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Microsoft Says 'Nobody's Asking For VR' -- Sony and Fans Fire Back (venturebeat.com) 154

Posted by msmash from the street-fights dept.
In an interview, Xbox chief Phil Spencer downplayed VR as an "isolating" experience, saying that "nobody's asking for VR" -- at least, from his customer base. From a report: He said, "the vast majority of our customers know if they want a VR experience, there's places to go get those" he explained, though he also said "nobody's selling millions and millions" of VR headsets. For these reasons, the company isn't planning to support VR on its next Xbox console, codenamed Project Scarlett. [...] Spencer's take apparently didn't sit well with Sony's Shuhei Yoshida, who led the company's worldwide studios through much of the growth of PlayStation VR -- a headset that has, in fact, sold well over 4 million units. This morning, Yoshida tweeted that "we oftentimes work hard to make things that no customers are asking for," a fairly gentle retort that recalls the supposed quote from car pioneer Henry Ford, "if I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."
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Microsoft Says 'Nobody's Asking For VR' -- Sony and Fans Fire Back More

Microsoft Says 'Nobody's Asking For VR' -- Sony and Fans Fire Back

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  • Here we go again. Microsoft misses another train (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tonymercmobily ( 658708 ) on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @05:41PM (#59459550) Homepage Journal

    I thought today's Microsoft was more enlightened than Gates' or Ballmer's.
    Instead, history is repeating itself. Microsoft doesn't exist on mobile phones. Bing has a 2.55% market share. The list then can go on: Web mail (does anybody still use Hotmail?), tablets, smart watches,

    I guess "VR" will be just another item to the list of "missed opportunities" which will either be left alone, or will take billions and billions to catch up with (Xbox, Bing).

    Oh well.

    • VR is dead. AR is the future, and that is what Microsoft is working on.

      • "VR is dead. AR is the future" -- says who?

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • You need to walk before you can run (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @06:02PM (#59459688)

        VR is dead. AR is the future

        I agree but to have a really good AR platform, it needs to be able to provide a strong VR subset.

        So only working on AR with a handful of users is a really bad idea compared to Sony working on VR and working up towards AR as well, with a strong base of VR supported applications for it also.

        • My guess is that AR applications and VR applications are too different. But I am not an expert in either. I do know that VR is dead (again).

          • My guess is that AR applications and VR applications are too different. But I am not an expert in either. I do know that VR is dead (again).

            Like 3D movies, they just keep pushing them HARD, but no one cares. Just let me see the 2d fucking screen and watch the movie already.

          • I do know that VR is dead (again).

            Ah, yes. One of those dead things that just keeps growing. [statista.com]
            VR isn't mainstream, for sure. But it's hardly dead. There is generational improvement, and more and more games are supporting it. I'm up to 95 VR games in my Steam library. A few more that aren't on Steam.

        • Subset is a good word. VR = AR in a dark room.

      • If you look long term, and I mean REALLY long term, there are two.

        The BIGGER future is an AR device much like Google Glass that helps you interact with the world. Unobtrusive, always present, augmenting everything. You don't have to look down at your phone for maps, or messages, or games. Killer apps in every field; medicine apps to look at your body, social apps that let you connect to those around you, musicians can have their music before their eyes without turning pages, mechanics can look at a car a

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by godrik ( 1287354 )

          Hololens is Microsoft's attempt at AR, but they need to take $3000 off the price and redesign it by hiring Steve Job's ghost. Right now it's more like a mix of a welding mask and safety goggles that everybody in shop class hopes they aren't stuck with.

          AR is hard and it is clearly not ready for mass market. Right now, it is more of a professional tool. And for a professional tool, a $4000 piece of equipment is fine.

          Think of a tool used by house builders, your inspector could have a AR headset that helps making sure progress is at an appropriate rate and that nothing is forgotten in the process. Cost of misconstruction is about 20% of construction cost. A $4000 equipment that prevents it is a drop in the bucket.

          That could also be useful for sales. So that

      • VR works as a stationary platform and lousy in a mobile (moving) type environment outside a closed contained and controlled space.

        AR works as a mobile type and is shit in a stationary or fixed environment. AR has tremendous potential if it can be used anywhere without power or connection limitations. Right now what you've got is tethered AR and I don't see any future there.

        AR has far more potential outside games. VR is more immersive and probably better suited towards games.

        Whether or not AR will excel bett

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by samdu ( 114873 )

        AR can't replace VR for certain purposes and vice versa. VR is for immersive experiences that take the user completely to a new location. AR is for adding elements to the user's existing location. I don't want to shoot at aliens popping up from behind my couch. I want to shoot at aliens on an alien planet to which I've been virtually been transported. By the same token, if I'm fixing a sink, I don't need to be cut off from the sink, I need the solution overlaid over top of the sink. AR and VR are not compet

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ranbot ( 2648297 )

      I guess "VR" will be just another item to the list of "missed opportunities"...

