

Ion Storm To Finish Thief III? 77
Lumpish Scholar writes: "Slashdot already reported Looking Glass Studios (creators of Thief, Thief II, and other games) declared bankruptcy. The irony was, their publisher, Eidos Interactive, was pumping all their money into Ion Storm's effort to finish Daikatana. Now, according to this story in Salon, Eidos has bought the rights to Thief III (presumably an asset when Looking Glass was dissolved) and has handed the work over to Ion Storm (under the helm of Warren Spector, not Daikatana's John Romero). Small world, innit?" Wow, that's cool. This should happen more often, I think.
Re:The Web is a Poor Application Platform (Score:1)
Perhaps there is no way to do that in Lynx but with javascript events that should be quite easy. There is OnChange event in all form input elements that can be used to set dirty flag and then you can use OnExit (or something - is there OnClose or so?) event where you prompt() user and perhaps submit() the form for him/her if wanted. Of course some people opt to not enable javascript but IMO that's not developers fault. (I haven't checked this though and it may be that javascript cannot force window to stay open - at least if it's not signed.)
OTOH, how to overcome the problem that textarea must be defined in characters instead of percentage of available space or even pixels I have no idea. I hate when I have to use textarea of 60x10 characters on a 1600x1200 display just because there could be someone with old portable with 640x480 or less that developer has choosed to support. How about if I have huge window my textarea is also huge (say 150x80 characters with font I have selected)?
_________________________
Re:Great news (Score:1)
Re:Just exactly what IS thief? (Score:1)
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Re:slashdot burp? (Score:1)
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Re: Applications (Score:1)
Mozilla's about as fast as Java too.
Re:slashdot burp? (Score:1)
A very reasonable sounding conspiracy theory, and not exactly unheard of. Eidos letting LGS go broke seems to have come up trumps for them - they now own the rights to the series.
Not juest for them: the great void of Ion Story, with whome Eidos seem to have an odd relationship, get propped up with a new title and staff cannibalised from LGS.
I wonder if any of Eidos' other dev houses are looking at other publishers?
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My name is Sue,
How do you do?
Now you gonna die!
Re:slashdot burp? (Score:2)
Keep in mind Warren Specter a) Started Thief to begin with, b) Does not tolerate interference with his team, c) Put out a kickass title under Ion Storm, d) is rehiring many LGS members for Thief 3. Things are DEFINITELY looking up as long as they remain unshackled by the hideous Epic (excuse the pun) monstrosity that is the Unreal engine.
My favorite conspiracy theory goes something like this: Eidos could fund LGS, OR leave them go hanging and snap up the same kickass properties for pennies. Consider that 10+ execs of Eidos went home with several, several hundred Gs this year - which could have kept LGS operating for months, at least.
--Ryv
Re:Gah (Score:1)
It'll probably flop for the wrong reasons - marketing BULL. It doesn't make much difference that it took 'em years to make, the game did get done. But I won't be buying it.
However, say they made a sequel the way they finished the first? They might make a technically up to date, good game - but more importantly, the public opinion would be more favourable.
Personally, I think the Q2 engine is more than good enough to support a good game. It isn't anything special anymore, but it is probably comparable to UT's. Course, in Q2 they just didn't make cool enough textures or use the colored lighting wisely or have a bit of creative change - but Daikatana might have that, and indeed, the storyline sound extremely good - something definitely interesting to me in a single player game.
So, I would say, don't write it off yet... esp not any sequels.
Re:slashdot burp? (Score:1)
Re:Warren Spector (Score:1)
*Sigh...* (Score:1)
Re:Twice? (Score:1)
Re:This should happen more often???? (Score:1)
Although the Deus Ex demo left me kinda cold...I was pretty disappointed.
Re:Gah (Score:1)
I need to finish the Deus Ex demo, but so far it hasn't really impressed me much. Part Half Life, part System Shock II, vaguely interesting game world, no reason to play it over several other games who have done the "thinking man's POV shooter" much better.
