Steam Now Bans Games That Violate the 'Rules and Standards' of Payment Processors (engadget.com) 123
Steam has begun banning games that violate the payment rules of banks and card networks, targeting adult content in particular -- especially titles with extreme or controversial themes. Engadget reports: The new clause states that "content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam's payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers" is not allowed and could result in removal from the platform. In other words, if credit card companies get mad about something, they could actually have the power to ban a game. The clause goes on to say that this will affect "certain kinds of adult-only content."
This has likely already resulted in many games being pulled off the platform. SteamDB doesn't give a reason for these removals, but the timing does match up.
This has likely already resulted in many games being pulled off the platform. SteamDB doesn't give a reason for these removals, but the timing does match up.
omg (Score:1, Insightful)
that you christians
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Payment processors don't care about porn, for example porn sites that publish their own content have no trouble at all. The only porn sites that had problems were ones that allowed user uploads, and even then they still allow it if there are effective checks in place to make sure the content is legal.
Here, it's only games that simulate illegal sex acts, like incest, that are banned. Steam still has lots of adult games, including explicit ones.
This has nothing to do with tits or vaginas.
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No dude. The problem is that the payment networks are acting as a censor at all. A payment provider should not be preventing payments of anything legal.
The problem with NSFW content is that people get embarrassed and chargeback. Oh no, the wife saw the bill and saw "BIGBOOBTHOTS" on it or something.
Reality check. Steam, DLSite, melonbooks, Patreon, Fansly, onlyfans, Twitch, Youtube are all the victims of VISA and Mastercard stretching the definition of bestiality to mean all furries, and the defition of chi
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That's complete nonsense, Steam still has the whole Sexual Content tag collection with all sorts of titles similar to the one you mention.
The did not get rid of furries. They did not get rid of monster girls. The first page of adult games has a minimally-anthropomorphised fucking dolphin on it.
They didn't even get rid of all the ones with "family" in the name, or ones with airbrushed style images that seem to present underage girls.
They did get rid of the ones that have the word "incest" in the name.
They co
I understand. (Score:5, Interesting)
The payment processors have all the power here. I doubt Steam particularly wanted to do this - otherwise that content would have been blocked before payment was an issue. And since the threat really is existential, Steam will bend. No shade to them. They aren't in the business of protecting freedoms. They just want to sell games.
My guess is that it's the mixed situation that is problematic. After all, porn companies use providers that take credit cards. Gambling sites, too. But those companies aren't selling the equivalent of Barbie dolls and bubblegum as well.
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The payment processors have all the power here. I doubt Steam particularly wanted to do this - otherwise that content would have been blocked before payment was an issue. And since the threat really is existential, Steam will bend.
Is it really? If Steam said, "No, we'll find another processor that isn't trying to run our business for us," they would probably not get as low a fee, but that's far from existential. It's not like the actual payment networks give a crap. They get paid either way, even if the transaction gets refunded. It's the merchant account providers that are the issue, and if one is a problem, there are almost a thousand other companies who will gladly step in and fill the void.
So from my perspective, this is Stea
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The big two work in lock-step on this stuff. When MasterCard and Visa decree something is so, all businesses, including other payment processors, obey and follow.
Re:I understand. (Score:5, Informative)
If Steam said, "No, we'll find another processor that isn't trying to run our business for us,"
You seem to be confused just how much of a monopoly the payment processing world is. Payment processors have acted as the moral police for decades now and have killed entire genres of the adult industry single handedly. There are many out there who have actively tried just going to someone else, and repeatedly failed.
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If Steam said, "No, we'll find another processor that isn't trying to run our business for us,"
You seem to be confused just how much of a monopoly the payment processing world is. Payment processors have acted as the moral police for decades now and have killed entire genres of the adult industry single handedly. There are many out there who have actively tried just going to someone else, and repeatedly failed.
*shrugs*
There are literally almost one thousand companies that do this. There's no way that none of them would be willing to process your payments for a high enough fee.
There are quite literally payment processors that specialize in high-risk merchant accounts (e.g. PayCompass [paycompass.com]).
