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Nintendo's Iwata - Innovate or Die 336

Posted by CmdrTaco from the games-people-play dept.
Linker writes "CNN/Money has interviewed Satoru Iwata, where the president of Nintendo Ltd. says the gaming industry is in the midst of a crisis of innovation, which could lead to its demise. The idea, of course, is to justify the existence of the upcoming Nintendo DS, but Iwata does point out that the gaming market in Japan has been shrinking in the past few years - and the U.S. and Europe may do so soon."
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Nintendo's Iwata - Innovate or Die More

Nintendo's Iwata - Innovate or Die

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  • *Innovate or DIE!* (Score:5, Funny)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) * on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:50PM (#9207984) Homepage
    Why do I suddenly have this mental image of a swarm of bees chasing down a game designer?

    • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:4, Funny)

      by mekkab ( 133181 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:55PM (#9208032) Homepage Journal
      Because there hasn't been enough innovation since 720 the arcade game.

    • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ironghost ( 92274 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:57PM (#9208066) Homepage
      It's because people are stuck in these linear games with absolutely minimal amounts of ability to change the outcome or environment. Game devlopers have lost their ability to let the imagination of the gamer come through. It's sad that people haven't pushed enough to cause some changes. I don't blame the developers, they're giving what the majority of the consumers want...MINDLESS GAMES.

      If we all pushed a little we could get games that are bleeding edge and innovative, but the number of these titles will be limited as long as every joe schome dishes out his 50$USD for some mindless point and click linearly story driven boxed pile of horse *!@#!

      Just my thoughts

      • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Pxtl ( 151020 )
        Funny, your first half of your message was the exact opposite of my problem - games have gotten _too_ non-linear. I find that in many modern games I spend far, far too much time wandering around lost, hoping for some indication of anything that will help me progress. If a game is an action game, then I want action. I want to move forward into the next room and fight something exciting. Not wander around retracing my steps hoping to find something I missed because I've exausted all the possible action in

      • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:4, Insightful)

        by advance512 ( 730411 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:08PM (#9208208)
        The problem is that most of the game concepts have been done already..

        Now, I'm not trying to get myself a Bill Gates style quote ("640k is..."), but seriously - there isn't much more to do, and what there is to do - is very very hard to think of or implement.

        It's just like cinema. What new genre has the cinema introduced in the last decade or more? There are some ground breaking technical movies who have interesting stories that combine thanks to technology - Pulp Fiction, Memento are two examples I can think of. Fight Club was amazing. LOTR improved on the fantasy genre. But in the end, I can't think of anything totally new.

        Games will eventually start being more and more similar to movies or to real-life. Better AI, better graphics, interesting ways of presentation and good stories. But the genres will remain the same, with rarely any innovation - if any at all.

        • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:5, Interesting)

          by ironghost ( 92274 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:20PM (#9208358) Homepage
          Games will eventually start being more and more similar to movies or to real-life. Better AI, better graphics, interesting ways of presentation and good stories. But the genres will remain the same, with rarely any innovation - if any at all.
          This is what I think should happen, but I think that the story should not be linear cut and dry. I like multiple endings, I like being able to change the character/story as time progresses/the mood I'm in. Game developers I feel should be less story tellers, and more of environment builders allowing us to progress with the tools they allow us under our own intellect and capabilities. Let us create the story in the world that they give us.

      • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:5, Insightful)

        by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:46PM (#9208726) Journal
        Thus you see probably the biggest potential in the ONLINE gaming market.

        Granted, they still have to figure out a paradigm solution to the "how can Joe Sixpack (who plays a few hours a week) have fun in the same world as l33t g4m3rZ (who play 30+ hours per week)", but the interest value, the innovation, and sheer unpredictability of human opponents will outweigh that of even top-notch AI's for many years to come.

        A developer has a choice:
        1) Spend $5 million building a complex, detailed storyline single player game with multiple solutions and plot branchings, detailed character interaction and clever 'learning' AI. Most people (who actually play 3d Magnum Deer Hunter XXVI) won't even buy it, some will play it for an hour or two before hunting for the walkthrough online, and only a very teeny % will actually play through and enjoy 90% of the investment.
        2) Spend $3 million making an online game where you can continually input content over time, you can get players to pay $15/month to play it as long as you're willing to pay the continuing bandwidth, server, and staff costs to support it, and let THEM pretty much create the interactions and plotlines internally.

        #2 looks like a pretty good option.

      • It's because people are stuck in these linear games with absolutely minimal amounts of ability to change the outcome or environment. Game devlopers have lost their ability to let the imagination of the gamer come through.

