Loot Boxes Push Kids Into Gambling, Says England's NHS Mental Health Director (pcgamer.com) 136
Claire Murdoch, mental health director of England's National Health Service (NHS), has reignited the loot box controversy with a report claiming they push young people into "under the radar" gambling. PC Gamer reports: "Frankly no company should be setting kids up for addiction by teaching them to gamble on the content of these loot boxes", she said. "No firm should sell to children loot box games with this element of chance, so yes those sales should end." Loot boxes aren't currently regulated by England's Gambling Commission because their contents can't be monetized. The report calls this a "loophole" because, "Despite this, third party websites selling gaming accounts and rare items are commonplace and easy to find on places such as eBay across the internet."
Murdoch called on game publishers to ban games whose loot boxes encourage children to gamble, as well as to introduce spending limits, tell players the odds of receiving each item before they buy a loot box, and "Support parents by increasing their awareness on the risks of in-game spending." As for what those risks are, the report says, "Investigations have found numerous cases of children spending money without their parents' knowledge, including a 16-year-old paying 2,000 British Pounds on a basketball game and a 15-year-old losing 1,000 British Pounds in a shooting game."
Murdoch called on game publishers to ban games whose loot boxes encourage children to gamble, as well as to introduce spending limits, tell players the odds of receiving each item before they buy a loot box, and "Support parents by increasing their awareness on the risks of in-game spending." As for what those risks are, the report says, "Investigations have found numerous cases of children spending money without their parents' knowledge, including a 16-year-old paying 2,000 British Pounds on a basketball game and a 15-year-old losing 1,000 British Pounds in a shooting game."
f2p (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: f2p (Score:2)
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World of Warcraft mastered the art of being addictive instead of fun ages ago.
Your brain doesn't have an addictive response to something that isn't fun. I think the key difference is that you (and I) don't understand what other people actually find fun about it.
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World of Warcraft mastered the art of being addictive instead of fun ages ago.
Your brain doesn't have an addictive response to something that isn't fun. I think the key difference is that you (and I) don't understand what other people actually find fun about it.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Something can become a habit and feel like it "needs to be done", even if you don't have fun doing it, or even if you used to find it fun but don't anymore.
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World of Warcraft mastered the art of being addictive instead of fun ages ago.
Your brain doesn't have an addictive response to something that isn't fun. I think the key difference is that you (and I) don't understand what other people actually find fun about it.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Something can become a habit and feel like it "needs to be done", even if you don't have fun doing it, or even if you used to find it fun but don't anymore.
Yep, just walk into any casino and go to the slots area with the people who just camp out on a set of machines, pressing a button until they run out of money.
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I still pay for a subscription. I play about 8 hours a week on average.
I like experiencing the content and story. I am a sandbox player. I don't interact with anyone else.
I also don't buy anything other than the subscription. I even am sometimes (couple times a year) able to buy free game time with in game gold and that saves me money in the real world.
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> Free to play turned out to be an incredibly effective way to ruin gaming.
"basketball game" and "shooting game" are not free to play. People paid 60 bucks for them.
> And it doesn't even need to be addictive for most players, just to the "whales:"
If you know that term, you also know the talk about increasing whale and dolphin population in game. They are not targeting just gambling addicts. Kids without developed understanding of money value are also lucrative targets.
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Re: f2p (Score:4, Insightful)
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A habit can't form without first an addiction. Again you fail to see the reward system psychologically at play here. People of sound mind (that excludes those predisposed to repetition such as extreme horders) can only form an addiction to something which triggers a reward sensation in their brain. From there you can form a habit. But the fundamental underpinning is that you can't get addicted to something you don't enjoy as your body would not release endorphins.
You can however stop enjoying something you'
Re: f2p (Score:2)
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A game had a free to play weekend. I bought it afterwards. I'm not good at it. I rage quit a lot. I would not describe it as fun, more like something to do that's better that the alternatives. Loot boxes are random and very grindy. I do not like grinding. I find myself doing it.
This is not fun. Your mileage may vary.
I am experiencing issues with gameplay. I continue to find more aggravating steps to resolve. I keep trying them.
Explain this in context with your comment. Does this sound fun?
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I do not like grinding. I find myself doing it.
You do like it or you wouldn't do it. You're trying to outsmart your brain, but your brain and body show something else. Humans form an addictive pattern through the release of dopamine. This is something that is released when your brain enjoys something. Regardless of how consciously you think you're not having fun, you are. Or at least you were at first.