Yeah, there have been problems over the years caused by payment processors being a**holes. And other companies have come in to fill the holes they left behind. That's the thing about capitalism: When one company won't do business
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To me it sounds like pragmatic business. Do these "questionable" titles earn them enough to make it worth the cost? Probably not.
There would have to be really good reasons to march down the path of higher transaction fees and alternative payment processors. If ultimately that path was financially good for Steam, they would have done it. But I doubt it's worth all the hassle.
The idea that an extremely mainstream company with the profile of Steam would resort to "hig
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To be clear, I'm not saying it isn't the right choice for them. I'm just bothered by claims that they don't have a choice, as though this were forced, rather than a strategic decision to prioritize profits and simplicity of their billing architecture over inclusiveness.
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There are literally almost one thousand companies that do this.
No there isn't. Underneath it all there's effectively 2. The pressure does not come from the intermediate processor, it comes exclusively from the credit majors they deal with.
There are not options. You just think there is because you don't understand how this part of the industry works.
See also Pornhub and the stories we've covered here. Or do you think they also voluntarily nuked 3/4 of their content instead of switching to any of "literally almost one thousand companies"? When major businesses make decis
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If you want to change that, you need to change the law.
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If Steam said, "No, we'll find another processor that isn't trying to run our business for us,"
You seem to be confused just how much of a monopoly the payment processing world is. Payment processors have acted as the moral police for decades now and have killed entire genres of the adult industry single handedly. There are many out there who have actively tried just going to someone else, and repeatedly failed.
Not really a monopoly, rather a cartel. I know this is largely a semantic difference because to you, I and millions of businesses the end result is the same but a monopoly is a single entity, payment processors are 2 large entities (Visa and MasterCard) and a few smaller ones (notably AMEX and Discover) colluding together.
And the issues come from governments, specifically the US government giving them too much power. Most other western countries (EU, UK, Australia) have laws that state they must process
Steam did originally refuse sex games (Score:2)
Payment processors will lose this fight.
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Steam doesn't care because this is about games with "incest" in the title, which aren't big sellers and people will just buy a different shitty porn game.
Steam is Afraid of Being De-Banked (Score:1)
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de-banking should be illegal
Down with freedom of association!
Wait, hmm, maybe not.
I use a pretty big bank in the US and they have lots of articles about taxes and crypto on their website. I'll bet the people getting their accounts closed have additional problems, like not disclosing their source of income to the bank, or having a bankruptcy filing.
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This is equivalent to advertisers censoring websites.
Eh, I disagree. Websites are selling ad space and advertisers purchase it. They're a customer. Doesn't seem unreasonable that a customer can pick and choose who they do business with.
In contrast, payment processors are a middleman in the transaction. It's more problematic that they exert control over commerce that both the buyer and the seller wish to engage in.
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They can't be taught logic. like:
money good. Advertisers want money. Advertisers make rule to make more money.
Bank also want money. Bank also make rule to make more money.
Just switch to tokens (Score:1)
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The sales of games with the word "incest" in the title is not actually a big enough part of their business for them to give up the convenience of credit card transactions.
You did know that's what this story is about, right? You can still go to steam and buy shitty CGI games where you fuck furries, and all that. Credit card companies don't care because furries are legal.
Whereas incest is illegal, and in many states depictions of it are considered obscene. That's why a lot of porn sites rename video tiles lik
Anything you bought missing? (Score:2)
Has anybody noticed games they purchased disappearing from their library?
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Steam previously removed Order of War: Challenge [steamcommunity.com] from libraries.
They might not auto-delete already downloaded content, but it still means the user has to be careful not to lose their only copy.
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That would be illegal. At least in Europe.
The wedge (Score:1)
With no way of fighting this or even questioning the companies forcing it, when will "they" decide that they're going to decide books/movies/music are next?
Censorship is, literally, book-burning. Just because the titles being removed aren't what you enjoy doesn't mean your media won't be targetted next.
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"Questionable" is written because the websites reporting on it don't want to write "incest" in a headline.
