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Games

Chess Grandmaster 'Likely Cheated' In More Than 100 Matches, Report Finds (thedailybeast.com) 209

An investigation into the career of Hans Niemann, the chess grandmaster embroiled in an alleged cheating scandal, has found a disturbingly widespread pattern of suspicious behavior far beyond what the 19-year-old had previously publicly admitted to. The Daily Beast reports: The 72-page report, compiled by online platform Chess.com and reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, alleges that Niemann had "likely cheated" in more than 100 online matches, including several played for prize money. The Chess.com report noted the "many remarkable signals and unusual patterns in Hans' path" as an in-person chess competitor, but did not accuse him of cheating in any classical over-the-board matches, instead suggesting that "further investigation" was merited.

The chess world's governing body, FIDE, is conducting its own inquiry into Niemann's playing after Magnus Carlsen, the Norwegian world champion, all but directly accused Niemann of cheating in a game last month. Following the scandal, the younger American player confessed to having cheated -- but only twice, in instances he chalked up to his age, having been 12 and 16 years old when the incidents supposedly occurred.

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Chess Grandmaster 'Likely Cheated' In More Than 100 Matches, Report Finds

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  • At the casino (Score:5, Interesting)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @06:30PM (#62938961)

    "If you win too much, we know you cheated."

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      That is basically what the evidence seems to amount to: Anomaly detection. That one is not reliable in any way.

      Not saying he did not do it, but any real accusation is premature at this time. That is were "motive", "means" and "opportunity" comes in. None of these have evidence so far. There are some suspicious things that should be looked at (and that is happening), but no proof.

      • no proof.

        What exactly would "proof" be to you?

        What sort of investigation would you suggest? A retroactive strip search months after the game ended?

        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          Do you not understand the concept of proof? Are you willing to just believe any random accusation made without evidence because you don't personally see any way that such an accusation could be proven?

          Carlsen shouldn't toss out accusations like that if he can't back them up. All that does is unfairly tarnish the kids reputation. That's a real scumbag move if you ask me.

    • by dohzer ( 867770 )

      They care if you cheated or not. They just ban you for winning.

  • There can't be that much money in chess championships. Can there? So what's the motivation? You just want people—or "the world"—to love you? Kinda depressing.

    • by Osgeld ( 1900440 )

      anyone being paid to play a game has motivation, they are being PAID to play a GAME

    • by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @06:51PM (#62939019)

      Some event are 6 digit first prize:
      https://www.chess.com/news/vie... [chess.com]

    • by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @07:05PM (#62939043)
      People cheat in games where there is no money involved. People who lose a game sometimes get all butthurt over it, even when there is little or no money involved.

      People are weird.
      • People are weird.

        Tell me about it. There's this poster on Slashdot who thinks everything in life is exclusively about money!

      • by mjwx ( 966435 )

        People cheat in games where there is no money involved. People who lose a game sometimes get all butthurt over it, even when there is little or no money involved.

        People are weird.

        Yep, you just have to look at competitive online games, some people literally pay to cheat in those games.

    • The 2021 world chess championship had a purse of 2 million euros. In 2020, Magnus Carlsen earned about half a million dollar just from online chess. That's not including sponsorships.

    • by higuita ( 129722 )

      people cheat in computer FPS against unknown people why? to say they are the best
      people even cheat in single player games
      not everything is about money, feeling good, feeling success, gaining status or even the rush of cheating and not be caught

    • The tournament in question is 13 days long, the winner makes $100k, and the top ten finishers all make over $10k.

      The online tournament a few days later that Niemann was subsequently kicked out of has a $200k top prize, and the top 32 finishers all make over $10k.

      And there are lots more tournaments like this.

      Magnus Carlsen has an estimated net worth of $50 million. So you can't exactly make subvert-democracy money, but you can make movie-star or pro-athlete money playing chess.

    • There are professional chess players. The payments of their mortgages depends on whether they have enough victorious games.
  • Now we do cavity searches on all chess players before matches? That might discourage a few women players...
    • by Catvid-22 ( 9314307 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @07:22PM (#62939093)
      Just put the players inside a Faraday cage on the bright side of a one-way mirror. Now the only cheaters we should watch out for are cyborgs with embedded electronics inside their heads.
      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Just put the players inside a Faraday cage on the bright side of a one-way mirror. Now the only cheaters we should watch out for are cyborgs with embedded electronics inside their heads.

        Not really. You are not an engineer, I take it? Because I can still think of a lot of approaches that would work even in that situation. Remember these people are Grand Masters. A simple "spend more time on this move" one-bit signal is already a massive help. You can do wonderful things here that do not require any electronics. Also, Faraday cages are not perfect.

        • by Jeremi ( 14640 )

          Perhaps you can deal with the problem on the outbound side -- broadcast the chess match on a 30 minute time delay.

          Even the world's best supercomputer is going to have a tough time assisting a cheating player, if the computer doesn't know what the current state of the board is.

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            That will just give you a problem in the other direction. Maybe one that is easier to solve, maybe not. I guess a lot will depend on what FIDE finds out. These days, data-transfer is something that can hardly be controlled though, so a capable cheater with good tech access can always cheat with little risk of discovery.

      • We had a Faraday cage at HP, and I could still pick up signal from the WiFi Router that was... well, 3 feet outside the cage. They aren't 100% effective, and their effectiveness varies with frequency.
      • That would not stop people from using SockFish [incoherency.co.uk] or ButtFish [github.com].
    • How about metal detectors? Anything electrical needs metal.

    • That raises an interesting non-chess-related question, would checking all cavities make women or men more likely to bow out? Are women more tired of constantly being probed or are men more homophobic? Inquiring minds, etc.

