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Games Entertainment

Warcraft 3 Announced 128

Posted by justin++ from the lions-and-tigers-and-orcs-oh-my dept.
Anonymous something something writes "Warcraft 3 has been announced. Check blizzard's site. No plans on doing a linux port but I'm sure we'll get it to work under wine. " Looks like quite a departure from WC 1&2 - "Role Playing Strategy". 6 races, too. Could the release of C&C: Tiberian Sun hurt sales when the game finally is released?
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Warcraft 3 Announced

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  • Remember how long Starcraft was delayed? Remember how Bizzard said it would be a simultaneous release for both Mac and PC? Remember how it then took more than a year?

    Hope you still want the Linux version when it comes out in 2006.
  • Blizzard never seems to budge on the issue of any of their games in Linux. Plus their ports to MacOS take ages. Maybe a boycott on their products will at least help them see that there is actually a market out there for non-Windows games...
  • Maybe they hack around with Linux at home, and even know some Linux programming. Some of them may contribute to Linux gaming projects. But they've had no reason to learn how to port large Windows games to Linux. They're too busy writing them for Windows.
  • Well, from the screenshots, I cannot see any problems why there won't be any Linux port.

    I cannot confirm it, but from rumors I hear (and I cannot tell from who) it WILL be ported to Linux.

  • I'm not sure I like this 'departure' thing; I lay awake nights for three years, fearing that C&C2 would be something different. Fortunately, Tiberian Sun is all I could hope for.
    Different doesn't always mean better.
  • Don't decide if it's good or bad until it comes out. The volume of people I've seen proclaiming that it will be the worst/best game ever made is astounding.

    I was a big fan of Warcraft 1 and 2, but that doesn't mean Warcraft 3 will be great, or even good.
  • It is so unfair that Blizzard makes killer games and have yet to share these games to the linux crowd. Yes WINE should get this to work, but WINE is also buggy and cannot figure out how-to configure the thing (the truth hurts). I am running an all linux box and do not have window system files and cannot figure out what do.

  • The Real Question (Score:3)

    by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Sunday September 05, 1999 @05:13AM (#1702087) Homepage
    When will Loki do the port?

    Man, from the day that Loki started announcing their ports, I've been saying that what we really really need is the next Warcraft game to run native under Linux.

    To be honest, the games Loki ports haven't been blockbusters. They've been good games and I'm sure that Loki made a pretty penny off them, but no real killers -- Quake 3 will blow them all out of the water. Warcraft, however, might put them on the map with a real winner that would attract a serious amount of attention.

    ----

  • I don't see how C&C2 would hurt WC3 sales since it is out now while WC3 won't be released until late-2000. Everyone who wants C&C2 will have it by then and need something new to play.


  • CNet Gamecenter also has a godd story on it, with some gameplay screenshots...

    http://www.gamecenter.com/Resources/Strategy/War craft3/?st.gc.fd.gcd

    Looks pretty good...seems all the RTS games have opted for the 3D look since Myth came out. (Dark Reign 2, Force Commander, WarcraftIII, Homeworld, more that I know I'm forgetting.)

    However, I hope for Blizzard's sake that Games Workshop never goes out of business. They wouldn't be able to make any 'new' games.
    ;->

    Seriously, though, as most of the GW-licensed games have been mediocre at best, I am kinda glad that Blizzard has been shamelessly ripping them off all these years. I find it hard to believe that there hasn't been a lawsuit or 8 though.


  • Hmm... From reading the webpage, it seems they adapted the "Lord of the Clans" Story to this one. Looks like they made it a little more interesting too. (Everyone break out the Starcraft CD to view the preview!) I enjoyed the little cartoon... The game looks good, but i'm gettting tired of all the Quake clones and [w|st]arcraft clones out today.
    FREECELL FOREVER!
  • Guess I won't be buying it then. Sorry Blizzard...
  • What's wrong with Everquest? I play it and have tons of fun doing it. Isn't that what a game is for. If there is a niche why not fill it.
  • Warcraft III is slated for release late 2000. How would a game out now affect the sales of a game that far off? And knowing Blizzard, it will really be out mid 2001.

    And on the whole Linux port thing... The game is so far off that in that time Linux will either make a bigger splash warranting almost all software to exist for Linux, or Linux will be a flop on consumer machines, and the Linux port won't exist.

    Only time will tell on everything with this game. And who knows, it looks good, so that means it could be scrapped like Warcraft Adventures was. (Personally, the market needs more adventure games, and any decent one would have sold well, but I guess Blizzard had different ideas)

    -----
  • By looking at the screenshots, This looks like a good game for a VR Helmet. Play commander, get in there with the men/orcs and slug it out.

    If this going to be a strategy game, Being able to do recon work is essential.

    I like the the idea of dwarvish rifleman, but I'm not sure I'd trust those maniacs with too much firepower:

    "We've got bazoozas!"
  • Don't worry, somebody came around and did that already. :) Just hope they also bumbed down all the "C&C sucks!" flames.
  • Did you look closely at that page? Man, there's some html-wizardry I've never seen before.
    If that page is any indication of the attention to detail we'll see in the game, I'll be really impressed.
  • Well... Just wanted to point out that you CAN'T count on things coming out. I for one was looking forward for WarCraft Adventure (or what they called it). And it was on their website for several months. And then it died.

