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Games Entertainment

Infocom's Dave Lebling Interviewed 152

flip-flop writes: "The Adventure Collective has an interview with Dave Lebling, of olde Infocom fame. The quite lengthy Q&A covers topics such as the early days of Infocom, what Dave is doing these days, and even the origin of the name "Zork." A must-read for anyone old enough to remember those legendary text adventures ... *sigh* Those were the days: 'Get up. Turn on light ...'"
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Infocom's Dave Lebling Interviewed

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    ftp://ftp.monkey.org/pub/users/thom/infocom/
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:10AM (#67454)
    There is a bulldozer outside.
  • I remember that game. It's called Castaway, and its available on the interactive fiction archive. The main site ( ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/ ) is going down soon, unfortunately, but there are plenty of mirrors.
    -----------
  • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:50AM (#67456) Homepage Journal
    I tend to think of Diablo as a roguelike you can actually win.

    Is it just me or do all of the text based roguelike authors seem to have some dread fear that someone somewhere might win the game?

    I especially remember rogue (I still play it once in a while) where it seems like anytime your character starts doing good (you find the two handed sword, a ring of rust resistance (or whatever it's called), and some nice armor the RNG will decide to do you in and stop putting food on the levels, leaving your adventurer to eventually starve to death or faint while fighting a dragon.

    Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
  • I went through my old email, and, although I doubt anyone will read this comment, the site from whence you can obtain all those Infocom games on one CD is <http://www.lacegem.com/orders.html [lacegem.com]>. The page is more of an aquamarine than a peppermint, according to xcolorsel, so I don't suppose that helped much...
    --
  • by robin ( 1321 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:34AM (#67458) Homepage
    The Z-code file for the Hitchhiker's Guide is available [douglasadams.com] off Douglas Adams' web site. Download this, and buy the Activision reissue of "Classic text adventure masterpieces" and you'll have pretty much everything Infocom ever did. If you have a Pilot, put a copy of Frotz on it and you can play on the move. Some of the games have mildly annoying copy protection which means you have to look something up in the PDF manual, but by and large it's fantastic. I paid about £25 or so I think -- unfortunately I can't remember the URL, but I do remember the page was a sort of pepperminty green. Oh, and check out if-archive [ifarchive.org].
    --
  • Asylum [swobi.at] wasn't Infocom, it was published by Med Systems, and it was the most amazing thing ever published on the TRS-80. The company later did a IBM PC port that I actually saw once, but it seems to have dropped off of the face of the net.

    Asylum had a parser every bit as good as Infocom's, but they added a terrific 3d graphics display on the TRS-80's 128x48 pixel display. Asylum was immersive in a way that very few other games I have ever seen were, and in only 16k. Really one of the best adventure games ever published.

    And it was HARD.

    Med Systems [lysator.liu.se] also published an excellent adventure game called Lucifer's Realm, in which you had to go to hell and convince the devil to let you go to heaven.

    All of these games were in many ways more exciting than the Infocom ones, because they melded graphics and a first-rate adventure parser that really took advantage of the *cough* awesome power of the TRS-80.


    - jon
  • On the other hand, a 133t-speak text adventure game might be funny.

    >j00 533 4 d00r
    0p3/\/ d00r.

    >th3 d00r 15 10x0r3d.
    Un10j00 n33d 4 k3y.
  • I know I am waiting for this game.
  • I tried playing via voice some infocom games (specifically, Enchanter) using WinFrotz and Dragon NaturallySpeaking.

    Would have been fine, except Enchanter ONLY took "NE" and "northeast" to mean Go NorthEast (and same for NWSESW) and I couldn't get Dragon NS to think of NorthEast as one word...it kept separating them. And "Spell 'N','E'" didn't seem too much more successful either. I finally gave up on it.
    --
    You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
  • Not quite -- you won't be able to take the pill until you're wearing the gown:

    You wake up. The room is spinning very gently round your head. Or at least it would be if you could see it which you can't.

    It is pitch black.

    >get up
    Very difficult, but you manage it. The room is still spinning. It dips and sways a little.

    >turn on light
    Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.

    Bedroom
    The bedroom is a mess.
    It is a small bedroom with a faded carpet and old wallpaper. There is a washbasin, a chair with a tatty dressing gown slung over it, and a window with the curtains drawn. Near the exit leading south is a phone.
    There is a flathead screwdriver here.
    There is a toothbrush here.

    >get robe
    Luckily, this is large enough for you to get hold of. You notice something in the pocket.

    >open pocket
    It's hard to open or close the pocket unless you're wearing the gown.

    >wear gown
    You are now wearing your gown.

    >look in pocket
    Opening your gown reveals a thing your aunt gave you which you don't know what it is, a buffered analgesic, and pocket fluff.

    >take pill
    You swallow the tablet. After a few seconds the room begins to calm down and behave in an orderly manner. Your terrible headache goes.
  • No need for that . . . just search online for Z-code interpreters and then try to find the Z-file for the game. I found it last week, and played it through again, just for the heck of it. On the other hand, it would be fun to hook up the 800XL again. I had an 800, then an 800XL, and i first experienced HHGTG on that machine. I might have to hook mine up and play some of the old classics again . . .
  • In one of the screens from the original Commander Keen, the guys at iD were talking about how the game they were working on, Quake, would be a combination of a action game and an adventure/puzzle-solving game. It was supposed to have conversational interaction with artificial beings. Instead, it became a mindless--though technically superior--first person shooter. Why couldn't Carmack see the light? Why can't he see the light now? We're all sick of FPSs and it's time for something new.

    I want to see a FPS combined with air combat simulation, tank simulation, strategy, and adventure--a complete battlefield.

  • That looks way cool. I was planning a similar system using PHP but it seems you've beaten me to it!

