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First Person Shooters (Games)

Quake IV Confirmed For QuakeCon 119

Posted by Zonk
from the q4arena-expected-to-0wn dept.
Gamespot has the word that Quake IV will get some face time at QuakeCon this year. id CEO Hollenshead released the information at the Xbox Doom 3 launch event. From the article: "Over the past few years, PC game sales have either declined a little bit or stayed relatively flat, while console game sales have seen mostly double-digit growth. I don't know if we'll be releasing multiple SKUs at the same time, but as for PS3 and Xbox 2 and so on, yes, we will continue our development effort on the consoles."
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Quake IV Confirmed For QuakeCon

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  • PC game decline (Score:4, Insightful)

    by OAB_X (818333) on Monday April 04, 2005 @08:26PM (#12139561)
    A lot of the decline in PC games is the lack of marketing, lack of (good) original titles, and high initial cost to get started with it.

    Lots of console games are being released on the PC, and a lot of PC games released on the consoles. Consoles attract more money to developers because there is a larger installed userbase, PC Gamers need to be a bit more tech savvy then their console brothers and sisters to get games to work, and the keyboard/mouse configuration is less intuitive then a gamepad.

    Having said that, I like PC Gaming MUCH better.
    • Re:PC game decline (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Black Pete (222858) on Monday April 04, 2005 @09:05PM (#12139830)
      PC Gamers need to be a bit more tech savvy then their console brothers and sisters to get games to work

      I can't agree with this enough. When you want to play a game on the console, all you have to do is walk into a store, buy the game, unwrap the box, pop a bottle of beer, pop the disc into the console, and you're playing.

      This is not the case with the PC. You've got to have the latest drivers, make sure the drive is clutter-free, no background apps hogging all CPU resources, etc. before you finally pop in the disc to begin "installing" the game (and experience all the joys that goes with installing any game - CD shuffling, failed installs, etc.) I'm not even going to touch the Steam issue...

      Why can't PC games just allow you to pop in a disc and begin playing? These days pretty much everyone should have a high-speed CD reader at the very least, if not a DVD drive, so the "games run faster on the HDD" excuse isn't a valid reason these days.

      I consider myself a hardcore gamer -- heck I write game software for a living -- but these days I find myself buying console games specifically to avoid the hassles of PC gaming installation issues. After a long day of staring at code on a monitor, the last thing I want to do is tinker around with computers when I get home.

      • Re:PC game decline (Score:4, Insightful)

        by nc_yori (870325) on Monday April 04, 2005 @09:46PM (#12140053)

        As a programmer you should know that CD/DVD read speeds can't even compare to HDD read speeds. Playing from disc also hurts the issue of disk swapping ("Please insert Cinematics Disc.....Please insert Play Disc).

        It's true that installation can be a pain in the ass, but playing from HDD means that I can bust out an ISO and put away my easy-to-break CD/DVD media in a safe place.

        That also begs the issue of additional content. It's no trouble to download or purchase new content for games, or even to make my own. What if I want the new levels for Halo 2 but don't want to shell out for Xbox Live? I'm SOL.

        I think this just proves that PC vs. console is an issue of preference. IMHO, the decline of PC gaming comes from lack of interest from publishers. How much longer does the PC port of GTA:San Andreas take to come out than the PS2 version? Will Devil May Cry 3 ever be on PC? What about Metal Gear Solid 3?

        • Re:PC game decline (Score:2, Informative)

          by pnice (753704)
          That also begs the issue of additional content. It's no trouble to download or purchase new content for games, or even to make my own. What if I want the new levels for Halo 2 but don't want to shell out for Xbox Live? I'm SOL.

          For the most part your statement has been true with the Xbox and Xbox Live. As far as Halo 2 goes, you will be able to purchase all of the new multiplayer maps along with a documentary, a cinematic extra, all of the updates released so far, and some unannounced extras for around $
        • I'm not sure if it's intentional, but developers seem to be missing the point of WHY PC game sales is slumping.

