It's Not 'X', It's 'Cross' -- the PlayStation Joypad Revelation That's Caused an Outrage (theguardian.com) 117
An anonymous reader shares a report: A fortnight ago, Twitter user @drip133 asked a seemingly innocent question above a photo of the joypad: "Do you say 'x' or 'cross' button?" There were hundreds of contradictory responses, which became increasingly furious as the week wore on. Some insisted that because the other buttons are named after shapes -- Triangle, Square and Circle -- logically, the "X" button must be called "Cross"; others pointed out that as 'X' was the common usage, this was the only acceptable pronunciation. [...] Then, in a shock move, Sony itself became involved. On 5 September, the official Twitter feed of PlayStation UK stated: "Triangle. Circle. Cross. Square. If Cross is called X (it's not), then what are you calling Circle?" The scrap is a rare event in the world of video games as console manufacturers usually name buttons after numbers, unambiguous letters of the alphabet or colours. The groundbreaking Nintendo Entertainment System pad, for example, went with A, B, while the SNES added X and Y (a configuration also used by Sega and Microsoft), and in this context, it's clear that "X" is X.
Years ago, in an interview with the now defunct video game website 1UP, Sony designer Teiyu Goto explained how the buttons came to be named: "We wanted something simple to remember, which is why we went with icons or symbols, and I came up with the triangle-circle-X-square combination immediately afterward. I gave each symbol a meaning and a colour. The triangle refers to viewpoint; I had it represent one's head or direction and made it green. Square refers to a piece of paper; I had it represent menus or documents and made it pink. The circle and X represent 'yes' or 'no' decision-making and I made them red and blue respectively." Sadly, this doesn't really help because in the quote he has characterised the "X" button with an "X" symbol and who knows whether that was actually him or the journalist who wrote the piece.
Years ago, in an interview with the now defunct video game website 1UP, Sony designer Teiyu Goto explained how the buttons came to be named: "We wanted something simple to remember, which is why we went with icons or symbols, and I came up with the triangle-circle-X-square combination immediately afterward. I gave each symbol a meaning and a colour. The triangle refers to viewpoint; I had it represent one's head or direction and made it green. Square refers to a piece of paper; I had it represent menus or documents and made it pink. The circle and X represent 'yes' or 'no' decision-making and I made them red and blue respectively." Sadly, this doesn't really help because in the quote he has characterised the "X" button with an "X" symbol and who knows whether that was actually him or the journalist who wrote the piece.
Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:5, Insightful)
Basic proof that a world society will never get along perfectly, we should stop trying to force it and embrace that we are all slightly different and need our own little groups, but should still have respect for each other in spite of our differences, and that our differences are what make us interesting.
Fixed that for you.
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The only way you isolationist types can have your way is if World War 3 happens, civilization is destroyed, and as a result there's no air travel, no internet, no telephone, and so on. Then I guess you can have your isolated little communities to lord it over in. But since nobody wants WW3 to happen, you're just going to have to change and evolve I gue
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The world could literally be ready to explode into a million pieces and some people will still argue over minutiae like this.
Indeed. People should learn to focus on things that matter. Such as how to pronounce "vi". It is amazing how many people get it wrong.
Things that matter (Score:2)
Indeed. People should learn to focus on things that matter.
...or the fact that the article is wrong about the button configuration used by Sega (button were changed to ABXY only during the Dreamcast era! It was ABC or ABCXYZ all the way before, you incults ! How get you get a job in life without knowing that !)
Re: Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:2)
Re: Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:2)
Persecute! Kill the heretic!
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Indeed. People should learn to focus on things that matter. Such as how to pronounce "vi". It is amazing how many people get it wrong.
It's pronounced "siks".
Re: Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:1)
Re: Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:2)
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You mean "six" as in:
i - eye
ii - eye eye
i - eye eye
iv - eye vee
v - vee
and so on? Had once a guy on Teamspeak playing eve online. After a while (to long a while) I asked him: "but you do know that this are roman numbers?", "Yes", he answered. "So why don't you say the number so that I don't have to count your eyes and vees? (and aXes as in eye ax)" ... not sure how it eneded, I think he continued to say "eye vee" etc.
Re: Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:2)
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This made slashdot? (Score:3)
Re:This made slashdot? (Score:5, Informative)
"News for nerds..." sums it up nicely.
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Originally Japanese (Score:5, Informative)
In Japanese, the symbols are called maru (circle) and batsu (cross/x), and are unambiguous.
The English wikipedia page for the batsu symbol is called "X mark [wikipedia.org]"...
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So, is it the "wrong" button?
Re:Originally Japanese (Score:5, Informative)
More like "no" (while the circle is "yes").
In Japanese versions of PS games e.g. the menu selections work like that, too -- with circle you go forward, and with "X" you go backward, leading to confusion [kotaku.com] if you play both Western and Japanese releases of the games.
