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Games Entertainment

Playstation 2 to compete with Pentium III? 117

Posted by sengan from the welcome-to-the-new-world-of-information-appliances dept.
Anoop Sarkar writes "Interesting article in Gaming news about how Sony and Toshiba are likely to compete with Wintel in the near future (not just for the gaming market). I heard about it first on the Marketplace morning report on NPR. The actual release is sometime today so more news should be on its way. We need a Linux port to Playstation 2!" In related news, Intel is working on Pentium III only sites which will not only use KNI, but also that... cough! Serial Number.
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Playstation 2 to compete with Pentium III? More

Playstation 2 to compete with Pentium III?

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  • Um, it probably isn't far off already.

    Playstations, as you know, run MIPS chips (an R3K to be precise) and Indy systems also run MIPS chips (R4K through R5K). The Indy port of Linux should run on the Playstation with some modifications...

  • From Windows, I have no doubt there's some bogus ActiveX backdoor to run arbitrary native code. But Unix? They can run some Javascript, they can run Java, but they can't run arbitrary native binaries. So how exactly could they read this PSN on a Unix machine?

    --

  • bah (Score:1)

    by lilgorgor ( 7238 )
    intel propaganda makes me vomit
  • And I thought Microsoft was the only one who knew how to do it. Yeah, they're gonna get a whole _lot_ of publicity in _requiring_ PIIIs to access certain websites. Unfortunately, it'll all be negative.

    Pathetic.

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad

  • Damn! I was just about to submit that pentium/// only page! Well, I knew it couldn't be long. Of course they're not only going to put the universal-bar-code-for-your-forehead in all their processors, they're going to work with software developers to insure that you need it. That's just what we need, a quark installer that requires a psn. I'll stick with linuxPpc thank you.
  • Which, as Intel has pointed out, will run faster and have a quicker internet experience for those fortunate souls running the Pentium III. Sheesh. Maybe if they gave away a free T1 hookup w/ each p3. Now, That would be marketing.
  • Um, sure it does. Technically, it's an "R3000A" chip.

    Don't believe me? Look for yourself. [a-p-i.net]

  • This is the biggest bullshit I've heard since publishing IE/NS specific pages.

    If morons buy into this bullshit, then the WWW will become so diluted, as to be pathetic.

    What happened to ONE standard? HTML! If you author for more than that, you should be shot on sight.

    Put the Internet back where it belongs...

    TO EVERYONE. Not the haves and have-nots and the don't-choose-to-bes

  • I'm sure the PS2k will effectively be nice clean black box; put in DVD, press power, and play.

    Any 'OS' features would probably be a combination of ROM and CD, ie auto-booting you see on today's PCs.

    It's pretty easy to actually outperform a PC, since there is nowhere near as much overhead in a PS than in the traditional PC. Sony's strength is the plug and play(Sorry for that =) nature of the PSX, and most likely, the PS2k.

    Their machine may cost twice as much, but it will also probably have DVD playback, 3d sound via Dolby AC3 5.1, as well as support for 3d glasses(why not? Technology has almost made it feasable!), multiple inputs, and maybe even modem/internet accessability!

    It may be a good idea to create a PS2k and a PS2k+ with extra features not needed to play the traditional PS2k games.... Just an idea to separate into a chrome and black 400$ game machine, and a flat white 200$ game machine..

    AS
    AS
  • I almost ran my car off the road on, ummm, Friday, I think, listening to some Intelinside guy on the radio spout off how much richer the 'net experience will be w/ a p3. Good lord. I mean.....people will believe this stuff. But what happens when folks get their new shiny p3's and find that the access bandwidth they have w/ a 56k is just the same? Heh.

  • Let's see....If you turn off the Serial Number in your new PIII, You can't view PIII content, which means you basically bought the equivilant of a slightly faster PII. BUT, if you turn ON the Serial Number, you hand your privacy over to Intel in a Gift-Wrapped box.

    I think I can live without Intel's marketing crap.

    As for the Playstation II, I don't find it very interesting. A computer can do far more than a Game Console anyway. I must admit, Linux running on a Playstation WOULD be very interesting, but it's not enough to get me to run out and buy one. I'll take a well-equipped PC over a Game System any day.
  • They can't. That's why Unix users are all evil subversionist hackers. :-)

    Daniel
  • so in other words, in an effort to force people to buy the new, barely-improved Pentium III, Intel is now going to start paying web sites to install software to lock out non-PIII computers.

