Dedicated Halo 2 Fans Keep Multiplayer Alive 239
On April 15th, Microsoft terminated Xbox Live support for the original Xbox console, marking the end of online multiplayer for many older games. However, a group of Halo 2 players have refused to give up online play by leaving their consoles on and connected since then. Overheating consoles and dropped connections have taken their toll, but at present, 13 players are still going strong.
MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
really be required to legally release server side software for the PC to enable people to play their Xbox games. Quite frankly I really hate this bullshit service where companies have control over games people paid for in a "forced obsolescence" model of attempting to control the lifespan of a product and when to torch it to force people to upgrade.
It's unfortunate that the copyright and software licensing nazi's got control of the law due to the ignorance of the people.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, what CONSUMERS "should" do is to QUIT buying software that's subject to such prone-obsolescence systems. If consumers are too stupid or unable to resist buying the latest and greatest despite such issues, then companies will continue to find it in their financial best interests to do so.
At least with a PC, there are methods to hack around this (even WoW has private servers, illegal but they're there), but now you see part of the actual total-cost-of-ownership for that console.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
"No, what CONSUMERS "should" do is to QUIT buying software that's subject to such prone-obsolescence systems"
Reality is people are too stupid to do this because the do not understand their rights, the informed minority is outnumbered by the ignorant majority. In theory the free market is supposed to work this way, in practice it absolutely does not as we've seen again and again.
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The same tired argument comes up every time the government adds a new safety standard because X number of preventable deaths occurred. Free market advocates say, "Well the market should sort out whether a safety feature is added!" And sometimes they even rehash the tired, "But people will drive safer if they know they could die at any moment!" argument. The former never happens, it just never does. You can wait until the end of time, the only people who choose to pay for safety, even if ends up reducing cos
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I agree, the market doesn't work. The games should have a clear "ends by" date on the label, with the publisher allowed to extend past but not prematurely terminate the server.
It would cost lots of server-side intellectual property to release the source code, especially if it's a licensed server engine. I don't think the appropriate response is to release the code anyway. If not one programmer type is interested in the game it still dies in that case.
If the consumers cannot inform themselves then we must
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It is misguided to suggest that MS should be forced to release the server source or anything like that, but in exchange for not doing so, would it be so hard to put a label promising XX years of service? It would force them to carry a liability on their balance sheet though--could be bad if the game is a total flop--so I could see them offering relatively short guarantee periods with extension being the status quo on any popular game.
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Not sure how this is a failure of the free market, there are plenty of other choices out there besides Xbox Live and lots of people select them. Heck, Halo 2 is available on Windows if you want to play multiplayer, or you can even use third-party online services to still play on the Xbox. There are solutions out there to those who still want to play.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
Reality is people are too stupid to do this because the do not understand their rights, the informed minority is outnumbered by the ignorant majority. In theory the free market is supposed to work this way, in practice it absolutely does not as we've seen again and again.
You call them too stupid. I call them people who do not care if they can play these games on Xbox Live six years later. The game still has LAN support. The fact that only a couple dozen people cared enough to try to do something about it is proof that nobody really cares. I just bought Halo 3 ODST because it finally had a major price drop at Costco ($25.) I don't care that one day, the only way I'll be able to do multiplayer is on a LAN. I'm sure I'll get $25 of enjoyment out of it, and I don't even have Live Gold. To some people it was worth $60 to get it when everyone else got it so they could play online, I'm not that guy.
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"people are too stupid to do [stop buying this type of software] because they do not understand their rights"
What 'rights' are you talking about? The customer bought a license to a software game, that included online play as long as the vendor hosted servers, which they never contracted to do forever The vendor no longer hosts servers. They haven't repossessed the game. Have they breached the license, or any other legally implied duties?
Then what 'rights' are you referring to with your aggrieved pop
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I hate having to be the one going against slashdot's popular opinion, but not everybody is interested in playing the same game for several years.
The common gamer just wants new games with better graphics every once in a while.
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No, what CONSUMERS "should" do is to QUIT buying software that's subject to such prone-obsolescence systems. If consumers are too stupid or unable to resist buying the latest and greatest despite such issues, then companies will continue to find it in their financial best interests to do so.
At least with a PC, there are methods to hack around this (even WoW has private servers, illegal but they're there), but now you see part of the actual total-cost-of-ownership for that console.
