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How a Dream Job Streaming on Twitch Can Become a Burnout Nightmare (theguardian.com) 136

"Streamers are not really known for hard partying..." writes the Guardian's videogames editor, after meeting the up-and-coming stars of Twitch.

"I was instead astonished — and, honestly, worried — by how hard they worked." The woman sitting next to me told me that she streams for eight to 10 hours every day, and when she wasn't live she was curating her social media, responding to fans, scouting for brand partnerships or collaborations with other streamers; throughout our conversation she was visibly resisting the impulse to check her phone, where new stats and fan comments and potential opportunities were presumably stacking up. I asked what she does for fun and she seemed genuinely confused by the question.

Playing video games for an audience for a living sounds like fun — and hell, there are many worse jobs out there — but it is also an ultra-competitive profession that attracts millions of aspiring kids with limitless energy and absolutely no concept of work-life balance. It involves extreme hours and intense pressure to be constantly available to the audience of viewers on whom they depend. And according to recently leaked Twitch data, the top 1% of streamers on its platform received more than half of the $889m (£660m) it paid out to creators last year; three quarters of the rest made $120 (£89) or less. Millions made nothing at all.

I was not surprised, over the following years, to read story after story about these energetic young people — with what must have seemed like the best job in the world — burning out. When you are broadcasting yourself so much of the time, when your hobby becomes your job and your job becomes your hobby, and when your personality becomes your brand and your brand becomes your personality, what does life offline look like for you? Who are you when the camera is off? The fact is that, especially for up-and-coming streamers trying to make it in the crowded world of playing video games on the internet, the camera is almost never off. Sticking to a regular schedule is the best way to build an audience on Twitch, and those schedules regularly involve at least eight hours of continuous streaming, five days a week or more... The reasons for these ultra-demanding hours are simple: the more you broadcast, the greater your chances of being featured on Twitch's homepage, the more followers you accrue, and the more money you might eventually make.

The article acknowledges that among Twitch streamers, "tens of thousands of creators make at least a livable wage.

"It is no wonder, then, that many streamers end up obsessed with the numbers and graphs and invisible algorithms that determine their fate."
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How a Dream Job Streaming on Twitch Can Become a Burnout Nightmare

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  • Cry me a river (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:40AM (#62029139) Homepage

    Some narcissistic publicity seeking egotists get burnout doing their non-job. Weather follows...

    Here's an idea - why don't they quit and go do something useful instead. Otherwise give the whining a rest.

    • Re:Cry me a river (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @04:20AM (#62029179) Homepage Journal

      Twitch has some great content creators. Narcissism is just your way of dismissing what the kids are into, but I enjoy a few different streamers who don't appear to be self obsessed at all.

      My favourite is The Beast, who is the least beastly guy you will ever meet. He plays a lot of Mario Marker, and is also currently beating every N64 game ever released. I mostly watch highlights on YouTube rather than live streams (due to timezone differences). He's an amusing guy and sometimes you get comedy gold from his steams like this amazing ninja Bowser: https://youtu.be/bIYmg5i9n9g?t... [youtu.be]

      If you think there's something wrong with that then presumably you also have an issue with people who watch sports, and consider all the players to be narcissistic publicity seeking egotists too.

      • Re:Cry me a river (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @09:11AM (#62029569) Journal

        My favourite is The Beast, who is the least beastly guy you will ever meet. He plays a lot of Mario Marker, and is also currently beating every N64 game ever released. I mostly watch highlights on YouTube rather than live streams (due to timezone differences). He's an amusing guy and sometimes you get comedy gold from his steams like this amazing ninja Bowser: https://youtu.be/bIYmg5i9n9g?t [youtu.be]... [youtu.be]

        I watched a few minutes--genuinely asking, what's the comedy gold? I think I missed it.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The Beast needs a key to exit the room with the big Bowser and other enemies. He manages to get one and think's he's home free, but the door is being crowded by Bowser so he needs to lure Bowser away to avoid being killed as he tries to go through it.