    Intel just makes me like them more and more.
  • Now, I have no idea what the difference between a typical R3000 and an R3000A is, nor do I particularly care, but I'd wager it's all in the packaging, voltage, etc. to make it cheaper and embedable. It make my PSX work very nicely, and gosh darnit, I like it that way! :)
  • If Intel is developing compresion technologies ala MPEG video, which takes hours to compress into incredibly tiny efficient packages, and significant(but easily done via SSE/KNI) processor time to decompress, then they really do have a solution to add richer more vibrant internet experiences...

    However, I can only think of one place where this may be applicable...

    Online porn. PIII and XXX campaigns? Eh, maybe!

    AS
    AS
  • The websites that succumb to Intel marketing kwap are the ones to lose out on this deal. I mean... If Intel manages to push PIII to 10% market share (not total Intel marketshare, but PIII only), that leaves the website managers with just a tiny fraction of users they would've otherwise served.

    My question is: How different is this from tracking the IP address of the machine or using browser cookies?
  • The idea is that they will have content for PIII-only plugins, not ActiveX controls and stuff like that. At least that's how I understood the article.
  • I really don't care if my CPU has an ID or not, but if Intel is going to try and market sites so that they require the ID to be turned on, that's just stupidity. I can't believe after all of the pounding Intel has taken over this from consumer privacy groups they would continue this subject. Gee, I wonder why AMD outsold Intel for the first time.

    AMD & Cyrix could have a lot of fun by also putting a CPU ID in their chips. They just need to put the SAME number in all of their chips. That would make Intel's site statistics real interesting.
  • Who do you want to know where you're going today?

    I'm just getting over a terrible head cold / food poisoning bout, and my brain is like a PIII w/o cache. Glad to know I haevn't lost it all just yet...

    --
  • We all saw how well those Disney et al. sites went when they "required" MSIE in order to be accessed. It didn't take long for them to reverse that decision.

    However, this is even dumber. No one is claiming that Intel chips and Windows aren't the parts with the most prevelance in the market currently. But whither the poor Linux user with a dual Pentium II 450? S/he obviously has enough power to run both X and Netscape with these websites open, but can't, because s/he lacks a processor ID and "KNI," which IMHO isn't all that great a step up from 3dnow!. Believe me, these sites will be few, far between, and used mainly for Intel to say "Wow, look how amazing our processor is! Now your web experience will be many times better, more efficient, and faster!"

  • Since many of us run Linux or some free OS, how hard would it be to write a driver that can be configured to spit out any PSN that the user desired? Hell, it might not even require modifying the kernel. If it is implemented in Netscape, a patch for mozilla might be all you need. So then people would start trading around PSN's just the same as they used to do those porn passwords. It would be easy for websites to pull PSN's from people's computers, thus destroying the validity and usefulness of the PSN. I have a strong feeling that this thing will be short lived.

    --
  • You wouldn't(I wouldn't, at least) want the PSX to do 'more', like your computer.

    A game console is not supposed to be a computer, any more than a TV is supposed to toast your bread, or your VCR to polish your shoes. My microwave can do things your well-equipped PC can't, so there =P

    But if you're not into games, then of course the PS2k won't be interesting to you, just like a new reflective/convective microwave wouldn't be of interest to me or you either. For developers it is much easier to target a PSX, with its fixed specs, APIs, and hardware, than a PC, what with Win98, WinNT, Linux and BeOS, and PowerPC with MacOS, Linux, and BeOS, as well as staggering amounts of APIS, hardware, and drivers to deal with...

    In reverse, it's the same in trying to get a game to run acceptably on a PC as opposed to a standard console...

    AS
    AS
  • Ah, but until games for Linux mature, you can spend the $100+ you would have spent on Windows to use your machine for games and put it towards a console. My only problems are that consoles do not have good strategy/rpg games (FFVII does not count, thank you very much) and because of licensing, games cost more for consoles.
  • Sega tends to be first. They were there first with the Genesis and then the SegaCD. They were there first with the Saturn. They'll be there first with Dreamcast. The Genesis worked out. The second two did not. We'll see how this last one goes.
  • This is no different than MS getting ISP's to make their "services" IE enhanced (read: IE ONLY). How did MS convince them to take this deal? Simple, pony up a large number of FREE NT licenses and Windows 95 licenses for the ISP.