Steam is not removing anything for being "questionable," and the credit card companies are not complaining about anything being "questionable." The credit card companies are complaining about things that are illegal, and that includes depictions of incest in many US states. They can re-release the same games with the same gameplay and the same graphics if they just change some of the wording so it's leg
I mean (Score:2)
On one hand, I should kinda care because payment processors should not have that much power. On the other hand, the only thing we're losing is low-quality, low-effort, fetish porn "games" - many of which probably barely count as a game at all. So, I'll consider it a wash for now.
Japan took the fight. (Score:2)
Several software vendors in Japan that do sell 18+ or spicy content have stopped accepting VISA cards and ilk for their orders, thus fighting against the orders of the money masters overlords.
Can't imagine Steam having the balls to do the same.
This is what Bitcoin was made for (Score:2)
Before the investment brahs and other morons got in, this was what Bitcoin was made for. Not buying sex games specifically but it was so that you can purchase things (provided that thing is legal) without being told “no, we don’t like that product” by visa et al.
If it’s my money, it’s a legal service, and the merchant wants to sell it and I want to buy it, what right has visa to say no? It’s none of their business.
Imagine if you go to get cash out of an atm, and it says
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What's worse is that Steam could obviously make certain titles crypto-only but MasterCard gets to tell them they can't sell those either.
It's a hostage situation by Fed member banks.
Visa MC monopoly (Score:2)
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Why do payment processors have the ability to regulate businesses? Where does this power end? What if they said they didnâ(TM)t want games that depicted violence
This power ends when you stop electing ideologue, demagogues and religious fundamentalists in large numbers.
This means electing a government that will stand up to the power of corporations and put a system in place that will allow people to bypass the payment processor cartel (like the direct bank-to-bank transfer systems most countries enjoy).
You might not be aware, but this is not something that payment processors are permitted to do in the UK or EU (or Australia... in fact not in most countries) du
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Guns.
If Visa or MC said they didn't want to process gun payments; the government would step in and say no.
But anything short of that....it doesn't. If they decided they didn't want to process payments for a company because they disagreed with their policies; then there is literally nothing that can stop them from doing it. The company will cave. The government will say it's their first amendment right to violate your first amendment rights.
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If Visa or MC said they didn't want to process gun payments; the government would step in and say no.
Look up Operation Chokepoint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The government said that the payment processors couldn't process gun payments. They only stopped ot because it became a scandal (and maybe because the administration changed).
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You should read your link and see if it says what your synopsis says. (Spoiler: It doesn't)
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Maybe, but that should not be dictated by the payment processors.
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The standards of payment processors form a very low bar, as they will process payments for all kinds of unsavory and child-inappropriate content. If even payment processors say no, then I find it hard to justify Steam's support of such content.
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So you're arguing that payment processor standards aren't low?
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Indeed. And Steam knows the age of its customers or can at least determine whether they are adult. Hence this is basically just restricting adults from what they can buy. Not good at all.
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but the fact is Steam is meant to be a child friendly platform that is actively targeted towards people who are underage
Steam has filtering settings, and always has since it started allowing adult-only content. That is the extent of its child-friendliness, and that hasn't changed. This doesn't get rid of adult-only content. It gets rid of.... _extreme_ adult-only content. Think "CP-adjacent cartoons, etc"
Re:Good. Steam is a CHILDREN FRIENDLY platform. (Score:5, Informative)
People seeing adult-only content asked for it. It's not a decision to be made by whoever. And the excuse of "but this hides other games" is bogus; there is a dedicated "adult-only" section, separate from games with occasional adult content. This is not about protecting children. The same thing happens across many platforms, including adult-only platforms.
tl;dr: buzz off, either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're a gigantic bigot.
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Indeed. This is _not_ about "protecting" children from stuff they can find all over the Internet. Steam is already doing that nicely. This has a far darker reason behind it.
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People with no social skills and absolutely no credibility will say that this is a bad thing
I love how you front loaded your argument with an ad hominem attack. Why bother even waiting for someone's argument when you were just going to respond with a fallacy anyways? Might as well lead with your best foot forward!
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Why do you hate sex?
