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Games Entertainment

Java On Dreamcast Forges On 181

Posted by timothy from the instant-nostalgia dept.
Anonymous Coward writes: "Yup, much to my disbelief, it looks like Planetweb are still determined to try and profit off of the dc with their new DC browser version 3.0. According to the site, 'Users will now be able to access the multimedia features on Web sites using Java and play games written in that language..." I'v given up all hope on the DC, but maby a few of you out there...." Since these are officially EOL (even if not completely out of stores), you might be able to pick up your next web-browsing toy at a yard sale.
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Java On Dreamcast Forges On More

Java On Dreamcast Forges On

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  • Games? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AmigaAvenger ( 210519 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @08:32AM (#2401602) Journal
    What ever happened to the day when people would actually play games on the console gaming machine? Now your console browses the web, runs linux, makes your coffee, and does laundry!

    • When it folds the laundry I'm buying me one!
      • Contrary to timothy's garage sale remark, you can still buy [amazon.com] brand new dreamcasts on Amazon.

        The CNN story says you can buy the browser on Amazon too; I couldn't find it though.
    • You're right. I'm constantly amazed at how people continue to make machines do things that they were never designed to do! I can just imagine the next article on /.:

      "MVS/JCL running on a Nokia Cell Phone!"

      On a side note, this can't be too bad: I've LONG been using Craftsman flathead screwdrivers for pry bars, chisels and wedges... If it'll take the punishment and it'll save you a few bucks, I don't see why not...

    • That's funny coming from an Amiga guy.
      I wished that my pc could play games as
      cool as the Amiga.

    • What ever happened to the day when people would actually play games on the console gaming machine? Now your console browses the web, runs linux, makes your coffee, and does laundry!

      Amiga made two systems which were intended for use as game consoles but which were really just normal amigas in a different case, and with a CD. Sega could easily have made a PC out of the DC, especially with the availability of wince for the system. It's unfortunate that the [DC] system didn't ship with any kind of sizable storage, as it would have made a dandy PC-lite, with wince and some sort of light office suite.

  • I'm not a gamer, but doesn't the DC have a CDROM, and if so, is it possible to put linux on it?

    • Re:Linux on dreamcast? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 08, 2001 @08:40AM (#2401620)
      The Dreamcast has a GD-ROM drive. Newer units have had the BIOS tweaked so as not to accept CD* media for booting, but older units read CD-R with no problem (and with a little luck and a screwdriver, can be adjusted to read CD-RW, as well).

      And there's already a Linux project going on. Google is your friend.
      • There were only 2 units sold in japan that would not read cdr media. All units sold in the USA read cdr media.
      • This is incorrect. I have a dreamcast that is brand new and it reads CDRs just fine. In fact, what the incorrect anonymous poster is referring to is about a year ago they all of a sudden changed something and all the self-booting CDRs needed to be changed to work with the new bios or whatever in the dreamcast. It was long ago resolved so there's no point in mentioning it anymore.

    • Re:Linux on dreamcast? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      For the DC platform, specifically it's Hitachi SuperH4 CPU, you want to forgoe Linux and instead work with NetBSD:

      http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/
      http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/faq.html

      AFAIK, the Linux/DC port doesn't have the driver support like the NetBSD code base, especially the broadband NIC. Want to put cross-platform development on your resume? Buy a DC and hack NetBSD!!!

      Props to Marcus Comstedt and Jason Thorpe for most of the work regarding the DC/NetBSD port. I have learned a ton from being on the mailing list for this port.

      -LOS
      cat-at-panther-recordings-dot-com
  • I've got one for sale if anyone is interested? Just got a Playstation 2 not long ago, and PSX2 kicks the DreamCasts ass so its out of home now.
    • I beg your pardon?

      *ahem* apart from GT3 (which is just GT2 with new graphics) what else have you got thats decent??? Dont count games that are to be released like Metal Gear, but real games out now?? Hard isnt it??

      Virtua Tennis, Shenmue, PSO, Jet Set Radio, Daytona 2000 and of course Samba D'Amigo!

      Just watch and see Sega show everyone how games should be made, especially EA.....

      I got both of the 2 machines and the DC has the best games by far. Sega have always produced the most innovative and fun games out there (well at least on console). They have always been a games who have just happened to build hardware and now it aint so.....

      Even though its been out for a while now, the PS2 is an arse to program and really isnt that powerful. Nothing that the DC couldnt handle *if* they ported the game over.....dont believe me? DOA2, same same same.

      Problem with the PS2 is that it has suffered from what helped contribute to the death of the DC, timing. The releases of Gamecube and X-Box will have raised the stakes again and have leapfrogged PS2 in terms of performance.

