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Games Entertainment

Gamecube Guts 138

Posted by michael from the pg-13 dept.
CamelTrader writes: "I was runnin around the net looking for info on dreamcast controller hacks and I found this sweet site that exposes the guts of a gamecube. The pics are here. Take a gander at the rest of the GamesX site if you are into hardware hacking, its very cool."
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Gamecube Guts More

Gamecube Guts

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  • See with teh DC it was simple for people to burn their own games, but the GC uses those wee discs that are harder to find. Now the pioneer machine has its own dvd drive but taking the top off a big N GC will allow playing of cdrs one assumes.


    Still as SOON as one come out in the UK i will buy one to sit beside my DC

    • Re:The only worry is about pirate games... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Aztech ( 240868 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @06:55AM (#2521832)
      Remember these 'wee' discs are not the same as the 8mm mini CD's [redcorp.com] you find now and then, they are truly weird custom 5mm DVD's which I doubt you'll ever find on the market unless some factory in China does a major haul. They are also double-layered [gamesx.com], none of the DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD+RW drives handle double-layered discs of any kind.

      I doubt the GC could play games from CDR, given the fact it doesn't read Redbook audio discs this probably indicates it doesn't read CD's at all.

      Also... did you see the custom authentication strips [gamesx.com] on the innerside of the disc, try and get your DVD-R to burn those!
      • Three technical things about pirating GameCube games:

        1. If taking the top off will help people put full CDs or DVDs in there, then A LOT of them will do it. Who thought anyone would solder a chip to their console, or send it off to be soldered on by a "piracy professional"? Yet lots of people did with the PlayStation.

        2. Someone will find a way to replicate the safety strip, probably with regular PC hardware. If not, someone will make something themselves that can do it, and they will sell the pirated discs directly for a cheap price. Cartridges are difficult to pirate, but CDs and DVDs are still widely-used, easily burnable things. I have confidence that someone will find a way.

        3. DVD burners aren't ubiquitous in PCs yet. But then again, CD burners weren't ubiquitous when the PlayStation came out. But they WERE ubiquitous in the last three years of the PlayStation's life, and especially in the last two. Unless the GameCube bombs faster than the Virtual Boy, piracy for it will eventually be widespread.

        I don't condone piracy of new games. I am saying all of this just because I think the technical side of piracy is interesting, so please, waste your "privacy is wrong" flames on someone that doesn't agree with you.

        • What about how it's suppose to spin "backwards" how do you get around that? manually spin your black CD/DVD when you burn it?

        • Re:The only worry is about pirate games... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Aztech ( 240868 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @08:44AM (#2522018)
          They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips, and as somebody else has indicated the discs spin in an inverse spiral, that's even if you can get hold of the discs since they're a custom size and spec. This isn't like PSX games, it would be very difficult to burn these things with a off the shelf DVD burner.

          As you indicated if a relatively simply operation allows people to play dodgy games then a lot of people will go down that path, Nintendo know this too well, hence all the engineering to make the drive as non-standard as possible, even if this means they have to fab and press non-standard discs at added cost it's still worth it in their eyes.

          I doubt taking the top off the box will let you use standard CDR's as stated before, if it doesn't play RedBook audio disc's then I doubt it plays any ISO9660 discs. They might have gone as far as using a different laser wavelength than standard DVD's.

          • They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips, and as somebody else has indicated the discs spin in an inverse spiral, that's even if you can get hold of the discs since they're a custom size and spec. This isn't like PSX games, it would be very difficult to burn these things with a off the shelf DVD burner.

            This is where the "CD burners weren't ubiquitous when the PlayStation was released" part comes in. CD burners have come a long way since the PlayStation came out. In fact, I think they may have been in the $600-$700+ Dark Ages when the PlayStation came out. In the last year and a half of the PlayStation's life (and the PS1 games can still be pirated to your new PS2), CD burners came standard with your new Dell/Compaq/Gateway/Whatever machine, and were at $100-$150 alone. The point? Sure, you can't pirate GameCube games easily NOW, but technology will catch up fast. If DVD burners don't start coming out with dual layer capability, then packages of blank, specially made DVDs, complete with the GameCube security strip already on them, will start appearing on Lik-Sang [lik-sang.com]. The point is, if someone doesn't figure out how to do it immediately, then technology in general will find a way soon, because writable DVD technology is bound to be a quickly growing market, much like writable (and rewritable) CD technology was a quickly growing market until it became completely ubiquitous in new PCs.

