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Games Entertainment

Playstation 2 Recalled In Japan 146

Posted by CmdrTaco from the you-gotta-be-kidding-me dept.
silvergun writes: "According to FGNonline, the 1.25 million Playstation 2 units sold in Japan have been placed under a mandatory recall by Sony, due to the fact that they can play DVDs for territories other than they were intended. I'll say ouch for Sony." Update: 03/31 02:04 by CT : Several people noted that the recall was on the DVD Playing Software, not the actual PS2 hardware itself. Sorry about the confusion.
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Playstation 2 Recalled In Japan More

Playstation 2 Recalled In Japan

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  • Re:hahah (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Oh, big fat elephant's fanny.

  • Re:Something is amiss at the Circle-K, Ted (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Um, are Japanese 7-11s that different from the ones here in America? I certainly wouldn't expect to go to one here to buy or return electronic equipment of any kind -- might get a Frostie maybe, but certainly not a Playstation console.

    Yep, 7-11 is quite different in Japan. Japanese aren't comfortable giving credit cards out over the internet, hell, they aren't even comfortable using credit cards in general! Most all transactions are done in cash, even company payrolls. So 7-11 and other convenience stores like Lawson's have become centers for e-commerce. You order online, and then go pay at the corner store. Gateway uses this system, you order online but pay for the transaction in cash at Lawson's, then they forward payment and Gateway ships the computer from their factory.

  • Read the article.. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What it actually says is that the Driver CD that came with the PS2 is being recalled, not the actual unit itself.
  • Only because they slipped past the lawyers. Manufacturers don't sell them as non-regional models.

    They don't, but other, smaller companies figure out how to 'region hack' the players, mod them and sell them for an extra 100$ or so. They even back up the warranty too. www.dvdcity.com [dvdcity.com] has them, as well as many other sites. Look for 'code free'.
  • I don't think they can change the terms of the purchase later (i.e. refuse to offer the warranty services they were offering at the time of purchase).

    Oh, it's so funny. The same company that (among others) initiated the DeCSS fiasco, is shooting its own knee by releasing a DVD piracy tool.

  • How much is this really going to cost Sony?

    How many people are going to return their software/whatever so that they can no longer play DVDs from other regions?

    Not many I would say.
  • Are these type of things caused by copy protection or shitty discs?
    There's a difference?

    Yes, I know that's a borderline troll, but now I'll try for off-topic. The college where I got my "Intructional Multimedia" degree ordered around a dozen educational Quark Express licences for use in one of the labs. Each licence came with an ADB dongle so the software would work. After one month no dongles were left. Admittedly this isn't a technical fault, but a human nature one, but the effect is the same - make the system too complex in an effort to "protect" your investment and you break it...

  • IIRC, Xing didn't encrypt its player keys, though, which I think was another part of the deal for manufacturers of software DVD players. They may be contractually responsible for that, in which case they might get their CSS license revoked.

  • A million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking real money!


    ---
  • That's bullcrap. You can buy 'em legally. Non-regional DVD players cost a bundle, but they're there.
  • I take it then, you would not be fond of boycotting Sony (which I started to do just earlier this week).
  • I was in my Japanese class this morning, and we saw a commercial for 7-11. They were showing some sort of seaweed-wrapped rice ball thing.
  • What happened to Xing? You'd think that what they did was worse for the DVD industry ostensibly.
  • I'm amazed Sony would go so far as to recall the Playstation2. That really has to hurt their momentum, which they need badly to combat the Dreamcast's installed base here in the US, and also so they can be entrenched for the menace of the X-Box. I guess it just shows how committed Sony as a movie company and MPAA member is to the continuation of the restrictions on regions.
  • The guy who did this is in my cool book:
    http://torsion.org/witten/movieboycott/ [torsion.org]
    I eat dog. Free DVDs [opendvd.org]. Horray!
  • A cunning suggestion, spoilt only by the fact that new memory cards still aren't available. It's the production of memory cards that has been causing the recent PS2 shortages. Still, you can keep your current copy installed on the memory card until you can get a card for the new driver, provided you don't play RRV. :)
  • Not particularly useful until someone comes up with a mod chip for PS2: without it, you won't be able to use your burnt copy of the disc.
  • Simple answer: they don't. I'm assuming this is mostly to cover their backs - Sony can now say that they made reasonable efforts to prevent abuse of the driver's features by issuing the recall and switching over to a new version immediately.

    IANAL, but an enforced withdrawal probably wouldn't be allowed by law in many countries anyway, especially in those cases where the PS2 unit has been exported.
  • Non-regional DVD players cost a bundle, but they're there.

    Not legally. The licence that DVDCCA require you to sign has a bunch of clauses, one of which is that you have to follow their region locking scheme.

