Nintendo Sued by European Gamers Hampered by Broken Controllers (bloomberg.com) 39
Nintendo faces a complaint from BEUC, a European consumer group, over what it calls "systematic problems" with the controllers for the company's popular Switch games console. BEUC said it filed a complaint with the European Union and national consumer protection organizations after evidence from users showed that in 88% of cases, "the game controllers broke within the first two years." A report adds: The group said some 25,000 gamers and other consumers across Europe, including France, Belgium and the Netherlands, complained about a "recurring technical problem with Nintendo Switch controllers, commonly referred to as 'Joy-Con Drift,' according to a statement on Wednesday. The problem causes a glitch where characters can move within games without any input from the user.
Optical sensors (Score:1)
I wonder why no one decided to make some sort of optical sensors to detect stick movement. That could be encapsulated in a way that is immune to dust.
Re:Optical sensors (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not about dust this time. They're just fragile. The plastic inside permanently deforms under pressure. For the first time ever, the 3rd party controllers might be a better buy this time around. Check out HORI - the company that made the original NES Advantage. They still make officially licensed Nintendo Switch controllers.
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My Go-To for 3rd party controllers for Switch and PC is the 8bitdo SN30+ —looks just like an SNES controller, but with modern triggers and grips on it. Not only works with Switch, but PC and mobile as well. It has a removable rechargeable battery similar to an Xbox controller, but you can charge it via USB-C so there normally isn't a reason to remove it, but the option is there. (Can substitute regular alkalines, for example)
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Hmm, I was eyeing that one too. I did like the throw-back visual aesthetic. What type of range do you get on from them? My other complaint about the official Switch controllers is they have inferior range to the previous-gen Wii and Wii-U controllers.
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I was not aware that the problem was fragility of the components, thanks for pointing that out. I suppose that it is at least fixable as the sticks assembly is modular and may be replaced easily. Another option to 2rd party controllers is to use an USB dongle from 8bitdo that allows the use of other consoles controllers, currently I'm using a PS4 DualShock.
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The N64 used optical encoder wheels, basically the same mechanics as where used in all ball mice, just with a stick instead of a ball. The whole mechanism was however quite bulky. The old Microsoft Siderwinder flightsticks also used some form of optical tracking, though not sure on the mechanism. These days most of the higher end flight sticks use hall-effect sensors, which is also contact-less, even some game controllers use them now, e.g. WMR controller use them for the analogue trigger.
That said, there i
Re: Optical sensors (Score:2)
"there is nothing wrong with the old potentiometer based analog sticks"
False.
I have replaced several due to unmitigated jitter caused by center wear. What a PITA.
A necessary bit of info for Americans: (Score:4, Informative)
In the EU, all products are required, by law, to work for at least two years. (Obviously not food that natueally spoils, but you know which ones.)
Before 1 year, the burden of proof is on them. After 1 year, them burden of proof is on them.
This is a separate thing from any manufacturer guarantee. So even though some shops are actively lying about this, it applies to everything, even dollar store cables that die after the third rolling them up. Yes, you can bring them back until they. freakin. stop. selling. them. (Though of course they could just refuse to sell to you. And you could thenbring out the consumer protection big guns and sue them for deliberate fraud or something.)
I think 2 years is way too low for products like washing machines or cars or electronics, that are expected to last decades. Especially things with no moving parts. But that's the law.
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As a rule, if anything is going to break it will happen during the first year or two. That's the "break in" period when all the shiny new parts get put under stress. If they're going to break, that will be the time.
Five years is too long because by then the parts are getting worn. How do you determine a failure is the result of a manufacturing defect or simple wear and tea
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I think 2 years is way too low for products like washing machines or cars or electronics, that are expected to last decades. As a rule, if anything is going to break it will happen during the first year or two. That's the "break in" period when all the shiny new parts get put under stress. If they're going to break, that will be the time.
If that were the case the overwhelming majority of the time, then we would not even be here discussing this issue.
Five years is too long because by then the parts are getting worn. How do you determine a failure is the result of a manufacturing defect or simple wear and tear?
Simple; expected wear and tear. I just bought a calculator that was quite literally designed to be (accidentally) dropped (HP 12C). It came with a 1-year warranty, but you could extend it to two years only in countries that legally supported it. This is a device that has proven itself since inception (40 years ago) that it can last a hell of a lot longer than a year, but that seems to be the (c
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Five years is too long because by then the parts are getting worn. How do you determine a failure is the result of a manufacturing defect or simple wear and tear?
If it's something that is normally expected to last more than 10 years, it doesn't matter. If it wore and tore in 5 years it's either a design flaw or a manufacturing defect.
