The Dark Mod 2.0 Standalone: Id Tech 4 GPL Yields a Free Thief-a-Like Game 98
An anonymous reader writes "After nine years of development, The Dark Mod is now a standalone game. Thief fans can now enjoy over 60 fan made missions which capture the essence of the Thief 1 / 2 games. Originally created as a reaction to Thief 3; with the upcoming release of Thief 4, many are comparing what was done here (a faithful extension of the old gameplay) to what Eidos has shown thus far. Can a little Doom 3 mod compete against a blockbuster AAA title? Should we even compare them?"
All code in the The Dark Mod is GPLv3+, and the art assets are all CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 Unported which means it, unfortunately, cannot be distributed by even Debian. Still, an impressive feat!
"by even Debian" (Score:5, Informative)
cannot be distributed by even Debian
I think that should say "cannot be distributed by entities that require commercial-use permission, like Debian." Debian has very strict rules on what it will redistribute, not because it must have those rules, but because it chooses to.
The -NC option prevents anyone from taking The Dark Mod's assets and publishing them in a commercial game. This annoys some pure-freedom-loving folks (like the Debian project and RMS) because they feel it's important that information be free for anyone to use in any way. On the other hand, for the "it's my work, so it's my choice" crowd, the -NC option ensures that nobody can copy their work and make a profit.
Debian's choice is theirs to make, as is any other distributor's, and has nothing to do with The Dark Mod. There's no reason to put such pointless slant in a summary.
Re:"by even Debian" (Score:5, Insightful)
cannot be distributed by even Debian
I think that should say "cannot be distributed by entities that require commercial-use permission, like Debian." Debian has very strict rules on what it will redistribute, not because it must have those rules, but because it chooses to.
The -NC option prevents anyone from taking The Dark Mod's assets and publishing them in a commercial game. This annoys some pure-freedom-loving folks (like the Debian project and RMS) because they feel it's important that information be free for anyone to use in any way. On the other hand, for the "it's my work, so it's my choice" crowd, the -NC option ensures that nobody can copy their work and make a profit.
Debian's choice is theirs to make, as is any other distributor's, and has nothing to do with The Dark Mod. There's no reason to put such pointless slant in a summary.
"by even Debian" is just dumb as it makes it appear Debian has the lowest standards when the reverse is true.
And you should consider learning just a little about Debian and Debian repositories. There's nothing to stop the game being distributed by Debian in the non-free repo except maybe the willingness of some one to package it.
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Did you reply to the wrong post or something? AFAICT, the AC did not make the assumptions you claim, and he/she was right.
"by even Debian" is just dumb as it makes it appear Debian has the lowest standards when the reverse is true.
And you should consider learning just a little about Debian and Debian repositories. There's nothing to stop the game being distributed by Debian in the non-free repo except maybe the willingness of some one to package it.
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...but those aren't my assumptions, either.
Debian requires commercial use permission by their choice. The main repository is stuff that is properly licensed for use anywhere, including commercial uses, so that's why -NC is not suitable for inclusion. The GPL (which represents RMS's views fairly well) explicitly allows commercial use, by allowing any price for the software.
As I recall, there was fairly recently a court case establishing that GPL software is always commercial, in that there is "economic gain"
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I've always thought that was a bit of an odd position. I mean, I think malaria should be eradicated. Am I therefore a hypocrite for thinking that malaria vaccine is a good thing?
Then again, I guess I'm not in the malaria vaccine business...
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A more appropriate analogy is to be a hypocrite for pushing a law requiring all known malaria to be destroyed, including the samples used for vaccine work.
Copyright is the legal framework for a person who creates something to have some degree of control over it. With no copyright, it's completely legal to take any work and do anything with it. With copyright laws, it's still possible to do anything with anything, but you have to have the author's permission. That's where licenses come in. The license allows
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That word: I do not think it means what you think it means. Merriam-Webster [merriam-webster.com] defines hypocrisy as follows:
According to that definition, I don't see anything hypocritical in your analogy. In fact t
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I guess I'm dealing with a first-class pedant here.
In the malaria example, I felt is was unnecessary to say that what you feel is that eradication of malaria as a disease. Vaccine research is a vital part of that effort, so to destroy lab samples before the job is done is akin to shooting oneself in the foot.
Yes, eschewing copyright gives us certain abilities, but that serves little purpose. To make decompilation more difficult, cautious vendors will turn to obfuscation, encryption, and compression techniqu
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I strive to be clear. Perhaps if you did the same, you would find me less pendantic.