    That is, btw, generating a problem for HW manufacturers today. DVDCCA changed the scheme some time ago, and require the HW manufacturers to change their products or loose the license.

    See http://www.dvdcca.org/dvdcca/rpc.html for details.
  • Wonderful argument, convince enough people and you'll be lucky enough to live in the only zone where access restrictions apply, while the rest of us opt out. Have fun.
  • It's also possible that SCEI will have to deal with formal complaints and legal action from U.S. film studios over this debacle.

    A lawsuit at this point would set an interesting precedent, don't you think. I mean,what about the region free DVD players that are available from places like http://www.dvdcity.com [dvdcity.com], among other sources? Are these modification outlets going to start getting sued over producing region free players?

    Too bad they can't stick with producing region free players. Heck, that shoots the value of the PS2 way up in my book.
    --

  • There's probably a Sony engineer laughing to herself quietly right now. But the question is how could Sony allow the Playstation to be released without regional encoding if they were serious about it???

    Yet another case of closed development resulting in software which dosn't work in quite the way its expected. Though its unclear if this is deliberate or an actual bug. Either way the implication is that the region coding is some kind of "bolt on".
  • In country like France you can buy since DVD Day 1 a non-region enforcing DVD player in all appliance store because restraining region products are not welcome.

    Thus anyone in the EU can buy such a player...
  • OTOH, apparently a lot of anime is region 0.

    Probably becuase the main people behind the region coding is the American movie industry. With Japanese companies not having the same wish to milk specific markets.
  • and your old one for breaking a pointless law

    Except that in civilised parts of the world the end user wouldn't be breaking any law. Sony might be in breach of a contractual obligation, but the end user is not a party to that contract.
  • Due to an international agreement signed by DVD-player manufacturers and film companies, it is illegal in Japan to play back the content of DVDs sold overseas.

    This bit sounds very iffy, in order for it to be true the Japanese government would need to be party to these agreements.
    Otherwise it's surely a civil matter between Sony and the cartel.
  • Cool, I didn't know that. I may actually buy one then! (being in New Zealand...)
  • Think this will delay the US release date? Hope not... "Whoops" heh...
  • Waste of money to buy another, why not just drop the $200 on an Apex? Easier to unlock the regions plus it plays MP3's and also disables Macrovision. Oh yea and you can get Apex DVD's players in the US already. ;->
  • "3) Why 7-11?"

    They have 7-11s over there? Man, I wonder if they have Arby's, BillyBobJack's, and dollar stores...or would that be yen stores?
  • The original article says nothing about a "mandatory recally by Sony" - rather that Sony is
    forced to recall the units. As usual Slashdot
    angles the story a bit...
  • About a decade ago, (at the height of the Japanese economic boom) the Japanese franchisee for 7-11 bought a majority stake in the US chain from it's parent company (which I think is/was called Southland Corporation) then licensed the 7-Eleven US franchise back to them.

    Convenience stores, especially 7-Eleven, are a major business in Japan.

  • I was reading the recall thingie for the PSX2's and was reminded of the internet capability that it along with the dreamcast will have. Does anybody forsee banner ad's and such in the future of gaming?
  • Was it just me or did the article say they could exchange their stuff at 7-11? Sounds sorta odd... I guess there's just a lot of em... sorta like voting takes place at schools... weird...
  • If i paid for it, i would tell sony to fuck off...its my proptery now. Does japan have any laws saying you have the right to your property? In any event, how would they track down the cash purchaser?
  • Hi bob :) Money is not an object in this case. Sony will do whatever it takes to stay in the good graces of the DVD-powers-that-be. (Aren't they one of the powers-that-be anyway? Did they help the MPAA put the norweigian kid in jail?) And another thing- isn't regional encoding illegal in the first place? market manipulation and all that? It's getting pretty silly around here lately with this whole DVD thing. I can't help but feel a "disturbance in the Force"....

    miller
  • With all the recent lawsuits related to DVD "built-in" security features and whatnot, it just seems to me that client-side security (i.e: DVD players needing the decryption keys), and the whole business of specifying regions, are dying a horrible death. I'm not sure which idiot chose this protection scheme, as the implementation is obviously bound to security holes. It's the same as having locked audio files... it simply can't be done.

    I'm not saying the idea is bad (or good)... but the design and implementation definitely have a lot of room for improvement.
  • I'd really like to know how you plan on making it play N64 games. :)
    --
    The other side is crowded. The dead have nowhere to go.
  • I'm curious if software licenses in Japan (or elsewhere, for that matter) can be created to legally require upgrades whenever the producer decides to throw one out. Obviously software is often sold with a time-limited license, but these are typically agreed to up front.

