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Quake First Person Shooters (Games)

No Next Q3Test 144

Posted by Hemos from the gonna-have-to-wait dept.
Jacek Fedorynski writes "The Quake god recently interviewed on Slashdot, John Carmack, updated his .plan with word that there will be no next version of Q3Test - the next release will be a full demo with bot support and one more map (for beginners). The date of the release hasn't been set yet. Carmack also comments on the new Macintoshes. "
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No Next Q3Test More

No Next Q3Test

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  • redo quake1 (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Someone should redo quake 1 with the q3a engine. Q1 is still my absolute favorite game. You just can't beat the dark midevil gothic look. Not to mention the realistic sound effects (thanks trent!) The sound effects in q2 were a real disappointment, everything sounded tinny and hollow. Fire a rocket and *ker chink*. What kind of sound is that? People knew when you were firing a rocket in q1. Speaking of rockets, why don't they do any splash damage in q3a? That was their main advantage, make the rocket explode off the floor or wall near someone. Now its just another bullet like gun.
  • Actually slashdot is whatever rob malda thinks is cool. :)

    At least, that's what he said in the interview.

    Since when is /. Linux/Unix/Tech news site?
  • The first one that came out hurt to play in Linux or Windows, but 1.08 is much smoother even if it isn't as pretty as with a TNT. It's still not liquid smooth like Q2 though.. if it doesn't make another improvement like it did between the first test versions, looks like I'll be getting a new celeron, mobo, and TNT2U.
  • Dude, you got it all wrong.. REDO Commander Keen! All you have to do is make sure people only strafe, and make the levels reaaaaally long..
  • Try reading... they said there's not going to be a NEW Q3Test. v1.08 is available, but the much-heralded v1.09 will NOT be released - Carmack has decided to go straight on into a finalized demo release.

  • if its a full demo givin away, what does he plan to sell? how to make money when everyone has it?

    The usual pattern is that the the demo/shareware version only has a few maps. Add-ons (extra maps and such) won't work with it. You need the full version to play the custom maps etc. I suppose they'll continue in this vein since it seems to net them a dollar or two. :-)

    dylan_-


    --

  • That would take some serious arguing...
  • Wow, that must be the weirdest Incoherent Stream of Consciousness/Shameless Plug hybrid I've yet seen on Slashdot... Remember, you have to post first and smoke the weed second.

    Besides, how can anybody call themselves a "wotter" when the game doesn't even have a lousy demo out?
  • Out of all of them, I find q3test2 to be the best 1 on 1 (much better than q3boringme^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^tourney).

    Why am I replying to a thread that's off of the main page? It's not like anyone will read my comment (as insightful as it is....)

  • Strange, I find Q3Test to be fairly playable on my box, and I'm in worse shape than you...

    I'm only on a K6-2 300 with 64MB of RAM and a Monster 3D II 8MB card. But I don't sit there and watch my frame rate, and I actually found software Quake playable on a Cyrix 233. I guess I'm weird.
  • Nerds play quake.

    I don't. I hate Quake. It's ugly as hell. It's relatively boring. It's never impressed me all that much. I like first person games, but I was a much bigger fan of Marathon and Marathon2. They scared the shit out of me. Quake, like Doom, is just a bunch of brown shapes on a brown background. If that's what floats your boat, good for you. But please don't think everyone cares. Geeks, imho, play corewar. ;)

  • Odd, it works really nice on my P2-350, 128mb, EIDE Quatrum Bigfoot [uhhg], ATI Rage Pro [uhhg].. 20 fps at 640x480 and 120 pings over 56k.. Its not spectacular.. but for an ATI rape?

    Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
  • Did you actually play it? Q3test2 is not small, not indoors, and I bet I can rail you from the other side of it. :> Sure, yeah, yeah, it's a big map space-wise. But in terms of play, that map is TINY. And not much going on. What, like 7-8 smallish platforms for a bunch of blue & red Fisher-Price robot guys to cram onto and randomly gib? Q3A does not impress me so far. I still play Q2 more, and Unreal Tournament more than that.
  • That would take some serious arguing...

    Gawd! Not by me! Just looking at the progress between Q2 and Q3, and between Unreal and UT.

    I've heard there are a lot of subtle, nice advances in the Quake line. But Q3A feels like Fischer-Price to me, and Q2 feels better. Maybe it's just that I'm not used to it.

    But in the Unreal line, you have a completely new GUI library set for mod making, new improvements to the built-in Object Oriented scripting language (!!!! C DLL's from nasty, gnarled, uncommented code? What?) which include Mutators that give you mix-and-match game components (!! I can play CTF and have the Disco Gravity gun too?!)... just seems so much stuff that is an ADVANCE over the predecessor that Q3A lacks, and doesn't seem like it'll get in time for a Real Soon Now release.

