Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Games

After You Die, Your Steam Games Will Be Stuck in Legal Limbo 125

As Valve's Steam gaming platform approaches its 21st anniversary, aging PC gamers are grappling with the question of what will happen to their extensive digital game collections after they pass away. Recent inquiries to Steam support have highlighted the platform's policy that accounts and games are non-transferable, even through a last will and testament. While some potential loopholes exist, such as sharing account information with descendants or bequeathing a physical device with games installed, the legal ownership of these digital assets remains murky.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

After You Die, Your Steam Games Will Be Stuck in Legal Limbo

Comments Filter:
  • You own nothing (Score:5, Informative)

    by nonicknameavailable ( 1495435 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @03:24PM (#64496763)

    The buy button is a big fat lie you own nothing that your hard earned money paid for

    • You own possible entertainment for life*.

      *unless the servers are taken offline, or the game is pulled from the platform, or it becomes unplayable because technology advances, or...

      • Actually- for whatever it's worth, I own several games that were "pulled from the platform"- i.e., marked as no longer for sale, and store page no longer visible.
        They still download and play just fine, though.
    • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      Right - I don't understand what is 'murky' here. Non-transferable is non-transferable. We are after all talking about a license contract NOT a physical good.

      The contract is the thing you are buying. It says something in it like 'the purchaser'. I suppose in theory the contract can be inherited and viewed as property. Its just that in terms of the intellectual property its not operative because the new owner is not the party described in the contract. I guess they are free to read and enjoy their histori

      • Re:You own nothing (Score:5, Insightful)

        by taustin ( 171655 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @04:46PM (#64497005) Homepage Journal

        The contract is the thing you are buying.

        If they advertised it as a cancellable (at their whim) license, there would be a lot fewer people objecting.

        But when they call it a sale, the law pretty strongly suggests it's just that, especially where copyrighted items are concerned (one time purchase, no fixed term means the right of first sale comes into play).

        It's the false advertising that people object to.

        • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @05:30PM (#64497099) Homepage Journal

          They call it the Steam Store, not the Steam Leasing Office.

          • Yes, and they sell licenses to copyrighted work. They're not leases, technically.

            A lease must be for a specified amount of time.
            Though these licenses expire at your death, like all licenses, that is not due to it being a specified time.
            There is a such thing as a "lifetime lease", but it's only informally called that. Legally, it's a purchase that reverts back to the seller.
        • by boulat ( 216724 )

          Think of it this way.

          If you bought a Toyota and ran a few red lights, and then Toyota decided that you are a danger to the public and disabled your car - permanently - would you be losing your shit?

          This is what these gaming companies are doing. Some censor text so not to offend other users, but they will still ban you for life.

          It's their own feature that does not work, but you pay for their incompetence.

          Even if your speech violated their terms of service, its not a simple matter.

          Once you bought the game and

          • Once you bought the game and money has exchanged hands, its no longer just their product. There is now consideration.

            I think maybe you're alluding to First Sale Doctrine, here?
            Unfortunately, this goes back to what you agree to.
            If you are purchasing a copy of something, you indeed do have a legal right to that copy, and to sell it.
            If you purchased a license to use a copy, then you have no such right- period (17 U.S. Code S. 109).

            It doesn't matter what their rat lawyers put in Terms of Service. Money has changed hands and they have no right to unilaterally change the agreement.

            Sadly, no matter how much you want it to be- that is simply not the case if you agreed to allow them to. And you did.

            It's a shitty situation, but it's one that we are agreeing to with every "p

        • But when they call it a sale, the law pretty strongly suggests it's just that, especially where copyrighted items are concerned (one time purchase, no fixed term means the right of first sale comes into play).

          Sadly, this is patently false.

          There is no First Sale Doctrine for the sale of a license.
          See: 17 U.S. Code S. 109.

          I wish that weren't the case, but it is.
          If it weren't, they'd have been class actioned long before now.

          It's the false advertising that people object to.

          It's not false. I'll grant you that it could be called misleading, since most people don't know what they're buying.
          I suppose that comes down to, "does the seller of the license have the duty to educate the purchaser as to what it really is, and if so, does a clickwrap license cover that?

          • by taustin ( 171655 )

            There is no First Sale Doctrine for the sale of a license.

            The question is whether it is a license, or a sale of goods. Case law says that, where copyrighted material is concerned, if there is a one time fee with an indefinite term of use, it is a sale of goods, and first sale doctrine does, indeed apply.

            Especially when they call it a sale.

            As I said, it is the false advertising that people object to.