        The problem with changing outcome or environment is that it increases the amount of possible paths through the gameworld. If, for example, there's 3 possible paths through each area, it triples the amount of content needed in the game. If there's eight choices you can make during an adve

      • Re:*Innovate or DIE!* (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Macgrrl ( 762836 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @06:49PM (#9209786)

        As a RPG designer I would agree that one of the key differences between a CRPG and a tabletop game at a game convention is that the CRPG is often linear in it's resolution (often only one viable solution), whereas a tabletop game has to accomodate anything the players come up with. Players are extremely scathing about "fishhook" modules - game that drag you along a set path as if their was a fishhook in your mouth.

        I have no idea what would be involved in giving a CRPG the degree of flexibility you can get in a table top game, there would need to be character AIs which change their actions based on past actions and behaviours of the PCs. The biggest problem would be writing all the branches to emulate the way a tabletop GM can ad lib.

      • One of the biggest things you can do is to support independent developers. There are a number of smaller developers out there that are trying to push the envelope in gameplay. Of course, with limited resources the smaller developers can't provide the flash and dazzle of the larger games.

        I'm part of one of those smaller game development houses; we develop online RPGs. Our current game, Meridian 59 [meridian59.com], is a classic online RPG with open PvP. Yes, open PvP isn't for everyone, but many people wish to have this

  • Waste of time? (Score:4, Informative)

    by MisterP ( 156738 ) * on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:53PM (#9208011)
    I grew up playing video games (mostly during the winter months). I had a Coleco, NES, Genesis and later played a lot of PC games at college. (Doom, Quake, etc). Looking back at it now, I just can't believe I wasted as much time as I did.

    Things are even worse now that games are getting to be so complicated. Unless I can pick up a game, figure it out in 10 minutes, I don't want to play it. I refuse to commit large chunks of time to games anymore. Which is why I still play Tetris and all the classics on a Game Boy when I have a few minutes to kill on a commute or something.

    It seems like the lack of innovation has simply spawned more and more complicated games that people don't want to bother with.

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Troed ( 102527 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:58PM (#9208079) Homepage Journal
      The above is why I have more fun with Nintendo games than any other games, as a whole. Sure - I own an Xbox and a PS2 as well, but the bulk of my games are for the Gamecube. Nintendo just makes games that are fun playing, and that you don't need to read the manual to understand.

      However, playing PGR2 on XboxLive is _really_ fun, I'll admit to that.



      • you make a point, a good example is super smash bro's malee(sp) simple stupid when you think about it but so much fun. do think it's not what we think but our geeneration. As a child I was a gamer holick archade atari, SNES I would have easily let my life drain away if my dad didnt' step in. Now i'm a dad and I can't understand the addiction my son has even though I myself was addicted.I think the problem has to do with game costs. Kids who are the main players simple cant' afford $50 a pop games. anythin

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:59PM (#9208083)
      Having fun sure is a waste of time, not a day goes by that I'm not thankful I stayed away from as much enjoyment as I could growing up. Everyone should stop wasting time enjoing themselves and just take up stamp collecting like us normal people.
    • I feel your pain. I myself play simple games on my cellphone during public transportation commutes...

      my favourite (ok, the most playable) game on my cellphone is a form of video-poker.

      I'm starting to wonder if the odds arent overly stacked against me... I never win more than a certain amount until I inevitably start to lose everything, which makes me want to throw the damn phone against the floor of the bus.
      • I never win more than a certain amount until I inevitably start to lose everything, which makes me want to throw the damn phone against the floor of the bus.

        1. Play game on phone
        2. Get mad at game
        3. Throw and break phone
        4. Buy new phone
        5. (Cell phone maker) Profit!!!

      • > I never win more than a certain amount until I inevitably start to lose everything, which makes me want to throw the damn phone against the floor of the bus.

        Those are features added by the marketing department: the more frustrated you become with a phone, the more likely you become to destroy it, therefore being forced to buy a new one. Unfortunately, however, you are hooked on these maddeningly aggravating games, so have to buy a phone from the same company. It's all too easy...

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Jotaigna ( 749859 )
      I agree, but also can suck in younger minds. When i was little i played heaps of Atari. Moctezuma, Bruce Lee and the like, and all we could comment with my friends was, thats a cool game.

      I have listened to my younger cousins conversations regarding games and its like a subculture where they describe places they've been, weapons they own and monsters they kill. "How do you get super magic level 3 armor without the money?, you must first talk to the wizard and bla bla bla....". Ive only seen such avid and c

      • "How do you get super magic level 3 armor without the money?, you must first talk to the wizard and bla bla bla....".

        The worst part is that most kids don't figure that out for themselves; they read the guide or the walkthrough. It's like they want to watch a movie where they can make someone walk around in a different direction for a minute if they want to.

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by rupert2000 ( 618488 )
      Theoretically the cost per hour of console gaming is quite low. Especially if you buy your games used and resell them someplace like half.com. Considering the cost of other forms of entertainment like watching movies and computer gaming it is relatively cheap.