    Mind you I don't have a secret passphrase so I couldn't get in to have a look at it. Is there a web page somewhere with some more details on it?
  • Oooooh... memories. =) VikingMUD was the first online game I ever played, and the only MUD I really ever got into. Now if only I could remember what the heck my password was...
  • look at today's materials.. sigh. sometimes just a bloody CD and nothing more..

    Yeah, I loved the cloth map in Ultima V (the last, great Ultima before that isometric drek); a very nice touch, and actually useful in the game, too.

  • Even Melbourne House had a few, like a Sherlock Holmes one with a decent syntax parser which could understand stuff like

    Watson, "Where is the doctor?"

    Oh, in case you've forgotten: They also had the very popular adaption of The Hobbit and the way less popular adaptions of the first two volumes of LotR.

  • That is, if you can get anywhere with them.

    I have this problem where I havn't been able to solve any interactive fiction games. I've put all of my efforts into Jigsaw lately, because it's rather big but the sub-plots are small. Maybe I'll finish it someday... I even gave up on the Kings Quest series.
  • Wasting hours and hours playing asylum and zork.
    If it wasn't for infocom I probably would have gotten my masters in CS..

    no wait, that was the beer that stopped that progress....

    Oh well :-)
  • You just have to say, "Okay. I'm serious about winning. No more screwing around." and play with that attitude in mind. That's how I ended up winning in ADOM, though I've still got a ways to go with nethack.
  • Now if only we could get a rewrite of Zork 1 in which you could kill the thief.

    You can kill the thief. He's just really tough.
  • by Chris Pimlott ( 16212 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:38AM (#67474)
    I had an idea a while ago regarding the old Infocom games.

    What if you got a good narrator to record all the text from a game, and hooked up a speech-to-text engine for input. Then you could put it on a laptop, sit back in your favorite chair, put on some headphones, close your eyes and just imagine... completely and totally immersed in the story in your mind.

    It wouldn't be too hard to do; the main impediment would be to get some decent voice talent to do the recordings. Otherwise, it should be doable entire with existing open source code.

    (okay, there is one other problem - copyright. but maybe if this was done in an open source freely available way, they wouldn't mind...)
  • there's another interview, this time with Steve Meretzky, on the same site:

    http://www.adventurecollective.com/articles/interv iew-stevemeretzky.htm [adventurecollective.com]

    from the interview:

    The revolution and evolution of the adventure genre owe much to Steve Meretzky. Fans of interactive fiction will recognize Meretzky as one of the Infocom Implementors. He is the father of such classics as Planetfall (1983), Sorcerer (1984), The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (with Douglas Adams, 1985), A Mind Forever Voyaging (1985), Leather Goddesses of Phobos (1986), Stationfall (1987), Zork Zero (1988), Spellcasting 101: Sorcerers Get all the Girls (1990), Spellcasting 201: The Sorcerer's Appliance (1991), Leather Goddesses of Phobos II (1991), and Spellcasting 301: Spring Break (1992). His last adventure game is The Space Bar in 1997.
  • You are wearing pants.
    >Open pants
    Pants are open.
    >Get hot grits
    You already have hot grits.
    >pour hot grits in pants
    Natalie Portman is petrified of hot grits in your pants.
    ...
    A CmdrTaco appears.
    >Hello.
    The CmdrTaco screams: Yuo troll! No hto girts or Natalie Protman err allowed at my diskusion bord! Your are to reed my PERL cod 5 tims befroe you're can go ot slep!
    >Back!
    Contacting images2.slashdot.org.........
    Server is not responding.
    >Please God no!
    You have been Taco-spaghettified to death.

    --
  • You had the Gorbachev 64? :)

    FWIW, I had a Vic 20 to play the Scott Adams adventure games, then a PCjr where I finally got into Infocoms

    Hell, I went out and bought Trinity and Buerocracy back in 1989 for my first year of University (still using the 5 year old PCjr at that point), and I STILL haven't solved them! I swear, a year of post-modernist critique damaged my faculties beyond repair. :)


  • She showed me the suit of commands like mfeel, gsex, msex

    What do the mfeel, gsex, and msex commands actually do?
  • Scott Adams has been busy creating Dilbert [dilbert.com] and selling out [dilberito.com].

    Oh, the OTHER Scott Adams. He has released a new game last year called Return To Pirates Island 2 [msadams.com]. You can also
    play online version of his classic games [javaarcade.com].
  • by chill ( 34294 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:14AM (#67480) Journal
    Back in the day when a decent story actually mattered. Now, you don't need an imagination -- that NVidia GForce and Soundblaster provide one for you.

    Of course, you didn't have to pay artists and musicians, either.

    Yes, some of today's games have good stories, but too many rely on whiz-bang graphics and sound and skimp on actual playability.
    --
    Charles E. Hill
  • by ebbv ( 34786 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @08:08AM (#67481) Homepage

    Tetris has no plot.

    DooM/Quake et al never needed one, it was good that Epic realized this with Unreal Tournament.

    you can't unilaterally say games suck because they don't have plots. if a game depends on its plot for part of its interest and enjoyment, and the plot is weak then yes, that is a fault.

    but if it's merely extraneous,.. then that's like complaining that zork never had fancy graphics.
    ...dave
  • by Stavr0 ( 35032 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:25AM (#67482) Homepage Journal
    At the risk of being redundant, here's where to play online INFOCOM games...
    http://infocom.elsewhere.org/ [elsewhere.org] Telnet mode
    http://www.saturn.powerup.com.au/ddesoto/infocom.h tm [powerup.com.au] Java
    ---
  • Wow, I wasted most of my life playing Zork, Nethack, et. al.

    The best way to burn your brain, and it runs great on a C64...
  • I have fruitlessly searched for said interpreter. URL?
  • by Flounder ( 42112 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:25AM (#67485)
    when you can remember how to get the Babel Fish, step by step. And it's been almost 10 years since I played it.

