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PlayStation (Games)

Can't Get a PlayStation 5? Meet the Grinch Bots Snapping Up the Holidays' Hottest Gift. (washingtonpost.com) 148

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Computer programs that automate online tasks, called bots, have aligned with the coronavirus pandemic and low inventories of hot products to create a perfect storm of holiday disappointment -- or opportunity, depending on your perspective. From a report: On Black Friday, when it launched a deal on the console, Walmart.com says it blocked more than 20 million bot attempts in the sale's first 30 minutes. Target says it's constantly tracking and blocking bots, focusing on high-demand products such as the PS5. One British retailer called Very said it canceled at least 1,000 game console orders after it realized they were placed by bots. Using shopping bots to buy these products is perfectly legal in the United States, despite flustering retailers and stoking annoyance for customers like Coleman. Some bot operators are modern scalpers, in it to make money by forcing Santa to pay market prices. Others are computer-savvy shoppers now turning to bots out of desperation to fill their own gift lists.

Shopping bots aren't new, but their use is growing fast. Deployed by people who buy and resell tickets, high-end sneakers and designer fashion, they're now expanding into other categories where demand outstrips supply -- including grocery delivery slots at the height of the pandemic. Imperva, a cybersecurity firm, says that among its clients, "bad bots" accounted for 24.1 percent of all traffic in 2019 -- up from 20.4 percent in 2018. Bots are only one part of the PS5 crunch -- there have even been daring heists. But stopping the use of bots is easier said than done in an Internet economy that connects so many different interests: companies that want to make highly sought-after products and early adopters who will do anything to get them.
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Can't Get a PlayStation 5? Meet the Grinch Bots Snapping Up the Holidays' Hottest Gift. More

Can't Get a PlayStation 5? Meet the Grinch Bots Snapping Up the Holidays' Hottest Gift.

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  • Don't pay more than MSRP for a commodity item (Score:5, Insightful)

    by svendsen ( 1029716 ) on Thursday December 17, 2020 @03:01PM (#60842118)
    Given the PS5 (like many things) are not important or critical, and if people were smart (hahahahaha), they would just wait to a) not overpay and b) not feed into this bad behavior. But gotta have the newest and shiniest thing right?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      Yeah it's not like there is some major event coming up largely geared towards children who have no concept of any of this. I guess you don't have any kids, or can't even come close to empathizing with a parent.

      What am I saying? This is Slashdot, so "all humans are dumb, except for me the poster, who is the smartest best person and everyone stood up and clapped."

      • Re:Don't pay more than MSRP for a commodity item (Score:5, Insightful)

        by svendsen ( 1029716 ) on Thursday December 17, 2020 @03:06PM (#60842144)
        Yes I have a kid and I set expectations accordingly around gifts, money, whatever. And no I do not empathize with the parents who bend over backwards for their kids around non important things (like consumer goods).

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Bradac_55 ( 729235 )

          Yea I bet your loads of fun around the holidays.

        • +1. Kids don't benefit in the slightest from being taught to have zero impulse control and that they automatically whatever they want. Quite the opposite. Those are the kids that are more likely to grow up up to their eyeballs in debt wondering where they went wrong.

          Stick that PS5 money in their college fund. They will thank you much later, and you'll thank yourself as well. Nothing beats giving your kids a future where they don't have to support their penniless parents in their old age while simultane

          • Re:Don't pay more than MSRP for a commodity item (Score:5, Insightful)

            by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Thursday December 17, 2020 @04:37PM (#60842524)

            +1. Kids don't benefit in the slightest from being taught to have zero impulse control and that they automatically whatever they want. Quite the opposite.

            Citation needed.

            Success in life is strongly correlated with having rich parents.

            The spoiled rich kid failing in life while the scrappy and hardworking poor kid succeeds may make a good story, but real life isn't like that.

            • +1. Kids don't benefit in the slightest from being taught to have zero impulse control and that they automatically whatever they want. Quite the opposite.

              Citation needed.

              Success in life is strongly correlated with having rich parents.

              The spoiled rich kid failing in life while the scrappy and hardworking poor kid succeeds may make a good story, but real life isn't like that.

              successful rich children also have parents that can invest in better quality education, provide networking opportunities and provide more resources. those rich children won't start out their careers with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and no credit.

              news flash more money provides more opportunity.

            • Comment removed based on user account deletion

              • People with no impulse control usually end up with nothing.

                An obvious counter-example is sitting in the Oval Office.

