Doom 3 Source Released 187
alteveer writes "Just like Quake 3 before it, the Doom 3 source code has been released to the public (minus rendering of stencil shadows via the 'depth fail' method, a functionality commonly known as 'Carmack's Reverse')."
Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with the (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm curious because the tech is there. Are there any fun open source games?
Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:4, Interesting)
Check out Tremulous
Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:4, Informative)
Check out Tremulous
Or World Of Padman, also (as far as I know) a derivative work from Quake3 sources, like Tremulous. (World Of Padman [worldofpadman.com])
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I came here to post because of tremulous.
Be nice if this could turn into something similar.
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It'd be really nice if we could start work on porting Trem to idtech4. Imagine the possibilities! *drool*
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Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:5, Informative)
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I feel like the level design is more due to the way the teams work-- a wide open space a-la wake island would result in the aliens getting torn to pieces. The game lends itself far more to closed in maps.
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On another note, I have to say I was quite disappointed with the Battlefield 3
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on a separate note, i've never understood the desire for an FPS to be "realistic"... i mean, they simpl
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Wait, you mean you actually LIKE CoD? Geek card status: revoked. I mean, you would have been fine if you hadn't compared it FAVORABLY to quake 3. There is no comparison, only disgrace.
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How about not a clone at all but something original.
If you're going through all the work and trouble of building an entire game, it might as well be your own design.
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It's difficult to do in open source because of the shared vision. When building an open source project and getting contributions everyone must be "on the same page" hence why you see a lot of clones because everyone already understands what the idea is and can rally around it.
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Let me guess, you are one of those whiners that bitch even when you are being hanged to death with a new rope...
Bla Bla Bla.. I dont like pink rope....... Gaaaaaaaakk...
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Its not based around vehicles, and its not a straight up FPS. It is similar in some ways to TF2, but probably the closest thing to it is Command and Conquer: Renegade (a FPS / RTS hybrid).
One of its charming unique aspects is the versatility of the aliens-- being able to play a wall-crawling headcrab or a gigantic trampling monstrosity is always a lot of fun, and it feels really balanced-- a good character can use the weakest weapons and still dominate.
There are reasons to play Battlefield, or TF2, but the
Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:5, Informative)
Xonotic (successor to Nexuiz) is worth a look: http://www.xonotic.org/ [xonotic.org]
I think that might actually have evolved from Quake 2 era code originally, or something crazy like that - it's a lot more advanced now.
UFO:AI uses the Quake 2 engine on some level as well I think: http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/News [ninex.info]
In my experience Nexuiz and UFO:AI have both been quality Open Source games, although I think UFO:AI contains some media that are not categorised as fully Free in the strictest sense. Xonotic looks to be doing some cool new things and I hope that UFO:AI has also improved since I last played with it.
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Quake. Nexuiz uses the darkplaces engine, which is the first quake's engine redone :)
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was going to plug ufo:ai, even though i don't have the time to popularise it much lately. it uses id engine for 3d environments (although quite modified by now), and is of a fairly good quality and fun level.
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Not Open Source, but Brink came out this spring based on the Doom 3 (IDTECH 3, I think?) source code. While terribly supported by the developer (Splash Damage) for the PC, it's a beautiful game, and really says a lot about what can be done with this codebase.
Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:5, Insightful)
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If only Lucasarts were listening... I mean, the possibility they could still *sell* the original X-wing & TIE series (DOS ones, with iMuse, not the CD-audio crap) aren't just there, so unless it's
1- Just because they don't want to
2- Some code might have been licensed
My money is on n.1
(yes, I know about Dosbox, but it has some sound issues)
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LucasArts? If only they'd release Jedi Knight II and Jedi Academy source code, which is base on Quake 3 anyway... But, nooooo.
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Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:5, Informative)
Here are a few link to lists that answer your question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_3#Projects_based_on_the_GPL_source_release [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_2#Games_based_on_the_GPL_source_release [wikipedia.org]
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Doom 3 release is going to be great for The Dark Mod among other projects: http://www.thedarkmod.com/main/
Open Arena (Score:4, Informative)
Open Arena [wikia.com] is a small, but active community. There are always open games to play online, and some crazy mods [wikia.com] (like Defrag to learn how to circle jump) that make it fun.