          Bowser seems to have other ideas though. He leaps towards the player who is in the clown car. The Beast thinks he's defeated him, because Bowser will surely fall into the lava. But Bowser doesn't fall, and The Beast is up against the wall, so he is forced to ju

          • Hah, it's always so interesting to me what invariably happens when sub-cultures develop into highly dedicated levels where one has to have a great deal of insider knowledge or experience to "get it." I was completely oblivious to all of this.

            I remember in highschool band playing some, as they called it, "avant guarde" compositions. Many of these composers made the comparison that certain visual artforms are widely understood to not be accessible to the average joe, but they were instead painted for experts

      • I'm rather enjoying Decino's videos. He does videos of DooM, usually somewhat modern levels played on a source port (PRBoom+ for example). He has a rather nice, calming manner as he laconically gives his opinions on the level design, artwork, fight setup and so on. Also sometimes does code walkthroughs for things like auto aim, the BFG9000, the RNG and so on. There's no screaming obscenities and racial slurs at the microphone that one may associate with gaming streamers.

        Seems like the accusations of narciss

      • But to make any amount of money, you need to be doing this "dream job" constantly. Not just tuesday and wednesday so that you have something to show on saturday. But every day, morning and night. That turns the dream job into a mundane grind. I don't know about twitch, but I am amazed that on youtube that some of these guys, the interesting ones, have a regular show every single day, plus live streams, plus videos about stuff outside of their main content ("cooking recipes from games with my girlfriend

    • Re: Cry me a river (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @04:33AM (#62029193)

      Unless they are really lucky narcissism and egotism doesn't seem to be a good way to build an audience in a medium with a significant amount of two way communication.

      Seems more suited character traits for traditional media.

    • Poor little rich snow flakes. Sniff.
    • I hear you but I also see that these people entertain others and get paid for it in return, I find it comparable to being a TV game show host, except a streamer also takes care of part of the production. Ultimately it makes sense that entertainers get paid to entertain (even though this kind of entertainment really isn't my cup of tea, or yours presumably), I think a big issue here is that there is a lot of competition among entertainers but the audience is finite and focusing on a few stars. This is also a

      • This is true in all forms of entertainment. Pre-pandemic there wasn't a waiter in New York City who wasn't an aspiring actor just waiting for their big break.
        • I don't think all of these doing video wanted to be an actor, performance artist, or even artist. Many probably just like playing games and thought maybe they can get some extra money from it like some of those they see online. Then it snowballs and instead of playing games for fun they're doing live streams and begging for donations.

          • I think that you are mostly correct. The original high-popularity streamers were just showing themselves doing something they really liked. And that was popular because it's fun to watch people doing something they like especially if its also something you like and they are better at it. And those streamers surprisingly made money. And then there was a goldrush with all of its pitfalls.
    • Re:Cry me a river (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @05:39AM (#62029257)

      Some narcissistic publicity seeking egotists get burnout doing their non-job. Weather follows...

      Here's an idea - why don't they quit and go do something useful instead. Otherwise give the whining a rest.

      Now this is an ironic post if I've ever seen one.

    • Re: Cry me a river (Score:4, Interesting)

      by lucasnate1 ( 4682951 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @06:09AM (#62029285) Homepage

      I find it amusing how engineers, whose code is mostly discarded away and barely used, criticize streamers for not contributing to society.

      I bet many of those streamers made more people happy than at least half of your code did.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Because coders are very smart. We code to entertain people with enough money to pay us to code and make presentations about how our code is going to disrupt markets.
      • You misunderstand the field. "Happiness" is not in an engineers job description.

        Engineers make sure that the bridges don't collapse and the planes aren't crashing out of the sky. We make sure the computers/phones/network that you use function properly and are reliable. We make sure that the oil gets refined into gasoline properly, and that the equipment that processes your food doesn't have any unwanted nooks and crannies that would harbor any e coli that would seriously ruin your streaming weekend. We
      • Re: Cry me a river (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:06PM (#62030443)

        I've worked on business software (aka, enterprise before that term was used) and was seriously unhappy with it. The idea that if someone nuked the building that no one would even care that the company and its products were no more. Later I worked on medical devices and other devices that did good things for a lot of people. And stuff in between. So there's a range of how much is contributed. Just glad I'm not writing code to distribute advertisements more effectively.