Dopamine is possible to be triggered by the addiction response itself. I.e. it is released the first time in response to pleasure, but it can be continued
Re: f2p (Score:2)
Nothing new here... (Score:2, Interesting)
I completely agree that Lootboxes are a bad thing, and will not shed a tear to see them gone,, but a question for lawmakers, how is this any different from card trading games, dating all the way back to baseball cards?
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Measure the part the company is doing separately from the part the players are doing themselves, and you'll have no trouble finding the difference.
Re:Nothing new here... (Score:5, Informative)
There's a few key differences and there's a few key similarities.
There's also the matter that there's a few different ways lootboxes are done, in some systems the loot can be resold, in others it cannot. In some cases the loot affects gameplay (pay to win/pay to advance) and in others it doesn't (cosmetics only). And these categories really all need separate consideration.
But the subtext of your question is why should lawmakers go after them when we've had baseball cards for years, and nobody complained about those, right?
Baseball cards, overall, might be mechanically very similar. And although they share many characteristics with loot boxes the bottom line is literally that they simply never became a problem. The answer was right in the question. Lawmakers ignored them because they never became a problem. There was never an uprising of voter angst over them. Perhaps the baseball card system just wasn't addictive enough.
There are more obstacles to trading card purchases after all. I mean, you had to go to the actual store - that's a barrier. You had to have cash on you - another barrier. You had to part with the cash to get the cards -- a much higher psychological barrier than clicking 'open chest' in a video game, etc. There were fewer dopamine hits too -- the cards didn't do anything; your friends didn't see you wearing them for weeks on end; they didn't help you win.
Perhaps all that together was enough to cross a threshold; from "yep its technically gambling, but its not really causing any actual problems or bothering anyone" to "we need to ban lootboxes because its an actual problem"
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> There's also the matter that there's a few different ways lootboxes are done,
True
> And these categories really all need separate consideration.
No. Lootboxes should be banned. No matter what.
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That's a slippery slope.
There are quite a few games which offer lootboxes containing items more valuable than if you bought them directly. Couple examples are Path of Exile (mystery boxes) and World of Tanks (Holiday Ops boxes).
Path of Exile stands out because it offers 100% cosmetic items, nothing P2W, nothing affecting in-game performance.
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> Path of Exile stands out because it offers 99% cosmetic items, nothing affecting in-game performance.
FTFY.
I've been playing since the Open Beta, and GGG does a far great job at F2P then most companies, but let's be honest here -- there ARE non-cosmetic items for MTX:
* Currency stash tab
* Regular stash tabs
* Premium stash tabs
* Fragment stash tab
* Unique stash tab
* Card (divination) stash tab
* Quad stash tab
* Delve (fossil) stash tab
* Map stash tab
* Essence stash tab
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None of which give any advantage in either PvP or PvE.
They allow you to hold more stuff and organize said stuff better, and one could play just as well without them.
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I'm not arguing that some loot boxes are ok, only that they need separate consideration/arguments because they are different.
Several comments in this thread talk about how trading cards are different from trading cards because you can trade cards after opening them, you can resell them, or buy the one you want on the 2ndary market. But that's true for SOME lootbox systems too: some lootbox systems do allow trading, and reselling. So the argument that they are different from cards in that regard falls apart.
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Agree - and to add that once obtained, baseball cards were freely exchangeable with your friends. You weren't ever unable to swap out that flunky card you already had three of - sure, you might have to give away more than you wanted, but you could offload it if you really wanted. What's more, you could swap that card with someone who (as yet) had never seen baseball cards, or otherwise hadn't spent any money on them or the paraphernalia than went with them.
As for banning loot boxes - if you've got to pay to
Your kids? Your problem (Score:2)
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"But how exactly are these children paying for these purchases?"
That really seems entirely beside the point.
"This seems like a problem that better parenting could solve"
Does it? Because you can name a bunch of other societal issues that have been solved just leaving it to "better parenting" alone, with no other measures taken? Teen Vaping, Smoking, Fentanyl -- better parenting could solve all that. Bullying -- better parenting should take care of that too. How do we even have problems at all... we've known about 'better parenting' for generations!?! It doesn't seem to be working, maybe we just need more "better parenting" to sol
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It ain't so simple.
Many systems require the user to enter a credit card number to function. And "offer" or impose an option to buy "easily" stuff in way parents do not even suspect. A very young child can so buy a game or a movie just by clicking on a picture. The system is set this way by default and you have to chase down options hidden in obscure menus to deactivate it.
