Dad Makes His Kid Play Through All Video Game History In Chronological Order 222
An anonymous reader writes Andy Baio, aka @waxpancake, indy video game enthusiast and founder of the XOXO conference and other cool stuff, conducted a weird/cool experiment on his four-year-old. Andy taught him about gaming by making him play and master all of the old video games and gaming systems in the exact order they were actually released. In other words, this 21st century kid learned gaming the same way the generation that grew up in the 1970s and 1980s experienced them, but in compressed time. From the article: "This approach to widely surveying classic games clearly had an impact on him, and influenced the games that he likes now. Like seemingly every kid his age, he loves Minecraft. No surprises there. But he also loves brutally difficult games that challenge gamers 2–3 times his age, and he’s frighteningly good at them. His favorites usually borrow characteristics from roguelikes: procedurally-generated levels, permanent death, no save points."
Oh, really? (Score:5, Funny)
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Took me five years as a teenager to master the Sargon II chess game for the Commodore 64 on the hardest difficulty level. I'll like to see a four-year-old do that in less time.
I haven't played it myself; but they say that Robot Odyssey [wikipedia.org] will either break your pitiful hominid brain like reject before The Monolith, turn you into a hardcore programmer geek for life, or turn you against any computer game that isn't Medal of Halo Gears of Assault 3.
Re:Oh, really? (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't played it myself; but they say that Robot Odyssey [wikipedia.org] will either break your pitiful hominid brain like reject before The Monolith, turn you into a hardcore programmer geek for life, or turn you against any computer game that isn't Medal of Halo Gears of Assault 3.
I played and beat Robot Odyssey when I was in 6th grade. It was in the bargain bin at Radio Shack. Mom thought it might be fun. The box said it was from The Learning Company, which was an instant turn off, but I gave it a shot anyway and am glad I did!
Crappy graphics but it was easily the best game I've ever played, and may ever play. The way the game let you "walk into" and wire up robots with logic gates was pure genius. There were some really tough problems, solving them was so rewarding. The Learning Company actually sent me a plaque for having completed it, I wish I had kept it.
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Yup. The headline should read "A Man Whose Life Is Over Desires Attention From Schmucks On The Internet And Gets It.".
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Where does it say the kid is made to master every single game ever made?
How about just TRYING a good bunch of the established classics as a kind of fast-forward through gaming history?
I just hope he's spared Superman 64 ...
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Nerd Point of Contention (Score:3)
N64 was not the beginning of the "3D era on consoles." That would be Sega 32x, Sega CD, or at the very least Playstation.
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Brrrrzzzt wrong. The N64 brought analog control and independent camera movement to the console race. Those are two critical ingredients for the '3D era'. If you'd like to point to the PC, however, you may be able to regain footing with the point you're trying to make.
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The N64 was a significant step forward but it wasn't the "beginning". As with most things it was a gradual process with various milestones along the way. Custom 3D chips in 16 bit consoles for games like Virtua Racing and Starfox were probably the first big 3D console games. Before that there were some pretty good home ports of games like Hard Drivin'.
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The Dual-Analog that became the Dual-shock, yes. but not the Analog joystick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... [wikipedia.org]
So technically the PSone had an analog controller before the N64, though it wasn't a Dual-shock.
I don't count the neGcon because it only had one analog axis and a few analog buttons.
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I don't see any camera controls there, I don't think you have an apples-to-apples comparison here. It's also worth pointing out that even if it did work that way, it didn't usher in an 'era'. Nintendo was the one that drove that, hence the mad scramble for Sony and Sega to copycat the controller and integrate it into their next round of hardware.
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Having camera controls is not the definition of the 3D console era. In fact, camera controls were quickly abandoned as annoying and unworkable once programmers figured out how to do better automatic cameras. For example, the Dreamcast didn't have separate camera controls - the d-pad and analogue stick were on the same side and only one could be used at a time.
Also, early Playstation and Saturn games at camera controls via the shoulder buttons. Flight simulators had them back in the 1980s. The N64's idea of
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I'm using camera controls in every game I have played on the PS4. I have no idea what you're talking about, that concept is alive and well because... making games in 3d requires it.
