Video Games and ADD 241
narratorDan writes "Cure your child with videogames!
This is an interesting story about how video games and bio feedback can help children with attention deficit disorder (ADD).
The academics at the Langley Research Centre in Virginia say the treatment helps the children train their brains to
concentrate more and focus their attention." Don't look at me, I have a hard time concentrating on anything longer then a one paragraph Slashdot story *grin*.
Re:case study: my brother (Score:1)
Can't we just accept that some kids are stupid? (Score:1)
Re:I still think Southpark had the best answer.... (Score:1)
this is a process to weed out those that don't have a genuine mental disorder. And cowing kids to sit down and study will help them learn, it's how all of them do it anyway, some just need a bit more encouragement.
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Re:... (Score:1)
ADD isn't just a decease, it's a life.. (Score:1)
Certainly, in the States AD(H)D is over diagnozed,
judging by the great number of ADD-kids found in The States, because they don't add up to the numbers in Europe, but that doesn't means ADD isn't real..
I also hear a lot of BS about self-discipline...
It's really saying to a guy with only one leg
and a prothese, that the reason he's not winning the 100 metres run on the Olympics, is because he's not trying hard enough..
Any fscking idea what living a life with ADD is all about, huh?
If you compare a person with ADD to a regular guy,
it's a bit like this: a regular guy multiplexes his inputs from the real world and runs a routine
on every input, an ADD guy hauls all input in asynchronously and all routines run in parallel..
This has a tendancy to get a mess..
The fun part is, when you put a very complex thing
to a regular person and one with ADD, the regular person has trouble multiplexing inputs/things at speed, while an ADD person just accepts the stream
of inputs and is more able to decern the keys to
solving a certain matter.. Also the chaotic nature of it's brains, leads to much more creative sollutions..
(Only when it comes to planning and organizing stuff, it's really like going through a large array without pointers, with just a hunge where
you should lookup things..)
I think gaming is about doing a lot of things at the same time, without a major focus on any of those elements, which leads to good results compared to a regular person and leads to more self-asteem for a person with ADD..
("you see, I'm good for something..")
Yes, I've owned a Nintendo 8bit, 16 bit, N64, Sony PlayStation and when I turned 16, I started with
personal computers (didn't own one myself until I was 18) and maybe that helped me for the better..
Let me give small selection of things I've to bear with:
"You're the brightess guy I know, to bad it doesn't show in your grades"/"why don't you try harder at school, if I can do it, certainly you should be able to accomplish that"
"Mate, if you wouldn't finish school, I would be heavily disapointed in you.."
Well, sorry, besides trading school in electronics, I never finished anything else
because of ADD related symptoms or the trouble
ADD got me into...
Still I am a multi-discipline, creative, social guy (but very straightforward and honest and not all people like that), that knows more about
electronics, data-communication, Industrial Automation, Test&Measurenent, machine construction, computers than many other people
I encounter, but still I am not able to get certain key jobs, because I don't have the papers, simple because ADD is giving me a hard time studing and not because I'm lazy!
The reason why I say this, is because a niece (besides other relatives) of my has ADHD and is treated like a retard and kept a retard, just because she's different and that sucks...
ADD is a lot more, than having an attention span of a gold-fish!!
ADD people are not retards, lazy or weird people
that hate self-discipline, they are just different!
Here's a good link:
http://www.livingwithadd.com
(yeah, I'm to lazy
right now to html this thing, ADD persons still
*can* be lazy..)
Other info is readily available on the internet
if you really want to know something more about ADD, in stead of letting your brain produce noise
on your output leading to your mouth...
These aren't regular video games! (Score:2)
The article is saying that NASA researchers have created a device that monitors patients brainwaves. They've hooked this device to a video game written special for the device. Winning and Losing is at least partially linked to your brainwaves and how much of the ADD-symptom brainwaves you're putting out.
The game itself is probably about as fun as Math Blasters. -Andy
Spelling, damnit! (Score:1)
my two cents... (Score:2)
Re:I do blame parents (Score:2)
I firmly believe that drugs that alter brain chemistry are a tool, and should not carry any stigma for their use. There's never an issue with a diabetic injecting insulin; there should never be an issue with an ADD/hyperactive/depressed/name-your-condition-her
So I won't say anything bad about Ritalin, Prozac or other drugs: properly prescribed, they are a godsend for their users. They take a chemically unbalanced brain and bring it back to balance.
But our medical system -- oy! It's all-too-willing to pop a pill. Your kid is active? Why he must be hyperactive! You're feeling blue? Why you must be clinically depressed! You have trouble sleeping? You must need tamazapan!
GPs are under-educated for the work that they are allowed to do. Brain chemistry is still a huge unknown, and it's becoming apparent that nutrition, lifestyle and emotional attitudes have immense influence on our brains.
But being poorly informed and needing to find a quick fix, doctors prescribe their pill-of-the-week to all and sundry.
Consumers, being even more ignorant and less willing to look for deeper answers, go along with it.
Drugs are a tool, for sure.
But it's a damn shame that we're using hammers to drive screws into place.
There are many children who will see the world in brighter colours and with greater happiness because they're correctly prescribed a drug that alters their brain chemistry. It's great when their problems are nailed by Ritalin.
