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Games Entertainment

Playstation 2 Specs 97

Posted by Hemos from the tekken-3000 dept.
CerebusUS was the first to send specs for Sony's unveiled Playstation 2. Currently, Wired is also carrying some interesting information regarding the new machine as well. Some of the more tasty highlights include a confirmed 55 million polys/second, 128-bit CPU, along with a FPU and two floating point vector units. Total: 5 billion floating-point calcs per second. 500 mips with compiler optimization. /me wipes drool from face.
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Playstation 2 Specs More

Playstation 2 Specs

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  • Every time a new piece of any sort of hardware is released, people never fail to ask, "cool! does it run linux?", amidst much slobbering and buck-toothed stupid grinning. I have to wonder, if any of these people are actually serious, if they're stupid enough to wonder the same about, say, a 900 MHz cordless phone.

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad

  • No matter how fast these things get, they're going to keep looking like crap as long as the output device is a standard television.
  • ..will it run *BSD or Linux? ;>
  • Posted by Scott Francis[Mechaman]:

    There are, but none can play games yet. The closest one is SSEmu, and all it can do is play music off the CDs(and the author stopped work on it several months ago). The main reason is that there isn't much interest in the "scene" for the Saturn, which is a shame, since it was capable of keeping up (especially in 2D) with the PSX. Most of the good games were import-only, evidence that Sega still has no idea how to market. However, there has been some more interest(someone was developing a C core for the SH2), so we may get something eventually.
    I wanna play Sakura Taisen now...
  • I think the Jaguar used to claim to be a 64-bit system, because it had two 32-bit CPUs running in parallel. Does that mean an SMP PII x 4 system is actually a 128-bit system? I don't think so...

    So how do you define the bit-width of a CPU?

    I am thinking that the maximum width of the CPU's accumulator register is the defining characteristic.

    6502 - A, 8 bits
    286 - AX, 16 bits
    386 - EAX, 32 bits

    --Threed
  • Where is bittedness defined? Are we to let marketing define our CPUs for us? Does the IEEE have a standard definition for the bittedness of a CPU?

    I've always taken it as granted that most registers in a given CPU will be the size of the accumulator, and that defines the CPU's bittedness. It bugs me that a lot of the marketing hype for these games is based on FALSE claims of inflated bittedness.

    Console system people can go ahead and say their system is twice as fast, or has more games, or can do X ammount of polys per second, but they'd best be able to back up their claims.

    I looked at the IEEE briefs about the CPUs that were detailed (which is what led to this story), and not a single one claimed to be "128-bit". So I conclude that someone at Sony is blowing smoke. I bet it's a marketer. An engineer would know better.

    --Threed

  • Hmm. (Score:1)

    by dougman ( 908 )
    If Intel keeps making such miniscule advances in CPU technology, it might be 18 months instead of 6-12 months after the Playstation2 debut before we have a fully usable emulator. Damn.

    Personally, I'm waiting for Mortal Death Kill Street Fighter Kombat Carnage 8000. With secret boss charachter Rob Malda. With the world's first bowling ball fatality.


  • Actually, the jaguar claimed it was a 64 bit machine because of its "Tom and Jerry" custom processors. It was not a fully 64 bit machine, but the parts of it that necessitated 64 bit processing were given those capabilities. It had essentially 3 processors. There was a 68000 that controlled the direction the code was to be processed, and it pushed the code to one of the two graphics processors (Tom and Jerry). As you know, the 68000 is a 32 bit processor, but it was just a controller really, and it didn't need the 64 bit capabilities for the job it was assigned.

    Just because a machine isn't 64 bit across the board doesn't mean it isn't a 64 bit machine. It was 64 bits where needed.
  • Jaguar FAQ By Robert Jung (Last update 3/31/1999)

    http://www.classicgaming.com/museum/jaguar.shtml

    Q. Was the Jaguar really a 64-bit system?

    A. The question is hard to resolve, largely because the definition of what
    constitutes an "N-bit" system has not been set. Of the five processors in
    the Jaguar, only the object processor and the blitter are "true" 64-bit
    components. Because the blitter and the object processor are in the Tom
    chip, by extension Tom is a 64-bit chip. Furthermore, the Jaguar also used
    a 64-bit memory architecture, according to Jez San of Argonaut Software.

    Some say the Jaguar should be considered a 32-bit system, as that is the
    maximum register size in the programmable processors (the 68000, the
    graphics processor, and the DMA sound processor). Others say the Jaguar
    can be considered a 64-bit system, because 64-bit components are used, and
    the GPU can access 64 bits of data if required. Again, the lack of an
    agreed-upon definition serves to complicate the issue.