    Are people who refuse to upgrade the software in this case subject to legal liability, either from being in violation of the software license or for possessing an (oh dear!) illegal DVD decoder?

    Look at it from this way. Suppose the PS2 was mistakenly shipped to the U.S. with the same capability as that afforded by deCSS. Would those who bought one and never took it back to be hobbled once the mistake became known be in violation of DMCA or, possibly in the future, UCITA?
  • The start-up software for the DVD player is loaded onto a memory card that comes with the system.

    -Sub-Zero
  • Stop using your ass for talking and your dick for thinking...
  • ...this is really going to hurt them. It's interesting to see that Sony is willing to swallow a huge loss financially (I'm assuming the cost of recalling 1.25 million consoles is tremendous) just in order to keep DVD players without regional encoding off the market. They're a huge company with tons and tons of money, but at the same time, the recall definitely doesn't feel too good for them. I guess that shows how worried they are about losing that control, though.
  • Whoops. I knew it wasn't the consoles being recalled, and I still managed to type that in. CDs. This is still hugely expensive.
  • Simply revoke the current utility's decoding key. Make all future movies/media not include a copy of the key.

    Something like this was mentioned already in a CNN article [cnn.com] back in November, so I don't think I'll be going to hell now.

  • Exactly how do we define mandatory recall here? Are police going to turn up at your door if you don't send it back in?
  • The Japanese PS2 DVD software *IS* Region Coded. If you put in an American DVD it wont play.

    HOWEVER, there is a bug, (or 'debug') code which you can use to cause it NOT to check for Region Coding. I beleive it's put in a regular PSX controller and hold up while the DVD is booting.

    So technically, it is a way to 'circumvent' it, because in normal operation it doesn't run other-region DVDs.
    ----
    Don't underestimate the power of peanut brittle
  • IAANAL (the other A is also) but wouldnt the CSS licence say that there shouldnt be a way to circumvent it within the software?
    ----
    Don't underestimate the power of peanut brittle
  • I meant in regards to Sony being legally liable

    However, the same can be said for *MANY* dvd players for the PC, they have like debug menus and stuff dont they?
    ----
    Don't underestimate the power of peanut brittle
  • the drivers are loaded onto the PSX2 memory card.
    hence the furor when ridge racer V wrote over the DVD decoder drivers
    all this will do is overwrite the existing drivers on the memory card.. simply buy a new card. (or 4) make a copy
    send the CD back and laugh a lot...

    dms0

  • Sorry to nit-pick, but the CD was actually invented by Philips.

  • I find numerous things odd about this whole deal. First of all, how do they enforce this? Do they make future games not work on the non-upgraded hardware? Do they knock on your door if you had a pre-order and they have your address? And secondly, Why enforce this? I understand that Sony is a member of the MPAA, but it would seem to their advantage to merely offer to fix the problem rather than force a fix to the problem. Its not like the MPAA loses money because of region code avoiding softare (or do they? This *is* something of a grey area for me and I'm sure others). And lastly, How does sony plan to make ammends with consumers? I know if I had bought one of these units i'd be hella-mad that I would have to send it back (or even just a single chip out of it or whatever I would have to do) and I would expect some sort of compensation (an issue I didn't see addressed by article.

    Whew. Well, thats a lot of questions, but I'd like to see if anyone can answer them for me. :)

  • I hope this opens people eys to the crap that our "world-wide-comglomerants" (sp? ok I think I killed that word, but it is 2:30 am) are starting to hand down to the masses. I would say your average Joe doesn't know anything about all this regional encoding shi.. shtuff. Maybe a letter from Sony in their mail box asking them to bring in their new Playsation so that some "features" can be disabled, will get a few people riled up about this. If we want this to become an issue where something is going to change we need to have some non "2600 people" on our side.
    BTW - I feel good. First time poster, long time reader :-p
  • seeing as Sony pretty much 0wnz Japan-land, its like they have their own secret sevice.
    Sony Secret Service Agent: uh.. sorry kid, we'll have to take that...
    Guy who has a PS2: No damnit! i paid more than $700 bucks for this off of eBay!
    Agent: ...argh... **Eyes start to glow**
    Guy: ... damn you people...
    heh heh
  • i am so sorry to hear the big bad sony has made a mistake. maybe psx2 wasn't all that and a bag of chips.

  • If people really want to watch the latest DVD's that are released in other countries, they can purchase that region's player with which to do so. There is nothing stopping them from doing that. There are no rules or regulations against that.

    However if there was a possibility for other companies to make a player that defeats regional encoding their manipulation simply wouldn't work because they are trying to manipulate something they don't own -- the behavior of players. This possibility does not exist because they have a monopoly on CSS keys licenses => looks like an abuse of monopoly power to me...