    • Re:Cry me a river (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GuB-42 ( 2483988 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @06:37AM (#62029315)

      Now tell that to the millions of people working in the media/entertainment industry, professional athletes too.

      Streamers have a useful job, that is to entertain people watching their stream. No, it is not "essential" in the sense that you don't need streamers to survive, but society always had entertainers. And who care if they are "narcissistic publicity seeking egotists" (something you assume they are). If they are doing a good job entertaining their audience, they deserve a good life.

      If people are willing to pay you, you are doing a useful job.

      • Re:Cry me a river (Score:5, Insightful)

        by nagora ( 177841 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @06:56AM (#62029343)

        If they are doing a good job entertaining their audience, they deserve a good life.

        Do they (automatically)?

        If people are willing to pay you, you are doing a useful job.

        Are you (automatically)?

        Is a drug pusher doing a useful job because their addicts are willing to pay them? Does a racist comedian deserve a good life if they gain an audience? How about cult leaders?

        Your statements are over-general and lack the wider context of what effect the "entertainment" has on its audience, and on the entertainers.

        • Is a drug pusher doing a useful job because their addicts are willing to pay them?

          I dunno - ask all the states who are legalizing MJ. Ask all the cool Slashdotters who are in favor of that.

          Does a racist comedian deserve a good life if they gain an audience? How about cult leaders?

          Does a porn actor?

          "But ... but ... I was using examples of things that I don't like!"

          You begin to see the problem with your line of thinking ...

          • by nagora ( 177841 )

            "But ... but ... I was using examples of things that I don't like!"

            You begin to see the problem with your line of thinking ...

            I think you're doing a grand job of making my point.

        • If people are willing to pay you, you are doing a useful job.

          Are you (automatically)?

          Yes, by definition. If someone pays you for something they find it useful.

          Is a drug pusher doing a useful job because their addicts are willing to pay them?

          Ask the addict. They would say yes. Maybe ask society as well. Have you ever conversed with someone going through uncontrolled withdrawal? Depending on what they were on they may be outright dangerous so the drug pusher may not just be useful to the addict, but also indirectly benefit your personal safety.

          Does a racist comedian deserve a good life if they gain an audience?

          Yes, why not? I think they are outright cunts but I certainly do not wish poorly on them for merely making a joke that people find

          • by nagora ( 177841 )

            If someone provides a service that other people find valuable who are you to object, and if someone works for the benefit of others who are you to deny them a living?

            Inane shite. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice too?

            No one died and made you a dictator.

            That's my point. You don't get to decide that everything is worthwhile just because money changed hands. It's a democracy and if you want to make the argument you are making that's find and dandy. But you're not automatically right, nor are your opinions automatically acceptable just because you have them.

            If you want, you can always go live on an island on your own somewhere where you can have the only vote. Otherwise, you need to learn to live with

        • My cult leader says you need more enlightenment. Let me send you some pamphlets.

        • If people are willing to pay you, you are doing a useful job.

          Are you (automatically)?

          Assuming people are paying you willingly, no coercion and no fraud, you're are a job that is useful to them, by definition.

          Whether it's useful to society in some broader sense, maybe, maybe not. Trying to figure out what's good and bad for society is tricky and full of pitfalls. You mention the example of a drug dealer because you apparently thing that what they do is bad for society... but I'd contend that it appears that much of the trouble with drugs is caused by trying to make them illegal. Are the v

      • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        You seem to think I have any more tolerance of whining luvvies or people who run in circles for a living? If someone chose a career - as opposed to a no choice job just to pay the rent - then they need to either get on with it or STFU and do something else.

        • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

          I have tolerance and even respect for streamers (and youtubers, and "influencers" of all kinds) because I wouldn't be able to do their job. Not only I don't have the necessary skills, but it would be too stressful for me.