Re:Warren Spector is a god (Score:1)
Didn't Daikatana suck? (Score:1)
So, in this world, some talented guys, who were writing the good game, went bankrupt 'cuz the publisher was throwing all their money at some schmucks who ended up writing a flop. The publisher, as part of the bankruptcy setlement gets the rights to the game the talented crew was working on, and sends the project to the schmucks for completion.
Eidos wouldn't happen to be a subsidiary of Microsoft, would they?
Re:The Web is a Poor Application Platform (Score:1)
2) The HTML-standard was never designed from ground-up to deliver applications, and whoever think it's suitable for such tasks is plainly wrong. It's good enough for simple forms though. The future of "thin clients" is probably Java w/Swing, but we're probably going to face the same ridiculous lock-in with Sun as we have had with Microsoft.
- Steeltoe
Here's a link to a more factual explanation (Score:1)
OMM [oldmanmurray.com]
Scroll down the page till you get to the bit titled "Who really killed Looking Glass Studios."
It discusses the circumstances that led to Eidos losing lotsa cashola, and the truth is, the 30 Million they dumped into Ion Storm was chump change.
Whoever wrote "The irony was, their publisher, Eidos Interactive, was pumping all their money into Ion Storm's effort to finish Daikatana." should really have done a bit more research.
Re:Didn't Daikatana suck? (Score:2)
I think that Warren Spector (the guy in charge of Ion Storm Austin) is just leaching off of Romero & co for money. He has a long history of making good games and he had a part in making Thief 2, so he really is the perfect guy for the job.
Re:Great news (Score:2)
Deus Ex review index [gamers.com]
Summary? About half the reviews contain the words "game of the year" somewhere in their text...
Re:Don't blame Ion Storm (Score:2)
At least one ex-LGS'er has drawn that conclusion. In addition, some of them are rather pissed that they were forced to ship Thief II on a hard-and-fast deadline, knowing that there were bugs (thus the large patch right off), when Romero was given all the time in the world for Daikatana.
Clueless (Score:1)
As the DOM rolls on, a common browser event model is being birthed. As events get common support, more events emerge. Javascript, when supported well, is object oriented with dynamic binding. You can create whatever magic state-saver object you want, dynamically, to the extent and capacity required by your particular app and provided by your particular browser (OS be damned).
So, then, original commentor, you either need more clues, or more friends, because your observation is extremely shortsighted (and possible corrupted by the notion that scripting is bad and linux browsers are passable when it comes to reflecting the true intentions and expectations of the web.)
Word.
Re:The Web is a Poor Application Platform (Score:1)
What would totally alleviate the situation is the ability to make HTTP connections from Javascript. Right now you can fake it with a Java applet (not the best solution, IMO), but for example, with this sort of micro-request you can set Javascript to save all the entered forms to a "dirty" buffer periodically... then restore the user's temporary state when they return or prompt them to save it if it's been changed.
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Reality check (Score:1)
Yes. I love it also when substantial design studios close up shop and their titles are signed over to people who have visions of the titles. That should happen all the time. I mean, just think how great The Sims would have been if Maxis went bankrupt and the title was bought out by id!!
Re:Don't blame Ion Storm (Score:1)
Warren Spector (Score:3)
Re:Moderators are on CRACK!!! (Score:1)
Re:The Web is a Poor Application Platform (Score:1)
Pretty nasty and not portable, but it works. Except for the fact that users have been conditioned by the whole form submit thing and expect to see a Save or Submit button on the page.
Re:/. already reported... (Score:1)
Good God, let's cut down on the moderators. There's too many of them when they fight back and forth with the scores of posts. This seems to be happening a _lot_ in the last couple days. (and how is post #1 possibly redundant? Moderators need to pass a skill-testing question I think.)
Re: Applications (Score:1)
Isn't that kinda like those annoying news announcers saying "so and so is 90 years young today!
Re:This should happen more often???? (Score:4)
I don't think the problem is that Ion Storm is making the sequel, but that Eidos turned their back on Looking Glass when they needed help, only to buy the rights at a yardsale.