          I haven't seen any reports, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that HL sold more than HL2.

          PC Games will often silently avoid products that they don't like. Overly restrictive copy protection? I'll pass. Poor performance/stability? I'll pass. Shitty gameplay? I'll pass.

          I didn't buy HL2. I didn't buy Daikatana. I didn't buy Quake 3. All for the aforementioned reasons.

          A market-droid may see someone who
      • Re:PC game decline (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Satertek (708058) <brian@satertek.info> on Monday April 04, 2005 @10:08PM (#12140184) Homepage
        Why can't PC games just allow you to pop in a disc and begin playing?

        LiveCD Linux distros have really brought out the possiblility for this on the PC. Already there are LiveCDs with games like America's Army and the Return to Castle Wolfenstein expansion. Game saves could be stored on USB sticks or over the internet.

        All it would take is one big company to step in a try it. And since PC games need to switch to the DVD format anyway, there would be plenty of space for the LiveCD Linux version, in addition to the Windows version of the game.

        After looking around for any sign of life in this area, I couldn't find any. I'll guess that the game patches proved too much an inconvience, as the creator would have to remake the LiveCD after every update. It still looks like a promising area that should be looked into, however.

        Linux aside, this should be an option in Windows as well. I personally would not use it, as I like being able to play games without scrambling for CDs, but it would be nice for games played infrequently.
        • maybe it could be setup so the game maker has a program to download that'll make an ISO from the game data with the latest patches/mods
        • Microsoft is working on this already, /. had it, search for "tray and play."
        • remember self-booting floppy games from pc years and years back? they sucked even then.

          rebooting just to play a game? just forget about the game then, nobodys going to play it.
        • The mod community would be cut off at the knee's without actually having having the game installed straight to the system.

          IMO, which I may be flamed for, the mod community is a large reason why PC games are even around much. Yeah sure some genres aren't console friendly (RTS games), but how many more copies of, say the KOTOR games, sold for Xbox than PC? Or any number of AAA titles sold on any console and PC.

          For every Half-Life 2 type title on PC there is 5 that create as big a bruhaha in console gaming

        • I'll guess that the game patches proved too much an inconvience, as the creator would have to remake the LiveCD after every update.

          There are several ways to handle this. Consider the way Debian handles building CDs, it grabs a bunch of chunks and then stiches it together into a CD. Just update the chunks that need it and burn a new CD. No need to re-grab an entire ISO for an extra semicolon in a config file.

          Even simpler is having some drivers to grab patches off the HD or even a USB stick as it's bootin

      • Re:PC game decline (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Elranzer (851411)
        heck I write game software for a living -- but these days I find myself buying console games specifically to avoid the hassles of PC gaming installation issues.

        How's Electronic Arts been hiring these days?

        (Seriously, though, I agree with you. And I'd like to take it a step further.... these issues of swapping Play and Cinema discs, multi-disc installs, etc, would all be moot if the PC game companies would just switch to DVD-ROM. I sometimes wonder why I even have a DVD-ROM in my computer. Hasn't DVD t
        • I suppose CD-ROM drives are the lowest common denominator. Everyone with a modern PC can read CD-ROMs, but they can't quite guarantee that everyone can read DVDs.

          In the UK I think we have a few more games that are DVD only however, presumably becuase we're a smaller market and they only want to release one version.
          • Actually I think DVD drive uptake in the US is rather slow, Europe is seeing many DVD-only releases while US versions tend to be CD-only. HL2 for example (if we ignore the collector's edition) was released on CDs in the US and on one DVD in Europe. Perimeter is only available on DVD here. Of course you won't see EA release DVD versions of their games, they're greedy and want those people with only CD drives as well.
          • Perhaps. but the parent of your post has a BIG point... The "lowest common denominator" is NOT going to run HL2 or Doom3. That $299 e-machines won't have the graphical cajones. Neither will that top-of-the-line gaming system from four years ago. It takes a modern system to be able to run modern FPS. Modern systems have DVD drives. Period.
      • I picked up my first console game in years this week. God of War for PS2.