I know a couple who had this surprise. The mother was there watching her kid in front of the "smart" TV. Then her phone rang: She had rec
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The speed of addictive interaction. There's a reason casinos are addictive, and there's a reason mobile f2p games are modeled directly on those casinos.
Re:Nothing new here... (Score:5, Interesting)
Being addicted to lootboxes and trading cards is nothing alike.
Being addicted to trading cards is like being addicted to collecting bluray movies, physical books, stamps, coins, pins etc.
These are consumer items but you can keep them for a very long time and it is under your control to keep them for a long time since they are physical.
Things like beer, poker machines, playing at the casinos, lootboxes are nothing but consumable items which have zero worth after you have paid and used it. They are one use only and you cant even sell it afterwards.
Baseball tradings cards are always limited because they have to pay money to the baseball player to put him there and the baseball player doesnt play forever. Buying baseball cards is like supporting the baseball players.
Lootboxes are only disgusting. If people dont buy the microtransactions the servers get shutdown and the playerbse loses everything. Nothing is limited since the dev/publishers can make as many of something as they want and they dont have to pay anyone for it. Trading cards can be legally sold. you will make some, all or even a lot of money from it. If you get caught selling your digital acount full of microtranactions you will get banned and lose everything.
So no, they are nothing alike. Lootboxes give you nothing of value. It is a money sink only and should be banned with heavy heavy punishment to developers and publishers for selling gambling to kids.
Also you cant cheat with baseball cards, whatever is in the packet is determined at the factory. It has no relevance to who the buyer is. The drop rate is the same for everybody. A video game can be heinous and be programmed to give better lootbox drops to different players depending on how much/little theyve spent and how frequently/infrequently theyve spent.
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A video game can be heinous and be programmed to give better lootbox drops to different players depending on how much/little theyve spent and how frequently/infrequently theyve spent.
Or streamers, influencers, etc. Known games have given away hundreds of lootboxes valued hundreds to thousands of EUR to famous game streamers, so that they would open them in front of large audiences.
I have no problem if a streamer opens his wallet wide and buys lootboxes to open. Their money, their choice. But being sponsored with those lootboxes is evil if you ask me.
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To you, maybe. To others, they do have value.
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Being addicted to lootboxes and trading cards is nothing alike.
Actually psychologically they are perfectly alike. The brain has the same response to both which is what causes the addiction in the first place.
The value proposition on the other hand is completely different, but the addiction itself is not. You're lucky with trading cards that you have something of value, but there are plenty of things which give you this addiction in a physical item but without any of the associated value in the real world too.
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They should be considered gambling (given all the evidence that they are gambling), and we should ban them just like gambling.
Lootboxes are only allowed in certain places, only at certain times, only after the player has been vetted to be 18 and free of gambling disorders etc.
And gaming could return to 5 buck entertaining pieces for the mobile, or 50 buck for a game console. You know, proper content, not just fomo.
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You know there are digital trading cards ala M:tGO and the like, right? And Valve's Artifact?
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Pretty much. But nobody wants to sell physical cardstock anymore if they can avoid it, and WotC/Hasbro would LOVE for you to compile a full set of M:tG cards of the past and mail them in so you can get the same set in M:tGO. There are still exceptions, like Pokemon, where they'll still sell cardstock. They're inevitably overprinted and not worth much to anyone.
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1. You could meet with someone face to face and exchange cards.
2. They were physical objects. Complete a collection and you could potentially raise its value as time goes by.
3. You had to pay using cash rather than a credit/debit card - it was much easier to control the amount you were spending.
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Part of the problem with loot boxes is not just that they're randomized, but that the best items have really low odds. So someone who hopes to get for example their favorite player in FIFA might have to open hundreds of loot boxes before they get him. And the other boxes contain filler that is either entirely useless or can be converted back into some virtual currency at a terrible rate.
Was that the case for baseball cards as well? Or would you at least get cards that you could hope to trade for the ones yo
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Sports cards were supposed to be randomized. They allegedly didn't publish more of an unpopular player than a popular one . . . allegedly. That being said, the most-valuable cards were never from years when a really good player had already established himself as a top player in the league. They were rookie cards, where it was less-clear who would or would not be a fan favorite. If you wanted that exclusive rookie card, you were looking for something that had probably been printed in the same numbers as
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I completely agree that Lootboxes are a bad thing, and will not shed a tear to see them gone,, but a question for lawmakers, how is this any different from card trading games, dating all the way back to baseball cards?
