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Games

Lawmaker Proposing 'Grand Theft Auto' Ban Says Video Game Contributes To Carjackings (abc7.com) 329

Koreantoast writes: With the number of carjackings more than doubling in the city of Chicago during 2020, one lawmaker knows who to blame: the video game "Grand Theft Auto." According to Chicago ABC 7, Democratic State Representative Marcus Williams believes the video game is causing the rise in carjackings, stating that "Grand Theft Auto' and other violent video games are getting in the minds of our young people and perpetuating the normalcy of carjacking. Carjacking is not normal and carjacking must stop." He plans on introducing a bill to ban sales of the game in the state of Illinois.

Some are skeptical of Rep. Williams claims however. Columnist Joe Jurado of the Root points out that the franchise is hardly new and widely distributed, with the latest iteration, GTA V, released eight years ago and having sold 130 million copies. He adds that attempting to ban the game would be incredibly difficult writing, "Let me entertain this stupid-a** notion for a second. Say they're successful and get the game off store shelves in Illinois. What are you going to do about digital sales? You're telling me that the state of Illinois is willing to expend the time, money, and technical know-how to block the game off of PlayStation Network, Xbox Live, Epic Games, and the Rockstar storefront? I've worked for the state government, and I know damn well those Windows XP-using a**es ain't built for this life."

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Lawmaker Proposing 'Grand Theft Auto' Ban Says Video Game Contributes To Carjackings

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  • Typical (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:03PM (#61099618)
    Anything but holding responsible the people who are actually committing the violence.
    • Re:Typical (Score:5, Funny)

      by rogoshen1 ( 2922505 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:13PM (#61099652)

      that's one take.. but another is if they'd simply defund the police and replace them with 'de-escalation' personnel, most of these problems would go away.

      Or, realistically -- the person taking the car probably needs it more, and it makes them happier than the carjacking makes the previous owner unhappy. So overall happiness increases, and it's a net positive for the world.

      • What Apple did for phones? As in remote deactivation but also make them irreparable so that them pesky mechanics cant help you steal them either?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        another is if they'd simply defund the police and replace them with 'de-escalation' personnel, most of these problems would go away.

        The idea is that if when the carjackers were young and needed help they got it as opposed to asking police officers who only have arrest/cite/ignore powers to look into it, you could nip problems in the bud. I know that long term consequences are hard to imagine , but it seems pretty clear if a 10 year old keeps getting hassled by cops over petty shit, then he won't care if he

    • Anything but holding responsible the people who are actually committing the violence.

      Yeah. Instead of trying to catch criminals, let's just censor everything we don't like.

    • How so, are you implying they don't try to catch and prosecute carjackers? I call BS.
      • Re:Typical (Score:5, Informative)

        by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:52PM (#61099820)
        The law was changed five years ago so that juvenile carjackers aged 15 or older aren't automatically prosecuted in adult court [cwbchicago.com]. Since then, these violent criminals know they will get away without serious penalties and juvenile carjackings have gone thru the roof [chicagotribune.com].
        • Re:Typical (Score:4, Interesting)

          by ACMC1945 ( 6650264 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:35PM (#61099992)

          The law was changed five years ago so that juvenile carjackers aged 15 or older aren't automatically prosecuted in adult court [cwbchicago.com]. Since then, these violent criminals know they will get away without serious penalties and juvenile carjackings have gone thru the roof [chicagotribune.com].

          If they are under 18 at the time the crime was committed then not only should they not "automatically" be charged as an adult, there should be no mechanism to charge them as one. Society and the law has set a line of demarcation at 18, at least in the US. It's not complicated, one is either an adult or a minor. Now if you want to discuss adjusting the penalties for minors then that is a reasonable discussion to have but charging children whether they are 12 or 17.99 years old as adults is and will always be wrong.

          • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:54PM (#61100050)

            Wait... 18? Are you saying there's adults in the USA who are not allowed to drink?

            This isn't a question. It's a reflection of the fact that no we haven't drawing a single arbitrary line by which we define everything in the USA. The USA also has laws that demark people of 12 years old as having more power than someone at 11.99, and people of 21 years old as having more than someone of 20.99

            If there's something specific that affects people in a certain age band then it's reasonable to apply different set of rules to that age band, and a good point to charge someone the same as an adult for a car jacking would at the same time that person can hold their driver's license, which is also not at the age of 18.

