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Montreal Law Firm Looks To Launch Class-Action Lawsuit Against Fortnite Developer (www.cbc.ca) 90

Posted by BeauHD from the too-fun-for-its-own-good dept.
Dave Knott writes: A Montreal legal firm has requested authorization to launch a class-action lawsuit against Epic Games, makers of the widely-popular video game Fortnite. The legal notice, filed on behalf of two minors, likens the effect of the game to cocaine, saying it releases the chemical dopamine to the brain of vulnerable young people who can become dependent on playing. Much of the suit is based on a 2015 Quebec Superior Court ruling that determined tobacco companies didn't warn their customers about the dangers of smoking. Jean-Philippe Caron, a lawyer at Calex, said the firm was contacted by several parents whose kids had become addicted to the game.

Last year, the World Health Organization classified addiction to video games as a disease. It defined the disorder as "a pattern of gaming behavior characterized by impaired control over gaming, increased priority given to gaming over other activities to the extent that gaming takes precedence over other interests and daily activities, and continuation or escalation of gaming despite the occurrence of negative consequences." According to Caron, Fortnite was designed by psychologists to make it more addictive. "They knew that their game was very attractive, yet they did not divulge the risks to the population. It's a little like tobacco."
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Montreal Law Firm Looks To Launch Class-Action Lawsuit Against Fortnite Developer More

Montreal Law Firm Looks To Launch Class-Action Lawsuit Against Fortnite Developer

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  • FTFY.

    Whether you like Fortnite or not, this lawsuit's premise is so broad it could cover anything from gyms ("runner's high," anyone?) to sporting events (can't have the excitement of a touchdown letting any of that pesky dopamine loose).

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Strill ( 6019874 )

      The difference is that in this case, they specifically hired psychologists to study addiction, and help them make it more addictive.

      • If that is true then these guys *should* be fucked. They won't though, they have money.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by lgw ( 121541 )

        "Addition" requires a chemical that can get into the brain and directly cause abnormal neural feedback loops to develop. Are we re-defining "addiction" now to snowflake sensibilities? Defining it to mean "something very appealing", to excuse the most basic inability to control oneself?

        I mean, fine, language changes, but if that is what "addictive" means now, then why should anyone care? We all must learn to restrict our consumption of appealing things: simple impulse control is the most basic thing everyo

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jm007 ( 746228 )
          I owe you mod points, Fine Sir; please comment more

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by imidan ( 559239 )

          Assuming you are really asking, a more appropriate term than "addiction" here may be "psychological dependence." Psychological dependence is a term that has been used to differentiate this kind of behavior from physical dependence, or more classically addiction (with features like chemical dependence that can kill you with withdrawal). But the terminology is confusing, partly because it keeps changing -- the current DSM doesn't even have a medical condition involving the word "addiction" -- it's now "substa

          • To build on your point, see for example: "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction Paperback" by Gabor Maté, MD

            And also: "The Globalization of Addiction: A Study in Poverty of the Spirit" by Bruce Alexander

            And also: "Therapeutic Lifestyle Change (TLC)":
            https://tlc.ku.edu/ [ku.edu]
            "We were never designed for the sedentary, indoor, sleep-deprived, socially-isolated, fast-food-laden, frenetic pace of modern life. (Stephen Ilardi, PhD)"

            So, "psychological dependence" (including to gaming)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rjr162 ( 69736 )

          I mean lets say I haven't eaten pizza in some time, then I do and I find myself eating it multiple days in a row.. Can I sue? Or I buy a cheap set of horse shoes, play and next thing I know I made some decent pits in my back yard and find myself playing every night.. Can I sue?

        • "Addition" requires a chemical that can get into the brain and directly cause abnormal neural feedback loops to develop. Are we re-defining "addiction" now to snowflake sensibilities?

          Are you counting dopamine? It's the natural addiction-chemical that we have evolved to make us have urges to repeat rewarding acts, which in nature are inherently productive (food, sex etc.) but our moderns society is full of unproductive(even harmful) acts that result in the large releases of dopamine.