Also the camera controls on the flight simulator are not the same thing. You don't use the camera in a flight simulator to tell the game which way you're going.
I'm not even sure why we're arguing about this. The N64 came along and everybody else quickly changed direction. Sorry.
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The funny thing is, the PlayStation controller is very much a clone of the SNES pad layout. All equivalent buttons in the same places. They just added some extra shoulder buttons, jammed in analog sticks within thumb reach, and then added vibration.
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The 'C' meant 'Camera' and 'soon' meant 1997. Oh and if Sony changed mid stream... ;)
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Anyone else here play Castle Master? I had it on the C64 myself, but here it is in full 3D on the Amiga https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Atari Jaguar? (Score:2)
anyone, anyone, Bueller?
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I can't think of the name of it off of the top of my head, but I remember a tank battles game for the Macintosh, playable on the LC and other System 7-based Macs that used 3d rendering. It was already installed on the computers when I found it in 1991, so it might date back even earlier than Catacomb...
Honestly I never was very impressed with conso
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if "computer games" count then consoles have nothing to offer on 3d games in time line of firsts.
elite was released a _decade_ before star fox after all and elite offers a true free space 3d environment(and filled polygon versions of elite were released afaik half a decade before starfox).
microprose (and even microsoft) released multiple polygon 3d simulation games for computers in the '80s. by 1990 the list of polygon 3d games is so long that the kid wouldn't have had time to finish them at all(or wouldn't
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Star Fox also wasn't a 3D game, it was a shooter on rails. Dirt Trax FX would be a better example, but we are talkimg about eras and not firsts, here.
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I argue by saying yes, yes it was. Mario64 was the first fully fleshed-out 3d world ever in a video game that didn't have you running around on a set path. You could go up, down, left, right, forward and backward as you pleased
Jumping Flash! on the PSone predates Mario64. Hell, even SNES Wolfenstein and DOOM and Zero Tolerance on the Genesis predate Mario64.
So yes, yes it was the beginning of the 3d era on consoles.
no, it wasn't.
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Had that game. It was shit. It wasn't really 3D as we know it. There were no polygons or anything - all sprites. It had the hokey 3D glasses thing, but I never got that to work right.
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there's a port of elite to NES.
I find it pretty fucking hard for the boy to play through all of videogame history. he wouldn't have the time.
let's just say that only playing through ultima 1,2,3,4,5,6 would take quite a bit. throw elite in there for another quite a bit.
Making him? (Score:4, Interesting)
Andy taught him about gaming by making him play and master all of the old video games and gaming systems in the exact order they were actually released.
So he's forcing his kid to play these games? I wonder if he ever has to tell his son that he has to beat Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles before he's allowed to do his homework...
Re:Making him? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The way to 'force' a child to play the limited examples of games of the era in the order they came out is logically only offer the games to play in that order. The child carrying the genetics of the parent and as is the norm in humanity, will want to play the games and as a matter of historical record, children of early computer gaming eras did in fact enjoy playing the games. The big difference between earlier computer games and current computer games is the shift in focus from game play to graphics. So t
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Would you question his actions as much if instead of "forcing his kid to play these games", he "forced his kid to read these [age appropriate] books" in the order they were published?
I read it as the order which the games and systems were presented were enforced to follow a specific order of introduction, not that
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XOXO huh? (Score:3)
The same conference that tells people to "listen and believe" and suggests that people should use block lists to create their own social isolation circle?
Yeah, already planning this. (Score:2)
Maybe with more of a PC bent, but I'm not sure how I'd pull that off without a big stash of old hardware. Probably worth it for Doom and Quake, but the real gem will be text adventure games. Sitting on my dad's lap while he played them was a big part of how I learned to read.
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The problem is Doom and Quake were really intended for 14 year olds and older. They were rated 18+ if I recall. I don't think I'd have my 4 year old playing those.
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Atari 2600 - Raiders of the Lost Ark (Score:3)
this was probably the hardest game I played in the old days - it took me a month to figure out all it's secrets and figure out how to get the Ark of the Covenant - (the final tricky point was snagging a parachute on a branch that dragged you into the mesa the Ark was buried in) -
but man when I beat it - holy crap - also the first Atari game I recall where you needed to play it with both joysticks - one to select items and one to move the guy
RB
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I remember it as one of the few Atari 2600 games you could actually BEAT instead of just being an endless game with a goal to get a high score.