      Of course in practice this is often not the case :-)

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:05PM (#9208166) Journal
      I grew up playing video games (mostly during the winter months). I had a Coleco, NES, Genesis and later played a lot of PC games at college. (Doom, Quake, etc). Looking back at it now, I just can't believe I wasted as much time as I did.

      Wasted? A moment enjoyed is never wasted.

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:05PM (#9208168) Homepage
      I have piles of Systems at home. Sega origional system ,saturn, dreamcast.... every nintendo machine made, and a couple of atari systems. as well as all the Sony creations. except for a couple of games on the PS2 and MarioKart on the Gamecube... the N64 and the supernintendo get most of the use.

      Sorry, but southpark for N64, goldeneye and alot of the other classics are simply more fun to play. New games coming out simply suck. I go and shop every month, nothing for the PS2, even the $19.00 cheapie "classics" interest me, the Gamecube has no new games that I dont already have that are of any interest. I try, I rent things that might be interesting and end up dissapointed every time.

      Games today just plain suck. I love Ut2004 on the pc, but that kind of game (FPS that is) sucks big time on a system withough a mouse and only 10 buttons, same as a flight sim without a real yoke and throttle controller.

      They could work on making games that are actually fun and addictive instead of the same old crap over and over and over.

      having 90,000 polygons per object and realistic shading is worthless if the games just plain suck.
    • Sounds like they're suffering from the same market fragmentation as the War Gaming (tabletop wargaming, of course) industry did once upon a time.

      Many games, each requiring a significant time to master, means that fewer people will play each one. And as the games get more expensive to make (as they try ever harder to attract an audience share), they require more players to be profitably made.

    • That's a bit of an overgeneralization, and I hope you don't really feel as strongly about what you said as it sounds. While it's true that some games require a huge time investment (especially rpg's), it's nowhere near as bad as it sounds.

      Games have undoubtedly gotten more complicated. This isn't due to a lack of innovation, it's due to new technologies allowing lots of innovation. The fact that there's a huge amount of money involved in the game industry has spawned many companies that just respin older g

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ryanwright ( 450832 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:14PM (#9208285)
      Looking back at it now, I just can't believe I wasted as much time as I did.

      Agreed. I haven't been big into gaming since Starcraft. The wife and I filled our living room with computers when that came out and spent the large bulk of our time gaming with friends. Looking back, we spent 2-4 hours on almost a nightly basis. Fridays would start by 6:00pm and continue until 1:00am or later; we played until our wrists just couldn't move the mouse any more.

      Sure, we had fun, but what a waste of time. I could have been developing some cool piece of software, or building something, really anything but sitting on my butt doing what amounts to nothing.

      So here I am surfing Slashdot instead. Hmmm... maybe I shouldn't submit this. Oh well.

    • Things are even worse now that games are getting to be so complicated. Unless I can pick up a game, figure it out in 10 minutes, I don't want to play it. I refuse to commit large chunks of time to games anymore. Which is why I still play Tetris and all the classics on a Game Boy when I have a few minutes to kill on a commute or something.

      See, I think games haven't become that complicated, in fact:

      Back in the early to mid '90s simulations where all the rage, I had the entire Microprose collection and love

    • Re:Waste of time? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DroopyStonx ( 683090 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:27PM (#9208423)
      Eh? And which games are "too complicated"?

      Excluding more advanced and in depth MMORPGs (Everquest, FF11, etc), single player RPGs (Morrowind), or an RTS game (Warcraft, Starcraft, etc.), games, for the most part, aren't complicated at all.

      GTA: You have a button for gettin in a car, running, jumping, and switching weapons. Not too complex there. Get in a car, drive to your destination, get a mission.

      Fighting games? Not very complex. Most are designed around the Tekken/Virtua Fighter modes where you have weak/medium/strong attacks. That's it. Unlike earlier fighting games, moves, combos, and finishing moves are listed for you within the game.

      Survival Horror? Every one I've played is pretty simple to figure out. You pretty much walk, shoot, and solve puzzles. What about FPS games like Halo and Unreal? Not much to them aside from knowing where the move/shoot buttons are.

      RPGs like Diablo are pure hack & slash. Yeah, you can incorporate strategy into it, but it takes a whopping 5 minutes to read up on how to socket your items.

      Sure, you have your occasional game that takes a while to figure out, but those aren't geared toward those who'd rather flip blocks for 20 minutes then call it a day.

      But one thing is for certain: game today are NOT too complicated by any means. I think you must be gettin old ;)
    • hence is why I chose nintendo titles, such as Metroid Prime, Smash Brothers melee, and the zelda games, because they're more straightfoward on their controls.

      many other games have you do all these complicated menus to change weapons, or whatever, can be very annoying when you're getting your ass shot at.

  • DS (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mix_master_mike ( 540678 )
    I've been thinking about the new DS for a long time and haven't thought of many gaming methods to take advantage of the dual screen. Alright, this is off-topic.. Anyway - the donkey kong mario racer game that the last pic showed had your location on the track... big deal... the next innovation for them should be making the gamboy thinner with a larger screen, not fatter with two.