          Wiki:

          Addiction is a brai

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Then they need to go after ad firms too, because ad agencys do the same thing to maximise the amount of people who will go out and buy the advertised products. As sleazy as it is, I feel very uncomfortable mixing legal liability (as far as advertising and products go) with something as vague and nebulous as psychology. This is very shaky ground at best and right in front is the slippery slope.
      • Still, it's the parents fault for not monitoring their children.. and I sure as hell would like to see some proof that they hiredthem to make the fame more addictive... And even so, no matter how addictive the game is, it's still the parents fault for letting the kids play for so many hours/spend so much money(if they bought all kind of nonsense)..

      • So? What do you think advertisers, sports leagues, serial entertainment producers, etc do? They want you to keep coming back so they research how to get you to act like you are addicted.

        Here is one defense: The only reason they seem addicted is that they are not seeing successes that give them the dopamine rush in real life. Society has marginalized boy aged 10-15 and have literally made it bad to be boys so boys don't get the dopamine rush from normal activity. It isn't our fault you treat boys like shit.

    • The "runner's high" is the biggest load of bullshit this side of the Mississip.
      At BEST you get a minute of two where you're kind of numb/disconnected and can plod along at the same pace without issue, then the wall hits again.
      No, the high doesn't come after you break though that wall. There's just more wall.

    • anything from gyms ("runner's high," anyone?)

      Ah, the famous extreme fitness of modern societies that will be the bane of them. ;)

    • "They made a lot of money, therefore they did something questionable and/or wrong, and we want a chunk of it"

  • Stupid parents (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BarbaraHudson ( 3785311 ) <barbara.jane.hud ... minus physicist> on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:37PM (#59271290) Journal
    Your kids are addicted to a game? And you're too afraid to cut their internet access because you'll have to interact with them and that will cut into your Facebook addiction time?

    Crappy parents. Can't say no, which harms their kids as much as game addiction.

    • They may be crappy parents, but if there’s a 3rd party involved, the parents get to sue them. Because one of the rules of modern society is that parents are never at fault. They may have been misled, of misinformed, or poorly educated, but it’s never their fault if they screw up.
    • See here [digitalsynopsis.com]

      It's kind of hard to keep a close eye on your kids when you work 2-3 jobs to put a roof over their heads. Hell, the kid in the comic is lucky, she had both her parents.
    • Either that or they are without freedom whatsoever. Look it is simple, parents nowadays mostly both work , that means there is a good chance that for some hours children are alone. And at some point children will HAVE to get more and more freedoms to become more adult. And yes that means no supervision at some point. Or what are you doing ? Putting them in cage until they are 17 year, 11 month and 364 days without any freedom whatsoever 100% supervision and watch over their shoulder, than at 18 you let the

      • I was very poorly supervised as a child and it was good in some ways and bad in others. Nobody bothered to teach me any discipline, because parenting is hard. But both of my parents had more time to spend with me, and didn't.

        And i see this continuing to happen today. Lots of people have no fucking business whatsoever having kids, but they have them anyway. If you lack the means to raise them with attention, or lack the interest to do so, then you will be a shit parent and should let someone else have kids i

  • Harrison Bergeron (Score:5, Funny)

    by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:43PM (#59271306) Homepage Journal

    Sorry, this video game is too good. You'll have to make it worse, perhaps hand it over to Ubisoft to rewrite it.

  • Disbar every single lawyer at that firm. They're all clearly insane, corrupt, or both.

    • After seeing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] , I retract my prior post.

      • Oooh, I triggered some fartnote kiddos!

      • That's an interesting video, thanks for sharing it.

        Hopefully those kids will retain their interest in dancing as they mature, and develop the physical conditioning necessary to impress others in more refined styles of movement. The 'loser' dance is just one of many in the game, and its hard to deny the appeal of being able to break out in some cool moves.

        The animated violence at the end of that clip is an example of why realistically graphic murder simulators should be treated with suspicion for having a co

  • Kind of gross no matter which side is right (Score:5, Interesting)

    by imidan ( 559239 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:48PM (#59271320)

    I want to say that suits like this are bullshit and that people should take responsibility for their lives and not waste all their time playing video games.

    At the same time, there are indications that some companies that make games are deliberately trying to make them psychologically addictive or habit-forming by using well-known techniques like operant conditioning with intermittent reward reinforcement... the same techniques used by big gambling corporations to keep vulnerable people sitting in casinos. And they're doing it in part by hiring psychologists to supervise these efforts.