The total cost was never hidden. Halo 2 cost $50, and if you wanted to play online, you needed XBL Gold, which cost $50/yr. They aren't just seeing the TCO now, it was always immediately obvious. If you were paying that just to get Halo 2 online, then now it is not worth it to you-- so stop paying it. You're no longer getting the service, but you're no longer paying for it. There is no loss there. If you own a 360 and you have other games you can play online (like Halo 3) you can decide if that is worth $50
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I'll also point out that if MS isn't allowed to say 'we're no longer offering the service, so feel free to stop giving us $50/year,' you're not allowed to say 'I'm no longer offering you $50/year, so feel free to stop giving me the service.'
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At least with a PC, there are methods to hack around this (even WoW has private servers, illegal but they're there), but now you see part of the actual total-cost-of-ownership for that console.
They have that for Xbox as well; it's called xbconnect.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not trying to be a douche here, but the game is almost 6 years old and runs on an outdated service that was generally limited to an outdated console. The last original Xbox's were sold in 2006, and have not been supported by Microsoft for almost a year (seriously any original Xboxes that need service and are somehow still under warranty are simply replaced by an Xbox 360). People that buy multiplayer intensive video games have to enter into that knowing that the game will not be supported indefinitely. I can understand your criticism if it were directed at the mass of sports games that are re-released every year, but not this.
Plus, the game still runs fine in single player and over system link. The only thing that is being discontinued is XBLive support, which Microsoft never promised would be maintained in perpetuity. Its not like MS is sending people out to repossess the disks.
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The GP mentions that SystemLink is still available. Doesn't that mean that people can play multiplayer games via a tunneling solution? Have somebody throw together a frontend/matchmaking service for that and you've got exactly what you're asking for.
I don't know what the state of it is right now, but I remember using XBConnect to play the original Halo online. The downside of if was that it didn't have Matchmaking or in game voice communication like XBlive does. I remember having to use a computer to join a chat room to find someone to play with, and only being able to communicate through chat. I don't know anything about where this stands now, but it seems to me that it would be workable.
Of course, the OP's point (which after reflection I agree wit
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Of course, the OP's point (which after reflection I agree with) is that the End User shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get it to work. MS ought to make this known and available to players before they end their support.
It was pretty well known that the matchmaking service required XBox Live access. Look here [com.com], all the orange items on the list require XBox Live access to use. There's your fair warning.
So, the question is if MS should continue to provide access to XBox Live in perpetuity. I see no reason why this is any different from an MMO shuttering its servers. Yes, it sucks for those who bought the game and can't play it any more, but that's part of the deal when what you buy depends on a service being available.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
Every once in a while I pull out my diablo ii cd's and play
certian movies put me in mood to play a turn based strategy game that came out in 1997 to the point I will install windows to play it.
Good games hold their replay value. Companies that limit that value undermine future game sales.
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But the only financial incentive to keep the server software private is to force these people to buy the Xbox 360 and Halo 3 if they want to keep playing online.
The Xbox is dead, so stop supporting the servers, but give away the software for fans to continue using it.
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But, OK, let's pretend it is a big deal and look at this another way. Why not create and release (even sell) a server version that allows others to connect? The community will find a way to post these private servers in a list so that others can connect. Of course the nicest solution is to release the sour
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WOW is 6 or more years old, Counter-strike is going on 10+ years old. Both are still hugely popular multiplayer games.
WOW has continued being updated so thats a bit less of a fair comparison, but I think the point remains. Multiplayer games have a lot more longevity than single player games.
The market started with PC online play where anyone can run a server. I don't think anyone really expected to have the primary gameplay of their console games to be turned off indefinitely.
Look at Diablo, Diablo2, and
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These people can no longer play online multiplayer, a feature which they paid for. If the game or console isn't broken then it's reasonable for them to expect that they could continue playing.
Online multiplayer was a feature of XBox Live, a sevice which they also needed to pay for. That service no longer exists as of the 15th. These features were marked as such on the box [com.com]. None of the features of the game are missing (system link multiplayer is still available), only those of the service because it no longer exists.
In the future an even worse situation will occur now that games need to be authenticated online in order to play even the single player campaign. What will happen then once those servers are taken offline in 5+ years? The business model shifted from buying to renting without us even noticing.
In this case, we've got the same situation as an MMO going out of business. The Ubisoft (and similar) DRM is a whole different issue entirely.
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Yeah, sure. Destroy an argument by providing ONE example of a game where that doesn't work. The fact is, you still have plenty of online multiplayer games that don't requiring a connection to the publisher servers. How many console games provide that? I'm guessing none.
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Halo 2 can still be played via system link. You can tunnel through the internet without connecting to the provided matchmaking servers. Add any other game that can be played via system link.
