Playing a First-Person Shooter Using Real Guns 225
Blake writes "A group called Waterloo Labs rigged up a few accelerometers to a large wall and projected a first-person shooter onto it. Using some math, they can triangulate the position of impacts on the wall, so naturally they found someone with a gun and bought a large case of ammunition. Even cooler, this group usually posts a 'how we did it' video a few weeks after a project's debut, including source code."
Does the wall... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Does the wall... (Score:5, Funny)
more importantly, is there a respawn location available?
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Guns? (Score:5, Funny)
Real guns or not, iddqd and idkfa is all i need baby.
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fuck it, go all the way. idspispopd
Source code (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:Source code (Score:4, Insightful)
Sadly... (Score:4, Insightful)
On a brighter note it was still a pretty cool idea.
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Re:Sadly... (Score:5, Funny)
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I wish someone would prove it using them as the display...
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Actually, this will make the games more like simulators for killing people. Hell, I played a (crappy) sniper game for an hour and then walked out of the arcade onto a catwalk above a food court... and couldn't help picking out targets. Mentally, of course.
In this case anyone playing will learn that you can't reload just by firing off-screen, and that real guns are loud, kick, eject shells... and they'll get used to it. I'm not saying that it will turn an ordinary person into a killer, but there is an argume
Re:Sadly... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Sadly... (Score:5, Funny)
Actually... (Score:2)
What's described is little different from firearms training systems such as CAPS, which project live-action video onto a life-size shoot-thru screen - allowing training with full-power live-fire in realistic situations. Police, military, and citizens* have been using this technology for more than a decade (albeit perhaps not quite as technically sophisticated).
(* - some of us realize that the police & military won't be there for us when their job needs to be done.)
Doesn't sound the same (Score:5, Insightful)
All that being said, this sounds pretty cool. It might liven up range time if nothing else.
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True story: in boot camp, on pre-qual day I was platoon high shot, with a 242/250. On qual day, I fell to a 237 (choked under pressure) and someone else stole high shot.
Later, in the fleet, we were going to be tested, right? So, the knuckleheads in the butts thought they'd be funny, and they gave me crap windage data, flagging me as a total miss on half my shots. I KNEW I was hitting, so I blew it off, even though it meant I couldn't log any windage data for qual day.
So that night, this wise ass in my pla
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Yea man. Center mass is what it's all about at 500 meters. Even though I had 20/20 back in the day that strategy usually gave me 7-8 shots in the black from 500m.
Unfortunately I never shot expert until just before I got out when I finally got to use the M-16A2. With the added .75" in the length of the stock I no longer had the rear sight assembly smacking me in the eyebrow with every shot from sitting position (which accounted for 20 out of 50 rounds.)
by the end of the week I looked liked I'd been in a p
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Yea man. Center mass is what it's all about at 500 meters.
Which I'm sure sounds easy to the non-Marines here. Never mind the little gray blur is smaller than the front sight post.
I've heard the M16A4 is so much better that Marines are taking regular shots at 800 yards in Iraq at point targets.
What do these scores mean? (Score:2)
What's "expert"? The list of qualifications. Then more please on your 221 and 7 out of ten experience. 7 out of 10 what's?
For example in my little world of high power rifle.
A Individual classification
High Master 97% or above
Master 94%-96.99%
Expert 89%-93.99%
Sharpshooter 84%-88.99%
Marksman below 84%
B targets and sizes
200 yard target
Aiming black
x ring 3"
10 ri
Re:Doesn't sound the same (Score:4, Funny)
Did you know the army gets tested by shooting at sheet metal signs 300 yards away? If the sign goes "Ding" they get marked down as a hit.
That's nothing, the Bundeswehr practices by shouting "bang" and politely asking the target to fall over.
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:D
A few years ago I was at Markham Park in S. Florida introducing a friend to shooting. Though I have the technique and terminology down pat, I'm not really a good shot (lack of practice mainly). I can hit an 8" target pretty consistently at 125 yds though (yes, is pretty pathetic but I'm damned proud of it).
So I was standing there explaining how to load, how to unload, what to do when the "all clear" blows, etc.. My friend was picking it up. In the next lane was a guy dressed in full camo. He had some
Re:Doesn't sound the same (Score:5, Informative)
The guy in camo is what competition shooters call a mall ninja. He can't shoot, was never in the military, but wants to be a bad ass. That's why he had a big elaborate gun, he bought his way in. You see them at competitions wearing shirts that say "Blackwater" and hats that say "C.I.A".
Bunch of damn tools.
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Re:Doesn't sound the same (Score:5, Funny)
FPS and space shooters (Score:5, Funny)
Ssshhhh, any FPS player knows that bullets travel in infinite straight line at the speed of light.
Unless you use lasers in space shooters. Contrary to a popular disinformation spread frivolously by those lousy physicists, lasers are actually very slow. With a proper engine upgrades, you can outmanuver them easily.
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Makes sense, but what about zombie-sized targets?