            • The question is whether it is a license, or a sale of goods. Case law says that, where copyrighted material is concerned, if there is a one time fee with an indefinite term of use, it is a sale of goods, and first sale doctrine does, indeed apply.

              There is no question.
              The subscriber agreement for Steam spells out exactly what it is you're purchasing. It's a license.

              if there is a one time fee with an indefinite term of use, it is a sale of goods

              This is incorrect.
              Intellectual property is licensed.
              You can sell a copy, or you can license it. Nothing automatically converts a license into a sale of the copy.
              To the contrary, US law makes it very easy for computer software to never accidentally be considered a sale (I referenced it above)

      • will best buy take back an opened game if you say no to the EULA?

        • Nope. Nor do they have to.

          You bought that copy. That copy is yours.
          The license to use that copy is separate from the copy, as fucked up as that is.

          You are free to sell that copy to someone else that might agree to the EULA.
    • it's worse than that, in most of the United States you can't contract with a dead person, so any contract you 'think' you have with Steam is null and void if you die.
    • Assuming it's not a multiplayer game (they do have a few), then you actually owned it.
      • Actually, you still don't. But their license is infinitely more relaxed.

        They not only reserve the right to terminate your license to any GOG Content you may have purchased, they also specifically prohibit you from transferring it to anyone else- including the GOG Content that you downloaded (which from their standpoint is not yours, and sharing is copyright infringement)
    • by boulat ( 216724 )

      These trash companies like Ubisoft should be sued into oblivion.

      They have taken it upon themselves to be the judge, jury, and the executioner - constantly banning people for "toxicity".

      You bought the game but you can't play it, even on self-hosted servers online.

      I would absolutely love to go balls-deep against Ubisoft if there is a class action lawsuit.

      • You bought the game but you can't play it

        No, you didn't. And that's the problem.

        You want a law to save you from your inability to not enter into predatory contracts.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Shugart ( 598491 )
      Doesn't matter to me. After I die there will be no universe.
  • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @03:27PM (#64496769)

    and when an judge orders it in probate?

    • It's like anything you borrow or rent temporarily - you never own it in the first place, so there is nothing to pass on in probate. You can't pass on property to your heirs that was never yours to begin with.
      • by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @03:41PM (#64496819)

        Which is why they need to stop claiming that you "purchased a game".

        In my will I was going to require that my heir complete my Dark Souls 3 platinum trophy in order to receive my money.

        • Which is why they need to stop claiming that you "purchased a game". In my will I was going to require that my heir complete my Dark Souls 3 platinum trophy in order to receive my money.

          I guess the probate judge will just have to give your entire estate to your cat.

        • You purchased an access, like a season pass at the gym, amusement park, music hall. You purchased and own the tickets, and you pass the piece of paper to your heirs, but not the access they grant to the show (if the tickets are nominative).

        • They don't.
          They quite clearly call it a subscription.

          As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers or purchase certain Hardware (as defined below) on Steam. The Steam client software and any other software, content, and updates you download or access via Steam, including but not limited to Valve or third-party video games and in-game content, software associated with Hardware and any virtual items you trade, sell or purchase in a Steam Subscription Marketplace are referred to in this Agreement as "Content and Services;" the rights to access and/or use any Content and Services accessible through Steam are referred to in this Agreement as "Subscriptions."

      • when the judge
        sees paid in full and not rented?
        the account lists
        Purchases

        • There's a reason no Judge has done this.

          You didn't purchase a copy of the software, you purchased a license to use a copy of the software.
          There's nothing strange about that, software distribution has worked like this for a very long time. It used to be enforced by dongles. Now it's enforced by connections over the internet.
    • Kinda makes me chuckle thinking about a couple fighting about how to divide up a Steam game collection in divorce.
    • A judge can't enter it into probate.
  • by djp2204 ( 713741 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @03:34PM (#64496795)

    Provide a sheet with a list of accounts and passwords as part of your will. Attach phone codes and recovery codes as well. Let
    Your heirs sort is out outside probate. I have POA forms and instructions for my executor to impersonate me with outfits like the power company etc to shut down services like water gas etc. itâ(TM)s easier and it works plus no one will be able to complain

    • It was super easy to impersonate my father after he passed away. No one asked any questions.

    • There is probably no need to impersonate. Show a death certificate and a will/trust/etc that gives you access to accounts and companies will mostly likely immediately hand them over. Utilities, banks, credit cards, etc can transfer things over in minutes. Its actually kind of scary how fast they can do it when you think about scammers.

      I expect similar behavior regarding any email accounts mentioned in the "will". Especially given paperless banking. Which leads to the notion of having one email account, m
      • How long do you have to wait for the official death cert? By what methods will a company accept that death cert?