        I forgot how nice it is to chill on a couch and game...
      • I find it hard to believe you write game software for a living and have to ask: "Why can't PC games just allow you to pop in a disc and begin playing?" What do you think that would do? Sure, avoid the installation up front...but what else? It doesn't magically make it a console. It still has to support all kinds of different graphic cards/hardware. It still is going to require all of the tweaks it would have than it was on your HD. The big difference is now it will load slower (yes, it is still faster
    • If commercial PC gaming tanks, non-commercial efforts will receive at least some of that talent.

      One thing that will never be true about a console (because as I see it, it is the differentiating charicteristic) is that you can easily develop for it. Console development always involves buying a special box, and a special this, and a special that, and so on. Furthermore, the mod programmers won't be able to cross over without gargantuan support from various companies; and in that case, it really depends on wh
      • Re:PC game decline (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "If commercial PC gaming tanks, non-commercial efforts will receive at least some of that talent."

        Hate to rain on your parade, but this is just plain wrong. People who currently develop commercial PC games are salaried professionals. If PC gaming vanishes, they won't start doing what they did before for money for free (or significantly less money). Rather, they'll just follow their employer's line and start developing for consoles. The majority of games developers aren't actually religious enough about the
    • Are you kidding???? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by SvnLyrBrto (62138) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @03:07AM (#12141645)
      > and the keyboard/mouse configuration is less intuitive
      > then a gamepad.

      If you're NOT kidding, you're completely out of your mind.

      Back in college, I had a group of non-CS-major friends who thought they were hot stuff on Goldeneye, for the N64. As I understand it, Goldeneye is STILL considered just about the best console FPS, and one of the best N64 games, ever released. I thought it was rather low-quality and pedestrian, myself. But whatever. A couple of them could even beat the game on "00 Level". Oooooo...

      Eventually, I finally got them to come into the lab at night, and set up a Quake 2 deathmatch. For starters, only being able to play a game with just four people at a time, and being confined to one corner of the screen is lame. But I digress. I spanked them... even the "I finished Goldeneye on 00 Level" guys. And I don't just mean I won. I totally dominated. And on real FPSs, I was never really even that GOOD.... strictly average. But playing with those POS console controllers, and their associated crutches (cheats like auto-aim, for example) instilled so many bad habits into them that even the best were all but helpless against just an average "mouse and keyboard" player.

      It'll be interesting to see if the xBox2 and PS3 versions of Q4 will be able to play on-line against the real version. Specifically, it'd be interesting to see the deathmatch kill stats between them. I'd bet good money that said stats would bear me out.

      cya,
      john
      • I never said that it was not superior (which it is) but that it was less intuitive. You fumble around for a long time with the mouse/keyboard getting used to things like "mouse look" and all that, whereas with Goldeneye, you could pick up and play it with the "1.1 Honey" config very easily, joystick move, no mouse look, z is fire. Granted, goldeneye never really needed to have looking (you could switch to 1.2 solitaire if you wanted that, which I did once I discovered it).
      • by JonathanBoyd (644397) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @06:47AM (#12142270) Homepage
        If you're NOT kidding, you're completely out of your mind. [snip] I spanked them... even the "I finished Goldeneye on 00 Level" guys. And I don't just mean I won. I totally dominated. And on real FPSs, I was never really even that GOOD.... strictly average. But playing with those POS console controllers, and their associated crutches (cheats like auto-aim, for example) instilled so many bad habits into them that even the best were all but helpless against just an average "mouse and keyboard" player.

        Surely this proves the point? If a mouse and keyboard was more intuitive and easier to pick up than a controller, then they wouldn't have had too many problems playing against you.