There are many, many more children who's "hyperactive" behaviour is caused by environmental factors that their parents or doctors are too lazy or stupid to investigate. They're the ones who are condemned to a life of grey because their guardians didn't do their job. It's a shameful loss when they're screwed because they got hammered with Ritalin.
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Re:my $.02 (Score:1)
coping mechanism (Score:1)
I'll buy the ADD stuff, but I don't know about playing video games to learn to cope with stress. I know more than one person who deals with tough spots in video games by pausing the game to strategize.
Last I heard F-15s don't come with pause buttons.
Hypothesis (Score:2)
Perhaps video game therapy helps children and pilots in different ways.
For a child, the game is attractive enough to avoid distractions away from the task. Irrelevant impulses to squirm around are ignored by the brain which is too busy processing the sights, sounds, and strategies of the game. For once, the kid may be able to follow a task from beginning to end; for example, leading a mouse to the end of a maze. That may be the child's first clue about planning strategies. He learns subtle new skills as well as the rewards of patience and effort.
For a pilot, the game can alienate him from reality. Success and failure become abstract ("Health=0, Insert Token to Continue"). His reasoning is strictly analytical and without fear of consequence. He is able to focus and strategize without feeling pressure. It's a skill that he can carry over into a mission.
Video games may provide a structure capable of teaching these skills, but there is a risk: a player who is detached from reality, too busy winning to think about quitting. If video games trigger a new insight in the mind of the player, then he should quit while he's ahead (or after he's satisfied and had enough fun).
--David M. Moore
Re:But why? (Score:1)
Coin-op video games have instant gratification. When I try to get through all D (hex) levels of Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels without using a single continue, that's not instant gratification.
And that's only a side-scroller. Adventure games are even better in this regard.
Games that are based on coin-op genres, like fighing games inparticular, THOSE focus on instant gratification.
But the biggest offender of all is Tetris. Yes, everyone's favorite game, or at least the favorite game of people who "don't like video games," Tetris is more focused on instant decisionmaking, leading to instant gratification, than any other game. I never approached a Tetris game thinking about how I was going to approach level 9... it is the most present-oriented game there is. It works well for short attention spans becaue you don't need to pay attention to any one thing for more time than it takes to place the surrnt piece and move on the the next randomly selected piece. You can't plan ahead because all the pieces are randomly generated. Playing with "show next piece" is generally considered wussing out, even though it is even more intullectually stimulating. This is why I consider Tetris to symbolize the worst, most attention-limited, instant-gratification-oriented aspects of our society.
Suber Mario Brothers, on the other hand, now THERE's a game you have to think about while playing.
Re:Why use video games... (Score:1)
Sounds like Ender's Game.... (Score:1)
Re:ADD and modern media (Score:2)
But do you have ANY idea just how often people are just writen off as being "hyperactive" and given ritalyn as if it were some kind of panacea?
I, personally, know two people from high school who were (mis)diagnosed as having ADD. At my HS we had this dipshit school councilor who thought that a BS in pop psychology and a "Child Development Certificate" (whatever the fsck THAT is) somehow made him qualified to diagnose mental disorders.
He had this arangement with one of the local doctors where he would write a letter testifying to a child's problems in school and that the kid might be hyperactive. The doctor, after a cursory exam of course, would promptly condemn the patient to ritalyn.
This happened to both of the friends I mentioned. Neither one actually suffered from ADD. Wanna know the truth?
One actually turned out to be dyslexic. You can imagine the effect that that had on his learning process; which led to his (mis)diagnosis. It wasn't until high school (after being on ritalyn for a year) that the truth was discovered. Fortunately, the ritalyn didn't mess him up too much.
The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for my other ADD (mis)diagnosed friend. Ritalyn only led to MORE problems for her. She actually became suicidal briefly. It wasn't until after lengthy (and expensive for her family) counciling and examination by a REAL psychiatrist, that it was discovered that she suffered not from ADD, but from Bipolar Disorder. A change to the PROPER medication did wonders for her, but didn't erase the years of torment before ritalyn, and the months of near psychosis ON ritalyn.
So you'll please forgive me if and when I have kids, and they have problems in school; and some fscking pop shrink says "oh, they're just hyperactive, here hop them up on ritalyn"; I tell the asshole to take a flying leap.
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Re:I think there are better ways... (Score:2)
and those are parents that both work, and teachers dealing with balooning class sizes [house.gov]. The drugs are yet another shortcut to the American Dream. For me, it's not as much a question of how my friends that use(d) Ritalin acted when they were on it, but how they acted when they tried to stop.
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Re:Why use video games... (Score:1)
Thank God I wasn't diagnosed until I was 26. If my parents knew I had ADD when I was, say, 12, then I'd be the spokesman for the Ritalin Council.
I'm currently taking Wellbutrin SR and it's working wonders.
I don't have a problem concentrating. My problem is that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time. As soon as I move to a new subject, everything I was doing before gets saved to disk, and the cache buffers get cleared.
And, for God sake, don't talk to me when I'm in the middle of something and expect me to remember it in 1 minute. Ain't gonna happen.