    Unreal is the Emacs of 3D games, just unfortunately without the Free Software goodness.
  • I totally agree with you. When it comes to game play there is nothing that compares with quake 1 in my book.

  • From bluesnews.com....

    "Bzzt [Blue-5:09 PM EDT]

    One of those rare, but inevitable moments of technical difficulties is upon us. Our finger script blew a cork, so if you are having problems accessing one of the .plan links above, that is the problem, we're working on it. We also had to purge some unread email from the mail server as a result of the server crash that the finger script caused, so it's possible your message was lost if it was sent in within the last hour or so, and you might want to resend it. Sorry about the problems, any patience you can spare while we investigate what's up is appreciated."

    ----

    Way to go. You /.'ed the finger script at bluesnews.com. How about mirroring it next time, i.e. finger johnc@idsoftware.com > localcopy.txt, then link the local copy?

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Besides the curved surfaces, what really is going to make Quake III any different than Quake II?

    Besides a 3rd dimension, what made Wolfenstein better that Command Keen? Besides 2 more degrees of freedom, what made Quake better than Doom? ;-)
  • Agreed regarding clear decisions, but also Apple would be hurting if people bought $1300 iMacs instead of $2300 G3s.

  • sweet (Score:1)

    by Xtacy ( 12950 )
    Can't wait to play this, just wondering tho, if its a full demo givin away, what does he plan to sell? how to make money when everyone has it? new mpas? would think there would be free maps available all over the place.
  • Thank you! :) I really enjoyed this reply, and while i do plan on buying the full version, i was just curious about it and you have explained quite well.

    Thanks again
  • That's the problem with Linux. It is very hard to create something that will have reasonable chance of running out of the box on most Linux systems out there. If this issues is not resolved, Linux will not gain popularity as the platform for serious gamers ( whatever that term means .. )

  • Unplayable? How? Please tell me that it wasn't due to lack of speed. It runs like the wind on a 300 MHz G3 with Rage128. According to the Apple ads (*evil grin*) the Pentium is slower, but surely it's not that much slower..... (*eviller-grin*) I mean, Apple was just exaggerating, right? (*evil-shit-eating-grin*) I mean, everyone knows that marketroids all lie. (*More-evil-than-Satan-himself-grin*)


    ---
  • Would you please examine your startup log for q3test and tell me if it really says "smp enabled". Mine says "2 processors detected...smp disabled". I do not believe anyone has this working on linux.
  • Wow! Do you work for Family PC by any chance? ;)
  • Gamers were looking forward to the improvements in test version 1.09. Now we have to wait another 2 months. Arrrrrrrrgh.

    /me sticks to JohnC and machineguns him to death.
  • I *do* have textures all the way up. I actually can't change the settings or the thing will segfault on me.

    Frightning, eh?
  • Figure out how to use that mezzanine slot to use a V2 card? I'm sure Apple would like to know how you got one in there considering that there are no PCI slots.

    It's not a secret; there's a company that's been selling V2 upgrades (via the Mezzanine slot) for the original iMacs for a while. They went out of business and the line was recently picked up by another company.

    -jon

  • Just a quick note: The 3DFX drivers are a quick 3D only hack (not that this is a bad thing, they're the best way to play q3 on linux right now).

    The Nvidia drivers are a traditional GLX driver, in which all textures and drawing commands must get funneled through a unix socket. This means that all drawing happens in the context of the X server, which is great if you have a SMP box, but sucks otherwise.

    Theoretically, nvidia could have made a full-screen only hack like 3DFX, but evidently they have choosen to wait for XF4 and PI's DRI to do 3D fullscreen and in a window at full speed. And I can't say I really blame them. Of course, I'm not a game junkie, and the current nvidia driver is pretty damn fast on my SMP machine. Primarily because my code does no texturing.
  • Will leaving the default 3.3.5 SVGA driver work? I just upgraded to a RH 6.1 system, and pushed the Nvidia driver over the top again, but that little glitch with emacs is bugging me. I can't find an updated rpm, and don't really don't feel like recompiling if I don't have to...any suggestions?
  • Rumor once had it that Apple was looking at alternatives to ATI. Or at least, looking for additional cards to offer in it build to order configurations. Mmmm... Nvida and a G4
    --
  • Quake 4 and Quake 5 was metaphorical... Meaning I want to see more kick-ass games.
  • All top-quality software is worth buying, and this includes Quake. Support the folks at ID, because I want to see Quake 4, and Quake 5. If no one buys the software, who will finance the development?

    The best things in life are not always free!
  • Unplayable on a 300? What do you mean "unplayable???". I was playing it on a 64MB P166 (non-MMX) with a Voodoo 1. It was slow, sure, but I did a lot of playing against my roomate with it. He's not as good, so he got my 450 Mhz-256MB-Nvidia TNT machine. But I still beat him. Heh.

    Azog (Torrey Hoffman)
  • Easy, weapons...