      Related, Microsoft owns Minecraft, which seems perfect for VR and has a dedicated active fanbase already. Further, Microsoft does think Minecraft is well-suited to AR (See Minecraft Earth: https://www.minecraft.net/en-u... [minecraft.net] which looks great!), but won't pursue VR for Minecraft. Definitely seems like a missed opportunity.

      Heck, combine forces with Valve and make Xbox support Index, and get two killer VR apps: Minecraft for the kids; and HL: Alyx for the parents, something for all generations. And even if user

      • but won't pursue VR for Minecraft

        Erm.
        Minecraft supports WMR for VR, and Oculus.
        Sadly- we Steam/OpenVR users are unsupported :(
        However- there is a version of Minecraft Java Edition that works with our gear

    • When the Xbox One X was announced (as Project Scorpio) they were bringing out Todd Howard from Bethesda to talk about Fallout 4 VR saying that it needed about the power of the X1X to be a good experience, and there were rumors that MS might align with PC VR headset makers.

      https://www.roadtovr.com/fallo... [roadtovr.com]

      Then they suddenly stopped all that talk and decided AR was the future and forgot all about games.

  • Because 512k should be enough for everyone (Score:4, Funny)

    by sandbagger ( 654585 ) on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @05:44PM (#59459582)

    Surely that's obvious.

  • Lifted from Wikipedia: "While official sales numbers haven't been released, according to IDC the Oculus Go and Xiaomi Mi VR had sold nearly a quarter million units combined during the third quarter 2018" IDC.com [idc.com], "and in January 2019 market analysis firm SuperData estimated that over a million Oculus Go units had been sold since the device's launch." Variety [variety.com]

    I suspect someone like Valve has pretty good numbers on the install base of PC gamers with VR, and especially interesting would be that in proportion

  • When I can get a decent VR headset for a hundred bucks, I'll be all about it. Until then, it's just too expensive for something I'll only use with the handful of titles I'm interested in. Maybe (OK, definitely) I'm cheap, but since the majority of households can't come up with $400 in an emergency, asking them to come up with $400 for a VR headset is probably unrealistic.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Strill ( 6019874 )

      I took all the money I was going to spend on an exercise machine, and bought a VR headset and Beat Saber. It was a far better investment.

    • When I can get a decent VR headset for a hundred bucks, I'll be all about it.

      I can't get a decent jacket or a good pair of work boots for less than a hundred bucks.

      Two AAA games would run for around $100 as well, maybe buying a VR headset means you have a budget for two less games in your library? If that's the calculus then it seems like a bad idea for game publishers to go after VR even if it were only $100. Now think that it's more like $600 or about 6 game titles.

      I'm cheap, but since the majority of households can't come up with $400 in an emergency, asking them to come up with $400 for a VR headset is probably unrealistic.

      People buy all kinds of shit on credit that they can't afford. It's one of the big social problems of our time. But l

    • You mean less than the cost of the first GPU? Yeah I agree when 3Dfx released the Voodoo that was the end of the industry. No one bought 3D accelerators right? (hint, a mid to high end VR headset costs less than the 3Dfx Voodoo did).

      • a mid to high end VR headset costs less than the 3Dfx Voodoo did

        You could get a Voodoo card under $200. I think I paid about $150 for mine. Even given inflation, a decent VR headset still costs more. I had a voodoo, a voodoo 2, a powervr, and then a permedia 2. The permedia card was $180, and that was by far the most I spent on any GPU in that era.

      • Actually no one did buy 3D accelerators until costs came down. It was one hell of a tiny niche made worse by sudden onset competition meaning consumers had to back a horse to buy in, and history always shows they'd rather wait it out. And wait it out they did. Pretty much everyone I knew bought in when the Voodoo2 was being fire-saled at $150 since it was now cheap enough and the competitors had mostly died off. Eventually every supermarket special gaming PC had a TNT2 in it which also marked the widescale

        • Funny, the best selling games in VR are the ones that have been patched for it. Skyrim, Fallout 4, The Forest, L.A. Noire. Serious Sam. Subnautica. There are a lot of companies realizing that they can breath new life into their older titles just by giving the option to play it in VR. Now admittedly, for some games, this can be a huge amount of work, but there are many which have quickly added vr support, and gotten a few thousand more sales because of it.

          It's an industry in it's inception.

  • People want GOOD VR.

    1. Price
    2. Convenience (small form factor, easy to put on and remove, no base stations required, mobility, ease of use and wearable)
    3. Features (visual quality, sound quality, tracking quality, games available, battery life,compatibility)

    We're getting there, especially with new new half-life game (a landmark step forward)

  • I am guessing more than 4 million 3D TVs were sold... and where are we with them now ?
    Curved screen TVs will go the same way.
    Smarts TVs, software is being abandoned years before the TV dies, better off getting a dumb TV and adding smarts to it yourself.

    Nothing wrong with talking up your products, but yeah this boarders on BS.