    Of course at the time they where breaking their one 'just around one release a year' thing so unless they are going to do that again it seems likely this will indeed come out (and counting the fact that fans have screeming for a WCIII it's even more likely).

    But just wanted to point it out anyway =)
  • They keep saying it was their fastest Mac port and the teams where working closely together.

    Then the Wintel version came out and Blizzard said: "Well... it'll be out one of these months"

    IT TOOK A YEAR!!!!

    6 months (or something like that) before the game came out I played a v 0.96 beta that worked prefectly (well I don't see much diffrence from the version I now own).

    I wish they would stop making good games so I could just ignore those bozos at Blizzard. 'course they really piss me off.

    Damn, the world is so unfair.
  • ..there are those of us who still prefer action games that aren't clones. Grand Theft Auto, for example. Originality's out there; it just isn't hanging around for you to stumble over it.
    And both MK and SF2 are outdated; real fighting game fans are busy playing King of Fighers. ;P
  • Since when did GW get the right to every fantacy universe out there.

    The Human/Orc thing is is almost EVERY fantacy world out there (since the Orc's usually is the evil version of humans created by god's opposite - or some version of that).

    TSR have it in several of their worlds. And many other fantacy worlds have it too... What exactly are they stealing specifically from GW?
  • Is it just me, or does this game look a lot like the next-in-line C&C game? I haven't seen any information on Renegade from Westwood, but there was an extensive preview in the October 1999 edition of PC Gamer that I received yesterday. Any thoughts on this?
  • Just repeating what he said, just making sure people know.

    Also, I agree that Blizzard should do the port themselves. They, at least with StarCraft, have shown they need tons of patches to make there games "right". I doubt Loki want's to update patches for there games for years.

    Realisticly, Loki is going to need to do this for online games in the future. That is going to be one of the reasons that they are worth something. I imagine Blizzard (or company X) could make the game, then Loki could maintain it. That would be worth it.

    With all of these patches Blizzard itself has released, they need to . . . was that sarcasm? Just thought of that.
  • I agree wholeheartedly. It's more like C&C 1.5 - pretty disappointing stuff.

    Starcraft is one of the few games that has had staying power around on the old hard drive. Blizzard is perhaps the only gaming company that I'd buy something from on their rep alone.
  • As the file name sayes it's dither.

    All it is, is half black, half transparant pixels. And volá. You have a simi-transparant image that dones the background down. It's all an optical illusion of course.
  • But I can see many sleepless nights ahead, looks like school is going to suffer yet again... *g*
  • It's important not to confuse DirectX with Direct3D.

    DirectX is a large set of API subsets, including DirectSound, DirectDraw, DirectInput, etc. There's already strong support for a lot of these API's in Wine, and there has been for some time. Starcraft, for instance, uses DirectDraw and DirectSound, both of which are emulated in Wine well enough to run it.

    Direct3D is the 3D-specific subset of DirectX, and is almost completely unsupported in Wine at this time, although as you mention, there's a Direct3D->Mesa mapping effort underway.

    So, lots of DirectX stuff works fine under Wine; Direct3D stuff doesn't really yet.

    Check http://www.linuxgames.com/wine/ [linuxgames.com] for more poop on Wine gaming success stories.
    --

  • Bungie does make decent games usually....but Blizzard generally has the best, and are the most original. See - Diablo, Warcraft I&II and Starcraft.

  • Anyone have an email address to send requests for the port?

  • The most original?
    Warcraft 2?
    StarCraft?
    If you have ever played myth, or myth 2, it is a completely game play type.
    Oni is not first person. It is wonderful. i have played it in person. The AI and Physics are so complete, the Programmers see the characters react in ways they never anticipated.
  • feedback@blizzard.com
    That's basically their all purpose email box.
  • Sorry but I just got a return on my own email that that address is bad :(
  • Direct3D is the 3D-specific subset of DirectX, and is almost completely unsupported in Wine at this time, although as you mention, there's a Direct3D->Mesa mapping effort underway.

    You are right (but I knew this already :)
    My statement was not based on running Wine but on having a look at this link:

    http://www.winehq.com/source/graphics/d3ddevices.c [winehq.com]

    Particular this part:

    1. /* Direct3D Device
    2. (c) 1998 Lionel ULMER
    3. This files contains all the D3D devices that Wine supports. For the moment
    4. only the 'OpenGL' target is supported. */
    5. #include
    6. #include "config.h"
    7. #include "windef.h"
    8. #include "winerror.h"
    9. #include "wine/obj_base.h"
    10. #include "heap.h"
    11. #include "ddraw.h"
    12. #include "d3d.h"
    13. #include "debugtools.h"
    14. #include "d3d_private.h"
    15. DEFAULT_DEBUG_CHANNEL(ddraw)
    16. /* Define this variable if you have an unpatched Mesa 3.0 (patches are available
    17. on Mesa's home page) or version 3.1b.
    18. Version 3.1b2 should correct this bug */
    19. #undef HAVE_BUGGY_MESAGL
    20. #ifdef HAVE_MESAGL 1

    My reason to find out what the Wine folks are doing is this one:

    There is a new 3d API on the block, QDraw [calcaphon.com], that will be the foundation for a new 3d Web format (GEL). This API is crossplatform (NT and UNIX, I was able to run it under FreeBSD) and uses different backends, presently OpenGL and ASCII aalib (yes :-)

    Now comes the funny bit. QDraw is from the original Direct3d guys - and while being much more cleaner (a nice C++ API, as far as I can see from the example sources) it is closer to Direct3d than OpenGL. So it might be easier to realize a Direct3d -> QDraw mapping, than the one to Mesa.