            As for the whole "inverse spinning" thing, the page makes no mention of that, and someone here has already said it's a rumor. Personally, I'm inclined to think that it IS a rumor, because I've been to that site many times before, and I seriously doubt that they would've noticed that the laser range is larger than the disc, but not notice that the disc is spinning backwards at the same time.

            I doubt taking the top off the box will let you use standard CDR's as stated before, if it doesn't play RedBook audio disc's then I doubt it plays any ISO9660 discs. They might have gone as far as using a different laser wavelength than standard DVD's.

            I completely agree. Using CDRs is a long shot, but I think someone should still try it out as a test. It would be dumb NOT to try it out.

            • They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips

              The old Sega Saturn had a security track similar to these "protection strips" as well. It needed this, as Saturn games were all simple Mode1 CD-ROMs. As the game booted up, the Saturn would check the security track (burned on the very edge of the CD, and impossible to replicate on normal burners).

              The hacker's solution to this was to muck with the Saturn BIOS so that it "forgot" to check the security track.

              My point is, if the Gamecube's DVD-drive mechanism is a standard component (and doubtless it is, probably the same Matushita mechanism in Panasonic DVD players), HACKERS WILL FIND A WAY, whether it's to sell 1337 Gamecube games for $10 on their website or to backup that import game they paid $75 for.

              It doesn't matter if the discs themselves use proprietary format, how they spin, or anything lik e that. Sega's Dreamcast used proprietary GD-ROMs that were uncopyable by normal CD-R drives, but since the drive mechanisms were standard Yamaha 12x CD-ROMs, CD-ROM booting was made possible.

              The same thing will happen with the "closed" Gamecube, although undoubtedly the Xbox will be easier to hack.

              • There is an oddity about the GC discs that will be quite a hurdle to overcome.

                Unlike normal optical disc drives, the GC drive does not increase RPMs as the laser moves to the outside of the disc, it stays constant.

                But like you said, there will be a hacker somewhere who gets past this too (no doubt).

                It's going to take a long time and a lot of hacking though. And I doubt that anyone will find a marketable hack (people are less inclined to rip their stuff apart than you may think).

          • But when you look at Nintendo's track record, that seems to be exactly what they intend to do. I'm quite sure that the N-64 cartridge-based thing was not entirely due to load times. Some of that had to be to discourage piracy.

            With the Dreamcast, it was the same thing. They used a larger (AFAIK 1Gb) CD, but enterprising people were able to strip out the essentials in order to fit it onto 700mb. I seem to remember friends talking about not having music on a game because it wouldn't fit or some such comment. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

            The other thing about burned games is the tendency to wreck the system (I've heard horrible grinding noises from my friend's coupled with the sound not working on games). For a DC, that amounts to about 100 bucks (Canadian), so it really isn't too bad. For a GC, that's substantially more.
        • If there were an ethernet device I would mention booting an image off of the network (kinda like you can with Dreamcast). Looking at amateur software development methods is, of course, a nice, legitimate way of looking at whole console backup idea. Some of the free software [boob.co.uk] written for the Dreamcast is pretty smooth.

          I expect there to be a backup device for the GameCube just as there have been for most game machines. Take the N64, for example, there was the Z64 [expressbuilder.com], and the Doctor V64 [pacificgrove.com] which let you play N64 backups off of CDs. I imagine a backup unit for the GameCube to use the serial or parallel ports and probably use CD or DVD media, or maybe it would have hard drive or use a network file system.

          In any case the internals of the GameCube look pretty smooth. The only hardware hack I can think up at this moment would be replace the cooling fan with a nice, loud ~50cfm fan :)
      • You mean 8cm mini CD's and 5cm DVD's right? Othervise they are really really really small.
      • 8mm cds would be pretty small. (actualy, there wouldn't even be room for a data track).

