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XBox (Games) Microsoft

Fortnite Isn't on Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming Service Because Epic Won't Allow It (theverge.com) 47

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Epic Games is holding back Fortnite from being available on Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming (xCloud) service, according to a new deposition made public as part of the Epic case against Apple. From a report: The Fortnite developer views Microsoft's xCloud service as competition to its PC offerings, and the company is deliberately not offering Fortnite on xCloud as a result. Joe Kreiner, Epic's vice president of business development, was questioned over why Fortnite isn't available on xCloud, and confirmed it was a deliberate choice. "We viewed Microsoft's efforts with xCloud to be competitive with our PC offerings," says Kreiner in the deposition. The court document makes it appear like Kreiner may go on to explain why, but the next part of the questioning has been redacted.
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Fortnite Isn't on Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming Service Because Epic Won't Allow It More

Fortnite Isn't on Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming Service Because Epic Won't Allow It

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  • The real reason (Score:4, Insightful)

    by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @10:48PM (#61326386)

    Epic Games partnered with Nvidia last year to launch Fortnite on GeForce Now and has helped Nvidia offer a number of other games from its PC game store on the Nvidia cloud gaming service, where all of the revenue from the original game’s purchase or any in-app purchases goes back to Epic rather than Nvidia. As far as Epic is concerned, the game is simply running on a PC.

    Yeah. Epic is allergic to other storefronts taking a cut of their profit. Obviously if that's the hill they want to die on, more power to them. I mean, if I open a store in a mall I owe rent to the property holder and if I don't like that idea, I need to have my own property. But I think if Epic really wants to stay the course on this, they're going to need to start easing up on the reliance on Nvidia to host them and host themselves. At some point someone is going to have the upper hand there and since Nvidia has the hardware, I feel they're more likely to pull a rug than Epic.

    However, Epic being greedy bastards or not, I leave as a subject for everyone else to debate.

    • However, Epic being greedy bastards or not, I leave as a subject for everyone else to debate.

      Little debate:
      Company = greedy by definition.
      Competing by attempting to force users to use to use their platform by paying for 3rd party exclusives of popular franchises rather than by competing on features = bastards by definition.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fazig ( 2909523 )
        Epic didn't force companies to make their products and services Epic store exclusive at gunpoint.
        They offered money and a contract. And such a contract can't happen if one party doesn't agree to the terms.

        The fact that Psyonix took Epic's money and made the cherished Rocket League an Epic exclusive also means that Psyonix apparently gives a shit about their Linux customers.

        • Epic didn't force companies to make their products and services Epic store exclusive at gunpoint.

          Ahh yes. It's the other company's fault that a loaded dickwod entered the industry and decided to throw money at disenfranchising gamers. Evil evil other companies. Epic good. Epic save gaming. All hail Epic, and damn those companies who dare take Epic money.

          The fact that Psyonix took Epic's money and made the cherished Rocket League an Epic exclusive also means that Psyonix apparently gives a shit about their Linux customers.

          Look in your rush to be a corporate apologist you wrote a sentence that made absolutely zero sense considering that Psyonix didn't give a shit that Linux users got screwed.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by fazig ( 2909523 )
            I'm saying that it takes two. That's how contracts work.
            Epic makes an 'indecent proposal' and others agree to it. That's it.

            I used the Rocket League example because I knew that would get under your skin. You're not being rational.
    • Isnt it free to play and you only use v-bucks to buy outfits and shit?
    • GeForce Now customers are the one paying for the hardware that is hosting fortnite on nvidia

  • Who (Score:3)

    by oh-dark-thirty ( 1648133 ) on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @11:17PM (#61326428)

    gives a shit?

  • All that bloviating about Apple... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sethmeisterg ( 603174 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:41AM (#61326600)
    ...and they pull similar shit when their own IP is on the line. Amazing.