    The test is missing several weapons, as I expect the demo will be as well. Buy the game, get the weapons. Some quite important weapons too I might add. Grenade Launcher? BFG?
  • The real money is in licencing the Quake graphics engine. Can you say Half Life, Sin. Most deals include a percentage of sales as well as an upfront cost.

    A good graphics engine can be used to produce eveything from 3rd person adventures, i.e. Hexen II to real time strategy such as Golgotha.

    So rather then reinvent the wheel, alot of development groups will jumpstart by purchasing an engine and its library.

    That's not to say that you can't develop a stinker anyway. Nothing will replace a good story and solid play balance.

  • You are incorrect, the reload time for the railgun is exactly the same as in quake2.

    And if you dont like the way it looks you can change it:

    set r_railWidth "16"
    set r_railCoreWidth "6"
    set r_railSegmentLength "32"

    Those are new defaults. Personally, i like to get rid of the segments all together. Set it to 1000 and check it out. Also try making the beam really thin.

    For the latest news and 3 cool servers: http://www.netdoor.com/quake3/index.html [netdoor.com]

  • Yeah. Q3test2 is bad for that.

    I've played against someone so good with the rail that if they get it, I can't get more than a few steps from the spawnspot before the first rail, and then if I show my head, being finished off. The only way to beat them is to kill them before they manage to get it.

    I love the tricks you can do in the air on that map. I've gone twenty or so bounces without touching down, it's great.

    My one change to the map would be to remove the rail platform, or at least the part you can stand on. Replace it with a bounce pad, and float the railgun in the air, like the yellow armor, so you get it as you fly out, but then are thrown back onto the level, so you can't sit way out there, where someone who respawns can't hurt you.

    At least when you're on the quad platform, railing down, there are a lot of spots you can't see. The rail platform is perfect for camping, and contains the perfect weapon, and enough health to replenish the odd machinegun bullet your hapless victim tosses your way. It's too good.
  • How true. When player limits are set unreasonably high the game gets less fun. And some maps (q3tourney) just suck.

    Reasonable limits:

    Q3Test1: 2 - 12
    Q3Test2: 2 - 4
    Q3Tourney: 2 - 3

    The open aspect of q3test2 limits the useful number of players. Everyone can be attacked when respawning, and stocking up again is very hard.

    Q3Tourney is a badly designed map in that it's easy for one player to collect all the armor and most weapons/ammo. Three people are recomended to stop massively lopsided games.

    Q3Test1 will work for 1on1 games, but is more appropriate with five to eight people.


    If you run a server with a playerlimit of more than twelve, run two servers. And you might want to not rotate between all maps because different numbers of players are appropriate for each. Q3test1 is playable with 16, q3tourney is not.
  • Unreal is nice, but I can't see how it compares to Q3 in the eye candy department...

    Q3 has vastly more detailed levels and the textures are stunning.

    UT's levels are muted and awkward.

    UT is imho the second best FPS out there, after Q3, but Q3 is *so* far ahead in term of looks.
  • The NVidia TNT drivers for Linux are slow, buggy, unstable and incomplete. NON 3DFx users will probably have to wait for XFree86 4.0. I have tried to get Q2 to work with my TNT on linux. Aside from being a pain to get working, it is also at least trwo times slower than in windows... if you have TNT play in windows for now ..
  • under Linux. Yeah, I know, it works UNOFFICALLY, but not for me. I've tried everything that anyone has suggested (including Zoid (thanks!)) but I still get a dead X server!

    It's a great game, but I ain't gonna reboot into windows for it any more!
  • I have a p2-300 w/ 64 megs of ram and sli voodoo2's. It is 30+fps at 800x600. Normally it is in the 40+ range. Plenty playable. btw, the default under linux for my system was superfast, 640x480, graphics settings were not conservative or anything.
  • Just this past friday I got a VooDoo3 2000 PCI for my computer, and downloaded q3test 1.08 the following day. I downloaded the most recent drivers for my card right after. If you haven't downloaded the most recent drivers for your 3d card, I suggest you do so ASAP. Check your manufactorer's website for the latest drivers for your card.

    Btw, q3test flys on my Celery 333, 32mb ram, VooDoo3 PCI.

    As a further note, when you play online, are you using a 14.4? That would make it damn near impossible to play online too.


    - PovRayMan

    "Cram it doughboy!" - Mimi
  • I do not know if many of you know this, but 3DFX has put out drivers (Beta, but still *very* good) for the Voodoo3 2000 PCI cards. I got one, flashed the rom, and I must say that it really kills ATI in all games, esp. Quake2 -- 52 fps compared to 25fps for the ATI Rage 128 at 1024x768

    Apple has made a big mistake supporting ATI, and would be better off switching to 3DFX (think Voodoo4 AGP in every new G4) The price / performance ratio is amazing, even for these beta drivers.