    • Still as SOON as one come out in the UK i will buy one to sit beside my DC



      http://www.projectk.com/ [projectk.com] are advertising US import ones in the UK (see back pages of Edge magazine)

    • They don't. They spin clockwise, same as every other console I have handy to check with. Strangely I don't actually own a CD player...

      I dunno who started that little rumor. Or maybe it's only south of the equator they spin the wrong way?

      Lawrence.
      • Are you Lawrence Wright? Your site is sweet and I am surprised that some of these stories weren't mentioned here sooner. It is good to see some more frequent updates lately. I have been checking out your site for years, ever since it was part of the store.

  • Glad someone has the guts ! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anton Anatopopov ( 529711 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @06:25AM (#2521785)
    Whenever a new piece of hardware comes out, there is always one pioneering hacker who takes the risk, and opens the damn thing up to find out whats inside.

    Long live this spirit of investigation. It is what true hacking (as opposed to cracking) is all about.

    Whenever I buy a PC, the first thing I do, before I even plug it in, is take the case apart and have a look inside. Am I the only one who does this ? I doubt it :-)

    • guts? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A real pioneering hacker will freeze the whole system with dry ice, mill 0.1mm, take a picture, mill another 0.1mm, take a picture, etc, until the whole thing has been 3D-scanned in visible light.
    • Some of us don't even buy PC's, we buy parts and assemble them ourselves. [snicker]

      Seriously, I imagine most people here are familiar with the inner workings of PC's and/or hardware of some variety, and most are likely inquisitive enough to tear apart a PC to see what components were used (for pre-assembled systems, anyways).
    • Back in 198... er, back when I was but a mere sprat, I maxxed out my credit card to buy a Compaq Portable from a Sears Computer Center. Two 5.25" floppy drives and a whopping 256K of RAM. "You'll never need more that 256K," the salesman told me. I got it home, booted it up under Compaq's MS-DOS 1.1, and was enthralled. Then I turned it off and figured out how to take it apart. Incredible engineering skull-sweat went into that box! The outer shell was tough, impact-resistant plastic. Inside was a carefully constructed anodized aluminum skeleton, fit together to flex rather than fracture. The thing was so designed that you'd have to basically take a logger's maul to it in order to break it. I was impressed.

      Nowadays, of course, I just build 'em myself. One of these days I'd like to do a proper soup-up job on that Compaq Portable...

      Always yield to the hands-on imperative!
    • If you are interested in the components of your PC, then why not build your own rather than paying for a pre-built? Home-brew is the best way to learn hardware skills if you are just starting out. Try to get hold of some cheap (old) hardware and play with that. "...true hacking..." is not just investigating. It is also experimentation and modification, and then sharing that knowledge with the community. Merely opening the case to get the chip model numbers (or HDD make/model etc etc) is not what I would call a hack.

      Have a look at The Jargon Lexicon [tuxedo.org].

      • The problem is finding a guide to building a PC that is not riddled with jargon, and easy enough for the layman to understand.

        I lose the plot when they start talking about Bus-mastering IDEs and Front Side AGP ports and the like.

        Its not quite as easy as it looks to build a PC. Its not lego :-)

    • Think the only reason I open up a case initally is to make sure all the cards are seated correctly. And of course now days some of us want to make sure the CPU fan is seated correctly so the entire thing doesn't burst into flames.
    • Whenever I buy a PC, the first thing I do, before I even plug it in, is take the case apart and have a look inside. Am I the only one who does this ? I doubt it :-)

      I've only ever purchaced one PC in my life. The rest of them have been 'cycled through' with continual upgrades. (that is, eventualy you'll upgrade you're PC enough that you'll be able to build another from used parts and a few extras, like cases/power supplies). So, when I get a 'new' There's no real reason to open it back up, since I just closed it :P
  • looks like most of my systems... and every system @ the ol' portable atari 2600 site...

  • Hacks maybe? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Beowulf_Boy ( 239340 )
    I saw this had an ATI chip in it, maybe there is some way to hook it to a CRT?
    What about a Harddrive like that one webstation that came out from Circuit City a few years ago.
    Or maybe a keyboard? I've always hated game controllers, they never fit my hands right.
    • There is a combination keyboard/controller in the works, per this previous post [slashdot.org].

