend to you again the next time.

      Elizabeth Warren Monopoly: railroads replaced with Indian reservations--but you suddenly lose them 30 minutes into the game!

      AOC monopoly: like, you just print more money when you need it; the new monetary economics is *REAL*, you white bigot!

      Kamal Harris Monopoly: build your monopolies, but once a double-five is followed by a double-six, yo

  • Boring game (Score:5, Insightful)

    by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @06:31AM (#58812862)

    Monopoly is such a boring game. The game mechanics make plays very long, and the final part of the game is agonizing, because in most plays the winner is clear a long time before finishing the game. I know the game is called "Monopoly", and eventually one player gets it all, but the game is boring. It is amazing they managed to make so many variants and sell so many units.

    In the boardgamegeek site, it ranks 17,246 [boardgamegeek.com] out of 17,254 ranked board games [boardgamegeek.com], with an average rating of only 4.4 by more than 24K people. The variant with the best ranking is the Mario Bros version [boardgamegeek.com] launched in 2017, with a 6.6. I doubt that adding voice controls and AI will make it any funnier.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Nearly nobody plays by the actual rules. People even refuse to play.that way, because they think it is "wrong".

      A game, by the real rules, does not take long, and doesn't suck.
      It teaches you, however, that capitalism and monopolies are evil, and why. And that is, of course, nit something Americans are said to ever accept. (Cue the downmods.)

      • by JackieBrown ( 987087 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @07:51AM (#58813082)

        It teaches you, however, that capitalism and monopolies are evil, and why. And that is, of course, nit something Americans are said to ever accept. (Cue the downmods.)

        No true capitalist would waste a finite resource like a mod point on an Anonymous Coward post.

        • by dwpro ( 520418 )
          Of course they would. It's like the US equivalent of a superpac endorsing a candidate. Also, unfettered capitalism is the best. This post was endorsed by "Slashdotters Lauding Unadulterated Meritocracies"
      • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

        It teaches you that in capitalism, one person will end up with all the money (mostly by just waiting in jail) while the rest of society crumbles into bankrupcy.

    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      In the boardgamegeek site, it ranks 17,246 [boardgamegeek.com] out of 17,254 ranked board games [boardgamegeek.com], with an average rating of only 4.4 by more than 24K people.

      Hipster community hates on game that has sold 250+ million copies. News at 11.

      Funny how seemingly every well-known, mass-market game ranks in the 17000s. That says something, but it's not the message that you think that it is.

      • by jeremyp ( 130771 )

        It teaches you that most people aren't into board games and only buy them for occasions like Christmas. Monopoly is objectively a poor game. You know who's going to win fairly early on but it still takes ages to finish everybody else off.

        • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

          It teaches you that most people aren't into board games and only buy them for occasions like Christmas.

          Ah, the stereotypical ignorant masses counterargument.

          Monopoly is objectively a poor game.

          You missed this part: "Funny how seemingly every well-known, mass-market game ranks in the 17000s."

    • Here [imgur.com] is a good way of dealing with it.

    • Playing by the published rules make it near certain that once one player has enough of a monopoly they will then dominate the game and very quickly win ... ...no-one plays by these rules and all the rules they change/add make the game fairer and more balanced .... i.e. they take away the advantages of getting a monopoly which is the point of the game

      • I played a reworked version of Monopoly that was intended to be much more mathematically balanced. That is, getting property later came with advantages that balanced out the lost opportunities of getting property early, so it wasn't quite so "up to the die roll" to see who won. It split you into two groups, landlords and renters if I remember right, you chose which group you were at the start of the game.

        It was awful. 100x worse than Monopoly. Everyone's odds were so even that nobody could get an advantage

    • Monopoly isn't boring because it's long, it's boring because it imitates life. If I want to experience life, I go live it. Nobody would play SimCity if they had to do an EIR before they could place a zone, or if you couldn't place roads because of the three-assed salamander, or if you couldn't place wind turbines because of nimbyism.

      • I know what your sating but the three-ass salamander sounds like something from South Park.

        • I know what your sating but the three-ass salamander sounds like something from South Park.

          And now for something completely different, a salamander with three buttocks.

    • It's only boring if you don't follow all of the rules. If you follow the rules the average game lasts 45 minutes.
    • In the boardgamegeek site, it ranks 17,246 out of 17,254 ranked board games, with an average rating of only 4.4 by more than 24K people

      That is obviously because, no offense, the rating is from a group of shall we say, rule adherents.

      Most of the people I know who play Monopoly have many rule variations that make the game more fun, and quicker, to play.

      Also who said you have to play until the game reaches the defined end state? You know we can usually all see very quickly which way the wind is blowing and de

    • Monopoly is such a boring game. The game mechanics make plays very long, and the final part of the game is agonizing, because in most plays the winner is clear a long time before finishing the game.