Again, this is an issue where the game is linked to the XBox Live service. It is absolutely no different from the cases of Tabula Rasa, Hellgate London, or any other defunct MMO in that ability to play the game is dependent upon the service being running.
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really be required to legally release server side software for the PC to enable people to play their Xbox games. Quite frankly I really hate this bullshit service where companies have control over games people paid for in a "forced obsolescence" model of attempting to control the lifespan of a product and when to torch it to force people to upgrade.
It's unfortunate that the copyright and software licensing nazi's got control of the law due to the ignorance of the people.
This is bogus. Online multiplayer is NOT included in Halo 2. It is a separate subscription fee (Xbox Live Gold). There is absolutely no legal basis whatsoever to justify forcing MS to release this functionality, because it was never included in the price you paid for Halo 2; it was always separate.
If you weren't an Xbox Live Gold subscriber, then you're not missing out on anything now that you had before, because online play was never available to you anyway. If you're paying the XBL Gold fee to play Halo 2
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You play as long as they want you to, the shove the next thing they want you to play down your throat. As much as people hate to admit it, consoles are for the ADD generation. Would they be able to set up private servers?
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This is just a good reason to dislike the Match Making type concept instead of a proper mechanism that can permit you to 'Connect via Direct IP'.
Forcing either Match Making or Server-Browser only it just abusive.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes out with a Xbox1 compatible server emu.
Re:MS should... (Score:4, Informative)
Please investigate the situations of individual titles before suggesting blanket solutions.
Halo 2 is being end-of-lifed in no small part because it relies on an outmoded Xbox 1 Live server ecosystem. This has limited the Xbox 360 to a specific number of friends on their friends list, older types of interactions with people online, etc. There are a lot of people asking for upgrades to the Xbox that have been blocked for this one particular game, which Microsoft has kept alive for 4 years after the original console (that didn't sell that well anyway) went away.
All of this relies upon Xbox Live. The game expects friend requests, chat requests, server pings, score update connections, DLC purchases, etc. All of these things are signed and protected to prevent A: online cheating, B: griefers, C: penis spam. Further, they have legal commitments to their partners to keep Xbox Live a secure system. This doesn't apply to most individual PC titles, as they are essentially standalone.
For Microsoft to release official software that allowed people to play Xbox 1 games like Halo 2 online, they'd have to release large chunks of Xbox Live. Then they'd need to do things like strip out any dedicated IP's, Oracle database calls, other copyrighted code, etc that might be floating around in there. What would people get? An impenetrable mess that, at best, would still require a fake NAT and a server farm to work.
Halo 2 fans, currently by comparison, can use SSH tunneling to create a fake LAN, and enjoy the game that way. This is a much more sane solution.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
"We're talking about a *game*, not your oxygen supply"
We are talking about money paid, and the principle of having companies take away our ability to use what we have legally paid for, just because they have us by the balls.
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
More than likely the Halo 2 servers are running on a PC, be it virtualized or other. Microsoft is completely rewriting the Halo codebase from the ground up for Halo 4 or whatever it is they're calling it. Considering most people bought the game for the multiplayer releasing the source code for the servers is a small concession to make. Usually I could care less, but unless MS offers Halo 2 on the 360 live arcade for free to existing owners, Microsoft is kind of screwing over their customer base.
I bought counter strike back in 1998, but I still pull it out and play it from time to time. Hell, it's Valve's most popular game to date [steampowered.com]*, even today. To top that off, Valve upgraded me to the Valve Platinum Pack for using the HL CD key that came with the copy of HL I bought just for Counter-Strike. The only thing Microsoft supports beyond the scheduled lifespan of the product is old Windows and Office updates as near as I can tell, never games.
Valve actively supports their games and player base, Microsoft turns their back on them. Which one do you want to support?
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*Actually right now it's COD4, but that's because they just had a $15 steam sale on it.
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You mean you couldn't care less. Sorry, grammar nazi mode from all those Xbox's.
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You're a grammar Nazi who doesn't know not to use an apostrophe as a plural? It's "Xboxes". How hard is that? At worst, just use "xboxs". It's more correct than using an apostrophe, which is *never* to be used for pluralization.
Not completely correct sorry... the apostrophe represents a missing letter in ALL cases... including the genitive (possessive). The possessive form in English has evolved from an es ending on words to simply 's. This however is still a skipped letter. Plurals that have an "e" such as "boxes" could therefore theoretically be shortened to "box's" also, just as we skip letters in don't, 'less, 'til and even twice in bo's'n. It's certainly not common or well known to skip the vowel in a plural "es", but it'
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You too? I thought they did it for me because I was an early subscriber to Steam or something.