        Oh and mocking beating the game on 00 agent mode without having done it yourself doesn't add any credibility to your claims. Same goes for your lack of knowledge that auto-aim can be turned off for multiplayer.

      • And what good was that? Did those guys switched over to PC gaming? Or the moral of the story is that you kicked some ass at quake 2?

        The control pad is more comfortable, anyway.

        Also, Quake 2 and GoldenEye are very different games. In goldeneye you cannot jump, for god sake! This is just as stupid as being good at soccer, challenge the basketball team to a match, and then boasting about how the stupid basketball team was not good at soccer, because they are so used to use hands to pass the ball, and cheats
      • I can't comment from first hand experience but the Dreamcast version of Quake 3: Arena was playable online against the PC version. And well... the console kiddies got their asses handed to them. Thankfully the Dreamcast and the Quake 3 port both support a keyboard and mouse so people could use them instead.

        As for Quake 4 on the Xbox being playable again PC players? Not unless MS changes how they handle live, which it appears that they are in DX 10, but we'll have to see what they do. The PS3 version o

      • Goldeneye had a well designed control system, on an unusually suitable controller. But, the main thing that made Goldeneye so good was that the game was not designed to be a mouse+kb game with some pad controls hacked on. Instead, what they did was design Goldeneye with the controller in mind. Mouse and keyboard would have sucked for Goldeneye, even worse than the same N64 controller did for QuakeII.

        People say different games work better on different input hardware all the time, but then follow on with so

        • This can't be stated enough - the things that made Halo II survive on the console were that they were really willing to compromise on the gameplay in order to fit the controls. You don't notice on the TV screen, but compared to every PC game these titles are slow as molasses. To me, when you combine the clumsy gamepad, the blurry display, the tiny gameplay, and the slow speed, Goldeneye always felt like playing an FPS while suffering from a degenerative neurological condition.

          The mouse & keyboard vs.
    • PC games development as a high initial cost to get started with??!?!? Do you have any idea how much ps2 or xbox devkits cost? And that's only if you are approved by sony or microsoft to actually develop games for their platforms.
  • Mouse and keyboards (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mfterman (2719)
    My own feeling is that it's only a matter of time before consoles start getting USB mice and keyboards as standard or at least common equipment for consoles. Consoles are slowly but surely evolving into low end dedicated gaming PCs. When that happens, I tend to expect that there will be an even sharper decline in PC games produced, though for moddable games, I expect PCs to be around as the modding development platform of choice.
    • from what i've heard of ps3 and xbox2, which granted isn't very much at all, 'low end' is not a very accurate description in any sense of the phrase
      • if the chips being used in all three of them (power5) and the fact Nintendo is making 802.11g standard on their next system is any indication low end doesnt even come close.
        • by Anonymous Coward
          I still love RC Pro Am.
          They're all low-end if they can't play that, in my book.
    • by imitier (674794)
      As someone who until recently did all his FPS gaming on consoles, I have to say I prefer a dual-analog controller over a mouse and keyboard. Having recently built a PC that can play games like Half-Life 2 and Unreal Tournamentl 2004, I'm catching up on a backlog of PC gaming, but I find the mouse and keyboard combo to feel somewhat unnatural, and a lot less immersive, than a console-style dual analog controller (PS2 or XBox, take your pick.) I understand that the mouse and keyboard is probably faster and
      • by kafka47 (801886) on Monday April 04, 2005 @09:27PM (#12139946) Homepage
        As someone who until recently did all his FPS gaming on consoles, I have to say I prefer a dual-analog controller over a mouse and keyboard.

        I would invite you to bring your favourite FPS game and your dual-analog controller online... and play against us PC-based mouse users anytime. :-)

        I wouldn't be so sure that everyone playing FPS on consoles is in a rush to get a mouse and keyboard set up

        They will if it means not losing anymore. :-)
        /Kafka
        • by Anonymous Coward
          Who the hell modded this insightful? It completely misses the point.

