Microsoft Will Ban Forza Players Who Add the Confederate Flag To Their Digital Cars (theverge.com) 152
Microsoft has just announced it will ban players who use the controversial confederate flag in Forza Horizon and Forza Motorsport, which both allow users to personalize their cars with custom designs. The Verge reports: In a statement posted on Twitter last Friday, Microsoft updated its enforcement guidelines to have a zero-tolerance policy for any player using the confederate flag or other symbols that represent "notorious iconography," including Nazi imagery and the rising sun, which can be a symbol of Japanese imperialism. Microsoft will not automatically ban players that create designs with these controversial images; instead, the original designer will need to be reported by submitting a ticket.
Digital Logo (Score:5, Insightful)
Mods: Please google the Digital Equipment Corporation.
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Yeah I had a big WTF on that too.
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The "editors" are a joke -- but with a 6-digit id you already knew that.
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with a 6-digit id you already knew that.
Tell me about it. /. is not what it used to be.
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with a 6-digit id you already knew that.
Tell me about it. /. is not what it used to be.
Funny thing is, folks have been posting that same sentiment since nearly the day after /.'s inception.
Still here, still occasionally incredibly insightful; and, if you have to discuss something important tomorrow with your friends or colleagues, it is to your benefit if it you witnessed it discussed here the night before.
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The rules are at least still the same: no deletes, no edits.
How it should be.
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Aye. After careful review, hit the submit button only when you're certain... even then, it's quite possible there's a hole in your argument some fucking clever nerd will pick apart.
I love that.
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I was so pissed off when gmail added an "undo email" button. That's just so... l4m3
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Where's the gaming and censorship icons?
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First. World. Problems. Getting upset over pixels. (Score:3, Informative)
Glad to see Microsoft taking a hard stand against numbers, I mean, pixels. They are truly responsible for all the problems in the world. /s
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Yeah, we should just allow hardcore porn ads over all websites too, since they're just pixels.
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insert Custer's Last Stand reference/screen shot
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Try the "it's just a really big number" or "it's just some pixels" argument in court, see if your logic works there.
In fact you could get away with all sorts of crimes that way. "I didn't solicit contract killers, I just mashed the keyboard and produced a random stream of characters that those stupid snowflakes interpreted as a bounty!"
Or how about "it's not ransomware, it just re-arranged the bits into a different order but they are all still there!"
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"I just mashed the keyboard and produced a random stream of characters that those stupid snowflakes interpreted as a" money.
Isn't that literally how "Bitcoin" works?
Re:First. World. Problems. Getting upset over pixe (Score:5, Insightful)
You're being sarcastic, but ultimately people being utter c***s in online play, especially 13 year old tough guys is a major problem. I'm looking forward to the day Microsoft introduces voice recognition as well and a policy of banning players who claim to or threaten to give another player's dear mother a good time. When that happens basically everyone under the age of 21 will instantly be banned from online gaming and we can finally get to playing the game without dealing with toxic shits.
So is this virtue signalling to some degree? Yes
Is this pointless to warrant a truly sarcastic post such as yours and is this something that can't be improved in an online game? Absolutely not.
Mind you a large part of it is not that people playing games are racist, but that people playing games are antisocial c***s.
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Does anyone bother with open channel voice chat any more? Seems to be that people who bother with voice at all mostly limit it to their friends.
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Unlikely. Unfortunately that makes playing team games decidedly less... team oriented.
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Under 21 utter cunts are the whole damn market though. If these kids had some combination of taste, skills, or money they would be gaming on PC and sucking Gabe's cock (because steam DRM is magically OK).
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Nope. 42 here and I put all my gaming money into Playstation. PCs have been shite for gaming for a few cycles now. Steam is utter bollocks.
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I have a lot more money to waste on games every month than some fucking teenager who has one PC for both work and play.
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I want there to be assholes in the game. So I can beat them. The best part about running into a 13-year-old nazi online is being able to kick the shit out of them, and then tell them that they lost because their stupid religion is weak AF, and they better give up that racist shit if they want to GET GOOD.
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I want there to be assholes in the game. So I can beat them.
That's great unless they are on your team.
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Microsoft: So we're moving to a model where you have to pay for your OS every month.
Everyone: Why?
Microsoft: Curating what you're allowed to run on your box or have on your desktop is a ton of work, mate.