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Don't buy their products.
Granted, those products are fun, but you pay the price for their proprietary nature when support goes away.
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"For ones, is freedom" (Score:2)
"For ones, is Freedom.
Others want One Item of Luxury.
Others want hugs. Others want sex.
One man Oxygen is other man luxury item. "
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"We're talking about a *game*, not your oxygen supply"
We are talking about money paid, and the principle of having companies take away our ability to use what we have legally paid for, just because they have us by the balls.
If all you bought is Halo 2, you have no legal right to online multiplayer-- you didn't buy it.
If you bought XBL Gold, you could play Halo 2 and other Xbox and Xbox 360 games online for $50 a year. Now that system doesn't support the original Xbox games anymore (either on the Xbox console or on the 360 in emulation).
If you don't want the service anymore because of the closure of that service, then you can cancel your subscription. No one has taken away any ability to use something for which they have paid.
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The "money paid" was paid to enter into an expiring contract for provision of a service - a service that Microsoft is free to terminate. Now that the service is being terminated, people using Xbox Live solely to play OXbox games like Halo 2 no longer need to pay for it.
Halo 2 still works just fine, and no one is taking away the ability to use it.
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Actually, when you buy a copy of Halo 2, you aren't automatically entitled to a lifetime of free XBox Live access. From the release of the game, you had to pay an extra montly subscription in order to access online multiplayer via XBox Live. Microsoft is no longer charging that monthly fee because the service is discontinued. Microsoft
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"Microsoft didn't take away the ability to play via system link, split screen, or single player. That's what a customer purchasing Halo 2 "legally paid for.""
No it's not, as multiplayer is specifically advertised on the game packaging.
Oops, I don't have multiplayer access.
And the game is still being sold in stores.
False advertising.
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Anyone remember MS deleting everyone's email a few years ago? They long ago proved they regard customers merely as cash cows to be milked. Their heavy handed marketing tactics are so ingrained in their corporate culture it's no surprise they rolled out yet another "screw the customer" plan. This is all par for the course and yet another reminder why I'll never willingly buy a single MS product.
Re:MS should... (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't remember that, actually.
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He's probably alluding to the snafu at Danger (an MS subsidiary), were a botched disk upgrade + botched backups lost pretty much all of Sidekick's clients data.
Danger was seen as a trailblazer in cloud-based stuff, BTW. We've been warned :-p
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I also seem to recall that a few days later, after working with the SAN manufacturer, they got most of the data back. The real lesson that was taken away was 'Don't go saying 'all is lost' the same day you have the problem; say 'there's a problem, we're working on it.' Then go work on it.
Re:MS should... (Score:4, Funny)
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True, and customers should treat the purchase of such a game as rental and adjust the sum they are willing to pay downwards to compensate.
Personally, I think a 50% discount would be appropriate in this case. If all customers would refuse to pay more than, say, $30 for a new game unless it comes with dedicated server/matchmaking software you can run on your own server, the industry would learn fast.
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We're talking about a *game*, not your oxygen supply.
So if you pay to see a movie and after half an hour it simply stops you don't complain, as your life doesn't depend on watching the full movie, right?
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You can still play multiplayer in Halo 2 on your Xbox over a local network, same as how you have to play Doom II or Quake 1. You just can't browse for & play online games, same as will happen when they yank the Quake III master server.
(Yes, you can manually connect to servers over the Internet by IP once that happens, but you can do that with your Xbox too [xbconnect.com].)
Re:MS should... (Score:5, Insightful)
It makes me feel like I moved from US to Soviet Russia and gave up all my freedoms.
I completely agree. Not being able to play a game online is just like the massacres, disappearances, and political oppression visited upon people by the Soviet Russian government.
See also: Tea Parties (Score:2)
Unofficial route.. (Score:3, Informative)
Or you could go the unofficial route and play these games online using xlink kai (http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/)...
Pity they clamped down on this with the 360, so once support for the 360 is turned off users will be screwed.
I rather expected something different (Score:2)
One commenter got close when they mentioned there should be a requirement by Microsoft to provide something that enables full play access to these older consoles and their games. I agree that they should. I doubt they ever will.
