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Games Entertainment

Sega To Take X-Box To Arcades 164

Posted by Hemos from the reusing-the-fab-plants dept.
kikta writes "Well, after our previous speculation about what Sega would do after they got out of the hardware biz, it appears we have our answer. CNN is reporting that they will be producing motherboards to port the Xbox to the arcade. GamePro also weighed in on the announcement."
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Sega To Take X-Box To Arcades More

Sega To Take X-Box To Arcades

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  • Well, after our previous speculation about what Sega would do after they got out of the hardware biz, it appears we have our answer. CNN is reporting that they will be producing motherboards

    Looks to me like that means they're still in the "hardware biz"
    • A better way to descirbe it would ne that Sega has gotten out of the consumer hardware business. They can no longer afford to bleed the money that is releasing an arcade machine motherboard in a comsumer-targeted game system.
    • Good point, I realized after I submitted it that it sounded contradictory. However, I was referring to the previous ./ article where it was stated "Sega is getting out of hardware altogether." Sorry for the confusion.

  • but, uh... (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by turbine216 ( 458014 )
    "...after our previous speculation about what Sega would do after they got out of the hardware biz..."



    Doesn't this annoncement mean that they're not out of the hardware biz at all???



    However do you mince words so well, oh Hemos?

  • Sega never got out of the Arcade business... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Thomas M Hughes ( 463951 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:03AM (#2435620)
    I didn't think this was all that big of a deal. There have long been suggestions of Sega working with Microsoft on the XBox. Didn't we even hear that the XBox might play Dreamcast discs natively at some point? Rumor or not, this isn't really huge news.

    Unless you look at the hardware, of Sega discussing building an arcade version of the XBox. Again, I really don't consider this news. Sega pulled out of the _home_ console market, they were always doing well in the arcade market, and never intended to pull out of that at all.

    So put two and two togeather. Sega makes games for XBox, and Sega makes arcade games. Wouldn't it make sense that Sega would want an Arcade version of XBox in order to make the transition from Arcade to home easiest?
    • ...Sega makes games for XBox, and Sega makes arcade games. Wouldn't it make sense that Sega would want an Arcade version of XBox in order to make the transition from Arcade to home easiest?

      Sorry to be the paranoid one here, but this looks way too much like former video-game market leaders deciding that "being a Microsoft partner", under whichever contract conditions Microsoft put them in, is better business than building home consoles. Monopoly probability: high.

      And it sounds like a bad move to focus on game development instead of hardware production (even though Sega is still on the arcade market). Many (I mean lots) game development companies have gone out of business very quick, while hardware provided more stable market for most of the companies that are in (Atari is the exception that confirms the rule).

    • Tom's right on the money.

      Sony is making their PS2 as an arcade motherboard as well. So what? It makes sense to have a souped up version of the home system as an arcade system. Namoni was basically a Dreamcast with more memory, and daisy-chained motherboards.

  • Glad to see Sega still around. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dave-fu ( 86011 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:07AM (#2435636) Homepage Journal
    They may not have put out a good (read: profitable) game system since the Genesis, but innovative games like Jet Set Radio and the ridiculously addictive Samba de Amigo should show everyone that Sega's still got plenty to offer when it comes to the often-stale world of video games.

  • Who is making these decisions? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by w.p.richardson ( 218394 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:10AM (#2435653) Homepage
    This is a poor decision on Sega's part. First of all, arcades have been dying for years. The arcade of today is stuffed with crappy driving and ski simulators that cost $1.50 per 20 seconds of play. This is the environment Sega thinks that they can be successful in?

    Furthermore, who on earth is going to pay ($1.00 or more?) to play arcade ports of games that are available for a home system? Just go buy an Xbox and the games and you don't have to pay to play. If you want to try the game first, you could always rent it or borrow it from a friend.
    • First of all, arcades have been dying for years.

      I always got the impression that arcades are still very popular in Japan and other parts of Asia. Sega would still need machines for over there.

      -prator
    • Furthermore, who on earth is going to pay ($1.00 or more?) to play arcade ports of games that are available for a home system? Just go buy an Xbox and the games and you don't have to pay to play.

      Of course Sega could do the arcade version FIRST and then port it easily to the home system later. They have done it several times before, now it would just be easier. And of course you get all the extra goodies when playing the arcade version, like steering wheel and in racing-games, lightgun in shooting, etc.

    • Re:Who is making these decisions? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Ahchay ( 91408 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:35AM (#2435737) Homepage
      Ummm. Have you been to an arcade recently?