    Between HHGTTG, Planetfall, Zork I and II, Leather Goddesses of Phobos and Deadline, I lost many hours of my childhood. And I'll never regret it as long as I live.

    Now, if only I can find that Infocom Masterpieces CD for less than the $80.00 it goes for on eBay.

  • I remember a text adventure that was on my eighth grade's computer. Dunno if it even had a title, but you were on a jungle island and needed to recover about ten treasures and light a signal fire to leave the island. All I remember now is that here was a jaguar that could only be killed with a spear (axes don't count as weapons, I guess) and a parrot that gave a button-pushing puzzle clue. The best part was that after I had everything figured out, I'd race myself to see how fast I could do it :) I think I finally got the entire thing down to eight minutes...I didn't even look at the monitor to see where I was or what had happened, I just opened my blazing fury of hunt-and-peck on the keyboard and prayed for no typos. Has anyone out there memorized Zork end-to-end?
    ------------------------
  • Everquest, which I am completely addicted to

    I guess that's where all his coding time has gone then. This game is one of the biggest time wasters around, but for some reason it's a lot of fun.
  • 'Go Forward'

    You are in a twisty maze of little passages, all alike...

  • It [newsguy.com] is here. Also check out this place [xyzzynews.com] for more cool z-machine and other interactive adventure stuff.
  • When computers were more expensive, only the more well-off (and usually more educated) could afford them, which is why adventures, especially the cerebral Infocom kind, were more popular

    No. I disagree. Most of the rich people that I know are dumb as rocks, so I discount the connection between cerebral and affluent. I think that Al Lowe (creator of Leisure Suit Larry games) said it best:

    You know, there's another thing about games of the 80s... I think adventure games were the right kind of game for the kind of person who was playing, particularly the PC people. I really believe that if you could run DOS and figure out all the stupid, crazy stuff like extended memory and how to put drivers in high memory and memory management that you had to do if you were going to be successful with a PC back in the 80s, then you just had to be a puzzle solver.


    And remember command lines, where you type in commands? Adventure games really played right into the strong suit of those engineer types who were
    good at that. I remember vividly back in the late 80s, Ken [Williams] and I had a conversation; "Won't it be great when everybody has a computer and can play our games?" We figured that when computers were in 50% of homes, that was probably as far as it was gonna go. The other half probably didn't need one or care. Although now it looks like we were underestimating. But what we didn't take into consideration was that when 50% of people have computers, they're gonna want to watch FOX! They're not gonna be interested in PBS and thinking games, you know?


    This quote was taken from his interview at at Applelinks
    http://games.applelinks.com/moofie2001/al3.shtml [applelinks.com]. It's another good read with a giant from the golden age of adventure games.
    --
  • Nethack is winnable - it's not even that hard. I see it as an exercise in self-control. You have to concentrate on every single move or you will do something stupid, and not all the +3 blessed gray dragon scale mails in Yendor will save you. You could just think of it as good training for life in general. Never stop thinking, because the moment you start hitting keys before you know what they're going to do things go downhill.
  • Whatever tool you don't have with you is the one he asks for. Just put them all in the thing your Aunt gave you.
  • No cynic here. I cried like a baby in my office at lunch when Floyd sacrificed his life for me. No graphical game has ever conjured that much emotion from me. Graphic games are quick, easy, and require no investment, therefore they return much less.

  • 1) I'm not a programmer, I'm a Mac user. So admonitions to 'get over myself' are wasted, since I'm not one of you. I'm making an observation about the Infocom team, about which I'll elaborate.

    2) I was referring to the creators of Infocom games, who were both programmers in the grandest sense as well as artists of serious calibre. "Interactive" fiction is made up of TWO pieces, the "interactive" part (programming) and fiction (an artform).

    If you don't think that Infocom games merit consideration as art, then you're an absolute idiot and I'd be surprised if you could program your own VCR.
  • by smirkleton ( 69652 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @08:33AM (#67495)
    First I disagree with an earlier comment.

    Today's 'graphical extensions' of Zork might be a game like "Myst", or some of the other visual adventure games with puzzles-to-solve in the process. There are some parallels even in games like "Resident Evil" and other largely linear, puzzle-based games.

    But in honesty, the beauty and genius of Infocom's games won't be replicated in a graphical gaming environment. As soon as the computer screen was doing the rendering that previously was up to the NVidia card in your head, your head didn't have to trouble itself.

    Infocom games demanded that players use both their imaginations (to visualize the written word) and their problem-solving skills (to solve the myriad of problems encountered in the course of gaming).

    I think that, while enormous imagination goes into *creating* today's best games, I think most require a lot less imagination on the part of the player. Games are becoming more cinematic. This isn't an entirely bad thing, but it is sad that the current generation of gamers are going to miss out on the truly rewarding experience of text-based adventure gaming.

    And I still remember which so vivid clarity the profound emotion that Infocom games were able to cultivate during gameplay... I remember my abject terror when being captured by Krill's minions in "Enchanter" - madly scrambling to find a way out of the cell, only to be sacrificed on the altar by Krill himself, a glowing blade plunged into my heart. - I remember how hard I laughed when Floyd, the genius robot with the maturity of a 6-year old from "Planetfall" first starting took out a crayon and wrote his name on the elevator wall, and how I wept (WEPT you heartless cynical punkasses, copious tears!) when he sacrificed his life to help me solve the game.

    Text-based systems required more of the participants, but gave back so much more to those who invested the time...Which reminds me...

    When is Slashdot going to get-with-the-times, dump all this text-based news commentary crap, and GIVE US NEWS WE CAN JUST SIT BACK AND WATCH!
  • The whole point of the Infocom parser was that it WASN'T limited to stupid two word combinations.