Instead what I would hope to see is a more industrious effort to implement some sort of gateway device with tunnel or some such thing where xboxes are tunnelled into VPN in the cloud where people can host their own games and the like. I know there are some "LAN game play over inte
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One commenter got close when they mentioned there should be a requirement by Microsoft to provide something that enables full play access to these older consoles and their games. I agree that they should.
What is your opinion of MMOs who shutter their servers? What if they don't have money to continue running them? What if they are simply unprofitable?
The price of a couple dedicated servers (Score:2)
Re:The price of a couple dedicated servers (Score:5, Funny)
They need that 5-10k for Bing :)
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Probably, maybe less. The reality of a virtualized world means that there's no need for excessive amounts of extra storage due to deduolication, servers only need to start on demand to fulfill user expectancy,
Maintenance is a joke, once a system is up and running in a virtual environment it can run anywhere in your enterprise.
The likely reason is that there were actually too many people still using the service and not generating new revenue for MS. Good luck getting them to admit it though.
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That said, they're definitely a bunch of penny pinching scrooges. I've been businesses make similar heavyhanded "profit saving" measures w/r/t what they will and will not support, and lets just say the customers ended up not being very understanding or pl
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According to MS, the reason why certain upgrades to Xbox Live have not been possible was the continued support for Xbox 1 online titles, as they all live within the same server system. They learned a lot about flexible implementations after the original xbox, and put most of the live features within the console's system HUD. But Xbox 1 titles all have the code within the game itself, that limits their options.
Walling off a separate Xbox 1 doesn't seem like a viable solution if everything is hardwired (and
Isn't this what the fanboys said was impossible? (Score:5, Interesting)
I seem to recall that in pretty much every discussion about "rented" software, software that doesn't work without the developer's servers or online authentication there have been cadres of fanboys who have claimed that obviously the developers (including MS) would nevar!!1 just shut down their servers without first "opening" the game so that full functionality can be retained.
So how's that trust in corporations working out for you?
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So stop making stuff up so that you could feel smug.
This is why I love PC (Score:2)
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So buy a different game.
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Forget the politics - these guys are awesome (Score:3, Funny)
Forget about the politics for a moment. What these guys are doing is an awesome tale of human perseverance in the face of adversity. As a fellow gamer I salute them
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I agree. I salute them for their courage and I applaud their perseverance and I embrace them for their faith in the face of adversarial forces.
Shutting them down (Score:2)
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I believe the game itself is not hosted on the XBox Live servers. Live acts as a matchmaking service, but the person who starts the game is hosting it on their box. As long as all the players stay connected, the game will continue indefinitely.
Was on there as well (Score:3, Interesting)
I was on Halo 2 aswell until a couple of days ago. Actually got recorded in the last ranked game of Halo 2.
It's kind of neat how fast the community got friendly with each other. I actually saw teabagging completely stop once it dropped down to about 30-40 people left.
LAN Play? (Score:2)
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There are other options... (Score:2)
Re:One of the ley reasons I don't like online game (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One of the ley reasons I don't like online game (Score:5, Insightful)
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I guess their Celeron 300 (Oc'd to 400, ofc)
Nitpick... back in the day, we oc'd those bad boys to 450. The 300's were 66MHz bus * 4.5 multiplier; they mostly all moved nicely to the 100MHz bus to get a 450MHz chip with tiny cache. Still, cheaper than a P2-450 or P3-450 at the time.
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i wonder whats going to happen when Blizzard finally stops updating WOW? lol
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iD and Raven's earlier networked shooters (Doom*, Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen) didn't have Internet play built-in. Nor did Duke Nukem 3D**.
Quake was the first FPS game to introduce a client-server system, as opposed to the peer-to-peer system earlier games used. This means it was also the first game that used dedicated servers. (Side note: Its In
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Phantasy Star Online? Not so much.
http://www.schtserv.com/ [schtserv.com] - I've used that to play Both the GC Ep1&2 and the PC BlueBurst online successfully
It seems to contain players who actually want to play PSO, too, unlike the real servers, that just ended up with idiots using exploits to make other people crash
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It's support for connecting to XBL using XB1 games that's been disabled, so it's the same on a 360 as an original machine
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"Halo2 on the 360" is just Halo 2 for the original Xbox, running in emulation mode; it's still affected.
Not affected is Halo 2 for PC, which is running the "modern" Live used by 360 games.
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How recent is recent? The game came out in November 2004.
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The story I've heard is that the server software that runs XBox 1 and 360 Live services is the same software. So they are not shutting down anything, just dropping support for XBox 1. Supposedly XBox 1 legacy support was holding back new features for the 360, like upping the friend limit past 100 [g4tv.com].