      After far too many years of formulaic beat 'em up nonsense, there has been quite a resurgence recently in arcade games providing experiences you won't get at home. The best examples of these are games such as Dance Dance Revolution (which although looking like no-one in their right mind would play in public is hugely successful) but head to head racers (daytona is still the no.1 blueprint) and even FPS games (anyone seen SWAT 24/7? Cracking game) are light-years ahead of home consoles - mainly because designers have finally got rid of the up-down-left-right-fire mentality so beloved of the JAMMA era

      Arcade designers are, it seems, finally realising that they can't really compete with home consoles on the graphics and sound front and are pretty much returning to root design principles. Make the _game_ different in the arcade; provide controls customised for the game; put players head-to-head; in short give the player something extra!

      Or are you intending to buy different controllers for each game you get for the x-box? Your living room is going to be pretty cluttered...

      Personally, I think this is great news. The easier arcade games are to produce the better.
      • I have to say that the life of the Arcade is precariously balanced right now. They are doing the right thing by changing the style of the games to make them different than the home console games. What is cutting off their oxygen supply however, is the ease with which to play with your buddies at home and networked play. This however, could be slowly changing...

        I remember through the early Quake years a rash of upstart 'gaming' houses, where some guys put a bunch of crappy computers in their basement and charged others by the hour to play Quake and Duke Nukem at the time. But they pretty much died off as people got better computers at home with good modems etc. However Arcades might have the necessary financial backing to make this work again.

        One place that seems pretty successful is the Metreon(sp?) out in San Francisco. It's a large mall like structure with movies, stores and large arcade. The games there are different variations on computer games, one is *sort* of like Tribes (I use that comparison lightly). What is nice is that all of the consoles for that game are networked together to form a big game world...nearby consoles might be on the same team, which fight against people on the group of consoles across the room (there's maybe 40 total consoles of this particular game). Now take that concept a step further - have several of these games at arcades across the city, nation or world(what with broadband speeds becoming fairly prevelant in big cities). Now you could have your group of friends play at one arcade against others in another city.

        It's kind of the next evolution of the big LAN party tournaments. More people could join in certain competitions because it would be easier for them *not* to have to drag around their computer (I know, I know, most of the fun of LAN partys is the file trading and being at someones house till the wee hours...I don't see those private gatherings going away). The Arcade may not be open all night, but it could be open almost every night...much easier to have a consistantly open gathering place to game. Anyway, some things to think about.

        -A non-productive mind is with absolutely zero balance.
        - AC

      • Why this will fail. (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Brijam ( 242526 )
        The real reason Sega is doing this is that they are strapped for cash, and see a way to slash arcade machine costs. Its a desperation move. It has nothing to do with innovation.

        We won't see any PC games in the arcade for the simple reason that it won't work. Incidentally, this is also why Xbox will fail as a console-- porting games works one way:
        Arcade --> Console --> PC.

        It DOES NOT and NEVER WILL work the other way:
        PC --> Console --> Arcade. PC games are just too complex for a console, and require too much time to play for arcade operators to make any money.

        The golden rule of an arcade game is reasonable excitement in 30 seconds to two minutes. PC games are made to be played for hours straight. The two don't mix.

        Successful arcade games all make use of new and innovative input devices, which is where most of the production cost goes, anyway. There won't be any addtional saving on production, games are already made using PCs and have been for years.

        So in the end, Sega gets to shave some dollars from machine cost, maybe, and the slow death of arcades is prolonged a bit longer.

        I go to arcades all the time and all I see are DDR clones, bad fighting games, bad driving games, goofy games like Namco's horsie ride, and variations on Time Crisis. I see no renaissance of the arcade, not for gamers at least.

        Here in Los Angeles, arcades are not doing well. The last arcade opened years ago. Speedzone out in City of Industry used to have maybe 100 games. Now they have 25 and a lot of prize machines.

        Its a tragedy, but arcades are dead, and Microsoft can't save them.

        • Ever flown a commercial flight simulator, like CAE [cae.com] produces? These things are the bomb - picture a 30 foot high room that can spin like a top. There are lots of companies working on much less expensive versions of exotic simulators - namely flight and automotive/racing - that make use of cheaper projection technology to immerse the player in an environment that you're just not going to get at home.

          The conventional model is dead, yeah. Nobody is going to make money with games like Centipede or even Tekken anymore, and the arcades are dying quick. But - I could definately see people getting bored with playing GT4 on their TV and want to get into a mockup of an Acura NSX and try the same thing, though, especially if they're networked and competitive against other people. Or the same thing with flight sims. Set up national tournaments in immersive environments. Racing for example has a huge following, but most people will never race a indy car. Technology will advance to the point where you could do a life-like simualtion of the indy car circuit virtually, for example.

          There's lots of companies working on this, and before you shirk it too much, I've flown a flight sim based on three projectors and a real cockpit, and it's definately real enough to amaze - even if you never actually move.

          Something to think about, anyhow.

    • a what? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What exactly is an "arcade"?
    • What I've noticed that's popular are those MIdway MegaTouch games(which is no more than a PC with a touchscreen display) that only costs a quarter to play games like Wheel of Fortune and TONS of others.