  • 3.You can't claim the PS2 is in any way a DVD-copying machine, any more than a standard,
    fully-region-encoded DVD player is.

    Though DVD players which allow titles from any region to be played back violate the DVD licensing agreement. And the DVDCCA is already cracking down on manufacturers who put in hidden menu options or ways to modify the players.

  • The MPAA has had a word with them and they will be disabling the hack RSN. In fact, such hackable players will probably disappear from the market within the year.
  • Only because they slipped past the lawyers. Manufacturers don't sell them as non-regional models.

    Or do you mean stuff in 19" rackmount enclosures, intended for studio use?
  • I can see this developing in a similar way to the PSX 1 mods that are around - they are based on the original 'region' controller that shipped with the press demo and other usints when the PSX was first released. All that happends is you burn the data onto an eprom and solder it into your PSX (but I guess you all knew that anyway :)

    So I assume somewhere down the line people will be getting copies of the recalled software and using it instead of the stuff their PSX shipped with.

    Which kinda brings me to a point......... this software has been recalled etc etc. Would it actually be illegal for me, if I owned a UK PSX2 for example to replace my software with the old software as I own the hardware and stuff. I guess this is like asking if it'd be legal to use someone's copy of word 2 if I owned word 6 so I guess it would be illegal.

    Hohum

    troc
  • No support, future games check for version and don't work with low ver until you replace it.

    You call them, they tell you to upgrade before getting any support.

    May be the dial-up service does the same.

    /Simon
  • I don't know anything about percentages or what causes them, but I've got two DVD's now that haven't worked, right out of the shrinkwrap. One was a "There's Something About Mary" disc, and the other was Monty Python's Flying Circus volume I. Both of these would just go nuts on multiple players, both my hardware player in my entertainment system and multiple PC/Mac DVD drives. I returned them to Sam's Club and got new ones, but it was weird. Are these type of things caused by copy protection or shitty discs?
    ---
  • the design and implementation definitely have a lot of room for improvement.
    All the techies I'm friends with have DVD hardware that will play discs from all regions, no exceptions. Whenever any non-techie asks me about buying a DVD player I whinge about region lockouts and copy protection problems and turn them off the idea, all to hard. Yes, I'd say the protection stuff and region coding is not having the desired effect in my case.

    It's getting so bad that I'm starting to wonder why studios are willing to release stuff to the public at all. (Yes, I know it's about money, but they're so damn paranoid about people copying their stuff that it's getting difficult to play it legally). I'd love to see a study on what percentage of legitmate purchases are made unusable and/or returned due to defective copy protection (or region coding) systems...

    I guess if I lived in the US there would be enough local DVD titles of the stuff I actually want for it to be worth me getting a DVD player. As it is, Australia has such a crappy collection of titles, if I can't get stuff from another region I typically have no reason to buy a player in the first place.

  • Good point. Only 10 hours 'til April 1 here.

    On a more serious note - who cares? I know that when I get my PSX2 it'll be mod-ed to the hilt and it'll be able to play whatever the h--l I want...

  • Great, let them spend all this money recalling the software and reissuing the Japanese region software. Then let them sell PS2s in USA (presumably with North America region software).

    Then it'll be time to hit 'em. Hit 'em? Yeah: Surely this whole region scheme is illegal, as restraint of trade, anyway. Why haven't the DVD folks been sued over it yet? I don't know why, but I'm sorta glad it hasn't happened yet. I say let them spend a lot of money deploying region-compliant players, and then WHAM! Sick DoJ (and European counterparts) on them, getting a court order to make everyone recall every DVD player on the market in USA & Europe, and replacing them with ones that will play in every region.

    Let them waste their money. I look forward to reading about their stockholders jumping out of windows.

    And the best part is this: since all the DVD player manufacturers will have contracts with DVD-CCA, where those contracts contain an illegal condition (the requirement to respect region codes), the very validity of those contracts will become questionable. So maybe some of them will renegotiate, and others will just assume they can throw all the conditions out and make DVD players without any restrictions (e.g. Macrovision) at all, etc. Some might sue DVD-CCA, and some will get sued by DVD-CCA. There will be chaos, and lawyers' fees will have more stockholders jumping out of windows.

    It will be glorious! :-) Will they have time to crack down on players for personal computers, when they're busy with Sony, Panasonic, etc?


    ---
  • Sony Exec, senior year: "Lessee... I've got my 600 level business course, Electronics Thesis, Intro to upper-level management, and I just managed to squeeeze into 'creating a thriving black-market for Dummies'. should be a full year."

    insightful humor, no less.
    --kevin
    occasionally, i reserve the right to say something.

  • No they couldn't. The DVD driver software is only used when playing DVDs, and since it's stored on a memory card, any checks by the game software to ensure that version 1 of the driver software was not present could be defeated by removing that memory card and using another one for playing games.

