Will Your TV Handle Xbox Series X Games That Tun at 120 FPS? (venturebeat.com) 75
Jeff Grubb, writing for VentureBeat: One of the tidbits revealed during the first Xbox 20/20 event today is that Dirt 5 supports 120 frames per second on Xbox Series X. Publisher Codemasters' racing game is coming in October, but it supports Smart Delivery. So if you get it for Xbox One, you'll get the Xbox Series X version at no additional cost. And what does the Xbox Series X-optimized version of Dirt 5 get you? In an interview with the Xbox team, Codemasters confirmed that Dirt 5 supports the next-gen console's high-framerate feature. This means you can drive around the rally racer at 4K and 120 frames per second. High framerate is one of a number of key features for the next-gen consoles. And that makes sense. Racing games already have nearly photorealistic visuals. More graphical effects are not going to make much of a difference to the presentation of a Dirt 5. So this enables Codemasters to put that extra horsepower toward running the game faster.
OK, so the Xbox Series X can run Dirt 5 at up to 120fps, but that's not going to matter if you don't have the right display. High-refreshrate content is common on the PC, but consoles have primarily topped out at 60fps. Because of this it hasn't matter that most TVs top out at 60Hz. But it is a problem for the next-gen consoles. To actually see Dirt 5 running at 120fps, you'll need a TV that runs at 120Hz or faster. That means the TV updates its frames 120 times every second. The good news here is that a lot of TVs already have this feature. The bad news is that even if you have an HFR panel, support is a lot more complicated than that. The issue comes down to the audio/video interface running between your TV and the Xbox Series X.
OK, so the Xbox Series X can run Dirt 5 at up to 120fps, but that's not going to matter if you don't have the right display. High-refreshrate content is common on the PC, but consoles have primarily topped out at 60fps. Because of this it hasn't matter that most TVs top out at 60Hz. But it is a problem for the next-gen consoles. To actually see Dirt 5 running at 120fps, you'll need a TV that runs at 120Hz or faster. That means the TV updates its frames 120 times every second. The good news here is that a lot of TVs already have this feature. The bad news is that even if you have an HFR panel, support is a lot more complicated than that. The issue comes down to the audio/video interface running between your TV and the Xbox Series X.
Uh (Score:1)
Where did the top story go? I have a screenshot, so I know it was real...
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It was there a quarter of an hour ago.. [i.ibb.co]
Why are we deleting front page stories now?
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Oh it gets better. Let's replace a real story with a rando journal entry. [i.ibb.co]
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It's back, maybe just a glitch.
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Be thankful they are just deleting them. A few months ago they completely changed a story and reposted it to the top but left all the comments intact. At that point anyone visiting the site would have thought the commentators on Slashdot are all a bunch of psychos who can't read, ... I mean far more than the usual.
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Be thankful they are just deleting them. A few months ago they completely changed a story and reposted it to the top but left all the comments intact. At that point anyone visiting the site would have thought the commentators on Slashdot are all a bunch of psychos who can't read, ... I mean far more than the usual.
Phew - I thought it was just me going mad (again)... Quoted you in case you disappear!.
It feels like Dice are regretting purchasing this place - I bet CmdrTaco could buy it back for half the price - it only went for 15m or something anyway
It's a bit more complicated (Score:4, Informative)
For example even if you play on a monitor that can not display the high frame rate that the computational hardware is able to push, this still has an effect on the input latency that can be measured between your input peripherals and the display.
The guys from the youtube channel Hardware Unboxed have put this into comprehensible terms [youtube.com] (in my opinion).
Of course a probably more important question that remains is how many of the games will actually be able to run at such high frame rates. I know that they've talked about 120 FPS and also with real time ray tracing. So I have my doubts there. I want to see some proof first.
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Sounds to me like high end consoles are going to need to start going old school as an all-in-one. Perhaps even in a standup or table top or cocktail table arcade cabinet, with controllers hardwired into cpu inputs and matched monitors.
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This very well could be the same as the early days of HD support, where game developers had to explicitly choose to support higher resolutions by sacrificing visual fidelity, and almost no one wants to do that. It's easy to claim "120FPS and real-time ray tracing", but with no mention of scene complexity, or, you know... all the other stuff that a game actually has to do in real time.
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This is about the Xbox One version being run on the latest console as a backwards compatible title. They won't sacrifice anything because the Xbox One version was already 'nerfed' for the Xbox One's hardware.
Now that the faster console is coming out they are saying "If nothing else, the old game will run at 120fps now." It's a feature they can offer with 0 man hours to implement. They just let Microsoft uncap the framerate of an existing title.
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I've been working with 3D sculpting and texturing for nearly half a year now.
I still consider myself a beginner, but utilizing ray tracing to bake maps is already done on a regular basis. From there I understand that ray tracing is a great method for generating computer graphics in principle. In general I consider it to be a real advancement that we're moving towards real time ray tracing.