    • Re:Who is making these decisions? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by CaseyB ( 1105 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:49AM (#2435786)
      This is the environment Sega thinks that they can be successful in?

      No, this is the environment that Sega knows they have been and ARE successful in.

      This is only about introducing the Xbox as another arcade hardware platform for the company, not a change in their strategy. I imagine they'll use Xbox hardware for the "commodity" games, and they'll continue to use their custom hardware for the "A" games.

      • I imagine they'll use Xbox hardware for the "commodity" games, and they'll continue to use their custom hardware for the "A" games.

        I expect you're right. I spent a year and a half at Konami [konami.com] when they still had operations near Chicago. The "commodity" arcade platform at the time was essentially a Playstation with a coin slot. The hardware was nearly identical to the home console, and the same development tools were used. This was in the 96-97 time frame. (The "premium" platform was based on 3DO hardware.)

        Stuffing a home console into an arcade machine isn't exactly a new idea.

    • Furthermore, who on earth is going to pay ($1.00 or more?) to play arcade ports of games that are available for a home system?

      Lots of people. Take Tekken * for example; While the game is fun to play at home, and that's good practice, the only way to go "smack down some scrubs" (as my old housemate used to say) was to go to the arcade. Once you're good, you can play cheaply. Likewise, the scrubs pay to get experience against someone who actually knows how to play, because even losing will teach you something if you're paying attention.

      A video arcade is a social phenomenon in a way that even networked games cannot provide (unless you're playing them in a lan party context, and even that's not quite the same.) Kids (and non-kids) go to the arcades to play games and socialize.

      It's notable that a number of arcade games have been based on home system hardware. Killer Instinct, Nintendo's mediocre but attractive fighter, is a N64 with a hard disk. Area 51 was a sega saturn. The list doesn't stop here, but I think I've made my point as it is. This is a brilliant move because it will keep Sega from having to continue developing hardware for arcade systems, and they won't have to do any work to "port" a game to the home system outside of adding extra features, and lately they haven't been doing much of that anyway. (See 18 Wheeler American Pro Trucker if you don't believe me. Parking challenge? Whoo-hoo!)

  • "Ed Fries, vice president of games publishing at Microsoft, said he welcomed the news, although he said the company has no immediate plans to produce versions of any of its own Xbox games for the arcade platform."
    If this is the case, why are they making X-Box compatible hardware if the games still have to be ported? Furthermore... ported to what?
    • Sega's arcade hardware has always been beefier than their home consoles. For instance the Genesis was no System16 (Altered Beast was much better looking in the arcade).

      This is probally more of the same, Sega is beefing up the X-Box for arcade use. So while it won't take too much work to port a game between the arcade and home versions there will be a little work to make the transition.
    • At the very least, the arcade version will use different storage formats. Loading from DVD or a custom disc-based format is completely inappropriate for an arcade box.

      Of course, then there's things coin-slot detection, to know when to start the game (yes, this could be somewhat standardized, but you'd want some integration into your attract screen), etc.

      Not to mention that the arcade box might have more features (more standard memory, slightly faster CPU, etc).

      All of this is pretty standard for arcade boxes based on consoles...Similar situations exist for the PS2-based arcade board as well as Naomi (the Sega Dreamcast based arcade board).

  • Great... (Score:4, Troll)

    by devnullkac ( 223246 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:12AM (#2435659) Homepage


    So now I can look forward to paying 50 cents to see the blue screen of death. I wonder if the arcade attendants will need to get MCSE certification...


    • Re:Great... (Score:5, Funny)

      by sharkey ( 16670 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @12:15PM (#2436463)
      I wonder if the arcade attendants will need to get MCSE certification...

      Speak for yourself. I can't wait for the sit-down, wraparound-sound, motion-simulator versions of Minesweeper and Solitaire to be out. They'll rock the standup version in no time flat!
    • Uh, hehe... no. It's the hardware, not necessarily the OS. Sega made a big deal initially about Windows CE compatibility in the first revisions of the Dreamcast, then gradually dropped the name (only a few games were using it anyway).

      Inside the Box is pretty strong:

      Modified GeForce 3
      nVidia motherboard
      Decent speed chip and decent sized hard drive

      To be honest, as it is, most Slashdotters would love to have a cheap system like this to work with (and come November, some of us will).

    • >I wonder if the arcade attendants will need to get MCSE certification...

      Can you think of a better use for an MCSE?

      -l

  • the real drag is... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spyderbyte23 ( 96108 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:22AM (#2435690) Homepage
    The reason to do this is so that Sega can move games from arcade to XBox or vice-versa, right? So I think, reading this, you have to expect that Sega intends to do a lot of development on XBox. Currently they are supporting all three consoles by their former rivals, but most of the interesting stuff was going to PS2 and Gamecube. Until Friday, when it was announced that Shenmue II was cancelled in the US on Dreamcast and would be exclusive to the XBox [planetdreamcast.com].

