'Retro Games' Announces A New Commodore 64

Long-time Slashdot reader cshamis tipped us off to this story in HotHardware: It is official, folks -- Retro Games is releasing a full-size retro reboot of the original Commodore 64, called TheC64, on December 5...

Of course, modern amenities abound for this reboot. TheC64 can connect to any modern TV via HDMI, to deliver "crisp 720p HD visuals" at 60Hz (USA) or 50Hz (Europe). It also comes with an updated joystick featuring 8 buttons, micro switches, and USB connectivity. It bears a passing resemblance to the original, but with additional bells and whistles. TheC64 will arrive with 64 games preinstalled, including titles such as California Games, Destroyer, Impossible Mission (1 and 2), Monty on the Run, Speedball 2, and many others... [P]layers will be able to add more games from a USB memory stick (not included).

The original Commodore 64 is widely considered the best-selling single-model PC of all time. Estimates have sales pegged at somewhere between 10-17 million units.

Re:Who asked for this?

[50000BTU_barbecue]

You seem to have no idea about the retro computing scene. There are thousands of die-hard fans with time and money to plow into this. It's a niche market, ever heard of them?

Re:

[Drethon]

Because this is just another ARM box. Geeks who grew up with the C64 are smart enough to run an emulator on their computers or on a Raspberry Pi.

Besides that, the nostalgia market for the C64 is probably weak right now. It would be different if it were 15 years ago when Vice City came out (with its retro C64 intro).

PC and Raspberry Pi don't have the C64 like keyboard which adds to the cool factor of this thing. My budget on the other hand is going, meh...

Re:

[KiloByte]

PC and Raspberry Pi don't have the C64 like keyboard which adds to the cool factor of this thing.

So buy a C64 keyboard lookalike, and attach it to a modern computer? Heck, I'm typing these words on a faux Model M. Obviously, the design of Model M was worlds better than C64, but the concept is the same: USB instead of AT DIN, etc. You could stuff an ARM board inside the keyboard's chassis, but as you need long cables going to a monitor/TV anyway, I don't get the point (but I'm no hardware hacker).

Re:

[Cmdln Daco]

They would have to sell an 'authentic' C64-like keyboard by mail order or on a website with a no return policy.

Anybody who knows the true C64 keyboard experience would expect a really terrible, barely usable keyboard that was designed for the hands of a nine year old. They would return the keyboard if it was up to modern standards because it would be so inauthentic.

And everybody else... well. they would return the thing because of it being... a terrible keyboard designed for the hands of a nine year old.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

You misspelled "Sinclair ZX81"

Re:

[porkchop_d_clown]

Given the generation of tech we're talking about, the effort and cost to re-create the keyboard is the same as the effort to re-create the whole machine...

Re:

[Andyman73]

I haven't seen these mentioned yet... but there is the C64 Reloaded (motherboard with decent f**king power supply that won't fry, but you have to provide original chips) and the Ultimate64 (a FPGA implementation capable of HDMI and NTSC/PAL switching on the fly and upgradable SID chip simulacrum.

Re:

[sglewis100]

Every now and then, you run into several million people who don't mind paying $$$ to obtain a product legally. Yes, I can load ten times as many games for free onto a $35 Pi. But I will likely buy this anyway. Same reason I subscribe to Netflix and YouTube TV. I could download all that stuff just as easily.

Re:Who asked for this?

[50000BTU_barbecue]

The really smart ones have a collection of real hardware.
Fear my geekness:
Two 1581 drives
Two 1764 RAM expansions boosted to 512k each
1541-II and 1571 drives
C64C, C128D, and SX-64
1351 mouse
Yeah, that's right, I'm legit.
(ha ha, I know I'm a loser)

Re: Who asked for this?

[sethmeisterg]

You're not a loser at all. There are things that can be done with original hardware that emulators just haven't implemented. So I, at least, applaud your collection.

Re:

[TheRealQuestor]

oh I don't know. Part of me remembers fondly sitting with my mates on the ship spending weeks programming a new game from the C64 magazine and then fo it to not work or crash or whatever just to toss it out and start anew when the new mag was delivered. Normally went a lot like this. We get the mag. We would take turns programming [copying the code from the mag] and that would take us about 2 to 3 weeks [we had nothing much else to do on the boat] and then spent the next weeks figuring out why the code woul

Re: Who asked for this?