    Changing the hardware would be fairly unpopular, since the 980,000+ people with the old hardware would be quite upset, especially those who did 'up'grade their software...

  • By tweaking the PS2-specs, so that the old
    PS2 will be incompatible with newer Playstation2
    -games, they could at least in theory force
    people to return their old ones, for the new.
    Of course. There will probably be black market
    modchips that makes the old PS2 maintain
    compatibility.
    As for the tweaking, Microsoft has done it for
    years, so why not Sony?
  • How on earth, do they think they can get people
    to return this?
    This is all just a show, to let Sony escape
    the wrath of the MPAA.
    This extra-CD will probably exist on the Net,
    long after Sony stops shipping them.
  • now everyone knows why I use a computer to eat instead of the stock market. Sony was up $10+ today.

    --
  • Not to mention that Region Codes and other price fixing due to geographical regions is illegal under the WTO. England, Australia, New Zealand and other countries have already banned DVD players which enforce region codes.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • I've mentioned this before but Dino Crisis detected my mod chip. Of course, I'm betting that games for the new Sony PC (Otherwise knows as Playstation 2) will be able to really screw up the OS on the hard drives (otherwise known as memory cards).

    Just think, you are using whatever mod for years, collecting an international movie collection, then one day you buy a legitimate movie or game and from then on the PS2 says, "Sorry, you are using an unauthorized, illegal and immoral set of drivers designed to defeat the regional coding," every time you turn it on until you get the latest version of the mod or change over to Sony's "legitimate" price-gouging/censorship version of the OS.

    I wonder if MS will try stuff like this with X-box?

    It really disturbs me that PS2 will probably become the console of choice, despite Sony's malevolence and incompetance.

  • From the article:

    Gamers can return their illegitimate software wither via mail from April 1, or through 8,000 Seven-Eleven stores soon. PlayStation2 will now ship in Japan with software that does not support the playing of foreign DVDs.

    Um, are Japanese 7-11s that different from the ones here in America? I certainly wouldn't expect to go to one here to buy or return electronic equipment of any kind -- might get a Frostie maybe, but certainly not a Playstation console.

    I know this is semi-offtopic, but that paragraph has me extrmemly curious now. I'm picturing these strange Nipponese convenience stores, with the Nascar imagery I'm used to replaced with Hello Kitty and the rack of porno mags (unsaleable to persons under 18) replaced with glittering Playstation decks (unavailable for export to the USA without a DOD-or-whatever-it-is munitions license. Heh -- we're not so different after all... hahaha



  • Aren't they a couple of days early for April 1st?

    :)

    ---
  • Yes I speak playstation and I ate a banana too. it said unto me that i should roll some rocks down a neanderthal and spout off over some ice cream.


    I LIKE TO EAT POOPY

  • No.. Because it's all in software. They are not recalling the actual consoles. I would keep the d*mn CD (or whatever).. Buy an extra memorycard (I know they are in short stock) and use that exclusively for DVD-playing.. :-)
  • Future games could contain a mandatory check to see if they are running on a version of the OS that can play DVD's from all regions. This way, after a while, you will be forced to swap startup CD/DVD's in order to play the latest games. Anyway, I am sure they will come up with some sort incentive program.
  • The trick to change region is obviously an easter egg put in their by one or more software engineers. They have most surely been fired by now - easter eggs are not kindly looked upon by management.

  • Actually, the convenience store network here is quite different from in the US. All of the following points have contributed to this.
    • For one thing, alot of normal stores still keep 10-9 hours during the week. For some salarymen, this severely limits the places where they can go shopping after a long work day. Convenience stores are open 24/7. So, by nature, the stores stock some essential items like porno mags, playstation games, and Hello Kitty toothbrushes.
    • A few years ago, Nintendo (it may have been Sony; but I think it was Nintendo) experimented with using the convenience stores as a huge distribution point for game cartridges/CD's
    • Most convenience stores can be used as drop-off points for the equivalent of FedEx or UPS. This has been true for a long time. You could take a package down to the corner to send it to your friend on the other side of the country.
    • Most stores also have a basic "online shopping" kiosk where wide variety of goods can be bought.

    All of this has contributed to the convenience-store-as-shipping-depot model that has been born. The rationale is that if the (UPS) guy stops at 7/11 every day to make pick-ups, he can also make deliveries on the same paycheck. This is rapidly becoming a common distribution method in Japan and the convenience stores are turning into gauche versions of Mailboxes Etc.