                • he is an example of the adage;

                  if you owe $1,000.00 you have a problem
                  if you owe $1,000,000.00 your bank has a problem
                  if you owe $1,000,000,000.00 your country has a problem

                  He has nothing but the people giving him the loans didn't seem to understand that. It is the ultimate case of failing upward.

            • > Success in life is strongly correlated with having rich parents.

              You might be surprised to learn that having rich parents is INVERSELY correlated with building wealth. That seems to be because people try to live the lifestyle they grew up, owning the kinda of cars their 50 year old parents had - on the income of a twenty-something.

              In a study of 10,000 millionaires:

              Most had parents who were NOT millionaires.

              97% did not inherit a million dollars.

              80% has parents who were middle class or lower.

              Inheritance

      • the vast majority of PS5 players won't buy it this year so it's not a big deal if someone's kids don't get it

        • Better yet, wait till June 2021, and buy one used on Craigslist from one of the many girlfriends of PS5 owners who want to get rid of it because "He is spending more time with that thing than me!"

          • Better yet, wait till June 2021, and buy one used on Craigslist from one of the many girlfriends of PS5 owners who want to get rid of it because "He is spending more time with that thing than me!"

            nah get it from the pawn shop they will have tested an made sure it turns on, craigslist you meet up at a starbucks somewhere get home to find out you bought a bricked unit.

      • Yeah it's not like there is some major event coming up largely geared towards children who have no concept of any of this. I guess you don't have any kids, or can't even come close to empathizing with a parent.

        Do as some Asians (e.g. Filipinos, Chinese) do and give them money in a red envelope.

        Last I heard, children like money.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        This isnt "Tickle me Elmo" thought its game console geared at children who are old enough to have concepts like "they are sold out" explained to them.

        Yes if we were talking about 4 year olds or something there is the 'magic' of Christmas morning that you want to create for them.

        On the other hand your middle school-er or older that is getting a PS5, really probably should be happy with getting a new title so the have "something to open and play with for winter break" and promise you'll buy them a PS5 in mont

      • Re:Don't pay more than MSRP for a commodity item (Score:4)

        by Ogive17 ( 691899 ) on Thursday December 17, 2020 @04:23PM (#60842474)
        I have a son who is 7, he asked for an iPad with the game Among Us on it. He's not getting an iPad with the game on it. He'll get something that he enjoys but doesn't isolate him from human contact.

        Will he be a bit disappointed.. maybe. Will he get over it, yep.

        I have little empathy for the parents who cannot say 'no' to their kids.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Which is why one manages expectations.

        Because consider this - the PS5 retails for $500. Scalpers are selling it for $1500-2000. I know parents are harried and such, but I don't know many rich enough that they will willingly hand over $2000 just to have the box under the tree, when the next day prices will plummet because the rush and demand will fall.

        Especially since scalpers have low morals anyways, with scams that involve taking the money and running, to shipping bricks, to shipping stolen consoles which

      • Yeah it's not like there is some major event coming up largely geared towards children who have no concept of any of this. I guess you don't have any kids, or can't even come close to empathizing with a parent.

        What am I saying? This is Slashdot, so "all humans are dumb, except for me the poster, who is the smartest best person and everyone stood up and clapped."

        Yes I am a parent of two sons I am also frugal, and can get them other gifts they. I didn't always get what exactly wanted most for Xmas as a child but always got something that i liked and was satisfied. A parent that spoil there children with everything they ever ask for end up with offal children.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dcw3 ( 649211 )

        I raised one, and taught her not to fall for this kind of bullshit. If you do, you've got nobody to blame but yourself, and you're setting the example for your kid that this is acceptable. IMO it's poor parenting to give into it.

    • So you were born a fully grown adult? Who also birth or created offspring who where fully grown adults?

      Kids in general, don't think about luxury items like adults do. Being the first kid with the new Toy, gives them their 15 minutes of fame. Where all the other kids are envious of them for not having one. This stuff is actually very important to them as it helps them identify their place amongst their peers.

      Now I am not saying spoiling your kid, is good for them, but for them, the PS5 is often more impor

      • So you were born a fully grown adult? Who also birth or created offspring who where fully grown adults?

        Kids in general, don't think about luxury items like adults do. Being the first kid with the new Toy, gives them their 15 minutes of fame. Where all the other kids are envious of them for not having one. This stuff is actually very important to them as it helps them identify their place amongst their peers.