Works great in linux with old hardware as it's based off Quake III.
Re:Has anyone actually made any worthwhile with th (Score:5, Insightful)
From the tone of your post, it sounds as if you are dubious about the point of companies releasing their source.
I find that depressing. Once a studio has released a game, patched the worst of the bugs, and moved on, disbanded, been bought up, that game is effectively dead. Sooner or later, some new hardware or software update will poke a hole in it, it will become impossible to run, and it will sink into the abyss taking all its fun and charm with it. The only way to keep hold of your old favourite games is to preserve your old computer, like an embalmed beige corpse in a crypt under the stairs, exhuming it once in a while to fill a void left by the abscence of anything even remotely similar in modern games.
For me this game would be Dungeon Keeper, for you, I bet there is a 90% chance there is something you can fit in this story.
My point is, id is a good sport releasing source code, but ALL games should release their source eventually. Once they have been sold in their millions, they are, in spirit, public property, and like a park or a road or a shopping centre, they need people to maintain them, until they have been able to live out their full lifespan gracefully.
Now if you need me I will be under the stairs, slapping my imps...
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Oh, Dungeon Keeper, how I loved that game.
Mod Parent +1 Nostalgic
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For me this game would be Dungeon Keeper, for you, I bet there is a 90% chance there is something you can fit in this story.
My Dungeon Keeper CDs are too scratched to install, but I completed Dungeon Keeper 2 in WINE on OS X a few weeks ago. Judging by the comments on gog.com, it's more stable running on WINE than on Windows...
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quake 2 --> halflife --> natural selection
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That was not made when the engine was GPLd and old, it was made under private licensing arrangements and new.
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No, it (Half-Life's GoldSrc engine) is based on Quake 1, not Quake 2. And since the Source engine is based on GoldSrc, there are still bits of Quake 1 code in modern Source games like Portal 2.
Natural-Selection, while awesome, is a mod with no access to the game engine itself. Natural-Selection 2 originally used the Source engine as a paid licensee, but later switched to their own in-house engine, Spark.
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>>I'm curious because the tech is there. Are there any fun open source games?
People still play Quake 1 / Quakeworld with updated clients that have better textures, bloom, lighting, particle effects etc. Look up FTEQuake some time (http://www.fteqw.com/), and come to the weekly game sessions (http://www.attackersgored.com/?page_id=56)
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Has anyone ever made anything worthwhile with the NEW ones?
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Another level (Score:5, Interesting)
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Brink didn't use Megatextures, there was no need for it to do so.
The only two games to use Megatextures so far are RAGE and Quake Wars. In the latter, they work quite well.
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License (Score:5, Informative)
It seems that the licensing is a mess.
The header in the source files state that the code is GPLv3 or any later version, with additional clauses added.
In addition, the Doom 3 Source Code is also subject to certain additional terms. You should have received a copy of these additional terms immediately following the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public License which accompanied the Doom 3 Source Code. If not, please request a copy in writing from id Software at the address below.
However, it seems that it is only possible to apply these additional terms to GPL version 3 exactly (and not any later version):
2. Replacement of Section 16. Section 16 of the GPL shall be deleted in its entirety and replaced with the following:
These additional terms seem to be just disclaimers of liability and an indemnity clause, but it is entirely possible that they make the source GPL-incompatible, which, if true, would be a huge disappointment.
So not only is the license not self-consistent, it is likely also GPL-incompatible. The additional terms may further make the license non-free, and definitely non-DFSG-compliant. Thanks go to the corporate lawyers who have turned Carmack's good intentions into an abomination. I hope that they can re-release this under saner terms.
Re:License (Score:5, Informative)
This doesn't seem to be a problem since the base GPL v3 license explicitly allows replacement of Section 16:
7. Additional Terms.
"Additional permissions" are terms that supplement the terms of this
License by making exceptions from one or more of its conditions.
Additional permissions that are applicable to the entire Program shall
be treated as though they were included in this License, to the extent
that they are valid under applicable law. If additional permissions
apply only to part of the Program, that part may be used separately
under those permissions, but the entire Program remains governed by
this License without regard to the additional permissions.