And at the risk of being pedantic, you didn't say anything about destroying the lab samples before eradication. Although even if you had made that stipulation, it still wouldn't indicate hypocrisy. A foolish extremeism, maybe, but
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GPL has done great things
Indeed. It wasn't its technical merits that made the Linux kernel what it is today, it was copyleft. That's why copyleft is popular (the 'herd mentality', as you put it). I don't think there's a 'lowest common denominator' issue here really, unless you're referring to over-strict copyleft.
GPL doesn't stop anyone from releasing code MIT/Apache/BSD/etc, but the most common code is GPL, so if you want to contribute to what is popular, then you pay the price of not having truly free.
Right, but that's the point - copyleft'ed software can 'snowball' in a way copycenter'ed software can't, precisely because no-one is allowed to release a closed fork. Compare FreeBSD vs Linux.
I think it was Stallman who pu
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But life itself is a game.
Re:"by even Debian" (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, for the "it's my work, so it's my choice" crowd, the -NC option ensures that nobody can copy their work and make a profit.
It also ensures that the copyright holders can walk up to any non-trivial entity with non-zero assets (like Debian) and shake it down for cash or creative control, regardless of whether the entity is distributing anything "commercially". A fear of lawsuit will be more than enough to censor legitimate uses by entities that are not equipped for a legal battle. Every piece of non-free software is a liability both for the user and for the distributor, so Debian is wise to stay away.
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On the other hand, for the "it's my work, so it's my choice" crowd, the -NC option ensures that nobody can copy their work and make a profit.
It also ensures that the copyright holders can walk up to any non-trivial entity with non-zero assets (like Debian) and shake it down for cash or creative control, regardless of whether the entity is distributing anything "commercially". A fear of lawsuit will be more than enough to censor legitimate uses by entities that are not equipped for a legal battle. Every piece of non-free software is a liability both for the user and for the distributor, so Debian is wise to stay away.
Ah, it wouldn't be Monday in Slashdot without blind, cynical hatred for the sake of looking cool!
Or Tuesday, for that matter.
Wednesday tends to get pretty bleak, too.
And Thursday... look, does anyone who visits Slashdot do anything important? Or do we all just sit around and search HARD to find new and exciting things to be miserable about?
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No. GPLv3 mainly protects against software patents, where the -NC option prohibits commercial use.
With the -NC option, someone can still hold a patent on an aspect of the software. Anyone, even non-profit and non-commercial entities, would then need separate permission to use the software (and redistribute it).
The GPLv3 includes that extra permission, but doesn't have the restriction on commercial use. It's completely legal to take GPLv3 software and redistribute it for profit, and not have to worry (much)
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The license restrictions are inherited from some of the assets we acquired from other vendors (texture sites, etc). Since there is no way to track down all the contributors, any commercial use of the mod could not be reconcilable. Plus, a non-commercial license ensures less risk for Eidos (et all) coming after the mod even though we do not infringe on their IP.
The "non-commercial" clause is overrated (Score:2)
I think a lot of people just reflexively tack the "noncommercial" clause on there without thinking about it, because exactly as you say, they figure "nobody will make money off my work this way".
The "Share Alike" clause all by itself should prevent any profit abuse, while allowing (for example) someone to charge $0.10 to cover the cost of burning the CD with the creative-commons work on it, or in the case of music it would allow a restaurant to play the work as background music for their guests (but require
Re:The "non-commercial" clause is overrated (Score:5, Interesting)
Technically, ND and NC are both Non-Free.
ND because it defeats the entire purpose of sharing - that people can get inspired or use your work in their work, as long as they incorporate the other license terms.
SA is perfectly fine - if the music gets incorporated in that blockbuster movie, well, share away!
NC is thornier and also non-Free in that it restricts usage in ways that are potentially unintended, including putting the content up on a for-pay website. Like YouTube - perhaps you have a blog that you create content for and use a bit of music to. You put it up NC because it's a hobby, then you start making money off it (get popular enough an YouTube will split profits with you). Damn, that just violated the terms on the music you've been using forever!
It's not unusual that the CC folks have been getting a bit of pressure to remove ND and NC - if you really et down to it, ND+NC is only a minor variation away from "all rights reserved", so it's misleading to say it's a "free" license. ND violates the whole purpose CC because it's a "look but don't touch", and NC is so tightly worded to basically become practically useless - and a huge source of potential violations if you decide to distribute your software incorporating NC artwork and some commercial site picks it up for mirroring and such.