    According to Jaguar designer John Mathieson, "Jaguar has a 64-bit memory
    interface to get a high bandwidth out of cheap DRAM. ... Where the system
    needs to be 64 bit then it is 64 bit, so the Object Processor, which takes
    data from DRAM and builds the display is 64 bit; and the blitter, which
    does all the 3D rendering, screen clearing, and pixel shuffling, is 64 bit.
    Where the system does not need to be 64 bit, it isn't. There is no point
    in a 64 bit address space in a games console! 3D calculations and audio
    processing do not generally use 64-bit numbers, so there would be no
    advantage to 64 bit processors for this.

    "Jaguar has the data shifting power of a 64 bit system, which is what
    matters for games, so can reasonably be considered a 64 bit system. But
    that doesn't mean it has to be 64 bits throughout."

    For the record, the opinion of most third party developers and observers
    is that the Jaguar is indeed a 64-bit system. The emphasis is on the word
    "system"; while not every component is 64 bits, the Jaguar architecture, as
    a COMPLETE SYSTEM, is.

    Q. The Jaguar used a 68000. Isn't that the CPU?

    A. Again, quoting from Jaguar designer John Mathieson, "It may be the CPU in
    the sense that it's the centre of operation, and boot-straps the machine,
    and starts everything else going; however, it is not the centre of Jaguar's
    power. ... The 68000 is like a manager who does no real work, but tells
    everybody else what to do."

    And...

    "Atari were keen to use a 68K family device, and we looked closely at
    various members. We did actually build a couple of 68030 versions of the
    early beta developers systems, and for a while were going to use a 68020.
    However, this turned out too expensive. We also considered the possibility
    of no [Motorola 680x0 chip] at all. I always felt it was important to have
    some normal processor, to give developers a warm feeling when they start.
    The 68K is inexpensive and does that job well. I maintain that it's only
    there to read the joysticks."

    Q. How could a graphics processor be the CPU?

    A. The 64-bit custom graphics chip was a good general purpose RISC unit, but
    it had been optimized for graphics work. Developers were free to specify
    which processor(s) to use in a program, as desired.
  • Yes, for now it beats the specs of a PC, but so did the original PSX when it came out. Soon after, if not before this thing comes out, PC's will be able to do render just as many Polys. And they STILL don't compare to the flexibility of a PC. And please not another 2x drive. Now as someone previously mentioned, if these things will double as a DVD player, and they cost 300 or less, I will get one for sure.

  • Drool (Score:1)

    by Innova ( 1669 )
    Your PC don't even come close. The PC's available when this console comes out should be superior to it, but right now there is nothing that even comes close. In the article it says that the PSX-2 can do 55 million polygons a second with no effects or 13 million polygons a second with lighting, fog, and bezier curves. The Voodoo3, which isn't available until early summer will do 8 million polygons a second and has no hardware support for bezier curves.
  • Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but Parasite Eve?
    It was an extremely short game with some decent movies. While FF7 is has some annoying moments, it has the advantage of more non-linearity in the story, and longer, more varied play.
  • It still costs a tenth of the money, and requires no set-up.

    For me, the reason PCs will always beat consoles, is the lack of a keyboard and mouse. Just try playing Quake with a joypad...
  • What PSX 2.0 really needs is an SVGA output, so that you could plug it into a monitor and get high-res output. Think of it - if you have a TV, it will output NTSC. Or, you could put it next to your PC, and plug it into your monitor. Then you could run those games at 1024x768. Of course, it could be a configuration nightmare.


    --
    Timur "too sexy for my code" Tabi, timur@tabi.org, http://www.tabi.org
  • Hey I bet this would have the horsepower to play Gran Tourismo and simulate car damage. (A key feature in any good two player driving game where my friends are concerned...)

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Actually the jag has both 32 and 64 bit processors. Many arguments about the "64-bittedness" of the machine have followed. Whatever you call it, it's still a fun little machine. :-)
  • Backwards compatibility! Come on Sony, a DVD-ROM drive will read those old PSX games, and there's a huge market full of them. Imagine the boost the new system would get at launch from kids being able to play hundreds of games already in rental stores and their own collections!


    Backwards compatibility is a minus point for the manufacturer. Consoles are generally sold at a loss, subsidised by the licensing fees from games (and profits from games published directly by the manufacturer). It is in the manufacturer's best interest to have customers replace their old games rather than continuing to play them. I don't think a small increase in early hardware sales due to the attraction of backwards compatibility outweighs the reduced games sales.

  • Backwards compatibility! Come on Sony, a DVD-ROM drive will read those old PSX games, and there's a huge market full of them. Imagine the boost the new system would get at launch from kids being able to play hundreds of games already in rental stores and their own collections!