          By and large, people playing console fpses on dual-analogue controllers do NOT play against people playing fpses on a mouse and keyboard. It doesn't matter that a PC player would beat you... you're never going to play him. There's a big imbalance in the PC gaming market; for years now, the fps scene has been about who has the best system, display, mouse etc. A mediocre player can improve their performance by upgrading their system. In the
          • I agree you've got to compare like with like, but having tried both, I just feel like my shoelaces are tied together on a console controller, so even in a single player offline game, it just doesn't offer the same intuitive and fluid moves you can perform with a mouse/KB.

            As a PC gamer - I would welcome a level playing field, and this is perhaps the one thing I would envy from the console world. I have to say, I don't think the field is as bumpy as it used to be though: in the Quake2 days, kit made a massiv
            • Take a look at UT2k4 - that game is blazingly fast. And yes, having a sweet framerate won't get you far in the vehicle-oriented modes - a tank is still a tank... but in DM or CTF you'll still find the same Quake-style gameplay.

              And I agree - playing an FPS on a console is incredibly frustrating. It feels like you're trying to aim while wearing boxing gloves.'

              Still, its nice when games are well-designed for console gameplay. Halo takes it nice and slow, Goldeneye kept the maps flat - OutTrigger (a fave o
        • Actually you might be surprised. I've played both extensivly and once you get the hang of it and what not I think for headshots on a lot of games are easier on consoles. It's much easier to have the crosshair at the right height and whatnot. There is also a thing called the smartjoy-frag or what not that lets you play Xbox with a mouse, it hasn't seemed to help people I know enough.
          • That would be because it still has to translate those smooth moves you're attempting for a game that's expecting analog or pad style input.

            And frankly, on PC we don't generally have the huge allowances (and the crutch) that's usually present in the form of autoaiming on console FPS titles.

            So, suck it.
        • How did you manage to quote two parts of the parent post while missing this part?

          I understand that the mouse and keyboard is probably faster and more accurate, especially if that's what you're used to, but even with that in mind, it just doesn't feel good to me. I spend all day working with a mouse and keyboard -- I don't want to use the same equipment to play games.

          What does your comment have to do with what you responded to? It is just some pointless and misguided "FPS games should only be played with m

      • by snuf23 (182335)
        It's what you are used to. If you started on a dual analog with FPS games you are "wired" for that. Your natural responses are in tune to that controller.
        For me playing an FPS on a console, feels like I have mittens on or something. It is awkward and imprecise. This is however, because it's the controller I am used to.
        They both have their merits. Consider that the mouse is a much more accurate aiming device, however the controller is much better for setting on the couch type of gaming. We won't see mice and
        • No, so sorry, but it's not as simple as what one is used to. I do tend to agree with you at lower skill levels but please consider that controllers are never used by any competitive FPS'ers.

          Fatality and the like are strictly mousemen.
          • You mean to say that in Halo 2 tournaments all of the top players whip out their mice?
            As far as I've seen, the mice/keyboard adapters for consoles don't work all that well since the console games aiming is programmed differently for use with a controller (i.e. the tap to auto aim).
            Sure in PC games no one is using a controller, I wouldn't argue that.
            • Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was, of course, only referring to LAN parties. Personally, I've never been to a console tournament.

              As well, I think you exactly nailed it. I absolutely agree with you in that controllers seem more far more effective and common in regards to consoles than a mouse keyboard combination.
            • And in bakeoffs they use ovens. Meanwhile us real FPS gamers will stick to our high precision input devices and let you guys have the game aim for you(We call that cheating, btw, but when its impossible to have any precision anyways..)

              Joysticks are great for simple games. Playing tetris with a keyboard is a pain, even worse is playing a fighter or even a side scroller. But playing a FPS game with a joystick leads to very impercise aiming (Compare any controller to an mx1000 or razer diamondback) and bulky
              • by Anonymous Coward
                Yay, another fine example of the wonderful, arrogant posts we get about "real gaming". I love the way that people who consider themselves "hardcore" gamers need to go on about their skill levels constantly and put down those who play other games. It seems to me that there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually constitutes "skill" here.