        In my experience, impersonation was much faster and easier.

        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          How long do you have to wait for the official death cert?

          I'm going to guess a couple of weeks. However, I informed the bank immediately and they did whatever it is they do to secure everything. A couple weeks later I visited with the official death cert and official trust doc and the successor trustee was entered into the bank records, the accounts status returned to normal.

          By what methods will a company accept that death cert?

          Local companies, you walk in and show them. When you order death certs from the county you order as many official copies as you need for the remote companies, mailing them to the company, whic

      • If banks or financial institutions receive a death certificate they will immediately freeze the accounts until probate is complete. Even if assets are in a trust, there are formalities that can take up to 2 years before anything is distributed. I have friends who are going through that hell now. Basically estate administrators milking everything they can by requesting for example college transcripts and diploma copies

        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          If banks or financial institutions receive a death certificate they will immediately freeze the accounts until probate is complete. Even if assets are in a trust, there are formalities that can take up to 2 years before anything is distributed.

          Not in my experience in California. At least for a simple inexpensive living trust. Home and bank accounts had been transferred to the trust upon formation a decade earlier. After the death, as the named successor trustee I contacted the attorney that had created the trust and he gave me instructions. Get multiple copies of death certificate, will need to mail some of them to remote institutions, can do a walk-in for locals, don't cash any extra social security or pension checks that arrive, have a home app

  • by Megahard ( 1053072 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @03:37PM (#64496805)

    Can't you just re-spawn, or start a new game?

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @03:40PM (#64496815)

    ... of your on-line purchases in an LLC.

    Same place I keep my guns.

    • A Trust may have a greater ability and more legal precedent to protect such personal assets than an LLC. Plus an LLC may cost you $1,000 give or take in minimum state taxes EACH year. Different tools for different jobs.
    • Excellent idea. Once you die, your liability becomes extremely limited.
  • "Here's your grand uncle's computer. I understand some games may not play due to licensing to him that can't be inherited."

    "Thanks, mom."

    "I'm going to make dinner, macaroni and cheese with hot dogs in it."

    "Cool."

    To himself, "Fuck the games, where's his porn!"

    • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      Awww takes me back to the old days when porn lived on the computer. But really, the porn is going to have the same problem... it's all streamed.

  • In the gun world there are some workarounds for future restrictions on transfers of NFA firearms. One of these is for the firearms to be owned by a trust, and ownership of the trust be transferred from generation to generation. Are software licensing trusts a new niche industry for estate planning?

    • You could probably put your games in a trust but the legal fees will be substantial. You'd need a lot of games to make it worth the effort to pass on a bunch of old games vs buying them at the old game discount store, assuming anyone even wanted them.

      I'm pretty sure no one wants my copy of civ 2.

      • I've seen NFA trusts for $100, with the caveat that I'm in no way whatsoever qualified to judge their quality or utility.

        • I'm going to make a wild assumption that gun trusts are the same as any other in which case a cheap trust would be over a grand. A decent one about 3k and (not true for games) a complex trust with multiple beneficiaries, properties, etc etc could be 20k, 30k, or more.

          If uncontested the template $150 gun/game trust is probably fine for most people but since it's a template there will be very limited flexibility.

      • No, you cannot.

        The licenses are non-transferable, even to a trust.
        • 1) the trust can but the games in the first place
          2) there is no process at the company to check on licensee deaths
          3) the games are licensed to an email address or login. Those can be transferred to a trust without a change of licensee.

          So, yes, they can be. But no one would. This is all theoretical.

          • 1) the trust can but the games in the first place

            Fair.

            2) there is no process at the company to check on licensee deaths

            Very true. That's why the suggested workaround is to just give your user/pass to your heirs. Seems reasonable to me.
            Of course, they'll technically be infringing on copyright, but meh- I doubt anyone thinks they'll go after them.

            3) the games are licensed to an email address or login. Those can be transferred to a trust without a change of licensee.

            They're licensed to a person. You cannot license something to an email address or login.
            The email address and/or login may identify you, but it is not you, and it cannot have rights conferred upon it.
            In the odd situation where a trust were to have purchased the games, that tr

          • So, yes, they can be. But no one would. This is all theoretical.

            Also- I interpreted your "put your games into a trust" as an attempt to transfer them into it, which you cannot.
            I didn't account for having the trust purchase them directly, which shouldn't be problematic, even if the trust can't let anyone play the games (legally)

  • People thought they were just selling out on the DRM front and in exchange steam becomes the installation media. But no, turns out you don't even own a copy of the game at all.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @04:33PM (#64496951)
    My steam games and barring a miracle when Gabe dies things are going to really suck.