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Gotta love those tsetse flies and humming the snake charming tune...like you will be now that I mentioned it.
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I tried playing that one without the benefit of a manual. I didn't even know what I was looking at, to know what things would kill you or were safe - I remember reloading and just walking around waiting to see if/when/how I died. I'm pretty sure I didn't know I needed to use a second joystick, so that may have made things much worse. In my memory it's the most frustrating Atari game I ever played, and this is coming from a guy who beat and replayed E.T.
Nitpick on the linked article (Score:2)
At the top of the article, it shows an Atari 2600 in front of a TV. Displayed on the TV is Pac Man. But it isn't the 2600 version. It looks like the 800 version, or possibly the 5600 version (which was only slightly different).
Mixing up the graphics like that is just wrong.
Especially when the 2600 version of Pac Man was notorious for being so horribly bad. If only it had looked like that.
Hangly-Man (Score:2)
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i think he used a plug-n-play console.
all the games are pretty kid friendly.
and definitely not ALL of videogame history. it's just kid action games. not even a big bunch of them.
the title is faulty and frankly stupid in context of the original article. kids don't mind NES graphics and for 4 year old playing COD would be confusing anyways. none of the games mentioned take a significant time to finish.
Questionable? (Score:2, Insightful)
He is teaching his kid skills which have some but limited value in actual life. Perhaps reaction times, maybe some cognitive development yes, but it's not life. He's channeling his little boy down a narrow funnel of gameland when the whole world is still full of wonder. At that age, he could be absorbing human languages. He could be playing with lego. He could be learning any number of things, but even better - he could be playing with other little kids and developing essential social skills - OUTSIDE!
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Languages are the most important thing that one could learn at that age. It will never be easier to learn them, and monoglots have absolutely no idea what they are missing.
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Not to mention that they end up talking about ethics in game journalism and "SJWs" and then you have to drown them.
Re:Questionable? (Score:5, Insightful)
We didn't let our son play video games at home until he was in second grade -- of course it's nearly impossible to avoid them at other people's houses without moving to a remote village without electricity. Consequently gaming became an obsession with him. When we visited relatives he'd spend all his time talking with his older cousins about games pretty much from the time he could talk. In kindergarten he started taking books out of the library on beating video games. By the time he was in first grade he was the neighborhood gaming consultant: kids would ask their moms to invite him over because they were stuck. But he couldn't play games at home.
Finally I realized that forbidding games was just making him more obsessed (it's a family trait he gets from both parents). We bought a console and it was the best Christmas EVER. He quickly settled down to a pattern where he gets a new game, plays it relentlessly for a few days until he figures out all the interesting ways to beat it, then sets it aside. Now he's a teenager, and gaming is just another thing he does. It's *important* to him, but if you average out his playing time it adds up to maybe four hours a week. The time he plays the most is when his older sister comes back from college. They'll play through a stack of old games, like it's their way of reconnecting.
People worry too much about parenting issues like this. You have to be prepared to be tough if an actual problem arises, but most of the time you're better off relaxing and seeing what happens. Think of it as "agile parenting". You don't have to foresee everything, you just have to be on top of what actually happens.
Can you imagine this dialogue? (Score:5, Funny)
"DAAAAAAD, can I please do my homework? Just an hour?"
"Not before you're done with Donkey Kong!"
Baseball parents (Score:5, Insightful)
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I was thinking he sounds more like the kind of parent who forces his kid to do _________, so the parent can relive their glory years and bask in the reflected glory. Baseball, beauty pageants, dance, piano, football, video games... it the act that matters, not the activity.
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Well, some kids actually like that -- maybe not talking over the coach, but the practice and camp and such. I had one of each, one who hated organized activities and another who liked them.
And we *did* force both our kids to stick with some things they didn't want to do. In some case it was about commitment -- you asked to join the soccer team, you can't quit just because the team is losing. In other cases it was parental judgment about what's best -- I know you don't like swim lessons but you're going to s
Any one know? (Score:3)
I'd like to know how the kid fared on E.T. for the Atari 2600.
