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Games Entertainment

Trailer For First Person Shooter Documentary 86

Posted by Hemos from the behind-the-curtains-with-quake dept.
bob jacoby writes: "As reported by the Cyberathlete Professional League, Butterdish Studios has posted a sneak preview trailer for Frag , a documentary focusing on the business, technology and competition of the 3D gaming industry. Frag is currently in production and scheduled for released on January 1st, 2001."
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Trailer for First Person Shooter Documentary More

Trailer for First Person Shooter Documentary

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  • Ahhh, what the hell good is it if it's only available in ASF format? I'm getting more and more sick of that, and it's only getting worse.

  • Mom will be proud (Score:5)

    by bluesclues ( 40988 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:30PM (#792862)
    A documentary of me sitting around in my underware, yelling at the computer monitor, I always new I'd make it to the big time.
  • Check out www.pringo.com/quakers.html if you're into that sort of thing.

  • Uhhh.. Riiiightt.. (Score:3)

    by Tarnar ( 20289 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:33PM (#792864) Homepage
    Am I the only one who thinks the whole 'glamour' that's developing around the computer gaming industry is a bunch of crap? I've gamed all my life, and I still do. But the ego wars, the "professional gamers" and what not..

    I guess you could say "This ain't your Daddy's Wolfenstein." Is anyone else struck by the utter absurdity of it all? The developers aren't Gods, and getting 500 frags in a Quake tournamen't won't get you laid!
  • The VERY first FPS was Wolfenstein 3-d. It was probably the most efficient game engine of its time, but level design was rudimentary. DOOM was the first networkable FPS; 4 computers, an IPX network, and you're ready to go.
  • If you don't want to see the flash presentation, go here. [fragthemovie.com] The presentation is just moving text and a hexagon turning red. . . entertaining, while still taking 2 minutes to load.
  • from the gamers who log an ungodly amount of hours developing their skills

    I'm a gamer (a little anyway), but I thought skills where things that help you accomplish a task, make you a little money, or push you forward in life. Sorry but I don't see fragging 500 people in a tourney as a skill.

    Aww hell, I'll probably watch the documentary anyway.

  • I don't think so, Tim. There's girls in this trailer.

    I'd put this under fantasy, how many girls get involved in any LANs that you have been too? And scantly clad ones at that? I think these people are in a little fantasy world :)

  • First Person Shooter: Documentary? That *has* to be a new category.

    "And now, the life and times of Duke Nukem: once a side-scrolling adventurer, he finally realized his potential in Duke3D."...

    No, I don't think it'll ever fly. Unless they enter 'idspispopd', of course. :)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
  • Try to look on the bright side; at least it isn't streaming only [slashdot.org], so you don't have to use ASF Recorder [freshmeat.net]. Dunno if they've put any self-destructs or other "encryption" in it, but a quick run through UnFuck [swipnet.se] should take care of that.

  • Oh joy. (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:47PM (#792871)
    Why the fuck does everyone feel that they have to interview KillCreek? She's not all that good. I've beaten John Romero, most of my clan mates have beaten John Romero. One of my clan mates works for him! What's the big deal?! Is it because she stooped so low as to do a playboy deal? Does that mean she deserves attention? She's such a slut! You can thank her for most of the horrible things in Daikatana (Okay, thank her for Daikatana.)

    They should interview the players that are actually good. The people that have been here since the beginning, not the people who came just to make the money.

    "This isn't the future of gaming, this is the here and now!" The guy that said that in the clip: Calm the fuck down! It's just games. You don't need to yell it at everyone. You don't need to jump up and down and scream it into a microphone. People need to stop hyping and start understanding that it's more than just the games and the media whores that play them. It's about the people who made the games what they are today. The Carmacks, Takacs, and Steeds of the world. The ones who made it cool to game. Not the ones who made it cool to use gaming to get a dick in your pants (or vice versa, as the gender may be)
  • I didn't think the website was that good or informative...
    I got to get my self a real job as a gamer, and quit this silly job with programming Intranets, websites etc...
    "Hi hon, wow I shot some good heads today at work, I used the railgun mostly. How was your day?"