One note. (Score:4, Insightful)
The rising sun flag is Japan's flag for the navy and is used throughout Japan as a traditional symbol, and is only controversial in Korea which was colonized by Japan, and some other parts of far-east Asia.
I'm sure every country on the planet would take offense at another nation's current flag one way or another.
Re: One note. (Score:3, Insightful)
So what you're saying is Japan is still racist?
We should add the US flag. I've seen people online say the US is a racist country, founded on racism and racist to,this day.
Israel. Don't forget her Jews. They gotta go.
Any former colonial power. All racists by definition.
All South American countries. The natives genocided and their lands taken over by those same colonial powers.
South Africa, obviously. Goes without saying.
Australia. Descendants of criminals, and criminal,to,this,day. Wiped out the nati
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Somebody please mod parent back up - some troll with mod points down-modded a valid and well-reasoned argument.
Re: One note. (Score:2)
Just wait until these mobs realise that the majority of the slave ships were flying Portuguese flags. Definitely gotta ban that one.
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Union Jack as well, a good chunk of problems started with someone looking at a foreign land's bounties and saying "'ello 'ello 'ello wot's all this then?"
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You forgot China!
They are currently busy with the Uyghurs and oppressing them.
I don't see very many of these virtue signaling businesses like Microsoft doing shit.
And you brought up the UN. They are dirty just like everyone else bro, or do you not read history?
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Or Microsoft could stop with the virtue signaling bullshit
Yes and no. Will this stop racism? Hell no. But I support doing anything that gets toxic 13 year old shits banned. Hell the world would be a truly good place if they removed all custom paint and insta-banned any player who mentions another player's mum. The positive sideffect there is only adults will be left playing the game.
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My favourite is the Dutch language. People are described as autochtoon (people from here) and allochtoon (everyone else). That much is easy but they are also broken up into western allochtoons and non-western allochtoons.
Who are westerners? Europeans (excluding Turks), North Americans, ... wait for it ... Indonesians, and the Japanese (actually expanded to include all Oceanic countries).
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Canada is still a monarchy. Their flag should be banned in America, where there are no kings.
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Welcome to a world where every user has to obey the laws of every country, sometimes without having a clue what they are. It's not just Chinese censorship crossing the divide. Companies want to protect their bottom line worldwide and don't take any chances.
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The swastika was a symbol for a religion, that symbol representing good things. It was appropriated by the Germans and abused by them and in what must be the greatest display of public arrogance, banned from use, not rehabilitated but the victims those who used the symbol for good banned from using it by those fucking arse holes who used it for evil, the German government should be profoundly ashamed for that abuse.
What M$ is doing is they are claiming the authority of GOD, they will define the understandi
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They write the code that makes the game run. They literally are the GODS of this game. Period. Full stop.
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Before the Nazi's, Buddhists would use either swastika. After the Nazi's they tended to use the counterclockwise version more for obvious reasons, though more recently it seems they've been shying away from using it entirely.
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Myth. The swastika is used in all directions and rotations. The nazi swastika is made up not only of its orientation but its framing.
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Colonized is a bit of an understatement. Invaded and subjected to war crimes would be more accurate. Then again so was China but Mao apparently liked the asahi design and it's been used in China for various things.
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Um, that's exactly what "colonized" means. How is one word an understatement, but the literal definition of that word is not?
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Koreans are the best at multi-player team-based games. South Korea is the 3rd most important market in gaming after Japan and the USA.
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less hard-on-the-eyes than the gay flag, at least,
but that's not saying much.
DEC? (Score:3)
What the flippin' heck?
The editors are so out of sync with the roots and history of Slashdot, and the computer industry in general.
This is the second time in recent months that DEC's logo is used as a generic 'digital' icon.
Are Hammer and Sickle Ok? (Score:5, Insightful)
How about Hammer-and-Sickle, still in uninhibited use by Communists world-wide, including Communist [facebook.com] Party [reddit.com] of the USA [twitter.com]? What about Che Guevara portraits [google.com]?
The reporting requires creating an account. With Microsoft...
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Communists are okay. Even though they have a body count, and engaged in more human suffering then any other modern ideology in the last ~140 years.
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Net positive. Otherwise we wouldn't have gone from 1.8B to 7B in 100 years.
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By the same logic, Soviets were also net positive. Especially when you look at what happened to population numbers after USSR disintegrated.