          It is an extremely competitive market, and you are at the whims of an algorithm no one understands. Some people like being the center of attention, but you don't always get attention from the right people, harassment is frequent. It is more of a trap than a real career choice. So yeah, it i

          • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

            "no one should complain about their working conditions"

            False equivalence. Those of us who work for or at a 3rd party don't often get to choose our working conditions. Someone who streams for a living has 100% control over their conditions. If they don't like it its within their power to change them. End of.

      • s/streamer/Times Square Elmo/

    • by fazig ( 2909523 )
      Supply and demand.
      If there's some idiot making noises and some other idiots throw money at them for doing so, it can be seen as a profession. That's how the entire entertainment economy has worked for centuries. It's the medium that changed from, telling stories around a fire, over theater and circuses, over writing novels, telling stories on the radio, the cinema, TV, to streaming over the internet.

      Some people overdo it and crumble under the stressful environment the manoeuvred themselves into. There's
    • This a great example of the toxic people they have to face.
      • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        Awww diddums, poor ickle cupcake, did you get triggered by my comment? Better run to your safe space and hide!

    • I have to work 70 hours a week and get 3 million dollars per year :(

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Pretty stupid statement from someone who's nickname is "violate".

      If someone is working 8-10 hours a day, and then after they stop streaming are still answering replies to fans, and thinking about what they will be streaming next that will be interesting for their fans, that's the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of a narcissistic personality.

      • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        I suggest you go look up what narcissism means then get back to me, you clearly don't have a clue.

    • Not sure a stereotype narcissist would go that deep that it hurts him. You know, why would he, he's great. He has nothing to prove. You have to prove to him that you are worthy. There seems to be a lot of self sacrifice involved. That can be pretty complex stuff.
    • The woman sitting next to me told me that she streams for eight to 10 hours every day, and when she wasn't live she was curating her social media, responding to fans, scouting for brand partnerships or collaborations with other streamers; throughout our conversation she was visibly resisting the impulse to check her phone, where new stats and fan comments and potential opportunities were presumably stacking up. I asked what she does for fun and she seemed genuinely confused by the question.

      I can envision these people coming home from a full day at this job, heading for the backyard, picking up a shovel, and digging a ditch - just for the comparative fun of digging it and then filling it in again.

    • This is literally no different from self-employment as any other kind of entertainer, at any point in human history. Most would-be entertainers fail, which is no different now than it was in the past.

    • So you don't listen to any music, watch any television or movies, or play any videogames, right O knower of all legitimate labor?

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:46AM (#62029147)

    Because it usually entails doing stuff you don't want to do, something you omit when doing it for fun.

    Back when computer magazines were still a thing and people bought them, I was working for a pretty big computer game magazine as an editor. Which basically means playing computer games and writing articles about it. Dream job, ain't it? I mean, think about it. You're 20 and you play games on the job. It IS the job. It's almost like this, but actually real!

    Yeah. That is until you realize what you really do. You don't play games you want to play. You get thrown a bunch of mediocre, if not outright crappy, games that you HAVE TO play for a while, and then write something witty, funny and informative about them on top of it. Imagine playing crappy game after crappy game while you know that a game you really, really want to play is sitting right there and you don't get to.

    Streaming is likely the same deal. You don't play for yourself. You play for an audience. An audience that wants to be entertained, informed or thrilled. Ever tried that? It's not fun.

    • by registrations_suck ( 1075251 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:53AM (#62029157)

      So, it's basically like every other job.

      I play for an audience too. The people who tell me what my projects are and what rules I have to follow if I want to get paid.

      Of course, none of the shit I have to do is shit that I want to do. I have to work on the shit they tell me to work on.

      My dream job? Working on my own shit, when I want, how I want, without having to tell anyone else what I'm doing. Of course, nobody is going to pay me for that, so I work as a wage slave for someone else.

      Like the above poster said, cry me a river. Welcome to reality.

      • It's more like being a small business owner than a job.

        • I think this is the aspect that press coverage of streamer/YouTuber burnout doesn't address. *Some* people on both platforms overwork themselves for diminishing returns and burn out. Others manage their time more effectively, work when they want to, and never burn out. I personally watch some YouTubers that constantly complain about how they work 80 hours per week, and I watch others that rarely make videos, make them on their own schedule, and are just as or more successful.