  • John Romero Looks Sad (Score:3)

    by mochaone ( 59034 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:47PM (#792873)
    Guess that pic must have been taken right after he got the 1st week sales figures for Daikatana.

    P.S. Hi fatty.

  • Re:Uhhh.. Riiiightt.. (Score:4)

    by Bieeardo ( 123434 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:51PM (#792874)
    I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that the "PGL" is a load of horseshit. I mean, they're glorifying the twitch reflex, and the ability to run a flipping maze. Given the hardware that these guys are using, and the time that they've thrown into becoming "l33t", I could probably kick ass with the best of them.

    Jesus H. Christ, Thresh and Co. are merely older and slicker versions of Thor Ackerlund (or whatever the name of the once-famous "Nintendo Wizard" was). If anyone offered me a million dollars or a Ferrari in return for showing off my Diablo II skillz, I'd have to make sure that he wasn't carrying any sharp objects, and then get myself away from the lunatic as fast as possible.

    I don't think that I'll be very impressed with "Frag". I mean, does the computer gaming "community" really need its own half-assed answer to the "Trekkies" documentary?

  • I'm disappointed (Score:4)

    by Captain Pillbug ( 12523 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:51PM (#792875)
    I was expecting a Fraggle movie. Don't let the man get you down, Wimbley!
  • If you look at the stills [fragthemovie.com] page, there are a lot of Gateway boxes and signs in the background. Makes me wonder if and why Gateway would sponsor Frag.

  • I can see the film production meeting now... (Score:3)

    by TheMZA ( 214353 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:55PM (#792877) Homepage
    Okay for the trailer. 1) Let's add techno music... it'll seem just like The Matrix. 2) If we have the only female that actually speaks change clothes, no one will notice she's the only female gamer. 3) Don't forget to overlay the the crowd reaction sound track into the shot. and most important 4) Somebody call "The Pimp Mack Daddy of Video Games" we have to get him in the trailer.

  • Nickname (Score:3)

    by batobin ( 10158 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @04:56PM (#792878) Homepage
    People called me Frag in high school, minus the R...
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The Soap Opera that went on over at ID Software for awhile. I like to hear those stories, and they're hard to find exept for the recent one about the time they announced Doom3 and Reeds departure.
  • Its better than a 30 meg mpeg file, or horrible quality quicktime cinepak. Don't get me started on realvideo.
  • Great a friggin trailer, in goddamn windows media format. Thats soooooo useful.

    I'd venture to bet that the majority of slashdot readers either 1) run an operating system that doesn't do windows media, or 2) are too damn stupid to but wish they could.

    -- Greg

  • Sometimes they scare me (Score:4)

    by BadBlood ( 134525 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @05:12PM (#792883)
    Now don't get me wrong, I've been to LAN parties and used to consider myself a pretty good FPS player. I've won my share of internet games be it on dialup or cable.
    However, after seeing the dedication and "mad skillz" some of these near full-time players, I'm simply amazed. I don't want to denigrate their abilities, but really, what's it all worth?
    All that investment in playing and perfecting that 180-degree spin-rocket jump-switch to railgun-mid-air frag doesn't amount to much anywhere else except in that virtual world. Isn't there anything more constructive to do? Again, don't get me wrong, I love to play, but I think I do so in moderation. I can't imagine that these skills are developed overnight, so investing all those hours and hours of playing just seems so wasteful.
    Or maybe I'm just jealous....:)

  • OK, so its not everyones cup of tes, but for the .01% of us that are obsessed with this stuff, I dig it.

    Ill enjoy this movie when it comes out.

    I've always thought that a documentary on the internet quake community at large would be quite fascinating. Rather then the pros, what about the thousands that play on the net everyday.

    Quake is what got me into linux in the first place.

  • Does anybody see computer gaming becoming somthing you watch on ESPN every day for the latest frag action? It seems like more recently the gamers are becoming more reconized and those nerds who sit at home playing instead of telecommuting (You know who you are! Dirty bastards!) are coming 'out of the closet' and showing their stuff. seems pretty amazing what some people do, wish I was that good.
  • Just which version of Doom came with a level editor?

