EVE Online Player Uses Obscure Rule To Pull Off Biggest Heist In Game's History (pcgamer.com) 82
An anonymous reader quotes a report from PC Gamer: Back in 2017, we learned about the biggest heist in EVE Online history: A year-long inside job that ultimately made off with an estimated 1.5 triillion ISK, worth around $10,000 in real money. But now another EVE player claims to have pulled off a heist worth significantly more than that -- and with significantly less work involved. The 2017 heist, like so many of EVE's most interesting stories, relied primarily on social engineering: Investing months or years of time into grooming a target before pulling the rug out from beneath them. But redditor Flam_Hill said this job was less bloody: Instead of betrayal, this theft was dependent upon learning and exploiting the "shares mechanic" in EVE Online in order to leverage a takeover of Event Horizon Expeditionaries, a 299-member corporation that was part of the Pandemic Horde alliance.
Using a "clean account with a character with a little history," Flan_Hill and an unnamed partner applied for membership in the EHEXP corporation. After the account was accepted, Flan_Hill transferred enough of his shares in the corporation to the infiltrator to enable a call for a vote for a new CEO. The conspirators both voted yes, while nobody else in the corporation voted at all. This was vital, because after 72 hours the two "yes" votes carried the day. The infiltrating agent was very suddenly made CEO, which was in turn used to make Flan_Hill an Event Horizon Expeditionaries director, at which point they removed all the other corporate directors and set to emptying the coffers. They stripped 130 billion ISK from the corporate wallet, but that was only a small part of the haul: Counting all stolen assets, including multiple large ships, Flam_Hill estimated the total value of the heist at 2.23 trillion ISK, which works out to more than $22,300 in real money. ISK can't be legally cashed out of EVE Online, but it can be used to buy Plex, an in-game currency used to upgrade accounts, purchase virtual goods, and activate other services.
Using a "clean account with a character with a little history," Flan_Hill and an unnamed partner applied for membership in the EHEXP corporation. After the account was accepted, Flan_Hill transferred enough of his shares in the corporation to the infiltrator to enable a call for a vote for a new CEO. The conspirators both voted yes, while nobody else in the corporation voted at all. This was vital, because after 72 hours the two "yes" votes carried the day. The infiltrating agent was very suddenly made CEO, which was in turn used to make Flan_Hill an Event Horizon Expeditionaries director, at which point they removed all the other corporate directors and set to emptying the coffers. They stripped 130 billion ISK from the corporate wallet, but that was only a small part of the haul: Counting all stolen assets, including multiple large ships, Flam_Hill estimated the total value of the heist at 2.23 trillion ISK, which works out to more than $22,300 in real money. ISK can't be legally cashed out of EVE Online, but it can be used to buy Plex, an in-game currency used to upgrade accounts, purchase virtual goods, and activate other services.
Undo? (Score:1)
I don't play Eve, never tried it, and no nothing more about it than that it is a multiplayer space sim, and something vague about a giant battle that took place years ago. Presumably all of this is in accounts tracked by the servers - couldn't the Eve Online folks just hit the undo key?
Re:Undo? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am quite sure that someone at EVE Online could back out all of those transactions. However, what's the fun in that? A game with enough realism that you can use corporate law to hijack and entire company. That sounds amazing.
Re:Undo? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the EVE Online corporate universe should investigate the concept of a "quorum".
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe the EVE Online corporate universe should investigate the concept of a "quorum".
Worthless unless the developers have implemented the mechanic in-game. It kind of sounds like they didn't.
In the real world, such shenanigans would be instantly shot down in State or Federal court by a judge.
Re:Undo? (Score:4, Informative)
That was kind of what I was alluding to. They could use an in-game mechanism to prevent this. I was trying to be cute by calling it the "Eve Online corporate universe", but that's shorthand for "the devs need to patch this."
Re:Undo? (Score:4, Interesting)
This kind of skullduggery however is half the game. Its ugly but its part of what makes it fun.
This happened because the leadership of the targetted corp wasnt paying attention.
And this kind of branch stacking nonsense happens all the time IRL.
Re: (Score:2)
And this kind of branch stacking nonsense happens all the time IRL.