The big difference is that many games take active steps to engineer the games to "hook" players, some going so far as to hire psychologists to find ways to get players to spend more money with skinner-box type mechanics.
Funny you should mention, there are lawsuits on it (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Nothing new here... (Score:2)
A Really Radical Idea... (Score:4, Insightful)
How about we go back to a time where parent was both a noun and a verb? Parents need to parent their kids. Period.
Re:A Really Radical Idea... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: A Really Radical Idea... (Score:3, Insightful)
And there we have, in a joke, the key problem today: We have collectively lost control of ourselves.
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Lots of parents work 2 jobs (Score:2, Offtopic)
In Japan where folks work entirely too much they have society step in and pick up the slack. It's fine if you don't like that, but you're either going to have to deal with massive declines in birthrates as folks stop having kids (say good bye to your 401k unless you're OK with massive immigration) or have tons of mandatory parental leave.
What I'm saying is there's consequences for any action you ta
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Parents need to parent their kids. Period.
I have seen plenty of helicopter parents micromanaging their kids.
It doesn't work as well as you think.
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"Gosh, little Timmy is wetting the bed? According to A Very Special Episode of Diff'rent Strokes we just need to pay more attention to him!"
I generally applaud optimism, but the "just parent your kids!" argument as if there's a simple procedure and people are too lazy and selfish to follow it is idiotic. I'll admit straight up I
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For a toddler, sure you can keep an eye on what they're playing and put everything that costs money behind parental controls. But should a parent approve every purchase their teenager makes? That seems both unpractical and a violation of privacy.
Besides, while kids on average have worse impulse control, getting addicted to loot boxes is a problem for some adults as well. So their effect on kids is only a subset of a bigger issue.
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That's why kids have an allowance, and also work summer jobs/side jobs (part time). Or at least they used to. It's hard for teenagers to get work anymore since so many adults compete for those jobs now, and since the pay has to be so high.
What you don't do is let them plug in your payment credentials into their mobile device/console so they can spend $2k on cosmetics.
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Cutting your kids off from the credit cards would be a good first step.
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Sure, but let's not make that harder for parents than it needs to be. Video games have a rating system. Games rated for young kids should no more have them participating in gambling than watching porn or showing ads for fruit-flavored vape.
A woold where you could trust rating systems is better for parents and kids than a world where you can't, no?
Total Bullshit! (Score:3, Insightful)
Loot boxes are not causing kids to gamble.
The research on these subjects is already pretty solid. These games are using the already built in risk reward addiction centers people have since birth. Kids playing video games with them is not the problem. The problem is people thinking that society and entertainment having to change how we do things to protect them from something that is just part of life.
Everything has a risk/reward component to it. Asking people out or to be friends has these to varying degrees as well. So does drinking, doing drugs, eating sugar, and sex. People seek pleasure and everyone has something that gets them off because the mind wants stimulation.
I usually avoid games that have these mechanics because they ruin the experience for me, but other people enjoy it. If they want to waste their money on it... that is their problem. There are all sorts of things to get addicted to out there... and if they are not learning about them now... they are all going to turn into a bunch of Amish kids at Rumspringa when life runs them right into things they can get addicted too!
Re:Total Bullshit! (Score:4, Informative)
Loot boxes are not causing kids to gamble.
The research on these subjects is already pretty solid. These games are using the already built in risk reward addiction centers people have since birth.
This is the dumbest argument possible.
It is like saying smoking doesn't cause cancer, because cancer is your own cells.
To make an argument this stupid, you have to have enough information to understand the claim, but be too stupid to notice that anybody else understands the claim.
Re:Total Bullshit! (Score:4, Insightful)
It is like saying smoking doesn't cause cancer, because cancer is your own cells.
No, it isn't, because there is actual evidence that smoking causes cancer.
There is no evidence that kids playing with loot boxes causes them to become adults with gambling addiction.
It is just conjecture made up by a politician because he thinks a moral panic will win votes.
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The loot boxes are the gambling addiction. Assuming you can even get keys via gameplay, here ya go, many more loot boxes than you will ever find keys, and hey, you can just buy the keys!
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There is no evidence that kids playing with loot boxes causes them to become adults with gambling addiction.
Are you a "free" game developer?