    How is Intel getting people to do PIII only content? Simple, free hardware.

    This is a world of monopolistic bribery ... it's surprising that Intel isn't learning from MS's anti-trust follies.

    Oh well, my last Pentium chip is my PII 450, next will be an AMD K7 most likely.
  • First DreamCast has to derail the jaugernaut that is the current PlayStation before it even has to deal with the PS2k...

    Who cares about performance and numbers if the games don't live to the hype? First of all, Sega needs to deal with the fact that it has to deal with 2 market leaders, N64 and PSX. Can you imagine, 2 million pre-orders for FFVIII in Japan for a measly PSX? Or a half million pre-orders for Zelda64 on the 64 bit N64? First target would be to woo Square and simliar companies to DreamCast...

    Good Luck!

    AS
    AS
  • I never said that Game Consoles didn't serve their purpose. They do, and do it very well. My point was, when you buy a game console, that's what you're buying. Games. And if you're into games, by all means, Spend your money on a Console! :)

    (P.S.: The intro to Resident Evil 2 was INCREDIBLE!)

    Accipiter
  • Exactly.

    I'd LOVE to know how they are going to do this *and* guarantee that the serial number is real.

    It all reeks of security through obscurity.

    The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.

  • "HTTP_ACCEPT","image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, image/x-jg, */*"
    "HTTP_USER_AGENT","Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Update a; AOL 3.0; Windows 95)"
    "HTTP_IF_MODIFIED_SINCE","798781954"
    "REMOTE_ADDR","205.188.154.10"
    "SERVER_PROTOCOL","HTTP/1.0"
    "REQUEST_METHOD","GET"
    "HTTP_REFERER","http://wonderland.illtel.denver. co.us/texts/sorority.html"
    "HTTP_ACCEPT-LANGUAGE","en"
    "HTTP_UA-PIXELS","800x600"
    "HTTP_UA-COLOR","color8"
    "HTTP_UA-OS","Windows 95"
    "HTTP_UA-CPU","x86"
    "HTTP_HOST","phobos.illtel.denver.co.us"
    "HTTP_EXTENSION","Security/Remote-Passphrase"
    "HTTP_MAX-FORWARDS","65535"
    "HTTP_VIA","1.0 AOL tserver2[ a9abccd] (Traffic-Server/1.1.7(8) [ 1])"
  • Hey, at least one Ultima was released on a
    console -- I remember playing some version
    of Ultima on my old NES. It was pretty sweet,
    except it was too easy to run out of food, if
    I remember right. Reminds me a bit of ADOM in
    that respect.
  • Go back and reread the article.

    That $840 price they mentioned was the price of PCs there run around $840... not the Playstation. It said it will cost *less* than a PC, so you've got a max price of $840.

    I'm guessing $349 to start...
  • You're right about the DCT using integer...

    I'm actually curious what prevents a modern day P2-450 from doing full-screen DVD playback acceptably? Usually constrained to a 320-200 window or something...

    Is it just Win-Bloat interfering?

    AS
    AS

  • User: "Computer, go to aitch tee tee pee colon slash slash intel dot com" Computer: Connecting to http://www.intel.com/ User: "Computer, go to aitch tee tee pee colon slash slash slash dot dot org slash" Computer: Connecting to http:///..org/

    More likely:

    User: "My car sucks..."
    Computer: "Connecting to carpoint.msn.com..."
    User: "...and I want to Hawaii...
    Computer: "Connecting to expedia.msn.com..."
    User: "...And I need a new TV..."
    Computer: "Connecting to sidewalk.msn.com..."
    User: "...and I forgot, what is the difference between a compiled and interpreted language..."
    Computer: "Connecting to encarta.msn.com..."

    Scary?

  • http://www.eetimes.com/story/industry/semiconducto r_news/OEG19990219S0002

    http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/ 17952.html

    I had a much better version of the article, but here are the highpoints:

    *250Mhz processors with bus running at 125Mhz

    * with compiler optimizations will deliver 500 Dhrystone Mips

    * three processing units which work in relative independence, linked by internal 128-bit buses to
    deliver estimated performance of 5 Gflops or 30 million polygons/second with lighting and fog features enabled.