                Simply put, "skill" in a game is the ability to perform well within the constraints of the game. Is Kasparov a poor chess player because he can only move the Bisho
                • While I really shouldn't flame - I can think of a good counterargument:

                  While its nice that you enjoy and excel at wheelchair racing in the paralympics... why not stand up and race for real on your feet, since you are physically capable of it? Why resign yourself to a slower, clumsier device?

                  I can appreciate the appeal of console games - the party atmosphere, the "dive and and play" ease - except when it comes to FPS games, where I'm just frustrated on the console. Console FPS games make me feel like a c
              • Ugh, that reminds me of the time I attempted to play Diablo on a Playstation. I'd beaten the game dozens of times on the PC in Hell difficulty, but when I tried to play it on the Playstation with a controller... I died on the first level. Some things are just meant to be played with a mouse and keyboard.
                • IMHO the PSone version of Diablo is "harder" than the PC version. It controls fine though, enable the "combo button" and "relative" movement. You also have to remember to keep the game speed at "normal" (PSone Diablo has a "Fast" speed setting, and boy is it fast)
                • Actually, I found it quite fun on the console, but only because it's wonderful to play the game with 2 players on the same screen. Great party atmosphere - gives a nice Gauntlet flavour to the game.
        • by Rayonic (462789)
          You could take a typical modern console gamepad, and replace the rightmost analog stick with a small-ish trackball.

          Thus the trackball would be for mouselook, the left analog stick would be for movement (like WASD, but more precise), and the shoulder buttons could be for fire, jump, etc.
          • It still wouldn't work. Try bunnyhopping with a controller, regardless of the configuration. You have to bend your fingers into extremely irregular configurations, whereas with a PC, all you need to do is press a few keyboard buttons and move your mouse in a rythmic pattern.
            • Huh? Why wouldn't the jump button be mapped to a shoulder button? Just keep tapping that and move the trackball in a rhythmic pattern. Picture a Playstation controller, which has four shoulder buttons that your fingers are natually over anyways. The face buttons and D-pad would not be used for quick-reaction actions such as fire, jump, crouch, etc.

              Beyond FPSes, a nice trackball would make moving a pointer around more bearable. Good for point-and-click adventures and RTS games.
          • Are trackballs more precise than analog sticks?

            I have tried them, and they mostly suck.
            • I have no problem using a thumb-mounted trackball for FPS games. Depends on the model, I suppose.

              The idea of a trackball in place of an analog stick is that movement can be fast but still accurate. 180 degree turns in a split second, as opposed to 4 seconds with a typical analog stick setup.

              The only alternative is integrating a mouse into the controller, but then you'd have to rub it around on a flat surface. Sounds pretty silly to me.
        • I disagree. I resisted mouseaiming for a long time (stalwartly playing AvsP with a keyboard), but am now a hard-core FPSer (in preference, not skill - I still suck). I got into Unreal Tournament and Goldeneye at about the same time, and quickly decided which one I preferred.
      • I'm sort of in the same boat. I can't stand WASD. I use a Dual Shock for movement and the mouse for aiming, it works well for me in the PSone/PS2 games that I have that support it.
      • You shouldn't be throwing words like "Immersive" and "Dual Shock" around together in sentences like that. Sony might get upset [slashdot.org].
      • " As someone who until recently did all his FPS gaming on consoles, I have to say I prefer a dual-analog controller over a mouse and keyboard."