Thank God for Palm Pilots!!
Wait a second here... (Score:1)
And now it's part of the cure??
Gotta love those scientists...
If it doesn't work as part of the problem, make it part of the solution... (Just like years before the global warming problem, there was the global cooling problem...)
Kierthos
Re:But why? (Score:1)
Check out the Sig field in the "Edit User Preferences" page of Slashdot.
Note the redundancy.
Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
Interesting (Score:1)
But, seriously, this isn't the first time someone has reported something good coming from video games. The question, as with everything, is: Do the various 'good' thing out way the 'bad' things.
Don't get me wrong, I have wasted many hours in front of my Atari, Nintendo or computer playing everything from Combat to UT. Realistically, I don't think that there is anything wrong with video games in general, but I have met several people who do nothing but sit infront of their (insert favorite gaming device) for days at a time. This can't be healthy in any way.
Hockey - Canada's gift to the world
Re:TV makes things worse. (Score:1)
Yes, I am fairly young, but I'm actually older than most of the guys at my company. Plus, I've been coding fairly regularly since I was 12, so I've got more experience than many of the others combined. Which means I'm somewhat senior. Which means more design documents and less coding... I love writing design docs, but I have lots of trouble finishing them.
I haven't been fired, but after 3 years in the work world, I'm on my 3rd job. All 3 are very different. (FPGA design, embedded software and large project).
By the way, do you have trouble shifting from one task to another, or getting back into something one you have been distracted? I know I sure do. Good luck with your work, hope you can bet back to some real coding soon.
Sometimes. It depends on whether I was in "the zone" before I was distracted, or not!
later,
Bryan
Sure, delivering videogame fun works... (Score:2)
Or better yet, combine the two. Give them control when they concentrate and the heroin when they make a kill in the game.
They would be the perfect soldiers. We could build our very own force of Jem'Hadar!
Muahahahaha!
---
Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.
Mine too... (Score:1)
He only takes breaks to eat and pee, and occassionally he'll take a break to play starcraft. It was nearly a vacation for him when he beat Diablo II in two days.
In all seriousness he does have a part time job at Pizza Hut and is taking GED classes.
I'm forcing him to go on a weekend vacation with me just to get him out from in front of the computer.
What do you do for someone like this? He dropped out of high school and is working on getting his GED. He does have some computer skills. I was trying to get him interested in web design but he can't find any place to hire him so it's not of much interest to him.
Re:Wow! (Score:1)
I did like pacman quite a bit
Re:I still think Southpark had the best answer.... (Score:1)
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Bad books (Score:2)
The Langley Research Centre's Research on Attention Deficit Disorder and Hey! Let's go ride our bikes!"
(okay, I copied it from a list of books you'll never see. Mod me down)
The Treatment for ADD is Self Disciplin? (Score:2)
If there's a Slashdotter who could throw some light on the nature of ADD and it's other forms of treatment it would be much appreciated. I did a little bit of reading over at www.add.org [add.org] but it looks like there's a lot of data to sift through before anything even starts to become clear.
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As a drug taking adult ADD'er (Score:2)
Then, after reading letters from adults with ADD, all of a sudden things really clicked for me, and I felt like I could finally beat this thing that had frustrated me since I was kid. Long story short, I take meds (non-Ritalin) every day and I see my now 8 year-old son starting to display some of the same traits that I had for so long. Seeing this article gives me hope that I can help my son control his ADD and take the blessings it gives and fight down the bad parts of it WITHOUT BEING MEDICATED.
I hate the fact that I take these damn pills every day, but I've tried going off them and I just don't have the coping skills I need, my son now will have the option of being himself and making all this work for him instead of against him.
Re:Not mixed at all. (Score:2)
In other words: It's okay for the United States to bomb Iraq because Sadam Hussien is Evil (it has nothing to do with oil... please pay no attention to the thousands of attrocities commited by non-oil producing nations.)
I spent eight years in the military myself (yes, I got out with an Honorable Discharge.) As a disabled veteran, I have one thing to say about "wars" like Desert Storm: WE HAD NO BUSINESS THERE.
Re:Feeble egalitarian "equal but different" logic. (Score:2)
If I was an athlete (and I am), this is my thought process:
1) I like sports
2) I like money
These sports generate revenue from ticket sales, concessions, and most importantly, tv contracts. If you don't like the higher salaries, vote with your wallet and stop watching and going to games.
It's no sweat off my back that athletes make that much $, because the owners would be getting it if they didn't. And more importantly, who cares? If you want to spend that much $ to go to a game, don't whine when you see players and owners being paid with your cash. You are being entertained (by some teams at least.. my Steelers suck this year
Re:Bullshit. (Score:2)
I'll let a doctor explain it, as I lack both the inclination and the expertise to do so with authority.
-excerpt from an article [pacpub.com] in the Princeton Packet, by the clinical director of the Princeton ADD center.
Sesame Street (Score:2)
Another problem with SS is that it is a whole hour. This is probably too much TV in one go for an infant.
My two year old will play while her older brother watches Sesame Street, then she comes over and watches Elmo's World, which is about 10 minutes at the end, and definitely more appropriate for toddlers.