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Many people who are not Christians, believe that there are limits to what should be depicted in media and games, and especially what children should be exposed to. This is not a Christian thing, it's a decency thing.
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Why are you giving your child unfettered access to a non-restricted adult steam account with the "show adult content" setting enabled?
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Who said that's what's happening? You must not have children, if you think such settings would styme them.
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I've got two kids: 13 and 9. I engage in the media they consume with them. Some things I let them go beyond their age on based on their maturity in that area. Other things I hold back on a little. But what my kids are ready to be exposed to shouldn't dictate what should be allowed to be made or depicted, and shouldn't dictate what can be sold on a platform.
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If you have two kids ages 13 and 9, you should know by now that if they want to do something you don't approve of, they'll certainly not tell you they are doing it.
You said:
Why are you giving your child unfettered access to a non-restricted adult steam account with the "show adult content" setting enabled?
My point is that you as a parent, don't necessarily have to give your child unfettered access, they are very crafty and will find ways to get into things you never dreamed they would.
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Control of money (credit cards) is one great way to limit that... Steam is probably one of the safer places online. (They at least require payment for full features making alternate accounts harder to gimmick)
Compare that with a web nanny proxy's effectiveness for the internet at large.
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And why should everyone else on earth be limited in what they could otherwise legally consume because you can't parent your kids? We didn't ask you to have kids you know.
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No, it is not. Because Steam already restricts adult games to adults.
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And how exactly does Steam confirm that an adult is actually an adult? Oh, they just ask? OK, good, that will keep children out, for sure.
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Oddly, for this article, with a credit card payment for one thing.
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Sure. And kids who use Steam, will either 1) have their own payment method, or 2) get their parents to put their payment info in. So how does that help screen out children from adult content?
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Steam has your payment method. Seriously, are you dumb?
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Yes, I'm dumb.
Now that that's settled, children often have payment methods, and the payment method doesn't provide age information.
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Actually, payment methods do come with age information when you require ones that only adults can have. Like, say, credit cards. At least in Europe, it is illegal for a bank to give a credit card to a minor. They are only allowed debit cards with very strict limits.
At least here, Steam refuses to sell age-restricted content when they cannot verify the age via the payment method or in other ways.
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In the US, children as young as 6 can get a debit card (with help from their parents). A debit card functions like a credit card, is on the Visa or Mastercard network, but is tied to a bank account rather than a traditional credit account. These can be used anywhere that a credit card can be used.
So maybe in Europe, a credit card is a reasonable proxy for identifying someone as an adult, but certainly not in the US.
In the US, Steam literally just asks you for your age, and trusts you to tell the truth.
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Have you considered not letting your kids use the Internet then?
Are you also harping on Amazon for selling sex toys, Netflix for having anything but G rated movies on it, and maybe HBO should just be shut down completely. It's not like HBO "checks the age" of whoever walks into the room while the cable is tuned to the channel.
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Listen, every parent has their own standard. This conversation was about Steam's ineffective system of limiting what children can play on their platform. Whatever your standard is, Steam won't enforce it for you.
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Well, possibly. In that case the parent is legally obliged to monitor what the kids buy with it and restrict that. Same as, say, if the parents have pornographic media, they are legally required to secure them against access by the kids.
Seriously, you have absolutely nothing. Stop being an idiot.
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This is not a Christian thing, it's a decency thing.
Hypocrite. You yourself accessed this content when you were under 18, and it caused you no ill.
You're not a special snowflake. If you did, and you did, your children can too, and they'll come out of it exactly as you did, no better, no worse.
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I don't know about him, but I definitely did not purchase adult content when I was underage.
I stole it, like a normal pre-internet kid.
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Payment processors will allow payments for adult-only content, so I'm pretty sure sex isn't excluded by this rule.
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Payment processors will allow payments for adult-only content
Only when there's no fake "mass" protests "damaging" their "brand".
Japan is facing payment processors' racism right now due to those fake Christian "protests" "denouncing" content that's lawful and traditional in Japanese culture, forcing artists and merchants to remove decades of culturally appropriate content because of Western hypocrites and their "indecency" standards they themselves don't follow but have a HUGE hard one coupled with wet dreams in imposing upon others.