      Plus for developers the new machines are far easier to develop on, I have heard from developer friends that Nintendo development kit is sweet and well, DirectX for the X-Box no?

      The PS1 sold shit loads due to superb advertising, good timing and a degree of luck. This time round it wont have it all its own way....though to be honest I am so looking forward to further Shenmue episodes on the PS2 :)

      Po

  • PS2 vs DC (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wildoz ( 516652 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @08:42AM (#2401628)
    I have both systems sitting in my house and the DC seems to be a MUCH better system. Yea the PS2 has prettier graphics but the games for it suck. I'm sorry to see the DC die like this considering it has Broadband connection for web browsing and internet games. Where is that net connection for PS2? I'm glad the development continues for this system ... it has/had so much potential!!

    • Re:PS2 vs DC (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Shadow99_1 ( 86250 )
      I'll second that. Though Soul Calibur still looks better than 99% of all PSX2 titles... My DC may no longer be conencted to my TV but it can sure look sweet when I run my AV cables to my computer... On the other hand even with a sony flat panel 16" display the PS2 just gets uglier...
      • One very simple reason why a lot of the DC games look better than those of the PS2 is higher resolution.

        The majority of DC games render a full frame even when runing at 60Hz(NTSC) (50Hz(PAL)). This is then filtered to produce each interlaced field. The result is a better looking image since, in effect, it is a form of antialiasing.

        OTOH it appears that, due to the lack of available video memory, many PS2 60Hz games only use field rendering which effectively halves the resolution.

        Simon
        • The only game I've played on both DC and PS2 is DOA2 (and DOA2:HC for ps2, but it's pretty simmilar). The DC version looks way better, mainly due to the softer edges. Some of the graphics in the PS2 version look really bad. Still, the ps2 version ('hardcore') has more characters, and thats cool. Would adding a little antialiasing have killed them though?
        • Yup. The DC is an SVGA card with a TV-out. The PlayStation2 on the other hand, is designed with the TV as the primary output. Yuck. And the PC version of the PowerVR3 [can does] render to 1600 by 1200 then downsample for another version of anti-aliasing.
    • I don't think any of the PS2 graphics are better than the DC. Look at DOA2 and compare. The PS2 doesn't even hold a candle to it!! Heck, the control-structure is even better on the DC. The problem is that I MUST play GT3, so a PS2 is required... sigh...

    • Sigh. The posting I'm responding to is flamebait pure and simple. Any time you advocate one thing and use the term "suck" or "sucks" in regard to the other, that's the definition of flamebait.

      But then, sadly, it is moderated up as "Insightful." The grand rule of Slashdot forums is "Advocacy of something popular is considered trolling. Advocacy of the #2 underdog is considered a breath of fresh air."

      • Re:PS2 vs DC (Score:1, Flamebait)

        by Rogerborg ( 306625 )
        • use the term "suck" or "sucks" [is] the definition of flamebait.

        Oh great wise one, enlighten your poor disciplies. What term should we use to describe PS2 games? Sub-optimal? Differently excellent?

        Because, by and large, they do suck. Or so I think, and I don't think DC game suck. How do you want me to put that so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities?

        • I agree, using the word suck doesn't constitute flamebait.


          I have to say though, the PS2 is starting to suck less and less. I got one when it first came ut (actually my roomate did) and I have to say I didn't have a lot of fun with the games I had. When my roomate left he took the PS2 with him and I thought big deal. But recently there have been games coming out that I actually want to play.


          Contrast that with the DC I just got (so I could code for it) now that I've played it I'm sorry that I didn't get one sooner, the games I have for it so far are just plain fun. Of course, had I bought one when it first came out I may have had the same experience that I had with the PS2, in fact I remember looking at the available game for DC when it came out and I wasn't interested in the least.

            • I have to say though, the PS2 is starting to suck less and less

            That's maybe a sign the developers are finally getting their head round it. My game developer chums certainly weren't impressed with it when it first appeared, but cognitive dissonance has kicked in and they now view the pain they went through as a purifying process... now their POWAHS are complete... ;-)

            • I think this is the trend with most consoles. The first several months, at least, of games aren't all that outstanding. Some because they were rushed out the door and others because it takes time for a developer to really get proficient at a system. Contrast Resident Evil with Resident Evil 2 on the PS1, huge differences in graphics and gameplay.
              • The thing about the PS2 is that is very difficult to program well enough to extract good performance. Contrast the huge number to PS1 games with whats out there for PS2. Then for another laugh, look at the number of crap titles for PS1.

                The other problem with your argument is that the PS2 hasnt been out for months, it has been out for over 18months!!!! Launched in Feb/May 2000 in Japan. And we are still being promised some of the launch titles (Metal Gear??). Face it, the machine is expensive and hard to program. The quality and quantity of games shows this.....