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Related to this story: (Score:2)
Still, they should be looking better if that Tomb Raider movie comes out and scores big as Lara's
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
... (Score:3)
What's that saying about you tell me, I remember 10%, you show me, I remember 30%, etc?
love,
br4dh4x0r
Re:But what about Square's FF series? (Score:2)
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
Cure your child... (Score:2)
Re:ADD and modern media (Score:2)
Okay, the "symptoms" that characterize Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, have a high correlation with the "symptoms" of giftedness. So, yes, treating it as simply a problem to be solved is probably not the best strategy.
On the other hand, the knee jerk "Don't treat creativity/individuality as a disease" response is just as wrong in the other direction. When I am medicated for my ADD (admittedly in conjunction with major depression), I am more productive and creative, because I'm actually able to follow through on what I think of.
my $.02 (Score:2)
Just look at a flock of 8-9 year old boys and you'll see what I mean.
It's too sad that we have to rely on technology for things that are developed naturally in a good environment.
Not to say I haven't duct-taped a runt or two to the tele with his n64 while babysitting...
It's just the reenactment that fills the hyperactivity =)
Which is prob. why the parents call me in the first place.
Re:ADD vs. ADHD (Score:2)
I know from my own experience, I played video games... but I guess not enough to help my ADD... or... maybe it is better than what it could have been had I not played.
Re:Why use video games... (Score:2)
Oh my God. More mixed messages. (Score:4)
...I guess parent's just can't win.
Raise your own damn kids! (Score:5)
It's simple, really. The responsibility of raising kids is the PARENT'S. We've tried to pawn it off on day care centers. We've tried to pawn it off on the schools. We've tried to pawn it off on TV. Music. Movies. Government. Anything except ourselves.
Here's the story folks; we can't suddenly plot Johnny down in front of the nintendo and pat ourselves on the back saying "well, he's learning to focus." This is such bullshit. I'm sorry to point out the obvious here, but if you want a "normal" kid, you've got to participate in their lives, and possibly rethink your definition of "normal". In this respect, I've gotta agree with the above post.
Ok, offtopic rant time! (yay)
I'm sick and tired of reading all these articles about saving the children from the evils of the world, and having every last one be a steaming pile of shit. Come on. "Write your congressman, save the children from Ozzy Osbourne!" "Support library filtering software, save the children from porn!" "Support drug prison terms, save the children from evil plants!"
People, it's a very simple idea you have to grasp: a parent should be the biggest influence in a child's life. End of story. If you're concerned about music/drugs/porn/crime/gangs/whatever, you've not talked to your kids enough. Same thing with this ADD stuff; if your child has a genuine medical condition, spend enough time with them to notice it, and get it treated. If your child is just crying out for attention (my theory on the majority of ADD cases), it's YOUR FAULT. How dare parents today hand their kids off to day care centers and schools, and sign happily on the line when some overstressed undertrained teacher says "ridalin would help". This article is just MORE fuel on the fire; one more parent is gonna buy his kid a nintendo, and say "well, they're learning... now I can work an hour later!". People are pawning their kids upbringing off on anything EXCEPT themselves. This just provides one MORE thing for 'em to use.
Here's the basics folks: If you don't want your child to act out, teach them respect. If you don't want your child to commit crimes, teach them why it's wrong. If you don't want them smoking pot, teach them it's dangerous. If you don't want them having sex early, teach them it's wrong. Don't sit your kids in front of a nintendo to learn to focus, and then complain that video games are sending the wrong messages. Don't sit them in front of the TV to learn moral values and then complain that TVs are immoral. Raise your own damn kids. Don't expect me, the government, the schools or the media to do it for you.
If my parents would have listened to counselors/teachers, I'd have been in the learning disabled program by 3rd grade. My mother got a letter suggesting that I be placed in that program, and went to the principal insisting I be IQ tested. She still breaks out the "your son has special needs; he's blessed with special talents" letter now and then. And the "your son has special needs; he's not showing satisfactory progress" one that had preceeded it. Which one do you want for YOUR kids?
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Re:I still think Southpark had the best answer.... (Score:2)
you're reading in too far about what I said. It's not about being quiet for 8 hours, but doing so when you need to. Mainly my point was about instilling a bit of discipline in wild children. This isn't the answer for severely disturbed children, but for IMHO 90% of the kids who get 1 hour ADD pronouncements.
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Re:RTFA (Score:2)
I set my threshold to +2 while browsing Slashdot comments. {grin}
I know the trolls are still there screaming but I don't have to deal with them as much. Sadly I'll miss some good comments too, but them's the breaks. Of course the jury is still out as to whether or not all of the calmness advantage is eliminated when I moderate browsing at -1 ...
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
No way (Score:2)
Interesting, but suspect (Score:2)
The idea that video games might help with ADD/ADHD is interesting, and entirely possible, as ADD people have enormous problems with prioritizing (rather an important trait, when you're being shot at by plasma-cannon-wielding maniacs from outer space!). They're also invariably untidy. (If you have an untidy car or room, you're probably ADD, bipolar, HFA, or Random Access.)
IMHO, there is one other important factor. Do ADD people REALLY WANT to be "normal"? Let's face it. "Normal" people buy Windows, act like jerks, rip off each other, and destroy their brains and bodies.