        Now I am not saying spoiling your kid, is good for them, but for them, the PS5 is often more important to them than the actual entertainment value of it, because the other kids want one too.

        Christmas time, is often a good period of time, for the parent to give in and give the child something they want without going too far. After 2020 I am sure parents want to give something a little bigger if they can.

        Me I don't have kids, If I wanted a gaming console, I am like, yep, Ill wait say until March or June. However in kid time, that is forever.

        yes because we need to teach our children that they need to keep up with the jones even if they can't afford it while there young so the can grow up to have no notions of delayed gratification or understand that they don't always get to be the most popular or have the status symbol so that can be debt ridden consumers they whole life.

    • Counter point: if you can afford the newest shiniest thing why not pay the rate you want? Not everyone is poor and the world is a reflection of that. Scalpers exist to correct a supply and demand imbalance, these imbalances always favour those with more resources (i.e. the rich).

      You're effectively saying: Hey rich people, please pretend your poor! It won't work.

  • UK already proposed laws about this (Score:3)

    by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Thursday December 17, 2020 @03:03PM (#60842126)

    Eventually, this may become so obnoxious and prevalent that people will demand lawmakers "do something". This is how highly specific new laws are born.

    I'm sort of ambivalent about that eventuality. Scalpers are really nothing but market-based leeches, and I have no sympathy if their efforts were blocked. They contribute nothing and suck away money from those willing to pay extra for their goods. But I'm also not really a fan of unneeded, populist laws to deal with short term issues. There are often unintended consequence, so we should be *really* sure we want to try to legislate a solution first.

    • It'd be nice if we could organize folks interested in high-demand items and get them to agree to not pay over retail for them. Make it cost the scalpers money for no return. Fuck 'em.

      The real problem is the rampant consumerism that convinces folks they HAVE to have it NOW! I get that people are impatient, but I don't get spending two to four times retail for an item just because you'd rather not wait for market saturation.

    • You don't need a law, you just need companies that are willing to go to a bit more trouble to block this practice.

      I know of some items (industrial machine components) where when you purchase the item from an authorized retailer, at the time of sale they link the purchaser's ID info to the warranty.
      The warranty is not transferable to any subsequent owners, even if the box is unopened or it is shipped directly to a third-party buyer.
      The result is that the resale market for new 'scalper' parts is pretty

    • Nah the UK will do nothing. They will propose a law that is so specific as to be completely irrelevant. It's pointless and distracting busy work hoping to get people to ignore the fact that they fucked up Brexit royally and everyone is about to be screwed.

      There's a lot of feel good laws the UK has proposed recently.

  • Simple solution (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Thursday December 17, 2020 @03:03PM (#60842130)

    People need to simply refuse to pay the exorbitant prices being charged by the lowlife num-nuts who are buying these things up and reselling them. Hit them in the wallet enough times, and they'll stop.

    But unless the demand is eliminated, these twits will always find a way around. It's like the so-called "war on drugs" - trying to solve the problem by hitting the supply side is doomed to fail.

    • People need to simply refuse to pay the exorbitant prices being charged by the lowlife num-nuts who are buying these things up and reselling them. Hit them in the wallet enough times, and they'll stop.

      But unless the demand is eliminated, these twits will always find a way around. It's like the so-called "war on drugs" - trying to solve the problem by hitting the supply side is doomed to fail.

      Sony just needs to sell "early access prerealease" units 2 months early and charge a premium for them. Sure its the real release but the people willing to pay 2-4 time the cost to a scalper will instead pay it to Sony the rest of the market will wait for the regular release and pay sticker price.

    • People need to simply refuse to pay the exorbitant prices

      Translation: Rich well of people need to pretend to be poor so the poor people can get a fair go.
      Value is based on what people are willing to pay. Those exorbitant prices are literally what the devices are valued at due to their short supply. Basic supply and demand rules apply, scalpers exist to make money.

      When has the idea of rich people not making use of their wealth to favour the poor ever been a viable suggestion in all of human history?

  • A console is not critical to anyoneâ(TM)s lives. If there is a market of people with too much expendable income, donâ(TM)t blame those who have ability and resources to leverage it. It is like the people who cry they canâ(TM)t get a pair of jordans because their mom wonâ(TM)t let wait all night outside the Foot Locker. It is not an injustice, it is just pitiful. Escobar was burying money in his backyard because the rich folks could not get enough cocaine. It was not his fault he had mone
    • Exactly. We are in the middle of a pestilence, with thousands dying each day and millions struggling to make ends meet. "Some rich first-world kids won't find a PS5 under the Christmas trees of their villas" is pretty low on my list of world problems.