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How many FPS games do you know that adjust for wind, elevation (ok, a few have that to a minuscle degree on sniper guns and the like) and other physical effects? We might see them in the near future, but that's hardly a feature of contemporary games.
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Red Orchestra: Ostfront makes you correct for range with all weapons, and individual rounds are simulated. No wind in-game, though, and you need a mod to simulate penetrating walls.
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The problem is less a matter of doing the math to figure in wind and more a matter of giving the player realistic information to make wind calls. As in really shooting a real rifle over a long distance, the hardest part is figuring out what the wind speed(s) actually are. Sure you can hold up a Kestrel and know what the wind is right where you are, but what about the angle? What about gusts? Is it the same speed 400 meters away? 800 meters? That would be even better to know, since your bullet will have slow
Re:Air Force people learn to shoot guns? (Score:5, Informative)
bullshit.
all soldiers (and yes, airforce pilots are also soldiers) undergo the same basic training so if the pilot cannot fly he still can shoot at the enemy or defend himself after ejecting.
this is not a fucking team fortress, real humans are universal.
Re:Air Force people learn to shoot guns? (Score:5, Interesting)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert Heinlein
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From various biographical material, it seems that Heinlein demonstrated all those abilities except "plan an invasion" (he was in the Navy between wars) and "die gallantly" (he died of old age).
Edward.E. Smith probably could have pulled all those things off as well (in his case, probably including "plan an invasion")...
And not always brilliant at it, either. (Score:2)
I loved Heinlein as a kid. My respect for him plummeted when he had a female character that we were supposed to identify with marry a guy who had raped and tortured her ("Friday").
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Before Heinlein was a writer, he was an officer in the Navy, having been through the Naval Academy. Which suggests he probably could take and give orders, co-operate, act alone, conn a ship, fight efficiently, and plan an invasion.
I'd guess that he could also change a diaper, pitch manure, butcher a hog, build a wall, set a bone, balance accounts, and comfort the dying, all of those being skills someone of his background would have picked up one way or another.
The only building I know of he "designed" was
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it is the versatility of humans that helped the species not only to survive but to get on the top of the food chain.
because no one is irreplaceable, because everyone can learn new things, because people have to invent new stuff.
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If everyone does their own work well, it turns out efficient overall, if everyone does [everything] "decently" we end up with crap.
You should be able to do your work well and things related to it decently. If your specialty is programming, you also should be able to see that the PC does not turn on because the cable is unplugged. If you drive a car, you should also know how to change a tire or a battery - you may do it slower than a professional, but it will be faster than waiting for that professional to arrive.
A SWAT team member is unlikely to need to fly a plane, however, a pilot might be shot down and land in enemy territory, knowi
Re:Wash hands (Score:2)
"pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal"
Yeah, definitely needs to wash hands before cooking. Computers are dirty!
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Too right.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3505414.stm [bbc.co.uk]
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Are you kidding me? Chairforce... erm Air Force pilots do not under go the same kind of small arms training that a Marine does. Every branch of service has their own basic training courses. When I went through basic we spent most of one whole day learning about the M16A2 and got to shoot about 100 rounds at the range. The targets were all at simulated range. Meaning that it's a big sheet of paper with targets of varying size and shape.
I knew a girl who enlisted in the army to drive trucks and even she had a
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"in the Core"?
As in, in the "Marine Core"?
Wow. I guess those Air Force pukes just aren't hardcorps enough for that kind of training.
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Not necessarily. Who does security of the perimeter around the air base? Who would defend the air base in war time conditions when the marines and army are out there holding the line?
Knowing how to defend your colleagues, the installation and yourself is not a waste of money. It's not like they are in a low risk job and will never be deployed overseas.
Of course if their training is almost meaningless and treated as a joke by those doing said training. Then I agree with you.
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Seems that no one had arranged for their firearms training. They had to complete that before they could ship out. So they were all loaded onto trucks and brought to a deserted part of the Jersey shore (they were stationed in Atlantic City at that point - the hotels had all been converted to barracks)
They were each given a rifle, and th
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Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot or weapons officer. I know Air Force security personnel who had to "knock doors" in Iraq.
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Dude, have you *seen* Stargate?
Certainly not! (Score:2)
90s-era American science fiction movie starring Kurt Russell? Hardly!
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Re:Air Force people learn to shoot guns? (Score:4, Funny)
You're either a troll or completely retarded. Allow me to enlighten you: most personnel in the Air Force don't serve in planes.
... they are shot out of catapults
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Family Guy did it (Score:2)
Just saw that last night in one of their patented "off the wall tangent" clips. They were playing paintball in the house and realized they didn't have paintball guns, so they decided to use real guns.
System (Score:5, Interesting)
Wrong approach... (Score:2)
Live ammo is actually irrelevant part of the project.
It would have been far cooler if they played the fact that ANYTHING thrown at the wall registers as the accelerometers they've placed in the wall measure impact of practically anything.
As can be seen at the end of the video - it is far more fun to hit zombies with shovels than to shoot them.
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Only new because the average joe is doing it with off the shelf components?