    For more info on Voodoo3 performance check XLR8 Your Mac [xlr8yourmac.com]
  • Anyone who buys ATI by choice needs their head read. ATI's priorities are totally different from ours... low price, poor quality hardware, awful drivers, and no linux support all seem high on their list.
  • An Athlong with a TNT2 Ultra on it performs as well as the high end graphical workstations of TODAY.

    Er, no. A PIII/GeForce is just about equal to SGI's lower end Onyx2 (comparison recently published), which puts it well below, eg, SGI's other workstations, and many, many HP's, Alpha's and Sun's. You may not realise this, but real time 3D includes engineering, where their is a *big* demand for powerful engines and hardware.

    NAME SOME SOFTWARE

    Unreal, for one, though that's mostly personal preference.

    If engines not-yet-finished but demo'ed count (since Q3 isn't finished, I don't see why they shouldn't) then you have Halo and Oni from Bungie, the former especially. Evolution seems quite nice, as does whatever's driving a few of those PS2 demos (I suppose that doesn't count). I know there are at least two more, but the games didn't look interesting so I've forgotten.
  • I said that people who read slashdot that don't play quake are in the minority. I didn't say that he was the only one. Please read comments more carefully in the future.
  • I've had only little problems running quake2 with ref_glx on my TNT. Just had to get the N vidia drivers [nvidia.com], and make sure I was using their X server that had their implimentation of glx.

    You basically replace your X-SVGA with theirs and statically link X to it instead.

    Then you replace your libMesa.so and link them to the libGL.so.1.0 that Nvidia provides.

    Then ya run quake2 on the command line like this:

    ./quake2 +set vid_ref glx +set gl_driver [PATH FOR LIBRARY]/libGL.so.1.0

    That will open up quake in a window on your machine. It's not the stablest thing (resizing the window when your mouse is captured messes things up) but I've been able to play with few problems.
  • The default 3.3.5 w/ RH6.1 won't work because it doesn't have the GLX drivers.
  • Most people who dislike q3test suck at it. :)

    Nuff said.

    -Warren
  • You want playable? Haha, you've come to the right person. :)

    First, turn the sound quality to low, turn off dynamic lighting.. basically go into game options and turn off everything except for 'identify target.' OK, here's what you want to do:
    set cg_gibs to 0 (HUGE performance gain)
    set r_drawsun to 0
    set cg_simpleitems to 1--it draws ammo boxes as 2d icons--it increases speed and you get used to it. like, you can see the megahealth behind the teleporter in q3test1. :)
    set r_subdivisions to 999
    set r_picmip to 3
    set cg_drawgun to 0
    set cg_draw3dicons to 0
    set cg_railtrailtime and cg_brasstime to 0

    There's probably more I'm missing, but I hope that's a start. I'd upgrade to p2-450.. then you'll be pimping.

    -Warren
  • Man, my birthday just gets better and better. No new Q3Test, after all that Shugashack bragged about 1.09 being so much nicer, and after drooling over the screen shots. This totally blows goats. I might have to give Unreal Tournament a shot...I can't stand the way the rocket launcher's splash radius and speed is now, and the railgun is practically worthless. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  • The reason I follow the quake series is because of its simplicity.

    I play quake from a competitive and fun standpoint, the simplicity allows me to jump into the game and play... the years of playing other FPSs affords me the oppurtunity to beat other people, and further hone my skills.

    Games like unreal with its funny weapons and great graphics, (which I enjoy in a different way), are not suited to competition type games....

    To put it another way... I play q3a and UT with ALL the graphics options OFF... and at 640x480... granted I have a dual 550mhz and so its not a necessity but a choice that I make to help me win. I don't care what the game looks like... I just want good gameplay and lots of frames/sec =]

    Half-life for all its single player glory... doesn't hold a candle to the modability (HUGE HUGE point when it comes to arguing the quake series' success) and multiplayer gameplay of the quake's

    q3a looks to improve upon quakeworld's superior gameplay... and q2 marginally better graphics (cause q2 sure din't have worthy gameplay to speak of, imho)

    Awaiting q3a's release so he can buy the linux version,
    Ecc

  • Someone want to post the real link, or a new link because when I click the link in the article, it gives me a 403 Forbidden error.
  • It's been said before, but.........
    Loki: Tribes for Linux.
    Quake's great, but so is Tribes.
  • Hold on! I think I played two Commander Keens....
    One was called "Aliens ate (or was it "caught") my baby sitter"... I think it was Commander Keen II ?

    Whatever.... I liked it... I think I read something about Commander Keen for the gameboy color?

    Truth be said I'd rather have wolfenstein on the Gameboy Color, but I guess Nintendo caters to small kids here....)


  • There is too a Q3 test. I downloaded it just the other day. It is much more entertaining than Q2 was.

    You can pick up your copy right here [userfriendly.org]. I wonder how A.J. got his hands on it!
  • You've got remember that one of Apple's BIGGEST core markets is pre/post production work (esp. printing). what do they care about? POSTSCRIPT. The ATI RAGE 128/16MB cards have really good postscript acceleration built in.