Thankfully, backlash is growing and
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What evidence do you have that their outrage is "fake"? Are you aware that some people actually do believe in standards of decency?
Yes, there are hypocrites. What does that fact have to do with anything? Just because hypocrites exist, doesn't make wrong, right, or right, wrong.
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What evidence do you have that their outrage is "fake"?
Because Christian activists are liars. They plan their campaigns carefully so as not to disguise they're religion-motivated. They cherry-pick minor data points and lie telling it's the sole evidence so politicians and others will be misled and do their bidding. They misname their ideology so those listening think they're part of something they aren't. They give names to their organizations that misled, counting on people mistakenly getting there rather than where they want to be. They rebrand over and over
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From your description, I'm thinking you must be a Christian activist. You are flinging accusations without evidence, and pretending that the accusations are "evidence."
Clearly, you have been personally hurt by Christians, or by people who called themselves Christians. It's no wonder you are so angry. Yes, there are plenty of hypocrites...who *isn't* a hypocrite? And there are those (like many TV preachers) who are in it just for the money, or like Trump, who is just in it for the power. But that doesn't inv
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You are flinging accusations without evidence
Very well, here are a few:
"Collective Shout" presents itself as a radical feminist group. It isn't, it's an Australian Christian fundamentalist organization founded and led by someone who adopted the language of feminism [wikipedia.org] to advance (psedo-)Christian cancelling of whatever her preferred heresy dislikes.
Her organization follows the example of an US Christian fundamentalist organization which started honest, started fully declaring itself as Christian, led by Christians, driving a Christian agenda, which is qu
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You completely missed the larger point.
Yes, there are white people who are racist. It's not logical to generalize based on those examples. The vast majority of white people are *not* racist.
Yes, there are dishonest and evil organizations that call themselves "Christian." It is not logical or reasonable to generalize based on those organizations.
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That's irrelevant. I could make my text more accurate and less readable by adding at every step quantitative qualifiers. The point I'm making would still stand, and that one you're actively not addressing.
This is a problem in understanding self-focused people tend to have. One talks about a problem most in group A suffer due to something many in group B do (e.g. A = women, B = men, so a woman says, "All men are X because Y!"). An individual P who is a member of group B feels negatively by the situation betw
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Addressing problems, and calling out hypocrites, is valid. Projecting hypocrisy on the entire group, is not.
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I've stated several times along this thread that what I'm saying doesn't apply to the few exceptions that don't fit the mold. Either you didn't read in full, or didn't pay attention when reading.
To recap: I refer to the liars plus those who enable the liars by actively supporting them, or through inaction. These three (liars, supporters, indifferent) form the majority. The minority that is none of those isn't the target of anything I'm saying.
Going back to the original point: you yourself are not in the min
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Either you didn't read in full, or didn't pay attention when reading
Oh, I read it, but after saying that it doesn't apply across the board, you then "un-say" it by asserting that there are just a "few exceptions." You are saying one thing with the "large print" and the opposite with the "small print" that follows.
Christians are way more diverse than you realize. that only 51% of Protestant Christians favor the GOP, while 41% favor the Democrats? https://www.pewresearch.org/re... [pewresearch.org]. That's a significant percentage of Christians who don't fit the stereotype you have presented.
You support the lie that it's a duty of Christians to power intervene in society to force it to conform to Christian notions of decency
N
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You are saying one thing with the "large print" and the opposite with the "small print" that follows.
I reserve the right to write using figures of speech such as hyperbole. It's part of the toolset of the language, and the fact it doesn't imply absolute assertions is a baseline presumed knowledge of anyone who went through high school.
51% of Protestant Christians favor the GOP, while 41% favor the Democrats
Those numbers don't say much. The organizations I refer to aren't supported exclusively by GOP-aligned Christians. And, more importantly, they aren't fought against by most Christians who dislike their lying but agree with their end goals. There are Christians who do actively
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You just can't resist generalizing, can you! I won't continue to point out the fallacy in that kind of reasoning.