  • That's because the new games suck! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by junkymailbox ( 731309 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:53PM (#9208018)
    I dont play any more console games cause they just plain suck. I dont care much for the improved graphics if the gameplay is horrible and rehashing another horrible game yet again. I would rather play a text game on my palm that's fun than play some impressive looking game that sucks.
    • Whine whine.

      There are tons of good innovative games out there, the problem is that nobody buys them. (Sometimes.)

      For instance, look at a title like Beyond Good and Evil. This is one of the most compelling games I've seen in a long time and, only a few months after it's initial release, it's $20 in the bargain bin because nobody bought it. Or how about Syberia, an excellent adventure game recently released for XBox and PC? Crimson Skies for XBox? That's pretty innovative. Or Prince of Persia, which i

  • Kids these days... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mz6 ( 741941 ) * on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:54PM (#9208020) Journal
    "Consider this: Older gamers have fond memories of games like "Tetris," "Space Invaders" and "Pong." But when Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine put them in the hands of a group of 10-13 year olds last year, the results weren't pretty. Rather than seeing the games' charms, the kids were bored - and mocked the titles mercilessly."

    Sweet merciful crap! If it wasn't for these games, nobody would have wanted to grow up to be a game designer and create some of the games we see today. Some of those kids' parents need to just slap those brats across the face!

    Reminds me of the scene in Back to the Future II, "You mean you have to use your hands? Aww, that's a baby's toy!"

    • I doubt EGM did anything more useful than taking out their old GameBoy and handed it to some editor's kid. This is going to be somebody who is throughly spoiled when it comes to the games they get to play. The latest releases on the latest hardware. Given that, no wonder the kids "mocked the tittles mercliessly". Not to mention if they put that on the cover how many more copies are going to be bought up by older gamers who may not have even like the rag to begin with.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Sweet merciful crap! If it wasn't for these games, nobody would have wanted to grow up to be a game designer and create some of the games we see today. Some of those kids' parents need to just slap those brats across the face!

      I like how these kids are quoted talking about GTA3 when they can't be older than 12. Apparently someone has to explain the finer points of the ratings system to these parents. As another poster pointed out, though, they're probably the editors' kids and therefore get all the games
    • I wouldn't be surprised if that EGM article [egmmag.com] was a joke. Those kids talk like Dawson's Creek cast members.

      Anyway, most of the games that they looked at really do suck by today's standards. The fact that they inspired the games that we have today is irrelevant. Just because Mario 64 is a great game doesn't mean that most people would enjoy playing SMB1 for more than a few minutes.

      But the kids who bashed Tetris? They deserve to die.

      Rob
    • I think present generation always takes innovation of the past for granted. This is especially true in the field of media and entertainment.

      Take films for example. Early silent films, like "Battleship Potemkin" and "The Birth of a Nation" (factoring out its racist narrative) contributed greatly to the field of filmmaking in regards to storytelling techniques and editing. They were revolutionary. But how many film goers of today would actually enjoy them and/or seek them out?

      -B
  • .. would be releasing Animal Crossing in Europe. For some bizarre reason this Sims-meets-the-fuzzy-wuzzies game has been released in Australia but never over here.

  • Great. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Raindance ( 680694 ) * <johnsonmx@NOSPam.gmail.com> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:54PM (#9208027) Homepage Journal
    Frankly, I think it's great that the game industry (at least Nintendo) is trying to innovate itself out of this potential problem.

    Yay free market.

    I'd like it even more if certain other industries could be made to feel this same pressure.
    • Maybe the videogame industry will wake up and realize that originality is the way to go! Oh, wait, no, false alarm - they've just announced another six Army Men games hitting the Gamecube.

  • No innovation??? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:55PM (#9208029)
    What does he mean there's no innovation in the game industry? I mean, looking at my shelf, I've got Madden 2003, Gran Turismo 3, Tekken 3, Onimusha 3, Super Mario 3...Oh, wait, I think I get it...
    • I quote from the article :)

      The DS features two screens, one of which can act as a touch screen, which is incorporated into games.For example, Sega had a Sonic title on display at the show, where Sonic's rate of speed was dependent upon how fast you could move the stylus (or your finger) back and forth across the bottom screen. [...] Making those changes, Iwata feels, is the only way to keep people from getting bored.

      This is not a visionary article about the future of the gaming industry. It is an articl

  • Offtopic mod down (Score:3, Funny)

    by Prince Vegeta SSJ4 ( 718736 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:55PM (#9208034)
    this may be a little offtopic, but I was just reading about the Nintendo DS, Video Games and the Alpha Release of Windows Longhorn.

    Then I thought wow Microsoft has been releasing a popular game for years, and nobody realized it. No I'm Not talking about Flight Simulator. I am talking about THIS [amazon.com]

    • Ummm WORMS started from a British country on the PC... MicroSoft keeps buying franchises from the guys who have good ideas.

