'Stop Killing Games' Consumer Movement Hits Major Milestones (gamingonlinux.com) 49
The "Stop Killing Games" movement, led by YouTuber Accursed Farms, has gained serious momentum as it pushes back against the practice of game publishers shutting down access to titles consumers have paid for. Recent milestones include a UK petition surpassing 100K signatures and an EU initiative nearing its 1 million goal. GamingOnLinux reports: In the UK, the newer petition has flown past the 100K signatures (126,066 at time of writing) needed for it to be considered for a debate in Parliament. That doesn't mean it will happen, just that it now needs to be considered by the UK government to potentially have it mentioned. A good step though, with signatures still flowing in until July 14th, showing there's demand for change.
On the EU side, things are also going well there now too. Against the needed 1 million signatures, it's now hit 977,864 (at time of writing). According to the official Accursed Farms X account, they've had reports of "non-citizens spoofing signatures on the EU initiative" so it may be a little inflated.
On the EU side, things are also going well there now too. Against the needed 1 million signatures, it's now hit 977,864 (at time of writing). According to the official Accursed Farms X account, they've had reports of "non-citizens spoofing signatures on the EU initiative" so it may be a little inflated.
Re:And nothing of value was lost (Score:5, Informative)
I think they expected that since they had paid to purchase the game, they would be able to play that game for as long as they cared to, i.e. same as the deal you get when you purchase a book or a DVD.
You can argue that they were wrong to expect that, but that's the usual way of thinking about items that you buy, so that's what people (who haven't yet thought through the implications of software shrink-wrap licensing agreements) naturally expect.
If being able to play the game perpetually isn't a viable business model, then perhaps the publisher should be required to specify up-front how long (at minimum) they will guarantee purchasers access to the game; that way nobody will be surprised when their access goes away, because they understood the time-limit on what they were purchasing before they made the purchase.
Re: And nothing of value was lost (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: And nothing of value was lost (Score:2)
Sounds good to me. Someone will chime-in, as usual, that:
* Non-transferable third party licenses
* Reduction of possibility of future exclusive exploitation of their re-usable IP (game engine, assets, game mechanics etc) thus giving competitors a leg-up
Still, this is not core to the issue that customers expect persistent use from the exchange.
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Re: And nothing of value was lost (Score:1)
These objections would still apply and still be irrelevant. If the servers are shut down, the money should magically appear back in the customers' accounts.
Re: And nothing of value was lost (Score:5, Insightful)
Ford is required by law to manufacture enough spare parts for 10 years after they stop making the car. This is a much, much closer analogy to the suggested release of the compiled software so local servers can play the game after it is discontinued.
What you said is analogous to the software company releasing the source code and all graphics and sounds used to make the game once it is discontinued. While that would be nice, it's not what is being discussed here.
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there is a waranty related clause:
The only federal requirement is under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which applies only during the warranty period. This law requires that if a manufacturer provides a warranty, they must have parts available to fulfill warranty obligations, but this typically only covers 3-4 years for most vehicles.
https://skeptics.stackexchange... [stackexchange.com]
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Re: And nothing of value was lost (Score:2)
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That seems completely unreasonable.
If Ford decided to stop selling the Mustang, should it give away all the machining, tools, design plans and everything else, so that others can continue making the Mustang if they want to?
Hint: no.
None of that stops using the car. The problem is when a solo game becomes unavailable, due to some online feature being shut down. If the game was sold as an “online solo game”, the customer is aware of what they are getting into. Not so much if is presented a “solo game with online multiplayer mode”.
While ideally online games would become available in LAN hostable mode, the other element is ensuring that games companies aren’t misleading customers (intentionally or otherwise).
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I think they expected that since they had paid to purchase the game
I think that the state of California has already solved this problem [theverge.com], and rather than pushing for... whatever this is, the people organizing this protest could just be pushing for a more widedspread adoption of that law and consumer insistence on only spending money on games that they can actually purchase.
I kid, that won't go anywhere. Boycotts are seldom effective, and gamer boycotts are particularly laughable. Still, the law is a good one. Start with that.
Re: And nothing of value was lost (Score:2)
I'd secretly hoped for a combination of the Spanish Inquisition, Alien Invasion and The Robocalype. Still waiting...
Thanks Pirate Software (Score:2)
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Re: Thanks Pirate Software (Score:1)
A few thousand more needed until 31 July (Score:4, Informative)
For the petition to be valid, they still need (at this time): 2677 signatories from Malta, 2487 from Cyprus, 690 from Bulgaria, 7 from Slovenia.
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They don't, they don't need to meet the quote for each country, just from enough countries. Now it's just every extra vote that ensures that the invalid votes don't ruin the initiative.