I don't think Ion Storm did anything wrong in this situation, Eidos did. That's what I'm upset about, and what I think the original commenter is upset about. Ion Storm was duing what it was supposed (well, maybe not Romero's team), Eidos cheated looking glass.
Perhaps Eidos thought that it was doing its job in throwing its weight behind the much-hyped game, much as record labels throw their support behind the hottest artists. Perhpas it didn't think LG's titles would sell? Well, they bought the rights to it (and we saw what happened to Daikatana). . .
Re:This should happen more often???? (Score:1)
Well
>I don't think Ion Storm did anything wrong in this situation, Eidos did. That's what I'm upset about, and what I think the original commenter is upset about. Ion Storm was duing what it was supposed (well, maybe not Romero's team), Eidos cheated looking glass.
Well, if what I said before then Ion Storm partly is the cause of why Eidos couldn't buy LG. Daikatana just wasted so much money that Eidos didn't have the resources to help LG.
Of course, it's sad to see Looking Glass go, especially as I'm a fan of the System Shock series, the future of which is now hanging in the dark even more than that of the Thief series. The rights for Thief belonged to LG and could be bought but the rights for Shock are held by EA. (You know the giant publisher that ruins just about every game company they hold by making them publish one dumb sequel after the other. An example of this is Origin Inc which used to produce some of the greatest games ever and now starts to slowly vanish)
Anyway, I guess there's not much we can do except for buying the games we like and thus supporting the company who developed it. (Yes, I actually bought both System Shocks
Greetings
Wouldn't WANT it to be THIEF from LG... (Score:2)
Why everyone waxes on about what a great game it is/was, and how tragic it is the Looking Glass is no longer at the helm is utterly beyond me. It's a cool idea better left executed by folks who can really specialize and perform in 3D immersive game-design.
I hate to sound mean-spirited about this stuff, I found the System Shock demo almost unplayable as well. (I paid good money for the full Thief II, so I earned the rights to a little bitchin' there!)
Bottom Line: Looking Glass did NOT crumble due to any sort of corporate piracy. They crumbled because their games could not compete on any level with their contemporaies or even their predecessors. Next to a Quake, Quake II or a Half-Life, Thief and System Shock look like poorly sketched demos.
It could be argued that Looking Glass games had better 'story', but what good is that if the interface gets in the way?
Hopefully, the Looking Glass folks will get jobs as game designers, where they show obvious strength, and leave the actual coding to the pros.
Why this is news. (Score:1)
/. already reported... (Score:2)
Yep, they did. About 0 minutes ago.
Twice? (Score:1)
Are games so importnat "news" for us "nerds".
I think I'm the only one not playing games, but actually using computers for work...
ms
Re:Twice? (Score:1)
Technical Correction (Score:3)
On August 12th, Shoeboy will make
--Shoeboy
(posting anonymously to preserve my precious karma)
Where Did All The Money Go, Long Time Passing? (Score:1)
slashdot burp? (Score:1)
Now, for the on-topic: there had better be a Thief III, and it had better NOT have anything remotely in common with that black void of crap called Diakatana!!!
I'm sorry to see looking glass go. .
http://students.washington.edu/steve0/ [washington.edu]
Web's sacred code (Score:2)
Thou shalt not double-click on submit buttons.
Although in the new testament thy server-side code can trap and resolve this quite easily.
Not only that... (Score:3)
P
(Score:1)
Just exactly what IS thief? (Score:1)
/. and Eidos Conspiracy (Score:3)
Hemos, when questioned by Congressman Nitwiddle, explained that through a previous deal, the editors of Slashdot agreed to double post any story by Eidos Interactive, particularly when containing ANY information about "Ion Storm".
Cowboy Neil went on to state that the deal was that Slashdot was to be given 1 case of lager beer every time this happened, and that by double posting, the editors not only hoped to split up negative comments on flops such as "Daikatana", but also manage to fulfill their lifelong dream of sitting in a jacuzzi filled with ale.