I've done it in real life. Or rather I got some kids to do it. Our neighbourhood has a local council meeting where people can make suggestions, including what to do with funds we have. Normally it goes to pointless dress up of the parks (and by pointless I mean trimming trees that aren't ready to be trimmed, or running a mower over grass not tall enough to reach the blades). The local kids lamented their lack of entertainment, I suggested they gather as big of a group as possible and go to the council meeti
Re: (Score:2)
so you want to patch the fun part? sounds.... fun?
Re: (Score:2)
It depends on whether the game players agree that this is a fun part of the game or a bug that needs fixing, I guess.
It's typically the person that does the exploiting, not the people being exploited, who think those sorts of things are "fun", but maybe Eve Online players would disagree. I'm not one of them.
Re: (Score:2)
its already set in stone by the game developers and has been tested to the limits by the games user base. it's fine.
but maybe Eve Online players would disagree. I'm not one of them.
quite obviously you are not
Re: (Score:2)
On the one hand, a per-head quorum would have fixed this exact set of circumstances. On the other hand, a per-head quorum could just have required a little bit longer to spin up dummy accounts to apply to join EHEXP and vote with the raiders.
A per-share quorum would not be crackable without substantial initial expenditure, but would also make it hard to do anything in a corp with disinterested wealthy members.
What are you going to do as EVE Devs? Hard-code "better" rules? Or create some variables with real
Re: (Score:2)
> In the real world, such shenanigans would be instantly shot down in State or Federal court by a judge.
I don't think the state or federal government have jurisdiction in ...... SPACE.
Re:Undo? (Score:4, Insightful)
This hack could have gone wrong in so many ways if, say, the actual CEO or one of the actual directors just voted No. It seems like this corp is really inactive and deserved the theft.
Re:Undo? (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect the real story here is that Eve Online is basically dead - so anyone who wants can pretty much run rampant.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't be so sure...
https://mmo-population.com/r/E... [mmo-population.com]
https://webtribunal.net/blog/e... [webtribunal.net]
https://eve-offline.net/?serve... [eve-offline.net]
Of course, it's not a game breaker (pun intended), but it's more active than I would have thought.
Re: (Score:2)
Never played EVE, but I wonder how obvious the game makes it that there's a vote going on? If it's something that only shows if you open a specific menu for the guild (or corporation, as they apparently call it) then I can totally believe it going unnoticed.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It seems like this corp is really inactive and deserved the theft.
This is just a game, so consider my next words in that light since they will be strong words:
Deserved? Really? Are you God or something trying to decide what is deserved or not? Someone stole something. That is NEVER deserved unless that thing was stolen from the stealer first. Your attitude is why rapes happen. She deserved it. She shouldn't have been wearing that party dress in the dark alley.
Anyways, it is just a game and this does make it interesting; however, Eve sucks. Too much of a time requirement..
Re:Undo? (Score:4, Informative)
The CEO of a corporation doesn't typically need a quorum to transfer some money and drive away in one of the company's vehicles.
Eve has a bunch of corporation mechanics. In order for this to work, the corporation had to issue shares, somehow give 5% or more of those shares to these two members, all the other members had to ignore the vote, also not do anything for several days during the cooling off period after the new CEO was appointed, then not shoot them as they made off with the loot.
Re: (Score:1)
I'm not sure you understand what the word "quorum" means. There was a _vote_ to make a new person CEO instead of the established one. In almost all contexts where anything is decided by voting, there's a defined "quorum" rule which establishes how many people have to be present and/or vote, in order for the vote to be valid. For example, in the House of Representatives, a "quorum" is at least half of the Representatives, so if a dozen guys f
Re: (Score:2)
I'm aware of what a quorum is. You seem to have missed the point. The EVE corporation system includes a bunch of safeguards against this kind of thing. The denizens of this corporation just ignored all of them.
The specific mechanic of requiring some large percentage of apparently eligible voters to form a quorum was likely excluded on purpose because many of those players may have quit the game.
Re: (Score:2)
Right, it's a game. It's not "real" money, even though there's weirdly a market for it. There doesn't seem enough players to justify the market price though unless they base the value on the asking price and not the actual selling price.
Re: (Score:2)
The price conversion is easy.
You can buy 1month game time with "hard existing dollars" or roughly 2 billion "non existing in game money". Or you an play for free, and your character is capped at a certain level of capabilities.
Has nearly nothing to do with "aks or sell".
Re: Undo? (Score:2)
They would never undo, they never have unless it was wholly malicious and illegally messing with the game servers.
These heists and scams are an integral part of the game and what makes it the most fun.
