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PlayStation (Games) Sony IT

Using Your PS5 Vertically May Result in Hardware Failure (pcmag.com) 84

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
The PS5 looks to have a design fault that can take months to appear and only seems to happen if you use the console while it's in a vertical orientation. From a report: As Wololo reports, hardware repair specialists working on PS5 consoles that fail to boot are finding the problem is caused by the liquid metal thermal interface Sony used on the custom AMD Zen 2 CPU. When the PS5 is oriented in a vertical position, over time the liquid metal is moving and spilling out on to the components surrounding the CPU. This also means the liquid metal is no longer evenly spread across the chip it's meant to help cool.
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Using Your PS5 Vertically May Result in Hardware Failure More

Using Your PS5 Vertically May Result in Hardware Failure

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  • Poor AMD (Score:5, Funny)

    by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @02:05PM (#63185376) Homepage Journal

    The RX 7900 XTX overheats when mounted horizontally, and the PS5 overheats when used vertically. Clearly the answer is a fractal case with diagonal mounts.

    • That's not an AMD problem (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @02:13PM (#63185396)
      consoles have always had issues when ran vertically, from the PS2 through the 360.

      And AMD isn't having any issues with the 7900 line per se, it's the coolers (likely the vapor chambers). AMD provides some vague guidelines there but it's mostly up to the board partners. There are no "reference" XTX cards made by AMD. Even the "reference" models are still Sapphire.

      On the plus side I'm pretty confident Sapphire will make it right.

      • consoles have always had issues when ran vertically, from the PS2 through the 360.

        Yeah but for the PS5 Sony seems to have intended vertical to be the "normal" orientation. All boxart typically shows the console oriented that way (at least more frequently than horizontally), and the design aesthetic certainly looks out of place with it horizontal.

        The console should be able to operate correctly in a manner in which they are clearly showing it to be used.

      • The PS1 often HAD to be used vertically after a year or two. And unfortunately, there was no vertical mounting. I know like a dozen people who had to jam the console between the TV and a shelf to keep it upright.

      • The PS5 is the first I know of to be sold with the explicit intention that vertical mounting is the preferred one.

    • a fractal case with diagonal mounts

      KISS : rotating mounts ; wireless mouse and keyboard (or whatever that thing consoles use is called). Leave the fan stationary (w.r.t. the motherboard/ chassis) and spin the entire machine.

      Would the orientation of the cooling slots on the console affect the forcing of ventilation into the rotating chassis?

    • What made you come to that wrong conclusion. The most obvious answer is to put the PS5 into a 3-axis spinner like the one they train astronauts in.

  • But it worked out anyway.

  • Similar problem decades ago (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @02:31PM (#63185464) Journal

    Reminds me of a similar problem decades ago, where there were reports that using the console in a vertical orientation caused the CD-ROM drive to fail prematurely. I can't remember the console now (maybe the Wii?) or if this was ever proven or just urban legend at the time.

  • The problem is obvious (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bu11etmagnet ( 1071376 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @02:32PM (#63185468)

    You're holding it wrong.

  • Liquid metal? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Bu11etmagnet ( 1071376 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @02:36PM (#63185494)

    Are they using mercury for cooling?
    Or molten lead/sodium ? (surely it doesn't need THAT much cooling)

    • Re:Liquid metal? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Dwedit ( 232252 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @02:44PM (#63185522) Homepage

      "Liquid metal" is the trade name for a widely used thermal interface material.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by CubicleZombie ( 2590497 )

      Are they using mercury for cooling?

      "Liquid metal thermal interface" is probably reporter-speak for thermal paste.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

        The two of you are coming dangerously close to having nerd status revoked ;).

      • Re:Liquid metal? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jarkus4 ( 1627895 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @03:05PM (#63185626)

        its a gallium alloy that has a melting point around room temperature making it a liquid during application. Those alloys have better thermal conductivity (better for cooling) and are electroconductive which means potential shorts when spilled.

        • That stuff is really going to be fun around areas that use a lot of aluminum, like industrial shops and stuff. A little bit of gallium can ground a plane for good.

          Wish they designed their cases around a closed loop liquid cooler, or the tiny refrigerant filled heat pipes found in a lot of Android phones. It may not be as high tech, but at least it would handle heat better.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            Wish they designed their cases around a closed loop liquid cooler,

            Look up the PowerMac G5. The last few units Apple sold used a liquid cooler. Unfortunately, over the years the liquid turns out to corrode the seals and leak out. Below the cooling units is the power supply.

            There are YouTube videos of people plugging in the G5s and letting the smoke out.

            The liquid isn't even special - it's Chevy Demron or something bog standard coolant. It just wasn't meant to be used for decades without being changed, I gue

        • yeah, it is a bloody nightmare putting that stuff on. First and last time I will use it was building my current gaming rig, the extra couple of degrees cooling aren't worth the pain.

      • Re: Liquid metal? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by LindleyF ( 9395567 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @04:26PM (#63185888)
        Or for a T1000 melting down.
    • or Thermal Compound. But calling it a liquid is completely correct for the product name, this version flows!

    • Its mostly gallium indium and tin and was a rage fad back when they were designing these things ... I don't think anyone else uses it anymore as it attacks copper and is nearly impossible to clean plus its conductive which is what you want leaking in your ps5

      • Its mostly gallium indium and tin and was a rage fad back when they were designing these things ... I don't think anyone else uses it anymore as it attacks copper and is nearly impossible to clean plus its conductive which is what you want leaking in your ps5

        Absolutely correct. They also have a foam surround to try to inhibit any metal from escaping but it seems to rely largely on surface tension and not actual closed cell confinement (perhaps for thermal expansion reasons). It probably does not help the units are sometimes subject to vibration from speakers.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Liquid metal is widely used by EOMs and is popular with hobbyists too. For example, Lenovo uses it in many if its higher end laptops, and I believe so does Dell and many other brands.