    -Peter

  • Oh come on, asf sucks compared to realvideo. At least realvideo doesn't freeze if you get the tiniest little error in the encoding (like just about every asf seems to have).

    At least you can play realvideo under Linux/FreeBSD/Irix/etc... Plus ASF always looks like ass, even when people encode it at high bitrates, at least realvideo is watchable at 300kbps.
  • I know I'm jealous. Not enough that I'm going to actually sit down and train to perfect some movement or anything-I play games for FUN. Still, when some guy is whooping ass and has 20+ kills over everyone in the game syou can't help but thinking "DAMN!" Do what I do, pretend that person sucks at something you do well. For example, if you happen to beat me online in some game it becomes obvious to me that you're that good because you suck at programming. Somehow that makes me feel better :)

    l33t skillz 0f gamez *sigh*

  • BLOOD !!!!
    Spiffy graphics do not make a good game. Blood's graphics were crap, but man is it fun to play on my friend's lan.

    I live ... again.
  • Given the [car|bike|skates|skiis|etc.] that these guys are using, and the time that they've thrown into [becoming an expert at using it] I could probably kick ass with the best of them.

    OK. So go win an Olympic(tm) ski jump medal. Should be about as easy as winning a national quake championship. Just takes a lot of practice, right? Anybody call fall down a hill...

    - Isaac =)
  • ROFL.

    True, to an extent. But don't think you can equate computer gaming to a high intensity sport. The only fair comparison that I can make is that a gamer has most of the reflexes of a trained athlete, but none of the physical strength or mental discipline.

    After all, how many ski jumpers go around saying "d00d!! I cl3ared 4 g1bs0n$!! 1M l33t!!"
  • From the Article:On December 10, 1993 a somewhat successful but modest computer game developer by the name of id Software released a game called Doom. This game defined 3D action games and became an industry all its own.

    It was actually Wolfenstein 3D [gameznet.com] that gave birth to FPS. How quickly we forget.

    Recent DMCA/RIAA/UCTA/MPAA revelations got you down? Think democracy still works in America? or has it been BOUGHT by corporatist pigs. WAKE UP AMERICA! Its not going to end no matter how much you bitch on /. TELL YOUR FRIENDS! AND:
  • You're right. I do exactly the same thing. For me, I say "I can out-bench that guy." I can bench over 350lbs. so it is possible. Unless that guy is Jason Hall or another King of teh Monsters :)

  • Re:Sometimes they scare me (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Seen on one console:

    l33t-gamer killed kb9vcr with railgun
    kb9vcr: No Way, I was jumping, ducking, strafing, rocket jumping and had the ultrainvisathingy! No way he could kill me!
    l33t-gamer: 0wn3d!!
    kb9vcr: At least I'm a better programmer then you!
    l33t-gamer changed name to "John Carmack"
    kb9vcr: Oh please God, just kill me now!
  • Ok, I was there in the Quake II days. I had played Doom and Wolfenstein 3-D. I played a little quake on the side. I had even went head to head over a lan playing Doom. However, I got into playing Quake II over the net and loved it.

    What I don't hear people talking about are the llamas and the a**holes who try to ruin it for everyone else. I got out and stopped playing when it was impossible to play a game without a few players making the opportunity to bitch and whine at each other through the whole match. I did not get on to play against real people to get verbally asaulted or watch endless messages from people cursing at each other. It got to the point where it was not that fun.

    Plus, I was on a 33.6 connection and all the lpbs were eating my lunch anyway and bitching all the time because I was using grenades or rocket launchers. Annoying.

  • Does anybody at all notice the pun in the name of the html page...Quakers- pacifists, or FPS players?

  • Isn't there anything more constructive to do?

    Yes! I look back on my days playing Joust, Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong (I know I'm dating myself here) and all the others with a sense of time lost. For goodness sakes, I sat there for HOURS playing Bump 'N Jump to get a worlds high score. I could have learned Calculus in the same time.

    And btw, this holds for developers of games too. Carmack and friends could put their skills to more positive ends designing medical software, or some other positive work rather than rendering polygons. I wanted to ask Carmack about it during his interview, but I couldn't seem to get the question to NOT sound like flame bait.