  • > However cool Loki may be I don't want them to get a monopoly on Linux games.

    Probably not much danger. If they are showing profits, others will be attracted to the niche.

    I'm sure there's some advantage to being recognized as "First of Breed", but I think the long-term benefits will go to the companies with the titles, not the companies with the mileage.

  • Blizzard may have ripped-off Games Workshop in the past, but let's not pretend for a minute that GW come up with all their own ideas. They've been ripping-off Tolkien and various medieval folk stories since they began.
  • okay. You moderators SUCK! I was looking for a comment like this, and you gave it an OFFTOPIC? damn, people, get a grip... it was even mentioned in the topic....
  • Blizzard's games just take a long time, period. Since their games take a long time to make, their ports take a long time to make. Whether this is because of high Quality Assurance, low programmer productivity, or both is anybody's guess.
  • Considering the level of development that WC3 is at and the level that Renegade is at I would say that you really couldn't say that they look alot like one or the other at this point and it is unfair to say that renegade looks like WC3 when blizzard never said when they started work on WC3 and the same can be said for westwood concerning renegade because they never stated when exactly they started work on renegade
  • Actually you overlooked the game that has yet to
    be surpassed in real-time-strategy. Total
    Annihilation has a far better interface and
    strategy possibilities than starcraft, let alone
    warcraft 1/2. Tiberian Sun is little better than
    Red Alert, which was a good game for its time.
    TS does nothing to advance the art, not even as
    far as starcraft possibly.
  • to threaten Warcraft III. TS isn't even as good
    as Total Annihilation, which is alomst 3 years
    old now ($9.99 at stores now!) and still very
    popular. Starcraft may even be better than TS.
    TS is little better than Red Alert, which was a
    good game for it's time...

    TA is the greatest at multiplayer, bar none.
  • I've never seen a decent game [...] Bungie. [...] I've never heard of Halo, but Oni looks like another boring first person shooter with the tedium of Mortal Combat thrown in to make you fall asleep faster.

    First, Oni is third-person.

    Second, Halo (also third person) looks very cool. Grab this movie [bungie.org] (bigger version here [gamestats.com]) and tell me that your jaw doesn't drop.

    Third, WC3 owes pretty much everything to Bungie's Myth. You know, that game that was released several years ago that featured full 3D terrain, a total lack of resource management and unit building, etc. Now let's look at the features of WC3 gameplay...hmmmm...

  • First of all, The idea of developing a Starcraft II is pointless (at this time). Blizzard does everything in moderation, which is good. You have Warcraft II then the Dark Portal Expansion for it and Blizzard gives you time to soak it in before trying something new. Hence Diablo comes into the picture along with the Hellfire Expansion. Blizzard then brings you Starcraft and the Broodwar Expansion. Going directly into another sequel for a game after it's release won't give the programmers enough time to think things over for how to make a game better. Look at Diablo II, it's a damn improvement over Diablo I. That's because Blizzard had a timespan for getting ideas from both their own staff and hardcore fans.

    Now the idea of an RPG/Strategy is a very well thought of idea. I am a Warcraft/Warcraft II/Starcraft player, so don't tell me I dont know what I'm talking about. First off, you know that in Starcraft, the number of kills was shown on each unit. When I first played Starcraft, I thought the number of kills were like experience points and that unit would get stronger. Apparently I was wrong and was disappointed. I was hoping Blizzard would incorporate it since it kept "levels" in Warcraft II. Now that experience is kept in Warcraft III, that means your units do get stronger over time (I hope, that's what the preview implied to me). Now the idea of roaming around, interacting with people, recruiting characters is also an excellent idea. It shows that not only do the gamers have to build a force and develop their base, it also means that they have to do some scouting so they can get more characters to join their army.

    It's amazing really. It almost eliminates the bastard players that do not move and put Towers/Photon Cannons everywhere around your base. It also nearly eliminates rushers since there will be NPCs/creatures that MAY attack you while exploring. This will give other players some time just in case someone is a rusher.

    Warcraft III will keep the strategy/tactician element, but I believe the incorporation of recruiting characters, NPCs, hostile animals, gaining experience, exploration, and unit efficiency will make it a good game.

    For those of you that are bitching Warcraft III will be a failure, you are simply wrong. What game has Blizzard made that the majority of gamers did NOT like? None. Blizzard makes good games period. They know what they are doing because obviously they have the talent. Apparently they are doing something right when the majority of dominating gaming magazines are giving games Blizzard makes an "A" equivalent rating.

    There will always be someone who will play it. It will be a big change from us Starcraft/Warcraft II players, but it will be for the better. Everyone will be "beginners" to this game because of the different gameplay. When Starcraft came along, I easily adapted to it and knew what I was doing because of style Blizzard makes their RTS games. No one will really have the huge advantage over another. Also, the previews leading to it's release will tide some haters over to the lovers side of Warcraft III.