                Po

      • The grand rule of Slashdot forums is "Advocacy of something popular is considered trolling. Advocacy of the #2 underdog is considered a breath of fresh air."

        Nice try. The only grand rule of Slashdot is that advocating anything non-Open Source is a troll (and god forbid it be a M$ product). That's it, plain and simple.

    • PS2 prettier, hah! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by bcaulf ( 30350 )
      Get a VGA adapter for your Dreamcast and then tell me which console looks better. I use the Treamcast VGA box and I would never want to switch to PS2 on a TV.
      • I have both a PS2 and a DC. I like the games I have for the DC better, but PS2 does have a few things going for it in the gfx department that the DC can't match. Most notably, is the 16x9 or anamorphic mode that many games support. If your TV supports this, you get a very crisp, clear picture.

  • All Hope is not lost (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Solidblu ( 241490 )
    My hope for the Sega Dreamcast isn't lost because no matter what I can atleast make it a cheap little webserver. Although everytime I update it I have to burn a new cd but its a small price to pay for a compact webserver that you can play really nice games on.

  • In a related story... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    NetZero has announced that they will be "The first Internet solution for Atari 7800 users." Utilizing a 110 baud modem which connects to your 7800's joystick port, you will finally be able to live out your dream of surfing the net on your Atari. There will, however, be an advertising banner which takes up the top 3/4 of the screen.
  • Can't.. play... Sonic... MUST BROWSE... Inter...net... aaagghh!!! so, how long before I can check my e-mail with my SNES?
  • About as useful and timely as bringing out a roman numeral modification for the abacus.
  • It still, through numerous incarnations, has not come out with the ability to play streaming MP3's. I rarely, if ever, use my Dreamcast any more. Can't manage to burn a CD with Linux on it that'll actually boot, so I can't play with it for Linux. Got tired of the few games I had for it. I've burned a couple MP3 CDs using some of the free MP3 player software out there, which is handy, but the #1 thing I wish I could do on the DC is boot the damn thing off a CD, and play streaming music, whether off Digitally Imported [digitallyimported.com] or streaming off my own internal server. Then I wouldn't need to waste a Virgin WebPlayer just to play music in my living room.

    Of course most of my collection is OGG now, anyway. How about some clever /. hacker get us a DreamCast streaming OGG player. I'll gladly pay for it.

  • The real web appliance (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BigumD ( 219816 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @08:58AM (#2401685) Homepage
    Here's a real great idea for the "net appliance" that was supposingly going to replace home PC's years back. The thing can run Linux, browse the web, run on an ethernet network, play MP3's, oh and by the way, it's a pretty decent gaming machine.

    Throw that together with the fact that it's about 80 bucks brand new and tell me what you really have to complain about...?
    • Throw that together with the fact that it's about 80 bucks brand new and tell me what you really have to complain about...?

      Doesn't have a hard drive... :-(

      • it's a web appliance! it doesn't need one. use a computer if you want to store stuff.. but for me, for browsing slashdot, checking my webmail, and stuff like that, it's just fine..

        Besides, just NFS mount your drives.

        • it's a web appliance! it doesn't need one.

          By your definition. Maybe that's why web appliances never caught on.


          Besides, just NFS mount your drives.


          Which means you still need a hard drive somewhere, and a connection between them.

          Sure, for just web browsing, you don't need a hard drive. But it would be nice to store MP3s and playlists locally without having to burn a CD every time. Save email locally and edit new emails without having to connect to the 'net.

          But I'd settle for a USB adapter for my Dreamcast.

    • I was at Funcoland in Brooklyn yesterday.

      Dreamcast--
      $79.99 new, with no games
      100 new, with 3 sports games
      59.99 "refurbished" but they were out of refurbished
      54.99 used

    • Re:The real web appliance (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Howie ( 4244 )
      $80 will not get you ethernet, a keyboard, or mouse. Not new anyway. And anyone with any sense will be be selling the BBA (ethernet) seperately on EBay or similar. They are going for $80 to $150 by themselves. If someone figured out a way to make a clone BBA (it's a Realtek 8139-based adapter), then it would be a nice 'media appliance.

      Second best (to PS2) crisp TV-resolution graphics too. Why can't TV-out video cards ever be that good? All I want is a 720x586 full-frame mode...
      • New and used keyboards and mice are plentiful and will only add another $30 to the tag. Despite the rumors, broadband is not a requirement for net access, and the Dreamcast comes with a 56K modem that will work with you ISP.
        • New and used keyboards and mice are plentiful and will only add another $30 to the tag. Despite the rumors, broadband is not a requirement for net access, and the Dreamcast comes with a 56K modem that will work with you ISP.