        The main issue is that it is difficult to apply without getting it everywhere, and it's conductive. That's less of an issue for assembly lines where it is applied mechanically.

        Performance is significantly better than other thermal interface material.

        • Another problem with liquid metal is that it tends to leak unless the heat spreader is flat or unless properly contained. Which is OK if some overclocker is doing it on his rig and knows what they are getting themselves into, but not OK for a consumer electronics product sold to people who don't know what a thermal interface material is. Some manufacturers are even applying liquid metal to gaming laptops. Hope you aren't carrying that laptop in trains and airplanes vertically for too long, or that the manuf

    • Liquid Metal thermal compounds are a newer design of a gallium-indium-tin alloy that is liquid at room temperature, so it is easy to apply. It is entirely metal (100% metal), so it is slightly more thermally conductive than traditional thermal paste materials.

      • The bad news is itâ(TM)s electrically conductive as well. So not only is it more prone to leaking off the processor since itâ(TM)s literally a liquid above room temperature, it will also short out any components it leaks onto, both of which are attributes traditional thermal paste doesnâ(TM)t share.

    • Its gallium based alloy

  • So this is what, the 5th PlayStation you shouldn't use vertically? I had to use my PSX upside down at the end there. Couldn't have used SwapMagic with my PS2 vertically, I don't think. Can't imagine the George Foreman that was the PS3 being useable in any orientation except horizontal. PS4 = Wobblegate. PS5 is really just doing the honorable thing here and continuing the legacy of punishing fools.

  • Mine is vertical and I've not had any issues but may as well flatten it out and stop the Morphing Madness from eating my machine!

  • It looks like the new hotness for thermal paste is the "Honeywell 7950 phase change thermal pad". Lenovo is using it in all their new gaming laptops. Supposedly, it is very reliable and does not require periodic changing.

    • Linus Tech Tips recently reviewed PTM7950: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      All not needed. The difference in temperature is minuscule if the cooler is mounted right. There is a reason traditional power electronics uses and continues to use just the regular white paste. The only reason to use a phase-change pad is easier application (a regular pad does not cut it for CPUs, too thick).

      • There is a reason traditional power electronics uses and continues to use just the regular white paste.

        The last couple things I took apart used the dark grey paste. I got a huge syringe of it for $5, it's like 20cc or something. Testing has shown that the metal-bearing pastes are more effective, though. Arctic Silver 5 is supposed to be nonconductive, but they also say not to get it on pins or components... but it also doesn't run away like liquid metal, so it's a reasonable medium.

  • Sony is leader of making absolutely shit hardware. Their consoles suck. Their TVs suck. Their cameras suck. Last decent thing they made was the discman in the 90s.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Yep. Had a Vaio laptop. Died from overheating in regular office-type use. Had to re-solder the PCMCIA card slot several times before because these cretins did not screw it in but relied entirely on the solder connections to keep it in place. Very sleek though. But I will never buy Sony hardware again. These people suck.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ffkom ( 3519199 )
      Their criminal act of secretly installing root-kits on their customer's PCs kept me from every falling victim to their products thereafter. That company is just pure evil.

    • IME the much later Discman units are actually a lot more reliable than the early ones. I still have a late era car discman with mp3 support and something like 60 or 120 seconds of anti-skip, and I really abused it and it's held up. And it has pretty great battery life, too.

      My early discman died rapidly, you can't hardly find a vintage one that still works.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Saffaya ( 702234 )

      Hum.. No.

      I can't believe for the life of me that I am defending a Sony product, but the PS Vita is an excellent and reliable (Gasp!) product.
      The first generation even has an OLED screen, my first device with one.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

        Ok, except that UMDs were shit technology. So, while the Vita might not have been the worst thing on its own, it was paired with failure and guaranteed to be so.

        Sony doesn't invent good technology. They just don't.

        • UMDs were on the PSP, my brother. The Vita had a memory card type format, and was also fully online. You didn't have to use physical media if you didn't want to.
    • The discman was shit too, it skipped if you even so much as moved a muscle, let alone walk with the thing.

  • The solution is to stick the vertical PS5 on a slow rotisserie to rotate it. That way the liquid metal remains evenly coated over the CPU.

  • I worked in a GameStop as Assistant Manager from 1999 to nearly 2003 and a part time stint in 2005-2007 (for the discount when the Xbox360 launched and just stayed on). I was also the resident carpenter/mechanic/computer tech in the store. If something needed to be fixed, I was the "Mikey" that did it. The staff often asked for my help even after I left to fix things because we remained friends. I fixed numerous PS1, PS2, and Xbox360 consoles during that time.

    A lot of times a system wasn't checked well by a

  • Which is vertical and which is horizontal? That is, is the PS5 a device that's 39cm wide and 10cm high, or 39cm high and 10cm wide? Not knowing this, I have no idea whether or not my PS5 is currently positioned in a vertical or a horizontal position.

  • No one told Sony to put a small heatsink on an overtaxed system.

    • No one told Sony to put a small heatsink on an overtaxed system.

      Literally not the issue being discussed here, but I wish you luck finding a relevant thread to post that comment in.

  • The only way for the thermal paste to melt is for it to be heated, and that requires the PS5 to be on. The only reason for the PS5 to be on is if you're playing a game. Since the PS5 has no games, this isn't an issue.

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