Personally, I'd say sod normality, and act like a geek. Geeks have better long-term survivability, a better overall attitude, and aren't so concerned with irrelevent differences such as age, gender, race, species, or braincell mapping.
Cluestick (and carrot) (Score:2)
If the kid concentrates and his brainwaves act "normal" his control pad works better.
Thwapp!
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Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.
Re:I still think Southpark had the best answer.... (Score:2)
--
When they get to the stage where they're asking for your help to remind them that they're wandering
This is when they've internalized your tactic and are offering a counter-tactic. Remember, ADD kids are great at playing games.
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Re:... (Score:2)
Yes, but if you read the whole article, you see that the video games aren't actually doing any curing. "Cure your child with videogames!" was a bad way to title it. They're just using the video games as positive feedback for when the children show improvement.
Re:Feeble egalitarian "equal but different" logic. (Score:2)
Re:I think there are better ways... (Score:2)
There is (now third hand) anecdotal evidence of young children becoming suicidal after ceasing treatment. And yes, this is a scare tactic as blatant as thetruth.com commercials.
As much as I enjoy a good chemical brain bath from time to time, I draw the line at giving mind-altering drugs to pre-adolescents ESPECIALLY with the expressed desire of getting them to sit down and shut up.
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Something from an ADD Kid. (Score:2)
But, I do see a problem with this: Children with ADD (as you know) do have a tendency to drift from doing what they are actually working on. Especially to things that do not pose a challenge to them.
When I would come home from grade school, I would plop myself in front of the video game consol and not look up for hours on end. Legos [lego.com] had the same effect on me as well where I would create and destroy worlds all before dinner.
Then, came the time to do home work. Home work? What's that? There was more interesting worlds to explore within the world of building blocks and little people.
Now, I have read in places and magazines where there had been the children that had ADD seem to have been "cured". When, in fact, the children with ADD had become adults with ADD. There is also an organization called CHADD [chadd.org] that deals with Children and adults with ADD.
Also, schools who would have "problem children" and usually quick to diagnose these children, just because they fit into a certain category [aacap.org] of symptoms. The children are given a label and put on drugs without a thorough diagnosis.
Now, thru CHADD [chadd.org], and other organizations, adults who are diagnosed with ADD seem to have found a nitch in where they belong in today's job market.
Those jobs do include:
The key to assisting these children is not to drug them out or to set them in front of a television or video game. Give the children something constructive to do. I think that due to my parents' work, I turned out alright.
My daddy! (Score:2)
-Ben
P.S. Is it bad for my 8 month old baby to be watching sesame street?
-1 sad
Proving ADD Doesn't Exist in These Kids (Score:2)
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy - Tommy can you hear me? (Score:2)
Pokrefke
aka - The Whiny Complainer
But what about Square's FF series? (Score:2)
video games ... promote short attention spans.... Roleplaying, on the other hand... demanding a more robust attention span.
What about activities such as Final Fantasy VII that are both roleplaying and video games?
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
Re:my $.02 (Score:2)
We build automobiles, elevators, and escalators so that we don't have to do as much physical work. Well, we start to get fat and die from heart disease so what is our fix? Jog or bike down to your local gym and use the stairmaster and treadmill to keep in shape.
LK
Re:"Langley Research Center" (Score:2)
You can learn more about the research center through this nifty Shockwave-based Interface [nasa.gov].
Re:Cure your child... (Score:2)
Next we'll be saying that all people who have certain colour skin or are from certain places are X because of who they are.
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I think there are better ways... (Score:4)
Hmmm. I once spent three hours riding with a woman who had a child diagnosed with ADHD (H is for Hyperactivity - this is more extreme than ADD). She and her child tried many things but she really wanted to avoid drugs. Eventually, she did what should be obvious to any parent who loves their children and actually spends time trying to help them be real human beings (instead of vidiots): she started to look at his attention deficit and his hyperactivity as a _good_ thing. She just basically called them something different: intense curiosity and enormous energy. She and her child talked a lot about things and eventually they came up with a really simple solution for the times when his "disability" became difficult for others around him: he would run around the block as many times as it took to burn off some of that energy. Aparently this worked marvels. His school work improved etc. etc. <miracle story continues...>.
So what's the point? Well, as other posters are sure to mention this seems to me to be another case of parents and society prefering technological solutions to solutions based on responsibility. I have recently been reading a book called How To Multiply Your Baby's Intelligence [amazon.com] which basically talks about how the nature vs. nurture issue is a moot point until we actually figure out how to take full advantage of the nuture side of the equation. The book goes on to describe so-called miraculous accomplishments by brain injured children as well as normal children such as: reading, high speed math, learning multiple languages, etc. all before the age of 3!!! I have used some of the techniques with my own son who is now 26 months old [berteig.org]. He was able to read about 40 words at age 14 months. We (my wife and I) dropped the ball and didn't continue with his learning up till now. Hopefully we are not to late.
Ever since I was a child, I have always felt that adults seriously underestimate the abilities of children. I am concerned that our diagnoses such as ADD and ADHD are really a reflection of our impatience and intollerance of children's natural abilities.