I believe that so-called "anti-racism" is merely *reverse* racism.
I believe religious parents have a right to control what their children can watch, in accordance with their beliefs. That is not the same as saying that Christian notions of decency should be forced on everyone. YOU made that logical leap. I did not bring "Christian activism" into this conversation, YOU did that. I am, in general,
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You just can't resist generalizing, can you!
Did you learn of figures of speech during your English Literature classes?
I believe that so-called "anti-racism" is merely *reverse* racism.
Then you have dedicated little time to the topic and are basing your view on stereotypes.
I am, in general, opposed to Christian activism.
For which I stand corrected and, as I said before, I apologize.
Christianity was never about political control, it was always about showing love for one's fellow man.
Indeed. That's what Jesus intended, yes. Too bad there's little agreement among Christians on what, precisely, showing love means.
Re:Good. Steam is a CHILDREN FRIENDLY platform. (Score:4, Informative)
> People with no social skills and absolutely no credibility
Ad hominem and gaslighting much?
The actual issue is that a payment processors should NOT be able to dictate HOW a payment is to be used. What's next, banning purchases over books? movies? Payment processors should NOT be arbitrators of morality.
> Steam is meant to be a child friendly platform
[Citation] and [Bullshit].
You DO realize that adult games are hidden by default AND you need to be logged in to see them, right?
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Steam has always had adult controls on it, and the existence of Family Mode with the ability for an account holder to set a PIN which, if not entered, will only show a subset of the games, suggests you're not talking about Steam at all.
You don't want titties with your mass killings? (Score:4, Insightful)
People with no social skills and absolutely no credibility will say that this is a bad thing but the fact is Steam is meant to be a child friendly platform that is actively targeted towards people who are underage and so I would personally consider any of the games impacted by this to be the sort of game that probably should have been removed from the platform years ago anyway.
Steam should be censoring more games, and removing the ones that Provide so little value that the authors have to build this kind of thing into the game to try to sell it to somebody, but in reality they are targeting our children so the game should be removed.
Nearly every hit game is a mass-killing simulator. You have the grossly brutal ones like Mortal Kombat and Doom. 99% of FPS simulate mass murder. I'd wager most RTS games have even higher bodycounts. Even Super Mario Brothers has constant murder. So unless you're only playing sports games or a select few non-violent games, you're simulating violence...even if it's comical, like Donkey Kong. So yeah, sex is uncomfortable to talk about, but I hope my kids someday have lots of fulfilling sex. I hope they don't go around murdering demons, shooting tons of people, or even jumping on turtles.
It's FUBAR that Americans are so cool with murder and guns and killing...but a fucking nipple???...clutch the pearls...can't watch a girl masturbate...that's EEEEEEEEVIL....but if she wears what is basically a bikini and swings a sword to mass casualties...it's only a little cringe...just because her butt is hanging out?...and if she wears proper armor and kills 10,000 in an hour?...that's a fun game for the whole family????
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When you are about to come, you do not care about kings and laws. You feel like God. "They" will not let you escape their control. Not even for an instant. Combined with pulling in the reins even tighter with money, there will be fewer babies being made from all current generations in the Western sphere of influence. (your nations are all fictitious, the true rulers are not bound by the concept of nations. Trump is NOT at the top)
Re: Good. Steam is NOT a CHILDREN FRIENDLY platfor (Score:2)
Re: Good. Steam is a CHILDREN FRIENDLY platform. (Score:2)
Re: Good. Steam is a CHILDREN FRIENDLY platform. (Score:2)
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Payment providers are not allowed to work with Russian companies or Russian game developers because of sanctions and so this is a way for them to clean house and get rid of all the aggressive and violently hateful Russians on the platform.
Payment providers don't work with game developers anyway. Payment providers work with Steam. Steam can't pay developers in certain countries, and they therefore presumably aren't eligible to sell on the Steam store.
So no, this has nothing to do with who gets the money. No matter what, Steam gets the money, and Steam pays somebody else.
Re: A much needed Russian Games/GameDevs purge (Score:2)
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