    It's true that Apple could be both a killer game machine -and- and great pre-print machine. but they probably wouldn't have the same video card.

    What stopping people from buying the G4/450 256/DVD-RAM and putting another AGP video card in? It's not like Macs haven't had dual monitor support (that works-really well) forever. It'd be nice to have it bundled in, but it's not like a majority of PC manu have great cards tossed in for free. you pay for it either way... But I guess Apple should be taking the lead.

    whatever. that's my two cents.

  • If you'll remember Q2, the demo was incompatible in a multiplayer with the full version, or at least I never could get it to run.

    Actually, a friend of mine found a way around this. If you apply one of the official Id Software patches intended for the full version to the demo, you could play multiplayer games jut fine, but it wrecked the single player.

    He did eventually buy the game, by the way, before you start flaming him for that =)

  • I appreciate it. Thanks for posting.

    JOhn
  • Figure out how to use that mezzanine slot to use a V2 card? I'm sure Apple would like to know how you got one in there considering that there are no PCI slots.
  • Consider this. In order to install the TNT drivers you have to rebuild X. Infact for most things in Linux, you have to rebuild SOMETHING. In other OSs, especially Be, even the most Alpha drivers are easy as hell to install.
  • Absolutely, positively, false. I've installed those drivers on at least three occasions the last four months, and not once did I need to rebuild anything.
  • It plays fine for me on a 233 Mhz iMac w/Voodoo2. It's even playable at the highest quality settings. Maybe the G3 actually is faster than the PII.
  • uhm how is the railgun worthless? In 1.08 it has the EXACT SAME PLAY MECHANICS as quake2. 100 points damage and same exact delay between firing. The only diff (besides effect) is how guns in q3 shoot from the middle regardless of which side the weapon model is on.

    Railgun is hardly worthless and like you said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" well DUH, ITS THE SAME FRIGGIN THING.

    I love llamas
  • The game is playable on a Pentium 266 with an ATI rage pro...your card is far better. your cpu is better.

    adjust the settings/resolution dude, you can run that game just fine.
  • who cares?
    its still pretty and fun to shoot people.
    it also represents the most advanced realtime rendering techology around so far. which is cool.
  • What software out there that can run in realtime on consumer hardware that is more advanced?
  • mass market crap?
    dude, the age of the supercomputer is OVER. An Athlong with a TNT2 Ultra on it performs as well as the high end graphical workstations of TODAY. Short of a few weird government simulations, I'd venture to say Quake3 IS the most advanced, prettiest engine out there for realtime 3d.

    Most of the other 3d rendering into which much money has been thrown is not realtime. ie. Toy Story, etc.

    so unless youd like to actually NAME SOME SOFTWARE
    and possibly enlighten me as to its specs, what if can do, maybe some screen shots or pictures even, I'm going to assume your just being silly.

    I would love to be proven wrong here :)
  • take the number of news bits for say...a week, count the number of linux related newsbits and divide that by the total number of newsbits ;) I'm sure you'll get 1/3 at the very least.
  • Pretty strange..i have a PIII and a TNT2 [not ultra]. The thing is...when i switch from 32-bit to 16-bit and vice versa, the game slows down pathetically. If you change the setting, exit the game, and return, it will be fixed. I get around 30-40 FPS in 800X600 32-bit with every option turned all the way up, and about 40-50 in 1024X768, 16-bit.
    Anyway...there you go..I think i remember reading about this, and it should be fixed in the final.
    Enjoy.
  • Well, at least I read it. :-)

    q3test2 is a good 1-1... untill you play against a RailGod(TM)... spawn,die,spawn,die...
    -
  • ...And not much going on. What, like 7-8 smallish platforms for a bunch of blue & red Fisher-Price robot guys to cram onto and randomly gib?

    The fact being: This level was designed for play with 3 people! If there are more, it's pretty random. (I tried with 40...hehe.) But it isn't really id's fault when people set their servers on too many players.

    Speaking of UT... it's quite similar to Morpheus (or whateveritwascalled). Except you can float around. And you have those damn little random jumps that thow you off buildings... (can I turn them off?)

    But sure, UT rocks too, now if they could just get their engine in order on TNTs...

    -
  • Amen!
    I hardly need to reply myself. :-)

    -
  • Indeed. Q3tourney is really a duel map... thats why it sucks with many players. (I happen to hate duels, so it allways sucks for me. ;)

    Q3test1 can go into much higher numbers (i've tried ~40), but it becomes a different kind of game - if you get the RL, you can wreak massive death upon your opponents... otherwise, you might as well play tetris instead!

    Q3test2 with many players is only fun to camp on, but of course no honorable player would do that. *evil grin*


    -
  • The problem where renaming the q3demo directory got you out of restricted demo mode was only applicable to the first test release (1.05?). It's been fixed in later releases.