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That would constitute child abuse of the first order. No one should be forced to endure what we did in the 80's. No one.
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I'd like to know how the kid fared on E.T. for the Atari 2600.
He was quoted as saying, "This game belong is a trash pit"
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I'd like to know how the kid fared on E.T. for the Atari 2600.
It sounds like the Atari 2600 got mostly glossed over, which I think was an error on the Dad's part in the way he conducted his experiment. He started the kid off with "real" arcade games then tried to graduate to the 2600. While that's chronologically correct, it doesn't match the actual experience we had as kids. We only got to enjoy arcade games on a limited basis (when going out to arcades/pizza parlors). Arcade game plays were limited by quarters. The 2600 had woefully inferior versions of ga
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While that's chronologically correct
Actually, it's not. the oldest arcade game he used was was from 1979, the newest arcade game from 1983. The 2600 was released in 1977. So that would be like starting out with PS2 games and then moving to PS1 games.
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I had E.T. when I was around 6. I actually liked it a lot, especially the AMAZING splash screen. I was able to complete it, too.
E.T. got a third-party service pack (Score:2)
Not quite... (Score:4, Insightful)
Andy taught him about gaming by making him play and master all of the old video games and gaming systems in the exact order they were actually released.
Part of that sentence is definitely wrong and part of it is definitely misleading. Because he skipped straight from the Atari 2600 to the NES, and then to the Super NES, and then to the N64. No Coleco, no Genesis, etc. So not all the consoles, and from what i can tell not even all the games for each console. And i can't see any indication that they're being played strictly in order either.
So it's a heavily curated list of games, which is a good thing because the full list would be impossible to do, and it seems to be in strict chronological order in terms of consoles but only vague order within each generation.
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If you recall, the nintendo offerings were the most popular. Far more popular than turbo grafix and sega genesis. Well i guess some neighbourhoods were genesis neighbourhoods but you wouldn't want to spend a lot of time there.
Till the playstation, nintendo was where it was at so I am not surprised. Its a grandiose claim, "all video game history" so I would expect he would not be on a sega saturn or dreamcast (god rest its soul)
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Still, going from the Atari 2600 straight to the NES is like going from a PC XT straight to a Pentium. The guy skipped too many systems and too many games. He could have limited the list to the best 3~5 games per system.
Let's hear it for permanent death! (Score:2)
Re:Let's hear it for permanent death! (Score:4, Insightful)
What? You get to start another game after your character dies? Where's the skill in that? The whole program should be wiped after the first death and you should never be able to play it again! It's much more realistic.
No actionmaxx - not every console (Score:2)
Father's a liar, kid's prolly gonna grow up to be one, too.
Wait what? (Score:3)
He has a 4yr old playing these games?
His 4yr old plays mine craft?!?!
His 4yr old can handle WASD input?
I keep hearing about kids loving minecraft, but every time I ask if they have actually played the game I find out they are simply watching Youtube videos of funny British guys narrating their games. It seems the narrators are the real stars and the games incidental. I've got a 7yr old and he, nor anyone in his class can actually play the game.
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I'll answer my own question... in typical fassion the summary is completely wrong:
My son Eliot was born in 2004
...maths...
He's 10 or 11
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And harassing women on Twitter, which appears to have become the current primary activity of people who grew up in this millennium playing video games. Because ethics.
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The neighbor kid next door is, maybe 7?, He plays minecraft all the time. I have actually seen him play it.
Granted, he plays the android tablet version and not the PC version, but he still plays it.
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You mean something like this [wikipedia.org]?
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My four year old loves and plays Minecraft - its the PS3 version mostly but he has also played the PC version and had no real problem with WASD. He isn't bothered about any survival elements, just loves to build houses, railways, and muck around.
My 8 year old has also been playing it since he was 7 - on the PC and the PS3 - and never had any issues. As far as I'm aware most of his class plays it as well (although its been superseded by Terraria). He does watch a lot of these funny British guys but being Bri
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He has a 4yr old playing these games?
His 4yr old plays mine craft?!?!
His 4yr old can handle WASD input?
I keep hearing about kids loving minecraft, but every time I ask if they have actually played the game I find out they are simply watching Youtube videos of funny British guys narrating their games. It seems the narrators are the real stars and the games incidental. I've got a 7yr old and he, nor anyone in his class can actually play the game.