    Which is because I'm not a very good writer. Which is because I went to a state college. Which is because my grades and extracurriculars were lacking.

    Which is because I spent all my damn time wasting hard earned money on video games.

  • Yeah, yeah, I've read all the moderated-up bitching and complaining about how cyber-gaming doesn't translate to real-world skills.

    However, after all the complaining is over and all the hot air that was spoken has risen, the fact is that little in the way of public entertainment has "real-world value".

    Not baseball.
    Not basketball.
    Not WWF wrestling.

    Actually, let's just toss out sports in general- the "real-world benefits" are infinitesimal.

    The fact is, many enjoy playing FPS games, and there is a growing market for FPS's as a spectator sport.

    I say this as someone who doesn't play regularly, though I had my time of QuakeFever.

    It's easy to bitch about the uselessness of someone else's efforts, harder to get off your AC butt and show us with your actions what, to you, has "real world value".
  • Yes, but Looking Glass i believe had the first '3d' game with Ultima Underworld, which was in many ways superior to Wolf3d.
  • black and white aren't colors - down to 20

  • "Trash Talk" (Score:5)

    by rattid ( 214610 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @07:09PM (#792902)
    I love gaming. I game a lot. But Ive noticed a depressing chain the past few years.

    I remember about 4-5 years ago in the War2 community. People seemed intellegent. People were nice. There was a community, and it was great. Yes there was the occasional "trash-talk" between clans (heh, Stormreavers). But generally, at least for me, I could play games for fun.

    Now I look at the war2 community, and its terrible. People talk like "i raped u srub" or "0wNed". I cant stand it. I used to be able to talk with people after games in KChat. Now, I avoid it as much as possible. And all this trash-talking that goes back and forth. Its pointless. Its an f-ing computer game. Its a real fun one, its a real deep one, its a competitive one, but its a computer game. When people start insulting each other and become obsessed with winning... its just sad.

    Im sorry, I just want to play games like I used to :(

  • That's the best troll I've read all week.

    Keep up the good work!

  • The thing is that if you've learned to be really really good at something, it makes it easier to be really good at other things. You learn to be skilled, and to learn, in general.

    So while it's a pretty useless skill outside Quake, I don't think they're wasting their time at all!

    I hear Zen monks use archery (or more recently Darts) for this purpose.
  • Did you notice how in that whole tailer, nobody was even fragged in those screenshots? For real, go look at it again. And these guys are supposed to be pros in a documentary?

  • 1:26
    watch it agin

  • I believe the pgl is or was sponsored by Gateway at some point. Quakecon probably is or has been as well. Since the film crew will be at events sponsored by Gateway you will see a lot of Gateway boxes and banners.
  • Its worth exactly as much as the usual sporting skills - bugger all. Being able to do a "180-degree spin-rocket jump-switch to railgun-mid-air frag" is as useful as being able to throw a disk a few hundred meters (or whatever). Funny how one is seen as pathetic and half the world is obsessed with the other.

    (IMO think they are both pretty pathetic, at the 'professional' level that is, who doesn't like a good frag every now and then?)

  • On professional gaming... (Score:3)

    by DR_glock ( 129204 ) on Friday September 08, 2000 @08:32PM (#792909)

    Let me start by saying that I love FPS gaming. I have been playing competitively online since the initial release of Quake (*sigh* hard to believe it's been 4 years now) and I am an absolute junky. Not only have I logged countless hours fragging bodies into the wee hours of the night, but I also frequently attend LAN parties. As someone who represents the "hardcore" online gaming community, I feel an obligation to speak my mind on the subject of professional gaming.

    Ahh... Capitalism.

    What is the ultimate goal of professional gaming? To make money. The sponsors want to make money. The gaming organization wants to make money. But most importantly, the gamers want to make money. The concept of professional gaming is inheritly flawed. Whatever happened to playing games for *gasp* fun? It amazes me that while I'm enjoying my nice afterwork game of |insert game title here|, somewhere there is a kid sweating out how much money he is making from the tourney he's playing in this week... or whether or not he is going to retain his sponsor if he loses again. Last time I checked, games (especially of the video game variety) were designed for personal enjoyment.