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It's new because:
a) Live ammo. Different technology.
b) It's *fun*, and put together by a bunch of students, not a defence contractor.
c) Dirt cheap. I mean, really - the most expensive part of the rig is probably the LabView license.
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>>c) Dirt cheap. I mean, really - the most expensive part of the rig is probably the LabView license.
The most expensive part of the rig is probably the ammo. .40 s&w sells for over 50 cents/round most places. 9mm is not much better.
-b
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This is likely not something you want to boast about.
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The field exercises were going very well. The colonel watched his men run around shouting "bangity bang bang!" at each other while maneuvering through the battlefield. Suddenly all the men started retreating, the fear vivid on their faces. Behind them, a solitary soldier slowly came towards them. "Tankity tankity tank."
-b
I suck at telling jokes.
Monitors can not be used this way. (Score:2)
I've tried. They just stop showing the pretty pictures.
In before... (Score:2)
Konami did it already (Score:4, Interesting)
Granted, their version used something like Airsoft pellets rather than live rounds, but the idea was the same. Kind of a fun game, if you ignore the pellets that keep bouncing off the target and hitting you in the face...
Some info on the game. [arcade-history.com]
MUhahaha.. M4 Carbine vs Controller (Score:4, Funny)
Guns are OK, but *shovels*? Now we're talking! (Score:2)
I preferred the bit at the end where they start dispatching the bad guys with shovels.
Now I want to play Left 4 Dead with a shovel!
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Or they can just move to my country... (Score:2)
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Where I live there's an indoor shooting range with a projection system. I remember one afternoon in the late nineties when a couple of us went and had a huge amount of good, clean, violent fun with the street battle scene from the movie Heat [imdb.com] - must have been a year or two after it was released.
After that I've often wondered how one could go about creating a 3-D projection system for total immersion. One of the walls I ran into was the problem of running onto a wall :-) And then soon after, paintball took o
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Running into walls?
You should have been standing still. Were you trying to create a projection system, or a Holodeck?
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I must confess that as I'm not a Half-Life gamer, I had to refer to Wikipedia. Quoting:
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Backwards (Score:2, Funny)
They are missing the point (Score:2)
The whole idea of playing Half Life is not to go outside with real guns and kill aliens, but to sit in front of your laptop and killing them with mouse clicks.
If I wanted to kill aliens with real guns, I could do that without starting my PC... right?
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Yes, but you'd need to fire up your Mac in order to upload a virus to the mothership.
Hardly improves on an old method (Score:4, Interesting)
Reminds me of basic training in the army in the 70s. A projection screen is rolled around two rotating vertical cylinders, one on the left and one on the right, therefore forming a "double layer screen". A movie is projected on the front of the screen and light also shines from the back. The trainee shoots at the screen, where the movie representing the advancing enemy is running. At the "bang", the movie projector freezes the frame and we can see light shining from the back through the two aligned holes in the front and back screens. The instructor can determine whether it's a hit and then the cylinders are rotated so that the front and back holes are not aligned anymore and the impact disappears, and the exercise continues.
reloading (Score:2, Funny)
Military would love this. (Score:2)
I have seen lasers and blanks with rifles and differing scenarios for military use, but real bullets would make it even more real since you would get the kick, muzzle rise etc. This would be more realistic than blanks and a laser. So IMO this is really cool and I want one.
Lag? (Score:2)
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You are the avatar; there'd be no reason to include an on-screen avatar in an immersion simulation. All the computer has to do is calculate the (x, y) of the impact and then check to see if an enemy is currently drawn over that location.
The only lag would be due to the shock waves not being instantaneously received by the sensors, but since those travel at the speed of sound and there's relatively little distance involved I don't think it would be noticeable.
Nothing like adding a little realism to a game (Score:2)
Very similar to archery targets (Score:3, Interesting)
Just browsing the summary, but this sounds very similar to some of the archery systems they have set up at hunting stores.
A woodland scene is projected on a screen, and you actually fired your own arrows (points replaced with a blunted tip) onto the screen. It would mark where you hit, and then 'score' your performance based on where it felt the best position to shoot the animal was.
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Did you even watch the video?
No I didn't. I was short on time, and assumed that the summary captured the essence of the story. Was I mistaken?
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You must be new here.
The essence of a Slashdot discussion is how far the summary is from reality.
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This should not be marked as flamebait and raises a very genuine problem.
Live and 'simulation' weapons training should always be quarantined to prevent disastrous fuckups.
I cannot STAND it when indoor firearms ranges have a coin operated shooting game. It's just begging for someone to pull out a real gun, out of habit.
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Watch the video.
Next time your wife gets pissy, use the shovel.
Re:Been done... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, but it hasn't been done for about five bucks worth of parts.
Those simulation systems are aimed at government or military budgets, and are well outside the reach of hobbyists, or small security and law-enforcement agencies.
Admittedly Quake and Doom aren't useful training tools for real world combatives, but it's a start...
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Dunno, the shooting range up the street has a CCW class which includes time in a simulator... heard it is realistic enough to get your adrenaline flowing!
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