The only exception might be a device marketed for end consumer use that gets used commercially IF that use materially increases wear and tear (so not on a digital picture frame or audio player for examples). Any marketing claims of "heavy duty" or "commercial grade" would remove that exception.
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I seem to recall that when I bought a new washing machine and dryer a few years ago they actually came with a 10 year manufacturer guarantee from AEG. Perhaps this is one of those cases where the companies avoid getting regulations written down as long as they play nice?
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I'd also look at the fine print of those warranties: Generally speaking they often selectively cover only the stuff that isn't likely to break easily, but there are still a lot of routine maintenance parts that can give out long before that and cost you a maintenance call.
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Not really. A large portion is actually senseless price gouging. There's no rhyme or reason to the companies which do or don't dramatically mark up costs compared to the exchange rate. Many products are within a rounding error of each other after tax, many more can be pointlessly double the price. A large portion of complaints usually stem from those people who don't seem to understand that in the USA prices are listed pre-tax and in the EU they are with all charges included, and these charges can differ a
Correction on burden of proof: (Score:2)
Ater 1 year, the burden of proof is on YOU!
I had no coffee yet, when I wrote this. Stupid interational travel messing with my morning routine. (Yeah, Covid doesn't make it any better. But I got no choice.)
Re: Why isn't their an Europian competing console (Score:4, Informative)
Could you stop your ridiculous nationalism.
We don't give a crap about such nonsense. That is the whole point of the EU, which, as you know, are many big nations that could just as well go against each other, but pride themselves in having moved beyond that.
Nobody here cares. It is just not a thing to us.
Almost nobody in the US did either, until Trump.
Read my other comment.
This is a general law that applies to all products from all businesses, and simply says "Don't make crap products that fall apart in not even two years, or don't sell here!".
Why do their controllers fall apart after not even two years anyway? *That* is the issue. Keep your mental/social poison out of this, please. We are not enemies.
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I agree that such accusations of national favoritism should require stronger evidence, preferably statistical evidence.
That being said, I like how Europe at least sometimes cracks down on systemic problems. In the US, each individual consumer usually has to battle on their own, reinventing the legal wheel at their own expense.
Europe also tends to enforce and encourage standards, such as interchangeable charger plugs. This lowers prices and consumer choices. In general, Europe factors consumerism better.
Correction [Re: Why isn't their an Europian com (Score:1)
Correction: "This lowers prices and increases consumer choice."
You can sue for this? (Score:2)
It's pretty common. I bought a joystick replacement kit on Amazon for ~$15.
You get 'em, European consumer protection laws!
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Are you in the US? If so, you didn't need to buy anything. Nintendo USA is fixing this issue for free. They all fixed 4 of my left joycons (one that came with my launch day switch, one bought on launch day, and 2 bought later that year). No receipts required for any of it, no credit card security, no charge for shipping. They didn't even make me sit through a bunch of "try this" crap. I just explained the problem, they took my info, and emailed me a shipping label.
Though I will acknowledge that if you don't
Bad Design (Score:1)
A better design was the old N64 controllers that used a slotted optical wheel which an ir beam detected the movement. A newer non-contact method would have been to use a 3D magnetic hall sensor with a tiny magnet mounted to the botto
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I sent one in to Nintendo for a free repair and it started drifting again the first day I got it back. I'd rather fix it myself if sending it in means an extremely temporary fix.
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Have a good one
Two years? (Score:2)
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Similar contacts were in another failed electronic toy and I used those to replace the broken ones. They were cellophane taped into place at the factory.
When those contacts were new they made a nice click, when nearing the end it was obvious as the click wasn't quite right anymore.
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Two years seems like a long time to me. On the Atari 2600 joysticks, either the large bottom ring of the white plastic spine would snap, or the circuit board metal contact blisters would lose their spring -- usually before then.
A shitty half-century old hardware design prone to failure isn't exactly the metric we should be comparing anything to. This is exactly why Greed feels like Made in the USA is a waste of time and money.
Two years, isn't anywhere near long enough to force manufacturers to not purposely design and manufacture utter crap.
Only one problem (Score:3)
The analog drift is only one problem (and that one is fixed relatively easily). The real problem, which I've seen happen to multiple controllers, is the microswitch for the shoulder button breaks right off the circuit board. I've attempted to fix a couple, but that is only possible if you're lucky enough that the PCB traces remained on the board. In my case they broke off with the button.
It's a truly terrible design, because there is no mechanical stop or protection for the switch. The surface-mount PCB connection is all that holds that pressure, and that's why they break often.
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Surely someone could design a plastic part that you could 3D-print and insert in the controller to help hold that small PCB in place.