    * effective bus bandwidth of 1.7 Gbytes/second and supports two Direct Rambus channels

    * implements all the MIPS III and most MIPS IV instructions in addition to 107 new SIMD multimedia instructions such as parallel add/subtract, multiply/divide and min/max operations. Toshiba and Sony are not disclosing details on 17 of the new instructions

    * Includes hardware support for Bezier curves in 3D (stuff used by Carmak for cool shapes) and DVD playback

    * Many details of the system are still unclear-including a graphics chip designed by Sony that is said to contain as many as 20 million transistors

    From memory, this is supposed to be able to support HDTV-resolutions and the API's/hardware will be optimized with this as the max number of pixels to deal with.

    All said and done, this thing has the potential to outperform even a Voodoo3. Given the general quality/optimization of currently playstation API's and code, programmers will be able to make games with almost DVD-quality. I'm routinely stunned by the quality squeezed out of the measly 33Mhz R3k.

    Since I don't own a DVD player, I'll pay $500 for one of these things. I want it. Bad.
  • As a frequent reader of the HTML newsgroups (and
    the daily battle over specs and accessibility),
    I remember that someone mentioned a new law in
    Australia that all sites must be accessible to
    anyone with a computer and modem, as part of a disability law. And as a result, several sites did have to shut down to compily with this law.

    Hmm, Intel wanting another lawsuit?

    (Remember, it's ok to offer something like video
    or audio that you need certain requirements for,
    as long as you have either duplicated the content
    in a more accessible format (text), or if its
    unnecessary to get to the content).
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I see nothing in BG that couldn't be replicated on a console system (using CD's mind you) except for the hotkeys. Criminy, it's diablo with cool backgrounds.

    Long as you're willing to put up with a lousy cumbersome interface, you could run pretty much any game. I know I wouldn't want to play Alpha Centauri without a keyboard, for example.

  • lintel (Score:1)

    by arielb ( 5604 )
    Maybe we'll see sites that are only for Pentium III VA Research PC's running Redhat linux
  • who get's in where...

    Sounds like segretation to me.

    What? You use Intel's crap? Get lost!

    Heh? What's that? You a AMD user? Go somewhere else.

    Huh? Cyrix? Stop taking up server bandwidth!

    It would be so simple to turn the PIII id code into an ANTI-PIII screening process. The irony might just be a web message to PIII users:

    Error: Insufficient Processing Power to access this web page.
    Please upgrade upgrade to AMD K7 or better.


    - Wing
    - Reap the fires of the soul.
    - Harvest the passion of life.

  • Ummmm (Score:1)

    by Danse ( 1026 )

    From what I've read, the performance increase is very modest. After checking some prices, it looks like you can get a PIII 450 for about $50 more than a PII 450, so many people may go ahead and buy a PIII instead. I just hate the fact that they spew all that crap about how it will make the net a much richer experience. The chip isn't going to do that. It takes bigtime bandwidth to make things more interesting. Unfortunately, they are allowed to make totally unsupported statements (stated as if they were fact) and then proceed to shout them from the mountaintop. People recognize this kind of thing when it comes from a shoe company or a even a car company sometimes, but when a tech company says things like this and then backs it up with meaningless techno-jargon, they believe it. Sad really.

  • Ok then...

    What do you do if you want to include content that goes beyond what is defined by the HTML standard?

    I'm actually posing a serious question, not flaming. I'm developing (make that: trying to develop) a website right now that has all sorts of fancy, on-the-fly stuff (actually an online game). Except I've run into the problem that a lot of the stuff I want to do simply isn't supported by HTML. I'm basically left with only a couple of options:

    • Java. Not really acceptable. For one, the application would be extremely large, since there are a lot of graphics. Also, a lot of browsers don't support Java anyway, so any advantage dies there.
    • JavaScript/VBarfScript. Not powerful enough on their own. Combined with other stuff, it can work. See below. Besides. VBarfScript is MS-proprietary, again killing any browser-independance advantages.
    • Funky plugins, à la Shockwave. Maybe, except for the overhead cost. This is probably the "best" solution, except I simply don't have the money to sink into buying the licenses and stuff.
    • ActiveX. I won't even entertain the thought (for what I think are obvious reasons). If you can give me any good reason why I should, speak now or forever hold your peace.
    • So what I've ended up going with is a hodge-podge of approaches. The back-end is CGI in perl, which serves one of two sets of pages, depending on the browser. If you're MSIE, it serves DHTML (IE-specific) pages that can respond adequately to the user. If you're Netscape, it serves "standard" pages that use a clunky combination of JavaScript and CSS/Layers (Layers being Netscape-specific) to more-or-less achieve the desired result. If you don't have either NS or IE, you're SOL. I don't like it, but that's the only realistic solution I can come up with.

    So what do you reccomend? If anyone has any ideas, I'd be more than glad to entertain them!
    --
    - Sean
  • Well, I'm afraid I have to disacree with you on this one.

    Personally, never liked the FF series that much; my speed is more Daggerfall, Ultima Online, Civilization, etc... where in the first, you have absolutely no obligation to follow the storyline, and the game can still be just as entertaining, in the second, there is no set storyline, or in the third, you can happily ignore everyone else (except for the occasional border defense), and do whatever the hell you wanna do with the game for a couple of centuries.

    I've been playing the same character in Daggerfall for getting on 2 years now, and still haven't advanced much past about 1/4 the way through the "official" story. In fact, I pretty much ignore the built-in storyline except for when I come across it accidentally, and yet, I'm still having a lot of fun with the game.

    Civilization (Civ 1... still the best), I still play 2 or 3 times through per week. It's freeform, randomized maps, with little to no enforced direction make for infinite playability, which I love!

    Once those types of games come out for a console system, I may seriously consider getting one, otherwise I'll stick to playing games on my PC.

    But again, that's just my $0.02... :-)
    --
    - Sean
  • Has anyone heard the rumors going around that Intel might try to get the cable modem people to build the equivalent of "winmodems" that need a PIII to work?

    That could be one way the PIII could enhance (quote unquote) your internet experience.
  • Yeah, but we're also talking about greater than V3-4000 level performance, where a V3-3500 itself costs 249$...
    So take your Cyrix for 400$, slap in 2 V3-3500 just to be generous, and the price goes to 900$ for a barely comparable system...

    It will still be a bargain.

    AS
    AS
  • Ok, I think I see what you mean by losing nothing and gaining some by using Java. But what I was really trying to get at was that any way I did it, there was no way of writing the pages without excluding some browsers, much as I hate to do it (note that I actually agree with the original poster, in that on general principle, people who knowingly exclude users from using their stuff should be shot).

    And the thing with Java is that I would have to load all the graphics in one huge lump at the beginning, which would be many, many megabytes (as it currently stands). The way I'm currently doing it, you just load the graphics that you need on each page, which would currently come out to less than 50k per page, absolute max (actually, usually a lot less). The game itself spreads out across several hundred pages, not all of which are necessarily loaded. Only about 1/6th of the total pages are needed to be accessed to finish the game, the rest are just there for extra "diversions" and stuff. Basically, there are a lot of graphics which may not ever be seen by any given player. I tend to regard it as being a bit of a waste to make each player download all of that, regardless of whether or not they need it.

    Of course, I will be releasing the source (prolly GPL or something), so anyone who wants to make a port (to Java, or whatever else) will be able to.
    --
    - Sean
  • Well, hopefully that will be part of the PS2k standard, won't it?

    Then no one would ever need to buy a PC to play games; PC for work, console for games!

    Whatever =) Still, specialization and distribution of responsibility works in general, rather than having one device try to do everything(See Win98 as the OS that does everything, and nothing well...)

    AS
    AS
  • This page best viewed with a monitor.


    This information best processed with a brain.
    --
    - Sean
  • ---By the way i made some spelling errors so deal with it----


    The Sega DreamCast has a modem and uses widows ce of the cds so lets hope that playstation does not do the same thing, it seams like they are not.....

    Also so i have read that playstation2 will not be able to play normal dvd's due to the fact that it would take money away from sony dvd sales......