    Now, referring to the original subject, the recall notice on Sony's page was very amusing. They actually have the audacity to state "because some overseas disks that shouldn't be playable are playable, we want to exchange your disk for free" (extremely rough translation -- the link is here [scei.co.jp] if someone else wants to take a shot at it).
    Kent

  • There's probably a Sony engineer laughing to herself quietly right now. But the question is how could Sony allow the Playstation to be released without regional encoding if they were serious about it??? Could this be a quiet way for Sony to begin protesting the union they are a part of without blatently violating the rules (oops...recall!!!!). Sure Japan's a big market but it's not like they are going to lose revenue over this. Let's hope a similar bug is in the US release. Sony has probably lost DVD sales over this this issue to other companies. But face it, pirating will occur regardless of the restrictions they try and put on regular joes like me. So why punish Joe/Jane??? I think the real issue they face is high bandwidth internet and compressed video. Just wait till you can download and watch the Matrix in real time 1024/768 30fps compressed video. Thats when they will start to shit. Until then it no big problem...........

    Waiting in Wisconsin
  • It's not a mandatory recall. nothing in the article says that you have to take it back.

    "PlayStation2: SCEI has been forced to recall the start-up software which accompanied the 1.25 million PlayStation2 units shipped to date, in order to combat a bug that allows the Japanese consoles to play foreign DVDs. "

    "Gamers can return their illegitimate software wither via mail from April 1, or through 8,000 Seven-Eleven stores soon. PlayStation2 will now ship in Japan with software that does not support the playing of foreign DVDs. "

    I would think that someone would be smart enough to find another reason to recall the units. Who wants to part with their playstation 2 so they can lose the ability to play dvd discs they weren't "allowed" to play before.
  • How does this mandatory recall thing work? I doubt that they can force people to give back their PS2s, or is there some license agreement between Sony and their customers? If I had bought a PS3, I would screw Sony and keep mine so I can watch DVDs from any region I want!
  • CodeFree [codefree.com] sells DVD players which play disks from all six regions. They're in the UK, but ship worldwide. They're not doing anything illegal, apparently. The whole "disabling region codes is illegal" thing is bogus, as far as I know.

    I don't have one, but a friend in Europe does. It's great if you're an English-speaker in a non-English speaking country, and want to order US DVDs in English.

  • This is a bit of a blow for those of you following all of the stuff with DVD/RIAA/MPAA/DeCSS/Whatever other series of meaningless letters you want.

    But I think that this is more about their standing with CSS or whoever, than public image or actually caring who watches which DVD where.

    From what I know about the 'hack' (very little), it didn't seem like it was supposed to be found at all, or at least not as publically announced as it has been.

    Which raises an interesting question: could /. be partially responsible for this? Could the unintentional whistleblowing have thrown a wrench in Sony's plan to slip this one past the grownups until the heat was off? I would hate to think so, but it seems possible.

    Then again, what do I know?

  • Taken from Daily Radar News [dailyradar.com]:

    Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. is to recall startup software for the 1.25 million PlayStation2 until that it has shipped in Japan to date, in a costly attempt to fix a bug which allows the consoles to play foreign DVDs.


    Due to an international agreement signed by DVD-player manufacturers and film companies, it is illegal in Japan to play back the content of DVDs sold overseas. In light of the serious bug in current PlayStation2 consoles, SCEI has had to ask owners to return the relevant software by mail from April 1, and following that through Seven-Eleven convenience stores nationwide.

    A presumably downcast SCEI official said, "Production of replacement software and its mailing will cost us substantially." PlayStation2 consoles will now ship with software that does not support the playing of foreign DVDs.
    It's not the hardware being recalled, it's the software.
  • yeah, like if i had paid out cash for any dvd player, and found it could play all regions, i'd return it. i really would. honest. heh. how the hell can sony expect them to be returned? the only way i could see any being returned at all would be if they refused any right of warranty and/or support to those who didn't return them. even then though, i'd rather take my chances and keep my machine . . .
  • Apparently, the PS2 regional override is just activated by mashing buttons when powering on the systems (there's no set "code"). If you manage to push enough of them, it causes some sort of interrupt conflict and the regional protection doesn't get loaded (or something like that; I don't remember the specifics). In any case, this seems to be definite proof of the old adage that a bug is simply an undocumented feature ;).
  • Its that curse again
    Sony bought into TAO [tao.co.uk] ...
    TAO are involved in OS development for Amiga [tao.co.uk] ...
    The Amiga has a well documented curse
    Hence all their troubles are really THE CURSE OF THE AMIGA.

    This is just my paranoid theory, your mileage may vary...
    and remember just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean their not out to get you.
  • I doubt Sony will lose much money over this.

    A couple of months back, it was found that owners of Gran Turismo 2(PSX) could only complete 98% of the game due to some last minute changes to the game. Not really a big deal but enough people complained that Sony 'recalled' GranTurismo2 and replaced it with a '100%' version.