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Also things like the form you fill in at the airport when you have a passport from a country that doesn't require a visa. They expect you to use a circle to mark the multiple choice responses.
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I never really understood why it was X to confirm in Western games. X is usually "cancel" or "not allowed", like crossing out a mistake you wrote. We usually use a tick to indicate an option we want, except for a few circumstances like voting.
Could have saved a lot of confusion there.
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In France, X is used instead of ticks in forms.
It can also represent a placeholder for the signature of someone who is unable to sign (ex: illiterates). Also a form of approval.
There is also the idea of "X marks the spot".
Also in Europe, road signs that are round with a red border mean that whatever is pictured inside is prohibited. If the inside is blank, so that the sign is just a red circle on a white background, it means that everything is forbidden (i.e. no vehicles).
More generally the red color typica
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On some systems a checkbox is marked with an X to mean yes. A solid square is perhaps better.
Except when genius designers write the label in the negative. We've all seen something like Don't suppress not outputting a log file [ ].
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But how else would you pay your respects at a funeral?
New controversy (Score:3)
Forget about the X=Cross controversy.... I submit that Circle=O
Discuss
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I'm also shocked that people would refer to the Delta button as "triangle". Doesn't anyone know their Greek letters anymore?
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Why did they change the meaning of the buttons?
X implies cancel to me, from the sound, and shape.
O implies "OK!" from the sound and shape! But well, I'm german.
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The cross doesn't have the same meaning in Japanese culture that it does in Christian cultures.
Roman numeral X (Score:2)
So literally, "red-ten-character"
The west also has X as a ten character, which it inherited from the Romans alongside V as a five character.
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Do we use it though, apart from clocks and twats?
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Yes, in numbered "bullet lists" or chapters in a book. As part of a name if one is the number X from the same (noble?) family with the same first name, e.g. Luise IVX. Apple in OS X and iPhone X. Eve Online to number planets and moons.
As they are valid identifiers they sometimes show up in source code, too.
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Plus, (Score:2)
That said, in English, it makes far more sense to call it X. For one, that's 45 degrees off of what we would normally call a cross, and 'x' is a little easier to say.
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They don't "call" it X, they call it Ju ... as Ju mans ten ... no idea what you were hunting here.
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'X' has no Japanese equivalent.
Super Nintendo has the A, B, X, and Y buttons -- Japanese use alphabets just fine, and can pronounce them, imitating the English pronunciation through their own mora (something close to "ekkusu" in this case).
The 'Z*' mora (Za, Zu, Ze, Zo) are as close as they get sound-wise.
The English pronunciation of "X" isn't the only one, though -- e.g. pronouncing it like in Spanish or Portuguese would map easier to Japanese mora.
For one, that's 45 degrees off of what we would normally call a cross
You might have a strong connection to the Christian symbol, but there are plenty of other uses [wikipedia.org], too.
'x' is a little easier to say.
No argument there, and that's what I call it in English
Tic-tac-toe (Score:1)
In tic-tac-toe, do you call the marks "x's and o's" (North American) or "noughts and crosses" (British)? ;)
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The game "tic-tac-toe" is played with X's and O's. The game "Noughts and Crosses" is played with (you guessed it) noughts and crosses...
Re: Tic-tac-toe (Score:2)
+1 smart arse
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I'm not sure, but it might be you wrote it wrong:
x1 smart ass, perhaps?
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The breaking eggs part...
We are now at that level with a X and a cross
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Is when people get "outraged" about whether to call a symbol a cross or an X. Hell, you could equally call it a +!
Can we please have less fake controversy? Thanks.
Nah I say we throw fuel of the internet trash fire instead and start a third group demanding it be referred to as the cruciform button.
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More likely a "multiply" as '+' is "addition".
"Times" button (Score:2)
I've hit the X button multiple "times". Perhaps they should have gone with "+" to be more like a cross.
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I don't Cross anything out with a "X" either, but a single line through it.
On a may its "X" marks the spot. a Cross is more like a "t" to me.
A cross has horiz / vert lines (Score:2, Informative)
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And St Patrick would like a word with you.
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Wrong. A cross can be either one.
When you cross something out, how often do you use horizontal and vertical lines? When you see "ped xing" do you call it "pedestrian ecksing" or "pedestrian crossing"?
Re: A cross has horiz / vert lines (Score:2)
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Strictly speaking the diagonal one (like on the Scottish flag) is a saltire.
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Depends wether I X them with a laser marker waiting for the Maverick to hit it, or if I'm talking about they crossing each other :P e.g. in Railroad Tycoon.
Oh, you meant something utterly different?
Simple... (Score:2)
I haven't felt this conflicted (Score:2)
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Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Do you say 'x' or 'cross' button?" There were hundreds of contradictory responses, which became increasingly furious as the week wore on.