      They are into acquisitions in the game market, not innovation.

  • Next Killer Genre (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mr Pippin ( 659094 )

    What's the fundemental basis for each console generation.

    1st Generation Consoles - 2D

    2nd Generation Consoles - 3D

    Each generation defined a genre of games that eventually saturated the market. Having the 2nd generation recede is not that surprising. The question will be "Who will invent the next unique genre of games that spurs the market once again."
    • Did you not see the Playstation 9 commercial? :)
    • By my count there have been at least 6 "generations" of consoles based on the hardware.
      1. Non interchangable Pong units
      2. Atari, coleco, intellivision era
      3. NES, SMS era
      4. SNES, Genesis era
      5. PSX, Saturn, N64 era
      6. PS2, Xbox, Dreamcast era

      • I am referring to the platform basis that has followed the general marketing curve.

        The first generation started with pong units and effectively ended with the NES. The second generation effectively started with the Sega and SNES units one up to the present.

        The first widespread use of 3D gaming I can recall was the SNES with games like Starfox

  • Seriously, innovate guys. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stephenisu ( 580105 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:56PM (#9208045)
    Most companies won't though.

    Pushing the same crap over and over is fairly risk free.

    God knows I own every Zelda game (excluding the 3D0 crap).

  • I blame EA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:57PM (#9208063) Homepage Journal
    Seriously. If the 'big gaming company' took more risks (hell, they are big enough to take risks) on innovative games instead of working on sequels to games or the latest shooter, the gaming industry would be more exciting.

    Instead, we are fed the same old games.

    But can you blame them? Works in hollywood like a charm.
    • A few years ago, there were an whole lot of innovative, more-or-less independent titles produced for the PC: like Sacrifice, Giants Citizen Kabuto, Black & White, Startopia, etc.

      A lot of them didn't do so hot. Most of those development groups have folded. Assy Black & White is the only one of the above franchises that's still alive and it's moving more into conventional MMORPG/RTS territory.

      Sega Dreamcast probably had the most innovative titles of any system (a monkey with fucking maracas! bril

    • ...almost like the Borg of the gaming industry.

      Just look at the development houses it has swallowed up, Maxis, Bullfrog, Westwood... and the games that they come out with now (more Sims anyone?).

  • Focus on Handhelds (Score:3, Insightful)

    by lake2112 ( 748837 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:57PM (#9208065)
    This is why all the new innovations are geared towards handheld devices. For over a decade Nintendo has been pushing handheld devices which really did not live up to the technology of the time. Their leadership in the market enabled them to curb innovation. But I view console gaming to be like the Slam Dunk Contest in the NBA. It's all been done, what else is there?
  • Iwata does point out that the gaming market in Japan has been shrinking

    Iwata does point out that the NINTENDO gaming market in Japan has been shrinking

  • It comes down to the Three Gs... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Millennium ( 2451 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:00PM (#9208097)
    ...Guns, Girls, and Graphics.

    This is the formula used (depressingly successfully) by many game companies nowadays. Everything else can be sacrificed by these three.

    GUNS: Actually, violence in general. More violence is good, but quality ("realism", meaning extra gore) can make up for a lack of quantity.

    GIRLS: The more women and the less clothing, the better. Any kind of implied sexuality is better than nothing, however.

    GRAPHICS: Photorealism = good, any other graphics style = bad. This is mostly an extension of Guns and Girls, since "realism" (actually pandering to a perverse fantasy, but your average gamer has a hard time telling the difference) is key to these areas.

    These three factors contribute to what is sometimes called PPLQ, "Perceived Penis Length Quotient". The higher the PPLQ, the better the game will sell, because it is perceived as a Manly Game. Nintendo's problems as of late stem mostly from the fact that it refuses to satisfy PPLQ, under the deluded impression that innovation and gameplay are actually important to the average modern gamer. Thus, we get games like Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles and The Legend of Zelda: the Wind Waker, games doomed before they ever hit shelves because they were not deemed Manly enough.

  • DDR? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by digitalsushi ( 137809 ) * <slashdot@digitalsushi.com> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:01PM (#9208118) Journal
    from the article: "Dance Dance Revolution," which U.S. officials strongly resisted bringing over from Japan, has proven to be a lasting change to gameplay.

    then it doesnt say why they resisted it. And who the officials are.

    • Re:DDR? (Score:2)

      by Mz6 ( 741941 ) *
      I don't ever remember hearing that so called "US Officials" not wanting to bring over DDR. I mean, it has actually done wonders to gaming arcades when it first came out. Now that the market is saturated with them and their counterparts (DJ version, guitar versions) when will it end?

      Besides.. you have to admit it's pretty funny seeing some of your "stereotypical" gamers "dancing".