    Compared to the amount of GT2 CDs sold, the number of people that went for the recall was miniscule.

    This is just Sony putting on a good face for the industry/public. 'Look, we did the right thing!'

    D

  • A device which contains a crack for DVDs, the code necessary to play DVDs from all regions? I'd keep it and buy another playstation.
    And if I could get some of the code onto my computer and analyze it, like they did with bleem, search for the keys, well we could be seeing DeCSS all over again!
    Just have to move to Antarctica before distributing so as to avoid legal concerns...or keep to self, heh heh heh
  • ..but rather the start up software. I.e., a CD (or a DVD, I don't know, I don't own one).

    That sucks for Sony, but it is definitively not as bad as having to recall the consoles themselves.

    OG.

  • Re:How the hell do they enforce this? (Score:3)

    by acb ( 2797 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:28PM (#1159628) Homepage
    Given that software development and publishing are tightly controlled by Sony (who have to approve each title that is manufactured), they could change the format of new titles so that it breaks the old units, and update the firmware of the new units to work around the introduced "defect". You can keep your old unit, but say goodbye to any plans to play new PS2 games on it.

  • One interesting aspect of potential HW recall (Score:3)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:37PM (#1159629)
    One other thing I was going to bring up but forgot to mention - in the Daily Radar article they mention a future HW recall is possible if Sony cannot overcome the issue of copying DVD's to a VCR via the PS2 output (through lack of macrovision altogether or unprotected component output I cannot remember).

    If that did come to pass, the article states that might very well put the estimated US launch date into jepordy.

    That would bring about an interesting situation indeed - would Sony then stick with the scheme to region code DVD's, or would loss of the potential benefit of having the timing to place a PS2 in 75% of American homes lead them to break away from the MPAA and fight the lawsuits that would come from a U.S. release of hardware that would allow perfect duplication and possibly region free DVD playing with hacked DVD drivers?

    It seems like the very design of the PS2 (DVD player software loaded from CD) makes it fairly open to modification.

  • Re:doubt it's any external media, prob. chip (Score:3)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:47PM (#1159630)
    It's DVD player software that's loaded into the PS2 memory card - they have the software on a CD in case you buy a larger memory card, or need to erase the software on the card you have to make room for save games and then want it back later.

    I found a bit more detailed article [dailyradar.com] at DailyRadar that explains how to get a PS2 to play a US DVD - it's a button seqence, quoted here from the article:

    ----------
    wait until the PlayStation2 bootup sequence ends, hold the following keys as it fades to black:

    L1, Circle and Select
    Or,
    L3 (the button function of the left analog stick)

    If the code is successful, two lines of Japanese text will appear, and the movie will begin normally. If one line of text appears, the code may not work on that movie.
    -------------

    So it's not perfect, but enough to get them in trouble.

  • Sell Short!! (Score:3)

    by Wah ( 30840 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:47PM (#1159631) Homepage Journal
    DVD Copy Protection costs Sony $5billion (Monday's Headline)

    --

  • Using a DexDrive is even simpler (Score:3)

    by Green Monkey ( 152750 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @09:08PM (#1159632)
    There's a PC peripheral out called the DexDrive that reads PlayStation memory cards, so you can backup saves on your computer or download saves and copy them onto your card. Although it wouldn't work with the PlayStation 2 since PS2 memory cards hold more data, Interact (the manufacturer) will be releasing a PlayStation 2 DexDrive sometime after the system's U.S. release. Once the DexDrive is out, I'd imagine the 1.00 DVD driver will be a rather popular download... and PS/PS2 save files are a lot smaller than a full ISO ;).

    (The PS1 DexDrive was compatible with both Japanese and North American saves... I'm assuming the PS2 one will be as well.)

  • Comments on the comments (Score:4)

    by EvlG ( 24576 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @10:44PM (#1159633)
    1) Why doesn't someone big sue the DVD CCA for restraint of trade with the whole region encoding scheme? Money. Don't you guys see....it's much cheapr to buy into the system and try to make it work for you than to try and fight it. Sure, the rewards are potentially greater, but the risks are much bigger.

    2) Why is Sony doing this recall now? I'll bet its a contract issue with the DVD CCA. You can bet that when they sign the NDA and technology license agreement, there are clauses about not infringing upon the whole scheme. Here again it's much much cheaper to go along with the crowd than to do what's right.

    3) Why 7-11? Well, why did the US Mint release the new Golden Dollars in Wal-Mart first, before the banks? It's simple: convenience of location and power of distribution. There are pantloads of WalMarts here, and they are pretty close to where people live (in addition to being pretty popular places, especially for Southern teenagers on Friday nights.) I'm sure 7-11 has a similar stature in Japan: lots of stores close to where people live, and people are in the habit of going there anyways. Besides, id Software had Quake 1 shareware CDs sold in 7-11 in the US. It's not THAT strange.

