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Games

Ubisoft and Riot Games Are Working Together To Combat Toxic Chats (theverge.com) 82

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
Ubisoft and Riot Games are teaming up on a new research project that's intended to reduce toxic in-game chats. From a report: The new project, called "Zero Harm in Comms," will be broken up into two main phases. For the first phase, Ubisoft and Riot will try to create a framework that lets them share, collect, and tag data in a privacy-protecting way. It's a critical first step to ensure that the companies aren't keeping data that contains personally identifiable information, and if Ubisoft and Riot find they can't do it, "the project stops," Yves Jacquier, executive director at Ubisoft La Forge, said in an interview with The Verge.

Once that privacy-protecting framework is established, Ubisoft and Riot plan to build tools that use AI trained by the datasets to try and detect and mitigate "disruptive behaviors," according to a press release. Traditionally, detecting harmful intent has relied on "dictionary-based technologies," where you have a list of words spelled in different ways that can be used to determine if a message might be bad, according to Jacquier. With this partnership, Ubisoft and Riot are trying to use natural language processing to extract the general meaning of a sentence but take the context of the discussion into account, he said.
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Ubisoft and Riot Games Are Working Together To Combat Toxic Chats More

Ubisoft and Riot Games Are Working Together To Combat Toxic Chats

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  • "Toxicity" (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Type44Q ( 1233630 )
    "Toxicity" - fortunately, that term isn't at all subjective.

    • One man's meat is another man's poison, so they say. This kind of behaviour will just get more sophisticated in response. Let's face it, they're coming off a baseline that is necessarily low.

      As an example, how does the algorithm know I'm not being toxic now? I could be spelling out phrases with the upper case letters I'm using.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by znrt ( 2424692 )

        I could be spelling out phrases with the upper case letters I'm using.

        let's ban all upper case letters once and for all!

      • Thank you for proving my point.

      • If you're resorting to stuff that subtle to avoid the algorithms, assuming they're that competent, then while you might be attempting to be toxic, odds are who you're trying to be toxic to won't even notice, unless you have some sort of pre-agreed semi-secret code to get by the filter.

        That said, the chat filter for "Dead by Daylight" is the most hilariously incompetent I've seen. In a game aimed at adults, where you're playing either a killer trying to conduct human sacrifice by hanging people off of hooks

  • Ok...so, we're too snowflake-y for trash talking?

    Am I missing something here, that people in these games, are talking smack about each other and this is now evil?

    Is it not possible to play these games and not hear what other are saying, to mute others, etc?

    • Ok...so, we're too snowflake-y for trash talking?

      You're too fragile to read this story without getting offended.

      • You're too fragile to read this story without getting offended.

        I read the synopsis (which is all you can really expect on /., haha)....and from that I got my response that somehow trash talking in a game is now toxic and there are people with skin so thin they can't play with that?

        And my question still stands...for those that can't or don't want to listen to it, is there not a way in the game to turn audio chat off or selectively mute other players you don't want to listen?

        Whatever happened to "sticks an

        • Re:So....now we're too fragile for "trash talking" (Score:4, Insightful)

          by narcc ( 412956 ) on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:16PM (#63056396) Journal

          Here's the problem: Trash-talking trolls drive away other players. That's bad for business.

          It turns out that most players don't want to hear your shit when they're trying to have fun.

          The problem isn't people with "thin skin", it's shitheads like you ruining the game for everyone else.

          • The problem isn't people with "thin skin", it's shitheads like you ruining the game for everyone else.

            Like me?

            I've never played these games...the context of my questions should have made that obvious...

          • You're right that trolls drive away players which is bad for business. It makes sense that Ubisoft would attempt something like this, but I fully expect it to fail. Realistically, the world is full of "shitheads". It's the nature of our species, especially the ones drawn to competitive games. If you're serious about sticking with online games (and you're not a troll), the best thing is to just turn off chat. It does work, and then you don't have to waste time flaming on slashdot (or in game).
      • Despite common belief, it is indeed possible to criticize something without being personally offended by it

      • Have you played team-based games with random people?
        The levels of toxicity is extreme in many games and it's not just trash talking, it's basically just unintelligent screaming drowning out any ability to co-ordinate in the chat.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 )

      This reads like a bit of cringe to be sure but let's not act like we all don't know there is a difference between some good natured trash talking and real toxic behaviour in online games, especially on voice chat, especially to women and minorities.