Murder, Kidnapping, Prostitution (Score:5, Insightful)
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I got here way too late to say what you said better
MS, you really enjoy playing whack-a-mole? (Score:2)
Because what will happen now is that they will get creative in circumventing your ban. Make the flag blue with a red cross, or a white cross with red stars in them, or change otherwise JUST enough to make it escape your ban hammer. And if you word it so broadly that you can actually ban anyone you want, be prepared for the shitstorm when this makes you ban some sort of anti-racism (or pro-$good_thing_du_jour) symbol.
Because now, what you get is a load of idiots who will make it their mission to defend muh f
To illustrate what I mean (Score:3)
This [wikipedia.org] is an alternative confederate flag. Ban that too? Ok.
If you take the "Stars and Bars" and remove the stars, you get the Flag of Austria [wikipedia.org]. Ban that too? What if I put the Polish flag [wikipedia.org] twice onto my car, just flipped once so it ends up like the Bars without Stars again? And put a circle of stars around it because it looks nice (let's say I claim that's the symbol of my home town).
Do you really want to deal with that bullshit?
Good-Bye, General (Score:3)
I give my final salute to General Lee and The Dukes of Hazzard.
And good luck, Microsoft, with jumping the PR train. Being against racism is cool, but swinging the ban hammer is as dumb Sheriff Rosco ever was. So play your little trumpet, Microsoft, but being as superficial as your actions are, does it not really matter if you're against jazz, racism or open source.
What about ironic usage? (Score:3)
What if it is used ironically, like https://i.imgflip.com/46pjs0.j... [imgflip.com] ?
(Asking for a friend)
Re:What about ironic usage? (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, it's not going to matter.
This whole movement is a little too late and it's an act of virtue signalling on a massive scale. Don't expect anyone to be rational or forgiving. People are fighting hate with hate. You don't find dumber people. So you better not challenge their intelligence, because you won't find any. I'm sure somewhere will people already start burning history books just to get rid of any reminders of racism.
how are you (Score:2)
This Confederate Flag Problem has an easy solution (Score:2)
Why don't the "confederate flag" people just issue the "new confederate flag" with the colors changed, like black and orange instead of red and blue and call it the new confederate flag that stands for everything we like plus the inclusion of black people, sans slavery and all the bad stuff. Southers can continue to be proud of being southers and all that, wave their own flag (which would look cooler than the current one) and we'd have this issue off the table.
This shouldn't be much of a problem anyway, sin
The south changed their flag so many times ... (Score:2)
... it really wouldn't matter all that much.
Stupid... (Score:2)
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-5 anonymous coward
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I thought it was a Star Trek reference.
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First time I ever heard of it. Eventually you have to wonder how many of these conspiracy theories are just another form of astroturf.
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I find it very interesting that no-one seems to consider the meaning of symbols changes over time, to where it no longer references what it once did...
Especially true for the Swastika. Since the WW2, all swastikas represent only the Nazis in the west. But go in any East Asian country and you are going to see them everywhere in Buddhist temples, where they predate the Nazis by millenia.
If was also used by the Carlsberg breweries, displayed prominently on beer bottles. It changed when it became a Nazi symbol, but you can still see the swastikas in the original building in Copenhagen.
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Re:Those who erase history... (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, learn your actual history. The flag people think of as "the confederate flag" was not, in fact, the flag of the Confederate States. It was the battle flag of the Army of the Potomac. https://www.historynet.com/emb... [historynet.com]
This. The official flag, AKA the Stars and Bars, was to close to the US flag and thus to avoid confusion the battle flag was created. The first official flag, the Stainless banner, was white with the battle flag in the upper left quadrant. It was too close to a surrender flag, which ironically was appropriate, and changed.
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"It was too close to a surrender flag, which ironically was appropriate"
It is actually pretty interesting how much irony does in fact exist throughout history.
And yes, the official records indeed state that the south did in fact "surrender". It is far better to learn about history to avoid repeating it rather then outlawing it, because outlawing things creates a chilling effect and usually only leaves such discussions in a vacuum chamber.
This is quite literally the same result of USA's anti-socialism/commu
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Nobody is outlawing history you disingenuous sea-lion. You can still learn about the Nazis in German school. You just don't find any fucking monuments to them. Quit your snowflake hand-wringing. I do not for a second believe you really care about "both sides." This is the same dishonest propaganda authoritarians always try to use. They demand tolerance, where they offer none. And once we accept their intolerance, that is all the foot in the door they need in order to enforce intolerance.