Re:The Treatment for ADD is Self Disciplin? (Score:5)
With that being said, I do agree... self disciplin can help some with ADD. The problem is that ADD stems from a lack of a certain chemical in the brain... which is interesting... because that means that the drugs that we do take are stimulants...
I know that with the proper mixture of self disciplin and medicine, some people that have ADD never appear to have the problem. On the flip side, I know that I have problems remembering to take my medicine. Sort of a catch 22.
I came from a household where self disciplin and being responsible for what you are doing was important. I feel the same way. I still have problems with it. Is it because I have no self disciplin... I don't think so.
I think that the core of the problem comes from the fact that those with ADD strugle with self disciplin. That is why that alone can't help people. I am supprised that prolonged concentration can help counteract ADD.
I would like to see more conclusive data than brain waves and the like.... does this study help the brain produce more of this chemical? That would make sense. I know that if a person takes more medicine than they are supposed to, the brain will lower its natural creation of the chemicals.
Re:Wow, a cure at last. (Score:2)
Re:Proving ADD Doesn't Exist in These Kids (Score:2)
This tends to mean that people with ADD have more good ideas, since they shift easily and hyperfocus, but their idea tend to be less useful to them, because they tend to be about something other than what they're intending to think about.
Learning to control their focus when they want to can be very helpful for this reason; in some situations it's better not to have ADD, while in others it's beneficial. Being able to switch under your own control is really helpful.
Just because it can be controlled without drugs doesn't mean it's not a neurochemical disorder, either. A large portion of what the brain does is produce drugs for itself, so being able to control it mentally may involve producing the right neurotransmitters to get a more normal mix.
At least one common form of dyslexia, caused in part, ironically, by some video games, makes it nearly impossible to read, but can be fixed by covering parts of the text that aren't being read. Still, the problem manifests itself in ways that can be measured objectively (the person is trained to respond to somewhere next to where they're looking, i.e., the place stuff will happen next in a side-scrolling video game).
Re:Why use video games... (Score:2)
The Ritalin actually stimulates the neurons in those parts of the brain which actively suppress activity in other parts of the brain, which causes the sufferer to have much more control over their attention & behavior.
ADD, ADHD, or both? (Score:2)
I imagine that video games and other forms of treatment will work differently based on what exactly the child has.
On a side note, on of the items they used to diagnose my ADD was a computer program, much like a video game, that measured response time over a certain amount of time. It was on an Apple IIe if I can remember correctly. The idea was to press a button every time a square appeared inside another square... or something like that.
You weren't the first to think of AD&D. (Score:2)
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
Re:my $.02 (Score:2)
RTFA (Score:4)
It is possible to learn to be calm under high pressure situations. I spent a semester at the US Air Force Academy (found out that not everyone in the Air Force flew fighter planes 24/7, and I had no chance of being one of those that did). I am still amazed at how much calmer I was under nearly all situations when I came home. I was rather high strung before that stint. The video games are the same as the upperclassmen yelling contradictory orders in our face. There is a high-stress situation that must be handled calmly (any sign of being flustered was a sure ticket of more 'treatment').
Currently, video games offer the stress, but there is nothing to force it to be handled with serenity. My youngest son is border ADD (he ain't touching Ridlin), and I think this would help him. But I'd like to get one of these devices to use myself. I'm a little to high strung (USAFA was 15yrs ago), and I think this would be better than meditation.
Why use video games... (Score:3)
Bipolar disorder is frequently mistaken for ADD (Score:2)
It's interesting to note how few adults maintain ADD's symptomatic behavior and the fact that so few children are diagnosed Bipolar. They numbers are nearly inversely proportional. I'm not saying ADD doesn't exist, but it's a phenomenon worth noting.
But why? (Score:4)
Although, when you mix the two, there's trouble... at least, that's the story at my local Baldur's Gate Anonymous group...
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while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
Re:Feeble egalitarian "equal but different" logic. (Score:2)
However, there aren't enough of them. So the standards have to be lowered so that people who can't get higher paying jobs can make it through the curriculum.
If teacher pay scales went up 50% across the board, I bet we would see a dramatic increase in the number of good and excellent teachers. Unfortunately, in the current political climate it seems the only way this is going to happen is through further privatization of schools, which is IMO, a bad thing.
Also there are some good ones out there already. I was privleged to encounter many excellent teachers throughout my K-12 career, while my brother, 2 years younger, had teachers ranging from bad to worse. In the same school system. If it wasn't for one of my 3rd grade teachers, I would probably be a high school dropout professional stoner mooching off my parents.
Bullshit. (Score:2)
An ability to concentrate on *certain things* does *not* indicate a lack of ADD.
I have taken numerous tests designed to diagnose the disorder, including brainwave analysis, and have tested positively on all of them.
A symptom that frequently goes along with ADD is tendency for the attention to *fixate* on certain things, to such a point that all other stimuli are effectively blocked out, somewhat analogous to mental "tunnel vision".
Before I had undertaken any treatment for ADD, I had been observed several times to pick up a book and read for upwards of 6 hours or so, without eating, getting up, etc., because my attention had become so fixated on the activity at hand that I was almost physically incapable of stopping until the book ~4-500pages was finished.