    -------------
    The following sentence is true.
  • http://finger.planetqu ake.com/plan.asp?userid=johnc&id=13276 [planetquake.com]

    I too received a "Forbidden" error on the original URL. Are we under-privileged in some way?
    --

  • Commander Keen Sucked?!? Are you insane?
  • I've got the same system, (But with half the RAM.(But not for long)) And Q3test runs fine. My frame-rate at 640x400 is better then My Q2 frame-rate at 800x600.
  • I agree. ATI drivers aren't too hot for Windows, either. In a lot of people's opinion, they are a second or third rate chip producer, anyway. In reference to the second reply, I saw a petition to get the NVidia GeForce 256 in the G4. That would be something. ATI is holding the Mac back from really being a killer game machine. Well, that and the Ultra-Retarded one button mouse. I mean who wants to play ANYTHING on a box with 8 megs of VRAM?!
  • I would be very happy about this is the last Q3Test was even remotely playable. I've got a 300MHz Pentium II/128MB RAM/VooDoo2 and the damn thing was unplayable.

    I'm just hoping that the code will be optimized in the next version. And I can't wait to see some of the other bodies that Carmack has cobbeled together.
  • "Well, that's where you and I must agree to
    disagree. I realize that Q3 won't have much of a
    storyline (if any) or single-player aspect, but a
    game requiring little more than cockroach-level
    twitch reflexes is a pretty poor one, indeed."

    1. There's more than just reflexes involved. Being
    able to learn the fighting style of your opponent,
    knowing where he's going (maybe before he himself
    knows it), aiming and leading the opponent
    (hand-eye coordination), planning a good strategy
    for weapons/armor/powerup retrieval.

    2. And we haven't even gotten into the CTF, TF,
    Jail Break mods, or regular teamplay deathmatch.

    3. You sound as if Quake and it's ilk are pretty
    easy to master. Not much to them, right? Just
    "cockroach reflexes." So I'm assuming you're
    pretty awesome at it, then?

    "And it's been done before. I'm wanting more, and
    I suspect I'm not alone here. "

    id Software has never claimed they are making
    an original game in Quake/Quake2/Quake3 as far as
    the genre (after all, they invented FP deathmatch
    with Doom).

    If you "want more" then go play something else.
    Is someone stopping you?

    "I "played" it in the sense that I ran around the level a few times."

    Ahhhh... now I understand. So you tried it once
    or twice and that's all.

    "When I mean outdoor I mean something like
    Tribes...where the map is the equivalent of 4
    square kilometers in size!"

    It's funny that you bring that up. Correct me if
    I'm wrong, but the Quake 3 engine is tailored for
    awesome indoor environments, and the Tribes engine
    is tailored for awesome outdoor environments. You
    act as if Tribes has awesome outdoor stuff, AND
    the indoor stuff is as cool and good-looking as Q3.

    I have yet to see any game that is great in both
    areas, and I suspect it has something to do with
    the previous limitations in 3D rendering and the
    # of development hours it takes to get all the
    features into a game these days. With hardware
    geometry rendering finally viable for consumer
    PC's, here's hoping we see one in the next two
    years.

    And I won't be surprised at all if id Software is
    the first company to come out with an awesome
    engine capable of both environments, seamlessly.

    -WW
  • Slashdot.org | News for Nerds Stuff that Matters

    Nerds play quake. You are in the minority my friend. Also, stuff about John Carmack is Linux/Unix/Tech news. He is one of the only gaming software developers that feels Linux is an OS worth supporting. If you really don't want to hear it just go into your preferences and turn off games.

    p.s. Yes I know iD Software isn't the only developer of linux games, but we aren't talking about Loki, etc... that would be off topic
  • If you're using the 3dfx module the program won't clear some of the permission settings and it'll segfault, don't use the module and run q3test as root and you can change settings till you're heart's content. It took me lots of searching to find this little tidbit of info.

    Hope it helps.

  • I've been playing it on a Pentium 200 MMX with 32 megs of RAM and a Voodoo2 with an EIDE harddrive and it was more than playable. Do you just not know how to configure your system? With a Voodoo2 you can't turn texture detail all the way up because of the 256x256 pixel limit for textures. Now with my K6-2 333 I can turn on everything except for texture detail and it runs fine.
  • uhm why don't you read the readme.txt that comes with q3test1.08. Currently SMP only works in WinNT platform and should be enabled on linux upon full release.

  • Besides the curved surfaces, what really is going to make Quake III any different than Quake II?

    - It much faster. Not faster as in framerate, but faster as in action speed. A massive Q3A deathmatch with like 40 players is the most intensive game experience I've ever had...

    - It is a multiplayer only game. Sure, you will be able to play it yourself against bots, but it's still a simulation of multiplay.