    • Re:Hacks maybe? (Score:3, Informative)

      by timbloid ( 208531 )
      And again, LikSang [lik-sang.com] come up trumps with a GameCube/N64 VGA adaptor [lik-sang.com], which allows you to:
      • Connect your Game Cube or Nintendo64 console to a VGA monitor for a much brighter display
      • Auto switching between TV game or PC connection (you can connect your PC and GC/N64 at the same time)
      • Automatic PAL/NTSC detection
      • Outputs: Speaker, VGA, AV Multi Out
      • Inputs: VGA, AV Multi, Sound card
      • I bought the PS2 version of this box, the only thing it does is scale 320x240 to 640x480 (by doubling the pixels), so it doesn't really give you a better resolution.

        Is this the same thing for this one, or is it able to
        give you a better resolution (I think the N64/Gamecube support more than 320x240), like the DC vga box?
        • Line doubled to 640x480? yuck. But given that the converter box works with both N64 and GameCube, better resolution should not neccesarily be expected...
          Aren't these consoles supposed to offer HDTV outs?
    • I saw this had an ATI chip in it, maybe there is some way to hook it to a CRT?

      The chip is only produced by ATI. It was designed by someone else.
    • The Gamecube has a DVI port, so you can plug a normal DVI monitor into it.
      • Um, no. It has a proprietary digital video port into which you can plug Nintendo's digital to component video cable. Presumably they should release a digital to RGB video cable as well. Perhaps if someone figures out the spec, they could produce a digital to DVI adapter.
    • how's quack 3 run then?

  • curious about dreamcast controller hacks (Score:4, Interesting)

    by xavii ( 92017 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @06:37AM (#2521804)

    i was more interested in the "dreamcast controller hacks" aspect of the post.

    what exactly is available and what where you looking for?

    dreamcast is now only 80 dollars, a keyboard is 20, plus 20 more for a mouse. add 60 for a broadband adapter and you have a pretty well rounded game console. also, in the coming months, dreamcast stuff will start appearing in funcoland`s and the like and stuff will be cheaper.

    also, there are tons of cool stuff like nester dc [emulation64.com] or a vcd player, a divx player, and tons of other stuff including linuxdc [sourceforge.net]

    i`m looking for a hack for adding other controllers such as an old nintendo controller to play on dreamcast.

    xavii aka bob

    • Who the heck modded the parent to Troll? Looks like a good post to me.

    • "... add 60 for a broadband adapter ..."

      $60 USD? That was the original list price for those little babies, but the fact that they're so hard to find and no longer produced, means that they fetch double to triple that amount these days.

      I have a Dreamcast which I bought recently precisely because of its current budget price, however, the Broadband Adaptor is the one thing I want, but really don't see the cost justification in purchasing.
    • Here in Canada the prices (adjusted to US dollars) for those goods are 60$ for DC + controller, 20$ for keyboard, 13$ for mouse, and 140$ for BBA (since you have to find them secand hand on an action site, and most go far ournd that).

      If you're paying 80$ USD for a Dreamcast, you're being ripped off.

      You can also get the Connectix 4-in-1 which lets you use Playstation/Saturn controllers and PS/2 keyboards (DDR pad + Space Channel 5, Saturn Twinsticks, use an IBM keyboard for 'Typing of the Dead' :))... Lots of fun can be had very cheaply with this great console.

    • Official Sega DC Keyboards are more like $10 brand new, or you can buy a PS2 to DC keyboard/mouse adapter for pennies. But if you can find me some BBAs for $60, please reserve me 20 of them.

      (I'm dead serious. I'd buy 20 at that price, maybe up to 100.)

      < tofuhead >

  • Art. (Score:1)

    by vaxtor ( 520122 )
    I don't know about the rest of you but things like the gamecube are a work of art. Nice Pics...

  • Does it run linux ? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by C0vardeAn0nim0 ( 232451 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @06:50AM (#2521823) Journal
    before moding me down, read the post...

    The CPU is that smaller IBM chip, everithing else is done by the ATI chip.

    Well, we know the CPU is a PowerPC derivative, and we know linux kernel have some support for ATI video cards.

    I just want to know what kind of proprietary stuff or changes ATI and IBM introduced to make things harder for linux hackers...

    Sony already have an official version of our beloved system for PS2, there's a version of linux for the Dreamcast too...