          Despite the rumors? Try loading slashdot's frontpage from a modem sometime, even THAT is painful, and it's not that big. With more and more sites employing flash and java these days, the modem is going the way it should go - Directly into the waste bin.

      • since you would otherwise be limited to CDs worth of MP3s, the ethernet is a pretty important part of that side of the thing though - to me anyway. I have 100Gb of MP3s on a fileserver, and I don't want to be burning them onto CDRs to play them!

    • The thing can run Linux,

      ...cool, but in no way practical/useful

      browse the web,

      ...better than nothing, but tv resolution sucks for the web (also european browser is v. crappy, us one prob. better)

      run on an ethernet network,

      ...if you're prepared to shell out $150 on ebay for a BBA ($150! For an ethernet card!)

      play MP3's,

      ...if you already have a pc to d/l or rip your mp3s and burn them onto cd

      oh and by the way, it's a pretty decent gaming machine.
      agreed :)

      and tell me what you really have to complain about...?

      Jet Set Radio Future is an xbox exclusive :(

  • I think the best feature is the broadband support, not the Java support. It's kinda cool having a console be able to get on the net, just because you can.

    • Re:Broadband (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Gizzmonic ( 412910 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @09:07AM (#2401714) Homepage Journal

      Unfortunately, broadband never really took off on the DC. The "broadband adapter" (a modified version of a Realtek ethernet card) is supported by a grand total of six games. Not to mention that SEGA only sold them for about three months, and now they go on eBay for $120+.

      Yeah, it's cool to play with Linux on them, but don't you already have 5 computers in various states of disrepair running Linux/BSD? I know I do...

      Despite all this, the DC is/was a great console. Its library of titles whips the PS2 and probably will until at least the middle of next year...and it has a thriving homebrew community [boob.co.uk].

      • Yeah, but I already have the broadband adapter. (Also Quake for Dreamcast.) I bought mine while Sega was selling them, and I wish I would've bought a few more.

        I do have a bunch of computers laying around. But, my Sega isn't in disrepair, I can browse with it. (My amps also go to 11.)

        I guess it's the same reason I bought an Alpha MB on Ebay. Just to have one running, because I can.

        • Heh, me too.. I remembered ordering one earlier this year and wondering if I'd actually ever receive it (I ordered it along with a few other things, as I recall, Sega shipped everything but the Broadband adapter, and I eventually called out of concern, only to have the rep on the other end of the line attempt to restore my faith.. thankfully, it did come).

          It's REALLY too bad Sega turned what was an otherwise awesome toy into a concrete brick by doing that BIOS tweak in later models (including mine, unfortunately) that disabled CD-R usability.. [sigh] I'd have liked to have seen NetBSD or Linux running on this thing. =(

      • Yeah, it's cool to play with Linux on them, but don't you already have 5 computers in various states of disrepair running Linux/BSD? I know I do...

        Yes, (well, 8 actually, at last count :) ) but none of those have anything like as nice a TV-out as my DC, nor are they as small, quick to boot. It's almost the quietest too.

  • Lotsa stuff on Dreamcast (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ashleigh ( 260287 ) <colonelteddy@hotmail.com> on Monday October 08, 2001 @09:01AM (#2401693)
    ok, maybe not Java related, but is about the dreamcast not being so dead as lots of you might think.

    There already is linux running on the DC, with MAME, running Doom even (imagine that! an emulated game on a physical machine!) checkout this site [dcemulation.com] for lots of information and useful stuff.

    Long live the dreamcast!!!
  • I don't know if this would qualify as SEGA trying to profit off the Dreamcast, since the browser has always been provided free of charge to its internet subscribers. They've put out several updates that I know of over the last few years. This is probably not something that's going to be available in stores, just SEGA living up to their contractual obligations.

  • Hard Drive? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Accipiter ( 8228 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @09:12AM (#2401724)
    Users have not been able to download other browsers such as Netscape Communication's Navigator or Microsoft's Internet Explorer because users can only download game files and the size of the Dreamcast hard drive is limited.

    Wow. I must of missed that feature when I bought my Dreamcast.

    I wasn't aware the Dreamcast's HITACHI PROCESSOR wasn't a factor in running Netscape or Internet Explorer. Gee, the AMOUNT OF RAM doesn't seem to be an issue either. Or OPERATING SYSTEM support for that matter! The only issue blocking the use of these other browsers seems to be the lack of a sufficiently-large hard drive!

    Well shit, if that's the case, I'm going to upgrade mine!