          This is true of small businesses

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Exactly. I don't get the complaint - jobs are hard and boring? Every other working stiff knows that already.

        The only thing this generation has is they have new jobs available that weren't around in my time. YouTuber, Twitch Streamer, Gamer, eSports, social media correspondent, etc. None of those jobs were even a remote possibility.

        Just because it never existed before doesn't mean it still isn't a job with all the same problems traditional jobs have. Heck, I'm sure in my time people who built computers for a

        • Yup - movie 'stars' will get replaced with animations. Live streaming is where acting jobs are going to. Game streaming is probably a little better than porn streaming.
      • by mustafap ( 452510 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @06:24AM (#62029297) Homepage

        >My dream job? Working on my own shit, when I want, how I want, without having to tell anyone else what I'm doing. Of course, nobody is going to pay me for that, so I work as a wage slave for someone else

        When you have more experience and a broad network of contacts, you will find that yes, people will pay you. I ended up in that situation aged 55. Would have liked it to have happened earlier, but glad I'm there now.

      • Wow. That sounds like a sucky job. What I get paid for and my hobbies are often indistiguishable (said my ex-wife %^)

        I have a good time most all the time. Sometimes I have me as my boss and sometimes others. Both have their good and bad aspects. Working with others means dealing with personalities, and most of them aren't bad.

        The nice thing about the job I get paid for is that if I have questions or concerns I have access to other resources that are getting paid to be there (and sometimes even to be helpful

    • by jlar ( 584848 )

      Yeah. That is until you realize what you really do. You don't play games you want to play. You get thrown a bunch of mediocre, if not outright crappy, games that you HAVE TO play for a while, and then write something witty, funny and informative about them on top of it. Imagine playing crappy game after crappy game while you know that a game you really, really want to play is sitting right there and you don't get to.

      Streaming is likely the same deal. You don't play for yourself. You play for an audience. An audience that wants to be entertained, informed or thrilled. Ever tried that? It's not fun.

      And in addition to this the hunt for viewers (= revenue) has a corrupting effect on streamer morals. The more spectacular your game play is the more viewers find it interesting and the more money you can pocket (some streamers do of course provide value that is not related to them being demons in the game they play and they do not have this problem). And just like professional athletes use performance enhancing drugs to get an edge so does professional streamers use cheats to get an edge in their games.

      A si

    • Streaming is likely the same deal. You don't play for yourself.

      I don't think that's entirely true for anyone other than those who seek success by formula. There are several streamers who naturally grew into their profession and did so in a common way: They did what they liked and wanted with the camera turned on and started making a bit of money. The secret to happiness is not seeking success, but rather bringing other people in on your happiness.

      Streaming can be somewhat unique in that you're your own boss. You define the content. You decide what you want to do. You s

      • Well, game reviews have always been unreliable and not useful. And digital games have let to there being very few game demos anymore (no more part one of Doom being free and still becoming a mega-hit and making the author rich anyway). The equivalent of "will I like this game?" today is watching videos on youtube. For those who need to play the game immediately (because all the cool kids play the first week before the next fad) then you watch the first day live stream; for those who can wait they'll watc

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Indeed. The question is how the good balances the bad and there will be bad even in an area that is intensely interesting or enjoyable for you, that is if you only do the good. People have a tendency to see only what they want to see and that is not sustainable if they actually have to do the full package. That is also why I do some CS and IT stuff in my free time, because there I can select freely what I want to do and what not.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I've seen a little bit of that with some of the streamers I follow, but most of them seem to manage it okay. Then again they are the top 1% of the top 1%, most streamers are not so lucky.

      Perhaps you really need to love the game you are playing or the thing you are streaming to be successful. When you see some of the guys who are pushing for world records and it takes them tens of thousands of attempts, thousands of hours to get there... Well they must find it rewarding.

      • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @08:02AM (#62029409)

        This is true in pretty much any field.