    Professional Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming

    See: Inheritly flawed. With all the high stakes at hand during "professional" gaming events, it's no secret that pro tournament games are usually less entertaining than the more casual online tourney or pickup game. This is especially true in 1on1 gameplay. In general, players are much less aggresive and exciting to watch when they know money is on the line. I can't argue with them.. when you're investing so much time of your life to one thing, can you really afford to be so bold? How can anyone in their right mind tote Pro-Gaming as a spectator sport when the best games I've seen from tourneys are usually warm-up matches between the players. And you can't ask for better displays of competitive gaming than the early online Quake tourneys where the only thing the players were fighting for was their clan's pride and respect.

    Is FPS gaming a sport?

    Sure, it's a sport. Regardless if what anyone thinks, it takes a certain amount of reflex, skill, and intelligence to be a very good FPS gamer. A spectator sport it is not. As much as I play, I still find game demos mainly drab and unentertaining (unless they are showing me a new strategy or tactic). With that in mind, why in the hell would I need to see the actual player sitting at his computer twitching his mouse and delicately manuevering across his keyboard. Does this qualify as a spectator sport? Certainly not. But some companies would have you believe so.

    And that's about all I have to say about that...

    DR_Glock

    Clan Dark Requiem

    http://dr.stomped.com [stomped.com]

  • I'd highly disagree. All of my practice hours in Unreal Tournament go into earning the big bucks in the big tournaments. Sure, it's not *physically* demanding, it's mentally demanding. Would you say Gary Karposav doesn't deserve the checks he gets from winning chess?
  • Origin you mean.

    Ultima Underworld's engine was the equivalent of the doom engine with the ability to look up and down. It ran decently on a 386, but only half the screen was used for the display.

    -Restil
  • Once again, fine line. Chess is a very logical and structured game. It requires a high level of mental discipline.

    Unreal Tournament is an action game. It requires reflexes. Fairly tuned ones as well if a 360 degree circle is physically manifested as a 3 inch mouse movement.

    However, this is apples to oranges. One is a game of depth, the other is a matter of lining up pixels and pressing the trigger.

  • Psshaw...

    The difference is that the disk thrower (or any other serious athlete) has a major life-style investment in his/her sport. Athletics require physical conditioning even beyond that needed for the actual game. There are weight training and diets to consider before you even hit the playing field.

    What kind of additional training beyond simply playing the same game over and over again does a gamer require? None. Practice makes perfect.

    The human body is a complex machine. Tuning it to peak performance for the ascent to the "next level" isn't as simple as installing the latest and greatest video card/processor/input device combo and then loading up with caffeine for a few hours of FPS while you polishing the chair with your fat ass.

  • It looks to me like a concerted advertising effort on behalf of the wonderful people at the CPL.

    Anyway I always thought John Romero was "The Pimp Mack Daddy of Video Games", I guess having only one girl doesn't make you a real pimp.

  • But don't think you can equate computer gaming to a high intensity sport.

    What about table tennis? While most Westerners think of "ping pong" as an amusing pastime, it's very much considered a serious sport in Asia. If you've seen some of the top-ranked Chinese players you've got to have a pile of respect for their freakish reaction time and motor control. I'd expect that they'd make pretty good computer gamers...

    After all, how many ski jumpers go around saying "d00d!! I cl3ared 4 g1bs0n$!! 1M l33t!!"

    Have you ever listened to a sprinter? Their posturing sounds pretty much like a different dialect of "1M 1h3 13373s7 of a11!".

  • I find watching FPS gaming to be 10 times more entertaining than watching golf, which, judging by its airing on major television networks, is a spectator sport. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong.
  • It's no different to spending months increasing your C++ skills, or years becoming a chaess Grand-Master, or learning to play the piano, or becoming the worlds fastest skateboarder.

    All of these things are personal choices. We become obsessed with something and decided to be the best we can be. The choice (if it is a choice) of what to be obsessed by is mere aesthetics.

    Personally, I prefer to be a synthesist. I like being pretty good at lots of things rather than the best at one thing.
    _____
  • There's yet another FPS documentary, this one with a pedigree. Anna Kang, who's married to John Carmack of id Software, owns a company called Fountainhead Entertainment. That company is working on a documentary called Gamers [fountainheadent.com] and it, too, has a trailer.