    > get all of the goo and the candle. blow out the candle then attack the interviewer
    Red goo: taken.
    Blue goo: taken.
    Silvery mystery goo: taken.
    Brown goo: you cannot carry any more.
    Candle: you cannot carry any more.
    You blow out the candle, leaving everyone in a pitch blackness. The stench of a grue becomes apparent.
    You can't see the interviewer. You have been attacked by a grue.

  • by Speare ( 84249 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @08:12AM (#67497) Homepage Journal

    What if you got a good narrator to record all the text from a game, and hooked up a speech-to-text engine for input. Then you could put it on a laptop, sit back in your favorite chair, put on some headphones, close your eyes and just imagine...

    This is just the sort of thing that we need to install in cars to keep the driver awake!

    > drive south
    You are feeling drowsy. You are likely to crash into a grue.

  • Ok, so it really doesn't have a plot.
    And it's graphics suck.

    But DAMN that's a fun game. A bunch of semiold players (semiclue++) telling all new players to go to hell and evict them from the game if at all possible. And a bunch of old players who don't really care.

    My gf has to pull me out of the appartement by the ear to get me away from that game. Too bad the playerbase is getting smaller by the day.

    "Rc++ @ Ald!!!!"
  • by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:43AM (#67499)
    The interviewer could only speak to Dave in two word phrases, a verb and a noun.

    Interviewer: ask question
    Dave: I don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps if you rephrase your statement?
    Interviewer: talk Dave
    Dave: You can't do that here!
    Interviewer: query Dave
    Dave: I don't understand the command "query".
    Interviewer:bah!
    Dave: I don't understand the command "bah".
    Interviewer: kill Dave
    Dave: A strong wind has blown out Interviewer's candle. Interviewer has been attacked by a grue for 106 points Interviewer has died!

  • unfortunately I can't remember the URL, but I do remember the page was a sort of pepperminty green. Oh! I'll just run off and do a web search for "pepperminty green".
  • Judging from the players on the MUD I code on, I would have to say yes. We have lots of players in their teens. Sure, a substantial part of the players are older but most of the new players are below 20 years of age.
  • ...I have all of the Infocom adventure games on a device the size of a stamp - an SD card for my Palm.
    --
  • Though I have nothing against it as a game, and indeed admire it, I find myself occasionally referring to Diablo as "rogue/nethack for people with short attention spans."

    Yeah, I play NetHack in text mode.

    -j
  • You have a point. Solutions: either get real patient, and as another poster pointed out, think out every move, or start doing the savefile copying thing. (I went through a savefile copy phase, and accumulated 20megs of archived savegames, before it turned sour. I don't know why, but it just felt weird. I was cheating, after all.)

    I do the patience thing these days. I don't do much 'puter gaming at all, so my nethack sessions are far between but intense. I die a lot. But I manage to learn a lot, too.

    The game, as a whole, works for some people. For others, it doesn't. *shrug*

    -j
  • by Aquitaine ( 102097 ) <sam@iamsa m . o rg> on Monday July 23, 2001 @08:46AM (#67505) Homepage
    I particularly enjoyed Dave's comments on the commercial viability of the adventure genre. As an interactive fiction designer of the MUSH/MOO flavor, my own experience tends to support everything Dave said about the gaming market today.

    I think a good deal of the 'problem' (if it is actually a problem) is that the audience is different. Back when the original Zorks came out -- I learned to read off of Zork I -- they were novelties. There was nothing like them. I suspect (but have no actual data) that people of all ages bought them, because home computers were new enough so that there was no generation gap yet. They really were immersive. It was and still is the best example of an on-line book where you influence the ending (remember when on-line meant 'on your computer,' in the early 80s?)

    I've done a lot of work in the MUSH world with RPG systems and entirely free-form roleplaying. A quick jaunt around MUSH/MOO/MUD sites will tell you which games are popular, though. My impression is that MUDs with nothing but hack'n'slash have completely caved to things like Everquest, but MUDs were outside my expertise. The actual 'roleplaying' games, where there are no levels, no fighting, only storytelling, are numerous, but most of them are not successful. Their audience tends to be in the 14-20 age range, which makes these 'adventure' games an excellent tool for kids to learn how to write, but rarely can you find really good storytelling. The 'popular' games are based on franchises like Star Trek, Star Wars, or Anne McCaffrey's novels, and except in the case of the latter, typically have shiny buttons and 'game-like' systems that more resemble computer games than storytelling forums. These games try to be all things to all people, and inevitable fail, because a text environment simply cannot compete with Everquest or UO; their success depends entirely on the proper selection of a goal, of a forum that Everquest can't provide very well (like, for example, storytelling).

    There have already been threads on how graphics have dominated the game market. So has the requirement for an online component. With the single exception of The Longest Journey, there have no 'adventure' games that aren't mostly dependent on graphics or gameplay rather than story. Myst, IMO, has been recycled and redone too many times to qualify on the same level as The Longest Journey does. And TLJ didn't sell very well in the US, unfortunately. I think the reason why games like UO and Everquest can't accomodate storytelling on a very real level -- and the reason that really good adventure games like TLJ and Zork can't ever be multiplayer and won't sell well is because a story is a very intimate process. It accomodates, at most, a small group. With a book, you're engaged by the characters in the story; in a MUSH or a Zork, you /are/ the character in the story. But the success of the story is dependent on your involvement in it, or your engagement by it, and Verant would never hire the enormous staff that would be necessary to weave the kinds of characters and plots together to make -every- PC involved in a good story; with that many people, even if you had the writers, you couldn't keep consistency across a universe that large. So they're reduced to 'dungeon hacks,' short-term plots with tangible rewards. To say nothing of the fact that you have know how to participate in a story without ruining it for everyone else. In MMORPGs, all of the structure that exists to do so exists in terms of 'your ability to kick the sh*t out of other players.' It'd be laughable to even try and turn something like Everquest into a viable dramatic setting, where people actually need REASONS for slaying one another.

    end tirade.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • For the record, you'll be missing the Shogun game. The couldn't include Shogun and Hitchhiker's because they were based off of novels and strange property rights kicked in.

