18 European Countries' Consumer Groups Have Joined the Fight Against Loot Boxes (videogameschronicle.com) 41
20 consumer groups from 18 European countries are launching a coordinated action asking authorities to pass regulations on loot boxes. From a report: The groups are lending their support to a new report from the Norwegian Consumer Council (NCC) entitled "Insert Coin: How the Gaming Industry Exploits Consumers Using Loot Boxes." The consumer groups are calling for a number of measures, including "a ban on deceptive design, extra protections for minors, and transactional transparency." The report accuses companies of exploiting consumers by using mechanisms that it claims are "predatory" and "fostering addiction." While calls for legislation on loot boxes have been taking place for a number of years, this new action is notable due to the number of nations being represented in a single coordinated campaign.
What exactly is a "loot box"? (Score:4, Informative)
Honest question. What is a "loot box"? From what I read it can be a number of concepts. Here are the ones I can think of that may apply and some that may not. Which is which?
1. Using some type of currency (in-game or real world), the player elects to purchase a "loot box". The player "opens" the loot box and there is some chance at some in-game reward.
2. In the process of playing a game, a player wins a loot box. If they player wants to open the loot box, the player must acquire a "key". The can be purchased or earned in game. The player "opens" the loot box and there is some chance at some in-game reward.
3. In the process of playing a game, a player wins a loot box. The player opens the loot box at no cost of currency (of any type) and is presented with a chance-based reward. (This is the process of almost all "kill bad guy, get loot" models of gaming.)
4. In the process of playing a game, and completing a specific challenge, the player wins a specific piece of loot. There is no chance involved. Completing that challenge in that way will always result in that loot.
And does it matter if the in-game currency used (if used) is purchased using real world currency or if it's a truly in-game only currency (acquired in the process of playing the game)?
Re: (Score:3)
One of the original loot boxes:
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/... [teamfortress.com]
The crates drop for free at random, but they're locked. You have to buy a key. Usually they're $2.49. What you get is randomized from a loot list based on the crate list.
Re:What exactly is a "loot box"? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's basically gambling, but many pay to win mechanics are too. Look at Candy Crush and the failure rate of some levels - designed to make someone gamble boosters purchased with cash to overcome the odds that are stacked against them.
Re: (Score:2)
So laws have be broad, describing gambling in terms that are not easy to circumvent. e.g. encouraging the spend of real money to win randomized events, randomized rewards, or otherwise overcome time locks or artificial restrictions, within the game or in associated application
Re: (Score:2)
The question is really is the horse armor worth $10? Or is it people are getting it for the chance to get the legendary item?
Context is key, not some sort of middle school pretend lawyer, trying to be a smart ass around twisting the word of the law around to make it seem like you are being technically correct.
Why am I punished for getting into the fight, I didn't throw the first punch. I just teased the other guy, and prevented all his other means to get out, then he punched me. I am the victim hear! Wel
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I would say 3 and 4 may not qualify, 4 there is no chance so no gambling, 3 well maybe if you can't pay money to increase the odds of getting the loot. I think for 3 the moment the player can pay the developer will be incentivized to make it so hard that most people will pay.
Personally any game that charges me for stuff in the game I am not interested in. Especially if the game charges me so I don't have to play, i.e. pay for progression. Isn't the point of a game to have fun playing? If the game is so bori
Re: (Score:2)
I misread #4. The "complete task, get the reward", but there's no chance involved, so you're right.. For #3, still seems like it would qualify as "gambling" because there is an element of chance. The only difference is you are paying with your time instead of your cash. According to the article, that's one thing they are wanting to curtail, the excessive grinding to have a chance of winning a prize.
As for your second comment, I couldn't agree more. I despise games that you either have to invest full-ti
Re:What exactly is a "loot box"? (Score:5, Insightful)
IMO it's 1 and 2 on your list, since 2 just looks like 1 with extra steps.
There are two reasons for this:
1. If real-world money is involved, this is just gambling. Game companies so far have been using the loophole in that "it's not gambling if you can't cash out your winnings". Well, the in-game reward has its value, even if you cannot convert it to cash. In a lot of countries, gambling venues have to have a license, some minimal odds of winning (you can't have a slot machine that never "wins") and not allow minors to participate.
2. Even if you can get in-game currency without paying real-world money, it is very similar to gambling, with some games (NBA 2K20 comes to mind), featuring a slot machine. This should be age restricted as well, since it trains people to gamble. https://www.bbc.com/news/techn... [bbc.com]
And does it matter if the in-game currency used (if used) is purchased using real world currency or if it's a truly in-game only currency (acquired in the process of playing the game)?