        You do realize that your console FPS is taking up some of the slack your joystick introduces by doing a little auto aiming for you, right?
      • are you using the WASD keys or the arrow keys?
        make sure to use WASD, it improves comfortability, but you're right, it still doesn't match the comfort of console-style controller.

        also, I believe that logitech makes some controllers for the PC.
        yup, they sure do. [logitech.com]

  • Quake IV... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Geraden (15689) on Monday April 04, 2005 @09:06PM (#12139835) Homepage
    but still no Duke Nukem Forever.
    • True. We need a new Duke Nukem version for PC soon. I remember playing the old version on my uncle's PC, I loved it. Classic. Although I'm looking forward for QIV to come out because I'm sick and tired of playing Q3 for 4 years, I need a new game.
  • well good itll be for consoles too :D i hope the console versions can play online against the PC versions ^_^
  • More Space Marines (Score:3, Insightful)

    by superpulpsicle (533373) on Monday April 04, 2005 @10:27PM (#12140296)
    When Doom 2 disappeared, Quake filled the space marine void for the gaming industry. If someone made the game less dark, literally Quake 1, 2, 3 could have been Doom 3, 4, 5.

    This will be the first time Doom III and Quake IV reach a prime more or less together. Some hardcore gamers might dispute, but besides the monsters and the weapons... the backdrop is way similar.

    • by edwdig (47888) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @01:01AM (#12141082)
      Quake 1 felt totally different than Doom. Quake's atmosphere felt medieval. Replace the shotgun with a crossbow and you could've released Quake as a sequel to Heretic.

      Quake 2 I can't really comment on. To me it felt totally different than Quake 1, and never managed to hold my interest past level 2 or so.
  • If Doom was any indication of the visuals going into Q4, I'm anticipating an awesome game. I, for one, have gotten more entertainment from Id and John Carmack than from any other company or person. As far as I'm concerned, Id rocks like no other. Thanks guys. Please, keep up the good work.

    Oh, and by the way, consoles are for kids!
    • If Doom was any indication of the visuals going into Q4, I'm anticipating an awesome game.

      If Doom was any indication of the gameplay going into Q4, I'm anticipating a terrible game.
      • Where the hell does all the "Doom 3 sucks" stuff actually come from? So far as I could see, Doom 3 delivered exactly what was promised. It was a fairly long, deeply atmospheric first person shooter, with ground-breaking technology. It delivered this very well. It never set out to be another Farcry or Half-Life 2. Sure, it had some flaws, such as a lack of variety in the later stages, but it's still a hell of an impressive achievement when put alongside ID's earlier games.
        • At least to me, Doom 3 felt like a prettified Doom 2 with all the lights turned off. Plus, nobody liked the whole "choose between a flashlight or your gun" mechanic, to the extent that mods exist to change just that.
          • When I first played Doom 3 the flashlight thing bugged me to. But if you keep at it and stick with it you soon realize just how awesome that little feature is. Having to switch between gun and light was not put in just as an annoyance/difficulty. That's how the game was designed to be played, and it *rocks* like that.

            The thing is, id tried something different, and challenged people in a new way with that feature. But unfortunately, with most lame-brained lazy people rather than accept the challenge the

        • Someone can 'deliver all they promised' in a game, but that doesn't make it good. So as long as it never sets out to be a decent game it can't be seen for what it is? That's rediculous.
      • different game, different play ...

        There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist, except an old optimist. ~ Mark Twain
  • Did you notice that he talked about showing the multiplayer component of Q4?

    This wording would seem to imply that it also has a single player component, or am I reading too much into it?

    • Re:Multiplayer? (Score:2, Informative)

      by cyxxon (773198)

      Ahm, your wording now seems to imply that you do not know that Quake IV is a sequel to Quake 2, not Quake III Arena, meaning its focus is on a single player campaign with the theme and setting from Quake 2 (Stroggos).

      Somewhere some Raven dude said they would include a multiplayer mode that tried to recapture Q3As feeling - haven't heard more on that though lately.

      • Re:Multiplayer? (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Can't seem to find the URL at the moment, but I've certainly heard that Quake 4 is a single-player oriented sequel to Quake 2. I think there was originally talk of Quake 3 style multiplayer, but this vanished around the time that more details of the Doom 3 engine (such as minimum specifications and network model) because apparent. From what I've heard, the Doom 3 netcode just doesn't scale all that well above four players. You can do it - it just won't behave nicely.