    *pops open Dreamcast*

    Err...Where's the old one?
    • Well, there is a VMU, a device you plug into the DC controller to save games. That's not a harddrive, but maybe thats what the author had in mind when he wrote that.
    • Heh, ironically, I believe you could get IE running on a dreamcast. It DOES run WinCE after all (hence the "Compatible with Windows CE" logo on the front of the thing) and there's no real reason why IE shouldn't work, other than a lack of support from MS (surprising? Xbox? Hello?) The RAM is actually sufficient for web browsing, keep in mind on a Dreamcast that resolution is fixed, thus no real need for multiple windows, though, unless you shelled out $50 for an ethernet adapter, you're on a 56k modem.

    • Or OPERATING SYSTEM support for that matter!

      Afaik, Dreamcast's os is Windows CE. So, most likely there's port of atleast IE for it, most likely netscape too.

      But harddrive ... Does it even have a harddrive ? =)

      • Re:Hard Drive? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by jockm ( 233372 )
        The Dreamcast has no internal OS, it is booted off of the [CG]D-ROM. Developers have three choices:

        1) Build their own
        2) Use Sega's low-level OS (named IIRC Dragon)
        3) Use Windows CE
      • Afaik, Dreamcast's os is Windows CE.

        Dreamcast does not have a built-in OS. The OS comes on the CD with the game (or whatever).

        That means the developer has a choice of using Sega's native OS or Windows CE. Sega's OS gives the developer better access to the hardware for (potentially) better graphics and using CE makes it (potentially) easier to port Windows games. At least, that's the theory.

        • I was told that the reason it has CE was to avoid large import tariffs placed on electronic equipment like DVD/CD players, videos and hifi. By saying that it ran CE (not embedded) it could be classed as a computing device and so be excempt.

          This is very important as price points are crucial when it comes to selling consoles :)

          Po

      • Sega DC operating systems (Score:3, Informative)

        by rhinoX ( 7448 )
        There are several possibilities:

        1) Shinobi - the official Sega "OS". It's really
        just a mixed low/high level API. Not an OS.

        2) Dragon - WinCE for DC. This is crap. Few
        people ever used it, though it was the first
        winCE with direct-x.

        3) Linux - it runs all right.

        4) KallistiOS, it's turning back into a library now.

        I've got the DC dev kit, and by FAR the Sega API is the best and easiest to use.
      • Nope no IE - at least not officially released. The Planetweb browser was made in Sega's own OS - it doesn't even use CE.
  • I just spent last night compiling X 3.3.6 for my DC, the only problems i had burning bootable cd's was not being patient and thinking my burner had reset itself and forcing it open with 'eject'


    i plan to setup nfs so i can mount up user space, no more reburning cd after cd, i did manage to make my cd read cd-rw's, email me if you would like to know


    i plan on giving licq and xchat a shot on cross compiling, but this could be nasty... unless licq has a gtk plugin? which i think it does now... i dont want to spend umpteen hours cross compiling qt...


    i will send binaries with all dependencies included to the respective sites if i get any of it to work... so far the cd has worked like a dream for me...


    oh also, i plan on eventualy making a dc-quake-howto... basicaly howto pop in a cd with enough standalone linux to run quake... this has many possibilities for other linux games that you can now pass onto your windows friends who own a dc


    • oh also, i plan on eventualy making a dc-quake-howto... basicaly howto pop in a cd with enough standalone linux to run quake... this has many possibilities for other linux games that you can now pass onto your windows friends who own a dc


      Erm, why not just run the dc version of QuakeIII? Possibly faster than running it via Linux...

  • Life in it yet (Score:4, Informative)

    by HalfFlat ( 121672 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @09:17AM (#2401744)

    Some people have been asking, why Java? What's the point? The Dreamcast is dead!. In answer: lots of people still use their DC, so the more support, the better. More generally though, the DC is still a nice piece of kit.

    As a gaming platform of course, the Dreamcast's days are numbered - it won't be long before the rate of release of new games declines to a trickle. Not that that should stop anyone from enjoying the many fine games already released of course!

    Yet with the very low cost of the DC now, if you can find one, and the very wide distribution of information on the console, it has become a perfect, cheap platform for experimenting with embedded programming, or console game development, or even for trying out non-x86 based Unixes. Remeber that there is a version of BSD and Linux available.

    The so-called 'coders cable' can provide connectivity for development, but for high speed access there is the official broadband adapter (hard to find and pricey). If you're feeling brave there has been some talk about the viability of a USB-Controller port adapter. The Maple Bus (used to connect the controllers) has been well documented [mc.pp.se].

    An earlier slashdot story has already talked about a nice step-by-step for Linux on Dreamcast [linuxdevices.com].

    • You know whats funny about those ethernet controllers is that when they were released I just ordered one on sega.com - came in about a week - I think I pay 50$ for it.