      If you go out and actually talk to a girl, especially once who likes to game you will find out many of them don't actually get on voice chat because many times they will be trashed due to what they are (a woman) and not because of thir actual skill. Or they will

      • just wait for someone to get auto banned live at an big esports event with no manual review.
        and then after an manual review that says it was in error then do an free mulligan? Forced to restart the match round? from it's start? Can they can rewind to the ban point and restart the match from that point?

        • Because esports players are definitely using the ingame chat and voice logs and not dedicated voice servers or literally sitting right next to eachother...

          Or we just know Riot knows nothing about esports and surent wouldnt just put an "off" button for the service for pro matches.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Sad but true. And just 1% assholes can already ruin it.

      • Re:So....now we're too fragile for "trash talking" (Score:4, Informative)

        by StormReaver ( 59959 ) on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @01:59PM (#63056174)

        This reads like a bit of cringe to be sure....

        And let's not forget that Riot Games is 100% owned by Tencent, a Chinese company. There is no such thing in a Chinese company of "privacy-protecting" ways. You have to assume that all data collected by Riot Games goes straight to the CCP.

        • Is anyone under the impression that every game company isn't recording all chat logs at all times?

          If you're looking for privacy a game chat is far from where you should be.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by znrt ( 2424692 )

            why would that stop him from bashing china?

            logic ... tsk!

          • Is anyone under the impression that every game company isn't recording all chat logs at all times?

            There's a HUGE difference between a company collecting chat logs which it keeps to itself (or even if they use them for marketing purposes), and a company sending its chat logs directly to a totalitarian dictatorship known for persecuting those who say the wrong things.

            There is also a HUGE difference between a company not owned by any government, a company owned by a government that is not a totalitarian dictatorship, and companies owned by the CCP. Riot Games is in the latter category, and needs to be avoi

      • That's what the mute function is for.
        • "But what about my right to get offended??"

        • Re:So....now we're too fragile for "trash talking" (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:25PM (#63056938)

          That's what the mute function is for.

          Suggesting that a Mute button is the solution to a toxic individual is like saying a shotgun is the solution to people squatting on your property: sure, it addresses the immediate problem (while causing a host of others), but it does nothing to address the underlying issue. You're addressing symptoms (and doing so poorly), not root causes.

          The right to free speech is not the right to be free from consequences for your speech. It's fine if you want to exercise your right to free speech, so long as you recognize the rights of privately owned businesses to refuse to do business with you (i.e. let you play their game) because you said something that they don't allow on their privately-owned platform. You have no right to air your amateur porno on The Disney Channel, you have no right to stay in Disney World after they've asked you to leave because you caused a commotion, and you have no right to play a Disney-owned online game if your account gets banned for abusive behavior.

          Businesses get to set the rules for how they operate, and if they say they don't allow toxic chat, it leaves you with a simple choice: limit the speech you engage in while on their platform or take your business elsewhere. Both are valid options. Choosing to break the rules you voluntarily agreed to follow? Not a valid option. Complaining about literally being asked to play nice with others? Strong evidence that you're the sort who would get "yes" responses on r/AITA.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      There is trash-talking and then there are assholes that always have to be top dog or thrive on causing pain. The second are the problem and just 1% of these psychos can already be way too many.

  • chat reporting on private servers is bad and bans can be abused

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by TWX ( 665546 )

      Most moderation requires human oversight for final implementation, and people that are willing to actually commit to it. Automatic systems rarely work because they do not understand context or nuance and won't keep up with changing perspectives or newly invented means of derision.

  • You will go into your grey box and like it!
    There is two major issues I see with this

    try to create a framework that lets them share, collect, and tag data in a privacy-protecting way

    This is not possible and I really wish the data collectors would really stop pushing otherwise. The data wouldn't be worth so much if you weren't collecting to sell it. Which is what they will do since they are corporation and the bottom line is vastly more important than the morals they pretend to have.

    try and detect and mitigate "disruptive behaviors,"

    So are you trying to combat toxicity, or just assholes in general? Cause this sounds a lot like the later. They find a Twi

    • try to create a framework that lets them share, collect, and tag data in a privacy-protecting way

      This is not possible and I really wish the data collectors would really stop pushing otherwise. The data wouldn't be worth so much if you weren't collecting to sell it.

      So much as what? You don't think game publishers have an incentive to reduce harassing speech?