[cormandy]

When I was 11 in the very early 1980s I typed in a small graphics program written in BASIC into an Apple II computer. It made spiral hi res patterns based on a couple user inputs and was very cool. I then went to save the program to the floppy disk only to discover I couldnâ(TM)t because I forgot to boot into DOS 3.3. No OS loaded, no saving to disk. I cried and cried.

Re:

[ncc74656]

I then went to save the program to the floppy disk only to discover I couldnâ(TM)t because I forgot to boot into DOS 3.3. No OS loaded, no saving to disk.

You could've saved to cassette, booted DOS, loaded from cassette, and saved to disk. Cassette I/O was an option all the way through to the IIe; it was only the IIc, IIGS, and IIc+ that didn't have it. With your mention of "the very early 1980s," I'm guessing you were probably using a II+.

I was wondering the same thing

[SuperKendall]

Bringing back an Amiga, or Atari ST would make some sense to me as there are more dedicated fanbases...

Just because the C64 was the best selling then, may not mean it has as much demand now as other systems.

Re:I was wondering the same thing

[jwhyche]

Just because the C64 was the best selling then, may not mean it has as much demand now as other systems.

Yeah, actually it does. The world wild Amiga sales where under 5 million compared to the C-64 almost 20 million units. That makes the Amiga a niche market of a niche market. Not a good place to be. There are far more retro C-64 gamers out there than there are Amiga and ST gamers put together.

Besides the two are a different culture it seems. Most C-64 gamers that I know are more than happy with a emulated hardware and games. All the retro Amiga people I know, the serous ones, don't do it unless it's on original hardware, or as close as they can get.

To quote an Amiga friend of mine, "What is the fucking point? Any fuck-tard can run a emulator." Or something like that.

Re: I was wondering the same thing

[SuperKendall]

See but thatâ(TM)s exactly what I mean, the Amiga guys are far more serious about it. If you released new Amiga hardware youâ(TM)d probably sell way more of it than releasing c64 hardware where most people are just fine using simulators to play some games... c64 owners just want the games, Amiga owners actually want to use the computer.

Re:

[KiloByte]

There's m68k support in the kernel even today. And whenever someone suggests dropping it, an angry mob with torches and pitchforks pops up.

Re:

[Wild_dog!]

"The world wild Amiga sales where under 5 million compared to the C-64 almost 20 million units"

just read an article where it seems likely that the total C-64 sales were conflated and were maybe more like 12.5 million based on serial numbers.

https://www.pagetable.com/?p=5... [pagetable.com]

Re:

[jwhyche]

12.5 million. That is still a reasonable number of units moved. More realistic too. I wonder if the 17+ million unit numbers include 128s. Those can run in C-64 mode.

Re:

[porkchop_d_clown]

There have been multiple attempts to "bring back" the Amiga. For example: https://hothardware.com/news/c... [hothardware.com]

Re:

[That YouTube Guy]

I would prefer an Atari 800 myself. Those were like the IBM typewriters of yore.

Re:

[lgw]

There were some good games on the C64. Fun times. Presumably you can load other games than the ones it comes with. Spelunker, Lode Runner, Archon, Mail Order Monsters, all great fun.

Doesn't look like it's for sale in the US though.

Re:

[PopeRatzo]

I had so much fun back in the day with Impossible Mission and Lode Runner, etc. that I might be persuaded to buy one of these.

Re:

[porkchop_d_clown]

Impossible Mission was the first time I'd ever heard software voice synthesis. I'm still amazed that they were able to generate that sound with the C=64's FM synth chip.

Re:

[PopeRatzo]

A couple of things that makes the voices on the C64 even a bigger deal than you might think. The SID was only a 3 channel subtractive synth. It was better because It could switch sources to each channel. The synthesized voices were done as a clever hack by changing a 4-bit volume register to move a DC offset in the original SID chip around. This would make a fake PCM waveform if you do it quick enough.

My earliest experiments with electronic music were with that SID. I would shortly thereafter start collect

Re:

[lazarus]

M.U.L.E.

Re:

[Cmdln Daco]

Games? I would think everybody would want one of these to run the GeosWorks Ensemble on. And one of those little modems that plugs on the back. I used to belong to a BBS that ran on a C64 with several 1541 drives plugged into it. It ran the CNet software.

Re:

[Cmdln Daco]

I am disappointed. My troll follower is boring. Can I apply for an upgrade somewhere?

Re:

[porkchop_d_clown]

He does seem to be fairly low quality. Apparently millennials can't even troll properly.