Eidos took the stand next, explaining that "no such deal existed in written, or oral form" and that by double posting stories of Eidos and Ion Storm, the potential for negative comments increased two fold.
Ken Williamson, a lawyer for the slashdot team, claimed that it simply was not a possibility, as there aren't that many "nerds" who honestly care about how badly Eidos is going to screw up an otherwise great game. He also went on to state that Eidos was in violation of the First Amendment.
Eidos countered, by stating that the First Amendment didn't count in areas that were specifically "free speech", and referred to the Supreme Court ruling of Metallica vs. the Offspring; a ruling that mandated that by selling T-Shirts that violated Metallica's money making endeavors, the Offspring gave up their First Amendment Rights, and should look towards their Fourth Amendment rights to rectify the situation. Judge Morely stated simply, "Just shoot em, it'll cost less."
Cowboy Neil and Hemos counterpointed that the negative comments were intermingled with good ones, and that if they were going to be sued for the negative ones, then they should be paid for the good ones.
Eidos stated firmly that it had not, nor would it ever deal with traitorous bastards who took their beer and drank it, too.
krystal_blade
Re:This should happen more often???? (Score:1)
Secondly, the team that did DEUS EX is going to handle THIEF 3, and not John Romero, or his "teams".
Deus Ex is a well regarded game, which was released shortly after Diakatana.
Re:The Web is a Poor Application Platform (Score:1)
Except for that wierd thing where you don't know what the heck you're clicking on. You sure you need to be using a mouse?
Re:How is this possible? Slashdot has bugs!! (Score:1)
Deo
Are you crazy? (Score:4)
Looking Glass Studios was tricked, raped, pillaged, and salvaged by Eidos. Eidos made an initial proposal to fund LGS through it's projects, but there were a few projects it was not interested in. So instead of 'wasting' their money on side projects, when all they wanted was the money-maker Thief, they devised a plan.
LGS knew they needed to be bought out, and went off and started hitting up all the major publishers who would be interested. They hit up Eidos, and Eidos made them a deal, and in such a way that LGS gave up on searching for more money, confident that Eidos would pull through for them. At that point, Eidos just sat back and waited, not sending any checks. Shortly after, LGS went bankrupt, that much we know, because of Eidos not funding them as they should.
Now what do you see happening? Looking Glass Studios was auctioned off by it's creditors to pay the bills. The vulture Eidos then came in and bought up projects that they wanted, at cut-rate prices. Much less than they would have paid in the first place.
This is a highly unethical, unsuitable business practice, but it occurs many times, and makes me sick to my teeth.
Yes, I'm happy that Thief 3 is being finished. But, I didn't want to lose my favorite company in the process, because Eidos was money-hungry.
Re:This should happen more often???? (Score:1)
Before everyone makes Daikatana comments... (Score:3)
Re:Before everyone makes Daikatana comments... (Score:1)
Re:Reality check (Score:3)
Come to think of it, that might have been kinda interesting...
Reminds me of a blurb my friend submitted to PC Magazine many years ago that they printed on their back page: "Did you hear that id Software and Brøderbund are merging? They're working on a new game called 'Where In Hell is Carmen Sandiego?'."
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Re:Are you crazy? (Score:1)
eudas
Re:Reality check (Score:1)
eudas
Re:Gah (Score:1)
Warren Spector is a god (Score:1)
Now, hopefully, he will lend his "slide and stealth" expertise to Thief. This should be awesome.
Of course, the key to a good 1st person sneaker... (Score:1)
Sorry.
My friend said this years ago (Score:2)
BTW - I have left Javascript turned off in my browser for most of a year now, ever since the CERT Coordination Center [cert.org] recommended everyone do so because some online discussion sites allow HTML posts but don't filter <SCRIPT> tags out of their users' posts so someone who knows how to crack javascript can eat your machine with a forum post (Slashdot filters out script tags), and I leave Java off ever since that web server thingy appeared a couple days ago - and I urgently emailed everyone I knew and told them to turn off Java too.