It probably does, but let's face it - loot boxes (paid for with in-game currency that cannot be bought with real-world money) would not be good experience. The loot boxes that can be bought with real money are not a good experience too, but are there for one reason - to make people buy them over and over again, hoping to get the whatever "rare" item, so that the game company can sell the items nobody wants (and multiple copies of them) and make more money than just selling the item that everybody wants. In addition, the whole loot box experience is made to resemble gambling as much as possible (NBA 2K20 had slot machines) to trigger the gambling addiction in players (not all of them obviously) in an effort to have some addicted "whales" to spend every cent they have on the game. Casinos are heavily regulated in a lot of countries and loot boxes were the way for game companies to have a casino that's not a real casino. The problem is that they god too greedy, overstepped the boundaries and got noticed.
Re: (Score:2)
They're all of the above, none of the above, and any of the above; all at the same time. Whichever way any bastard-spawn-of-zynga gaming company spins it; they're just another stupid and shitty microtransaction mechanic. They're a sure sign of an awful game that I'll never want to play made by an awful company that I'd love to see go out of business. (Can we just go back in time; burn Zynga to the ground; put all its employees, execs, shareholders, etc. to the sword; and plow the land through with salt p
Re: (Score:2)
> What is a "loot box"?
An in-game "mystery box" that is paid for by Real Money (or in-game currency) where the contents are random. i.e. Gambling for children.
The problem is the majority of games utilize a greedy P2W (Pay-to-Win) mechanic with RMT (Real Money Transactions). It is just one of the main reasons mobile games are shit: They don't respect the player's time nor wallet. Many have hurry-up-and-wait [baekdal.com] mechanics where you can, conveniently, spend currency to bypass the wait.
Using in-game currency
Loot boxes (Score:3)
Bringing vegas to the kids, get them trained young
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bringing vegas to the kids, get them trained young
Ironic, given how child friendly Vegas is these days. More family resorts there now than coke and hookers (erm... the coke and hookers crowd now goes elsewhere). Even the gambling is bad now.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you're thinking of the 90’s, Vegas got away from that when they started the what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas advertising campaign
loot - 1007 (Score:2)
Renaming "loot" to "1007" to avoid legal action in 3, 2, 1...
Renaming stuff seems to work to avoid previous PR disasters and/or avoid/block legal action for a while so that they can continue being horrible. A few examples:
Payday loans -> Car title loans
Facebook -> Meta
Google -> Alphabet
Comcast -> XFinity
Philip Morris -> Altria
Monsanto -> Bayer
Re: (Score:2)
I think this would have been a good FP, though the actual FP is sound and raises some interesting questions. (But needs more context about the psychological manipulations involved.)
Gambling mechanics take many forms (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
99% of the games on mobile phones are glorified slot machines. I hope they ban them all, then maybe people will start making real games for mobile.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is why 21 years is a minimum for engaging in many of these activity. But in the case of games it not just gambling. The games have to generate revenue. The mechanisms outside of mandatory costs are
Pokemon Cards? (Score:4, Insightful)
I totally agree with the idea that loot boxes work based on gambling mechanics and are especially unethical when targeting children, but there's also a long running precedent of allowing this in the form of collectable cards. Are packs of baseball cards or Pokemon cards really any different from loot boxes?
I'm kind of curious now why everyone thinks/thought that using gambling mechanisms to sell collectable cards was totally fine, but using the same mechanisms to sell digital goods is totally inappropriate.
Re: (Score:2)
You get a physical card. I don't think most people buy baseball cards hoping to get one card, they buy them because they like baseball.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Pokemon Cards? (Score:4, Insightful)
Are packs of baseball cards or Pokemon cards really any different from loot boxes
No. But they got away with it because they didn't make enough money for so little in return to get this kind of attention. Just because something gets ignored doesn't mean it was always OK.
I'd like to have good old full verion games again (Score:3)
Why can't we ban microtransactions in games altogether and force game developers to focus on playability and delivering a complete game from day one instead? I'd be willing to pay more for a quality, full game experience where completing the game is not hidden behind a paywall.
Re: (Score:2)
Indie games or gog
Re: (Score:2)
I own about 150 games on GoG. It would just be nice to ban this dodgy, subscription-like business model as a whole.
Re: (Score:2)
Kids don't know what they are missing out on. Someone should tell them. I also don't play any ad supported games on my phone.
Re: (Score:2)
Same. Any games with ads, freemiums, games with microtransactions or games where you have to buy outside-of-the-game content to achieve 100% completion can go f themselves. Also, the greatness of GoG games is that you can take the same game in 20 years time and play it again like it was today, with the same memories and good feeling, without the risk that a company X, Y or Z goes bust and you'll lose access to your content. I really don't know how modern kids put up with this.
The actual article - pdf (Score:3)