    Not that missing Shogun is a bad thing, from what I hear...

  • Depending on the side of the pond you lived on, life consisted of Magnetic Scrolls and Level 9. Personally, I favoured the mag scrolls games over the infocom stuff. Fish, Guild Of Thieves, Pawn etc were fantastic. Infocom were good too, but I found some kind of charm in the magnetic scrolls stuff I didnt really find in the Infocom stuff (specifcally the later games, the early stuff I enjoyed muchly!)... Level 9 were also kickass.. Ingrid, Worm in Paradise, etc.

    Write your Own Operating System [FAQ]!
  • I didnt think much of the melbourne house stuff (and I lived in melbourne for the past 25 years of my 26 year life). hobbit was good for the time, as was KQ1. each had their own strengths. i dont think the melbourne house parse was up to scratch in comparison to level9/MS/Infocom standard.

    Write your Own Operating System [FAQ]!
  • ...
    take robe
    open pocket
    take anagesic

    Speaking of which, I have a headache...


    Save a life. Eat more cheese
  • Now, if only I can find that Infocom Masterpieces CD for less than the $80.00 it goes for on eBay.

    I picked up a copy in Nov. 98 from www.cdromsonline.com, but it looks like they've been eaten by a grue.

    You're best bet may be to check the abandonware sites; HHGTTG wasn't included in the Masterpieces CD (odd), so abandonware may be the only way to get it.
  • by bluecalix ( 128634 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:17AM (#67512) Homepage Journal
    i tried to go follow the link but my dented lantern had sputtered out and i was afraid i might walk into the slavering fangs of a wandering grue. Strangely enough, my sword started glowing...
  • Fourteen. Played Zork, Adventure, Wumpus, etc. Loved them all (damn wumpus!).

  • If anyone is interesting in trying their hand at their own text adventure, you should go here:

    http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archive.html [ifarchive.org]

    There's a plethora of independantly authored games, specifications for the Z-Machine, and a few programming languages and compilers (Inform and TADS being the most popular) for writing "interactive fiction" in a faily high level, object oriented manner. Plus, the Z-Machine has been expanded to have some pretty huge memory allowances, such that games the size of the entire Zork and Enchanter series combined can be written and played.

  • See subject. ps. This is not off-topic--its an "inside" joke that you will understand if you have played Zork.
  • Tell me about it; I've played nethack for well over a DECADE and I've never even come close to winning. Get into the 20s and suddenly a giant mumak comes up and tramples you to death. Before they introduced them the cockatrice would kill you. Tempted to just give up and start copying save files...
    --
  • If I remember right you HAVE to kill the thief.
    --
  • Concentrating on every single move sucks the fun out of the game. Life isn't only about planning; intuition and quick thinking have a part too, and if you slowly plan out everything you do, it'll suck the fun out of life too.
    --
  • What about Curses? The modern IF world wouldn't exist without that one.

    There are some truly amazing games out there. I'm in the process of trying to write one myself (just started; don't ask if you can be a beta tester).

    /Brian
  • Ah. The forerunner to Leisure Suit Larry... But if you want a much better dirty IF game play I-0. Adam Cadre is a weird dude but he writes some pretty good stuff -- just enough kink.

    /Brian
  • The maze of twisty little passages, all alike, is at

    http://bang.dhs.org/if/

    This is the easiest way to get around the Interactive Fiction FTP archive.

    And if you want to write your own, use Inform or TADS... though Inform is the package that they used for Zork: The Undiscovered Underground (the last Infocom game, part of Zork: Grand Inquisitor, I believe). Inform actually compiles to Z-machine code.

    /Brian
  • Perhaps your confusing Slashdot with another site [kuro5hin.org]? This is News for Nerds here. Yeah, I know, Kyoto will affect everyone, and I'm so shallow and politically naive for thinking it doesn't necessarily need to be discussed here, whatever. The fact is, I can check out any [cnn.com] number [go.com] of sites [foxnews.com] to get my Kyoto news. I come to Slashdot to read interviews about 20 year old games.

    Incidently, Slashdot wasn't doing the interviewing here, rather they just linked to another site which conducted the interview.
  • Thanks for the link. But sadly, there's still no access anywhere to the original PDP-10 Zork [csd.uwo.ca], the student project that started it all. Most people know this game only through the imperfect PDP-11 port (Dungeon) and the fragmented Infocom version (actually three new 64K dungeons, with most of the puzzles copied from the PDP-10 version). One can only hope that someday the PDP-10 revival [slashdot.org] will give us online access to all that MUDDLE software.

    __

  • by flip-flop ( 178593 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:26AM (#67534)
    I agree with you, chill - although it's not all that bad, is it? Companies like Looking Glass have been holding aloft the standard of strong, immersive stories. Hang on, they just went broke didn't they...
    OK, maybe it is that bad then.

    Any of you remember what Roberta Williams once said, how in the olden days, when computers were more expensive, only the more well-off (and usually more educated) could afford them, which is why adventures, especially the cerebral Infocom kind, were more popular? Nowadays when just about everyone can buy a cheapo PC or worse still, a console ;) we have more "mass-market" games.
    I don't know if I fully agree with that, but it's certainly an interesting conjecture.
  • by Sebastopol ( 189276 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:31AM (#67537) Homepage

    Whenver I read discussions about the original implementors, there's lots and lots of reminiscing by people in my age group (er, 28-33).

    But I'm curious, have any of you younger fellers played and Zorks, Enchanters, Deadline, Suspect, Starcross, Suspended, Plantefall, etc...??