    I hope someone (Nintendo, maybe???) puts togheter a distro for the GameCube too. It's a shame wasting all this hardware just for games.

    BTW, the guy who gutted his Cube just lost the warranty...
    • BTW, the guy who gutted his Cube just lost the warranty...

      Oh HEAVENS, not the warranty!

      Let's think about this for a second--

      • GameCube isn't released in the United States yet, this guys is most likely an import, and can't be serviced in the United States for warranty repair anyways.
      • In the United States anyways, Nintendo's warranty usually lasts a whopping 90 days, after that you're on your own anyways. (Whee, THREE whole months of assurance that the thing doesn't have any defects-- Nintendo sure is confident in their QA department, aren't they? (Of course, I should note, as far as I know every other console maker has a similarly short warranty period, so I guess they're all in the same boat regarding quality assurance)).

      It'd be neat if the warranty lasted longer though, it really would. I'd think there should be some pride involved with this kind of thing.


      • Is that true? Gee I'm glad I live in the UK. 12 month minimum warranty on everything by law.

        I can't believe they let companies get away with setting their own warranties...
        • Yep, completly true. Of course, it IS possible that the US GameCube will have a longer warranty than all of the other previous consoles, but I really doubt it. (This 90-day warranty issue goes back as far as the original NES, so I don't see it changing. =))

          About a mandatory warranty-- it sounds nice on one hand, but on the other it doesn't. As long as the consumer is made aware of the short warranty, I figure the "let the buyer beware" position should suffice. (And the warranty, atleast for Nintendo products, is almost always on the box someplace.) It is interesting that it's required in the UK though, I didn't know that. =)
      • The philosophy behind this isn't that they don't expect the console to die shortly after three months. The way of thinking here is that if the console is treated properly, if it doesn't break in three months, it is probably not ever going to break - at least not in any particularly critical way. On the other hand, if the machine is abused, yeah, it might last three months still, after which, the manufacturer can wash its hands of it. No company wants to be responsible for the negligence of their customers.
      • Just FYI, I currently live in Japan so the warranty on the GameCube is as easy as a five minute trip to the nearest Toys R Us. I don't intend to tell them I opened it if they don't ask. And it's not broken yet anyway. =)

        My xbox warranty is going to be a little harder to take advantage of when I import one from the states in a few days. Gotta gut that too.

        As for 12 month warranties, yes that's a fun idea for the consumer, but I would imagine this is a contributing reason to the UK paying so much more for their consoles.
    • Nope not yet, but their previous console, the N64 did. Here is link to an article dating back to 1997 about an N64 with a dev of linux.
      http://www.ix.de/ix/artikel/E/1997/04/036/

  • Lik-sang had gutted Gamecube long ago (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Titney ( 448995 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @06:57AM (#2521835)
    Hong Kong game store Lik-Sang [lik-sang.com] had pics of a dissasembled gamecube [lik-sang.com] quite a while ago, Sep 12 [lik-sang.com] to be exact.
    They have a bunch of other interesting news, such as the portable screen [lik-sang.com] making the gamecube if not exactly portable, at least luggable.
    • Yeah, they beat me by a whole two days (which was no small source of irritation) 'cause strangely Hong Kong got their systems before the street date in Japan. I had these pictures up the first day of release in Japan - not because I want to be first, but because I wanted to see what was in it.

      GameSX.com is all about my obsessive need to understand how things work, and modify them to suit my own evil ends. If a few other people like the same stuff, great! That's what the site's there for. =)

      Lawrence.

  • Interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by James Foster ( 226728 )
    From the article: "Nintendo stuffed everything possible into as few chips as they could"

    I'm not an emulator guru, but from what I do know, the fewer chips, the easier a system is to write an emulator for! Of course, if those chips are highly complex (as they probably are), then it's still hard but probably not quite as difficult. Is it possible Nintendo have finally succumbed to emulation and have thought about the possibility of themselves writing a GameCube emulator for PC?
    • Probably more like the hardware designers knew they only had so much room to work with.
    • [..] the fewer chips, the easier a system is to write an emulator for!