      In my experience, the most common reason for the game playing long is because the people playing don't actually follow the rules - the biggest one being that if you land on a square and don't buy it, it should go up immediately for auction.

      The other one is the odd rule about putting fines on "free parking" and th

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24, 2019 @06:38AM (#58812884)

    They could have made the game even more modern and realistic.
    1. Every turn 2% of your money goes to the Bank to pay for your account.
    2. Random chance that another player hacks you and cleans your account out.
    3. Random chance the bank invests in crappy Credit Default Swaps and needs to be rescued, at your expense.
    4. Random chance the bank will refuse to mortgage or buy back improvements.
    5. It should come with an App that mines your mobile for private information, bonus points if it correctly finds your nudes, and blackmails you with it for monopoly money or it will send the information to the other players. If you pay, the other players will know you did.

    • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      Whoever modded this funny must have been busy blowing his lottery money in Tijuana for the last decade or two :D.

  • The old system taught kids that the banker steals from his clients and tries to get their money 24/7.

    That prepared the kids for jobs at Wells Fargo or one of the other crooks.

  • Teaching kids how to count and manage physical money is the wrong lesson these days. This is often typified here on /. Where people often talk about the benefits of cash because they can control their spending.

    How about we instead teach people to control spending without something physical, it's a far more important lesson for the future.

    But still flip the table tough.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @06:55AM (#58812920)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • For a board game pir8ed from a Quaker women where it was originally meant to teach about greed its already been twisted and turned around so nothing new here.

  • Monopoly teaches cut-throat business tactics when played by the rules.
    When played by the mom-rules, it teaches patience, planning,how rules can effect outcome, and how government regulation can be detrimental
  • by aepervius ( 535155 ) on Monday June 24, 2019 @08:42AM (#58813248)
    One player get half the board, and a load of money. The other get 1/4 of what the game says they need to get, except one which get the normal amount. Then you start the game, and teach the kids what they will see later in life : the have and have not , those who have nothing continue to lose, those who have will get richer quickly, and the few in the middle staying afloat.
  • Does the bank support apartheid? Does it open accounts in your name without permission? Does the bank charge hold deposits for a trip around the board, but process withdrawals immediately, then charge you for overdrafting? Is the bank closed one out of seven trips around the board? It seems like some real educational opportunities are being missed here.

  • Sure it teaches the wrong lessons. They completely left out bribing the housing inspectors who tie you up with red tape.

    They also completely left out bribing congressmen who drool at the prospect of bribe enrichment as they contemplate still more expensive housing regulations that may or may not pass.

  • "Is $thing bad?"

    Betteridge's law of headlines says "No"
    This is Slashdot where everything is bad, so that says "yes".
  • I went through a phase of being totally crazy about the game when I was little. At the time we lived in a cold climate with long snowbound winters, so the family played games that went on for days. I became the only eight-year-old Republican in town. But it’s time to update the old game, so I have some suggestions.

    1. Today’s Monopoly money is Bitcoin. After every dice throw on your turn, you have to multiply the total money you have by a positive or negative volatility factor to find its value i

  • Pretty sure half the reason is so the battery will die and you'll have to buy the game all over again. People need to stop buying stuff with batteries that don't need batteries.

  • Financial experts, however, remained on the fence about the game's educational value... "Hey, Monopoly cheaters. Here's a version that won't let you sneak extra hundreds from the bank or neglect to pay your taxes."

    See, exactly, the new Monopoly is totally not reflecting real life use of money.

  • The world is going to a cashless system regardless of people's affinity for handling cash. Better to teach the kids how to manage their money digitally. Besides, most of the previous generation has experience with games using "digital" currencies/resources (i.e. WoW, Eve, Elite, etc)
  • "Hey, Monopoly cheaters. Here's a version that won't let you sneak extra hundreds from the bank or neglect to pay your taxes."

    Yes, but it also won't allow you to trade properties (which a lot of people like to do) or strike side deals, which can make the game much more interesting and playable.

    This is another case of "Let's do it because we can, not because it makes anything better."

    Or maybe, "Let's use some whiz-bang tech even though there's no need to and makes the user experience worse."

  • Similar to how supermarkets and other businesses leverage their 'discount club' cards to allow discrete tracking of what precisely you purchase, 'cashless' will allow banks (and governments) to track every single penny you spend, down to the smallest item. Meanwhile it'll hurt poor people who don't have bank accounts, they'll have to have reloadable debit cards, and the banks will load those down with fees, making the poor even poorer. It'll also make everything more expensive, as retailers everywhere would
  • I always thought the only reason parents bought Monopoly games was to teach their kids how to count money!
  • The new technology may appeal to kids used to interacting with voice-activated digital assistants such as Amazon's Alexa, Apple's Siri or Microsoft's Cortana.

    You can hear someone at Google say "Ouch!"

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