          • Re:Typical (Score:5, Interesting)

            by PinkyGigglebrain ( 730753 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @03:41PM (#61100196)

            if we are talking about non-violent crimes I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately juveniles can, and sometimes do, commit premeditated murder and other crimes that show a depraved indifference to Human life. Putting them into juvenile hall for a few months is not going to have any effect on their mindset. There have been several cases over the years where children as young as 13 have been tried as adults, convicted and sentenced to life in prison due to the nature of their crime and their mindset.

            Carjacking is not someone breaking into another persons car, hot wiring it and driving off while the owner is away from the car. It is an assault on another person usually with some kind of weapon and/or threat of bodily harm. That is why it has a legal classification differing from normal car theft.

            Carjacking is when a person(s) takes the car after it has been started by either threatening the driver with a weapon or physically assaulting them to to get them out of the vehicle, or sometimes forcing the driver into the passenger seat and kidnapping them. If the person being kidnapped is lucky they will just get shoved out of the car at some later point and end up with nothing but bruises, but if the driver is a woman it might get a LOT worse for them.

            Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, you go out to your car, get in and start the car. Someone opens the door holding a knife and yells at you to get out of the car. You comply and they shove you to the ground and get into your car and drive off. Or worse, as soon as you release your seat belt they push you into the passenger seat at knife point and drive off with you huddled against the passenger door fearing for your life. Try and imagine the terror you would be feeling at that moment if you can.

            All that said, this proposed legislation is just another attempt by some idiot politician to grandstand in the press and show they are "tough on crime". He is probably up for re-election soon. And like most politicians he's going after something easy to get his free PR from the press. He can't go after guns, Chicago already has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the USA, and ironically it also has one of the highest gun homicide rates too, so he's going after GTA.

            If the "public servants" really cared about reducing violence they would push social programs that reduce poverty, improve education and job availability, and work to change the underlying culture that not only glorifies the "thug" lifestyle but teaches people that lethal force is an acceptable response to any conflict.

            I seem to remember CA or some other state trying to ban GTA or other video game awhile back, claiming it caused increased the risk to police officers or some such BS. That attempt failed then, and this one will fail now.

        • Re:Typical (Score:4, Informative)

          by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:36PM (#61100000)
          It was not "since then," as in when the law changed 5 years ago. In fact: "CPD knows carjacking is a recurring scourge. The number of vehicular hijackings surged several years ago. In response, police established a task force of local, state and federal law enforcement, which was credited with reducing incidents to a six-year low. Then task force members went off to deal with other crimes."

          The increases have been just this year, and not limited to Chicago:

          "...Chicago is neither the only nor the worst example of this disturbing crime trend. Minneapolis police report that carjackings there have shot up 537% this year. Carjacking calls to 911 in New Orleans are up 126%. Oakland police cite an increase of 38%. And while many police departments do not keep carjacking-specific numbers, instead classifying them as auto theft or armed robbery, crime experts like Chris Herrmann, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, say anecdotal reports of a carjacking surge are coming in from metropolitan areas around the country including Milwaukee, Louisville, Nashville and Kansas City. Data for auto theft is easier to come by and, according to Herrmann, the numbers show that crime is also spiking in many cities this year, including a rise of 68% in New York, 36% in Los Angeles and 34% in Philadelphia. But carjackings draw attention as the violent, potentially fatal version of auto theft."

          Trying to pin all that on the change of a law in Chicago 5 years ago doesn't make sense.

          • Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)

            by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @03:30PM (#61100164)
            Of course not. You will find similar stats in all inner city jurisdictions wherever there is refusal to harshly deal with violent underage offenders because "we can't throw anyone away." The leadership of these cities has decided to trade away the safety of its citizens so that no one under age 18 who commits a violent crime goes to jail for a long period of time or receives a harsh sentence. My guess is this is exactly what many of the citizens in these cities want -- at least until they become victims themselves.
          • by indytx ( 825419 )

            The increases have been just this year, and not limited to Chicago:

            "...Chicago is neither the only nor the worst example of this disturbing crime trend. Minneapolis police report that carjackings there have shot up 537% this year. Carjacking calls to 911 in New Orleans are up 126%. Oakland police cite an increase of 38%. And while many police departments do not keep carjacking-specific numbers, instead classifying them as auto theft or armed robbery, crime experts like Chris Herrmann, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, say anecdotal reports of a carjacking surge are coming in from metropolitan areas around the country including Milwaukee, Louisville, Nashville and Kansas City. Data for auto theft is easier to come by and, according to Herrmann, the numbers show that crime is also spiking in many cities this year, including a rise of 68% in New York, 36% in Los Angeles and 34% in Philadelphia. But carjackings draw attention as the violent, potentially fatal version of auto theft."