    In any case, when Warcraft III comes along, I'll be waiting in line to buy it, play it, and love it. I'm sure a lot of people can say the same.
  • Sierra's Orcs Revenge of the Ancient [sierrastudios.com] has a similar theme - training small groups of fighters to use against your opponents.
  • The human/orc thing exists in tons of fantasy works and games sure.

    What Blizzard have ripped is the look and feel of the GW / Warhammer orcs (and elves and dwarves and humans and goblins and and and)

    When was WCI released? 1993? Look at some GW sourcebooks from around the same time. Throw in the ships from WCII, which look very similar to the GW game Man-O-War (hmm...Orcs and Humans in fantasy sea-battles...) and WC looks more and more like a GW rip-off.

    Not that I mind. Blizzard has made some very good games, and most of the GW licenses haven't lived up to their potential. Just calling a spade a spade.

    Now, don't get me started on the whole Starcraft vs. a Imperium / Eldar / Tyranid three-way dance.

  • Ever play Herzog Zwei for the Sega? I'm not sure if that came out before Dune2 or not, but it was a hell of a game.. something that definately could deserve a remake..

    D

    ________________________________________________ _____________
  • I agree with you completely.. Although I love Starcraft, battle.net has been a real thorn in the foot of blizzard games...
    One alternative you may want to try is FSGS(Free Standard Game Server)... www.fsgs.com ..same bnet interface, skipping bnet itself..there are both Linux and Win servers available to host your own games, and you can network with other FSGS servers as well(ala battle.net) so there are usually plenty of games available to jump into...plus it makes it soo much easier to actually get into the server with a few friends and get a game going.

    D

    ________________________________________________ _____________
  • a game that was ahead of its time. most certainly.

    I remember playing it ... oh ... all of ... 9 years ago ...

    then again, I'm still waiting for someone to make a remake of Nuclear War
  • Yes, lets look at WC3's features and see how they're exactly like myth.. 3d terrain. Yep, both apparently have it, but then so do warzone2100, TA, enemy nations.. the list goes on.. and they arent at all like myth.

    Unit building. Myth doest have it, WC3 has some form of unit-addition. It said you could recruit new units and have structures in the CNET review

    Resource management. Myth doesnt have it, WC3 does. Again, the CNET review said rather specifically that there would be some form of resouce management in the game. Given that you're recruiting people i'd imagine it'd at least have money of some type.

    Environment. Myth you had an army, the badguys had an army, you kill each other. WC3 apparently will have you, the badguys, and townsful of innocent bystanders

    Yup, exactly the same in every way, obviously blizzard must have stolen the whole game. We've had so many 3d shooter clones and lookalike 'rpg' console games i guess people now assume games are alike at a glance.


    Dreamweaver
  • The title says it all. Anybody who relies on 'i have a big army so i'll overwhelm you now' is an idiot (well, in most games anyway.. i've a played a few where you really had no other choice). Though i can see why someone might have trouble if they cant even win consistently at Dune2.. took me about 2 hours to figure out how to win every time in that game
    Dreamweaver
  • Maybe warcraft3 isnt the sweeping new idea blizzard says it is, maybe it's borrowed from pre-existing games.. but so what? Very few games come out that dont borrow from others for alot of elements and i cant think of Any that said "Just another game in the X genre". EVERY game is a dynamic new departure from the genre that will change the world of gaming forever. Once in a while it's true, but every marketing department on earth says the same things. Dont pick on them for it.
    Personally, i dont like 3d games. The media has a great deal of potential, i like rendered artwork and do a bit of it myself.. but i dont like polygonal games. I had fun with tomb raider for about 10 minutes, i liked TA for a couple of hours, i stuck with zelda64 just 'cause i love zelda games.. but i dont think Every game needs it. However, i dont think 3d is evil. Blizzard Just announced this game. You cant go off pre-prototype screenshots. Look at some of the pre-proto shots of Starcraft, it looked Really crappy, worse graphics and interface than warcraft 2. But now we have a beautiful game with a streamlined interface. Blizzard's good at what they do and i have no doubt they'll pull it off again.
    Even if the worst happens and WC3 sucks, or even just isnt a great game.. well.. oh well. I'll still have fun with starcraft, i'm looking forward to WC2 platinum, and i've already got money stashed away so i can get Diablo2 the day it comes out. Blizzard makes good games, and even if they manage to pull a lemon out of the hat this time, they're not going to die from it. They'll learn from their mistakes like they always do and either dump the RPS thing or fix it up.

    As for all of this Warcraft is a Dune2 clone and RTS's are all the same stuff.. i have to disagree. Dune2 was pretty good, but it wasnt That good and i can only think of about 4 different fantasy based RTS's. I'd like to see a new one.. SF is getting a bit overdone, though when you consider only 1 in 10 of the new SF RTS's are even worth playing there's alot still out there. Getting a bit of environment interaction seems only logical.. I mean, in all RTS's your out there waging war.. usually in a populated world. Where are the bystanders? The independent militias? The whole RPS thing is just a way to draw attention to (what i hope anyway) is just a step-up the RTS ladder in a genre saturated with "Groundbreaking New Game"s.
    Dreamweaver
  • This is scheduled for release "by the end of 2000". C&C: Tiberian Sun is out now. While you will probably still be able to find copies of TS on the shelves a year from now, it is NOT going to be competition for WC3 that far down the line. Games just don't work that way. The vast majority of sales come in the first couple of months, with a spike at the following christmas if you're lucky (and if it wasn't released at christmas in the first place). Two similar games released within a couple of months of each other can definitely affect each others' sales. Two similar games released more than a year apart won't.