    I would reluctantly guess that we can expect to see more of Sega's best stuff on XBox. I am of two minds about this, because it will tempt me to buy an XBox, and I already wanted a Gamecube.

    • I recommend remaining with your choice of the gamecube. Go to the Nintendo GameCube website [nintendogamecube.com] and check out the CubeClubs. Basically these are events in select cities where you can go play the GameCube with a lot of different games. I went to the one in Atlanta, GA a few weeks ago and I have to say that Star Wars is absolutely breathtaking. I felt like I was actually in the movie controlling the X-wing. You can do many different missions though, and use a lot of different vehicles. Another one I really liked was Madden 2002. I've been a fan of Madden ever since it was Madden 64. I have played Madden 2002 for PS2 at a friend's house and I thought the graphics were really great but the play was unresponsive. Well, for GameCube, as expected, that is fixed. The players respond immediately to what you press on the controller. Oh, and that reminds me, the controller for GameCube is really cool. I was skeptical at first sight on cube.ign.com [ign.com] but when I held it in my hand it just felt right. They've really outdone themselves with this system, trust me... or go to a Cube Club.
      • Go to the Nintendo GameCube website [nintendogamecube.com] and check out the CubeClubs.

        Well, there isn't one in my city. The reason I was thinking Gamecube was the previews of anticipated titles I've seen: new Resident Evil, new Zelda, Soul Kalibur sequel, etc. Already I think they've gotten away from the "kids only" thing that plagued the N64.

        But I go where the games are. I had no intention of buying a Dreamcast until the first time I played the original Soul Kalibur. I'm not sick of my little baby yet; maybe next year, I'll do some comparison shopping of the consoles that are out there and see how things stand then.

    • I say get both, if you possibly can afford it.

      The ease of programming on the XBOX means we'll see some really good games for it in the near future, as opposed to some consoles these days (*cough*PS2*cough*) which are so alien to developers that the games tend to be crap until the 2nd or 3rd generation.

      And then, of course, the GameCube is bound to have great games from Nintendo, not to mention the new rogue squadron game, and super monkey ball.

      Personally I skipped the PS2, none of the games available for it (currently) appeal to me...Not enough of a car racing fan for GT3... However, I plan on buying both the XBOX and the GameCube.
    • Before the Shenmue deal, Gamecube and PS2 were getting the better end of Sega?

      The sports games are going to everyone.
      GameCube was getting:
      -Super Monkey Ball (looks pretty cool)
      -a port of Phantasy Star Online.

      PS2 was getting:
      -Rez (pretty cool)
      -Virtua Fighter 4 (very cool)
      -a bunch of games only coming to Japan.

      The Xbox was getting:
      -Jet Set Radio Future (should be one of the best games of next year)
      -Panzer Dragoon (one of the most anticipated games by long time Sega fans)
      -Gun Valkyrie
      -Sega GT

      Between Jet Set and Panzer Dragoon, I think Xbox was getting the best of the 3. Now it is also getting Shenmue 2?

      The Xbox boys are doing something right.
      • The sports games are going to everyone.

        Are the sports games going to XBox? I hadn't seen that announced yet.

        GameCube was getting:
        -Super Monkey Ball (looks pretty cool)
        -a port of Phantasy Star Online.
        Well first of all, PSO is a tour de force, so that's a pretty big deal. If Nintendo gets its networking solution together, it's going to inherit the PSO community and have a chance to addict a much larger number of players to the joys of console MMORPGs.

        But second, Gamecube is also getting Sonic, and that's going to be really cool. In the Dreamcast version, you could raise Chaos on the VMU, which was moderately amusing; on the Gamecube, you'll be able to raise the Chaos on the GBA. This will not only be better(I didn't like carrying a VMU around, because I didn't want to lose it and lose all my saved games) but it will let Nintendo leverage Sonic to sell GBAs.

        • > Are the sports games going to Xbox?

          Actually, upon further inspection, sports games are going to PS2 and Xbox, not currently announced for GameCube. It looks like this round, they all go Dreamcast, plus NFL2K2 and NBA2K2 on Xbox and PS2.

          As far as PSO goes - it has also been announced for Xbox, and possibly PS2. Among the broadband community, it looks like Xbox has the best online strategy. For those who want to use only modems, its a toss up between PS2 and GC.

          >Gamecube is also getting Sonic

          Ah, how could I forget. As far as Nintendo leveraging Sonic to sell GBAs? Nope, it'll be the other way around.....they're gonna have to use GBAs to leverage sales of GameCube. GBA is definitely the best portable platform....GameCube is up against two other systems with the potential to "beat" it.
          • As far as PSO goes - it has also been announced for Xbox, and possibly PS2. Among the broadband community, it looks like Xbox has the best online strategy. For those who want to use only modems, its a toss up between PS2 and GC.