  • by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @07:17PM (#62939089)

    There's a fine line between calling someone a genius or a cheater. This is not to say that Niemann did not cheat but statistics and arguments starging with "we believe that..." have no merit without concrete evidence.

    • by godrik ( 1287354 )

      Well, they have a method to detect cheaters. They identified a list of 25 or so potential cheaters. 19 have fessed up. The last one is Hans who sits in the middle of the confidence of their analysis.

      So is it circumstantial yes? But there is a shit ton of circumstantial evidence. Would that pass a burden of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt"? Maybe not. But to make policy on their own platform, they don't need that. Would that pass a burden of proof "more likely than not"? Yeah, probably. And to make decision

    • Read the chess.com report. Hans admitted the 2020 cheating they detected.

      Note that chess.com only accused (and got admission) of online cheating on their site. White noting irregularities of his recent win against Magnus, they are not accusing him of cheating, although they do note that in the post-game interview he was lying about his online cheating which prior to that that had been dealing with as a private matter.

  • perhaps that's his true motivation?

  • by Local ID10T ( 790134 ) <ID10T.L.USER@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @07:30PM (#62939109) Homepage

    Chess.com has direct financial ties to Magnus Carlsen. They cannot provide an impartial analysis.

    • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

      Yes, "Local ID10T", they cannot provide an unbiased analysis because they are biased. Thank you Captain Obvious.

      But that doesn't mean they're automatically wrong. I'd love to take someone who's consistently wrong to Vegas, we'd play Blackjack or Roulette and I'd do the opposite of everything they say and make millions!

      • by narcc ( 412956 )

        It doesn't make them right either. On the contrary. You can't trust anything they have to say. That means that it's a complete waste of time to entertain anything they put forward.

        You'll notice that they're not willing to make a definitive statement. Everything is qualified. That's also a real scumbag move. They're going to completely trash this kids reputation and not even try to provide any actual evidence. All because Carlsen got his feelings hurt when the kid gave him a thrashing.

        • You can't trust anything they have to say.

          You can't trust anything anyone says. Trust isn't an automatic given. But to simply throw something out because of some financial link is almost dumber than to take everything on face value.

          Scrutinize. Don't take a stupid approach of either trusting or distrusting blindly.

          You'll notice that they're not willing to make a definitive statement.

          Indeed. Speaking of Trust it shows a certain amount of trustworthyness when someone who has a model that is based on assumptions and points to a likely outcome, doesn't make a definitive statement. If they did they would be drawing conclus

    • This is a position worth exploring. Maybe Magnus knows enough of Hans' history to be thoroughly disgusted. Maybe that's further exacerbated because of his ties to Chess.com. But that doesn't immediately mean that Magnus is wrong. Or Chess.com either.

    • by higuita ( 129722 )

      chess.com banned hans even before they have played, so that is not a good argument

    • Chess.com has direct financial ties to Magnus Carlsen. They cannot provide an impartial analysis.

      Sure, though if you read the report they're actually pretty even handed.

      All the accusations are based on evaluation by their standard anti-cheat tools. As for OTB play they explicitly say their tools can't detect anything (though there are statistical red flags). And they even debunk some other anti-Hans analysis that other people have done.

  • After defeating Carlsen, Niemann said he just happened to have studied in depth that morning the opening Carlsen used. Why did Niemann choose to study that opening in depth that morning? Does it make sense to do something like that? Did he somehow receive inside information (i.e., cheat)? On Saturday of the Sinquefield Cup, Niemann had cheerleaders show up at the St. Louis Chess Club where the tournament was being held--several young women dressed in tight black miniskirts. Why?
    • To me, thereâ(TM)s a difference between studying an opponent to identify their tendencies and developing a strategy to defeat them and getting information while playing. The former is smart perpetration and the latter cheating. I play poller with some guys and learn how they react to their cards and use that to bet. I suspect they do the dame as part of the game; and accept that is part of the hame. OTOH, one guy would try to peak at my cards if he sat next to me, so I stopped playing in games he sat
      • Re: Why? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by higuita ( 129722 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @11:10PM (#62939551) Homepage

        that argument was exactly why Carlsen used a opening that he never used before... yet it was the exact opening that Hans studied ... that only increased the suspection around him

        • that argument was exactly why Carlsen used a opening that he never used before... yet it was the exact opening that Hans studied ... that only increased the suspection around him

          And with good reason. It is highly unlikely to pick the needle in a haystack of potential moves. Had Carlson opened with one he used before and Hans made a brilliant move his explanation would be more plausible. As it is, Occam’s Razor seems more plausible than Han’s explanation.

      • Spying on an opponent isn’t studying their tendencies during match play.
        There’s no need for cheerleaders if you’re clean.
        • Spying on an opponent isn’t studying their tendencies during match play. There’s no need for cheerleaders if you’re clean.

          I didn’t say spy on, I said study. Looking at historical play can give insights on how they may react to a move; which is different than getting in match help.

  • There are only winners and losers.

  • Just asking on behalf of a friend.

  • How? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 1s44c ( 552956 ) on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @12:51AM (#62939647)

    It sounds like no mechanism for cheating has been found. If this guy was cheating someone should be able to figure out how. Until that happens it's not fact, it's conjecture.

    • It sounds like no mechanism for cheating has been found. If this guy was cheating someone should be able to figure out how. Until that happens it's not fact, it's conjecture.

      This is online chess. The way he cheats is the way everybody cheats. Use a computer to find your next move.

  • I know next to nothing about chess, and even less about online chess, so may this is a silly question: what safeguards does chess.com currently have to ensure fair play among elite players? Are the players filmed? Is spyware (from chess.com) put on their machine? Is there any network monitoring to ensure they don't have a second connection? I'm sure many people have thought of thousands of ways to cheat, but I'm wondering what efforts exist right now to prevent it, where I assume cheating here means using

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