      This seems like an oversimplification. If the chips integrate the functions of several normally seperate chips, as these surely do, emulation isn't any easier. It may even be harder, in fact, since you can't build on chip emulations that may already be available. With custom ICs like these, getting specs may be more difficult too.

      • Yeah, you're right. Of course it depends on the factors that you mentioned although consoles with several CPUs and other chips are usually well known for being easier to emulate, since all of the chips need to be kept in sync.

  • In other news ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by zensonic ( 82242 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @07:24AM (#2521865) Homepage
    ... the world shortage of aluminum has finally been explained!

    Seriously speaking, it's one big heatsink for a processor known for its low power usage! Gotta be for the flipper chip i guess.

  • Hey, wow, I've been slashdotted! (Score:4, Funny)

    by NEOGEOman ( 155470 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @07:44AM (#2521887)
    Wow, I've finally made the big time after all these years. Just thought I'd say thanks to CamelTrader (whoever you are!) and welcome everyone else to my life's work - GameSX.com.

    It's originally named after a retail store I opened some five years ago - Game Station X - but the store is no more.

    It is, I believe, the single largest collection of game hardware pinouts and hacks and so on. It wouldn't be there without the help of all the fantastic people who've sent in their mods and info, so thanks to everyone!!

    The ISP hosting the site might freak out if it's hit by the normal slashdot traffic. Please try again later if it buckles.

    Lawrence.
    • That didn't take any time at all. Curse these small-town ISPs and their measly drinking-straw pipes to the net.

      Of course, the game-cube page is the single most graphic-intensive page on the site, so it's probably to be expected.

      And four hours until I can call tech support!

      At any rate, I'm sorry the site snuffed it. Please check again later at your leisure.
    • I just wanted to say thanks for making your site, man. I love it. It's very informative and helpful.
    • On the second-to-last big picture, the key has an orange colored bit, in the right corner. That orange was left off the key. What is it? (or don't you know?)

      Thanks.

  • How they got it so small. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Angry Black Man ( 533969 ) <<moc.liamtoh> <ta> <namtramsyrevv>> on Monday November 05, 2001 @07:45AM (#2521889) Homepage
    If you've ever seen the GameCube in person the first thing you probably thought was "Wow it's small!" Well I noticed a few things that contributed to how they made it that size. One was the power source. It's external so it resides in the AC adapter. This thing is fairly large for a console adapter. Here is a picture:Cube IGN [ign.com].

    The second is the processor. IBM has developed a VERY tiny 485Mhz processor for the Cube. It's called the Gekko and is based on PowerPC technology (uses copper wire tech as well). Have a look at it: GameSpot Dossier [gamespot.com].

    The GameCube hardware is unique. The chip is produced by ATI although it was designed by another company (hence, it is not a Radeon). It also features 1T-SRAM developed by MoSys. It's more efficient although not necessarily all that much better than the RAM used in the Xbox. Unfortunately only 24mb out of 40mb of the RAM in the Cube is 1T-SRAM.

  • Does the Japanese machine play US games? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Taurine ( 15678 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @09:47AM (#2522224)
    A month ago a number of sites indicated that when they gutted their GameCubes they found two switches near the position of the region switch that was seen on demonstration machines at shows like SpaceWorld and E3. It was hypothesised that by pushing different switches (I think they were pushed by lugs on the disc door?) you could choose which region of software the machine would accept. It was proved that Japanese software only worked in one of the four possible switch combinations.

    A week or so ago it was reported that some of the mainstream game review sites now had final US region discs. Ever since I have been waiting to see if anyone is able to prove or disprove the hypothesis. If it is right, I (and many others) would cancel our orders for an import US machine, and get a Japanese one right now. Ultimately I will be buying US region software, and possibly the odd European title - how I long for the machine to have an easy multi-region hack!

    Has anyone heard any further news on this stuff?

  • gutting of the gamecube - props (Score:3, Insightful)

    by daevt ( 100407 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @10:31AM (#2522457)
    i think this is one of the best 'gutting of the $product' i've ever seen. it denotes at least a small amount of research, and the color coding legends were a very cool idea. i'd love to see this kinda well thought out gutting done more often.

    good job!

  • XBox (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SilentChris ( 452960 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @10:57AM (#2522640) Homepage
    Ida know-- the XBox still looks like a better choice for hacking than this thing. Everything about the GameCube screams "proprietary". Everything about the XBox screams "hack me".