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Actually, in Germany anything with ads is considered commercial for example. So if you put a mirror on a site where you also have your personal blog with ads, you'd be in violation. And that's one of the more clear areas, there is a huge grey area with courts potentially considering anything you do full-time "commercial", no matter how much money you might lose.
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After reading your commentary, I think it means more that "this content is afraid of money," than "all rights reserved."
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the nc clause isn't used tightly enough.
that is, any site offering the download and that has ads should not use any of it... or can't be mentioned on a commercial magazine with screenshots and shit like that? if being strictly non commercial art.
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Screenshots in a magazine mentioning it sound like a clear case of fair use (in the US), this is completely allowed with any license pretty much.
Slashdotted link text (Score:5, Informative)
Free, Standalone TDM 2.0 Now Available!
Posted on October 8, 2013 by Springheel
We at Broken Glass Studios are happy to announce the release of TDM 2.0, a free, open-source, completely standalone stealth game!!
Standalone: First and most importantly, The Dark Mod is now completely standalone, which means you no longer need to own Doom3 to play it! We have spent a tremendous amount of time and energy replacing all the sounds, textures, particle effects, and models that we had been using. Hopefully this will open up a whole new audience of people who didnâ(TM)t want to have to purchase a different game in order to try The Dark Mod.
In addition to going standalone, the following improvements have been made:
AI Improvements: There have been lots of additions and fixes to AI behaviour; characters will now greet each other more regularly, and will properly call for help when theyâ(TM)re in trouble. Guards can now hear slightly better, and we have included a new AI Vision slider to the menu, so the player can adjust how sensitive they want AI vision to be. Characters react to bodies in more varied ways now. A bug that made AI very easy to kill has been fixed. Archers will draw melee weapons if the player gets too close. Guards will turn towards doors that open unexpectedly. There are new vocals for specific situations, like when guards are getting shot at and canâ(TM)t see their opponent. Searching behaviour has been improved. Plenty of old bugs, like the one where AI would sometimes attack with an empty fist, have been fixed.
New Gameplay: AI can now hear collapsing bodies, especially if the body is wearing plate mail and falls on a hard surface. No longer will a guard stand oblivious while his friend collapses to the ground two feet behind him. The player will have to give some thought to where they take down opponents if there are other guards in the area.
Audio Improvements: In addition to replacing dozens of Doom3 sounds, two new vocal sets have been added to the game. Footstep sounds have been improved. Big changes have been made to the sound propagation system that will allow mappers a lot more control over how players hear sound; for example, mappers can now make doors block different amounts of sound depending on their thickness, or can control how much sound passes through windows or small holes.
Graphical Improvements: You should notice a number of improvements to some character models, especially the skeleton, townsfolk, and beggar characters. Arrows will now leave blood-stains.
There have been plenty of other bug-fixes, like removing the ability to hide in the shadow of an object youâ(TM)re carrying (no more sneaking under a crate umbrella). See the full change-log here.
Updates to Missions:
Because of the removal and replacement of Doom3 assets, some missions that used them are no longer compatible with TDM 2.0. About two dozen missions have updated .pk4s to fix these issues. New players can ignore this, but if youâ(TM)re playing missions that you downloaded before 2.0, you may have trouble trying to run them. Most are fine, but a few missions will just crash while loading, and others will load but will have odd visual problems. It is highly recommended that you delete all previously downloaded missions after updating to 2.0!
Going standalone has been a mammoth undertaking. There were literally hundreds of assets that needed to be replaced, and around seventy maps that had to be checked to see whether any of those replacements broke anything. Weâ(TM)ve been testing for months, but itâ(TM)s almost certain that we missed something, somewhere. If you see a black texture, a model buried in the floor, or something else unusual in a map, please let us know. If it was caused by 2.0 changes, weâ(TM)ll make sure we fix it in the next update.
To update your TDM installation, simply run the tdm_update.exe file in your darkmod folder. Your darkmod folder no longer needs to sit under Doom3, an
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Also readable here [googleusercontent.com].
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At some point you get sick of playing in the original engine(s). The games were great, but they are showing their age.
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I've recently started going through the "extra" half-life games again, namely Blue Shift. The low-poly graphics are pretty distracting now. I've been spoiled.
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On the other hand, it is kinda fun to load up an old game and crank the settings all the way up, turn on all the eye candy, and still get hundreds of frames per second.
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The renderer was written in 1995, game released 1998. Your comment is entirely useless in this context.
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Oh. I was talking about the Thief series specifically, which this is a modern "remake" of. Go back to the start of the thread where the idiot made the comment about buying it already? I said some of us may not be able to tolerate the age of the engine anymore. From the start -we- have been talking about those engines specifically.