            Gee, I thought I was pretty in the loop. PSO for XBox? I'm rethinking my future purchase plans. I want to play the next Resident Evil [thegia.com] game too, though...and I keep hearing such great things about ICO...Dammit! I want a universal console!

          • As far as PSO goes - it has also been announced for Xbox, and possibly PS2. Among the broadband community, it looks like Xbox has the best online strategy. For those who want to use only modems, its a toss up between PS2 and GC.
            What is the difference in broadband strategies for X-Box versus PS2? Both parent companies have not announced anything substantial besides "Oh, we're going to have the best online platform", etc., etc.. Only thing is that you're going to have to buy a ethernet adapter/modem for PS2 versus one included for X-Box as far as I know. Personally, I wouldn't put too much faith in this console generation's ability to do online games. The lack of experience by all 3 companies for an online console makes this generation a testing ground only. Also, I believe new games have to be invented that take advantage of online capabilities becaues the current games such as Bond, SSX, Tony Hawk, etc. are mainly aimed for live interaction when your other player is next to you. Plus, most console games rely on lots of timing (sports games, fighting games), so with lag of up to 100ms or quite possibly greater, it will be hard to grasp how the current games will cope with these issues.

  • Haiku (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It seems Sega will
    port X-Box to the arcade.
    Sony caught sleeping.
  • I don't believe the future of arcades is the Pac-man and Donky Kong (or even Mortal Kombat) of years past. If you want to compete against someone in a high quality, graphically appealing game it can be done at home.

    However, the future of arcades does appear to be in PC networked games. In a remote corner of a mall near Hartford, CT this weekend I noticed what used to be a shop full of 20 networked PC's with kids playing Quake.

    How much future is there for the stand up two player model?
  • I can see it now...

    The new Mortal Kombat X.
    With new character Cybergates, and his finishing move, The BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH!!!
  • It's a great idea, since it gives people a chance to sample the Xbox, and there's some money to be made, too.

    Nintendo did thid back in the mid 1980's, remember the Play-Choice 10, anyone?
    • No, but I remember the NeoGeo aracade box. Look what it did for NeoGeo (great hardware for the time, but...)
    • They aren't really going for the Play-Choice 10 type setup (or even NeoGeo) ...

      What they are doing here is much more like Naomi. Naomi was Sega's 'arcade' version of the Dreamcast hardware. It powered many fairly recent arcade games including Crazy Taxi.

      The basic idea is that they have this platform that they write arcade games for...Since its based on an existing console (Dreamcast then, XBOX now) when it comes time to do the home version they can reuse almost all of the same code with no changes.

      This system is really meant to make it easy to go from the arcade to home, not the other way around (as it would first seem).
  • In all seriousness, does a machine in an arcade really need all the features that the xbox contains..
    I mean, from the xbox website, its features include:
    Remembering that most of an arcade's revenue comes from people who drop in, play a game and leave - and even with hardcore gamers, are you really going to sit down and use the inbuilt DVD playing features?
    I mean - the xbox was designed as a home console, windows based etc.. An arcade machine is a specialised device that has the raw features that are necessary in such an environment. Cost is important, as every increased dollar cuts into total revenue.
    Of course there's the argument to be raised that some of the more advanced features such as this will be disabled, but then again - why not just use a machine/system that didn't have useless features in the first place
    Anyways, I'll stop rambling on, but I'm sure you can see my point.

  • What SEGA SHOULD be doing.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by squaretorus ( 459130 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:31AM (#2435726) Homepage Journal
    This may be seen as off topic, but...

    SEGA has done two great things for the world. Hedgehogs and driving games. SEGA should do hedgehogs and driving games. Simple as that.

    Do one or two things exceptionally well, bugger volume! I'd pay a premium to play SEGA hedgehog or driving games on ANY platform - Arcade(yes please!), PC, Xbox, PS2, gamecube, handheld... you name it, I'll play it.

    Hedgehogs and driving games!
    Sonic Team - the U2 of games!

    • Re:What SEGA SHOULD be doing.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Cutriss ( 262920 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:58AM (#2435828) Homepage
      SEGA has done two great things for the world. Hedgehogs and driving games. SEGA should do hedgehogs and driving games. Simple as that.

      I beg to differ. Watch as I karma-whore my way into greatness by rallying Sega-fanboys and geeks alike by reminding you of Sega's other immense successes:

      Phantasy Star series
      Alex Kidd series
      Shining Force series
      NiGHTs Into Dreams
      Panzer Dragoon series
      Ecco the Dolphin series
      Toejam and Earl series
      Eternal Arcadia (Skies of Arcadia in US)
      Jet Set Radio (AKA Jet Grind Radio)
      Virtual On series
      Sakura Taisen series
      Virtua Fighter series

      And then, you have all the *real* old school stuff...Shinobi, Out Run, Space Harrier, Alien Syndrome, Flicky, Bloxeed, Psycho Fox...