  • *does a little dance*
  • Judging from how long it takes Blizzard to finishing their (quality, admittedly) releases, this should come out just about the time I'm a grandpa. (And I'm only 21 now.) Blizzard news releases are about the useless things on the planet .. you know it's coming, but don't start counting the days.

    G
  • First of all, Tiberian Sun is out now, while Warcraft 3 "is expected to release by the end of 2000". That's a whole year (plus possible delays). If consider the (way too short, IMHO) lifespan of games, most people propably won't even remember C&C2 a year from know.

    Second, the game seems to be very different from C&C2. Tiberian Sun brings nothing new to the genre, while WC3 looks (allmost) revolutionary. It's offcourse impossible to tell from a press release and screenshot, if Warcraft 3 will be any better than lets say Battlezone (2), but it sure seems better than C&C2. This is kinda like asking if Midtown Madness will hurt the sales of Q3A.

  • No offense, But blizzard and WestWood are really out of it. Want to see a real game, that makes q3test look like doom?

    Q3test already looks like Doom. Same incredibly boring tedious gameplay, just with updated graphics.

    Both Blizzard and Westwood make fun games. I've never seen a decent game from id or Bungie. Doom was amusing for about 5 minutes, then got real boring real fast. Same for Quake and its sequels. I've never heard of Halo, but Oni looks like another boring first person shooter with the tedium of Mortal Combat thrown in to make you fall asleep faster. Let me know when either company comes up with a game half as good as the original C&C (which would be about 10 times better than anything they've come up with so far)...

    --

  • With StarCraft, I realized that Blizzard has their own concept of time. I was one of the ones who was actively waiting for the game in '96 when Blizzard first said they'd release it. Sure glad they waited though...

  • Why would you beleive linux people ONLY want free software? Especialy in the games area?
    Loki has been INCREDIBLY successfull at selling games, i may be wrong, but i beleive loki has made a decent showing of money for the few ports they have done. Linux people have shown they are willing to buy games as much as the next person. For the most part people only refuse to use commercial stuff, if there is free stuff of similar, or even slightly lesser quality.

    Erik

  • WOT (Score:1)

    by justbob ( 83184 )
    need I say more? This already has millions of followers from the series Wheel of time by Robert Jordan. this promises to be an incredible game story wise game wise and multiplayer wise. Tib sun i feel lacks in gameplay where it has a good story with incredible cutscence, play it now just to see the story its multi doesn't even interest me. starcraft had an good story line awesome gameplay and great cutscenes. q3test has good gplay but gets repititius. and those whom mock doom, well IMO doom is a better game than q3test.

  • Blizz has released multi-platform games before. However cool Loki may be I don't want them to get a monopoly on Linux games.

    I fully trust that blizz eithor has or can get the capacity to port War III or any other game to Linux or any other platform. It's just a question of convincing them it's worth doing.

  • WOT (Score:1)

    by justbob ( 83184 )
    and i forgot to mention the amazing amount of time the staff developing the wheel of time go to tell us and sometimes show us generaly what they are working on and whats happening with the game in general. go see it http://wheeloftime.com
    and some companies i shall not mention its name *cough* blizzard *ahem* would make good use by following this way of reaching out to those interested in it.
  • if the AI doesn't know where stuff is on a level it runs around like a headless chicken.......


    wow that sort of summons up my experiance with tib sun. never played c&c1 so i can't compare. well if it did develop better gameplay i'm glad i never did play C&C1. i find tib sun moves way to slow where your units barly understand what you try to tell them. sorry but giev me starcraft anyday. C7C does have a good story tho.
  • Because drawing each 2x2 pattern would be very slow. This is why most 'sidebar' background images aren't 1 or 2 pixels high but are more like 15-20 pixels high.
  • Civilization CTP 1.1 is barely playable on Celeron 300 with 64 MB. The game slows to a crawl in late levels and there are significant bugs: some paratrooper manipulations can crash the game hard, and preferences are not save across sessions. Add to that the 350MB install and you have yourself a good game with severe annoyances. Before you flame me for wanting good performance out of this sub optimal gaming platform, consider that CTP is a 2D game with very little movement.
    I suspect that Blizzard could do a better port than Loki. For one thing they already do good Windows and Mac versions of their games so their code base is probably reasonably portable. Starting a port early in the development process is also a plus since it makes for better design decisions.
    I'm willing to give Loki the benefit of the doubt. CTP was their first foray into porting. They were on a tight schedule and have limited resources. The developers are accessible and responsive and they even have a Bugzilla [lokigames.com] page. I just hope their new releases are more professional and that they continue to fix the annoying bugs in their already released games.
    --
  • Where are the bystandards, nuthin. Where are the *troops*? Biggest force I've ever seen anyone attack with in a typical RTS game is about a hundred troops at a time. That ain't a war, that's a skirmish. Something like Shogun looks more my style. The one word I have to describe the look of that game is "vast"
  • I don't know about many of the people here, but I for one waited days for that "The World will Change" thing to change on 9-5-99. I guess I can be called as one of the devoted memers of the clan of Blizzard... :)

    That said, I am completely looking forward to Warcraft 3. And no, I don't think this game is going to be in direct competition with the regular RTSs out there since they seemed to be focused in callined it "Role Playing Strategy" and gave pitifully little information about it. But the release date is still over a year way and I can see Blizzard announcing this in order to hype this thing up crazy the next year+.