    If the situation were really just that the game is so much fun that people play it a lot, that'd be one thing. But if the company is specifically designing the game to take advantage of a common weakness of the human psyche, then maybe there's some merit to a lawsuit. I don't know if Fortnite can be said to be doing that, but I guess that's up to the plaintiffs to try to prove.

    • most of these companies have multiple psychologists on file used to manipulate people (bet you're not laughing at that 'useless' psychology degree now). Epic brought Tencent in specifically for their expertise in monetizing free to play games.

      • If I was in Epic's shoes, I would definitely want to employ psychologists or at least consult them in order help maintain the balance between whimsical cartoonish violence and enough realism in order to keep the game interesting. As well as help conceive of new cosmetic items and activities in an ongoing basis that maintains the success of the game.

        Between 'free to play' and 'pay to win' is difficult waters to navigate successfully without sinking your company financially.

        The thing that bothers me slightly

    • Well, they sell skins, and they use peer pressure to get kids to buy/earn them (nobody wants to be a "default"). Not only is this a brilliant business plan, but now kids have some skin in the game (sorry for the pun).

    • But if the company is specifically designing the game to take advantage of a common weakness of the human psyche, then maybe there's some merit to a lawsuit. I don't know if Fortnite can be said to be doing that, but I guess that's up to the plaintiffs to try to prove.

      Having played Fortnite, it's whimsical and ever evolving on a 3 month cycle. There is much variety in the available models and amount of vanity items or 'skins' to personalize your preferred character.

      To complement the players that can buy tokens and getting vanity items directly, there are daily 'tasks' you can complete as well as more extensive campaigns in order to earn tokens or items.

      As far as I can tell the only reward for extensive playing is more exotic skins, as well as the ability to engage in hy

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by imidan ( 559239 )

        In short, its fun, and is constantly being refreshed. I think that's what makes it 'addictive'.

        Knowing what I know about Fortnite, I suspect you're right. I think that most of the truly habit-forming or behaviorally addictive games are on mobile. I've played a few games that let me play for a short time and then wanted me to pay money to skip some cooldown time. I deleted them, but I can certainly see how tempting many people might find it to push that button... it's only $1, after all. Or 50 funcredits. Or

    • Mod up, and expand the list of potential offenders. Advertising and commercials Cigarettes and alcohol (licensed and taxed by the state) Gamboling - all sorts Sexy cars - Bald, middle aged, buy our red sports car... Politicians and their promises (oh, they are allowed to lie - ok by law) Sports stars endorsing products (appeal by association to minors) So it is BS. The definition of addiction is someone you don't like, who engages in an activity almost as much as you do.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by imidan ( 559239 )

        The definition of addiction is someone you don't like, who engages in an activity almost as much as you do.

        Well, if that's the way you see it. Turns out the entire medical profession doesn't see it the same way. But I'm sure you have studied the problem more and better than they have, and that your comment isn't just a juvenile tantrum full of straw men and false equivalencies.

    • Have you ever even seen a Pinball machine in person? Bells and lights and all it takes is a steady stream of quarters to keep the reinforcement coming. And they're glorious.
    • Having the understanding of the subject that you do; (which most people don't - see "Robert Sapolsky Dopamine". I think the simple answer is an ESRB type rating. (Contains content that is psychologically reinforcing content), or something of the like.

      It is NOT news that some games have done these, 'random' loot box things, and 'free 2 play, but pay for perks'...

      Video gaming used to be a wonderful adventure into a realm of imagination. It still largely is and hopefully will continue to be. And if t

  • By the WHO definition, "breathing" is a "disorder" too. Just replaced "gaming" with "breathing". (Excess of breathing, for those who don't know, IS extremely dangerous).

    > "a pattern of breathing behavior characterized by impaired control over breathing, increased priority given to breathing over other activities to the extent that breathing takes precedence over other interests and daily activities, and continuation or escalation of breathing despite the occurrence of negative consequences."

    Also, thinkin

  • They must think smoking tobacco is a harmless pastime if they're comparing it to Fortnite. Greedy lawyers will say anything.

    • They must think smoking tobacco is a harmless pastime if they're comparing it to Fortnite. Greedy lawyers will say anything.

      Which is exactly why the losers in a frivolous lawsuit case should be made to pay all expenses for the defendant, in order to help reign in these ambulance chasers.