In the same way, I have seen people incapable of finishing a single sentence without being distracted by a shiny object(slight exaggeration) play Quake for hours numbering in the double digits (no exaggeration).
(Lack of) Attention Span (Score:2)
Don't feel too bad Rob, just look at all the people on /. who can't be bothered to RTFA before they post.
(Read the Funny Articles).
Re:ADD and modern media (Score:2)
However, both are frequently mis-diagnosed, largely by non-professionals because a normal person may exhibit many of the same symptoms, but without the chemical imbalance. I have known several people with ADD, to whom Ritalin was a godsend. This contributes to the overperscription, because to the people genuinely afflicted, it is a miracle drug.
Many bright children, in particular, are mis-diagnosed as having ADD by teachers who notice that they don't pay attention. In many cases this is because the students are so far ahead of the teachers that they might as well be in their own world. Or, they give up on waiting for the rest of the class to catch up, and start reading (this is what I always did). The solution to this is to seperate students out by learning speeds and teach them differently. However, this is usually criticized as elitism and unfair. I went to 1-4 at a school that did that kind of tracking (well, they started in 3rd grade, I think), and 5-8 in a system that was only concerned with brining each student up to "state norms", and I can say without a doubt that what is totally unfair is to refuse to teach each student at the rate they want and are able to learn.
Re:Why use video games... (Score:2)
Ironically, it seems to have a calming effect on some people. The mechanism is unknown, mainly because no one really knows what causes ADHD.
It is entirely possible that the guy you knew had been mis-prescribed.
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Selective learning (Score:2)
And yes, that was sarcasm... we all know water should beat fire... that's part of my point. Sure, you can memorize every map on Final Fantasy II, but can you find your way form Boston to Seattle?
Re:Did you read the article? (Score:2)
The brainwaves of these kids are measured and used to make the controls to the games more or less responsive. The only reason they use video games is because it's a tedious process where kids have a tendency to get bored.
my son (Score:2)
we took him to a doctor. The doctor did not test him. He simply asked; "is your son able to pay attention to video games?" To which we emphatically replied "yes."
"then your son does NOT need to go on Ritalin, and does NOT have ADD or ADHD".
duh.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
yer missing the value... (Score:3)
My experience/outlook on it is this. ADD and ADHD kids, by definition, have problems with attention spans. Having previously worked in a computer lab for children who are disabled/handicapped/ADD + ADHD/other various distresses, I can say with confidence that computers in general are of -huge- benefit in these cases, especially with ADD/ADHD. Kids who would normally be off the wall could come in to the lab, sit down in front of a computer for hours upon hours, and play educational games, draw, have fun, etc...without hardly ever losing their attention. Because of computers, whole worlds of education and fun are being opened up for kids who would, 15 years ago, be merely chastised and termed "stupid" (I know this as well, because it happened to someone close to me. It wasn't until he was in his 2nd year of college that he finally got the recognition of his disorder that he needed to successfully learn. Previously, he had merely been thought to be of a lower level of intelligence; now, because he was recognized to have ADHD, and in addition took a liking to computers, he's making 6 digits and is quite a reputable employee.)...
My point is, the mainstream realization of this can have profoundly positive affects on the ADD/ADHD community, and I'm all for it.
Re:my $.02 (Score:2)
It's not actually the video games that give the effect that this article explores. The video game is just one way to apply the biofeedback. I've actually participated in something similar to this, only less fun. I had a couple leads attached to my head and a computer screen showing my brain wave spectrum.
Apparently, a certain part of that spectrum is the part that is associated with the difficulty concentrating that characterizes ADD. If a person (me) is able to look at the specific part of the brain wave spectrum, and see that when that type of brain activity increases, with the increase causing the computer to emit an annoying tone, the person can, after a little practice, actually control those specific brain waves to a large degree, and thereby avoid the annoying tone. Eventually, it becomes almost unconscious, like second nature, and suppressing the undesirable waves becomes automatic, more or less.
Looks like the difference between that, and the technique in the article, is that the video game is able to provide both negative(bad control) *and* positive(good control) feedback, rather than just negative.
In any case, watching your own brainwaves and changing them with conscious effort is trippy as hell, to say the least.
The equipment necessary for the sort of biofeedback therapy I received wasn't really that complex/expensive, either, seems like this stuff could be almost mass-produced and maybe prescribed/sent home and installed on a home computer.
I say, break out the biofeedback videogames!
ADD and modern media (Score:5)
Perhaps if our society had less influences from corporate behemonths selling soundbites to our children, we could see some real improvement.
You are more than the sum of what you consume.
Re:Why use video games... (Score:2)
Ritalin dropoff in rear.
Seriously that's not funny. We have a major drug abuse problem and It's NOT those who decide to do drugs like weed and cocaine.
it's RITALIN!
Re:I do blame parents (Score:2)
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the joys of research! (Score:2)
I've read a lot of research which says that video games help cause ADD. Now they research that it causes it. I wonder if a different criteria was used perhaps, such as the person paying attention to the video game (in this study), and the person paying attention to other stimuli and people (other studies), the later being what I would prefer them research - lets face it, in the grand scheme of things, it dosen't really matter if you concentrate on a video game.