    • I do not see how it is similar. Epic wants to open a store on iOS, but Apple will not let them. How is this similar to not offering a product through a particular store? Epic is claiming Apple is abusing their power as an OS vendor to prevent competition in the iOS software market. Lots of products from lots of companies are not sold at every possible store. This is really common.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @02:47AM (#61326764)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Denying imessage on other platforms was stupid. Its not like its the holy grail of smartphone features. It does help when using messaging with other iphone users to be able to send more content and not deal with segmentation due to limits of SMS. Its annoying I cant send someone a 1 page pdf on android. A pdf isnt much more than a postscript image file. If anything, allowing others to access the imessage network only increases the likelihood to drive more sales.
      • The similarity: Both Apple and Epic want to do what _they_ want with their property, not what someone else wants. And Epic just made clear that they think thatâ(TM)s the way it should be.

  • Terrible phrasing (Score:3)

    by El_Muerte_TDS ( 592157 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @01:31AM (#61326660) Homepage

    Fortnite isn't on xCloud because Epic doesn't want to put it there. Fortnite isn't on Stadia, GOG, itch.io, Amazon AppStore. It's up to Epic in which stores/app-launchers in wants to put Fortnite.

    • Re: Terrible phrasing (Score:4, Insightful)

      by gnasher719 ( 869701 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @03:14AM (#61326824)
      Just as it is entirely up to apple what AppStores they allow on iOS.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Whibla ( 210729 )

        Fortnite isn't on xCloud because Epic doesn't want to put it there. Fortnite isn't on Stadia, GOG, itch.io, Amazon AppStore. It's up to Epic in which stores/app-launchers in wants to put Fortnite.

        Just as it is entirely up to apple what AppStores they allow on iOS.

        The two situations are not the same.

        Epic makes Fortnite. Epic decides not to sell Fortnite in particular stores. The equivalent for iOS is: Apple makes iOS. Apple decides not to sell iOS on PC's.

        This is perfectly well and good, and is the situation as currently stands.

        If we now start with your statement however:

        Apple makes iOS. It's up to Apple what AppStores they allow on iOS. An equivalent statement might be: Microsoft makes Windows. It's up to Microsoft to decide which internet browsers they allow on Win

        • And your second statement is a false equivalence. Particularly Apple controls the App Store; Apple does not control what iOS programs I programmed into my own phone or Mac. However if I want to use Apple's store I have to abide by their rules. Also the point you missed is that Epic found the situation acceptable for years. What changed by Apple? Nothing. Epic decided they wanted more money.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Whibla ( 210729 )

            Apple does not control what iOS programs I programmed into my own phone or Mac.

            I didn't realise we were talking about what programs we can personally create on our own computers. I thought the debate was about the options and sales channels that are available to me so that I can buy programs that someone else has created. (Well, strictly, it's about the options and sales channels that are available to the vendors so they can sell their products to others, but it amounts to the same thing.)

            However if I want to use Apple's store I have to abide by their rules. Also the point you missed is that Epic found the situation acceptable for years. What changed by Apple? Nothing. Epic decided they wanted more money.

            All true, but this glosses over their complaint, and the greater issue.

            Can someone else create a

            • And you have missed the larger point then; your and Epic's argument is that no walled gardens should exist: Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple, etc. This includes Epic's store as their walled garden exists by exclusive deals. Epic's argument leads to courts deciding against their existence.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Whibla ( 210729 )

                And you have missed the larger point then; your and Epic's argument is...

                My argument was that the OP was creating and using a false equivalence to support their argument.

                You are doing the same thing.

                If Apple want to only sell their phones through Apple stores I'd have no problem. After all, their phones are the product they are making. If a software vendor wants to only sell their product via a particular route that's their choice. There's no contradiction in these statements.

                This includes Epic's store as their walled garden exists by exclusive deals.

                As a software developer, if you decide to sell via Epic's store that's your choice. If you don't like th

                • As a software developer, if you decide to sell via Epic's store that's your choice. If you don't like their terms, i.e. exclusivity, then you are free not to sell via their store. Other routes exist for you to sell your software to computer users.