Re:

[LynnwoodRooster]

You have to say something that offends zhey "woke" senses. Then you'll get your very own fun troll!

Re:

[porkchop_d_clown]

That would be sweet.

Re:

[Misagon]

The Mini version of this (without keyboard) was first released in Europe before it was released in North America.
So I'm guessing that a full-size version will be coming to the US.

The differences with the TheC64 Mini was in the games selection and in that they ran at 60Hz instead of 50Hz. The screen refresh rate defines the speed of the game: most games of the era were programmed to run in sync with the video signal.

Re:

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Lode Runner is so much fun! I got a Lode Runner app but it's hard to control with the on-screen pad.

Of course there are new games developed recently like Sam's Journey that are pretty cool too. And there's the games from the end of the 64's reign that I never heard of from back then, like Mayhem in Monsterland.

Re:Who asked for this?

[clovis]

I had a C64 when they first came out. It was fun.
But if you wanted a C64 now and the retro experience, why wouldn't you just buy an original one? They're still around.
Might not even need to buy one. Ask your parents (grandparents?) if they have one in the attic.
My own C64 eventually floated off into the sea of nieces and nephews.

Games are crazy expensive

[rsilvergun]

on original disks or cart, I'm guessing because there weren't a lot of carts and the disks wear out. It can be a pain dealing with copy protection too. And old power supplies. Remember, these are 20-30 year old machines. The C64 power supplies are pretty notorious.

Yeah, you can buy a flashcart, but by the time you've done that plus maybe recapped the board and bought a new power supply you're in pretty deep.

Re:

[rsilvergun]

Oh, and you can tell I'm a yank because I said disk and not tape.

Re: Who asked for this?

[sethmeisterg]

Actually, I'd love to introduce my kids to the machine that was around when I was growing up. Nostalgia's much stronger than you think.

Re:

[corezz]

It is the best selling computer of all time so statistically there are bound to be significant market interest in a retro comeback.

I, for one, am VERY interested! And i am just some random dude on the shell of the formerly great /.

Re:Who asked for this? Already 2 others selling

[amigabill]

Well, there's enough market that a few other vendors are already selling several different C64 systems.

C64DTV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

C-One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

Ultimate 64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

C64 reloaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

TheC64 Mini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

They got alot of flack about TheC64 Mini not having a functional keyboard. Now they are making that functional keyboard version, so there must be demand for it, or there would not be this s

There are better options

[xack]

You can get modern Commodore 64 motherboard recreations and cases. There is plenty of videos [youtu.be] out there. The C64 is just a non-mini ‘mini’ console.

Re:

[msauve]

If you want to be retro in Jack Tramiel's world, you'd want a PET 2001, or perhaps a VIC-20.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

Could be good for someone looking for a reliable, easy to use system (plugs directly in to HDMI, decent joysticks don't cost a fortune on eBay etc.) Hopefully it still has BASIC, which would make it a great system for people to learn what coding in the 80s was like. Would be even better if you could write code in assembler on a PC and download it for debugging.

The 8 Bit Guy is in the process of making a "C64-like" system for that exact purpose, although the project has gone off the rails a bit with a daft c

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

W00t!

[Anonymous Coward]

LOAD "*",8,1

Re:

[Austerity Empowers]

Or if you're super cool, replace "LOAD" with L-Shift-O, makes a funny looking thing like L|- "*",8,1

Re:

[Waffle Iron]

Why do you keep ragging about the C64 keyboard?

As I remember it, it was pretty good for its day. It had real keys, unlike the membrane and chicklet keyboards of most of its competitors. It was no IBM model M, and maybe the Apple ][ keyboard was slightly better, but a C64 was a small fraction of the cost of those machines.

Re:

[_merlin]

I was going to say more or less the same thing. The C64 had a far better keyboard than the ZX Spectrum and a bunch of other low-cost home computers. There were better keyboards on the Apple II series, some of the MSX computers, etc. but the C64 was about the middle of the pack.

I want!

[blindseer]

This is cool. I never had a Commodore before but this is something I was certainly aware of and wanted as a kid.

I'd buy it if it was just a C64 looking keyboard. Having it work like a real C64 is just a bonus.

That makes me think that a neat feature for something like this is a keyboard mode. Put a USB-B port and a switch on the back, plug into any computer that takes a USB keyboard, flip switch, and party like it's 1989. That would be a nice bonus for people looking for a retro look on their desk, not n

Very little has been revealed

[Anonymous Coward]

Very little was revealed in the Retro Games announcement.