    Remember Starcraft. That game was massively hyped and delayed. In the end, it was an amazing product. But nonetheless, some people felt cheated and although it was a great game, like all games, it didn't live up to the hype it generated.

    My advice: Blizzard's pulled this one before. They'll come up with a super duper game that I'm going to drool and spend many sleepless nights over. But it'll never live up to the hype it's gonna create so just sit back and forget about it for a year until it eventually ships on that fateful early 2001 (Ha! I doubt they'll release in 2000, but we'll see).

    And the port to linux would make me such a happy person. Please let it be true. Please!
  • Warcraft 2 cost me an entire semester when it came out. I'm never going to finish school.
  • For example on dune2 I kept getting my butt kicked by rocket turrets until I examined the range of my missle tanks and relized if I took just one tank out of the range of the turret then I could capture the base. Details like this are not in dune2000 and warcraft.

    You are so smoking crack, dude. Firstly, all the Blizzard RTSes have things EXACTLY LIKE THIS. In WCII, catapults/ballistae fire one square farther than cannon towers, in Starcraft Reavers fire one square farther than bunkers/photon cannons, etc.

    Second, um, I played Dune II Back In The Day myself, and I don't see what you're going on about. The game had no balance whatsoever, the AI was...how can I describe it? It was obviously a collection of very simple scripts, basically it sent out a preset group of units to your home base at x minute intervals. It didn't even pretend to react to the environment. IIRC some guy from Westwood actually said as much once in an interview.

    Anyway, Dune II had no multiplayer mode...that's just retarded. RTSes only work multiplayer. Really. If I was even ruder than I am, I'd probably say that the reason you don't like modern RTSes is that you're too dim/lazy to actually figure out the strategy. Especially Starcraft...

    All you do is make a huge legion of men that are bigger then the enemies and take over. Duh. Thats too easy and thoughtless! Even a 7 year old can figure that out. IT seems todays games judge players by how fast they hit buttons on controllers like Mortal Combat and street fighter2 or how quick you can build tanks like Command and conquer.
    how could you possibly say that Starcraft solely consisted of amassing a larger army than your opponent, then throwing it at him? Have you ever played Starcraft multiplayer? At all? I suggest you go to your favourite search engine and search for "zileas" (minus quotes, natch). I'm pretty sure he's got a strategy page up, he is unbelievably dangerous with small groups of units.

    ...not to say that there's not problems with modern RTSes, of course. I really don't like the trend of making true 3-d RTSes, IMO strategy games work best 2-d...of course, that just might be my old video card talking, so don't mind me =)
    --
    "HORSE."

  • TA is cool, But it's really hard to find players, sure you can go trough kail but...
  • Wow, I really wanted to hear an honest review of CTP, instead of all the [lINuX i5 s0 g0OD] style reviews.

    Now I know that if I buy CTP, (which I have't yet seen in any shops in the UK, anyone?) I will have to wait until they sell it at a cheaper price.

    Thanks.
  • No. There won't be a Linux port, no matter what your "rumors" say. Blizzard is a small company and does not have the manpower or desire to port their games to other OSes. Macs are lucky to get it as it is; Linux? No way.
  • As much as I absolutely _love_ everything that Blizzard has put out, and I'm totally looking forward to this game, there has been only one RTS game that has stood the test of time with me: Age of Empires. And there is no game I'm looking more forward to than AOE 2.