    I'm wondering if young gamers of today (13-18) even have the patience to play all-text games, or if the memories of Zork are unique only to a certain age group...


    ---
  • by Chundra ( 189402 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:25AM (#67538)
    I particularly like the story on unreal tournament. It adds so much more to the game, and actually enhances the playability.

    Look at those gibs fly!

  • I was maybe 8-10 years old when Zork I was out. I remember a choose-your-own-adventure type book that came out for it, which I read and enjoyed thoroughly. I found the Zork logo (with the opening door as the letter 'O') rather inviting...

    We didn't have a computer at home at that time (unless you count the Atari 2600, which I don't, though it was a lot of fun) but a friend of my mom's did. As it happened, they had Zork for their machine, which must've been an old 8086 or possibly a '286.

    I couldn't get through the game to save my life. Of course, I didn't have any of the game's documentation (if there was any) but I found the game to be majorly frustrating, as the game barfed at roughly 90% of the commands I tried to give it. I could only manage to get through a very small portion of the game, and only then due to my memory of the choose-your-own-adventure, not due to any actual ability to solve problems.

    I concluded that the game was a disappointment and eventually (after several days of getting nowhere) gravitated to the Space Invaders ripoff "Wavy Navy" instead. Still, I did really dig the book version...

    ----jjjiii

  • by egjertse ( 197141 ) <slashdot&futt,org> on Monday July 23, 2001 @08:16AM (#67540)
    Despite the impression one might get when reading the interview, text based adventure/rpg games are not IMO completely dead - they still have a following.

    As I am an old MUD addict who still do the occational crusades online, I have noticed that the user-base on these things are not declining at any noticable rate. The average age of the players may be higher than in the "golden days" of text adventures, but they still do have a strong following.

    FYI: I mostly play on Viking MUD [vikingmud.org] - not the largest of the MUDs, but it's the one I've been hanging around. I also use Frotz [geocities.com] - the multiplatform Z-Engine - to play Infocom games on Linux. Not to forget of course, the original text adventure "Adventure" that has always been part of the Slackware [slackware.com] Linux distribution, and the unforgettable Foom [inetw.net] - a text adventure based on ID Softwares Doom game, using TADS [tela.bc.ca] - the Text Adventure Development System.

  • Now, if only I can find that Infocom Masterpieces CD for less than the $80.00 it goes for on eBay.

    Agreed, I have a floppy collection but would much rather have CD. Hmm.. if enough of us asked nicely, would They "reprint" it?

    (And I still have fond thoughts of HHGTTG every time I pull a wad of fluff out of my pockets...)

  • Try the InvisiClues (probably the Heart Of Gold section) which are conveniently available at the bottom of:
    http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pete/Infocom/hitchhikers.ht ml [csd.uwo.ca]
  • Yeah, Rogue is considered hard - you are kind of at the mercy of the Random Number Generator.

    Ularn [ularn.org] is quite winnable though (I have won it and I am a lousy and impatient roguelike player who never wins things.. ironic?), and is even being actively maintained again. As for all these newfangled games like Nethack and Angband, haven't played 'em yet, so can't comment.

  • Any of you remember what Roberta Williams once said, how in the olden days, when computers were more expensive, only the more well-off (and usually more educated) could afford them, which is why adventures, especially the cerebral Infocom kind, were more popular? Nowadays when just about everyone can buy a cheapo PC or worse still, a console ;) we have more "mass-market" games.

    Roberta Williams of Sierra Online, right? The company that had it's first big hit with SoftPorn, and brought us seven or so episodes of Leisure Suit Larry? Yeah, catering to the smarter computer user...

    The bottom line is text-based adventures came first because the graphics were limited. The thing that sets one text-based game over another is how clever it is, how challenging it is. Half-Life, the Infocom game, would have been interesting as well, but nothing like Half-Life, the Valve game.

    BTW, Looking Glass may be dead, but it seems Deus Ex II and Thief III are being made, by the same people but in a different company (Ion Storm). Plus, Half-Life (my favorite example) taught that a little story-telling in your 1st person shooter goes a long way - I think we'll see a minority of action games with plots and thought required, and that these will win the end-of-the-year awards. Yes, a minority, but two or three a year is enough for me (and all the time and money I can afford).

  • Yup, the very same Roberta Williams. A little known fact: she is actually one of the women in the hot tub on the front cover of Softporn Adventure... wish I had a link to the picture now. I think I have it somewhere on my drive...

    There's a .jpeg of the box cover for Softporn [hispeed.com] at this website [hispeed.com].

    Al Lowe confirms that Roberta Williams is one of the women in the hot tub, in Chapter 2 [sierrastudios.com] of the The Official Book of Leisure Suit Larry.

  • Leatehr Goddesses of Phobos, H2G2, Planetfall.

    Ah. I've often wanted to build my own www-based text adventure. But can you imagine a page refresh for every mistyped command?


    Take the wrench
    [page refresh]
    "What do you mean?"
    Open the toolbox
    [page refresh]
    "What toolbox?"
    Look up
    [page refresh]
    "You see a shiny new toolbox sitting on the top shelf"
    Take the toolbox
    [page refresh]
    "You now have the toolbox"
    Open the toolbox
    [page refresh]
    "You see a shiny new wrench inside the toolbox."
    Take the wrench
    [page refresh]
    "You now have the toolbox. I hope you're happy."
    Quit

  • From the linked article:

    Stephen Granade [S.G.]: If you had the chance to redo any of your Infocom games, which one would you change? What would you do differently, or would you avoid the game entirely?

    D.L.: I'd redo the infamous Baseball Diamond puzzle in Zork II, which has been an object of universal hatred ever since its implementation.

    I actually had to disassemble the Z-machine code to the game to figure out that puzzle. I had no clue that it was even a baseball reference until I read the object code.