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Try a few -thousand- FPS. [nothings.org] There's not much eye candy to turn on...
I get the feeling you (and Black LED) know nothing about Thief 1 and 2?
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What is your problem, anyhow? You seem angry. Did it occur to you that we might not be talking about those games specifically?
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No, it didn't. Which clears quite a bit up. I thought you were talking about the original two games, and then the mentions of eye candy and such made it sound like you didn't know anything about them. Apologies for the confusion.
Enjoy the link, though.
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On the other hand, it is kinda fun to load up an old game and crank the settings all the way up, turn on all the eye candy, and still get hundreds of frames per second.
That's because Doom 3 just renders everything in black.
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Yup, just reinstalled T2 and updated to 1.19, and albeit wide screen and high res, it does show its age. But Thief 3, albeit very pretty, was not as difficult. So Dark Mod might bridge that gap.
Re:Is their site down? (Score:5, Funny)
Interesting. A site is listed in a Slashdot article, and is so overrun with traffic that it's inaccessible. We should call this the Reddit Effect!
here's a torrent (Score:5, Informative)
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/9024163/THE_DARK_MOD_Version_2.0_-_Standalone_Release [thepiratebay.sx]
Make sure to rename the folder containing the files to "darkmod" for now, until it is fixed in 2.01.
Missions can be found on the website or the in-game downloader. Or this torrent [thepiratebay.sx] I guess. Have fun!
Re:here's a torrent for UK Censored peeps (Score:2, Informative)
For most users this will work:
http://pirateproxy.net/torrent/9024163/THE_DARK_MOD_Version_2.0_-_Standalone_Release
For Virgin and other shitty ISPs that illegally block websites and censor what you can view online:
http://malaysiabay.org/torrent/9024163/THE_DARK_MOD_Version_2.0_-_Standalone_Release
Thief! (Score:4, Informative)
Thief Gold, Thief 2 and Thief: Deadly Shadows are available DRM-free on GOG.com. Those plus DarkLoader for fan mission and you have a virtually unlimited amount of gameplay.
Go get it, you taffers!
Bah! (Score:4, Funny)
I mean, yeah, it'll have gameplay that would make calling it "Battlefield: Sneaking of Honor" more honest, and actually-useful arrows will be consumable DLC items you purchase with real money, and you'll have to install Origin for it to work, and the game will demand the right to post promotional messages on any and all social media accounts you have access to; but it'll be AAA, man!
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EA isn't developing Thief 4.
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it's square-enxxyxyyxyx.
the company that did the deus ex reboot. soo.. it's probably going to be ok maybe.
Re:CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 Unported? (Score:4, Insightful)
Here you are [creativecommons.org], your highness.
I don't know why Debian can't package it, but I think it has to do with the fact that Debian is extraordinarily picky about licensing.
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The non-commercial licensing violates the first of the Debian Free Software Guidelines [debian.org], so Debian won't package it.
The license of a Debian component may not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license may not require a royalty or other fee for such sale.
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I wonder if Debian would consider asking for a wavier. It's in the license - any part of it can be dropped with a wavier from the holder.
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Debian had, at least in the case of Firefox, avoided Debian-specific waivers as that would make the life of downstream distributions like Ubuntu hard.
A Debian-specific waiver wouldn't be acceptable under guideline #8.
8. License Must Not Be Specific to Debian
The rights attached to the program must not depend on the program's being part of a Debian system. If the program is extracted from Debian and used or distributed without Debian but otherwise within the terms of the program's license, all parties to whom the program is redistributed should have the same rights as those that are granted in conjunction with the Debian system.
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Debian had a waiver for Firefox. There was a few years between the first Iceweasel project, and the modern reincarnation when Debian shiped Firefox (2004-2006), but Mozilla changed the rules so that Debian was no longer allowed to support and maintain stable versions of Firefox, and this they could not get a waiver for.
Deb package (Score:1)
This does not, however, prevent others from packing the .deb and putting up a repository that you can add to your apt config (or just download/install the .deb for that matter).
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Grow a neckbeard or GTFO.
can't wait (Score:2)
Unfortunately I had not had to run tdm_update.exe previously, so I had no mirror data saved away. So, now I have to wait for the site to come back up so I can update my installation :(
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Moddb Mirror (Score:3, Informative)
Thanks from The Dark Mod (Score:5, Interesting)
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thanks for the work! i plan to try it out soon. I played the original Thief years ago and look forward to trying it out again in your format and with user maps etc.