    That said, I got a chance to play both the GameCube and XBox kiosks, and attend the XBox Unleashed event in New York. The GameCube has a ridiculously functional controller and some really fun games-- it was just plain old entertaining to see Luigi yell "Mario!" in full 3D. The XBox games vary wildly. NFL Fever looked absolutely awful-- almost like a Dreamcast game. Project Gotham Racing and Dead or Alive 3 looked absolutely beautiful. The controller also gave me a mixed opinion of the system. It's large for "real-sized" hands but bulky as well.

    What seals the deal for me, I think, is the hackability. If it turns out that XBox releases some crap games (which is possible) I still have a nice NVidia motherboard, chipset, and PIII to play with. Plus I can always use the hard drive and I'm sure I can tweak the USB ports to fit "regular" USB. GameCube, I don't think, would ever be that tweakable. Heck, I can probably make the XBox into a Linux server if I felt like it.

    I'm going to get an XBox for hackability, and you should, too.

    • Most people buy a gaming console for games. We buy computers and/or computer parts to hack around with.

      Honestly, this is the dumbest reason to buy an XBox.
      • The XBox doesn't impress me, and its games do not impress me. "Hackability" is a pretty weak arguement to buy the hardware. You could spend the money on upgrading your home PC, which has the capability to do so much more than an XBox.
        • What an ignormaus.

          Assumption: you are against Microsoft.

          "You could spend the money on upgrading your home PC, which has the capability to do so much more than an XBox."

          Microsoft is losing about $100 on every XBox they sell. Thus, you're getting PC hardware at a discount price, WHILE screwing Microsoft if you don't purchase any games (The console industry relies on game sales, not hardware, to drive the market. All royality sales are made off software).

          If you really wanted to get Microsoft, you'd purchase the XBox hardware (which has an excellent motherboard) and not buy any games. Fool.

          • Unfortunately you will be helping microsoft spread it's name around, which is probably what they really want anyway. Microsoft has enough cash on hand to take the write down in a single quarter for giving every single person in the united states an XBox. (There latest 10-k lists them as having $32 billion)
            • MS wants to sell the whole widget. Dell has profits. People buy Dells (generally) to run MS OSes. As a monopoly, MS is able to extract MOST of the profits. If they were a pure monopoly, they would get it all. MS has SOME competition, so they have to leave some profits to the OEMs.

              XBox is a multi-billion dollar play to get their systems into homes. They are trying to monopolize the gaming market.

              The problem is, without analyzing the console penetration, game developers won't know if Xbox sales are propped up by Slashdotters saying "damn the man" and buying them to play with.

              If Xbox looks like it has great penetration (and 1 million "nerds" buying them to play with WILL be significant in the first 3 months), the games will come for the Xbox, and all us Gamecube owners will be left high-and-dry for third party apps.

              Oh well, I've been reasonably happy with every Nintendo console because of the first party apps. My favorite was the NES followed by N64 followed by SNES, but I enjoyed them all.

              The N64 was a failure, but I loved Mario 64, the first Zelda game, Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, and Hang Time. Those were enough games to keep me interested in the console.

              I am getting a Gamecube for Blitz 2002, the new Smash Brothers, the new Hang Time (forget what this one is getting named), plus the new Mario and Zelda games. A new Metroid and Star Wars games are icing on the cake.

              I haven't seen anything for Xbox that makes me want one. Halo looks nice, but I'll wait for the full featured PC version. I mean, anything good for the Xbox should be ported to the PC, and the PC will have games that the Xbox won't be good for (RPG/Strategy games that I really love). I have a HTPC for gaming in my system, so the TV isn't even an advantage for hooking up a console.

              PS2 is starting to look good with some exclusive games. I may pick it up as a second system. The Gamecube just looks more impressive to me and has the games that I want.

              Hackability? Give me a break. I want a gaming machine so my friends (the human kind, not on IRC) can come over and we can play a few games after work. You're right though, MS isn't going to be hurt by losses, not their style. When they have a high stock price, they use it to persue global domination. When they don't have a high enough price, they use cash to do so.