    • ah, i finally found the reason.

      according to this recent report [http], "... in conclusion demonstrating that children who are on their feet pose the greatest threat to the DHSHomeView FunPack being integrated into most popular video game consoles being marketed in the United States market ... "

  • Doesn't surprise me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dark Paladin ( 116525 ) * <jhummel@john h u m m e l . n et> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:02PM (#9208121) Homepage
    Take a look at a game made by, say, the Gamecube, the Xbox, and a PC. Quick, which one looks the best?

    Now, odds are you'll say "The PC". Which, at $1000 - $2000 for the hardware, that's certainly true.

    For the Gamecube and the Xbox, the systems are pretty well matched. From what I've seen, the Xbox can do lighting better thanks to the shaders, while the Gamecube seems to have better anti-aliasing (take a look at Super Monkey Ball 2).

    Fast forward 18 months when the Xbox 2, PS3, and Gamecube 2 come out, all with chips made by IBM, 2 of which have chips made by ATI. Now which look better?

    Once we reach a point of technical ability, all of the consoles will start to look the same in graphical and processing power. So then it's going to come down to one thing:

    Who has the better games?

    PS2 still has the most, though I imagine most PC developers will continue the trend of "PC/Xbox" hybrids (though with the Xbox 2 it will be curious to see how possible this will still be, though XNA should help with the tranferral).

    Nintendo at least is trying some new things. Using a stylus to "draw" Pac-Man on a screen, or to "shoot" in Metroid. Or using Congo drums for a Donkey Kong platform game (and, of course, the upcoming Donkey Konga itself).

    Will most of these works? Probably not. There's a good chance that most people will think that playing a platform game with drums will suck donkey balls (pun intended), or that drawing on a screen won't be fun. But in an a realm where Final Fantasy XII seems to play like Final Fantasy XI only with a blond in a hoochie skirt (for Pete's sake, woman, put on some tights and have some dignity instead of letting it all hang out like you're going to walk down Prostitute Avenue), and every first person shooter looks the same, it's going to the ones that are different that will pull it out.

    Personally, I'm betting that the Xbox will continue to be big on the FPS and Sports games, PS2 will rock the RPG and "everything else", while Nintendo will grab those "Games you must have or die" kind of things (Nintendo, new Mario, and of course GBA games).

    I'll withhold judgement on Nintendo's innovation until I see sales rise (remember the lesson from SEGA: different doesn't always mean $$$), but if nothing else, you've got to give them credit for at least doing something different than the other guys.
    • I'll withhold judgement on Nintendo's innovation until I see sales rise (remember the lesson from SEGA: different doesn't always mean $$$), but if nothing else, you've got to give them credit for at least doing something different than the other guys.

      Well, Nintendo has learned that lesson several times.. but at least they keep trying. Some of their innovations were just too ahead of their time. The Power-Pad didn't do too well, but 10 years later, the Power-Pad has been re-invented for DDR. On the othe

  • good. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by chachob ( 746500 )
    its great that Nintendo is really trying to do this, because they have been one of the largest victims of this anti-innovation, perfect example being their relentless release of mario-themed games. (i know its practically their mascot, but maybe its time for a new one...)
  • Skate or Die! Die! Die! Die! Die! Skate or Die!

  • Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by astrokid ( 779104 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:04PM (#9208156)
    It's tough for developers to sell a new innovative game because few publishers want to take the risk. It is much easier to take a successful franchise and develop sequel after sequel.

    Rinse, lather, repeat ... ie: All of EA's sport franchises.

  • Too expensive (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ardor ( 673957 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:05PM (#9208169)
    The current crisis in the gaming industry does not surprise me. Today, games are primarily a product, not an entertainment. It costs a hell of a lot of money to develop a state-of-the-art game; this leads to a lack of creativity, since it is cheaper to rely on tried and true gameplay concepts than to innovate. With innovation, there is always the risk of people not accepting it. However, this leads to many similar games, people get used to this similarity, and become even less tolerant to new concepts. At the same time, the technology advances, games become more complex, costs raise etc. I guess somewhere in there the industry lost the concept of joy. A game is .... well, a game! :) A game is supposed to be funny. I think things changed when the CEOs and lead designers in the game companies were no longer creative minds who created several games before (like Sid Meier), but managers and professional designers drilled to create "an economic and reliable video game product". And hey - I'm sick of playing games that feel primarily like a product, and not like a game.
    • I guess somewhere in there the industry lost the concept of joy. A game is .... well, a game! :) A game is supposed to be funny.

      A game should be fun, but not necessarily funny. You can get just as much thrill out of fear or suspense.