When you convey a copy of a covered work, you may at your option
remove any additional permissions from that copy, or from any part of
it. (Additional permissions may be written to require their own
removal in certain cases when you modify the work.) You may place
additional permissions on material, added by you to a covered work,
for which you have or can give appropriate copyright permission.
Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, for material you
add to a covered work, you may (if authorized by the copyright holders of
that material) supplement the terms of this License with terms:
a) Disclaiming warranty or limiting liability differently from the
terms of sections 15 and 16 of this License; or
b) Requiring preservation of specified reasonable legal notices or ... [snip] ...
author attributions in that material or in the Appropriate Legal
Notices displayed by works containing it; or
Re:License (Score:4)
The GPL3 does indeed state that. But isn't the purpose of section 7 only to allow the copyright holder to work around the fact that the header of the license states that changing it is not allowed? Section 7 explicitly mentions that you have to have permission from the copyright holder to add additional clauses. You may thus add restrictions to the license which are not counter to the spirit of the vanilla GPL3.
But the question is, how does this affect compatibility between "GPL3 with additional restrictions" and just "GPL3"? Since without permission from the copyright holder you cannot add or remove additional restrictions, you may not use the licenses interchangeably. Because the additional restrictions are not present in the vanilla GPL3 (which does not allow additional restrictions unless you are the copyright holder and these restrictions fall under section 7), if you combine GPL3 code and "GPL3 with restrictions" code, it seems to me that there is no possible way to satisfy the terms of both licenses simultaneously.
So the way I see it, although GPL3 allows you to add these terms, by doing so you make your license GPL3-incompatible. If this is the case then it is troubling, and I would welcome any clarification from someone who knows the details behind this.
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Carmack's Reverse (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, I thought that was when he went from the god of PC graphics with games like Quake to their bane with that abortion Rage.
Re:Carmack's Reverse (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Carmack's Reverse (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'd mod you up if I had points.
I like the Doom 3 engine, but the game itself was lack luster. It does say a lot that the game still looks pretty good years later, but the gameplay hasn't aged well at all. I still get a blast out of playing Wolf3d, Doom and Quake, but Doom 3 was a serious snore. As much as people complained about DNF, it was at least fun to play and funny.
Re:Carmack's Reverse (Score:5, Informative)
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Actually... yes.
I hated Quake 3. Really loathed and despised it. Lazy game design without the artistic style of earlier id games. Enjoyed the first few hours of Doom 3, until I had all of its tricks figured out, after which it was kind of boring. But with Quake 4, Raven actually put out a decent game. The singleplayer campaign was a decent length (roughly twice the modern average, I would guess), had a tolerable (if cliched) storyline, quite a bit of atmosphere and plenty of variety. It was also (despite th
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Id has already said that they're going to shorten the period between games significantly, because their current timeframes aren't sustainable. This is their first game since Doom 3, which means RAGE has had a 7-year development time. They recognize that this is a problem and intend to avoid it in the future.
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You're overstating it a bit on Rage. It's an OK game with a good FPS engine behind it which was buggy on release but has since been fixed.
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Buggy on release, but since been fixed.
Nothing new here, move along.
This is standard operating practice in the deadline centric software industry.
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If you remove the deadline, you get something like Duke Nukem Forever. A game is never "done", so you have to make a cut somewhere.
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In order to meet a deadline, you should drop features, not quality.
I guess this is something that really determines how good the project lead is...
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The folks at Blizzard do have internal deadlines, they just don't communicate them to the outside.
Last year, their timeline was leaked [teamliquid.net], showing the release dates of several titles for the next few years.
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You don't really think Blizzard/Valve has no deadlines, do you? While they're notorious for being slow, that doesn't mean the pace they're taking isn't part of their release schedule.
As for HL2 EP3, that's turning into Duke Nukem Forever. They're likely not even working on it at all.
what's this function doing in here... (Score:2, Interesting)
when the comment says /* ... //FIXME: This is pretty much wrong. won't access data in most situations. ...
*/
The function in question is idInterpreter::GetRegisterValue in neo/game/script/Script_Interpreter.c
A lot more FIXMEs in other source files. Fun to read.