Damn! (Score:3)
If only this article came out in 1982 when my parents didn't want me to play Atari...
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"Langley Research Center" (Score:5)
"We're just testing to see how children playing video games helps ADD. What are the games? Well, for one, the kids pretend to fly little robotic cameras around the Chinese embassy. Another is called "Cracking the Keys of the Evil Doctor P. G. P." Really fun stuff. Oh, and yeah, it helps their ADD."
Re:DEPENDS on the game (Score:2)
Re:Not mixed at all. (Score:2)
Re:ADD and modern media (Score:2)
I think that ADD is very much overdiagnosed, to make kids easier for their parents or teachers to deal with, but there are cases in which ADD is a real problem for some of these kids.
I do blame parents (Score:2)
As someone who was put on Ritalin briefly as a child (and vividly recall how the beauty and luster of the world was drained as a result, replaced by a torpid and colorless place one wouldn't recognize), I do blame parents for doping up their children. A little dietary change (hint: avoid artificial colorings and preservatives), a litte attention, and a little breathing room to play do (and did) wonders.
It is very indicative of just how degenerate and selfish our society has become, that parents routinely drug their children to achieve desirable behavior, then turn around and drug themselves with prozac, caffein, or alcohol to fill the emptiness of their own sorry existence. All the while condemning users of other, alternative chemicals and waging a war on their lifestyles that is consting all of us our most fundamental rights.
How soon before we have a pill for those suffering from Consumerist Assimulation Disorder (read: those unwilling to mindlessly consume and not talk back)? Credzac, anyone (free with a $25 purchase applied to your new Visa or MasterCard, limited time offer, hurry now!)
I still think Southpark had the best answer.... (Score:2)
Basically you have a bunch of kids sitting in desks flipping out. The doctor walks in, smacks the first kid upside the head and yells "Sit down, shut up, and study!!"
Same thing is done to the next kid. The third kid is already quiet (in shock of someone telling him what to do) and reading.
Discipline works a lot better drugs. Giving kids a free head and *expecting* them to want and sit quiet and learn is asking for anarchy. If you love your child enough to give them drugs, do you love them enough to smack 'em upside the head?
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Cure worse than Disease? (Score:2)
Sure, I can pay attention to video games. I think the word is addiction.
"I see your little Nivlem is able to pay attention to something for more than 20 minutes, wonderful!"
"Yes, but then we have to unplug it to get him away from it."
Well, perhaps with the right parental supervision. Supervising the parents, that is
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
Neurofeedback therapy clinic in CT (Score:3)
Re:Feeble egalitarian "equal but different" logic. (Score:2)
So you would rather the owners of the franchises get all the money?
There is a tremendous amount of revenue generated. It's only fair that players get their cut, regardless of if it's thousands or millions. It's not a situation where if the athlete only made 100K, you could hire X more teachers. That's just more money in the pockets of the team owners.
Bzzzzzzzzztttttt! (Score:2)
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The brainwaves of children playing the games are monitored and used to calibrate the performance of the joystick or gamepad being used to play the game.
Bzzzzzzzzztttttt!When the children produce the right sort of brainwaves the joystick becomes more responsive reinforcing the behaviour.
That's right, electo-shock therapy to cure people of being crap at sonic the hedgehog :-)
I like it.
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In America, increasing numbers of children are being treated for ADD and many doctors are prescribing drugs such as Ritalin to calm them down and help them expand their attention span.
Yeah, seriously - without starting a flamewar - anything has got to be better than just putting kids on dope. (I'm not condemming parents who use Ritalin - I'm just saying, developing new treatments is a good thing).Earlier this year the annual report of the International Narcotics Control Board found that, in some American schools, up to 40% of children in a class were being given Ritalin.
Makes the war on drugs seem a bit silly.
G
It's because they're FUN... (Score:2)
It's because videogames have the imagery of being FUN. Now, if we could use this knowledge and have the ADD kids use edutainment that has the imagery of being FUN, they can learn just as fast, if not faster, than the other kids.
Some people I've known with ADD are really smart. Even I have a very mild case of ADD. Make something fun, and we'll pay attention.
Yeah, right ... (Score:2)
They obviously aren't talking about Quake III, which leaves me as wired as a couple of 20 oz. Mountain Dews. In the words of Arlo Guthrie, "Kill! Kill! Kill!"
I wonder if ADD afflicted children are more susceptible to the siezures sometimes caused by video games?
It works (Score:5)
Luckily though, my brother (his father), like me, is a big computer/console game junkie. He discovered early on that my nephew not only would play the games but actually excelled at them in a savant kind of way. God knows he kicked MY ass enough times on N64.
But what this did was provide the child with an avenue for communication. Some of these games were fairly difficult and he needed to ask someone how to get past a part. Now I'm not sure that's what they mean here but ANY avenue in that situation is really a blessing in disguise.
He gets better daily. I still remember the day he initiated a conversation and called me "Uncle". It gave me that warm, gushy feeling.
I've always scoffed at the supposed evil of video games. It's nice to see some scientific evidence saying the same.