                  Again you missed the point: No one is saying that as a software developer you cannot choose Epic or any store. But your argument and Epic's is that you can force any store to sell your software under your terms. And Epic is also saying they can dictate the terms in their store to other developers while at the same time dictating what terms Apple and Google must follow with them as a developer. You are advocating for hypocrisy.

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by Whibla ( 210729 )

                    Again you missed the point: No one is saying that as a software developer you cannot choose Epic or any store. But your argument and Epic's is that you can force any store to sell your software under your terms. And Epic is also saying they can dictate the terms in their store to other developers while at the same time dictating what terms Apple and Google must follow with them as a developer. You are advocating for hypocrisy.

                    No, you're misunderstanding my point (I have no great insight into exactly what Epic's argument is). If the Apple Store doesn't want to sell my software that's their choice, no problem. If I don't want to sell my software at the Apple Store, because of the terms they offer, that's my choice, no problem.

                    If Apple wants to limit the sale of software on the computers they make, such that it can only be purchased via their store, that is a problem, because once sold they no longer own those computers. Users, the

                    • No, you're misunderstanding my point (I have no great insight into exactly what Epic's argument is).

                      Then why are you commenting on what you do not know about? I am telling you what Epic's argument is. This is their argument: Apple should be forced to sell Fortnite under Epic's terms including what percentage Apple takes; however, Epic can enforce whatever rules they want in their store. Also Epic can make exclusive deals with developers that prohibits other stores those developers can use.

                      If the Apple Store doesn't want to sell my software that's their choice, no problem. If I don't want to sell my software at the Apple Store, because of the terms they offer, that's my choice, no problem.

                      This has been the situation the entire time, and no one is arguing with you about it. Epic seems to think they can dic

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Whibla ( 210729 )

                      Then why are you commenting on what you do not know about?

                      *Sigh*

                      I am aware of the basic nature of their complaint. I don't think that qualifies as "great insight". More to the point, that's not the issue I've been trying to debate.

                      Let's go right back to the beginning, when I first posted, shall we?

                      Fortnite isn't on xCloud because Epic doesn't want to put it there. Fortnite isn't on Stadia, GOG, itch.io, Amazon AppStore. It's up to Epic in which stores/app-launchers in wants to put Fortnite.

                      Just as it is entirely up to apple what AppStores they allow on iOS.

                      My original contention was that these two statements are not equivalent. Moreover, depending on the outcome of Epic's case against Apple, legal precedent might be set that will adversely affect all software vendors and computer users in future. I find it strange that hav

                    • Then why are you commenting on what you do not know about?

                      *Sigh*

                      I am aware of the basic nature of their complaint. I don't think that qualifies as "great insight". More to the point, that's not the issue I've been trying to debate.

                      Let's go right back to the beginning, when I first posted, shall we?

                      Fortnite isn't on xCloud because Epic doesn't want to put it there. Fortnite isn't on Stadia, GOG, itch.io, Amazon AppStore. It's up to Epic in which stores/app-launchers in wants to put Fortnite.

                      Just as it is entirely up to apple what AppStores they allow on iOS.

                      My original contention was that these two statements are not equivalent. Moreover, depending on the outcome of Epic's case against Apple, legal precedent might be set that will adversely affect all software vendors and computer users in future. I find it strange that haven't acknowledged this, and that it seemingly doesn't trouble you.

                      Walled gardens have existed long before Apple

                      If you say so. Just for the record though, please name one other walled garden of the same nature.

                      Users, the owners of the computers, should be able to buy software from whichever store they choose, and not be artificially or unfairly limited.

                      Again, Epic limits not only software is in their store, Epic makes exclusive deals so that developers cannot sell in other stores.

                      If I had inserted the word "specific" in between the words "buy" and "software" in the line above your answer would make sense as a counter argument. To be clear I am not defending Epic here. I've already said above, in this thread, that I don't think much of them as a company. However the two situations are not the same. There are other stores I can buy software from that are not Epic's. There are other stores that I can sell software via that are not Epic's. Sure I might not be able to buy a specific piece of software unless I go to a specific store, but then, venturing back to meatspace for a moment, I never go into a hardware store expecting to be able to buy an apple, nor a greengrocers to buy a fridge. Furthermore, if I don't like the selection at one greengrocers I can go to another shop that sells fruit and veg. It is this 'marketplace', transferred to the virtual, that I am advocating for.