    Backwards compatibility is a minus point for the manufacturer. Consoles are generally sold at a loss, subsidised by the licensing fees from games (and profits from games published directly by the manufacturer). It is in the manufacturer's best interest to have customers replace their old games rather than continuing to play them. I don't think a small increase in early hardware sales due to the attraction of backwards compatibility outweighs the reduction in games sales.

  • Backwards compatibility! Come on Sony, a DVD-ROM drive will read those old PSX games, and there's a huge market full of them. Imagine the boost the new system would get at launch from kids being able to play hundreds of games already in rental stores and their own collections!

    Backwards compatibility is a minus point for the manufacturer. Consoles are generally sold at a loss, subsidised by the licensing fees from games (and profits from games published directly by the manufacturer). It is in the manufacturer's best interest to have customers replace their old games rather than continuing to play them. I don't think a small increase in early hardware sales due to the attraction of backwards compatibility outweighs the reduction in games sales.

  • I expect that Sony will do the first step for us - namely, porting egcs.
  • OK, I'm extremely pleased to see what Sony's putting under the hood, but my two biggest questions are left unanswered: 1.Will Sony have the marketing saavy to take the obviously available step, since the system will likely be DVD-ROM based and as we now also know, will include a decoder? I hope so. In 1984, Nintendo was able to completely saturate what was thought at the time to be a dry market, the home video game system, by marketing their NES as an "entertainment system." If the next Sony console could double as a DVD player, much the same as today's PSX can double as a CD player and even a Video CD player (with an accessory), it would roll out the red carpet for it to waltz into every living room in the US, after all it would be optimal timing, the US is still catching on to DVD... 2. Will Sony give gamers the one feature they've been crying out for since the Atari 7800 in 1985? Backwards compatibility! Come on Sony, a DVD-ROM drive will read those old PSX games, and there's a huge market full of them. Imagine the boost the new system would get at launch from kids being able to play hundreds of games already in rental stores and their own collections! And even if they just ran in soft emulation, it sounds like the new machine would have plenty of horsepower left over. Sony has dominated the market for over 3 years now, and they've obviously stil got the ball. Now let's see them run with it. SAVE THE BATS -Khyron
  • How many megs does it take to describe/display 55 million polys(just the data, excluding textures, effects, AI, etc)? Ill bet a whole lot more then will be in a console(at least in the near future). Heck, even a million takes up a lot, then throw in textures, movement routines, AI, special effects, and what not, all in a max of 32mb ram(my high end estimate) and id say youd get a max of 3 to 5 mil(probably WAY over on this guess) with some effects on. This is totally a HYPE machine.

    Do you think they can release this for under $200 with DVD, 32mb ram, this processor, and all the other stuff? Doubt it. And what about the development enviroment? Sure, the WinCE based Dreamcast is in with MS, but it sure does make those PC games eiaser to port :)

    My bet on the PSX2.
    Arrives winter 2000 in japan(unless they already have a TON of games done, which I doubt), 2001 in the US

    it will have a total of 32mb ram

    DVD

    retail--$250


  • Oh yeah, the actual poly count for the machine will be 4 to 6 mil(but truly overinflated by maketing). Its not how much it could do that counts, it how much it will...
    (ancient 3d artist zen proverb)

  • You missed the point. Be it one polygon duplicated 55 million times or 55 million different polygons, it still takes ram to store the coordinate data, and its still 55 million polygons. The question is "How much". I know I can get a one million polygon model going in formZ, but it takes a boatload of ram. I just want a good ram/polygon ratio(ie, if it had a total of 32mb ram for just model data, how many poly could actually be stored in ram to be worked on).
  • Humm, two vector engines, 128 bits, all kinds of "extras" on chip. Sounds like a cross between a G4 Alti-vec and a Cyrix MediaGX. Has Sony been making deals?

    Oh, yes, and remember with dedicated hardware, it's much easier to reach target polygon speeds. That's why voodoo is so much faster for video than slapping another pentium into your system. (Even dedicated on the video card. I mean, ever heard of such a monstor? Can you say room heater? Good god. I'd hate to see a PIII quad-processor system, dual monitors {if you can find two damn cards that work together, like a mac} with those kind of video cards in them. The case would glow cherry-red.)

    Yet I ramble off subject, and make two subjects.

    But... Colaboration? Any ideas?
  • It does say what instructions - Dhrystones 2.1 - not the best benchmark in the world, but still very commonly used for embedded processors.
  • At 55 fps, that's 1 million poly/frame. For tessellated polygons, the average is 1 vertex / poly. Using floats, that's 3*4 bytes / poly. Add another 4 for color / texture map coords and I get 16 MB.