            Trying to pin all that on the change of a law in Chicago 5 years ago doesn't make sense.

            The explanation is really pretty simple: it's getting pretty hard for a petty criminal to hotwire a newer model car. That's it. Stolen car parts are big business, the pandemic has cut into the supply chain for replacement parts, and it's hard to steal a newer model car without a key if you don't have a tow truck.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

          Minors should literally never be tried as adults. They don't have the rights of an adult, giving them the responsibilities is wrong.

          • Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)

            by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @04:31PM (#61100392)
            Whether or not they are actually tried as adults is irrelevant. What is relevant is that violent criminals are being caught and quickly released with nothing keeping them or discouraging them from committing more crimes. Try them as juveniles if you want, but any jurisdiction that lets any violent criminal (regardless of age) back out on the street without very serious repercussions or restrictions on their behavior is ABSOLUTELY directly responsible for what happens after that.
      • How so, are you implying they don't try to catch and prosecute carjackers? I call BS.

        Really? You're calling BS on lawmakers who vote to send Americans to endless wars? You're calling BS on lawmakers who choose to throw Twitter shit at each other for political team points instead of doing their jobs and meeting in the center aisle to properly provide for millions of Americans put out of work by a pandemic, who after months of political stagnation, might be forced into a life of crime?

        Gee, I can't possibly think of any other external factors in America that would cause crime to rise in a maj

    • by larwe ( 858929 )
      This is quite clearly a publicity play. Even if this made it through the relevant legislative bodies, it would be crushed by First Amendment considerations immediately.
  • by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <slashdot@nOSpam.keirstead.org> on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:04PM (#61099624)

    As stupid as this proposed ban is, the author of this article does not seem to understand that it is Sony/Microsoft/Valve who have to comply with the ban. The state doesn't have to do anything other than pass the law and/or regulation. Sony/Microsoft/Valve need to figure out the 'how' - and if they can't, pay the fines.

    • That's correct, but then the issue does become Federal. It's not like the state can easily collect on those fines from out-of-state entities without the backing of Federal courts.

    • Sure, but how far do you take it? Are you going to hit Valve/Sony/MSFT for failing to block people who use VPNs or other means to hide their locations? Or just require them to do something superficial?
  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:04PM (#61099626) Homepage

    Both proposals have the following in common:

    1) 1% of becoming law
    2) 1% chance of eliminating ban target. (no GTA and no morons in congress.
    3) 1% chance of end goal being achieved (less car jacking and less bad laws)

    • You forgot a 0% chance that even if this ban passed, it has any affect. It's a ban on future sales, for the second best selling game of all time. There are already over 140 million copies in circulation. It could never sell another copy and virtually every one who wanted it could still play it.

  • by nucrash ( 549705 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:04PM (#61099628)

    JTFC, at least get the name of the representative right. If he says something stupid I want to know who to blame. Marcus Williams is a football player.

  • Doesn't have any particular problem with carjackings, AFAIK.
  • by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:08PM (#61099638)
    Who cares what this buffoon believes? Can he provide hard, independently-verifiable data to support such view? For, if he can't he'd better shut f**k up.
    • Re:Believes? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:18PM (#61099672) Journal
      I don't know whether or not you've realized this, but there are a staggering number of people out there that have very little interest in whether or not a story is true if they feel like it gets in the way of their own agenda.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      He's a lawmaker.. No matter how dumb is idea, no matter how little evidence for it, what he thinks matters.

    • I believe an increase in property crime is related to dire economic impact of the pandemic among our nations poorest with very little assistance from government compared to other first-world nations.

      But sure, blame a video game that's been out for decades now for short-term crime trends.

  • For such a conclusion to even *begin* to hold any validity, you would have to at an absolute minimum correlate the approximate date at which such incidents started having an increased rate of occurrence to when the software was released.

    The last version of GTA was 7 years ago.

    If carjackings have only doubled in 2020, there's more than likely some other cause.

  • by Salgak1 ( 20136 ) <salgak.speakeasy@net> on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:09PM (#61099644) Homepage

    Every few years there's some idiot blaming a game for a problem. I still remember the "Steam Tunnels" [geekandsundry.com] legends about playing D&D, and the Jack Chick tract [chick.com] against it. . .

  • Better fix (Score:5, Funny)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:14PM (#61099654)

    Just drive a stick shift [binderplanet.com].

  • by shadowrat ( 1069614 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:15PM (#61099660)
    What video game is contributing to stealing french bulldogs at gunpoint?
  • Lets get to the root of the problem, parents are NOT being held responsibility for the things their children do. Want to fix the issue, start putting parents in jail along with their children. We also need to enable parents to be parents, let them physically discipline their children.