      • 1. Money.
        2. Make more sense to get more people on a platform and put them behind a walled garden. Who cares about a few bad eggs when you have all the eggs. This something easily fixed by setting the default commutation prefs to Friends and Friends of Friends, Friends only, or Mute and not global.
  • standards devised by the National Institute of Standards and Technology

  • You can't solve this with technology (Score:3)

    by mmdurrant ( 638055 ) on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @12:54PM (#63055978)

    First - I believe teens are the biggest gaming audience and as we all know, teenagers are sociopathic assholes.

    Second - no technology can solve this. People being stupid and shitty on gaming platforms is a result of having stupid and shitty worldviews. We exist in a culture where people hoarded TP during a health emergency because they seemed to believe capitalist exploitation is their god-given right - addressing that selfishness is necessary before failures in communication can be addressed.

    • 18-35 is the gaming demo. This is also the age group of most douche bags.

    • Yeah, kid, look. Grandma called and the WoW raid is on tonight, and if you miss it again, you're out of the guild.

      Computer games may have been for teenagers 40 years ago but, many of those teenagers are now 40 years older, and still interested in playing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      I agree. This is not a thing technology can solve. I think it is actually not a thing that can be solved, there is just too many assholes out there and they seem to mostly be born as assholes.

      • I think you could reasonably segregate people by chat preference based on who and what they report, and let all the trash-talkers talk trash to each other forever and ever amen. I would use zero characteristics of the user accounts, and sort people only and specifically on their preferences and behavior.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Hmm. There was this one online-game that just moved cheaters to "cheater servers" and let them have at each other. Do you mean something like that?

          • Yes, ideally you'd throw them all onto the same server[s] and let them cheat and belittle one another

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gweihir ( 88907 )

              That might actually work.

              • Unfortunately, it violates the law of shareholders. So even if they implement it, it won't be around for long.

                After all, this *was* an easy problem to solve decades ago: Just play on another server or host your own (dedicated servers). But then the bean counters realized that by making everyone host the actual games and use the company's phonebook to find said games (matchmaking), they could bring in far more revenue. So the old ways died and rich assholes got even richer. With the loss of communities and
    • So here's the thing, let's say to get around this the trolls develop a complex lingo used to bypass the AI filters. What are the odds the average person is going to have a bloody clue what the hell they're talking about? It'll literally just come off as gibberish.

      One of the things that came out of gamergate that I had no idea about until a YouTuber explained it is that green and purple together is a rape joke and it having the gamergate mascot be a cute girl in a green and purple sweater was a reference

  • It's really weird the way that online communication in games have turned. It used to be that if someone annoyed you or said shitty things or things you don't like, you block them. It's super easy.

    But, that takes action on the part of the player.

    Now the target seems to be to not even allow that to happen in the first place. The target seems to be to completely control speech. I'm sure if major platforms could get away with it, they would only allow communication with pre-selected words and phrases (Nintend

    • It's really weird the way that online communication in games have turned. It used to be that if someone annoyed you or said shitty things or things you don't like, you block them. It's super easy.

      Found the guy who never played GTA online, where blocking doesn't actually work. Make it easy for me to block people and I'll just block them. GTA's non-working blocking feature is deep in a menu and meanwhile I'm in the middle of a mission and I've got distracting spam. Or, I just turn off chat completely... But just abandoning an entire feature isn't a solution either, is it?

      • I actually did, though it was around when it was first released. I played for a few months and then lost interest. Granted, I don't recall blocking anyone, so I can't comment on GTAV Online's implementation of blocking. If it's deep in a menu, that doesn't mean blocking doesn't work, it just means they need to make it easier to block.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by narcc ( 412956 )

      Talk about entitled! No video game is your personal speech platform.

      • Entitled? No video game is your personal safe space. Perhaps you should go find some bunker to hide in if you can't handle others saying words you dislike.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by narcc ( 412956 )

          Sorry, kid, your need to be a shithead is nothing compared to the power of the free market, which has decided that you and your kind can fuck-off.

  • It's a good thing these folks are such stand-up, rule abiding netizens. Otherwise, they might just circumvent whatever restrictions are put on them and continue to be toxic.

  • League of Legends is well known for its community being helpful and supportive.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • but their mods won't allow them to spell 'fuck' in their chats because it's obscene."

  • The cynical part of my brain says:
    "Of course they are because that is far more important than working on game play issues etc."

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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