      Not to mention a wide array of some excellent third party titles that have a significant background history, like Capcom's port of Strider, Radiant Silvergun, all the SNK home ports...The Genesis may have been Sega's highlight in history...but that doesn't mean that everything else they've done was a failure.
      • I'm no Sega fanboy, but hoorah for Cutriss.

        Except for two things, of course.

        1) Defining these as 'immense successes' is dubious to a certain extent. Sure, most of them were great games, but very few were commercial successes. Jet Grind Radio sold remarkably few units, NiGHTs was likewise a sales disaster (despite huge critical acclaim). The biggest sellers you list there are Virtua Fighter (the arcade hardware for VF4 is Naomi-based, and the home console conversion is targetted at PS2) and Sakura Taisen, which is squarely aimed at the Japanese audience.

        2) You forgot Burning Rangers.

        A Shining Force sequel for XBox would, of course, cement my purchase of the system.
      • Toejam and Earl!!! - I mailed those guys a while back, asking them to open up the source to that baby, or turn it into a java game or something! they said no :-(

        Can't dig out their contacts... anyone know where these guys are now?

        OK - Hedgehogs, Driving games, and aliens!

  • An obvious development, back in March! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AtariDatacenter ( 31657 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:35AM (#2435738)
    Back in March, I posted this reply [slashdot.org] to a story about capcom calling it quits [slashdot.org]. Specifically, I said:

    Today, the situation is quite difference. In fact, the X-Box seems to put the final nail in the coffin. Arcade game manufacturers may very well stop creating arcade games on custom hardware. Instead, they'll compile for an X-Box style platform. Why? For the ease of conversion to the home game. That's where the money is. The arcade game is just the 'advertisement' to create the buzz.

    I don't pretend to have my finger on the pulse of the arcade industry, but it seemed like an obvious development. There isn't much need to create custom arcade hardware when you've got something like the X-Box that you can develop arcade games on and later port to the home PC (and X-Box game console).

    Quite a good strategy, for Microsoft and Sega.
    • I don't pretend to have my finger on the pulse of the arcade industry, but it seemed like an obvious development.

      So obvious, in fact, that it's been going on for ages. The System 246 hardware that powers Tekken 4 and other Namco games is essentially a PS2. Sega's previous arcade hardware was essentially a Dreamcast. System 11 (or was it 12?) was a PSX in an arcade case. And so on.

    • I don't pretend to have my finger on the pulse of the arcade industry, but it seemed like an obvious development. There isn't much need to create custom arcade hardware when you've got something like the X-Box that you can develop arcade games on and later port to the home PC (and X-Box game console).

      Quite a good strategy, for Microsoft and Sega.

      But everywhere else, isn't Microsoft trying to move away from "pay-once" to "pay-per-use?" Here, they seem to be doing the opposite. Arcade games are pay-per-use. If a kid pays once for the home version of the arcade game, Microsoft ceases making money from that kid on that title. In the old days, where the home version of the game was only okay, kids would continue to play the superior arcade versions, so the game company could have its cake and eat it, too. But does that still hold true if the difference between the arcade and home versions of a game has been whittled down to only the environment in which it is played? I mean, I'd pick a sitting in a comfy chair with a clean bathroom and full fridge a few steps away, over an arcade full of punk-ass, trash-talking wiggers any day. I didn't have that choice growing up with Atari 2600- and ColecoVision-caliber systems, but considering how many arcades have vanished in the last couple of years, it seems like most people nowadays are choosing the comfy chair and all the trimmings.

      It just seems like a waste to me to develop special arcade hardware that's only going to be a 'commercial' for a game, when the ordinary in-store demo units do the same thing for less cost, and the game is right there for purchase on impulse after a short tryout.

      ~Philly

  • Please please (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:37AM (#2435744) Journal
    I wonder if it would be possible to build/hack a JAMMA [mameworld.net] adapter for Sega's new board...??

    • Umm? Confused?

      Surely Sega's new board will work natively with an arcade monitor? Hey, it might be med-res, but even that's unlikely. Low res (or, more accurately, low sync) monitors are still pretty much the norm in arcade games...

      Remember; JAMMA is still the "standard" for arcade games. Underneath all of the hydraulics, fancy controllers and projection displays most modern arcade games will still run on a standard +5v,+12v 52pin edge connector with a low resolution monitor - you don't _need_ an adaptor!

      (And if you do need a medium res monitor then there's no reall alternative to buying another cab...)