Re:Undo? (Score:5, Interesting)
This sort of thing has happened several times in the past, and CCP Games (the developers of EVE Online) position has always been that if it was all done "in game", with no cheat codes, hacking or manipulation by CCP Games employees, then its "as intended" and stands.
Basically, its part of the game - if someone beats you in the virtual economy, then thats the game being played.
Re: (Score:2)
It's kind of annoying that world of warcraft didn't work this way. People could be banned for, and I quote, "manipulating the in-game economy."
Though doing that didn't seem to bother blizzard when it came to diablo 3, where basically if you didn't buy gear with real money that botters would gather and blizzard took a cut of, then you just plain weren't getting any.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, I can account for at least one time CCP actually got involved in something that was entirely in-universe but eventually affected their bottom line.
In "our" sector of the EvE Universe, back when the game was young and much smaller than today, and mining ships were the big new thing when you were cracking stones, we had a mining and building alliance. We held no systems. We rented them from the corps that did. And over time, we grew to be the ones where you could order capital ships delivered to your do
Re: (Score:2)
And CCP didn't like that...
I'm pretty sure, they liked it.
As that is how the game still runs.
We were "renters", too. But had subrenters - miners and builders - we were hunters and part of the main army.
Re: (Score:2)
We were miners and builders. We bankrolled the whole deal. It was kinda bizarre, we had whole Corps that came into existence as our bounty hunters. Both sides got what they wanted, we had that air of power where Alliance leaders actually mailed us that they kicked the person out that shot at one of our ships just PLEASE don't blackball me... And our guns-for-hire had the joy of pretty much having no care for the ships they lose, they could just enjoy their run-and-gun game without the danger hanging over th
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah,
I mostly played when I had a good freelance job AND a lot of spare time. Or when the free lance job was over and I did not immediately look for a new one.
However being "hardcore" is in games much to much "work" and "effort" that could be spent else.
Some people even run multiple accounts and sometimes even at the same time.
I knew a guy who had like 3, and his dad had 3, too. When his dad was sick, he played his dad on 2 toons and himself on 3 - multi boxing ...
Re: (Score:2)
Multiboxing EvE as a miner is pretty easy, the ships only need a bit of attention, I ran a foreman, a miner and a hauler... yeah, I was a slacker, you can squeeze more than that into it, but back then I only had a tiny screen that didn't allow for more. :)
Re: (Score:2)
couldn't the Eve Online folks just hit the undo key?
Sure, but why?
The game includes lots of "flying around in space" stuff, but it also includes corporate espionage and criminal shenanigans, and this sort of thing sounds like it fits right in.
Re:Undo? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
It was legal. The corp didn't have proper locks or a watchdog. So this guy gets a co-conspirator in the corp, gives him enough shares so he is allowed to vote and the other guy starts a vote for a new CEO. This isn't an instant process by the way and it needs 50% of the vote. All somone needed to do to stop it is to log in and say no. Funny enough somone mentioned this exact plan 11 years ago in a reedit post. Funny.
How do you replace an absent ceo from a corp? [reddit.com]
Also, for the record. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not a lot of players, I suspect many are to the point of just playing on the weekend. So start the vote on a Monday and there's a chance no one will hear about it until Friday.
Re: (Score:2)
if there is a vote for a new CEO, how the funk should the voters know it is important?
Basically they don't know anything. They assume the old CEO has retired and the "new one" is only asking for "confirmation".
If I was new in a corp, I would not participate in such a vote. As I neither knew the old CEO nor the new one.
CEO positions are usually hold by chars that do not play. Because they have alts that do the actual playing. The CEO char usually only logs on if he has to do CEO stuff - like opening a new of
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't forget to vote, kids! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
"When did voting ever make a difference" - those guys probably
Re: (Score:2)
Not an obscure rule! (Score:2)
Could eve undo it? Maybe but the local economies are change rapidly and things would get very complex very fast.
Re: (Score:2)
This all well known->This is all well known
economies are change rapidly->economies change rapidly
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot is in savage need of an edit key. My eyesight is absolute garbage in my older years, and I'm terrible at iphone typing. The two combine to occasionally make my posts look like I'm in the middle of having a seizure. Alas.
Re: (Score:1)
Seems like they could undo it, but as it's actually an intended feature of the game they probably won't. The lesson here seems to be: "Make sure you log in to vote in those shareholder meetings, hippies!"