        I'm in security. Yes, it's booming and we're currently the rockstars of IT. And yes, there's a few that make a ton of money. But if you look into it, you'll find that the people who make that money are the ones that don't treat it like a 9 to 5 job. I've had my share of talks at large conferences and while I'm far, far away from being that elusive 1%, I dare say that I'm pretty good. And that's mostly due to me spending more than that 9 to 5 job time thinking about it and tinkering with it. Because I absolutely love doing it. Digging out exploits is fun.

        And I guess that's the big secret to success: Don't chase the money, chase your dream. Do what you're really good at, and you're usually really good at what you love doing. Money comes along pretty much by itself that way.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • I prefer the term "cyber dominatrix". I tell managers that they're insecure, stupid dorks and they whimper "Thank you, can I have another one?"

        • And I guess that's the big secret to success: Don't chase the money, chase your dream. Do what you're really good at, and you're usually really good at what you love doing. Money comes along pretty much by itself that way.

          So says someone who happens to love IT security, a very lucrative field. I'm glad things have worked out well for you, but from where I sit, I consider you to be a bit of a minority of the population.

          It turns out that for a great number of people, there isn't this driving passion to work on a particular topic. We have our interests and our opinions, and hopefully our careers manage to tick a number of boxes of things that fulfill us, but our jobs will never be the most important thing for us - they ar

          • I'm in the extremely lucky position that what I love to do, and what I'm good at (mostly because I love doing it), is also in high demand. This is true. But you will find that people who love doing what they do are good at it, simply because they don't stop thinking about it just because it's 5pm and they can go home. Whether you're a carpenter or cook, you will be able to demand more money for your work than someone who just treats it like a job they have to do and would rather not do.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      This is nothing new. Theatre artists in late 1800s, movie stars of early 1900s and musicians of mid and late 1900s were all in that same category. Entertainment a fun hobby and a horrible grind as a profession. Where almost no one succeeds. It's why good parents don't let children become entertainers.

    • Except that streamers are self-employed and have no one to answer to but themselves. That's quite different.

      • Not really. Nominally, yes. Nominally, you have nobody to answer to. If you don't want to work today, you don't.

        Except that your audience will move on to another streamer if you don't provide them with entertainment, as they will if you don't do what they want to get from you.

        So basically, they have to answer to the same entity as every self-employed person: Their clients.

    • is you can never take a break. If you do you bleed subs like crazy. A 1 week vacation can cost you a quarter of your viewers. A 2 week one can end your career.

      YouTuber Viced Rhino's wife died, and his community came together to do videos on his channel for a week because if he just dropped off the net for that long he'd have to spend months recovering. It's nice that they did, but it's insane to think they needed to.
    • One of the reasons I switched to a completely new type of job. My previous job is now my (unprofitable) fun hobby. My current hardware hobby project is now rusting on the attic, waiting for me to get in the mood to debug a small issue. Let it wait. Fun to send pictures of my non-progress to my former collegues. Thank god they like the beers we share.
      • This is why I wouldn't want to develop hardware gadgets for a living. Yes, I enjoy doing it, I love tinkering with hardware and developing PCBs, but I want to do it on my time, at my pace and finish it when I, not some arbitrary deadline, say it's done.

    • How do you stream just for yourself?
  • Do I have to feel sorry for them now? Oh please, get a real job. A lot of them hope to get very rich through that as they think, when they start, it's easy and not a lot of work.
    Most of them never even had a real job. Never really understood what's fun about watching someone else play a game, yep, I also don't like watching sports.
    I really don't feel sorry for any of them, but ofcourse I'm jealous of the ones that made a lot of money doing it.

    • Re: oh dear... (Score:5, Informative)

      by lucasnate1 ( 4682951 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @06:10AM (#62029289) Homepage

      If someone is getting money for it, then it is a real job. Deal with it.

    • Re:oh dear... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:36AM (#62029377)

      Oh please, get a real job.

      You mean providing entertainment in exchange for pay? You may actually consider that an extension of the oldest profession.

      A lot of them hope to get very rich through that as they think, when they start, it's easy and not a lot of work.

      Welcome to real life. People think that of every single profession. Not one 10 year old kid thinks: "When I grow up, I'm going to be poor and slog through 10 hour days!"

      Most of them never even had a real job.