Whoah...so that SouthPark episode is a real thing?
I wish I had thought of this (Score:2)
My 10-year-old now only likes easy console shooters and shies away from any real gaming challenge. And he keeps begging me to get him Rated M games, because the rating is the only thing he cares about. Ugh.
Little League Dads (Score:2)
It sounds like another overbearing parent trying to relive his youth through his kid.
I know parents who are trying to force their kids to listen to the music they listened to, or play the sports they played, or go into the professional field they failed at. There's one kid who got pushed into pee-wee hockey at a very young age and ended up hating the sport (and his father, a little bit).
What is so hard about understanding that your children are actually individual human beings and not c
I'd love to do that (Score:2)
I have seven kids all homeschooled and we love to fire up Mame, and I've kept my Atari 2600 although they haven't gotten to play it yet and I need to bring it out of storage. And I love to have them go through interesting pieces of twentieth century history in chronological order - right now we're watching through old Disney and Warner Brothers cartoons together on Saturday mornings, in order. Next year they are going to watch all six Star Wars films in the order they were released, before we see Episode
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Oh, man, this guy and I were cut from the same OCD cloth. I know it just looking at his pictures of Atari 2600 game boxes all sorted first by box style and then alphabetized. I used to do that when I was a kid and when I finally get the thing out of storage I'll bet a bunch of the games are alphabetized.
Get in line (Score:3)
Been there, still doing that that.
Waste of time on a 4 year old. I have bright 11+ yr olds who are only beginning to really get it. Even while they have stuff in the TF2 workshop. It's both sad and hard to see that they, too, are distracted by the 3D shiny instead of the gameplay diamond. But they're getting there.
Maybe not the right way, but close (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't really agree with this approach, it is like forcing somebody to watch all great sci-fi movies before he can go watch Interstellar. I do think they should watch all those great movies in good time and because they are great, they will still be fun/good to watch today.
The same with games, i've seen it with my own kids. The real gems from the 8bit NES / C64 era still stand their own. I never forced them on these, but the questions come anyway, if you know kids, they are always full of questions.
After playing mario galaxy, the question came if there are other mario games, at that point it is easy to introduce them to the past. I showed/played them through the whole history of Mario, starting with donkey kong (and showing donkey kong jr on my original savoured game&watch), going to mario bros (no, not 'super mario bros'), etc. Did they like all of them, no and i don't blame them, because some of them are not that great anymore. But the real good ones were still enjoyed and played (by them, by choice afterwards).
Games are part of our culture now, like art, books, music and movies. It would be cruel not to let them know the classics, but it is just as cruel to force-feed them.
No pinball?? (Score:2)
Come on that was really big back in the 80's, 90's and now is big again.
"All" of the old video games? (Score:2)
I'll bet he didn't make his kid play Spacewar! on a PDP-1.
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Check the comments on the Nethack article yesterday.
Re:permanent death? no save points? (Score:5, Insightful)
what games is he playing? In all of the RPGs that I have played my character resurrects at a graveyard or a save point. I can always continue my game with the same character. Yes, I am showing my age. lol
I hate the fact that "roguelike" just means "permadeath" now. That was the least interesting part of rogue/nethack/etc. To me, "roguelike" has always meant an exploration-focused RPG with a simple UI but complex play. I always savescummed anyhow. (Except in nethack. There I played real permadeath. When my character died the first time -- to a cheap kill -- I deleted the game and never played again).
I'd love to find an RPG with the depth and detail of rogue/nethack/angband/etc but with the same learn-as-you go vibe, where everything has more depth than it seems at first. (Wait - you can eat your kills? And there are so many different effects depending on what the critter was? Now I have to try every one! Everything was like that.)
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Nethack uses almost all key combinations, lower case, uper case and ctrl+key. And if you are playing Nethack without a keypad, you need to use vi style cursor movements. Not that I'm complaining, but not even vim forces you into sort of pain.
And don't make me start talking about Dwarf Fortress, were the game needs to be hacked to put some sense intro that micromanagement mess.