    Yes, yes...I realize that my purchase of that game ends up with me putting more money into the Evil Empire's coffers, but I can't help myself! The detail, the units, the buildings...I'm drawn to it like a moth to flame!
  • What's wrong with everquest, eh? The short answer is, I think its lame.
    The longer answer is... Well, lets see. Graphics: I am somewhat unimpressed. Its Doom with high-res textures, herky-jerky animations, and no real level design. After playing Half Life, I can't stomach a FPS design without a similar attention to detail in graphics and level design. Gameplay: My roommate consistently parties, follows someone to a monster spawn point, hits his auto-attack button, and LEAVES to make dinner or watch TV. He comes back and he's gotten a level. That is the single stupidest gameplay I have ever heard of. Its like playing Mario Brothers and winning cause you think about it a lot. Combat is BORING. I remember the scene in Half Life when I first fought the soldiers; I was screaming, everyone was clustered around behind me, when I survived and managed to fight my way out, we were all sweating and out of breath. THATS what combat should be. Economy: Stupid. I remember at 15 thinking, "Wow, where do all these gold pieces come from?" and having that gamers cognitive dissonance that somehow, the AD&D writers were somewhat daft. Bugs: Its no UO but... for instance, my roommate played for MONTHS before his rogue could do things like make poison. Maybe I should file that under "incomplete" and not "buggy". Just-Plain-Stupid: My roommate (again) played his rogue faithfully so one day he could make poison. When it was made available, it turned out that you had to be a fscking POTTER and go through 20 steps to make frigging jars for poison. THATS JUST DUMB. Imagine the worlds most dangerous rogue sitting hunched over a potters wheel. Thats illogical and inconsistent. "I am the most feared assassin in all of Norrath. Can I interest you in a nice vase, or an ashtray? I am just learning." C'mon, think it through a little. Experience System: More convoluted that /. moderation. Also, dumb. You can't run with high level people? My roommate (are you tired of hearing about him yet) went to NY w/ his GF and the rest of my friends who play spent the weekend sequestered in their rooms playing. When he got back, they had levelled too much and he couldn't play with them and he still can't. If I can't play a game with my mates there is no fscking point (see remarks about StarCraft). I understand the rationale but the devil's in the details. Also, the entire friggin game is the most mundane "push the button get the food pellet" reward system. Thats the most annoying thing. Its just fight - xp - fight - xp - level - repeat. I have yet to see anyone bothered by faction standing, or any politics, or any interpersonal relationship or conflict. There is no discovery, its all available from a hint book. There is no story, you merely fight (adjective) snakes for a few days then (adjective) caimans then (adjective) skeletons or whatever. Anyone remember the old BBD door-game Mouser? Same thing, just better graphics.
  • I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that BattleNet does not host the games. BattleNet simply provides a media by which to set up games which are then run over TCP/IP sockets between the computers in the game. That's why you can loose your connection to battlenet and continue playing the game. This used to happen to me when I played really long games last spring. You should upgrade your internet connection.
  • Loki did what they could with CiVCTP, but they started out with what Activision provided.

    It's slow on Windows also.

    Loki doesn't get to redesign the games. CivCTP has some fundamental UI problems. The graphics get redrawn much more often than they need to be.

    But that's not Loki's fault. Loki did a good job on the port, but they started with a suboptimal design that they couldn't change.

  • Re:WOT (Score:1)

    by palp ( 90815 )
    Wheel Of Time looks to be a great game, and even if it isn't, I'll play it just because it's Wheel Of Time =). But what I don't get is comparing WOT, or Quake III, with WarIII.. It's a totally different genre. I wouldn't say Starcraft is better than Quake2, or vice versa. It's apples and oranges.

  • No, no, no. You don't understand. Blizzard has never released a game that didn't truely kick ass. Diablo came close to only "Realy being cool", but that is excusable because Blizzard North had just joined up at that time.

    War III will rule specifically because it's from Blizzard, and Blizzard won't release a game unless it kicks ass. They had one game that was going to suck, so they ditched it. We can expect them to act similarly in the future.

  • If Blizzard wanted to make a First Person Shooter, they would. Blizzard instead wants to make a Kick Ass Game, and that's what they're gonna do.

  • I really do hope they start making linux games, that's one of the main reasons my friends hold out on linux. I personally am not a big gamer(however i'm rather addicted to "starcraft", and the game "spectre challenger" for the mac) but i'm able to get by with out them. Having quake 3 and the newest warcraft will definatly put us somewhere on the gamers' map.
    char *stupidsig = "this is my dumb sig";
  • but I'm sure we'll get it to work under wine

    I was surprised to learn yesterday that the Wine folks are actually tackling DirectX emulation by rendering it with Mesa.

    Of course, now that we have several accelerated cards working with Mesa (Glide, G200/G400, RIVA) I would love to know how fast the emulation might turn out on older (but still good) game titles.

    The requirement for e.g. Jedi Knight was a P5-90, so it might run acceptable under Wine emulation.

    My question:

    Has anyone tried out older DirectX stuff under Wine and accelerated Mesa and can post something about the performance here?

    Where can I read about performance and successful emulation examples? The apps service on the Wine HQ site did not work last time I checked.

  • If we all get together and post to the suggestion forums on Battle.net [battle.net] then mabie we can get Blizz to do the port themselves.

    Not to insult Loki or anything, but could a Loki port realy be up to the standard of quality that is a Blizzard Game?

  • oops, sorry about that, i thought it said warcraft 3 was coming to linux... sometimes my fingers get away from me
    char *stupidsig = "this is my dumb sig";

  • One thing you can do is make it crystal clear to Blizzard that your running a Linux-only box and want a Linux port.

    Try the Suggestion forums on Battle.net [battle.net] to begin with. If we don't let them know there's a market, they won't have any reason to do the port.

  • I did enjoy starcraft because unlike tiberian sun it was atleast a bit different.

    Starcraft is really Warcraft3: Lost in Space. The only thing that got was changed in Starcraft was unit differentiation. Similar graphics, same annoying low resolution, same BS about having to research everything all over again for each frikken level, if the AI doesn't know where stuff is on a level it runs around like a headless chicken.......
  • I disagree. Loki would probably do a much better job with a port, for obvious reasons. They specialize in Linux and know their stuff. The Loki games that I have played have been very impressive. Blizzard would have to hire new Linux programmers any way.

