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Games Entertainment

Blockbuster to use Divx-scheme for PC Games? 39

Posted by CmdrTaco from the this-is-gonna-get-wacky dept.
Fizgig writes "At Wired is a story about how Blockbuster is going to start renting computer games with a Divx scheme, charging $6 for the CD and 72 hours to play it, more for additional hours. I don't know that I like the business-guy's use of the phrase "one-to-one marketing" Well, at least it all seems interesting. "
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Blockbuster to use Divx-scheme for PC Games? More

Blockbuster to use Divx-scheme for PC Games?

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  • Good Idea (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think this is a good idea. There are many games which are either won within two or three days of starting it or are just plain bad and are not worth the $30-$50 that they cost.

    I'm sure that the protection scheme will be cracked, but that shouldn't stop rentals of the games (infact, it would probably increase rentals of the games); most protection on today's retail games is cracked within a day of it being released.

  • Comparison to Divx justified? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The reason Divx won't work is because it is an attempt to re-implement something which already works fine. But computer games are not currently rented at rental places, so I don't think this will suffer the same eventual fate of Divx since this is not an attempt to re-implement computer game rentals, it's an attempt to implement computer game rentals.

  • Mixed -- the good and the bad (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Being able to rent games is a good thing. It works for the Nintendo and the like. Renting games on the PC is good. But I wonder what it is about this particular model that the consumer could find appealing?

    They get to keep a CD that has the game. The pay for the first time they play it, and if they want to play it again later, they pay again.

    But as a consumer, the mixed-models of sales, ownership, licensing, and rental is something I don't want to deal with. (Thank God I don't have children to try to explain it to. And they would be horrible about seeing the CD and wanting to play it.)

    If I have a CD, I want to play it. I don't want to have to license additional rental time for it. I'd rather have something that I return to the store when I'm done and rent it again if I still want to play it.

    But they don't like that model because they're afraid I am going to pirate the CD. It is clear to me that this unique sales/rental/license hybrid is made to benefit them much more than it does myself. At least apply the cost of my rental towards the purchase of the game -- THAT would make it worth my while.

    Comparing to DIVX? Well, at least they don't put licensed ownership into the mix, which is a plus.
    DIVX is an incredibly inappropriate mix of licensing, ownership, pay-per-view, and rental, with no real cost benefit.

    I'm not morally opposed to it, but geez, if I'm going to go through the hassle, make it worth my while and give me a price break on the purchase. I'd certainly be more willing to try a game if I knew that I wasn't throwing money away.

    MARKETING DROIDS: People will pay for the advertisement (read: 72 hour trial) if they can put that payment towards getting the real product.
  • Can't work that way, the DIVX player is supposed to be usable even if your phone service is down for a while. Therefore the decryption must take place with information from the disc and the player only. Unless Circuit City is lying about being able to play discs even if you can't phone in right then, of course.
    However, since the decryption is probably done by dedicated custom hardware, it's a bit difficult to reverse engineer it.

  • Unlike the proprietary console games that Blockbuster rents -- which work almost flawlessly -- computer games are notoriously difficult to install and configure. And they often cause computer crashes.

    Only because Windows is so poorly designed.

    This is a bad idea and I doubt it will be any more successful than divx. Installing and running Windows games is a couple notches below rocket science, and I doubt there will be much support available from these guys (unless they want to go broke).

    I don't think I want the remnants of ten or twenty Windows games (that I may never use again) lingering on my disk, either.

    No, thanks.

  • But it could be worse. After all, first Blockbuster has to get game makers to make the games support that format. And I seriously doubt any game makers are going to do that, because most of the hardcore gamers are techno-savvy enough to know about Divx. The fallout would simply be too great. I know I'd call for a boycott of Id (or Blizzard, or whoever) if they went along with this sick scheme, and I'd imagine many people would follow. The game companies know this. Therefore, I don't think this is anything to worry about; Blockbuster will scrap this idea when they realize no one is going to use it.
  • That's part of why I used them as the example; I know they would never use such a sceme.
  • You support DIVX because you think it will be cracked? I think you need to look into the medium a bit more before saying that. Most people who've looked at it agree that there is little chance that it will ever be cracked due to the strength of the crypto involved.

    Just say no to DIVX, there are no positive aspects. http://www.bandivx.com
  • Well, actually, the content of the disk is encrypted, and the key to the decryption comes over the wire from DIVX, and is itself encrypted with unique box and disk information. The disk information itself is coded "out of band" on the disk and is read in a manner different from data. I really doubt that anybody will ever come up with a simple hack that will break this. And the really involved hacks that might be able to break it are unlikely to be profitable enough for anybody to bother developing them.
  • I don't own a DIVX player. I never will own a DIVX player. Why would anyone want to crack DIVX when all it will get you is a pan-n-scan movie which doesn't have all the features of an equivalent DVD. I'd rather spend my time figuring out how to get my Sony to play a Region 2 copy of Heat.