      There is no job more real than to do something and be remunerated for it.

      Never really understood what's fun about watching someone else play a game, yep, I also don't like watching sports.

      I have no doubt at all that sports stars think the same thing about people bitching and moaning about others on an online forum. Are you having fun? Weirdo! What's wrong with you.

      I really don't feel sorry for any of them

      Yes lack of empathy is quite a common trait of people who post on Slashdot. That is something you should consider working on.

  • Sad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RobinH ( 124750 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @05:13AM (#62029237) Homepage
    All these jobs like YouTuber, streamer, instagram "influencer", Uber or Intelcom Express driver, or Amazon worker... They're all terrible jobs for most of the people who have them, in most cases with no benefits. As far as I can see, the reason people are attracted to them is how easy it is to get started. Load an app on your phone and now you're an Uber driver. Upload a video and now you're a YouTuber. But you need a thousand subscribers, which takes an average channel about two years, before you get any monetization and then that's about $100 a month. You need like 200,000 subscribers to be able to live off it. All that time spent building up viewers for YouTube is just indentured servitude. Most trades like tool & die, at least here in Canada, only take two years of college, the trade organization will pay almost all your tuition, you can apprentice to earn money while you go to school, and you start at $30 an hour, maybe more these days. And we've been short on trades for years. Why anyone would choose to be an Amazon worker instead is beyond me.
    • Re:Sad (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:45AM (#62029389)

      And we've been short on trades for years. Why anyone would choose to be an Amazon worker instead is beyond me.

      You don't suddenly magically be a plumber or electrician. There's a reason why "unskilled labour" is a thing. If you're in school and thinking about future careers for your next x years of study / apprenticeship and don't want to attend university then a trade is a very solid choice. If your next rental notice is due next week and you're desperate for a paycheck, then the comfort of a skill progression in 4 years time doesn't help you much now. And based on how much I see apprentices getting paid they are better off in the short term sitting in an Uber or pushing boxes at Amazon.

      Comparing it to streamers who are still in school is a far more realistic as they still have their own social safety net to make a meaningful choice about their future, but then you're battling some form of personal desire. No one looks to the kid who can't kick a ball and say "I want that". They see Ronaldo and say "I want that". They don't look at the teller behind the counter at the bank and say "I want that". They go to university and study business after seeing Elon Musk and say "I want that".

      If you can't understand why someone would want to be a Streamer it means you probably don't enjoy watching Streamers. There are those who do, and they want to be like the people who make them happy.

    • As far as I can see, the reason people are attracted to them is how easy it is to get started.

      Well, that's a real factor, isn't it? I'm not sure why that factor shouldn't count, while others do.

      All that time spent building up viewers for YouTube is just indentured servitude.

      I know, right? So unlike the other heavily promoted option, which is to take huge, un-discharge-able loans from government-tied lenders.

    • Re:Sad (Score:4, Informative)

      by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @10:35AM (#62029801)
      I took interest in your mention of tool & die because I don't know what it is, and I have a 'kid' nearing college-age who is intelligent but who doesn't seem motivated by desk work.

      I read this article:
      https://www.industryweek.com/s... [industryweek.com]

      It sounds like a real mix of good and bad.

      The good: "Journeyman die-makers in the U.S. can pretty much write their own ticket, some of the speakers noted, commanding salaries of 120 to 140K."

      Long-term security sounds very iffy though: " the industry saw a 36% drop in the number of U.S. tool and die shops between 1998 and 2010... this thing has been decaying for years... General Motors has only one tool shop left in the U.S., in Flint... of the 155 diemakers there, only five are under 40"

      "Rohde sees the future of American tool and die shops as finishers for their overseas competitors who can churn out cheaper molds and tooling but lack the expertise to meet the most exacting OEM specs... The Asian die-makers lack the skills and deep experience. "We can build dies, but what we have in North America are the finest die shops in the world," Rohdes said. "We arenâ(TM)t at that level of perfection."

      Unless there is a resurgence of domestic production, it sounds like all that's left is nursing the industry into extinction as Asia takes over. And the job only exists in the rust belt, working almost exclusively along guys my age. That sounds very undesirable for a young person.