This is the paradox
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The more interesting question is why are people still using that flag? The Obama administration lasted twice as long as the Confederacy and in the end they both lost and were mostly judged to have been on the wrong side of history.
I'm not an American so my understanding is mostly based on what I have read and observed, but it seems like people put that flag on their cars not to teach history to random people they pass by but to send a very unpleasant message to them.
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What is a "communist fist?" Has any country ever used a fist in their flag? It's a symbol of fighting oppression, not of communism.
Tell me, which of the " the teachings of Marx, Lenin and Stalin" were racist or misogynistic? Be specific. With references.
The confederate flag represents the revisionist mythology of the "Northern War of Aggression" and the lies of the "Just Cause." It represents nothing more than a desire for authoritarianism, institutionalized racism, and white christian nationalism. It's an
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Stalin straight up banned abortion in USSR (which was legalized early on under Bolsheviks), so I don't think there's much to argue about that guy. But given that he also e.g. re-instituted paid high school education, he wasn't exactly a communist, either.
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Coincidentally, Mississippi gets a lot of flak for having the battle flag in as part of their state flag; while Georgia's current flag (they used to have on with battle flag, then changed that) is literally the first Confederate national flag, just with the state seal between the stars.
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"Absolutely no one thinks of the confederate as a symbol of fighting oppression."
When someone says "no one" you already know you are talking to the indoctrinated.
There is always someone that thinks something you would not expect. There is always someone that hates something you like, and likes something you hate, and there is always someone that thinks differently than you.
Keep in mind that Nazi symbology especially their flags are outlawed in Germany and many nations but it still has not stopped them has
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True, you and I do not see the value in keeping those things around. So perhaps this is not a question you should be asking me... how about instead asking the people that want to keep it around?
I have this opinion on the subject. I have only been exposed to a narrow portion of things history, a great many things, just like all of the rest of us. If I only allow what is currently trending to become my basis for what I should and should not allow then I would have already destroyed myself. Before I run do
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Trying to argue with an authoritarian over what is "okay" is pointless. What they want to do is always okay. What I want to do is not.
The victor is always the one most able or lucky to win the fight, whether or not that is "okay." Having the better moral argument won't keep a tyrant from raping your family to death in front of you.
The slaves had the better moral argument, by any stretch of the imagination. That fact only helped once enough people were convinced to take up arms to free them from tyranny.
It w
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I think you need to brush up on the actual history of the raised fist. Someone has been feeding you propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Those who erase history... (Score:4, Interesting)
Absolutely no one thinks of the confederate as a symbol of fighting oppression.
You mean nobody in New York or Seattle, or whatever other solid-blue city you're living in? Yeah, that's probably true. But the fact that you've never spoken with anyone outside of your social bubble doesn't mean thtlat people with different beliefs do not exist. People who believe that the federal government had no right to impose it's will on the southern states do generally view the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol of fighting oppression.
Re: Those who erase history... (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, but they all believe we had the right to impose our will on folks from Africa. Or native Americans. One side lost bud. That's the way of history, especially at that time. You lose, you don't get a participation trophy.
There was no fighting oppression in the confederacy. The fight was solely to keep the institution of slavery, which was the real oppression.
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Bullshit. Revisionist "LoSt CaUsE" bullshit, not worthy of even an argument.
Slavery was the reason for the civil war, full stop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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The fight was solely to keep the institution of slavery,
Slavery was a huge part to the civil war, but to say it was solely to keep the institution of slavery is going too far. There were tariffs, and before you say that wasn't a major issue, it nearly caused a civil war in the 1830s [wikipedia.org], before the actual civil war even began.
So yes, slavery was a major issue, and no, it wasn't the only issue. Southerners didn't like being pushed around by the north, and they don't today.
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Southerners also didn't like that they couldn't themselves push Northerners around as much as they wanted - after slavery, the second most common complaint in the Southern states' declarations of secession is the free states' nullification of the Fugitive Slave Act. Consequently, the CSA constitution had a bunch of provisions added it to strengthen that (so much for "states rights"...).