  • It's a video game. We've known these are addictive since Marios princess was in another castle.

    My father cut the cords on my NES and sent me outside to play.

    What's your excuse?

    • It's a video game. We've known these are addictive since Marios princess was in another castle.

      My father cut the cords on my NES and sent me outside to play.

      What's your excuse?

      I don't have a problem to excuse. But their excuse is likely fartherlessness.

  • I was addicted (Score:4)

    by renegade600 ( 204461 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:14PM (#59271400)

    I was addicted to Tradewars 2002 in my BBSing days. would stay up till midnight in order to get a jump on other players. Wonder if I can sue now :-)

    I guess lawyers need to find ways to pad their bank account and trying to find new ways of doing it. Lawsuits are getting ridicules.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Corbets ( 169101 )

      If I had mod points, I’d have given them for the trade wars reference. Oh, how I remember my first significant player kill, a bit of an online bully who we ganged up on... that game was goat.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • So... Epic should be selling Fortnite-branded potpourri that contains LSD? I think that's what you're saying....

      That was an enormous wall-o-text to say not very much. Even if you did use paragraphs. Not that you're wrong, but...

      "Brevity is a great charm of eloquence." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

    • I believe witnessing the game's effects in full force first-hand is very important. You say that you've never played it, so all your opinions and conclusions are based on third-party reporting, and you're using existing real-world concepts familiar to you to draw assumptions about how the game behaves and influences people. However, this is a multi-biliion product of one of the largest US game companies, one of the most successful and popular products of this kind ever. Any parallels you try to draw to othe

  • After existing for ~4000+ years, society still doesn't know how to substitute video games? Maybe they could have children socialize instead, perhaps train them or even have them learn nature stuff.

    Also, the currently accepted transition is a board game. Find a local board game group (or create one), and children would at least interact with others rather than being behind a dopamine generting video-game.

  • Sigh (Score:2)

    by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
    This is why we can't have nice things.
  • -70% credibility points
  • I think they should launch a class action lawsuit against WOMAN! They are addictive and can destroy your life if not treated with respect.

  • Lawyer 1: If this works, we should get about $100 million out of it, our two primary clients about $30k, and the millions of class members (players) a couple of free vanity dances.

    Lawyer 2: Sounds like a plan!

  • I tried Fortnite once. I was left thinking, is that it? It seemed like 20% of a game. Where was the other 80%?

    FPS use to come with a storyline mode and multiplayer mode. The multiplayer gave lots of maps and several different game types from capture the flag to last man standing to domination and more.

    The really good ones were even mod-able so other people could build entirely new games out of it.

    Fuck fortnite.

    • Oh come on. Building structures to act as kill zones or traps for the unsuspecting is pretty entertaining. The challenge is what you can make of it by altering the playing field and being devious. Coming up with new creative ways to send someone to their doom is part of the fun.

      At least that's how an old player like me deals with these twitchy little bastards who have endless amounts of time to build muscle memory but haven't learned yet to look up.

      It isn't even trying to be like a typical FPS game. This is

    • Which Fortnite did you play?

      Fortnite Save the World

      or

      Fortnite Battle Royale?

      There are two quite different games, apparently one of them (the latter) is free to play?

  • This has gone too far. It's tge responsibility of the parents. Jezus christ, blaming a computergame for what happened, parents these days put the blame on everything but themselves, and the lawyers, well they see a big company with a lot of money, so they'll get a lot of money if they win.. why go after fortnite when there gave been so many other games that have been much worse at getting people hooked, oh ofcoyrse, those companies weren't as rich as Epic... I sure hope as hell the lawyers/minors loose, go
  • “A Montreal legal firm has requested authorization to launch a class-action lawsuit against Epic Games, makers of the widely-popular video game Fortnite. The legal notice, filed on behalf of two minors, likens the effect of the game to cocaine”

    What responcibility do the parents bare in relation to letting their kids play video games twenty four hours a day.
  • Because that would be bad for society.
  • Ok, So, if an activity triggers dopamine release in the brains of spectators/participants, then it's "a little like tobacco"? I suggest the lawyers take a stab at the more obvious low hanging fruit.

    Like everything anyone is willing to do without being paid to do it...

    And, while they're at it, how about crushing the advertising industry? If any one industry is at fault in this context, it's them.
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