My eyes can't handle it (Score:1)
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Yes they can. There's a perceptible difference all the way upwards of 160fps. Even if you need glasses, have macular degeneration, or any other eye problem your eyes can handle it. The only time you can't handle it is if you have akinetopsia and that is an insanely rare brain defect.
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It's not meaningfully perceptible to most of us old farts. I'll stick with my 24fps black and white films.
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Last year they did perform a series of tests [youtube.com] that tried to find out whether or not there is a difference in frame rates that affects the abilities of (still relatively young) players in competitive games at least.
Is the physics implementation still dirt crap? (Score:1)
The last one I tried, was Dirt 2, and the physics were still the same painful joke as in the first Richard Burns Rally.
Granted, you can't tell until you played a realistic sim before.
But when you did... Oh boy... Like a caroussel horse on a central pole. And still cheatable with This One Simple Trick (Codemasters Hate It), where you release the throttle for a moment, just before steering, and suddenly it almost drives around the corner like on rails.
Yup it's old (Score:2)
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I don't know. Do CRTs go that high?
Sure. I had one decades ago that did 120 Hz. I also had LCD shutter glasses so it did 3D at 60 Hz per eye. Really nice monitor for the time, but I much prefer my IPS monitor I'm using now.
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Virtually all standard definition CRT TVs just do NTSC only or PAL only, depending on what part of the world you're in. So you get an interlaced 30 or 25 frames per second. There were some HD CRT TVs made. Don't know about all of them, but the majority of them were 1080i and I kind of doubt they do 120 Hz. Some high end computer monitors are capable of it though.
Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Will Your TV Handle Xbox Series X Games That Tun at 120 FPS?
Betteridge's Law of Headlines says the correct answer is, "Mo!"
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It's 12:35am PST and this typo still has not been fixed. :\
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Perhaps the X Box X connects to Microsoft's servers over a VPN?
LOL! (Score:2)
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Tunak tunak tun!!!!! [youtube.com]
HZ does not equal FPS (Score:1)
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So the answer is 120FPS will be better than 60FPS on a 60Hz display.
False. Unless you specifically enjoy image tearing. You say they are independent, yet pretty much every console on the market has vsync enabled, specifically to not make them independent.
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It's true because at 120fps you'll likely have a frame ready for each hz at which the TV is going to display. At 60 FPS that's not necessarily true, the 60 hz of the display are evenly spaced, the 60fps OTOH will likely have differing ms times between them, sometimes there will be 2 frames per hz and sometimes there will be no frame ready.
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Actually it is TRUE but he did a poor job of explaining it.
The biggest reason to do this is numerical stability. Racing games typically run their PHYSICS frame rate much higher then the RENDERING frame rate.
This post [lfs.net] has a list of what physics rate racing games run at:
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Sigh. If you're going to come to his defense it's probably best not to use an explanation that uses the exact *opposite* definitions he used for Hz and FPS.
But I do agree it seems that no one has defined what it means.
However since we're talking about 120Hz TVs what we mean is 120 pictures being displayed each second. And displaying only 60 of them while being sent significantly higher ones, leads to tearing. It doesn't matter how good the physics are if the screen can't display a coherent image.
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FPS and refresh rate (Hz) are not the same thing, nor are they linked. FPS is the number of frames per second the software is processing, while Hz is the rate at which the hardware in the monitor is refreshing the display. They are two independent functions, and you will see a difference in animation quality with more FPS. So the answer is 120FPS will be better than 60FPS on a 60Hz display.
Care to cite a reference for that claim?
What makes it so I should be able to see a difference between no additional frames being generated or 1000 frames being generated between each frame that is displayed?
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> Care to cite a reference for that claim?
You don't play any racing games, nor have worked on, have you? :-)
Physics engine rates of racing sims123 [lfs.net]
What is a frame ref
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> Care to cite a reference for that claim?
You don't play any racing games, nor have worked on, have you? :-)
Physics engine rates of racing sims123 [lfs.net]
What is a frame referring to in FPS? That's a not rtheroical question Historically it mean rendering frame, but it has slowly become to mean physics frame.
Q. Why do racing games run their physics frame rate so high? A. Numerical Stability.
> What makes it so I should be able to see a difference between no additional frames being generated or 1000 frames being generated between each frame that is displayed?
The higher frame rate will have less judder.
No, I don't develop racing games, and I think the last one I played was "DeathTrack" [wikipedia.org] (the original version) :)
The definitions I assumed for FPS and Hz, as indicated in the OP, were "Number of images generated per second" and "Number of images displayed per second". I had thought about putting in some comments about how higher rate simulation, tear mitigation (like double- or triple- buffering), making sure you can always have a frame ready when the display is ready to show the next image, etc. would be sep
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How about no?