  • Pure fud... lazy inovators (Score:3, Interesting)

    by KillerCow ( 213458 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:08PM (#9208205)
    the gaming industry is in the midst of a crisis of innovation

    Two words: online gaming

    If we continue down the same path as we have in the past, people may become tired of gaming

    In economics they call this Diminishing Marginal Utility [investopedia.com]. The more you consume something, the less gain you experience from consuming one more unit of that thing [about.com]. To combat this, marketers need to offer you something novel. I don't know why anyone would think that video-games are imune to this...
  • To be honest, for a big part i would tend to agree with Mr Nintendo. While Half-Life 2 and Doom III do sound promesing, most games are boring and bad rehashes of old concepts; Gets real old real quick.

    However in my experiance it's not all about innovation such as adding camera's and microphone's to games, or inventing new game styles. However Open Ended game play does make a huge difference. (I lovingly call non open ended games 'Walking thru a cave with pretty new paintings on the wall' now.. just running

  • This is a common technique (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mike Hawk ( 687615 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:12PM (#9208258) Journal
    When a company's financial situation is worsening, one tactic is to make it appear that it is the market as a whole that is suffering or shrinking and not the particular company's individual performance. Its a simple play to artificially hold up your company's stock, or at least drag everyone else down with you. You'll find that many American publishers have just announced significant profits for this past fiscal year or for the coming fiscal year while Nintendo posted their first quarterly loss in decades.

    All I have ever said, and have been brutalized repeatedly for on this site, is that the American/Eurpoean markets are different from the Japanese. It is easy to show that the gamers have different tastes, a number of recent slashdot articles have proven that, and that the Japanese market is shrinking overall while the western markets continue to show growth. As soon as NoA starts treating American's as special again (as it did with the significant difference between the NES and FamiCom) they have a chance to recover. If they continue resting on their laurels and giving us the exact same hardware and software as is released Japan, their western market share will continue to shrink until they are totally irrelevent. My prediction all along has been the fragment of the market into one worldwide success and a different second place in Region 1 and 4 from Region 2. If the current trend continues the big winner will still be Sony, with MS and Nintendo ceasing to compete directly and each taking second in different parts of the world. The only question in my mind is will Nintendo be too stubborn to port their software to Playstation or Xbox when the Americans finally boot them out of the hardware business.

    • Re:This is a common technique (Score:4, Insightful)

      by phatsharpie ( 674132 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @05:21PM (#9209097)
      According to your post, shouldn't PlayStation 2 be failing big time in markets outside of Japan? AFAIK, there are no differences between the Japanese PS2 and the American one - other than what is necessary (PAL versus NTSC and the like).

      Also, I believe the Xbox is the same in the US and world markets.

      The articles your referred to regarding differences in Japanese, European, and American markets talked about the gaming titles themselves (i.e. what genre of games each market like), and didn't really refer to the gaming hardware themselves.

      In fact, if Nintendo manufactured different hardware for each of its regional markets, they probably can't take advantage of lowering manufacturing costs in terms of scale, so it would probably lead to a higher retail price and damage its market share.

      P.S. the NES and the FamiCom had very little differences outside of appearance. It was purely a marketing decision to make them "different".

      -B

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:14PM (#9208279)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Bottomless Pits... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Reason58 ( 775044 )
    I think Penny Arcade hit the nail on the head in their article on the recently launched City of Heroes, when they said the game had plenty of depth, but lacked width. That is the increasing problem with electronic games; they may be complex, but they lack any real sense of immersion. Goto area A, fight monster B, retrieve item C, rinse and repeat. It's the same formula we've seen a million times before, only with a shinnier wrapper and new kung fu grip.
  • It's like this: Developer platforms are the problem. Much innovation was created by reinventing the tools everytime they made a game. Its alot like the loss of innovation that occurred in typing or writing many versions of a page of a book verses typing and deleting on a computer. The process of doing something over and over again allows your brain to rework the problem and come up with better solutions.

  • In the Saturn and dreamcast ereas we saw some of the most innovative and fun games ever -- Sega had to put out fun games they couldn't compete on anything else. But then Sega got crushed by nintendo and sony who were pumping out the same games we played last year but with better graphics and more advertising. To be honest I really haven't been all that interested in games since the dreamcast died and I am not surprised the industry is hurting now. I don't care what your advertising budget is or how many pol

  • Nintendo DS innovative? (Score:4, Funny)

    by obsid1an ( 665888 ) <obsidian@@@mchsi...com> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:30PM (#9208464)
    Really? [shackspace.com]
  • the industry has been pumping out shit games en masse. Nintendo itself isn't doing anything that different either. I hope they can play by their own rules.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • History is Repeating (Score:3, Interesting)

    by VonGuard ( 39260 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:40PM (#9208659) Homepage Journal
    It's almost repeating to an exact year.

    1984: Game industry is bloated with too many consoles with too many accessories created ahead of demand (Intellivision2), the same games being re-branded and resold, too many boring tie-ins (E.T.), and a saturated market that was fed up with it.

    Result:
    Industry colapses.