    One bad thing about sony it they are so damb propiatary with there stuff. Did you ever try to buy a battery for a sony phone. You pay twise at much just because there plug is a little different than the cheaper one.

    just my 2 cents

    also i do have a playstation and use it allot
    --
    Joshua Curtis
    Lancaster Co. Linux Users Group

  • Ok (Score:1)

    by SeanNi ( 18947 )
    Yeah... you're right... I prolly shouldn't have said that... I'm not sure anymore exactly what I was disagreeing with.

    Actually, still not quite sure why I posted that in the first place... some innate desire to make my voice heard, whether I had anything useful to say or not.

    Just like right now...

    ... /me ambles off to try and sort out his confused state of mind.

    Peace, brothers!
    --
    - Sean
  • Hey for a free T1 i'd buy a pIII, i'd even keep the serial number turned on, of cource i'd run linux on the system so I'd know that it wouldn't actually be read by anything.

  • Wow! I managed to not understand a word the Intel spokesman said. I guess that means I'm not allowed to buy a PIII or something, huh?

  • Posted by OGL:

    Console wars are fine for 12 year olds, but lets keep them out of slashdot. If you really like console gaming that much, but BOTH systems and stop whining about which one is better.

    -W.W.

  • Um, ActiveX controls are always written in native code. Sorry to spoil any illusions of safety you might have had. ActiveX controls intended for use with IE should be considered similar to plugins and treated with the same degree of caution.
  • today in one of the major newspapers (The Australian,www.theaustralian.com.au ) Toshiba have taken out full-page colour advertisments along the lines of 'toshiba, your trust friend'. Wonder why?

  • Can someone 'splain to me how a new CPU - faster, slower or indifferent - is going to speed up Internet access?? Can it cram more bits into the phone line? Can it speed up electricity?

    We need someone in the public eye (someone to whom the media listens) to break through the public ignorance that makes these damn PIII commercials look good to the average shmoe.
    We need the public to know that Wintel preys on the public's lack of technical knowledge.

    An informed customer is a wannabe monopolists worst nightmare. All my chips thus far have been Intel's, but the next one won't be, unless this PIII abomination dies in pain.
  • <plug>

    That's what Legions [legions.com] is for!

    </plug>

    :-)

  • Ok.

    I confess I don't know a hell ofr a lot about Java. I honestly didn't know that you could do that (stream it using HTTP).
    --
    - Sean

  • HDTV (Score:1)

    by Fizgig ( 16368 )
    Anybody know how the PS2 and Dreamcast will ramp up with HDTV? The current generation of consoles are fast, but they're displaying at 320x200 and nobody can tell the differenc. I hear some PSX games run at a higher resolution, but it's not like that does any good. So, does anybody know if the next-gen consoles will take advantage of the higher resolution (still not quite a computer's, but it'll do) or even the widescreen format?
  • Well, this is how they are going to make their marketing slogan true.
  • Yeah...
    Console wars have as much place on /. as desktop environment wars, or OS wars, or distribution wars, or future CPU standard wars...

    Um, well...
    Take it either way, I guess, but I think they all belong or go as a group. As long as it's discussion and fairly civil, and not just flamebait or trash talking...

    AS
    AS
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Boycott PIII and PIII-serial code using sites!
    Also, boycott Windows 95/98/NT3/NT4/NT5 because it is required to activate the serial code.
  • He he heh. HAH HA HA HAHA AHAHA.

    Ohohoh.

    Oh how such a short period of time can change everything. It's going to piss all over the Dreamcast.

  • > For what it is worth the dreamcast will be backwardly compadible with the Saturn.

    No it isn't. But the PSX2 is backwardly compatible with the PSX. How? It has a R3000A embedded in the IO chip.

    Hoho.

  • It's only got 2, you probably read that it has 16Mbit of RAM, since until recently (and still in the Nintendo world) cartridges, memory, etc were expressed in bits. Oh, btw, Gamespot Japan is reporting that the PSX2 will be using Linux as the Development OS ;)
  • Okay, the Playstation 2 will be fast. But will it run rc5des?

    -Chris
  • You may want to look at Crossfire. Crossfire is a multiplayer graphical adventure game that has a java client. See http://www.bolthole.com/jcrossclient/ [bolthole.com]
  • Let's boycott Slashdot. It uses cookies -->
    Big brother tactics.

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