    - Q3A is an arcade-style first-person shooter. It's not supposed to have too much tactics. Sure, games with tactics or awesome storylines are cool, but they are another type of game. Part of the power of the FPS is its simplicity.

    - johnc himself said that they might later do a game that takes better advantage of the Q3A engine. The best thing you can to with the purty visuals right now is to turn them off...

    Small to moderate-sized indoor levels

    Did you actually play it? Q3test2 is not small, not indoors, and I bet I can rail you from the other side of it. :>



    -
  • Please, stick with Linux/Unix/Tech news Some of us aren't big enough gamers to visit blue's on a regular basis but still appreciate it when /. lets us know what is happening with Quake. Now if it was dominated by Quake news, I would see your point. But it's not, and they made the right call here. --- "Progress is the God of the Machine"
  • Yeah. I've got an Abit BP6-based machine. The speed of things on my machine was fairly unplayable when there were >25 people on a server, but after typing the magical "r_smp 1" into the console and relaunching the program, it's been completely playable with just my TNT card (30fps or so, seems reasonable given the current state of XF86's lack of DRI).

    -Rigel
  • My experience with the TNT GL drivers is as such:

    I use the +set r_glDriver to switch between the glide driver and the tnt driver. The TNT driver seems to run better in a window than in full-screen. I cannot get it to run at 1024x768, my screen loses sync completely. 800x600 windowed seems best.

    Video quality is as such:

    Voodoo: Very fast, runs 1024x768(SLI) like butter. Very nice. Thanks, 3Dfx!
    TNT: Acceptable speed, texturing is noticeably more detailed. Runs MUCH faster with vertex lighting, but doesn't look as nice. Some textures show weird "blurring" at distances, that changes as you approach the texture. Puts me in mind of Trespasser graphics (only on some limited textures). One bug I ran into got rid of ALL the textures. Kinda looked like that old Atari arcade game, "Hard Driving."

    Gimme Xfree 4! Gimmie Quake3! Make mine id!

  • Honestly, from what I've seen, very little makes Q3 different from Q2 when you ask the questions you have. However, the one thing I place above all others when looking at a game and it's improvements over it's predecessors is sheer fun value. I play Q3test, and see something far better in those terms than Q2. The sweet graphics and the jettisoning of any pretense at a single player game allow certain improvements in other ares. For example, new graphics and physics engines allow for a far smoother and precise gameplay than existed in Q2. The player's pure skill and reflexes can no longer be blotted out due to a handful of ugly nasty tricks due to flaws in said engines, ala all the trick jumps in Q2's The Edge. You remember, the ones in which you triple rocket jumped off indiviual texture pixels? Further, that boring weapon balance lets a fine melee remain going indefintely, not ruined by some jerk with a room clearing weapon like the older BFG's.

    Also, elements of strategy and tactics do exist, though at a slightly different level. I spend alot of my game time in duels, rather than 30 person melees, and they are a refinement of tactics, especially maneuvering. Granted, it's not much of a level of tactics, but that level of gameplay isn't totally ignored.

    I did try Unreal, but for some reason, the gameplay in it just left me cold, where as I began to love Q3, as soon as my stiff old mind adapted to the unaccustomed speed of the game.

    Perhaps the best comparison I can think of lies in the world of automobiles. Doom was a Pinto. Q2 was an early Mustang, and Q3 is a modern one. On the surface, Q2 and Q3 are almost the same, in weight, horsepower, etc, but when you actually get behind the wheel, there's a world of handling difference, and that handling makes all the difference.

  • Does it really matter? (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 18, 1999 @09:35AM (#1604700)
    Why exactly are so many people excited about the release of a game alpha?

    Sure, it's id stuff and John Carmack's eye-pleasing work. But it's Quake, and for all you can say about the franchise you really can't say that the game itself has changed:

    • Single-player viewpoint
    • Small to moderate-sized indoor levels
    • 8-12 mostly-balanced (yawn) weapons, 1 being some kind of minigun and at least 1 being a shotgun
    • Gorgeous graphics which really don't improve gameplay
    • id's promises that often-requested features not included in the baseline "could be designed by mod authors" (monkeys? ass? flying? what?)
    I've been a big fan of id since the Doom I days, but when I see other titles with essentially the same features with excellent graphics (Unreal Tournament, for example) or clever games that actually bring tactics into play (instead of "just run around and shoot") such as Tribes...well, I gotta wonder how much is fanboy hype when info like this hits the Net press.

    Besides the curved surfaces, what really is going to make Quake III any different than Quake II?

    Steel Maelstrom [www.steelm...gtargettop]

  • Apple - Stuck in the middle with the iBook (Score:3)

    by fuerstma ( 15683 ) on Monday October 18, 1999 @10:10AM (#1604701) Homepage
    Well, here's the deal with the iBooks. Apple's entire goal with the oft-used "four squares on a table napkin" theory is that there is total differentiation between the available products. If you are a student, on a limited budget and want a laptop (assuming you are Apple centric to begin with) there is no choice, it's a no brainer. You want an iBook. If you want a no-compromise machine (since an iBook is really just a Powerbook with some compromises) then you purchase a Powerbook. But, Apple wants to avoid at all costs someone having to wonder what machine is for them.