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That's just the nature of big projects like this (and I love reading them!). Most of them are insignificant which some higher up signed off on being not an issue. For that one it looks bad but it's just for debugging which isn't a priority for a shipping game.
I love the few projects where developers are swearing at each other. Haven't seen any yet in D3 but I'm still looking. I think the HL2 source code had some developers angry at each other in the comments.
Open Content Projects (Score:2)
I may or may not do it because I personally loath MD5's lack of precalculated normals.
Quake4 source is obviously not included so no OpenArena4. Probably something coopey and SPey would be in order (OMG A LINUX FIRST?)
The Dark Mod! (Score:5, Interesting)
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The real product as far as I'm concerned with iD games is as much the mods you get for free from the community as the game itself. There have been some amazing mods over the years.
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Hexen: Edge of Chaos:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hexen-edge-of-chaos [moddb.com]
Classic Doom 3:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/classic-doom-3 [moddb.com]
The Ruiner:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/ruiner [moddb.com]
In Hell:
http://doom3.filefront.com/file/;83607 [filefront.com]
Shambler's Castle:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/shamblers-castle [moddb.com]
Serengrove:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-iii/addons/sp-serengrove-tudor-town-of-doom [moddb.com]
Compiled Re:The Dark Mod! (Score:3)
I just tried to compile it and it squeeled and died. I use 64 bit Fedora so 32bit systems may 'just work'.
Do
scons NOCURL='1'
As it the compile fails add in the i686 development version of the library it's crying for. There is no static version of zlib so you'll have to grab the source, compile it and copy zlib.a to /usr/lib
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This fixed all the rendering problems I have been having with the GPL radeon driver.
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Excellent mod. All stealth/sneaker fans should check it out, especially Thief fans.
i think. (Score:5, Insightful)
considering id is now owned by besthesda, that this is going to be the last release of their engine source as they now have final say. and when was the last time they even acknowledged the existence of linux let alone treat pc gamer's well?
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Bethesda has treated PC gamers very well with the Fall Out and Elder Scrolls games. Releasing API's to allow fan made mods to their games are one of the reasons I enjoy playing them.
But like just about everyone else these days, if I get the game day 1 i'll be paying $60 to beta test for them.
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Bethesda has treated PC gamers very well with the Fall Out and Elder Scrolls games.
If by "very well" you meant "released buggy games and a few patches that fixed a small percentage of those bugs, and then left it to the community of players to fix everything else" then yes, you are correct.
For example, there is the Unofficial Oblivion Patch [tesnexus.com]
This mod is a joint effort to fix the vast amount of bugs currently existing in Oblivion v1.2.0.416, fixing over 2,200 bugs so far!
For another example, there was the Fallout 3 1.4 patch, issued three months after the previous patch, with folks compla
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When something crashes on exit, it's usually due to some form of memory leak. Those aren't always trivial to investigate and fix. It's not as brain dead simple as you seem to imply.
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Bethesda has treated PC gamers very well with the Fall Out and Elder Scrolls games.
If by "very well" you meant "released buggy games and a few patches that fixed a small percentage of those bugs, and then left it to the community of players to fix everything else" then yes, you are correct.
How is that different to the console versions (minus the option for community patches)? I'm currently playing Skyrim on the PS3, and it has crashed on me three times now, and had multiple visual and AI glitches inbetween, one of them forcing me to reload the last savegame so I'm able to progress in the quest. Console games should NEVER crash, the console makers usually reject games that exhibit this behavior (I wonder what happened there...?).
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Bethesda has treated PC gamers very well with the Fall Out and Elder Scrolls games
yes, tying vertical mouse sensitivity (horizontal doesnt change) to FPS timer is an excellent example of that!
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Sounds more like the opposite. This would be the first engine source release with ZeniMax having the final say.
Re:i think. (Score:4, Informative)
Now please mod me informative.
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>>Minor detail: id Software, as well as Bethesda Softworks, is owned by Zenimax Media. In other words, id and Bethesda are sister companies.
Zenimax = Bethesda. Look at the founders of it, then look at the owners of Bethesda. They're the same.