    --

  • I saw a couple "You have killed whatsisname" messages on the screen. The trailer's visual quality stinks though so it's hard to make out... not to mention the instance where the player being observed gets fragged, and then the gratuitous gibbing at the end of the trailer.
    ---
    Where can the word be found, where can the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence.
  • It's mental training, not physical. As someone mentioned above, you could make the same argument about grand chessmasters--they just sit around on their fat ass analyzing the board. No physical conditioning whatsoever. Different activities practice different things, chess is deep contemplation, video games are mental quickness, and olympics are one dimensional physical performance (such as throwing a javelin).
  • I mean was it really necesarry to show all those screen shots? You can tell who's pulling the strings on this one...


    Initial verdict: Boring, lots of stuff a gamer already knows and possibly a good interview or two (in comparison to the 8-14 crappy interviews)


    Trailer Rating: 1.5 (out of 5)

    Capt. Ron

  • okay, it doesn't -ALWAYS- work. ;)
  • Imho, don't take it too seriously. Internet communities all eventually either die out or are invaded by hordes of lamers. That's just life. Look at what happened to usenet.

    Just move on, find another community or game that you like, or play only with your own personal clique of friends (that's what I do now).

    Also, your memories of Kali are probably much too rosy :). I know that when I played, I met lots of idiots who insult me when I grunt rush them, people who only played on GOW high resources, people on 9600 baud modems, cheaters, racists, etc. But of course all I remember are the really good games I had.

  • Actually, Catacombs 3-D.

    Catacombs was more like Gauntlet.

  • Re:Uhhh.. Riiiightt.. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    True, to an extent. But don't think you can equate computer gaming to a high intensity sport. The only fair comparison that I can make is that a gamer has most of the reflexes of a trained athlete, but none of the physical strength or mental discipline.

    I think you will begin revising your opinions when computer gaming goes more into the mainstream. There is a very good mapping between the puzzle-solving in gaming and in mental fields; my work is in a purely mental field, so I speak with some authority. Yes, time is often a constraint, and always one in high-profile computer games. But you really have to look past the who "d00d" thing; if you had as many children skiing as playing Quake, you'd hear a lot of that too. At the high levels of any sport/game, you don't hear that except for the rebellious few.

    Go to www.firingsquad.com , you'll find out more about the strategy and depth of such games, as well as good analysis. Also, the defunct gamersx.com is still up for people to browse.
  • I disagree totally. There's a certain pattern and scheme I run based on the players I'm playing and the arena I'm in. There's a lot of strategy involved.

    If you're not familiar with UT, yeah, then it seems like you're pointing the mouse at a bunch of pixels and clicking. You're also the player I tend to set up in my sights. Any player who runs around shooting usually get a rude surprise coming around a corner... as their opponent ends up in back of them. I actually think there's a lot more strategy involved with the myriad of maps and players then in chess (played on a 8 by 8 board with set denominations of moves for each player).

  • Re:An important set of lessons.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm not sure if you're being serious or just trolling, but you've touched a little too close to home for me to ignore this.

    I don't believe you realise how amazingly obvious most of your comments are. You've said nothing new. Nobody ever sets out to make a "bad" first-person shooter.

    I was a programmer on a first-person shooter for two years. And now it's stuck in limbo (read: hell) while our would-be publishers work out what they want to do with it.

    While game development is something fun to do, I don't believe you realise the vast quantities of time, dedication, sweat, tears and blood that you have to put into making a commercial game.

    There are a million and one things that can go wrong with the development process, most likely factors that are outside of your control. And you can't afford to make mistakes - one false move and there will be hundreds of people on usenet whining about how your game sucks when compared to the latest offering from one of the "elite" development houses (ID, Epic).

    Not particularly encouraging when you've just dedicated two underpaid years of your life to a game that's sitting on your publisher's desk rather than on the shelf.

    Companies like ID got where they are today by being in exactly the right place at the right time, with exactly the right vision. And they had smarts to implement it. You need all three.