    1994: Game industry is bloated with too many consoles with too many accessories created ahead of demand (Sega Genesis, 32X, CD, Saturn, Game Gear), the same games being re-branded and resold, too many boring tie-ins (Captain Novolin), and a saturated market that was fed up with it.

    Result:
    Industry implodes.

    2004: Game industry is blaoted with too many consoles with too many accessories (PS2 + HD + Network card + microphone + eyetoy = Jesus Fucking Christ!), the same games being re-branded and resold, too many boring tie-ins (Fight Club, the game?), an a saturated market that is getting poorer every day thanks to these wonderful tough times.

    Result:
    Who knows, but you can bet your buttons that the Nokia nGage is going to die.

    Well, maybe it won't happen till next year. But sooner would make such wonderful symetry.

  • Hrmm, you know.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ShadowRage ( 678728 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @04:49PM (#9208759) Homepage Journal
    I was just thinking about this the other day.
    how, since SEGA (who have been the leg-up for innovation in the gaming industry) stopped making consoles, we havent seen any attempts towards any next-generation systems, only little plastic boxes that hook up to the TV.

    Now the DS is coming out, which may start a future of systems that can easily replace the systems that hook to TV's (though I dont see it happening)
    but it throws the handheld market out of the repetitive 2d-only market.
    Now there's the PSP, but I honestly wouldnt want to buy that, it's neither innovation, or really something that can be called handheld or portable.
    all it is is a PSone with games that are incompatible with all of sony's other products.
    the only selling point is the mp3 player, which will attract the sony fanboys right away. but you can just buy a psone with a monitor, and you got a fairly portable system, with pre-existing games.

    The DS will have its own games, yes, but they'll have their own unique features that take advantage of the DS' power, people may make fun of the DS, but it's a system with a hell lot more innovation and potential than anyone has done to date, and is something nintendo hasnt done before to date.

    but with all that, we need more innovation, and the only real innovator left is nintendo, really.. Sony just copies the innovation and adds a tacky feature here or there to make it sell like hotcakes. and Microsoft.. well we dont need to go there. Sega and nintendo used to be the main innovators back in the 90's and now that Sega no longer makes systems, it's really up to nintendo now to do it, or else we're facing a dark age for console gaming. Because if Sony and Microsoft get their way with the industry, console gaming will mostly die for the most part. and any innovations will be minor details, nothing new, since they wouldnt have competition except each other, and they leech, so nothing would really come up.
    I say, go nintendo.
  • but honestly I think that there hasn't been a fresh new game type in a really long time.

    I really think the last truly innovative game type may have been the Battlezone remake of 6 or 7 years ago. That was an evolution of game types.

    Since then, all we've gotten are refinements on the typical, RTS, SPRPG, MMRPG, FPS Shooter, and F/TP Adventure games.

  • If only they took a chance. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by solarwolf ( 755899 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @05:10PM (#9208969)
    I like to play games on my PS2. Being a girl, I really don't like the "popular" categories of Guns, Driving, and Sports. I'm not into real violence but I like a challenge.

    It takes work, but it is possible to find creative games from companies willing to put out something somewhat unique. Kya: Dark Lineage is a good game from Eden with fighting, puzzles, and stealth. Sly Cooper (Sucker Punch games) is an awesome looking game also involving some intelligence to get through.

    I am disappointed in most of the sequels they are putting out now. The original Jak & Daxter was a fun game, but Jak 2 and the rumors about Jak 3 follow the formula of guns and hijaking vehicles. Yawn. Sure it's safer to crank out a tried and true character sequel, but at least put some thought into what the gamer wants to see. However I will not expect it to change, and I'll keep up my feeble search of quality games.

  • The sky is falling... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sterno ( 16320 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @05:39PM (#9209267) Homepage
    Quoting from the article:
    While there were some very promising titles on display at this year's show, there were very few games that were truly unique. Most, instead, rehashed familiar genres, tossing in a few new elements or simply polishing gameplay.

    If you take out the "simply polishing gameplay" phrase, this statement would apply to movies as well. Most movies are pretty much just rehashes of existing concepts, with different actors and special effects. Yet, the movie industry thrives and makes billions of dollars.

    So my sense is that the game industry isn't going anywhere, it's just maturing as a creative medium. That means that, over time, you're going to see less innovation, just like you do in most creative media. Doesn't mean people are going to stop buying.

  • Of course Japan's market is shrinking... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rayonic ( 462789 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @06:06PM (#9209456) Homepage Journal
    ...because Japan's population has been shrinking. And getting older, on average. And that economic slump isn't helping things.

    Until someone comes out with some real polling results, you can't say that the Japanese populace is becoming "disenchanted" with video gaming. There could be many other factors at work.

  • Again, Ender's Game (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ignipotentis ( 461249 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @06:59PM (#9209894)
    I again find myself referenceing Uncle Orson. What about "The Game?" This is the type of game I would love to play. The game adjusts itself depending on how you react and it is different for everyone!

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