  • Loved the original (one of the variants, actually) I played on a PDP-11 back in '79. Our version, which was brought back on a tape from a Los Angeles DECUS didn't include the puzzle room with the blocks. A couple years later someone published a great map in a DECUser magazine and I believe I still have that somewhere.

    Zork I-III were a major disappointment. I picked up Zork (note: Not 'I') for the Apple ][ when it first hit the shelves and scampered (not ran, not shambled, not left a cycops shaped hole in the door, etc.) down to our college Apple Lab and booted up the game. I finished in about 15 minutes and was stunned how watered down it was and at how much was missing. I didn't bother to get the rest until picking up a collection of Infocom text adventures at a shop (probably for less than the Apple Zork disk cost me, not even accounting for inflation) and finished Zork II and was equally unimpressed. Haven't bothered with Zork III, but figure it's probably most of the other parts of the original VAX/PDP11 version with a couple new twists.

    Did enjoy his Lurking Horror game. Living in Michigan and being somewhat snowbound for a while I really got into it. Pity some of the puzzles were so non-obvious I had to buy the clue book. Even with the clue book some puzzles still seemed completely bizzare. I blame that on Activision, tho, since I believe this was after their acquisition of Infocom and an attempt to extract more bucks out of game players (a trend that seems to continue even today in action games.)

    Last Infocom game I got was DNA's Beauracracy. Too damn fun. I should pull that one out and play through it again.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • Should we start a petition?

    I'm waiting for a reliable and easy-to-install modchip for my PS2 so I can finally start importing all the dating/school-sim goodness!

    GTRacer
    - My high school experience SUCKED. At least on console, I can reload if things don't go my way...

  • I read an interview with Douglas Adams, shortly before the release of Starship Titanic, where he proposed a game like that. It would have absolutely no graphics and all output would be done with 3d audio. Input would have been handled by microphone.

    It would have been a neat experiment in usability and accessibility but I don't think it ever got out of the proposal stage - especially after the delay and subsequent commercial flop of Starship Titanic.
  • by Tin Weasil ( 246885 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:20AM (#67563) Homepage Journal
    >Open browser.
    The browser is now open.
    >Point browser at slashdot.
    I can't see any slashdot here!
    >Type slashdot.org in browser.
    You quickly type the information into the browser and press enter, the browser slowly... very slowly loads the web page.
    >Examine browser.
    The browser is currently displaying the slashdot.org home page. There is an interview here.
    >Skip interview.
    You don't read the interview.
    >Get first post.
    The first post is already taken.

  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:57AM (#67564)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • ...they've just gone underground.

    Here are a few modern, independently-written Interactive Fiction games that match or beat anything Infocom has produced:

    Photopia [adamcadre.ac] (scroll down)
    Metamorphoses [mindspring.com]
    For a Change [dfan.org]
    Babel [wurb.com]
    Worlds Apart [igs.net]

    For lots more, head over to The Best of IF [igs.net].

  • And Hitchhiker's is also hanging off the Douglas Adams web site here [douglasadams.com].

    These old Infocom games may be the best reply to all the whiners asking "What good are Java Applets, anyway?"

  • I think most anyone that grew up in the early days of computer games feels this way. The early days of computing meant programming with tight memory constraints, little (compared to today) CPU power, and primitive text and graphics output. Thus, to make a good game, you had had to be creative (and a good programmer, much of the time), and the results showed.

    A good computer game is like a good novel, it creates the image of a world and forces your mind to fill in the details with your own imagination.

    The better text adventure games (and to a lesser extent, some of the earlier graphical RPG's, like Ultima III to VI) did an excellent job of this. Modern games tend to do a very poor job, they just do it with stereo sound and texture maps.

    Then again, we shouldn't be surprised. A trip to the movie theatre will show you that for the most part special effects long ago replaced imagination.

  • Yeah, I know, Kyoto will affect everyone, and I'm so shallow and politically naive for thinking it doesn't necessarily need to be discussed here, whatever.

    Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that slashdot, or it's readers, or even you are shallow and politically naive. I think there is lots of evidence supporting that this is not the case.

    I just sometimes don't understand the decision making process of the editors here at all; There's old news (Alan Cox resigning from Usenet), editor's own petpeeves (CmdrTaco's anime article), rather blatantly poorly written articles (JonKatz's 'movie review') etc. I do like slashdot, I come here every day and I like the discussions a lot, but sometimes you really have to wonder what drugs the editors are on :) Maybe that's part of the charm of the site, that we also get to nag at the editors a lot... SO NAG!! :)

    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
  • NDPTAL85, Slashdot is definitely NOT a hobbyist site. I make money, like all the editors here. I like my work, like most of the editors here. But despite liking my job, and getting paid for it on the side, because it IS a paid job, I try to do it as good as I can. I am a professional. I became a professional when I started getting paid for what I do since my employers think I'm pretty good at what I do. Slashdot editors are professionals too. I suspect most of them LIKE what they do here. I never argued that. But since they are professionals they SHOULD do the best they can instead of pushing their own websites, posting double news (at least Timothy apologised for that, kudos) or writing movie reviews that indeed could be in a high school newspaper. And Katz knows how to write well. He just did (in my opinion and quite a few of the posters) a halfassed job on the movie review.

    Now, in case you don't realise this, it is US who pay these people their income, mostly through ad revenues. We are their customers. Your opinion that 'THATS FINE' is like Adobe customers saying 'THATS FINE' when Adobe sells them crap.

    Lastly, I said in my previous post that I LIKE slashdot, I APPRECIATE slashdot, BUT my criticism stands. It's my opinion, it's a well explained opinion too.