  • ticket bots need to go maybe now is the time to make laws.
    So the 50% concerts does not sell out in 30sec with tickets now selling at face + $100's

    • The solution to concert tickets isn't banning bots, it's making bots unprofitable.

      The *easiest* solution is just for performers to offer more show dates, even if it means the final night's performance isn't a complete sell-out. Supply exceeds demand.

      A more complicated solution is to sell the tickets in a reverse auction. The first day they go on sale for $2000 per ticket. Each day the price drops inversely proportional to demand. The same people buying scalped tickets at inflated prices will just buy th

      • Stores and performers hesitate to charge super high prices for the first few performances or units sold because it tarnishes their image among the much larger number of less enthusiastic customers that they want to come after. Walmart's slogan is "always low prices." if you are shopping there and see something you want, it's pretty safe to go ahead and buy it without comparison shopping. It's not worth it to them to tarnish that simple effective message for a few extra dollars in the short term.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        I don't understand why performers just don't do more shows.

        Probably because tours are physically and mentally taxing as it is. There's only so many shows they can do. You seem to assume they are limited only by time. Meanwhile, the successful older acts have more money than they know how to spend...

      • an ticket lottery can work for events as well.

  • A Space Force member reportedly skipped class to get a PS5 but got demoted instead [theverge.com]:

    The Space Force, it seems, is not sympathetic to the mission that seems to have captured many across the US: getting a PS5. One of its members has reportedly been reprimanded and demoted for being 30 minutes late to physical training because he was trying to get one of the consoles, according to a post on the Air Force Facebook page.

    According to the letter, the unnamed airman texted his superior officer that he was going to be 30 minutes late to his fitness improvement program as he had been driving around to multiple Targets (the store) trying to buy a PS5. The airman then added “Yolo, PS5 > letters of discipline,” according to the letter of discipline.

    Perhaps his senior officer didn’t appreciate the flippancy. Perhaps showing up late was somewhat of a habit for the airman, which the second part of the letter seems to imply. Whatever it was, the move earned the airman a demotion from E-4 Senior Airman to E-3 Airman First Class.

    The post includes a redacted screenshot of the letter of reprimand.

  • It seems like there's an opportunity here. Overbuild, create enough units for the initial surge and sales through the next 18 months or so, and THEN release the product. Bots pick up the first shipment, and then find they're in competition with the second, unadvertised legitimate shipment. And for the manufacturer, $profit$.

    Eventually the scalpers have to sell for lower prices just to recoup costs. Bonus if the manufacturer includes unique features in the second or third shipment that weren't in the fir

    • Ya, lets invest possibly millions to ramp up production early so it can sit idle for the rest of the 5+ year production run. Makes perfect sense. You really think these companies don't have the people in China working on the lines 24/7?

      • Well, the alternate solution is for customers to not buy from scalpers, but I don't see that happening.

  • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • As long as a product is not discontinued, it should be illegal to sell for above MSRP, problem solved.

      I see what you mean, but black markets are usually illegal already.

  • I wish the link was to a programming site rather than the Washington Post. I'm not interested in scalping per se, I'm just interested how they are implemented. Does this use Selenium or APIs? Something else?

  • They should pass laws that shut down the practice of scalping (whether it be GPUs, game consoles, LEGO sets, concert tickets, sneakers or anything else). Make it fair for everyone by stopping people from buying up all the stock and creating the artificial shortage.

  • You could always just buy your kid a $10 Roblox card and call it good enough. They should already have a device like an iPad or laptop that plays all the Roblox games that their friends are playing. I gave Sony $300 for my Android phone in 2018 and $1300 for my Android TV in 2019. You'd think that those devices have good enough GPUs to play games and can be connected to game controllers... Why would I pay $500 more to buy an external GPU without its own display? My kids have laptops with RTX 2060 GPUs (the

  • I don't have a horse in this race. Don't want a PS5 at all. But reading all these posts, is there a reason someone can't create a bot to out bid all the other bids for a PS5 on a scalper's page and then cancel at the last minute (or something to that effect). If it's not illegal to run a scalper bot, I don't think it would be illegal to run a bid war scalper bot but with 1 extra step.

  • Brack sold all of his PS5s on eBay. “I don’t think they mind, to be honest,” he said.

    Just blows my mind on how people are.

  • No new Xbox for them, eh? ;)

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