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In the MMO I'm currently playing, I have 120 useful taskbar slots, 14 weapon sets I actively switch between, and a combination of gear that's a freaking jigsaw puzzle to get all of the three dozen bonuses I need or want in the limited slots available, so I need to regularly swap equipped gear and keep all that straight in my head (and which is which on my taskbars). It's fun in it's way, but Rogue had a certain charm it lacks.
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You play the game you enjoy, and I'll play the game I enjoy, how about that?
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Gave up? You're just not hardcore enough if you kept playing after you died!
Seriously, you want to fight that 25-year-old fight? Should we also argue about VI vs EMACS? (BTW: EMACS!!!!! And Kirk could totally kick Pickard's ass, and then steal his girl!)
Re:In summary... (Score:5, Insightful)
In 1988 or whatever, while playing, and exchanging ideas with your friends, Zork was fun.
In 2014, with the internet and guides, its a massive exercise in self restraint not ruin the game for yourself.
In 2014, without the internet and guides, and without the benefit of even having friends playing and exchanging hints with, the game is all but impossible.
I recall spending weeks on end stuck in Kings Quest IV. And in Zork. And in Pyramid 2000. And countless other games. But if you kept at it and your friends were playing the same games, you'd eventually figure it out.
But IMO Internet + GameGuides etc have largely ruined that style of game.
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Anybody else remember the old Infocom hint books they published with invisible ink and markers to reveal the hints? They had questions for most major puzzles, and three levels of hints IIRC. You started with the vaguest hint and progressed until the last hint just told you how to do it, or close to it.
Great. Now I'm having a major Infocom nostalgia flashback. Thanks /.
Re: In summary... (Score:2)
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It rubs the lotion on its skin..
wait, I think I might have been playing different games.
(I lie, I was totally buying/playing anything infocom crapped out)
Re:In summary... (Score:4, Insightful)
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Eaten by a grue is the least of his worries. The father's more likely to get a visit by Child Protection Services.
Re:In summary... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Eaten by a grue is the least of his worries. The father's more likely to get a visit by Child Protection Services.
You know, I remember about, oh, two decades ago, discussions on misc.kids (this thing called Usenet... never mind, just go with it) wherein multiple parents (I assume they were parents...) were arguing, seriously, that TV-free households amounted to child abuse, because the children wouldn't be able to properly relate to children from households that allowed TV privileges.
And so, it's with some amusement that I hear now that requiring kids to play video games is tantamount to child abuse.
The headline says "dad makes his kid play through all video game history..." I personally took that to mean "you want to play a video game? Play this one. When you've mastered it, if you want to play a video game, play that one" and so on, which is different from whisssh-CRACK "Go right! Right you little bastard!" whissssh-CRACK "Left you twit! There, you lost level nine you worthless piece of garbage. Hold out your hands!" WHACK WHACK WHACK.
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Let me guess, your dad did not take you to a conference discussing circular reasoning.
back to the article "and we played through my collection of lo-fi gems like Asteroids, Kaboom!, Adventure, Combat, and (yes) E.T., but most didnâ(TM)t hold up well."
Asteroids not holding up well? TAKE THE SON AWAY FROM THIS GUY HE IS ILL.
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I didn't have Friday the 13th, but I still have my E.T. cart, and M*A*S*H and Porky's as well!
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Why it's fairy tales? because I say so, implied.
Why do I say so? because it is fairy tales.
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You moron.
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Assuming you are religious, and you do sound so - you are automatically anti-all other religions in the world.
LOL, no. That's, quite possibly, the stupidest thing I'll read on Slashdot this week. Where did you come up with that nonsense?
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Could have spent years on Apple ][ / C64 games.
Yeah, and that's just the load times from floppy.
Consoles will never match the likes of computer games from the 80s.
And vice versa, they had different strengths.
nothing beats games like Ultima Series, Bard's Tale, Wizardry, F-15 Strike Eagle, Oregon Trail, Karateka, , Lode Runner, Spy v Spy.
Don't you know all those games had console releases?
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Impossible Mission FTW.
Superman by First Star (Score:2)
Please tell me you did not make him play and master Superman 64 because if you did I'm calling DCFS.
Nintendo version or Commodore version [wikipedia.org]? There's a difference [youtube.com].