              Their shareholders? Management controls enough of the shares to avoid a take-over.

              Taking MS on head-on is likely a failure. Your best bet to hurt them is to create an alternative in either core or secondary markets. Buying a Gamecube helps fight MS taking over the console market. Buying Linux servers helps stop NT's spread. Keep MS contained, build alternatives.

              The only reason to target MS is if you can find a way to stop them from coercing you. I'm not concerned that they make a lot of money. I'm concerned if they can dictate the Internet on the server side because of a client-side monopoly.

              Alex
              • Nobody's going to "monopolize the gaming market" by putting out Yet Another Game Console.

                What MS really really wants to do is monopolize the set-top computer market. Think of how they could own us if they could replace our tv tuner, video recorder, game console, movie player, music player, and main home computer with one box, and just in time to get the last-mile bandwidth to finally get video-on-demand working to the home.

                --Blair
                "If this is in their 5-year plan, can you imagine their 500-year plan?"
                • Yeah, my bad, that is what I meant by the console market. Gaming is the first foot in, I would expect a follow-on product RSN (real soon now) that includes a large hard drive and TV tuner. It would be a UltimateTV/XBox combo with the DVD player. They might even bundle an MP3 player.

                  Once they have the system, all these other uses require no additional processor, etc. They can embed the equivalent of all these add-ons.

                  They need a strong gaming market to do this however. Why?

                  The processor/graphics are best subsidized by the gaming market.

                  Think about it, if there is a $300 price for the gaming, they can add the functionality for little more. They have the $300 Xbox, and several $400-$750 Xbox+ systems.

                  MS is always about bundling. The audio/video market is split into a low-end integrated solution and a high-end component solution.

                  MS will target the low-end (their specialty) with the integrated solution, and Xbox will be the first step. I would expect in 3 years Xbox2 which plays Xbox games as well as some new Xbox2 games. They'll speed up the process of console replacement, but game makers will just set whatever requirement they like. No problem that Xbox5 is out, some games will require Xbox1, Xbox2, Xbox4, etc.

                  The real trick for them, IMO, is getting the gaming market to make people pay for the processor. Once the processor/graphics is paid for, the extra features are just a matter of software and harddrive space, neither of which bumps up the product much.

                  Xbox is a console, designed to make money off games.

                  The long term goal is the monopolization of information into the home. Then they get a cut of EVERYTHING: games, music, video, time-shifting, etc.

                  As a whole-widget company, it will be increasingly difficult for single solution players to compete. Sure the high-end will never adopt the MS all-in-one solution, but Panasonic, AIWA, and everyone else that plays in the space is in trouble.

                  Expect Xbox based solutions to come in all forms... including those with a built-in amp to power 4, 5, or 6 speaker configurations. Some will include speakers, some won't. They'll create a family of solutions that share the same core and come in different bundles.

                  That's scary, if only because of their previous licensing strategy.

                  Alex

    • Re:XBox (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Sorry dude, the XBox isn't just a nVidia card and a PIII. You can't just install Windows 2000 on it and hack away. Contrary to what many believe it is more than a PC-in-a-box. Just because your PC has a GeForce3 and a 1.0 GHz CPU doesn't mean that it would even come close to the XBox in performance.. The XBox squeezes an incredible amount of performance out of the system components.

      Microsoft also implemented some satanic certification mechanism thingy that prevents retail consoles from playing compiled/developer versions of games. You would require a developer console plus the developer SDK/license (several thousand dollars, and joe shmoe can't go to microsoft and get one with a handful of cash). Then you gotta send your final product to MS for them to embed some digital certificate mojo and burn it onto custom DVDs (binaries cannot be run from the internal HD except on devkits).

      I don't think that the XBox would be any easier to hack than the GameCube. Of course, that won't keep people from trying.

      I'm not saying that the XBox rules all.. Just trying to point out that it is just like the other consoles and not a PC in a perty box. On a side note: It doesn't have as much 'general-purpose' power as the PS2, but the texturing capabilities make up for that.

      I'm not an expert... just reading slashdot, taking a break from programming on an XBox devkit ;-).

  • This is one of the best articles I have read in a long time. Short, sweet, all on one page, and containing lots of concise, useful info plus some excellent diagrams. Well done guys!

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