    Also bear in mind that 128bit encryption does not necesscarily imply true 128bit encryption. Most software ( browsers included ) use key generation algorithms which allow to infer at least a few of bits automatically.
  • boycott id? people would rather sell their soul than give up their quake deathmatches
  • This scheme is a total win for most game players. Most of you (I don't rent games) play these games for many days at a stretch, or rent the same old games over and over.

    If you are going to fool yourself into thinking it's cheaper to rent (and for a lot of folks it isn't, you can buy used games cheap), you'll save money this way presumably.

    The people it won't work for are those who rent a game once, play it for a couple of days, and then return it and never rent it again. If they don't like this model, they're free to not rent the stuff from Blockbuster.

    I hate Blockbuster because their video rental model isn't a good fit for me (I'd rather pay less and keep the movie for one day), and because they tend to do stupid shit like carry "Eating Pattern" and "Gigashadow" but not "I Worship His Shadow" and "Tales from a Parallel Universe". Anime fans will tell similar stories, and Blockbuster seems completely unable to get their minds around the concept that people won't rent the last or middle part of a series without seeing the beginning or end.

    However, this rental model is not like the bad part of Divx, which is the hardware change that locks you into this model whether it works for you or not.

    This bitching wouldn't be happening if somebody hadn't put "Divx" in the original post.
  • Every time they come up with some idea like this it seems that there's a way around it. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but if all the bits you need to play a game are actually on the rental cd's, you can bet the farm that there will be a crack or whatever it takes to get to them within a few days after they start being sold. If all the bits aren't there, then I guess that blockbuster is just selling demoware, pretty lame if you ask me.
  • Pay by the hour computer gaming probably is not as bad as DIVX, but it is still pretty bad. The user is still tied to their pay-per-service scheme. I believe that DIVX is in trouble because it is a hard sell, and they need some other gimmick to keep it afloat.

    Does anyone know how this will work? Do they have a license manager that you type codes into, or does the thing need a tcp-ip connection to mamma the whole time you play? How many people will tie up their phone for that length of time? What happens to the user who starts their game, then needs to do something else, and doesn't get back to it for a couple of days? Oops! Better pay again? NO WAY! There are not that many people that are STUPID enough to buy into this to keep it afloat. Then again, they can always gouge their existing DIVX customers again, and again....


  • If I didn't have to install hundreds of megs worth of pictures and sounds and so forth and only had to power on my system in order to play the game, I would say this is an alright idea. Console games are easy to rent because they require no commitment from the user. A PC game on the otherhand requires me to put alot of resources into the game. Do you really want to get a Divx of Quake 3: Arena and only be able to play it for a trial period? And those of you who have thought it was a good idea...you can usually order a demo CD from the game manufacturer or download it just to try it out.
  • First of all, "yay, I got a link posted!".
    Ok, now. Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, it'll get cracked." But, despite the fact that LOTS of people who you'd think would be able to crack Divx absolutely loath it, but it still hasn't been cracked. Granted, it's in a proprietary system, so it wouldn't be as easy as cracking something already on the computer. I'm just thinking that maybe the IP-protecting people actually are on to something this time, at least until we have mass-produced quantum computers *drool*. Divx uses 128-bit private-key encryption, IIRC. It hasn't been cracked yet.
  • They are talking about renting PC games not just the console games that they currently rent.
  • I seriously doupt it will be a format in while the game programmers have to deal with. Most likly some type of encryption scheme. This could easily be employed after the game has been made. I really only see two problems with this
    1. If they make it secure enough so that it can't be copied easily, most likly they will have to create some sorta virtual box ontop of your operating system for running this game. This virtual box would in the same line as say a java virtual machine. In which while the program can run its virtual impossible to grab the code as its running and create a .com or .exe (for MS systems) out of the code on the fly. While this is not so much a bad idea in itself (though very complex) I would hate to play something like quakeIII on it as the system would CRAWL unless you had a 1266MHZ processor (hehe joke btw) or equivent. Because encoding something that complex on the fly would be rediculus.
    2. ok well I don't have a second point but anyhow they still would have to get the agreement of the makers of the game to convert it to such a format which might be hard to find.