    You aren't going to be the next ID Software overnight. But good luck to you. May your enthusiasm make up for whatever skills you've not yet honed.
  • That wasn't my goal!!!! I merely wanted to say a few things. So my comment was long; big deal. That doesn't mean it's worthless.

    Now if I was a karma whore, I would have, say, 50 to 150 lines of "Not true!" in this post. Do you see that in here? NO.

    You're very petty. Heck, the fact that you posted this as an AC shows it (and the fact that you either a)wish you would have thought of something in there, b)don't enjoy most comments (in which case you SHOULDN'T READ THEM, or c)you are an a**).

    Be fair. I said something. It was long. Shut up about it.
  • I admit VB isn't great, but it doesn't suck.

    You wanna see what VB can do? Go to Planet Source Code [planetsourcecode.com], go to the VB section, and search for eye3D.

    That's what I was going to use. BUT, LIKE I SAID, I AM RESTARTING IN C++.
  • Looking Glass developed the engine. Origin used it to make a game. Does anyone else wish somebody would do the same for id? :)
  • people miss with rockets and railguns?????? I should start playing. 1 on 1 tournaments would be a walk in the park.

  • IMHO, physical performance is far from one dimensional.

    An athlete needs discipline to achieve greatness. It's not just physical conditioning. An olympic athlete's entire lifestyle is centered around building and maintaining the physical and mental conditioning necessary to perform at that level.

  • I actually think there's a lot more strategy involved with the myriad of maps and players then in chess (played on a 8 by 8 board with set denominations of moves for each player).

    I agree that there is a substantial amount of strategy involved in FPSes (I used to play quite a lot) but please, this is wildly exaggerating and insulting to chess players.

    Chess is a game of pure strategy: players spend 100% of their energy evaluating what they should do. Master chess players spend their entire lives memorizing patterns and learning the hundreds of complex principles governing the game. Deciding what to play takes several minutes of deep thought in a serious chess game, as opposed to the quick decisions you must take in FPSes. Furthermore, the game has been studied for centuries and we are still finding new things about it.

    So I would say that FPSes are not even remotely comparable strategy-wise to chess. You might as well compare soccer to chess. Soccer and FPSes certainly require a lot of skills and I respect players of both, but deep-strategy games they are not.

  • Actually, I think the first 3-D game of any kind would have to be Atari's "Battlezone" stand-up arcade game.

    Or if you really want to stretch the definition of "3-D game", I believe there were some very old UNIX terminal-based maze games with ASCII graphics that pre-date even Battlezone. A guy who used to work at DEC told me such games were even networkable. ASCII deathmatch -- heh!!

  • All that investment in playing and perfecting that 180-degree spin-rocket jump-switch to railgun-mid-air frag doesn't amount to much anywhere else except in that virtual world. Isn't there anything more constructive to do? Again, don't get me wrong, I love to play, but I think I do so in moderation. I can't imagine that these skills are developed overnight, so investing all those hours and hours of playing just seems so wasteful.
    Or maybe I'm just jealous....:)
    Do you watch tv sometimes? I guess you do. Will you watch Sydney and the olympic games? Maybe you will.
    Now let's compare "180-degree spin-rocket jump-switch to railgun-mid-air frag" with simple 1000m running. Those athlets are training themselfs half of their lifes to run like hell on a distance of 1000 meters to go where? No-where! They run in circles!

    I think FPS are close to become part of the olympic games....
    ;)

  • Received an email from Eric @ Butter Dish Studios and he indicated that Real, MPEG & Quicktime versions may be available on Monday.
  • I'm going through (hopefully not) the same thing with internet Unreal Tournament. There are always the newbies, racists, cheaters, and people who generally make everybody else's experience less fun. Probly it's too much effort to learn the game at home and then go online where you treat others with a modicum of respect.

    We can't do it in meatspace, why expect cyberspace to be any different? What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding? We can put men on the moooon, but when it comes to the simple things, like living together? HAH!