    4) When will the DVDCCA/MPAA/whomever get a clue? Never, as long as nobody is willing to fight. What we really need is a company with the money and the balls to fight this thing out. Afterall, assuming there do exist clauses in the DVD Forum contracts making you comply with region encoding, you can't be bound by them if they are illegal. Perhaps there is a company out there willing to sell such a value added product (Apex?) and also willing to legitimize the whole thing.

    5) Are journalists responsible for creating problems like this? That's an interesting question that we don't seem to have an answer for. 5 years ago, I'd think not. There didn't exist news networks to get infortmation out to large numbers of people rapidly enough to make a difference. Now there is the Internet, with the potential to move millions of people to action in a matter of minutes. Don't believe me? Think /. effect. That is a very real, documented case of the internet's power to disseminate. I can't think of a single news station/newspaper/magazine that can claim that. They may have a larger/broader base of viewers/listeners/readers (for now), but we all know that is changing. Ultimately time will tell if journalists can really be held responsible for things like this. After all, it is their job to "get the scoop". The net just makes the scoop a matter of seconds rather than hours.

  • Story is vague but... (Score:5)

    by trims ( 10010 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:13PM (#1159634) Homepage

    ... honestly, how can it be illegal for someone to sell a non-region encoded device?

    Even in the US, assuming that the DMCA stands (which is a big if), I would have assumed that several things occured in the manufacturing of the PS2:

    1. Sony paid the DVD Forum (or actually, is already a member) the required licensing fees for the decoding algorithm, and the right to use it.
    2. The PS2 does NOT make available the method for "cracking the CCS". They already legally have bought the rights to decode it, and are not "circumventing" it in any way.
    3. You can't claim the PS2 is in any way a DVD-copying machine, any more than a standard, fully-region-encoded DVD player is.
    4. Simply by ignoring the region encoding flag, I don't see how they could construe this to be actively circumventing the copyright protection of the DVD. Region encoding has absolutely nothing to do with copyright; it's all about distribution control, nothing more.

    If Sony would be in trouble for anything, it might be for failing to adhere to the terms of the DVD CCS license contract (which undoubtable says something like "You are supposed to enforce Region Encoding"). However, this is contract (ie Civil) law, certainly not criminal law.

    Of course, IANAJL (I'm not a Japanese Lawyer), so things may be different there.

    Certainly, if the case is Civil, people who bought the PS2 aren't legally forced to return it. They can keep it. If it's criminal (wherein the possession of such a device is illegal), well, then, guess you have to give it back.

    I'd be interested to see what this turns out to be...

    -Erik

  • Software (DVD driver CD) recalled - not hardware. (Score:5)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:15PM (#1159635)
    Other people have posted this already, but since few seem to be noticing I thought I'd mention it again. It's only the CD's that come with the Playstation 2 that are being recalled - these hold the software which you load into the Playstation 2 memory cards, which is in turn used to play DVD's.

    The software was buggy, and I believe not only would not play Japanese DVD's (though I could be wrong about that part), but it definatley let them play Region 1 (US) DVD's - quite a no-no in Japan!

    You do have to wonder though how many people would return software that would let them play US DVD's. Perhaps Sony will refuse to support the systems at all until the CD's are returned.

    DailyRadar [dailyradar.com] (yes the site is a bit juvinile but it has pretty good PS2 coverage) has a story [dailyradar.com] about this as well - they mention that Sony might have to recall all the actual PS2 hardware if the ability to copy DVD's from the component output is not resolved.

  • THINK of the CONCEQUENCES! (Score:5)

    by Mathonwy ( 160184 ) on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:11PM (#1159636)
    Just think! A black market filled with DANGEROUS CRIMINAL MASTERMINDS will soon spring up, centering around ilicit "original PS2 trade". PS2 cartels will come into power, and rule japan and other countries with an iron fist of TERROR , doling out favors and original PS2s to those that please them, and curry favors... While they ruthlessly withHOLD these blessed units from those whom do NOT please them, condemning such individuals to an eternety of region coded gaming and DVD watching. OH THE HUMANITY! OH THE PATHOS.
    Ok, I'll stop.

  • features. (Score:5)

    by tingalingusob ( 165964 ) <apl0781@@@njit...edu> on Thursday March 30, 2000 @08:27PM (#1159637) Homepage
    Sony:
    "Sorry guys, the software we gave you is too good. You'll have to return it for an inferior copy. I'm sure you understand."

    Customers:
    "Fuck off."

    translated from Japanese by,
    tingalingusob

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