    But this is beside the point. As the article say, with this much vector floating point power, you use some for the rendering and the rest elsewhere - physics, fogging etc.

  • So... (Score:1)

    by Beek ( 10414 )
    Do you think it will be embraced as widely as the PSX was?

    (first?)
  • BIG HINT TO SONY:

    Instead of suing connectix, hire them!
  • Its very obvious that this fellow has never looked at a game that was released outside the US. Nintendo Power must be his favorite rag. Everyone knows the US developed console games suck. Only around 10% of the Japanese developed games make it to the US. Most of the remaining 90% are awesome games that obviously the Japanese fear the US market doesn't have the good taste to buy. BTW, with the exception to Mario, RUSH and Zelda, all N64 games suck. I would rather take a well developed PSX game (R-Type Delta, FF8, Metal Gear Solid) over an overrated N64 game anyday.

  • Boy are you misinformed...CE is not part of the Dreamcast's ROM set. The hardware is mearly capable of running CE. The Dream Passport CD for using your Dreamcast as a WebTV has a bootable version of CE. Belive me Sega is not paying $150 per machine for the CE licence included on that disk. So far none of the games released use CE. Besides all manufacturers spend to include CE on their PalmPCs is about $35 max.
  • Sweet. Is anyone planning to port Linux to PlayStation? I mean, that's some fast and cheap hardware. Visions of a Beowolf cluster of PlayStations... :)

  • Isn't that like saying that a pentium w/ a 64bit video card is a 64bit system? After all, pentiums had a 64bit memory bus, and your video card performance is very important in system performance for games and other things of the sort. Or hell, let's have a dual pentium and a 128bit video card. It doesn't work like that.
  • When is the Emulator Coming out for this one? ;)
  • You missed it. John Goodman already delivered a bowling ball fatality to Flea and his nihilist buddies in "The Big Lebowski."

    Sigh, true Art is always ahead of it's time...
  • Did anyone else notice that this name has been reserved :)
  • The US release date would be in 2000 - that's been established.

    Yes, I would love to see a PSX2 Real Soon Now, given the Dreamcast - but Sony is playing it cool and very wisely too.

    Just plain brilliant.
  • I hope that if it plays DVDs, they also include support for DIVX. I love DIVX. Who wouldn't?

    ;-)

    (heading to the trenches now...)

    Jason Dufair
    "Those who know don't have the words to tell

  • The hardware is subsidized.
  • $150?

    Horse shit. I am guessing the license is under $50
  • I think the note that one FPU is for "behaviors" along with the phrase "emotion engine" is very interesting. It suggests that AI may be a serious focus for this console.

    A lot of lipservice has been paid to improving game AI but when push comes to shove, R&D effort and CPU cycles go to the graphics engine. Dedicating a functional unit to this task may mean that someone is going to put their money where their mouth is.
  • Nuff said.

    senzuri
  • FYI, my Dreamcast has never locked up! It's beautiful!

    senzuri
  • Zelda?

    What's that? Mario wearing different clothes? Or Banja Kazooe (sic) wearing different clothes?

    What a sham.

    senzuri

  • Sonic Adventure doesn't push it? Okaaaay....
  • I've heard that Playstation 2 also has a solid metal covering for the prevention of moding. Is this rumor?

    Also, why is Sony going to all this effort to make this fast technology. I don't even think there is a TV out there that supports 180 fps. Or am I wrong?

    -Brainless
  • Sony should take whatever company is making those ridiculous VAIO's and have thenm talk to the playstation folks. Then have them talk to AMD. Mix all of that together and what would you get. A playstation with upgradable sound and video cards. A normal speed CD ROM possibly even a DVD player. with a chance to put some reall processinig power in there.
    That's all there is to it!!!! End of story. Get to it Sony!!! and whatever you do, stay away from INTEL, PLEASE, they don't know what the hell they are doing and when they will be doing it.
  • or an Apple IIc for that matter!!!
  • The window next to my computer is open partially. Does that count for anything???
  • N64 will never be able to top FF7 or FF8 for that matter with anything that they release (note that they never release on time). cough cough all of the zelda's cough cough. Shit FF8 just did 2.21 million copies on its release date on Thursday in Japan. Let's see Nintendo even attempt that. Without any of the third party companies that put them where they are today.
    Long live Playstation
  • Everyone seems to be drooling and gettin' all woody over this. Sure, it sounds cool, and the games would be fun but sheesh.. go outside and get some fresh air once in a while :-)
  • I think that the AC missed the gist of the post. Oh well... no loss :-)
  • Nascar has car damage.. and those are Ford's, Chevy's, and Pontiac's.. more or less :-) Granted they aren't street models...

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