1. They already are gamblers as kids if they play with loot boxes. By definition. No research required.
2. Has there been research on whether they are gamblers or not as adults? It is a relatively recent phenomenon, so I'd say the jury would probably still be out on the answer to that even if researches are working on it, but, in the meantime, kids are gambling!
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There is no evidence that kids playing with loot boxes causes them to become adults with gambling addiction.
Just because you're not aware of something doesn't make it a fact:
https://journals.plos.org/plos... [plos.org]
Or another one:
https://journals.plos.org/plos... [plos.org]
Or a third:
https://royalsocietypublishing... [royalsocie...ishing.org]
Common man these are the first three results when googling the topic, a bit more research and a bit less ignorance if you're going to post something so matter of fact.
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Loot boxes are literally gambling.
Re:Total Bullshit! (Score:5, Insightful)
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You haven't lived until you'be dropped your son and his cousin off at a hobby store on a Saturday morn, and inhaled the scent of the Warhammer back room filled with unbathed adults.
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Kids might have reward addition impulses since birth, but they still have to develop understand for money value. If kids development changes their need priorities and puts entertainment/pleasure above basic needs, there is a problem.
> I usually avoid games that have these mechanics
You won't be able to avoid them forever when every kindergarten has drug dealer store next to it. Kids won't be able to avoid them forever when peer pressure makes them get the game.
> If they want to waste their money on it.
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The research on these subjects is already pretty solid. These games are using the already built in risk reward addiction centers people have since birth.
But not everyone's risk/reward addiction centers work the same. Some people are pre-disposed to addiction to gambling -- the research on this is very solid. Most people can gamble a bit for fun and then walk away... but some people have a much harder time, even when exposed as an already-mature adult. What happens when you expose children? I don't think there's very much research on that. What I do know is that we have laws in place that prevent ordinary gambling establishments from allowing children t
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Normal risk/reward addictive games only cost you your time. Addictive microtransaction filled games empty out your or your parents wallet and even puts people into debt. Microtransaction filled games are far worse than traditional video games.
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What a load of hogwash (Score:1, Redundant)
Limit loot boxes to adults (Score:2)
The UK has a video game ratings system. All they need to do is to classify (or re-classify) any game with loot boxes (including mobile games, sports titles, free-to-play or anything else) under a 16 or 18 age rating.
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It's a self-regulation rating though: The ESRB in the US and Canada, PEGI in Europe. Both are composed of and run by games publishers. They were established to pre-empt the threat of government-imposed classification.
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And those organizations are NOT doing any self-regulating on this. They have been fighting any kind of self-regulation. Companies even release a game normally and then add loot boxes later so they won't impact the reviews.
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That's how we ended up with the PEGI and the ESRB in the first place. And the BBFC.
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M for microtransactions..
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No it doesn't, you clueless twat. (Score:2, Insightful)
Sorry for my British there. This is just angering me.
Gambling is an addiction.
And like any other "non-physical" addiction, it is a substitute for something that's missing. Which isn't even bad per se! It only becomes bad, if it prevents getting what you actually lack.
That lack is already there, no matter if there is a substitute!
And it actually doesn't even matter what that substitute is!
So nothing is "pushing" anyone "into" an addiction!
Just like something can't "make" you gay.
And this is also, why all con
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Kids aren't suffering from being made addicts. They become addicts because they are suffering.
Maybe because their parents failed, because raising kids, of all thingsy isn't even taught at school! Maybe because only work skills are really taught, and parents are forced to work so much, they have to time left, to raise their kids! Maybe because all the budget is spent on profit maximization of private leeches instead of edication and research and wealth of the general population and automation for the good of the population and proper preventative health care. Maybe because of your shit policies, Sir "NHS Mental Health Director"! Why don't you do something about that?
Or maybe - and I know this is extremely unpopular on /. - maybe we taught kids that they are nothing but self reproducing blobs of organic matter and that nothing has any meaning. For older generations, it was just a cool pose, but unfortunately kids (or some of them) believed it.
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Tax the lootboxes at 90% (Score:2)
can't be monetized? (Score:2)
if they are not regulated because 'they can't be monetized', somebody has not done a good job investigating the problem.
a lot of this stuff is sold for real money.
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Except that:
A: There are rewards that are not monetary, yet feed addiction just as much.
B: You totally can resell them for real world money. There are plenty of sites that do it.