    • Re:Life in it yet (Score:2, Interesting)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

      Ultimately, this platform is going to become useless if someone doesn't come up with a way to get ethernet on it cheaper than the $150 or so that BBAs have been going for. I love my DC, and I was seriously jazzed when they announced the BBA, but then of course the platform died off.

      Mind you, it's a pretty bad game machine in most respects. While many gamers have learned to live with them, very few actually enjoy the controller, which is the second-worst gaming controller ever, IMO. The first is the original Sega Master System controller, which made an artform out of moving in cardinal directions. If you weren't an artist (and I mean this in the gamer sense) then you hadn't a hope in hell of moving properly. Oddly enough, the Sega Saturn's 3D Control Pad was superior to the DC controller in every way but expandability, especially in terms of ergonomics. Sega took a step backwards with the DC's controller, making it unwieldy and removing two buttons.

      The DC will once again be an excellent hobbyist platform if a new source of ethernet access can be provided. With its 200MHz SH4 chip, 32MB of onboard memory, and 2Mbps controller bus, it's actually a fairly worthwhile system. The lack of local storage outside of the CD/GD-ROM is a severe problem if you do not have ethernet, but with it it's no problem at all. And the VGA support really adds to the usefulness of the whole thing.

      Has anyone disassembled a BBA and put it up on the 'net? Can anyone comment on the feasibility of building one's own BBA? I assume there's really not very much to it, and that it's similar in complexity (and design?) to an ISA NIC, though of course the bus and form factor are entirely different. Is any custom logic on it something which could possibly be replicated with an FPGA?

      • With its 200MHz SH4 chip, 32MB of onboard memory, and 2Mbps controller bus

        I believe it is 16MB of onboard memory.
      • Mind you, it's a pretty bad game machine in most respects. While many gamers have learned to live with them, very few actually enjoy the controller, which is the second-worst gaming controller ever, IMO

        I agree with you that the BBA has to be cheaply replaced in order for this thing to live on, I totally disagree with you on the controller. I like it, and everyone I know likes it was well. In fact I've never really seen the controller being bashed anywhere, online, IRL, etc. Based on 2+ years of Dreamcast gaming and Dreamcast-related reading, I think I can say the DC controller-haters are in the minority.

        And they're way better than the PS2 controllers. I have to contort my thumb at a right angle just to use the analog sticks... with the DC, my thumb can rest naturally on the d-pad or the analog stick.

        Also, aside from your critique of the controller and the BBA problems, you then go on to say it's a pretty darn good system over all. And you didn't even mention the DC's reputed ease of programming, quite possibly its biggest strength from a hacker's standpoint.

        So aside from the controller "problem" (most people don't consider it a problem, and you can buy replacements you know) that leaves the BBA as the only real flaw. So I don't get the "pretty bad game machine in most respects". Don't be dissing my beloved Dreamcast.
  • Remember the java applet that emulated the PDP-something-or-other so you could play the original Spacewars? How cool would it be 20 years from now to have a Java that emulates a dreamcast machine? Processors at that point in time should just barely be able to run the thing JDK6.5 with decent framerates.

  • No need for rummage sales (Score:4, Interesting)

    by foo fighter ( 151863 ) on Monday October 08, 2001 @09:30AM (#2401770) Homepage
    My local Software Etc. and Electronics Boutique both have their back rooms piled high with used, working Dreamcasts. I just picked up one of the cool black ones with its controller for $50 + $10 for a six month warranty against it dying.

    It comes with a modem and a browser and you can get a keyboard and mouse for it. Several companies make adapters that allow you to connect it to a monitor. You can still find the broadband (Ethernet) adapter on Ebay for about $120.

    I have the base linux system up and running on it, so now I'm working on getting it to dial up an ISP and start a browser on power-up. My grandma has been putting off getting online for a long time, and now I can get her there for $50 + ISP charges. All she has to do is push the power button and she's on the web and able to email her far flung family. I'm making sure the interface is big and readable on her 35" TV.

    It's pretty easy for me to get linux running on it now, and then connect to my home computer and run terminal services. Why do I do this? Because $150 for a new computer for my wife is much less than $1000 for a new low-end computer, especially when it is just used for basic productivity suite software and web browsing.

    Also, the linux system is just a CD-R, so I just pop it out, and pop in a game and I'm playing Quake, or Crazy Taxi, or Ready to Rumble, or Sega NFL with no patches or incompatabilities with up to three of my friends. (All of these games are readily available used for $15 or new for $45)
    • "$1000 for a new low-end computer"????

      Where do you buy your low-end PCs? The airport gift shop? You can buy a pretty darn powerful computer for $600-750 even at retailers like Best Buy.
  • For the simple sake it is nice to use with the broadband adaptor. Now i can play mp3's on my network through the web browser on the two tv's i have with DC's hooked up.