What is the processor? An updated version of the 6502? Can you add a Z80 CP/M board to it? Do USB flash drives take the place of cassettes? How do they work? Does it come with a telephone modem? What is the SDK for it? Does it still use memory mapped I/O?

Re:

[NerdENerd]

It will most probably be an Arm based Raspberry Pi like board with emulation like all the other minis.

Re:

[tlhIngan]

Very little was revealed in the Retro Games announcement.

What is the processor? An updated version of the 6502? Can you add a Z80 CP/M board to it? Do USB flash drives take the place of cassettes? How do they work? Does it come with a telephone modem? What is the SDK for it? Does it still use memory mapped I/O?

Given what we've seen with the C64 mini, it's likely an emulation. It's basically the C64 mini expanded with a keyboard and likely boots to BASIC rather than their menu, but you never know. And yes, t

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[tlhIngan]

There is or was a commercial product that was a recreation of the C64 hardware as a dedicated ASIC (using a design originally intended for PLAs) that fit it into a joystick with points on the motherboard that you could solder a PS/2 connector to if you wanted to add on a keyboard. (I think it also had the ability to add flash, not sure if it supported Serial 488.) It used the official ROMs.

So the designs for hardware recreations are out there, I wish they'd use them.

Was.

It was one of those "plug and play" t

Nobody's asking the magic question!

[porkchop_d_clown]

Does it come with BASIC? I mean, I hope so, a lot of the games were written in BASIC back then, but more importantly C64 BASIC was an incredible way to get kids into coding...

Re:

[Bonker]

I think that folks aren't going to really be happy with this unless it contains a transistor-perfect emulator or a very-close facsimilie thereof of the C64, complete with c64 BASIC.

I'm not terribly familiar with the state of c64 emulation. I'm in the apparent minority of people who grew up in that era that went on to become techies that did NOT own a c64 or Vic20. That said, I know that newer machines do have some reference-quality emulators out there. I can't imagine that the c64 would be terribly difficu

Re:

[NerdENerd]

BASIC "WAS" an incredible way to get kids into coding, but there are better options to BASIC these days.

Get some tattooed ladies and imitate John Wick

[mykepredko]

That's about all I can think that this C64 "reboot" is worth.

I'm amazed that a large, international crime syndicate still uses C64s to send out the text messages.

Let's see what Number 4 brings up - great series!

Demoscene?

[GuB-42]

The demoscene is still alive on the C64, with replacement parts for the the original hardware still being sold at parties. The "SID" audio chip almost defines the chip tune genre and is used by several well known musicians.

The C64 has a loyal following that goes well beyond video games. I hope they did the best they could to provide the most accurate emulation possible. Demoscene productions can be very tricky to emulate. And the analog circuitry for audio is hard to reproduce well.

My first two computers were Commodore

[WCMI92]

A VIC-20 back in 1981.

A Commodore 128 in 1985!

Then I went to a PC in 1990, an 80286 12 MHZ.

Re:

[blind biker]

Then I went to a PC in 1990, an 80286 12 MHZ.

And then you installed Civilization and played it so much you almost failed your first year in college?

'cause that would remind me of a certain guy I know....

What? No cartridge slot or slow floppy drive

[jfdavis668]

This has lost all the retro appeal.

So then itâ(TM)s not really a C64?

[bonedonut]

Gotta make it connect to the TV with one of those RF switching boxes.

Re:

[Andyman73]

or RCA cables. Those are cool. Maybe the old S-Video adaptor. Pity light pens don't work with modern (post-CRT/raster scan) monitors.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Who else became a fan of Commodore....

[oogoliegoogolie]

...because the early 1980s advertisements featured William Shatner?

How about Atari?

[Zobeid]

I was an Atari partisan in the 8-bit days, holding the line against those "commies". Someone do an Atari 800XL version of this and I might be tempted. Then again, today's Atari could produce a keyboard variant of their new VCS 400/800 console (after it finally ships!) and an emulation package, why not?

maybe not perfect

[sad_]

we don't know all the details, and it might not be perfect, but it is at least a very good step in the right direction and something most people would have wanted instead of the first iteration, which was much smaller and had a non-functional keyboard.

this one can even start in the well known blue basic ready? prompt. hdmi, better joystick and ability to add more games from USB.

even for most retro gamers this is perfect.

Retro Games?

[OoSync]

Isn't Retro Games the same company that failed (scammed?) to produce the Coleco Chameleon system after a well-funded Kickstarter?