        Basically, I wouldn't get your hopes up
      • "Somewhere some Raven dude said they would include a multiplayer mode that tried to recapture Q3As feeling - haven't heard more on that though lately.

        The last I heard of the MP part of Quake 4 is that it would not contain the limit that is imposed on D3 (8 players max), but it will be going back to higher playercounts. Also, the maps would show that the D3-engine is not only limited to indoors dark maps.

        Also, vehicles(gametypes) were to be included.

        Really looking forward to Q4, as Doom 3's multiplayer p

      • I hope not - Q2's DM had a specific character to it that Q3's lacked. The huge maps, the total lack of weapon balance, the love for bizarre trains and crushers - you didn't see this in Quake 3. The lack of weapon balance meant that the maps could have more intricate layouts - you can stay in the middle where the midrange weapons are, or go running off to hunt down the big toys.

        Come on - who here didn't play The Edge and Tokay's Towers to death? I've seen those maps ported to other games, and none of th
  • PC Sales (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Taulin (569009) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @09:17AM (#12142838) Homepage Journal
    I still remember the days when Nintendo games first started being rented out in video stores. PC Games were incredibly lacking at the time, and a friend casually asked a video store clerk when they will start renting out PC Games? They said they wouldn't because the market is much smaller. Even though PC Games grew incredibly over the next 20 years, the market in terms of number of games and originality has always been smaller than consoles. Hastings tried renting out PC games in the mid-90s, but stopped from either lack of rentals, or probably the hassle of people complaining they couldn't get the game running on their system (or piracy since CD burners just came out). In the end, I think 'the market' has a hard time looking at PCs as a game venue because of how retail outlets treat them.
  • About PC gaming... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AzraelKans (697974) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @12:47PM (#12144822) Homepage
    PC gaming quite simply can not die And never will. Its impossible for a small independent company to release a game in any other platform and its more technologically advanced that any console in the market (and will always be since is upgradeable) MS mentioned in their keynote the PC will always a great lab for gaming and gameplay (and for once they are right).

    Its expensive for developers to release boxed games for Pc's thats true. But is not as much if they get rid of the box and provide it as downloadable content. Im not sure how efficient that method is. But it certainly is the less expensive choice for any developer (no royalties to pay, no publishing, no international/national orders shipping and handling, nothing! all they need is a pc port of their game , a cc handler and a download source, thats it) another cool detail is that since pc gaming is less populated it could actually be considered a "niche" of sorts.

    The only actual problem with pc gaming I see now, is how video card manufacturers are basically self destroying a part of the market, most probably they are aware than their newer card prices are unreachable for almost any pc enthusiast. Yet, they try to set them as the industry "standard" news flash: you can only call it an standard if the majority of the population prefers it over alternatives. (I mean seriously why cant new games WORK with an ati 9200 ? or geforce mx,5200 cards? those are actually affordable cards and to my knowledge they are still available in a good ammount of pcs)

    • PC gaming can die if publishers abandon the PC gaming market. The high costs of PC gaming and the general frustration with driver setup and whatnot. Then you have super expensive video cards from Nvidia and ATI which are releasedevery year. It is definitely not a very attractive market to develop for as it once was during the Playstation 1 era. Since you're catering to the the richest niche or tech savvy PC gamers who will pirate your game instead of pay for it since they blew all their money on the lat
    • On the other hand, the trend in PC gaming nowadays is towards high budget, large production/development teams & heavily art focussed endeavours. These publishers & developers tend to have large resources at their disposal anyway, so distribution costs don't pose a great obstacle.

      Independent PC games, on the other, will be subsumed by the wave of commercial products (particularly due to marketing budgets), and tend to be laid by the wayside of consumer interest. The frequent technology advances al

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