    Can also bootup in a minute and read news, check cnn.com, view weather.com and news.com in less time it takes for a laptop to resume from power saving.

    The DC is far from dead as long as these games are still playable. for 80 bucks you can't go wrong. From what i've heard expect the DC to be 59.00 by christmas. Worth that price alone for colectors.
  • Some people are asking "why bother with the DC".
    Perhaps a better question is "why bother with Java on a console?"

    Java has turned out to be the biz for server-side web development, and enterprise computing in general.

    Where Java has not had such a great success is in browsers. Historically, there have been problems with incompatibilities between Java implementations on even the big-name browsers (Netscape, IE). This was particularly a problem with the Java front-end APIs. With all this, and M$ studiously ignoring Java, I don't think it will become any more popular on the browser than it already is.

    Java could yet evolve into the platform of choice for desktop applications, but for now it has missed. Who would want to run BEA's Weblogic on a dreamcast?
    • Well, its very true that the mostly java is used in serverside but there's a market for java based games. Im working in finnish isp and we have a really successfull multiplayer gaming site [pasiworld.com] thats written in java and we have a lot of gameplays per each day.

      The thing might be that "we nerds" who know java, might think that it sucks and its dead but ordinary people that wants a quick fun doesnt give a shit if its down with shockwave/flash or java or what ever plugin .. They just want to play or do what ever the applet does for them ...

  • While I have to admit that I still lovingly croon to my DC on occasion as I play games on it, I have never really invested much time in using it as a true thin workstation. I love having my MP3's on a disk with a sweet little self-booting player app., but without throwing $100-$150 to the wind in order to get a BBA, it's not a real solution for me. I have booted linux and NetBSD from my little white thinking cube of game-dom, but I can't access the world beyond the box without that 'rare-as-hens-teeth' 10bT module.
    However, I will say that I view it as a 'Good Thing'{tm} that we're seeing a powerful console unit with a pretty good collection of games coming on the market at a bargain-basement price, which lets people play around with both an embeded system and a fairly powerfull architecture in a hobbyist environment. I do not however believe that anyone will be able to provide a killer-app (besides Soul caliber :) that will make people run out and snatch these up and/or dust them off and use them on a day-to-day basis. Without a cheap ethernet connection the entry-level threshold is too low to make it feisable.
    I do hold out faith that the PS2 will fill this role however. Sony has already produced a Linux Dev-Kit (admittedly for the JPN market only) and with a much broader market penetration and a simple 10/100bT & hard-drive solution on the horizon for the US market, I'm very hopefull that by this time next year, I'll have a little black PS2 boxen in my TV center that gives me access to my other boxen, broadband connection, and an assortment of OSS solutions for myself and my less geek-ish friends to use. Does anyone else feel that this may well be what we discover over the next 12-months?
    hmmn...
    food for thought

  • I have a PS2, a DC, and an N64 (long live GE). A lot of times, especially with rentals, I find myself stuck because of a lack of instruction manual or because it's 3:30am and I can't think straight.

    Before I snagged my DC, I would've had to wait until morning to check GameFAQs. Now, I just switch inputs to the DC (or save the DC game in progress), boot up, search, and then power off and back to the game.

    I'd love the ability to VNC from my living room to work on my website. And it's a lot easier to check those *special* sites in a different room...

    GTRacer
    - "It's for a Soc class, I swear!"

  • There is already a emulator for GBA written in java...http://boycottadvance.emuunlim.com/BA-onlin e.html

    So I'm assuming you'd be able to play Gameboy advance games on Dreamcast now. Cool.

    Now if someone would only make a dreamcast emulator in java...
  • I've read some of the posts here, and my question is: why not?
    Why not have an internet connection for a console if you can? The DC has always been cheap, and it is a good console too. The internet connection just makes it better.

    I am a little sad that Sega didn't produce more broadband adapters. I think there is, still today, a market for them. I for sure would by one if I could, but I don't want to pay USD 200 for it (I have a european DC, so it has to be modified if I want to put in a japaneese or american broadband adapter).

    The main thing to remember is that the internet connection was put there so people could play multiplayer games, not just so they could browse the net. The web browser should be seen as an added bonus!

    I saw some posts regarding linux on the DC. Check out DC-Emulation [dcemulation.com]. You'll be amazed at the amount of emulators, OS'es and other stuff that is available for the DC.

    If you want a console you can write programs for without spending USD 2000 on some devkit, get a DC.