  • Why people go to arcades (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Migelikor1 ( 308578 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:46AM (#2435773) Homepage
    This is a legitimate business move. One of the main reasons people go to arcades is to play other people. A good friend of mine bought a copy of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 for his Dreamcast and hardly plays it anymore. He's had it maybe three weeks. However, he still goes to arcades and spends hour after hour playing Marvel vs. Capcom 2. The Dreamcast version he can play at home on his big screen TV is arcade perfect (arguably better than the arcade version), but playing a computer-controlled opponent just can't compare to playing another person. Computer-controlled opponents have routines and tendencies that become familiar to players after a while. On the other hand, if console networking continues to improve that incantive decreases. There is a lure to having a physical opponent to scream insults at, but is it strong enough?
    • Well, sometimes you like to get out of the house and from under mom and dad's scrutiny, unless your friend actually has his own place than it could just be hanging out.


      Now that you brought up the idea of playing against other people... There's a chain called Dave and Buster's which put in in the Milpitas, CA mall, where probably six or more people can compete at the same time in races and who knows what and you can get decent food and beer and stuffs, I'd probably drop a few bills there, but not as a habit.


      Anyone have an idea what's become of FASA's BattleTech centers, where players could crush each others mechs around the country in a simulator?

    • Why not just get some friends? Its cheaper.

  • Longevity of Sega Properties (Score:3, Interesting)

    by disc-chord ( 232893 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @09:49AM (#2435788)
    I can't believe how many people are rushing to post speculations without reading the articles. Posting without reading the articles is like a first post, useless to the discussion.

    This is more than just a power play to be the arcade hardward source (despite the speculations of some people here, Sega has been doing pretty good in the arcades) this is also a good oportunity for Sega franchises to continue on a new platform. Think about the first time you saw Sonic? Everyone instantly fell in love with him. For those of you that play imports, Sakura Taisen probably holds a special place in your heart. Phantasy Star, admitadly a knock-off on Final Fantasy, is hugely popular. While some people are questioning this move, I think this is Sega playing to it's strenghts.
    • Phantasy Star does, indeed, hold a special place in my heart. It was the first console RPG that rivalled my beloved text-based adventure games for play value.

      I take exception with the notion that Phantasy Star was a rip-off of Final Fantasy, however, as it was released in 1987. A full 3 years before Final Fantasy made its way onto the NES platform.

      It was actually released slightly before Dragon Warrior, a far inferior RPG that received a great deal more attention.

      And while Final Fantasy I and Phantasy Star are quite different (FFI being more traditionally RPG and PS incorporating futuristic themes), I would note that I was struck by how the later Final Fantasy themes would begin to rip off the original Phantasy Star (from 1987!!!), with the incorporation of a great deal of science fiction and the adopting of a standard scenario whereby the world was a combination of technical and magical components.

      Sega has often set the bar by which other console games are judged, only to regretfully be forgotten about themselves. They just couldn't sell enough console units to generate buzz, and eventually their game quality decreased even as their engineering grew more apt.

      Still, their existing Arcade games are head-and-shoulders above most, in my opinion. When I go to the Arcade (twice a year?), it's not to play Tekken Tag or any of the more mindless games, it's to play the queer looking machines that have strange controllers, odd viewpoints, fascinating takes.... by and large, these machines proudly sport the "Sega" insignia.

      -l
    • Phantasy Star, admitadly a knock-off on Final Fantasy

      That's it! No karma risk is too great when Phantasy Star is on the line! I'll have you know that the original Phantasy Star was hardly a FF knock-off. First off, the smooth-scrolling 3D dungeons were something totally unparalleled at the time - on console or computer. Combat resembled something out of Wizardry or Dragon Warrior more than the silly superdeformed sideways battles of FF. During battle the enemies were actually animated - something FF never achieved until it went 3D on the playstation (two orders of word-size later). GHA! To have the greatest 8-bit videogame console of all time compared to a bit of trash where the end boss flickers threateningly at you!
  • I got this from WinInfo:

    I'm waiting to see how Microsoft spins this news into a positive:
    This month, the company quietly downgraded the Xbox hard disk from the expected 10GB part to a smaller 8GB unit, apparently to save costs.
    I've heard a lot of talk about this move, but my favorite line comes from a Gartner analyst, who said, "Maybe Fry's had a sale [on 8GBdrives]." Nice.

  • Not too surprising (Score:4, Flamebait)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @10:00AM (#2435839) Homepage Journal
    For years arcade games were built around custom computers and very costly. Lately I've seen a string of machines which have a certain 'vanilla' look to them. Different (large) adhesive panels affixed and of course the requisite controls for the particular game, but arcades don't appear to be the gold mines they once were, either.

    Heck, there's a couple games at the laundry I often use and only once in over a year have I seen anyone play them.

    Putting the xbox guts into these machines might be a cost effective solution, but I dunno. If the whole thing is supposed to sell for $499, even at cost I think they could do better. I wonder if there'll be any marketing through stenographic or subliminal messages...