    It's standard programming practice to use available libraries when you can, instead of reinventing the wheel. This is the same thing. Why do the port themselves when Loki can do it very well themselves.

    Morgan
  • If consider the (way too short, IMHO) lifespan of games, most people propably won't even remember C&C2 a year from know.

    Depends on how good the game is. I still play more Quake 1 than Quake 3, becuase the weaps in Quake 3 suck ass. I still play C&C, and would probably play Marathon if I could find some people to network with.

    Tiberian Sun brings nothing new to the genre

    Westwood didn't reinvent the wheel like Bungie did with Myth, but there are some nice new features. Burrowing tanks, rivers thaw and freeze over, shifting from night to day are all new. What is new is variable terrain and how it slows down units to varying degrees (hopefully no more tank rushes).
  • i played tiberian sun last night (ah, the joys of having friends who obtain not-so-legal copies of games that haven't exactly been released yet), and it was exceedingly boring in comparison to starcraft. the ai is okay, and there are a few nice points about it, but in general it offers too much complexity and too much room to get completely screwed before you're even off the ground. it's more on the level of warcraft 2 than starcraft, only with many more units and a much less interesting matching between races. my prediction is that warcraft 3 will be much, much better.
  • while WC3 looks (allmost) revolutionary

    Yeah, it's Starcrap plus DiaBlow plus that junked Warcraft storyline!
  • This is only my opinion of course but it seems like warcraft1 was a copy of dune2.

    Dune2 is alot like dune2000 is today but better in strategy and it ran on old 286 and 386 pc's. Dune2 was the first war strategy game ever created and it won all kinds of awards. I believe it runs on dosemu and wine. Whats really cool is there is no mutlimedia trash in it like today's games.

    I like the old games alot better. IT seems years ago more thought was given to the game itself rather then 3d graphics and multimedia.

    Want to know what my 2 favorite 3D shooters are?

    Doom1 and duke Nukem3d. I don't like quake. Doom1 had a better atmosphere that concentrated on dark enviroments and haunting music then todays 3D shooters. But the main thing was the detail of game itself and the levels. Remember the level with the boxes?

    Today its just run and shoot with no haunting music and the visuals are just 3D rendered castle bricks, windows and wood which really don't add to the creepy high tech atmosphere of Doom1. The visuals matched the levels. I believe John Romeo was brillant on atmosphere. Its a shame he left ID software. Carmack is great programmer but he cares more about action and quick code then time consuming detail that Romeo likes.

    Duke Nukem was cool because you felt immersed in the game. Duke had a character and personality that you felt attached too.

    I also love the goal oriented Ultima series. What ever happened to them?

    What ever happened to the good old days of gaming and computers?

    The reason why I am into computers today is because of games I played in junior high. Nintendo games were too immature for me and were controlled by game marketers while games were made by fun individuals so the games were more intelligent. I can't stand pointless action games like street fighter2 and mortal combat whre you win the game by hitting the buttons faster on the controllers but I loved ultima and dune2 where I had to think to win. PC games are looking more and more like cheap nintendo games.

    I believe game marketing droids and bussinesses who think great software is created by companies and not indivudals have taken over the game industry.

    This concept is also why Microsofts products are sub-standard. MS word, VB and Powerpoint were created by individuals and not companies and were bought. Windows was created from ground up by a company and thats why it sucks.

    Linux started out as an individuals project and it sill is to some extent. Today its just divided down by hundreds of people each doing there own thing that the individuals do best like one writes ethernet drivers, another focuses on the kde gradients, while another focuses on USB ports. This is why linux is so stable. No greed or corporate bs is involved.

    What a sad world we live in. I wish the current game industry would just die and the old fun game industry would return. I just read an article here on how the game industry is turning into a very boring and uncreative industry. I believe the poster was quite right on this.

    Unless games are written by people and not companies all these games are going to suck or be half-good.

    For example on dune2 I kept getting my butt kicked by rocket turrets until I examined the range of my missle tanks and relized if I took just one tank out of the range of the turret then I could capture the base. Details like this are not in dune2000 and warcraft.

    All you do is make a huge legion of men that are bigger then the enemies and take over. Duh. Thats too easy and thoughtless! Even a 7 year old can figure that out. IT seems todays games judge players by how fast they hit buttons on controllers like Mortal Combat and street fighter2 or how quick you can build tanks like Command and conquer.

    Its all immature and pointless.

    Why can't it be like the good old days where your infantry gets killed so quickly that its too expensive to make legions of troops and you have use thought to win a level instead of sheer force or quick reactions liek Mortal Combat!

    Perhaps I liked these games more because I was a teenager at the time and I am more mature now. I still wish I had my dune2 diskettes. This was my favorite game of all time. Zelda and doom1 were also great games.

    What do you all think about this? Any old timers out there agree with me?

    I also miss the BBS's. The internet practically killed them.
  • They should IMHO upgrade the BattleNet servers. The prime reason everyone at my house stopped playing StarCraft was not that it got old, but BattleNet became unusable. Lag, downed servers, lag, lag, downed servers, problems that Blizzard didn't seem able to fix. Now that everyone is addicted to Everquest (ack, what an awful game) I am sure that its better but if I can't play with my mates then its not that fun for me...

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