    Oh wait, one more thing. What you call 'obscure' is all over the world considered to be a MAJOR milestone of very big importance. It even surpasses your beloved American right of Free Speech or the DMCA. If you can't BREATHE, you cannot speak you know. Reconsider your opinion and read the article I pointed out, and also try and find somewhat less American centric news reporting about it, it's worth the read, PARTICULARLY for nerds who want to be around and who want their children to be around for a few more generations.

    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
    • Treaty that no other "developed" nation has ratified yet either.

    200 countries have signed the treaty. But thank God that the "developped" USA that locks underdevelopped foreigners in jail comes to the rescue.

    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
  • I know it's slightly offtopic, but there was a rather frustrated post once on a BeOS [be.com] mailing list from a guy who had to write a graphic driver for BeOS and made an Infocom-style text adventure [weekly.org] out of his rather frustrating experiences with it...

    Here's a small excerpt (Formatting is a bit cruddy):

    You are in a cube. In front of you is a 16" (visible) Sony monitor. In front of that is a Mitsumi keyboard and an unbranded mouse. Just to the right is a 266 MHz PC clone. The system is running a development version of BeOS R4.
    There is a graphics card here.
    There is a floppy disk here.
    There is a note from your boss here.
    There is a Hoberman sphere here.
    > INVENTORY
    You have a well-used satchel. Inside it are

    • A set of screwdrivers
    • A small telescope
    • A 16M laptop RAM module
    • A book on decorative knots
    • A PCMCIA Ethernet card
    • Last year's tax return
    • A 166 MHz Pentium laptop computer
    • A bottle of echinacea capsules
    • Hair sticks
    Your wallet contains $3200.
    > REPLACE KEYBOARD
    You put aside the amazingly cruddy Mitsumi keyboard and substitute your favorite AT&T keyboard.
    > PUT LAPTOP ON DESK
    The laptop is now on the desk.
    > READ NOTE
    "Write a driver for this card. We'd like it in time for R4 release."
    > EXAMINE GRAPHICS CARD
    You are evidently the proud owner of a Yoyodyne Monstra VelocElite-LX 128-3D-AGP graphics card.
    > INSERT CARD IN MACHINE
    The machine emits a curious and worrying noise.
    > TURN OFF MACHINE AND INSERT CARD
    The graphics card is now installed in the machine.
    > TURN ON MACHINE
    BeOS R4(devel) boots. You are looking at a gray scale desktop.
    > EXAMINE FLOPPY DISK
    The handwritten label reads, "Programming docs."
    >INSERT DISK AND PRINT DOCS
    Nothing happens.
    > INSERT DISK, MOUNT DISK, AND PRINT DOCS
    The drive spins for a moment, and the command prompt returns.
    > READ DOCS
    I see no docs here.
    > GO TO PRINTER AND GET DOCS
    The printer is out of paper.
    > PUT PAPER IN PRINTER
    There is no paper here.
    > STEAL PAPER FROM COPIER UPSTAIRS
    After installing the liberated paper in the printer, you print your docs.
  • Its too bad Zork didn't have any of the 'g' and 'm' commands from some of the MUDs I found myself in. I remember in college one of my friends was into mudding, and I never saw the fun in a text based game. I got into it one day, and this other character kept harassing me in the game. She showed me the suit of commands like mfeel, gsex, msex, etc etc. Jeez, sometimes my past embarasses me :)

    I never played Zork too much because I was busy playing Leisure Suit Larry ;) Those games were sure fun, when you had to type in your commands. By the time Larry 6 came around the fun kinda disappeared. I mean, clicking the zipper icon on everything gets kind of lame after a while ;) Though it was fun peeing in the water fountain... :)
  • mfeel will generate some random response like:

    You [insert adjective here] feel/rub/touch/kiss the [insert another adjective] [insert body part] of [insert character name]
    followed by a response from the character. Depending on the character traits, the character will generate some type of sound like a purr, a grunt, a schriek, or they will return the favor, or they will instigate further action ;) , or they will assault you. (if you try to mfeel another guy if you are a guy, etc etc) Also, these commands aren't limited to players. They work with inanimate objects too ;) One of my friends was a wizard in the MUD, and even coded some "special" rooms hidden in the MUD, heh heh :) Wouldn't want to bump into those "monsters" by accident :o
  • by UberOogie ( 464002 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:40AM (#67598)
    I've got to say, that as good as games today are, I never had as rewarding an experience as playing those text-based Infocom games of way back when.

    Even modern adventure/puzzle games, which can be quite good (Last Express, Discworld, etc.), don't really match the level of achievement I felt when playing A Mind Forever Voyaging, for example.

    I mean, one of the single most vivid memories of my youth was sitting in from of my old Commie and finally figuring out the last bit of the Babel Fish puzzle.

    A measly little air frag with a railgun will never, ever equal it.

  • by Smedrick ( 466973 ) on Monday July 23, 2001 @07:38AM (#67600) Homepage
    It's interesting to see what Lebling had to say about the so-called demise of the adventure genre. I suppose he's right in some respects, but the situation is a bit more complex than that. I think what's really dying is the idea of genres themselves. I mean, categories like your tried-and-true sports and puzzles are here to stay...they're pretty defninite in form and function. But all the other genres seem to be mixing into one big pot. You've got RTS games with a hint of sim (or even FPS in some cases). You've got RPGs mixing up with action and strategy aspects. I think I've even seen a role-playing racing sim out there somewhere.

    IMO the adventure genre is still alive, only it has taken on many different forms. And even if there seems to be a decline of "adventure" in today's games, I'm sure it'll come back in fashion tomorrow because the video game industry cycles. Games like Zork are simply to frickin' sweet to just fade away out of existence like that.

    --
  • How do you figure out which tool Marvin the Paranoid Android will want to use to open the hatchway from the Heart of Gold out onto the planet? He asks for a different tool every time. I've been stuck there for months....

To the landlord belongs the doorknobs.

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