    The reason I seriously doupt that the programmers themselves would be even allowed to make the game this way is because if you can make a program that runs inside the virtual machine your self, you could use that knowledge to make a program that while inside the virtual machine, makes a copy of the game.. (cause a game has to be able to access its own files without restriction doesn't it).. OHH good idea nice idea for an added cookie in the game (a copier) hehe or something
  • The reason there's no crack for Divx is because no one in the major cracking groups has a Divx player.
    For that matter, no one has a Divx player =)

    Accually no, I did see a Divx player once, I almost beat the shit outta my friend when I discovered it in her apartment, till I found out it was her roommates. (then I went to track him down.. he's been in hidding ever sense. -- this is all humor btw.. for the humorly deficent)

    Anyhow, yes they do exist. And I saw Bigfoot once too.. HEE ROTFL

  • The pc industry already has "Try Before You Buy".

    Just subscribe to a magazine such as "Maximum P.C." and you'll get more demos then you have time for.

    I would like to find an alternative to blockbuster but can't. The nearest Hollywood video is an extra 20 minutes drive, and the local mom+pop shops have horrible selections (unless you are shopping for porn).

    I really dislike the company. My main gripes are the high late fees (3.50 to rent but 3.00 per day late fee? 3.50 should get you another 5 "nights"), and the long waits for service (avg. 8 minutes).

    Unfortunately, where I live there is simply no alternative.....

  • Sounds like "banner ads in games" to me... No thanks!
    On the other hand: You kill few people in you favourite shoot-them-up and get a popup "now, wouldn't you like to try a real gun, just $24.95 at..." - that's nice.
  • I worked at Blockbuster over the summer a couple of years ago, and I remember that video game theft was a MAJOR problem. Because games have gotten so expensive, teenagers (typically) would often either steal the games off the shelves or rent them and never return them.

    I also remember spending hours calling customers (most of them honest but forgetful) whose movies or video games were overdue.

    I think the rental market (including movie rental) would save a lot of money and trouble if they embraced a medium that simply deactivated itself -- making theft, returns, rewinding, reshelving, etc. a thing of the past.
  • The reason there's no crack for Divx is because no one in the major cracking groups has a Divx player. For that matter, no one has a Divx player =)

    As to the topic at hand, this is a good idea far ahead of it's time. People have been buying 8 dollar gaming mags because of the demo CD's for years now- paying $6 for a real game is actually not that bad. However, if everything is on the CD, it WILL get cracked. (Not that this will be bad for Blockbuster- they'll still make money on the initial rental. Hell, if this goes through, I'll get a membership there instead of the local video store :P)

  • Nope (Score:1)

    by #._*_.# ( 33895 )
    Sorry, but this isn't going to work.

    For one, if it runs on a pc, someone can crack it.
    This crack can float through the net.
    Yea, yea noone has craked Divx you say. Who wants to crack divx? And beyond that divx is a black box with a lock on it. Divx's crack would probably require a soldering iron to install.
    Different beasts.

    What blockbuster should do is sell demo cds like the game rags. $5 for the first three levels. No 7hour downloads on my crappy connection. I can try before I buy. I can play as long as I like.

    Of course blockbuster is salivating over those $3 additional time blocks. This is an industry who makes a great deal of revenue on those late fees. They work under the idea "the longer you get to enjoy our content, the more you pay"

    Never mind the mentioned tech support issues. What do you do when Joe T Rube can't get the CD to work in the 5-1/4" disk drive on his XT?

    I doubt it'll make it out of the test markets.
  • This is not true -- most likely, the key is *not* kept on the disc, but at the company. If they are doing it right, when the box calls up the company to charge your credit card, the company sends back a message with the key to unlock the disk, encrypted so only that single player can get at the key (most likely using some form of Public key cryptography). The Blockbuster scheme will most likely be similar.

    The point is, with the Blockbuster stuff, you have the encryption software running on *your* machine, so with the right tools you can intercept the unlocking key after it has been received from the server and decrypted by the program. With complete control of your system, all copy protection schemes must eventually fail, since the program has to decrypt the thing eventually.

    Since DiVX is proprietary hardware, it is much harder to intercept the decryption information.

    The problem
  • This is not nearly as bad as Divx for several reasons:

    1) It doesn't require any additional hardware.

    2) There is no comparable market for computer game
    rentals.

    3) You can still by the game.

    If a game manufacturer released a game that could only be used in this format that would be tragic. However, this seems to me like a way to try before you buy. I'm not aware of another way other than borrowing a friend's copy of a game to do that. Also, isn't this like shareware with a 3-day time limit.

    I just don't see this as being nearly as evil as DIVX.
  • I mean, if there's a decent demo out, ppl will use that.

    However the advantage of this scheme might be to let people try stuff and see how well it works with their hardware...

    It's not as if they are gonna be making _all_ games that way. However, give it a couple of years.. ;)

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