Re: Those who erase history... (Score:2)
Oh, but they all believe we had the right to impose our will on folks from Africa. Or native Americans. One side lost bud. That's the way of history, especially at that time. You lose, you don't get a participation trophy
I see. Well the natives lost all the other wars, so I guess you'd be cool with banning all of their symbols also, right? And I'm sure you want to get rid of the reservations too while we are it; what's with this "letting the losers keep land" nonsense.
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The legal and civil way to end slavery in the south was by legal and civil means, not bloodshed. There was a valid means to ending slavery without blood shed and it would've led to a much brighter future for this nation. Today the nation still stands divided. Let's not pretend the north was any better than the south. The north was full of racists too if not slavers.
Why did the north ever sign a binding contract allowing slavery if their so morally righteous? How dare they sign such a thing only to revert an
Re: Those who erase history... (Score:2)
And let us not forget, the 13th didn't end slavery, merely ensured that the government convicts the man before he is enslaved. Modern slavery not be the same experience as southern chattel slavery, but lets not forget that slavery is still legal in the united states so long as the government says you can be enslaved.
I wish! If this were even remotely true, the jails would be paying for themselves (and maybe even turning a profit!) instead of costing hundreds of billions of dollars every year. If your "slaves" cost you more than they generate you don't have slaves; you have dependents.
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Oppressors will always decry a return to equality as their own oppression. Just like domestic abusers claim they are the real victims. It's an easy lie to make.
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The North let the South be after the Reconstruction, and the result was a bunch of one-party states with Jim Crow laws.
So, yes, sometimes, you have to keep imposing your will on those who'd otherwise oppress others, for as long as it takes. They can come around to a new way of thinking that'd render that unnecessary, or not - up to them.
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Re: Those who erase history... (Score:2)
Re: Those who erase history... (Score:2)
I do believe it was the South that fired the first shots of the Civil War.
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What does it mean for a country to "want" to leave?
Like, for Brexit, they had a legit referendum with all the citizens voting, so like it or not, that's the will of the people.
But slave states had significant slave populations that not only couldn't vote, they couldn't speak out at all. Confederacy as a whole was 1/3 slaves. Two states - Mississippi and South Carolina - had over half of their populations as slaves, so they couldn't even meaningfully be considered republics.
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Everything is always a both sides depiction.
Suppose you Kill someones dad, and then their child kills you, and then your child kills them, and then their child kills your child...
See where your stupidity leads? O wait... that's right... you don't see it or you would not have the position that you currently hold.
Only person started the killing in the story, but none of them were justified in the end. Each act of retribution only continues the cycle of violence.
"By comparing people who oppose racism to hist
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Everything is always a both sides depiction.
Suppose you Kill someones dad, and then their child kills you, and then your child kills them, and then their child kills your child...
See where your stupidity leads? O wait... that's right... you don't see it or you would not have the position that you currently hold.
Only person started the killing in the story, but none of them were justified in the end. Each act of retribution only continues the cycle of violence.
"By comparing people who oppose racism to historical and contemporary examples of racism, you demonstrate an incredible feat of mental gymnastics."
You either die a martyr or live long enough to become the villain. Do you know why BLM movements, SJWs, and Feminists are able to gain the momentum they have now? It's because they already won, except they don't know it. And just like everyone else that does not know they have already won, they continue to fight, even going to the extremes to calling anything that can be construed as something they hate as being the same evil they have been fighting all along. That is where we are at right now. They have won their arguments and now they are looking for ways to stay relevant and in power, even if they have to burn down the communities they claim to serve!
Even if you're not the kind of girl I usually go for, you are occasionally intriguing. Thank you for that.
Re: Hate is A-OK (Score:2)
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Keep in mind, in order to dehumanize others enough to justify their slaughter and/or oppression you have to constantly advance the notion that anything they are associated with is only evil.
Just imagine... anyone with a complaint about your group having the power to cancel your culture because they don't like something that happened in the past.
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It's clear there are intolerant and hateful people on both sides. Pretty sure there's a South Park episode about this.
Indeed, sir, with reasonable certainty... and, if you include Simpson's episodes, the probability increases to virtual certainty.
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Try to ban it, get more of it.
As that little distant monarchy called "England" found out a couple centuries ago.
244 years ago? I mean, that's as close to (the far side of the subway car with another rider coughing his fool head off) 'resting on your laurels", as you'd want to get...
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it's even in ancient Jewish kabbalistic works. For most of human history it's been a symbol of good and sacred things.
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There are many such (player created) decals available in Forza already, so fill your boots.