  • X server? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by EllisDees ( 268037 )
    If they get Java up and running on the thing, I wonder how well the WeirdX [freshmeat.net] X server would work on it. Still lackin a keyboard, but should be good enough to browse on...
  • I saw it as "Java on Forgecast Dreams On".

    :)

    --Tom Geller, Executive Director

    SpamCon Foundation [spamcon.org]
  • Even if the platform has been discontinued? How dare they try and improve things for the people who still own the system!

    If only every software maker did this...

  • Dreamcast we worship you. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ImaLamer ( 260199 ) <john.lamar@NospaM.gmail.com> on Monday October 08, 2001 @11:06AM (#2402133) Homepage Journal
    First let me say: I'm very active in the DC scene(s).

    Broadband adapters need to be made again!

    For god sakes SEGA is still making games for the DC, as they only pulled out of the hardware business. It's flat out impossible to play new games online (WSB2K2, Mars Matrix, etc) when you canceled your dial-up account 2 years ago.

    As for another suggestion posted above; yes streaming mp3 support needs to be covered. The DC outputs some of the best sound I've heard on a console. *If* I could get a BBA then I would be able to stream them right of the PC. But, I've also archived all my mp3's to CD so I can already play them in the DVD player, DC and PC. BUT! Playing a shout,er,icecast stream would be great for ambient music.

    The DC can be anything people want it to be. It's your all in one box. It's even got a C64 emulator.

    But what can we do to resurrect this machine to above it's full glory?

    [ps. i noticed on mtv the other day that they gave a few DC's away on a show - so people, of course, still love them.]

  • Broadband for DC without BBA (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 08, 2001 @11:40AM (#2402309)
    Since everybody is complaining about the DC BBA being obscenely expensive secondhand on eBay,
    here's a link to a project where you use the DC internal modem to network to a linux PC through another modem and piggybacking on that broadband.

    Google is your friend.

    http://www.kinox.org/articles/linuxdc.html
  • Any idea of where I can get a DC VGA adapter
    online? I've tried several online videogame
    stores, but nobody carries them anymore.

    Shawn
  • I find that getting the Dreamcast Broadband Adaptor is becoming increasingly difficult. For certain tasks, running linux on here would be great.

    At this point I can only find this device on Ebay for inflated prices.

    I believe that when the Broadband Adaptor becomes impossible to get, the Dreamcast's viability for any NOS will die. What a shame.

    rhadc
  • I have yet to see PS2, Nintendo, or even the mighty M$oft Xbox -- in the year 2001 (or even 2002 for that matter) compete feature to feature with the Dreamcast.....Pretty sad when your only way to get online gaming with a console is to go with a machine that is (un)officially "dead". BTW -- are you PS2 fanboys online yet???

  • Guys, you should know that dreamcasts are still in stores, and many still being sold. They may not be MAKING any more dreamcasts, Sega says.. But you can still buy NEW ones from prices around 50-90 dollars (So I've heard. I have a DC at mty place, so I don't really need to buy a new one) And many MANY stores are selling used dreamcasts for 40-60 dollars. They will still be making games for it, also. Look at Phantasy Star Online V.2. Just a couple things to look at here.
  • There are some great games out for the DC, many look just as good as what's currently out for the PS2. At these prices it's great value for money. Some of my favorites:

    -Soul Calibur
    -Dead Or Alive 2
    -Powerstone
    -Powerstone 2
    -V Rally 2
    -Ferrari 355 Challenge
    -Crazy Taxi 2
    -Soldier of Fortune
    -Unreal Tournament
    -Quake III

    There's also CD images on the net containing hundreds of NES / SNES images along with well working emulators...
  • I hear a lot of people with the same complaint - we all have these wonderful (admittedly a bit dated, but still really slick) console systems that we like to use for gaming sometimes, but we could put to all sorts of cool uses if we had a BBA. Unfortunately they are going for 130-150 dollars on eBay now, which is outrageous, and are pretty much unavailable elsewhere.


    Yes, there are some hacks, like the modem-to-modem hack to connect your DC through your computer, but that doesn't work if you don't have a modem in the same room as your TV (my computer is at least 100-150 feet from my TV and DC).


    But a decent hack to ethernet enable my DC would make me a happy man. Supposedly bITmASTER's site had an ISA bridge for the expansion port, which you could connect an ethernet card to (though it wouldn't be compatible with games, you could at least use it with NetBSD/Linux for DC). If it was actually compatible with the BBA it would be even better. But bITmASTER's site is now missing in action and I can't find schematics or any info anywhere.


    I'd spend 100 bucks on parts because this would be a great hack. Too bad I'm not enough of a hardware hacker/EE guru to do this - I'm just a CS grad who can use a soldering iron and maybe a logic probe. But if anyone out there has any bright ideas, I'm more than glad to help in any way possible.

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