Sorry, I mean, fucking seriously? It's a button. As long as everyone knows what everyone else is talking about ... don't be dicks about it. (Advice that can be applied, I believe, to many circumstances.)
Besides, there are *way* more important things going on in the world to be "furious" about -- like Vi vs. Emacs or "GIF" pronounced with a "G" or "J" to name a few. :-) [ Anyone care to add anything else ... ? ]
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
[ Anyone care to add anything else ... ? ]
Endianness, of course! High-order bit first or last?
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The high order bit never can be last, the high order byte can :P ....
ROFL
On the other hand ... who really knows if bits have an order in the true hardware?
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On the other hand ... who really knows if bits have an order in the true hardware?
The guys designing serial links really know the bit order. At least I hope they do!
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In a serial link endianess is irrelevant as it refers to multiple bytes and not a single bytes: but an interesting question, I never thought about in which order the bits go over a serial line. I always assumed it is high bit first.
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Who cares about endianess? It's automagically handled by the htonl, htons, ntohl and ntohs functions.
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Sorry, I mean, fucking seriously? It's a button.
You're missing the point. It's not about the button, but rather it's about the fact that people out there are wrong. Where would we be if we couldn't argue on the internet. Probably off procreating and contributing to the already problematic overpopulation of the world.
Sidenote: VI and it's JIF.
Oh My God this is so important, (Score:2)
I must know the answer NOW!
Depends on the orientation (Score:3)
After a little thought, I realized that I make the distinction based on the orientation.
If the lines are diagonal, like "X", I tend to think of it as an 'x' like the letter.
If the lines are vertical and horizontal, like "+", I tend to think of it as a 'cross' (or 'plus').
What are you calling the circle (Score:2)
Yeah that's a real brain stumper there.
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Yeah that's a real brain stumper there.
He's just pointing out that if you don't consider the circle to be a letter O, then you shouldn't treat the cross as a letter X either.
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I have always thought of the buttons as alphabetic X and O characters. It never occurred to me to think of them as circle and cross.
That is correct to me... but you may have a different interpretation that is equally valid.
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If you call the the X button cross, what do you call the Y button?
10 (Score:2)
Duh, everyone knows X is "10". When MacOS hit version 10, they labeled it "X" ( Unfortunately, it didn't stop the masses of dorks immediately incorrectly calling it "Mac" "Oh" "Ess" "ecks" They probably dropped the X because if 11 ever does come out it would be pretty stupid calling it "MacOS Ten 11").
So, obviously, the buttons on the NES are Delta, Zero, Ten, and Quadrilateral :)
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So, obviously, the buttons on the NES are Delta, Zero, Ten, and Quadrilateral :)
Did you just confuse the Playstation for the NES?
Silly people (Score:2)
These people are all crazy. Its obviously the "ten" button. Oh, wait; it's not an Apple product? Never mind.
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I though they used their thumb for 5, that way you can count from 0-9 on one hand or up to 99 using both.
It's neither, or either whatever makes it clear. (Score:2)
Anyway, you're all wrong. It's called "fork" [imgur.com].
A revelation from 1994 (Score:2)
It was called cross since the beginning.
Are people so young now that they were not of videogaming-age 15 years ago?
kyubey.jpg (Score:1)
others pointed out that as 'X' was the common usage, this was the only acceptable pronunciation
Not how it works. If an entire street pronounces something wrong, it's still wrong, truth is not decided by popular vote. Hell, tell a Chinese guy that the white people mispronouncing his name are right and he is wrong because of common usage and tell me how many decibels he reaches when he starts screaming in your face.
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If an entire street pronounces something wrong, it's still wrong,
But then, if an entire region pronounces something wrong, it's a dialect.
And if an entire nation of native speakers pronounces something wrong, it's actually correct, and you're wrong unless you have enough friends for your way to be a dialect.
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Greek to me (Score:1)
https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p... [ancient.eu]
Is this for real? (Score:2)
I totally missed the symbolism (Score:2)
I never realized that.
You can't make me (Score:2)
Nope! (Score:3)
Crosses are perpendicular...
This is a "Cross": +
This is an "ex": x
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The signs are "X" shaped, but the "crossing" in "railroad crossing" doesn't refer to the sign - it refers to the cross road itself, which (unless you are driving diagonally offroad), are definitely perpendicular crosses.
Spanish (Score:1)
Really?!? (Score:2)
What do you call a cross then? (Score:2)
If you call an 'X' a cross (It's not), then what do you call a cross?
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We could call them "rectangle", "three lines at 60 degree angles", "donut", and "intersecting lines" if you like. It will probably take people a second or two to work out what you're saying so not the best terms to use, but they're still descriptive terms.
Of course you could also call it "fo [technobuffalo.com]
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