Been on a cruise lately? (Score:3)
These - arcades - they have for kids have almost no actual video games in them. Where is the outrage? If you want to discuss grooming kids for gambling look at most arcades these days. Its more prevalent on a cruise ship due to limited space. When you walk in you might get lucky and find 1 shooter game and maybe some driving game. What you have an over abundance of are either ticket games like spin-the-wheel; claw games; quarter pushers; or the try-to-win an Xbox or PS4.
On a cruise ship you dont have to walk far to draw a direct comparison. In the casinos are actual quarter pushers, claw games for stacks of cash, and video games that replaced slot machines. The only real difference is the arcade gambles for a game console, iphone, ipods, etc; while the casino gambles for actual cash you use to buy game consoles, iphones, ipods, etc.
So why havent they cracked down on something THIS obvious before going after something, while probably linked, still less obvious of a gambling platform?
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Re: Been on a cruise lately? (Score:2)
Yes they will sometimes pair them with places like Gattitown, which is an all you can eat shitty pizza buffet. Or they will pair them with indoor play arenas for kids. Shit that offer indoor gokarts, bumber cars, laser tag, ropes course, rock wall, that sort of shit. Sometimes movie theaters will set up a side room with some arcade games as a bit of nostalgia, but they turn out to just be ticket games instead of actual arcade. I get that they are old but I cant see the Galaga/Ms Packman combo upright, or Ti
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their arcades are not that much different, its just a venue you can draw a direct comparison so quickly. Vegas is probably the same but I havent stayed at a hotel there. Ironically the casinos do not open until 12mi at sea for that reason, and they have a strict no kids policy. They do not have such restrictions at the arcade where you gamble to win items instead of actual cash. I have seen those play-to-win electronic devices all over the place. I really cannot see any difference between that and a claw ma
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These - arcades - they have for kids have almost no actual video games in them. Where is the outrage? If you want to discuss grooming kids for gambling look at most arcades these days. Its more prevalent on a cruise ship due to limited space. When you walk in you might get lucky and find 1 shooter game and maybe some driving game. What you have an over abundance of are either ticket games like spin-the-wheel; claw games; quarter pushers; or the try-to-win an Xbox or PS4.
On a cruise ship you dont have to walk far to draw a direct comparison. In the casinos are actual quarter pushers, claw games for stacks of cash, and video games that replaced slot machines. The only real difference is the arcade gambles for a game console, iphone, ipods, etc; while the casino gambles for actual cash you use to buy game consoles, iphones, ipods, etc.
So why havent they cracked down on something THIS obvious before going after something, while probably linked, still less obvious of a gambling platform?
I've passed through the arcade once or twice during the past few cruises I've been on and they had a decent selection of games, although the space itself wasn't very large. This is partly because I cruise on lines like Princess or Norwegian which tend to have fewer kids (and what kids they do have tend to skew older) so it doesn't need to be large.
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These - arcades - they have for kids have almost no actual video games in them. Where is the outrage?
Back in your wallet with all your money which is why this isn't the same thing as gambling.
Re: Been on a cruise lately? (Score:2)
Think again. Those machines to win bose headphones, xbox, ps4, airpods, are usually $1-$5 per play. I watched a 13yr old girl play it so much on her seapass card she couldnt bother to stand up to click to try again. Just sitting on the floor, playing on her phone, swipe, click, lose, repeat. I hope her parents were rich because she easily ran up $100 in the 30min I was down there letting my son look to see what was there to play.
Anytime a kid can rack up $500 in debt in a couple hours trying to win an xbox
NO ONE gives a shit about addiction. (Score:2)
Every parent that's complaining about loot boxes being addictive, is also the same parent who will vehemently defend their decision to give their young child a smartphone that has full access to social media and hardcore porn, and make every bullshit excuse to justify that action because they're addicts too.
Wake me when we start actually giving a shit about addiction, because we're not even close yet.
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It's just an ass. Calm down.
Are the only bodies you ever saw those fake ones in the media?
Even if you saw a "lemon party" orgy, right there in the jelly isle, ... unless you have a problem with yourself, its effect on you is exactly zerom
I often disagree with you, but not this time. I don't understand why people act as though seeing something they don't like will damage them in some mysterious way.
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We in Germany have a great culture. No matter how shitty and smelly and religous and chimp-like somebody might be, give him two to three generations, and he *becomes* German! Even genetically.
1. Since when?
2. You wish!
(note: I have relatives in Germany)
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Yes, that's worked so well with the Syrians. Also, Germany has no skinheads.