      • by RobinH ( 124750 )
        That doesn't make sense. We still make lots of parts in North America, and this supply chain experience is going to temper the willingness to outsource critical stuff. Also, if you look at the way industry is changing to address climate change, most of the solutions are going to involve heavy investment in mass production of small parts (electrical contacts, plates, brackets, battery holders, electric car parts, etc.). That's the kind of stuff that's going to require lots of tooling. So that industry is
    • and do really well, but a lot of the ones I follow are stuck in poor states and towns, and it's the only thing bringing in money because jobs are scarce where they are, and moving is harder than people give credit for (especially if you've got family).
  • by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @05:50AM (#62029265) Homepage
    Yep - difference between professional and hobby. If you're making a living with this, you have to be on top of the market you're operating in. Want to do this for fun and make something on the side? Cool! Do what you like, money is a bonus. Want to make an on-going professional career in broadcasting? Also cool, here are the factors you need to deal with...
  • in that how many millions of kids spend their childhood/school/college pursuing unpaid punishing "work" just based on the dream that 1% of them might get a scholarship and even fewer might actually make it pro where they get the big payout.

    But for the vast majority it's just an incalculable amount of human effort spent making money for everyone but themselves and very frequently it's extremely poor people making loads of money for already extremely rich people.

    Cf. the story of gladiators sold on a myth of i

  • - Exploit your private life
    - Exploit your friends and relatives.
    - Start reviewing games when drunk
    - Start ranting about politics
    - Start ranting about politics when drunk
    - Lash out drunkenly on the people who critize you
    - Start a feud with people who criticize you and replace half your content with Take Thats
    - Post your private address so you'll never run out of content
    - Brag about sexual misconduct
    - Plan your trial as event
    - Lash out at the judge.
    - Feign remorse and document your rehab.
    - Repeat

  • ...when there are musicians and performers of various types who spend their lives developing a true talent that millions are enriched by?
    I never enjoyed playing video games, much less watching someone else play, but whatever. It looks to me like a slightly different version of the same social media addiction that has afflicted half the population.
    Get off my lawn.

    • by Ksevio ( 865461 )

      Yes. 99% of the musicians and performers developing a talent are similarly not going to make it and aren't producing stuff people care about (though there has been a fairly significant number of people playing music live on twitch in recent years - might be up your alley). Similarly 99% of athletes that perform aren't going to be picked up by a big team and people won't care about them.

      People playing games on twitch are sort of a mixture of a performer/commentator/athlete where people watch them for skill

  • by memory_register ( 6248354 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:21AM (#62029367)
    YouTube, Twitch, TikTok, whatever comes next- it does not matter. If you hang your fate on someone elses platform, and that platform is driven by algorithms, the system will chew you up and spit you out. You are not a person, just data to be sold.
  • I have looked over the schedules of some of the streamers with the higher end subscription counts. Some of them stream for an average of 8 hours a day, seven days a week. After a while, you start to learn that they don't have time for a life outside of streaming because they spend their downtime thinking up content ideas for the next day and curating social media to keep interactions going.

    I know some streamers that have extremely low sub counts (100) or so. Even they have to worry about some of the nons

  • Because if a guy complained publicly about streaming for 8-10 hours a day and making a shitload of money from it, nobody would give a single fuck.

  • by SubmergedInTech ( 7710960 ) on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:33PM (#62030581)

    What your job is worth is not based on how many hours you put in, or how good you think you are at it. It's not based on how much you enjoy it. It's how much someone else is willing to pay you to do it.

    And for most entertainers, the answer is "not much". Because supply of mediocre entertainment far exceeds demand.

    Doesn't matter if we're talking streaming, music, comedy, sports, writing, etc. There are way more people who want to do those things than the rest of us need.

    Yes, follow your dreams. But if you're not in the best 1%, at some point you need to realize your dreams are your hobby, and you're going to have to do something else for a living. Or you have to get used to living on unreliable crap income with no savings.

Enzymes are things invented by biologists that explain things which otherwise require harder thinking. -- Jerome Lettvin

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