120 FPS (Hz) isn't generally better than 60 FPS on a 60Hz display. They are all frequencies and so measured in Hz. You are of course correct in that Hz doesn't equal FPS but not why (unspecified frequency v.s. a specific frequency).
Ti Ton't Tnow (Score:2)
Jeez... (Score:1)
"Will Your TV Handle Xbox Series X Games That ###Tun### at 120 FPS?"
Come on, really Slashdot?
They don't exist, do they? (Score:2)
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Re: They don't exist, do they? (Score:2)
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And I am sick of this simpleminded "Maor $WHATEVER_AMOUNT iz bettur" marketing that panders to the dopamine centers of the Lowest Common Denominator. Like cell phone cameras with "100MP!!!!1111!!!111!!!" which have shitty optics, and a cheap sensor that produce huge files bloated up with blurriness and sensor noise. Never mind that other factors besides raw GHZ/MP/HZ/XYZ/Whatever determine how well a product works.
But it's just easier to penis-wave and not confuse the uneducated masses with detaile
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Maybe for newly manufactured ones. My several year old Panasonic Viera (plasma display) is 600 Hz capable.
No, it isn't.
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24 FPS for film
30 FPS for television/shot on video content
60+Hz - if the big game is being watched at my house
In other words, I don't really give a damn about the amount of HZ a TV produces, other than knowing I will have to dig through layers of menus to turn off video smoothing so filmed content does not look like a fucking cheap videotaped budget show.
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" amount of HZ a TV produces, "
Should've said
"I don't care about how high a framerate a TV is capable of producing."
Consoles (Score:2)
Get a console so YoU wOnT hAvE tO wOrRy AbOuT hArDwArE aNd UpGrAdEs they said.
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pLaNnEd oBsOlEcEnCe + bAiT aNd sWiTcH.
Do you really believe any company who says "Ohhh nonononono! You won't have to $UPG$RA$DE$! Honest (old racist word for Native American)!"
Xbox One S.... (Score:1)
What's 'tun'.. (Score:2)
We're talking about video games, is it related to 'fun'? They rhyme, after all..
Maybe it's how heavy the TV is? 'Tun' sounds like 'ton'. Do I need a special scale or something?
'Tun' also sounds vaguely like it belongs in an Asian language. My TV was made by Samsung. Does that have anything to do with it?
interesting (Score:3)
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"10 year old plasma is getting long in the tooth."
Those plasmas are real energy hogs and are very prone to burn in. There's a good reason why you haven't been able to find one in a big box store for years now.
I have to wonder about the cost in electricity running that heavy (in terms of weight and power consumption) vs. buying an LCD set with the same picture size.
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Those plasmas are real energy hogs and are very prone to burn in. There's a good reason why you haven't been able to find one in a big box store for years now.
LCDs were a lot cheaper and brighter, which looked better to the average joe in Best Buy. Those are the main reasons.
Plasma was heavier, hotter, less efficient, was more expensive to produce, required more care in shipping, and had potential burn-in issues (I used numerous plasma displays as PC monitors and never had permanent burn-in)... but plasma excelled at black levels (e.g., the famous kuro), color depth/richness, and motion processing, and handled non-native resolution processing much better -- those
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Just because the console is capable of 4k resolution and 120hz refresh rate, it doesn't mean that games will actually run at 4k@120hz.
Unless Dirt 5's engine is ridiculously lightweight (we're talking CSGO levels of lightweight), I don't see 4k@120hz happening on a console. Even high-end computers can't reliably push that for any recent AAA tittle.
The other unmentioned problem (Score:1)
I don't want to tell anyone how to do their jobs, but wouldn't the XBox Series X developers get better results by adding graphic detail to the game, rather than pointlessly high framerates?
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I don't know if anybody else has this 'condition', but my visual perception sees video/non film content as running at a higher FPS than the real world. As if everything outside and around the television screen is 'running' at a lower framerate, close to film's 24 fps. And I've noticed this all of my life, even back in the CRT television/VCR days. Sometimes the difference is very jarring.
If my vision isn't whacked out and this is normal, why does this happen? Does this have something to do with the
Tun at 120 fps??? (Score:2)
Can Daler Mehndi [youtube.com] handle such high frame rates? Probably.
a lot of 120hz TVs out there? nein (Score:1)
almost every TV these days is advertised having 120hz or above, but most are 60hz panels using interpolation and/or black frame insertion to claim 120hz -- i.e., using software to insert "fake" frames to bump up the frame number; i.e., not true 120hz screens.
hell, most 4k TVs in homes today use hdmi 2.0, which only allows for 4k@60@4:4:4 color, or the ugly 4k@60:@4:2:0 color.
if you want a true 120hz tv, you need hdmi 2.1 and a 120hz panel. some are out there.
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no (Score:1)