    • pay jurys more as well so people don't do all kinds of stuff to get out of it.
      $25 an day is an joke

      • I don't think that's going to do it. My company will pay the employee the difference between the per-diem offered by the court and their normal pay for the day and we still get people asking their managers to sign waiver requests.
      • Not sure what that has to do with the matter of hand; but you are nevertheless correct. I'm perfectly willing to sit on a jury. But everyone else in the room, from the judge down to the bailiff and stenographer is paid for their work; and so should be the jurors; and no one serving should face financial loss or hardship. It'd be simplicity itself to implement fairly and impartially too; just have jurors submit a copy of their paystub or 1040 to the clerk at the end of the first day of trial, divide, and

    • Physical discipline does not work. It results in kids with chemical imbalances, triggering their behavior problems, being beat. I'm willing to bet you've read "To Train Up a Child"... This kind of thinking led to me being hit with a "paddle" (which today as an adult, I RECOGNIZE AS A CRICKET BAT!), "spanking" me with it for "biting another kid", which I absolutely did NOT do. But I was forced to admit to it at the Christian school I went to because if I didn't, I would "burn in hell for all eternity". S
      • I'm sorry you were falsely punished for biting another kid. I bet you learned how plausible deniability worked after that. I believe I'm a better person now because my dad did not hesitate to beat my ass when I was out of line. I still remember an incident from when I was 8 or 9, I tried to steal a candy bar from the grocery store after my parents wouldn't buy anything for me. I didn't get busted with it until I was in the car, I had opened it and they could smell it. My father took me back to the store and

    • Want to fix the issue, start putting parents in jail along with their children.

      A knee-jerk jackbooted authoritarian solution to a problem needs a good, jingoistic name. You could call it 'War on Bad Parenting'.

  • 1997 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:16PM (#61099666) Journal

    1997 is the year GTA was first released, but that's beside the point. We need a quick way to impeach officials who propose laws that are so blatantly Unconstitutional to somebody who managed to stay awake for even one day in civics class. Maybe that will help stop this shit. Real threats to their cushy jobs. Go home "law maker". You're drunk.

    • who propose laws that are so blatantly Unconstitutional

      Hi, foreigner here. As a matter of interest, what is it about this law that would be unconstitutional?

      • It would violate the right to freedom of expression, which has been found to be implied by freedom of speech.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:18PM (#61099670)
    to get in the national news"

    FTFY. Beto O'Rouke tried something like this when he was trying to get the presidential nomination from Biden (or more likely the VP slot), but he did it with gun control and it backfired spectacularly. Going after video games is safe enough.
  • Right (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tailhook ( 98486 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:19PM (#61099676)

    It's not the government created feral underclass of violent scofflaws. It's not the abuse and neutering of the Chicago police force. It's a video game!

  • They keep getting public attention. The only institution these people should see from the inside is a mental institution. Let them tilt at windmills from the safety of an asylum for the strong-willed of weak mind.

    • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

      The only institution these people should see from the inside is a mental institution.

      That is misguided. 'These people' are not crazy. They are smart and serving their self interests. No one knew the name Marcus Williams outside of Chicago prior to this. Now he has national profile. He's provided an outlet for anger over Chicago crime; one that his constituents are indeed stupid enough to believe, so he's done them a great service. Finally, Rockstar games must now bend the knee to Mr. Williams; perhaps employ a few of Mr. Williams relations in cushy no show jobs and ensure his campaign

  • If you are going to ban things that are full of illegal content, the bible gots to go.
    • Yes, the bibles have created a huge problem world wide for millennia! great point.

      That said, video game like GTA have been shown in the past to not be a contributing factor using accepted methods to study such things; HOWEVER, this does not mean that the same games, movies, etc. do not contribute significantly to a FUTURE group of children! The current generation of young adults can't tell fact from opinion and neither can the millennials! (I read an actual paper in an actual journal on this shift.) I wo

      • by JeffOwl ( 2858633 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:46PM (#61100026)
        The Bible, and other holy books, have NOT created a huge problem. The existence of written text isn't a problem. Idiots have created the problem. Idiots deciding to take them literally, idiots following those who spin the content to suit their own agenda, idiots who can't be bothered to look at the text critically and think for themselves.
      • (I read an actual paper in an actual journal on this shift.)

        I've seen multiple papers on the subject. Further papers also show that these same people construct for themselves extremely one-sided opinion bubbles in their quest to avoid the cognitive dissonance associated with their internal "facts" being proven wrong outside the bubble.