    Insert 1 coin for one player

    Insert 2 coins for two players

    Insert 5 coins for customer support

    Insert 20 coins to recover from blue screen

    Insert 100 coins if you don't want captured video of you getting your worst score ever published on the web

    WINners DOn't use drugs!
    WinnerS eXPerience the
    GOOD LIfe! Never Underestimate
    the power of the Xbox, Boys AnD
    girls!

  • This is a good move for them, even thought it would have been better if they selected the PS2 or the Gamecube in lieu of the Xbox. Sega has allways done a good job, IMHO, in the arcades and I hope the best for them because they did a pretty good job with their hardware in the past.
  • I would be pretty mad playing an arcade game, then getting the blue screen of death because I'm running a Micro$oft product.
  • Who would want to play some crappy 4 years outdated arcade machine.

    The NEW high end games have the NEW video cards before we do and don't you think they need a fast machine to handle that.

    Who cares about Xbox.

  • wow (Score:1)

    by llzackll ( 68018 )
    I would have never thought a PC would make it to the arcade
  • Everything I touch...turns to mush.

    Sega is proving itself to be cutting-edge-and-then-abandon before technology can take a foothold. I'd hate to see this kill the XBox as Japanese will perceive it as the next Sega Machine.

    At least this in line with the XBox Dreamcast compatibility rumor from earlier this year.

  • Arcades will be the real test for XBox chipset (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SysKoll ( 48967 ) on Tuesday October 16, 2001 @12:21PM (#2436500)

    I was wondering if Microsoft would get away with putting a crappy OS in a consumer box.

    Now, arcades are not exactly the place where you tolerate crashes or BSODs. The mobo has to be glitch-free, and the software shouldn't crash ever.

    Point 1 (mobo never crashing) is hard enough with server PCs. Considering the speed of the XBox graphics subsystem and the corner-cutting (a.k.a. price-reduction engineering) required in a high-volume chipset, this will be no mean feat.

    Obviously, Sega will develop specific motherboards for this application, but they'll need to use the same chip set, which already suffered from the usual bane of highly complex chips (bugs founds in production). Sega can't allow these chips to glitch their arcade machines. The arcade manager would pull the plug at the first crash and call service. How are they going to solve this problem? Sorting and cooling? Anyone knows?

    Point 2 is interesting. If the XBox's OS and DirectX layer can really withstand the day-long, intensive use of a high-perf game machine without crashing, then Microsoft should be commended for a great QA job.

    And if it cannot stand the intensive load, then a lot of gamers will see these "XBox Inside" Sega machines with the plug pulled and an out-of-use sign. This will not look too good for the sales of the XBox.

    If MS can survive this, they'll have an impressive product on their hands. Hyperactive teens pounding on your mobo are no substitute for good design, but they are a good substitude for a high-speed test vector generator! :-)

    -- SysKoll
  • Does anyone go to the arcades anymore? Everytime I go by one it seems that there are only a couple of people playing games at any time. Contrast that with my High School days in the early 80's when there were LINES for most of the good games. And as a whole the arcades were PACKED - even during the day. (not that I ever skipped school to play games, of course....)

    (Who remembers people lining up their quarters on the consoles to hold their place in line?)

    Anyway the point being -- is there significant money to be made in the Arcade game motherboard market?
  • Naomi 2 is probably STILL more powerful than the X-Box.
  • when does the hacked by chinese game come out?
  • ...even for Sega. Sega's cartridge-based NAOMI arcade system is the same hardware as the Dreamcast. (At least, when released, it was the same hardware, with an extensible architecture, meaning it could be extended to improve rendering speed above that over the DC, for future "arcade-improved" releases).

    This is why their recent ports of the arcade games have been so quick (simultaneous arcade and home releases), and so "arcade-perfect". No time was spent porting the game engines, just on the interface changes.

    I believe they also have a software porting layer for the ps2, now, so that they can do essentially simultaneous releases of Arcade, DC, and PS2 (see Capcom vs. SNK 2).

    So they've done this before, and it seems to have had the desired effects for the most part. Why not do this, if it doesn't cost too much to adapt the hardware, when you can do the same home development and get an arcade version of the game "for free", to make whatever money you can off that. Now they're just doing it for someone else's system instead of their own, much like making their games for others' systems, instead of their own.

    -Puk
  • as long as they license/buy the rights to remake Cyberball. Yeah, that's the ticket.
  • Between Xbox and Game Cube I think the console market has become too rectilinear. I hereby announce a new competitor to the home console market - the PlaySphere. The PlaySphere is a revolutionary dual mode game system! In primary mode the PlaySphere supports all the conventional console games. PlaySphere's secondary mode supports an entirely new class of games - WirelessGaming(tm).

    While WirelessGaming(tm) tiles will initally be more expensive than traditional cartridge games, we expect mass market economics to eventually drive their cost below that of cartriges. Our current list of WirelessGaming(tm) titles includes:

    VollySphere

    SphereCatch

    Rolly-Polly-Sphere

    DodgeSphere

    BasketSphere

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