    • Nothing wrong with talking up your products, but yeah this boarders on BS.

      What borders on bullshit? The profit companies are making on *content* for VR? The problem with your logic is it works just as well to make your case as it works against you.

    • Ironically, vr may be the thing that brings back 3d movies to the home consumer. Unlike every other form of display, having 2 screens showing you each perspective doesn't have the trade offs in brightness or comfort. Hell, there are even programs that allow you to watch the movie in a virtual theater with all of your friends. It's still in its infancy, but it is a real possibility.

  • Windows MR works with SteamVR now, and with the Samsung Odyssey plus on sale everywhere for 230 bux, people are buying it like crazy.
    Its cheaper because you dont need external sensors, but its also not as accurate, but accurate enough for most pc games.

    I decided to pick one up at this price, and Its rather good, not perfect, But for a 200 dollar headset, I don't expect it to match my sync gaming monitor.

    Right now, Great for watching Blueray 3d movies, 3D 360 Content on many video providers, make sure you h

    • I got the regular Odyssey last year for about $350 I think, at the time that was a good price but the pricing on the + does make me jealous since it's a bit better on screen door effect and cheaper too.

      While there aren't huge AAA games for it, there is already more content than I have time to play with it, and as you say, you can also watch movies (3d or otherwise) with it, chat in VR and what not.

      Definitely the biggest benefit though is in sims, it's really a perfect fit since you're sitting in a cockpit o

  • Console Gaming is Isolating (Score:3)

    by Luthair ( 847766 ) on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @06:32PM (#59459898)
    There are effectively zero games on recent consoles (or PCs for that matter) which are made for side-by-side play, combine that with Microsoft (joined by Sony) requiring a subscription fee for online access....

    • Coop? Ultimate Alliance 3, Diablo III, Battlefront 2? These are just some of the big AAA ones I could think of.

      Over Cooked, Tricky Towers, Duck Game, Smash Brothers...

      Not everything was a Rescue Rangers, Double Dragon, Battle Toads back in the 90s. We all got spoiled by the GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Time Splitters, etc. generation, that's what happened, I think.

  • Look, I went to all these VR tech rollouts and arcades to try them, did the 3D and 4D film VR things, and ...

    I'm just not interested.

    • Thanks for your insight. Please provide us a complete list of all the things you're not interested in so that we may streamline our content for you in the future.

      In the mean time, you're just one crappy little rounding error in the gaming world. There are plenty of other people who are very much interested.

  • Just thought of something that VR actually would be useful for, however.

    1. Engine repair how to videos.

    2. Plumbing repair how to videos.

    3. Computer repair how to videos.

    4. Sims 5 VR: where you're in a 3D environment with your Sims, and your movements are your sims movements, and you have a glove-driven menu to do things, and can see their plumbobs and action choices.

    • Why did you title your post "good VR game" and then proceed to almost bore me to death? No thanks I'll stick with actual good games.

    • I've done all of those things with plain ol' 2D youtube videos by people with good teaching skills and years of experience with the subject matter.

      No need for VR for that either.

  • When they'll fit-out all the cows with VR gear.

    https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The VR hardware cost too much when it was $600, considering that you still could only play a limited selection of games made for that system.

    If they had a lower-res setup for $200 that worked with ALL games (DirectX put in a 3D mode years ago, didn't they?) as well as movies on the PC, I'd strongly consider it.

    I looked a couple days ago at the new Steam VR setup, it's $1000... -and that ain't happening.

    • As I posted above, the Samsung Odyssey+ is about $200 [amazon.com]. The Index is certainly a bit nicer but also more difficult to set up with the lighthouses.

      While you can't officially turn on VR for any random game, many do have 3rd party mods or hacks for VR modes. All the old id games from Wolfenstein to the new Doom have VR modes one way or another. Obviously many games do have official support too (certainly sims like Project Cars, Dirt Rally, DCS etc) and there are pleny of VR specific titles as well.

      You can also

  • I really want to love it, but I only play a single game, and only at parties.

  • Sony (Score:2)

    by Chas ( 5144 )

    Okay, a bunch of Japanese hentai addicts want to fap in private.
    NOBODY CARES.

    While VR is an interesting technology, ultimately, until there's an actual "killer app" for it, and the tech is several generations MORE advanced than it is now?
    It's going noplace.

    And yes, it's a vicious cycle.
    Insufficient demand means insufficient funding.
    Insufficient funding means insufficient development time, depth and breadth.
    Insufficient development time means insufficient maintenance of interest.
    Insufficient maintenance of i

  • Phil Spencer said it's an isolated experience, and that's not what they want.. But to me and a lot of other people console gaming IS an isolated experience, it's not like we're sitting in front of the tv with the whole family playing red dead redemption 2... Most gamers are playing the games all by their selves, so how is this different with VR? VR is just a completely different way of gaming, it's a completely different experience, it can't even be compared to sitting on the couch with your controller and

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