Re: (Score:2)
This all well known to any involved in corp leadership and creating/using shares.
Not really.
You have to read a huge pile of documentation. AND: grasp it.
Most corps do no not hand out shares, they are owned be the founder and that's it. Basically everything involving shares is usually an exploit in the other direction, aka shareholders never getting any money etc.
This wasn't a heist (Score:1)
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The funny thing for me is, when I read something like:
"A year-long inside job that ultimately made off with an estimated 1.5 triillion ISK, worth around $10,000 in real money. "
ISK is my actual currency. And it is highly prone to inflation. So when I hear about someone making off with 1,5T ISK, and that it's now worth only $10k, my first thoughts are, "Yeah, that sounds about right...." ;)
That's still less than one Bitcoin. (Score:3)
And Nothing Of Value Was Lost (Score:2)
No need to Undo.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It is digital nothingness in the realm of a lost whim.
Re: (Score:2)
It is real money, if you sell the in game ISK on a black market.
E.g. I can buy a month game time for roughly $20 ... or for 2billion ISK - in game currency.
Sent me $10 on my paypal and I sent you 2billion isk and you save $10 and I gain $10 - in real currency.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, those ISK represent an awful lot of player hours. But it sounds like none of the other players bothered to log in and block the takeover so presumably they didn't care or have stopped playing.
But as previous posters have observed EVE is one of a number of MMO games which are slowly dying due to lack of participation.
Re: (Score:2)
They probably did not even notice that a voting is going on.
People still play EVE? (Score:1)
Or maybe not if none of 300 people bothered to vote in 72 hours. Although -someone- must have let them into the guild but I guess doesn't log in often enough to notice his entire corporation being stolen.
I'm not sure why it had a following in the first place. I tried it out when it was pretty new and found myself waiting half of fucking forever to get anywhere. So I ask my buddy who got me into it what I can do to go faster. He says yeah you can get better engines but they're not dramatically faster. H
Re: (Score:2)
>It's like hey let's have a 15th century explore the world game and make it take real time months to get anywhere. During that time you can uh sit on the deck of your ship and watch clouds go by, eat virtual fish stew, watch the sails flap. For months. It's gunna be a winner, I can feel it!
You could do that - and have the intermediate time be a screen saver. Kind of a 'as your screen saver kicks out, you can choose to play a little minigame that will affect what it displays next' kind of thing.
People p
Re: (Score:2)
Farmville provided essentially instant feedback and ongoing satisfaction.
But I do like your screen saver game idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Lol, I'm retired now so I don't care anymore about much of anything but if you make this, please let us know. I'll buy it just for the lolz if nothing else. I really do like your take on it.
Re: (Score:2)
This was when the game was newish. I played for a day and half, got bored, deleted. My buddy was hard core into it from day one. He only did three things: basic life functions, work, EVE. If there was a warp button and some sort of true high speed way to get around at the time, he wouldv'e told me and been using it himself.
So, for the current version, tell me this: if I'm new and doing the initial training missions where they have you do some basic mining and travel and moving a few items around, how lo
Wow amazing (Score:3, Interesting)
Wow, someone played the video game and swindled video-game money within the game, which can be used towards stuff in the game.
Next let's talk about how a guy once "tea-bagged" another player in Halo by using the crouch button over their corpse.
My life is boring, and yet after I read these stories I always feel like less of a loser.
Re: (Score:2)
There are ways of converting that in-game money into real money. Officially it's not allowed, but unofficially there are plenty of places you can trade it.
Did Dominion have a hand in the voting system? :( (Score:1)
Just asking.
And yes, this is for humour/trolling
LOL (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Does your empty server have 300k people logged in right now playing? No this is like a carefully calculated move to find a server empty enough for you to get the top frag on. Eve Online is still very active and I'm amazed this worked.
It's probably a bit like real life. My bin is full of shareholder voting forms that I've never bothered to open assuming someone else will.
Re: (Score:2)
Does your empty server have 300k people logged in right now playing? No this is like a carefully calculated move to find a server empty enough for you to get the top frag on. Eve Online is still very active and I'm amazed this worked.
It's probably a bit like real life. My bin is full of shareholder voting forms that I've never bothered to open assuming someone else will.
This stuff does happen in real life, but the corp usually covers it up to prevent drop in the share prices... ;-)