                      When it comes to Apple, since they do not allow sideloading of apps, there is only one store I can buy from, Apple's. That's bad enough, but it gets worse. If the software I've purchased allows in-app purchases they too must go though Apple's store. This is, to my mind anyway, an unfair restriction of trade.

                      Making the issue about Epic's complaint, specifically, or their original actions, or their store, is to ignore this last point, to not see the 'big picture', which is slightly ironic since that's what you keep accusing me of. Trust me, I do see the big picture (I think...).

                      Why is this so hard for you to understand?

                      I understand the situation, I just disagree with your (and the poster's I replied to) characterisation of it.

                      Well, time will tell. Epic have already had their case against Apple in the UK dismissed in the UK by the Competition Authority, so clearly my beliefs and concerns are not shared by them. Or, it appears, you.

                      Never mind. I still enjoyed the discussion.

                      I am aware of the basic nature of their complaint. I don't think that qualifies as "great insight". More to the point, that's not the issue I've been trying to debate

                      Let me see if I understand you. You didn't know Epic's argument but you made argument after argument over what YOU didn't know. Do I understand your point?

                      Let's go right back to the beginning, when I first posted, shall we? Fortnite isn't on xCloud because Epic doesn't want to put it there. Fortnite isn't on Stadia, GOG, itch.io, Amazon AppStore. It's up to Epic in which stores/app-launchers in wants to put Fortnite.

                      What part of Epic was suspended from Apple and Google because they chose to violate contracts that existed for years is unclear to you? To say they are not on those stores because they do not want to be is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.

                      My original contention was that these two statements are not equivalent. Moreover, depending on the outcome of Epic's case against Apple, legal precedent might be set that will adversely affect all software vendors and computer users in future. I find it strange that haven't acknowledged this, and that it seemingly doesn't trouble you.

                      I find it strange you do not understand the full nature of Epic's hypocrisy which you still have not addres

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Whibla ( 210729 )

                      Let me see if I understand you. You didn't know Epic's argument but you made argument after argument over what YOU didn't know. Do I understand your point?

                      Unsurprisingly, no. I know what Epic's complaint is. I do not, however, know how much Epic sells (or sold) Fortnight for. I do not know how much of their revenue comes from sales of the game, and how much comes from selling additional in game content, e.g. dances / weapons etc. I do not know what they consider to be a reasonable return for their business, nor how much their 'unit cost' is. Like I said, "no great insight".

                      Let's go right back to the beginning, when I first posted, shall we? Fortnite isn't on xCloud because Epic doesn't want to put it there. Fortnite isn't on Stadia, GOG, itch.io, Amazon AppStore. It's up to Epic in which stores/app-launchers in wants to put Fortnite.

                      What part of Epic was suspended from Apple and Google because they chose to violate contracts that existed for years is unclear to you? To say they are not on those stores because they do not want to be is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.

                      Since I didn't say that (try to notice who's posted what, if you're going to imply peop

    • Not entirely correct. Fortnite is not on Microsoft's Cloud gaming by choice. Fortnite is no longer on Google and Apple because Epic decided they wanted to ignore contracts they signed with both stores and was removed.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rhipf ( 525263 )

        Fortnite is no longer on Google and Apple because Epic decided they wanted to ignore contracts they signed with both stores and was removed.

        So basically Fortnite isn't on Google and Apple by choice (Epic's choice to not abide by the terms of Apple and/or Google).

  • Apple will be very interested (Score:3)

    by gnasher719 ( 869701 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @03:09AM (#61326804)
    This sounds like a very anti-competitive move to me. And Iâ(TM)d like to see Epicâ(TM)s argument why Apple should be forced by a court to allow them on the AppStore when Epic itself doesnâ(TM)t want to be on the Xbox store.

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