Not feasible anymore (Score:2)
Because virtually every game these days includes an online component, they'd need to start making offline games again, and we're well beyond the point in history when anyone would even remotely consider that anymore.
Re:Not feasible anymore (Score:4, Informative)
Indie game companies make and sell new offline games every day.
And online games can have their server code released when the publisher's servers shut down. I'm not even going to insist that it be provided for free. Doesn't guarantee that the game will keep going but it at least makes it possible.
No (Score:5, Insightful)
Ps, you just gave us 5 trillion dollars out of your pockets because half of you were freaking out over moral panics and the other half don't know basic economics, do you think we're going to let you have video games?
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The only people who never shut up about the trans crowd are republicans. Not once have I ever woken up and started thinking about how a girl with a big meaty cock giving me funny feelings.
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They literally said 'girl with a big meaty cock'. He is acknowledging that although they have a big meaty cock that are, in fact, a girl. That is not transphobic, that is trans acceptance.
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*signed, the American corporations.
Ps, you just gave us 5 trillion dollars out of your pockets because half of you were freaking out over moral panics and the other half don't know basic economics, do you think we're going to let you have video games?
Fortunately this is being pursued in the EU and UK where people have these pesky things called "consumer rights". That a product you pay for must be fit for purpose according to the UK Consumer Rights act of 2015. This means it must continue to perform it's function and seeing as software doesn't degrade, it should continue to do so indefinitely.
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How this thing will probably end up:
EU/UK sign a bill requiring game publishers to keep games alive
Game publishers complain to Orangeman
Orangeman furious
Orangeman threatens EU/UK with a big beautiful 500 percent tariff, as he did with Canada
EU/UK rescind the bill
Meaningless (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless these folks stop spending money on cloud dependent games that can be shutdown, the shutdowns will never end. Sign all the petitions you want. Until you put your money where your mouth is, it will not stop. Simply because itâ(TM)s profitable
Re: Meaningless (Score:1)
Tru dat.
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This is the answer right here.
STOP BUYING SHITWARE!
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Unless these folks stop spending money on cloud dependent games that can be shutdown, the shutdowns will never end. Sign all the petitions you want. Until you put your money where your mouth is, it will not stop. Simply because itâ(TM)s profitable
The problem is not so easy because you're not always aware of these things before buying the product, you are not given a set date for the shut down either. When you buy a time limited product, you're given at least an estimate of how long the product will keep working for ("disposable" is considered such).
This is one reason game publishers and extortion companies like Denuvo are getting upset at Steam. The little orange/yellow box that says "this game is limited to 5 activations" or "this game requires
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This is yet another predictable side effect of people misunderstanding the stimulus and response reflex of capitalism: Apply dollars, make things happen more.
I have played a handful of FTP games and put a not insignificant amount of time into them... but never any money. If I don't get to own the thing, defined by being able to use it (not even "as I see fit", just at all — but on my schedule) then I won't pay more for the thing than it's worth to me right now, like going to see a movie. If I don't ge
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Are the UK politicians subject to the same incentives as here in the US? Sometimes it looks like they're willing to pass laws that go against what the US tech companies want. I'm not really up to speed on UK politics but I can imagine a country deciding that foreign game companies ripping off local citizens should be made to pay heavy fines with very few negative consequences locally. Would be interested to know what their political reality is.
If buying something means you don't own it... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: If buying something means you don't own it... (Score:2)
Yep, it's almost as if there should be a requirement for a 'fair usage policy' term in every contract or more generally that contracts which formalise an imbalance of power should become a thing of the past - if only morality could keep pace with the development of mobile phone tech.
Perhaps if there were some way to package morality with profit rather than the current situation where morality seems to be an inconvenient and optional impediment to profit.
Petition against unregulated capitalism (Score:3)
That is kind of cute.
I wonder how many of those signing those petitions vote for politicians who follow the church of unregulated capitalism.
Alternately you could vote for politicians who will regulate the market in way that would, for example, force companies to pay back money if they shut down what your paid for prematurely. Or take away other rights of use from licensed products. capitalism *could* get regulated any way we want, one just has to do it. But if you think the invisible hand of the market will know best, dont embarrass yourself by signing petitions against what the invisible hand just decided for you.
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> Alternately you could vote for politicians who will regulate the market in way that would, for example, force companies to pay back money if they shut down what your paid for prematurely. Or take away other rights of use from licensed products. capitalism *could* get regulated any way we want, one just has to d
Steam Games Will End Badly (Score:2)
theft is met in kind (Score:1)
WOTC will never see another dime from me, I vow to STEAL ALL THEIR CONTENT, until they bring back Spellslingers WHICH THEY STOLE FROM ME