  • Some lawmakers, on both sides, really are idiots. This guy is a candidate for being as nutty as a Trump supporting member of the GOP

    Historically all a government ban on entertainment as accomplished is to make the thing being banned more enticing.
    • When has prohibition ever worked?

      or more pointedly, when will prohibition not backfire?

      Ban alcohol? Then only outlaws drink alcohol, and also, everyones an outlaw.
      Ban drugs? Yes tell us more about how your war on drugs is going.
      Ban guns? That very thing backfired on populations repeatedly in the 20th century, hundreds of millions dead, and from at least the 19th onward every major genocide included banning guns. Do you suppose the Uighur's can legally own guns right now? They are some of the people
  • Software authors should have the freedom to publish whatever software they wish, but clearly GTA5 threatens our safety and so should not enjoy first amendment protections. Also, we should ban hatecode that enables racists and fascists to engage in terrorism such as unauthorized or unbreakable encryption software.
  • Make Hollywood illegal since they make all those horror films full of murder, dismemberment and cannibalism.

  • by Tulsa_Time ( 2430696 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @01:55PM (#61099828)

    Fixed it for you.

    Funny when there is an R involved... its the first word in the Headline.

  • stating that "Grand Theft Auto' and other violent video games are getting in the minds of our young people and perpetuating the normalcy of carjacking. Carjacking is not normal and carjacking must stop.

    No, it's because glamorizing criminality is normal among young urban blacks. It's in their music, movies, everything. Being an "authentic black" is being an aggressive, in-your-face, not going to take shit off of no white or asian man.

    You know what "being white" actually is? Being normal in most non-white ind

    • by cusco ( 717999 )

      Careful, start denigrating their culture and you open up the even more toxic redneck for criticism, and those MFs will invade your work place and try to hang you.

  • Like maybe...

    * Poverty rates
    * Unemployment rates
    * Local education attainment

    Hell, why not just ask people convicted of carjacking how they got the idea and will to make the attempt?

  • I never connected these together before, but ever since World of Tanks was released there's been a 500% increase in raging tank battles across my town!

  • by ytene ( 4376651 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:10PM (#61099900)
    It's difficult to know where to begin...

    1. In the second linked article, Democratic State Rep. Marcus Evans points at "Grand Theft Auto," as being the cause of car-related crime, but cites not one single, solitary piece of evidence in support of his case.

    2. The first article does, however, does note that the number of reported car-jackings in 2020 more than doubled the 2019 reported total. Yet the most recent instalment in the series, which I think was Grand Theft Auto V, was released in 2013, 7 years after the period in which the crimes are reported to have doubled. Where's the correlation? Where's the causation? Does this representative have the first clue how to use evidence to support his proposals? Does he care?

    3. The logic exercise that Evans has adopted here - that a stylised, fictional and game-based representation of an aspect of the real world is somehow causing citizens to suddenly turn to a life of crime - would be something the representative might like to consider more carefully:-

    i. How many games/television programs/films depict gun violence? Should all those be immediately banned? Maybe it would just be easier to outlaw civilian use of firearms completely?
    ii. What about games/television programs/films that depict crooked politicians "on the take" from criminals and gangsters? Maybe we should enact much stricter laws over the needed transparency of everyone elected to public office, hmm?
    iii. Hmm... Let's see - people use telephones to make threatening calls, to enact confidence tricks and steal millions of dollars. Lets outlaw all phones, too.
    iv. And people - all sorts of people - are caught speeding in cars or driving recklessly every day. Clearly the car is just too dangerous to be left in the hands of mere mortals. Obviously all personally-owned transport should be banned, right?

    What else? If we all chip in an idea or two, I'm pretty sure that we'll soon have enough criminality to shut down western civilisation as we know it. What's next: book burning?
  • by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:28PM (#61099968)

    GTA was around over a decade ago, so Chicago would have to go back at least a decade in their stats to prove anything. Unemployment went up, unemployed people have a lot of time on their hands with which to commit crime.

  • The next Grand Theft Auto needs to be Chicago and they need to get the roads right.

  • One of the most popular tactics for politicians is to attack inanimate objects and blame them, rather than people, and another related tactic is to propose and/or implement more rules for people who are already obeying the existing rules rather than going after the "bad actors".

    We see both things at play here:

    The same politicians who let violent criminals out of jail, or refuse to prosecute them in the first place, want to blame a THING (usually it's a gun, but here it's a game) and then remove rights from

  • Anything of note happen in 2020? It's weird that carjackings spiked in a perfectly average year - must be the seven year old GTA game that contributed!

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