    But on average I paid around 8 bucks per game because I buy cheap on sales so I can't get to upset. I've put more money into pinball machines at sandwich shops then I have most of my steam games.
  • by sunderland56 ( 621843 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @04:34PM (#64496953)

    Steam can't tell if you're alive, all they need is a username/password. Put that in your will, your heirs can just continue playing your games forever.

    • This is the way to handle the problem of the non-transferable license.
      Of course, Valve does reserve the right to decide you're dead after some amount of time, or to try to find out if you are at any time, and then cancel it, but I don't think they're actually interested in that.
  • Way back in the day, customer support was sometimes tied to a particular name -- SCO did this, for example -- a small company I worked for always used a fake employee name -- someone who c/would never leave... This solved a lot of problems, though we had to pretend to be that person when whenever we called.

  • I never pay full price for anything on steam for the reason that they don't treat it as ownership.

    Same for any of these services.

    If you're dumb enough to do so, you're the reason why they have user-hostile policies like these.

    • by N1AK ( 864906 )
      I agree, although it is also fair to note that if you bought something on Steam 20 years ago there is probably a much higher chance you can still play it than you being able to stick original media in your PC from 20 years ago and have it run in an acceptable way; and yes I accept if you built some kind of old OS rig with old hardware etc that would work but seriously...

      Most people buying games aren't concerned about whether it will still work in 10 years, let alone intergenerationally.
  • Well, there goes any hope of me leaving SOMETHING to my kids after I'm gone.

  • what about EU consumer protection law as in the usa you are fucked on stuff like this. But in the EU consumer have good rights.
    Even Mexico is better.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story... [usatoday.com]

  • by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Friday May 24, 2024 @05:53PM (#64497149)

    While some potential loopholes exist, such as sharing account information with descendants or bequeathing

    I would say what you have is your Property in the care of a company who is belligerent.

    There is in theory a possible solution to that: Create documentation of the asset. Provided you Legally owned that asset, an executor could seek an order signed by a Judge as the method of reassigning the control of that property.

    A company does Not have the legal right to refuse to recognize your successor to property you legally owned, BUT You may need a Judge's signature on the order transferring control of that piece of property before they would even take you seriously.

    Also, many states will have enacted a version of the Uniform Fiduciary Access to Digital Assets Act [dccouncil.gov].

    "(c) A user's direction under subsection (a) or (b) of this section overrides a contrary provision in a terms-of-service agreement that does not require the user to act affirmatively and distinctly from the user's assent to the terms of service. .. ..

    "(c) A fiduciary with authority over the property of a decedent, protected individual, principal, or settlor may access any digital asset in which the decedent, protected individual, principal, or settlor had a right or interest and that is not held by a custodian or subject to a terms-of-service agreement.

    "(d) A fiduciary acting within the scope of the fiduciary's duties is an authorized user of the property of the decedent, protected individual, principal, or settlor for the purpose of, applicable federal or District computer-fraud and unauthorized-computer-access laws.

    "(e) A fiduciary with authority over the tangible, personal property of a decedent, protected individual, principal, or settlor:

    "(1) May access the property and any digital asset stored in it; and

    "(2) Is an authorized user for the purpose of computer-fraud and unauthorized-computer-access laws.

  • This is clearly a policy that should be made illegal. Of course it won't be addressed here in the corporate simp states of America. The EU will have to force the hand of these companies trying to use digital ownership as a perpetual income stream.

  • All digital media licenses should be transferrable. Full stop.
    Another thing that grinds my gears regarding these licenses is that if I bought an HD movie license, instead of charging a small upgrade fee to 4k, they charge full price, ergo a 2nd license. I should be able to sell/transfer the original.
    All of this is just begging for a class action suit.
    • All of this is just begging for a class action suit.

      On what grounds?

      Do you think you can just sue for anything you like?

      The problem with this bullshit, is that it's perfectly legal, and has been done for going on 4 decades.

  • ....you put the log on credentials in the will. Modern problems need modern solutions ..Just sayin
  • ... a spoof account with it's own pseudo-persona and own mail-adress. And document that to pass it on accordingly.

    I could sell my entire XBox Account with all 62 titles, most them digital, with no sweat at all for me or the buyer. He/she could pick up right where I left off and enjoy all the perks I collected along the years. ... The account even has a gender-neutral gamer tag/name. That happened by chance, I didn't think of that particular detail when I made it, but these days I actually do and see to it

  • Big whoop.

Heard that the next Space Shuttle is supposed to carry several Guernsey cows? It's gonna be the herd shot 'round the world.

Working...