    In the past this really has caused some additional painful decisions. For example, how much would it have cost to add FireWire onto say the second (266 MHz) or third (333 MHz) generation of iMacs. Very little actually, and it would have sold a lot more machines (a digital video editing solution for $1299 a year ago would've been nifty). However, it would have caused people to have that momentary pause. If I am a "not so informed" digital video producer or the joe moron guy in HR that orders my computers, I sit and wonder, which machine, a G3 or a iMac do I order? By not adding Firewire, the choice is simple. If I need digital video input, I buy a G3. No question.

    I see the same thing happening with the iBook. The video chip is only a 4 MB AGP chip (one or two year old technology) but is more than suffecient for most web surfing/e-mailing/word processing needs. The water gets a little murkier considering the audience of the machines being in the market for games, but I think Apple made the right choice...

  • Re:sweet (Score:3)

    by Score Whore ( 32328 ) on Monday October 18, 1999 @09:04AM (#1604702)
    what does he plan to sell?


    Theoretically the demo will not use third party maps. Plus it would be safe to assume that there will be very few of the bot players (for single player mode) included.

    However, id doesn't have the best track record with decisions in this area. Take the Q2Demo for example. If you install the demo, then install the Q2 3.20 patch you end up with a small DM only game that works with the "official" servers and such. The only problem is that one of the maps uses a different sky than the others and you end up with some real psychodelic visuals on that map. A simple copy and then you have a fully functional DM client (you can play Q2DM1-8.) Download and install the various PGL/OGL maps and you'd be ready to play just about anywhere.

    Looking at the current q3test we find that it supposedly is running in "restricted demo mode" but a simple rename of the demoq3 directory to baseq3 and you have the "unrestricted" mode. This allows you to install the various hacked and reverse engineered maps that are available on the net.

    Given id's record, it's hard to reconcile their official statements (ie. "no reverse engineering", etc.) with their observed actions.

    -sw

  • I'll buy the full one (Score:3)

    by Enroth ( 103501 ) on Monday October 18, 1999 @09:20AM (#1604703)
    The simplest answer as to what to sell is new, and better bots. Chances are that any bots put into the game at this stage of development will be very poorly implemented, and in a few weeks, those of us with out the major net connections needed to use certain weapons well online will be tired of camping bots with infinite accuracy. Also, new maps will alo be a selling point. The vast majority of homemade maps really are inferior. The Id team's experience in making maps really is a major factor.

    Perhaps more important though, many people will purchase a full copy for these reasons. a: Gratitude. Id has allowed us to be involved in the devlopment and testing of this game, and I for one, have gotten well more than 40 or 50 bucks worth of fun out of just q3test. I'll shell out that amount just out of appreciation of the effort that the Id crew has put into the game. b: Server compatibilty. The same people who will buy the game out of gratitude tend to be the same people who run dedicated servers for other's enjoyment. If you'll remember Q2, the demo was incompatible in a multiplayer with the full version, or at least I never could get it to run. So, I went out and bought a copy of Q2, just so everyone else with the full copy could smear me across the Edge. If that same incompatbility exists here, thousands will purchase the full version of Q3A, just so they can get out to try to shave their neighbor with a rail slug.

    In short, Id, by letting the demo out, in near full version, will actually increase their sales, by giving everyone that intoxicating taste of success. Then, everyone rushes out to buy it, so that they can have more fun fragging their friends, who are running that silly full version of the game out of respect for the people who made it.

  • ATI needs a whack (Score:4)

    by jafac ( 1449 ) on Monday October 18, 1999 @11:07AM (#1604704) Homepage
    You scoffed when I said Apple needed to slap that ATI bitch around some.

    But now an "industry authority figure" like Carmack comes up and says it: ATI's drivers on Mac OS suck suck suck (sic). Mac is a huge market for ATI, and they still get no respect. They act as if Mac users should be happy to get a driver period.

    Well, until Jobs can go up and slap that ATI bitch ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H negotiate briskly with them, Macintosh will continue to be a second-rate gaming platform. And to all the Mac lovers out there; I am not trying to dis Macintosh by saying this; I'm trying to state that there is something that needs to be done, and one of Apple's "partners" is letting them down, and preventing them from executing a MAJOR task in their grand business plan.

    "The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."

  • Anybody heard of the command `finger`? (Score:4)

    by NP ( 31775 ) <niklasp.gmail@com> on Monday October 18, 1999 @09:59AM (#1604705)

    Thoose of you who haven't can check out John Carmacks latest plan at http://w3.informatik.gu.se/~niklas/joh nc.txt [informatik.gu.se]

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