    I've been playing UT since it came out, and have tried to keep the profanity to a minimum, along with encouraging respect for other players. Human nature will do what it will, though. Come play and make it better. It'll be fun to get fragged by you :)
  • ...so does this mean people will go to the theaters just to see the preview of the game then leave and not watch the movie?
  • Absolutely the skillz transfer. What was the original poster's point again? Developing talent in an obscure area is scary? How many hours did I blow that saxophone "practicing"? For what? All it got me was exposure to lots of strange folks who also loved music. There's a reason it's called the online gaming community.

    And I still espouse my theory of FPS as unappreciated art form. Look at motion pictures of the early 20th century. There's a *lot* of potential there, not limited to the mid-century Hollywood community that became the focus of a communist hunt just a few years after coming to power. This could be the same movie, folks.

    Plus Also: the gamers have been THE driving (pun intended) force behind the tremendous increase in rendering capabilities of today's graphics cards. Well, the gamers and the porners.... :)

  • "and getting 500 frags in a Quake tournamen't won't get you laid!"

    Maybe not, but having $100000+ in the bank (from winning a Quake tournament) most probably will.

  • I mean, they're glorifying the twitch reflex, and the ability to run a flipping maze

    Perhaps you haven't noticed, but all sports are based on extremely simple premises (e.g. golf, "get the little ball into the hole with a stick", or soccer, "get the ball through those posts", or snooker, "knock balls into a hole with a stick", or hurdles, "fastest guy to run to a line while jumping over poles" etc etc, not to even get started on the Olympics.) In spite of this there are multi-million dollar tournaments for these games that are also incredibly stupid and overglorified, according to your arguments. I suppose you think "traditional" sports are "real" sports but computer gaming isn't? Thats pure hypocrisy.

    "Given the hardware that these guys are using, and the time that they've thrown into becoming "l33t", I could probably kick ass with the best of them"

    Yeah right; put your money where your mouth is. If you'd actually played QUake properly you'd know there is more to it than just the twitch reflex.

    Quite frankly you sound a little jealous to me.

  • "I'm a gamer (a little anyway), but I thought skills where things that help you accomplish a task, make you a little money, or push you forward in life. Sorry but I don't see fragging 500 people in a tourney as a skill"

    Well (using your definition) I don't see how knocking a little white ball into a hole with a stick is a "skill". Nonetheless it seems to have made a lot of money for Tiger woods. I don't see how throwing a ball through a little hoop is a "skill", but I don't know, it seems to have gotten Michael Jordan pretty far in life. Pushing balls into holes with a stick isn't a "skill"? It's gotten Steve Davis pretty far.

    Most sports have an extremely simple premise. That does not mean that it does not take skill to become accomplished in those sports, nor does it mean that you shouldn't be able to make money doing it.

  • "And btw, this holds for developers of games too. Carmack and friends could put their skills to more positive ends designing medical software, or some other positive work rather than rendering polygons"

    Something a lot of people don't seem to think about (perhaps partially because poverty is so scarce in the United States) is that while it may not seem to directly benefit people (in the way medicine does) creating industries around entertainment, it *does* benefit the millions of people who find jobs within these industries and make enough to live comfortably. This applies to any entertainment industry, i.e. movies and television, not just computer game. There is not much point in making wonderful advancements in medicine, if half your population can't afford those medical advancements. The gaming industry creates so many jobs that allow people to be able to afford to benefit from the medical advancements. Come live in a 3rd world ("developing") country for a while, you learn to appreciate just how valuable those jobs can be when those jobs just don't exist.

    I don't see entertainment as a waste of time myself - I work hard while I'm working, but I love to relax by (amongst other things) playing Quake. Its good to have a balance.

  • Isn't it better than turning old and grey, suddenly realizing that you never had ANY FUN in your life?

    Entertainment is supposed to be fun. If it isn't fun anymore, do something else. Just don't lose perspective on why you did play those games.

    - Steeltoe
  • 5 show up from time to time at my group's meetings. Granted most of them are wives or daughters of male members, but still they're there.
  • A sincere appeal to all parents out there: Don't let your daughers become involved in the FPS world.

    Mommas, don't let your daughters grow up to be Quakeheads...
    Don't let 'em play Unreal or Half-Life of Doom,
    Mommas don't let your daughters grow up to be Quakeheads...
    Make 'em be strippers or drive real big trucks.

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