Yes, solutions are on the horizon but they're not here yet. Yes, there are workarounds like typing posts into a notepad and copying them in from the clipboard - so my problem can be taken care of, but not the novice users.
So I'll take my applications as locally executing programs, thank you, and I'll be happy when a solution does appear which survives extensive security auditing
My friend's opinion wasn't about doing stuff with Java or Javascript at his company - they specifically didn't use it because they said they couldn't count on it being implemented in the browser - but with plain old HTML, generated by perl scripts on the server backed by a Sybase database, and forms.
He thought this was the best thing since sliced bread, and as a long-time Mac GUI programmer, I thought he was completely clueless.
Comment removed (Score:4)
Re:/. already reported... (Score:1)
What I am curious about is how they are going to fix this without loosing comments.
This asks an other question? (Score:1)
Re:hmmm (Score:2)
This should happen more often, I think
But not twice within one minute, emmett.
Re:This asks an other question? (Score:1)
Re:/. already reported... (Score:1)
Much too late as comments have already been "loosed".
Re:Twice? (Score:2)
you got it wrong...
the first story was the "news for nerds"...
this is the "stuff that matters"
How is this possible? Slashdot has bugs!! (Score:2)
Mr. CmDrTaco, Please reply. If there's any error in the code, please tell me, coz I'm developing a site using the code.
Re:Great news (Score:1)
Re:/. already reported... (Score:1)
Ion Storm To Finish Thief III? (Score:1)
Moderators are on CRACK!!! (Score:2)
Hmmm.. Eidos is going to make "Thief III, and hand it off to Ion Storm.."
Lets see... Mentioned Eidos 6 times in post.
Ion Storm? Mentioned them 3 times.
So, exactly how off topic is it? Well, you're average "Prist Fost" article mentions Eidos and Ion Storm exactly "0" times.
You're usual 2 paragraph blurb (that gets an "Interesting" comment, and is, of course, about as interesting as watching two moderators shave each others backs.) Mentions Eidos Twice, and Ion Storm once.
Where did the latest string of Moderators come from? Ex-Nazi war criminals?
Freedom of Expression comes in Many forms, so I'd like to take this opportunity to Express myself, in my own way, over the current state of moderation.
KISS MY ASS, YOU SUCK. How low can it go? -3? Come on... you can do better than that...
Moderation (Score:2)
by emmett [mentaltempt.org] (emmett@slashdot.org) on Saturday August 12, @03:51AM EST (#9 [slashdot.org])
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Great news (Score:2)
When considering how Thief III might turn out, think about Deus Ex (Spector's game for Ion Storm), not Daikatana.
Gah (Score:2)
Anyway, now that Daikatana is done with (let's hope we never hear rumors of a sequel), Ion Storm seems to be actually delivering what it promised originally. Deus Ex is one hell of a game, and Anachronox looks pretty decent too. Personally, I'm pretty stoked to be seeing Spector doing Thief III -- after playing Deus Ex, I'm convinced he's the right guy to do the job. IMO, DX was essentially everything the Thief series should have been all along (i.e. multiple solutions to problems, emphasis on stealth but not total reliance, no wandering around searching for keys, etc)...
Double Gah (Score:1)
Re:This should happen more often???? (Score:1)
-David T. C.
Don't blame Ion Storm (Score:4)
Salon [salon.com] has an earlier article where Geoff Keighley points out the basic truth: "Looking Glass folded because it wasn't making money".
We all want brilliant games like Tthief and System Shock to make millions, but they don't. Games like Soldier of Fortune and Who Wants to be a Millionare do.
While Eidos didn't help Looking Glass as much as they probably could have, it didn't make economic sense for them to keep a studio whose games were low to negative profit ventures. (I'm not saying sinking $30 million into Daikatana was, but Eidos bad decisions are the reason they themselves are in financial difficulty now.)
Basically, it comes down to this: We can't blame Ion Storm for Looking Glass' demise. (although they may contribute to the possible death of Eidos) We can only blame a market where Barbie Fashion Designer and Bland Genre Clone® are the only things to make large profits.