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>>>>Look at the founders of it, then look at the owners of Bethesda.
>>I don't usually do this, but you really need to go check wikipedia. Here's the link so you don't hurt yourself figuring out how google works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media [wikipedia.org]
>>Suffice it to say, you are confused and incorrect.
"ZeniMax Media was founded in 1999 by Bethesda Softworks founder Christopher Weaver and Robert A. Altman"
Pazow.
How does it feel to get owned by your own reference?
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Doesn't really mean much when Beth Softworks founded the company. You make it sound like Zenimax came in and bought Beth Softworks which isn't the case. They simply created Zenimax to do all the legal mumbo jumbo and keep Beth Softworks out of the press when they sue people.
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This is the third code release since the Zenimax acquisition (the first being the DOOM Classic iOS source and the second being the Enemy Territory source).
Also, just prior to the Zenimax acquisition they released Wolfenstein 3D Classic on iOS, a port which would not be possible (or at least nearly as easy) had it not been for open source. Someone took the Wolfenstein 3D source and the Quake 2 source and combined them to make an OpenGL port of Wolfenstein 3D. Carmack used this for a base. He also used prBoom
Some neat projects (Score:3)
http://rampancy.net/reviews/pathwaysredux [rampancy.net]
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Useless (Score:2, Interesting)
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It's not removed, it's been reimplemented in a slightly more inefficient way to dodge patent issues.
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What would happen if the offensive code was simply commented out, allowing downloaders to easily add the offending code back in?
The technique is well known, I am sure there will be a patch. Actually, it would be a lot more interesting to shadow mapping added. I would not be surprised at all. Again the techniques are well known.
iodoom3 (Score:5, Interesting)
If anyone is interested I've created iodoom3 [iodoom3.org] to follow on from the ioquake3 project [ioquake3.org] my team put together.
Let me know what you'd like to see in a modernized Doom 3 Engine!
Porting games to Linux (Score:3)
I've not checked out the source yet - but I assume it can be compiled for linux since there was a Doom 3 version.
This brings me to another question - Are there any commercial games out there also using the same engine that could now be ported to Linux?
Obviously this would involve some work and use of "legally owned" data files etc.
This could be really good news for gaming on alternative platforms
N...
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The only other games that use this engine that I know of are Quake 4, Prey and ETQW, all of whom have Linux versions available already. Wolfenstein 2008 and Brink use modified versions of the engine with different renderers, so they shouldn't be compatible.
Re:Can I learn how to program the GPU from the sou (Score:5, Insightful)
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To the gurus,
Is it possible to learn how to program the GPUs from the source?
Thank you !
That's a very broad question, do you want to do general purpose computations on the GPU or use the GPU for custom shading effects in the graphics pipeline of an application/game?
Your best bet is probably some tutorials on CUDA or OpenCL for GPGPU and Cg, GLSL or HLSL for shading.
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How about just doing some tutorials [gamedev.net]? Those ones are pretty old of course, but they're what I used when I was messing around with 3D graphics as a teenager.
Re:Can I learn how to program the GPU from the sou (Score:4, Informative)
The main graphics coder at my job recommends A trip through the Graphics Pipeline 2011 [wordpress.com] for everyone that wants to do something graphics related today. (Actually he says it's a must read for all programmers, but I think that's a bit strong...)
It's a bit windows-centric, but I think most of it translates to OpenGL since it's focused on what the hardware of today can do.
Re:Can I learn how to program the GPU from the sou (Score:5, Informative)
I've worked extensively with the Quake 1 and 2 sources (I ported them both to Pocket PC, which required rewriting a lot of the computationally expensive routines from floating point to fixed point math, as the ARM processors of that era did not have a FPU). I can say that no, you're not going to learn anything that way. The code has few if any comments at all, the routines are optimized, the data structures are optimized, tons of preprocessing of data happens both at the content level and during load time, plus any other trick Carmack could throw in there to increase performance. Unless you wanting to follow the path of execution as it relates to a specific data set or type of rendering, just to see the exact techniques used (obviously knowing specifically what you are looking for) then you're not going to learn that way.
Re:Shadow clarification (Score:5, Informative)