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Dirty Dozen- The Most Dangerous Toys of 2001 597

An anonymous reader pointed us to The Dirty Dozen which lists the most dangerous toys for children. #1 on the list is Metal Gear Solid 2 (which I finished this weekend and highly recommend) Also making the cut are Gundam and Dragonball Zaction figures (nothing scarier then Bulma on a bad hair day I guess), Super Street Fighter II and Doom. Of course the specific version of doom they classify as one of the most dangerous toys of 2001 is the Game Boy Advanced port, and I gotta agree with them on the GBA thing, those things are dangerous. Play for more then 30 minutes, and you go blind.
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Dirty Dozen- The Most Dangerous Toys of 2001

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  • I thought video games were responsible for all the world's injuries these days...
    • by Kaz Kylheku ( 1484 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @01:21PM (#2688096) Homepage
      The article is misleading; these are not dangerous toys, only toys that someone considers politically incorrect. Nothing is mentioned about any specific dangers that the toys present, only that the toys have links to violent videogames and television shows.

      Some of them shoot foam missiles; big deal! I think that a foot high robot that fires at room intruders is rather endearing. ;)

      Dangerous toys are things with parts that small children can choke on, stuff up their nose, or otherwise injure themselves with: sharp corners, fast-moving, massive projectiles, etc. Also, things containing dangerous substances, such as lead-based jewelry for children.

      There is little connection between these properties and violence. Even in the category of fast moving things that can injure: this area is probably dominated by sporting equipment. Better not be getting your kid that hockey stick!
      • It's CmdrTaco's summary. The article only claims these are "Toys to Avoid", by whatever standards the site uses. Which begs the further question of whether CmndTaco presenting this as "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters" is misleading as well.
      • One more "dangerous" aspect of toys I heard on NPR's Morning Edition today: loudness!

        Repeated exposure to sounds over 85dB can permanently damage adult hearing, and it doesn't take nearly as much exposure to harm an infant's still-developing ears. And some of the tested toys reached 105dB! Also, infants don't always have the capacity to get away from painfully loud sounds, nor do they necessarily try to move away from merely loud sounds.

        It was an interesting listen. ('Course, I had to have the radio up to '8' to make out the words. Too much of The Who at age 1, I suppose... :-)

        John

  • Sounds like a shopping list to go buy each one to me ...
  • Hilarious (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by ErikZ ( 55491 )

    "So, what should we put on the list this year?"

    "Anything from Japan"
  • Hmm.... (Score:2, Funny)

    by telstar ( 236404 )
    12 Days of Christmas ... 12 Dangerous Toys ... Coincidence? I think not.
    • Re:Hmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bribecka ( 176328 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:07AM (#2686926) Homepage
      Dumb Slashdot editors:

      1 - The MGS2 thing is about the action figures, not the game.
      2 - They don't rank the toys, so saying "#1 on the list..." doesn't mean what it's the worst.
      3 - Nowhere on the page does it say "Most Dangerous Toys"

      In fact, if you go to the front page of the web site, it states:
      The mission of The Lion & Lamb Project is to stop the marketing of violence to children. We do this by helping parents, industry and government officials recognize that violence is not child?s play ? and by galvanizing concerned adults to take action

      I don't think that is too bad of a thing. They are complaining that the MGS2 toy is marketed to children 5 and up, while the game is definitely a more mature title. Just another example of the complete morons who run ./--they post stuff that they have no CLUE about.

      As another example, there was an article a week back or so about a security guy from MS being hired by the White House. Of course, the ./ pile on began, completely tearing this guy apart. Turns out the guy is in charge of basically the physical plant security there--he has nothing to do with software. I email Chris Dibona about this, he even replied that he knew that, but decided to leave it out of the article.

      Okay, I'm done ranting.
      • Re:Hmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by plover ( 150551 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @12:18PM (#2687707) Homepage Journal
        I think this site is right on the money. Sure, it's good for a laugh for the more mature types who read slashdot (yes, that was a troll, sorry I couldn't resist!) but it's simply a group of like-minded parents who want to shield their kids from violent toys. If you're of a mind, join them. If not, LET THEM BE. It doesn't affect nor concern you.

        And whether or not you think shielding kids from violence is right or wrong, it's NOT your decision. It's the parent's decision. This web site simply lets parents share their finds. If I was Jane Clueless I might not know that Shadow Cat wasn't just another K'nex toy, but I might want to know that it fires missiles.

        Something else for you breeding types to consider is that kids do take notice of their parents approvals and disapprovals. If Mom & Dad consistently say "No" to violent games, Junior does pick up on that. He may rebel and go seek those violent games out on his own, but that's part of growing up too. Deep down, though, he does learn that mom considers violence wrong. What he chooses to do with that knowledge makes him his own individual.

        All in all, it's just another "Move along, nothing to see here" kind of story, (other than a kind of cool shopping list.)

        John

        • Re:Hmm.... (Score:4, Informative)

          by freeweed ( 309734 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @12:48PM (#2687891)
          And whether or not you think shielding kids from violence is right or wrong, it's NOT your decision. It's the parent's decision.

          Nail on the head. However, what scares me about people like this is their inherent need to impress their views on others. Maybe some are just looking out for their own kids (of course if this is the case why can't they just go to the store and look at the toy themselves..), but far too many of them want to rant to the world about how this or that toy is BAD. Very rarely is this just to share opinions, most often it's a nice subtle way of saying "this is how YOU should raise YOUR children".

          Then again, I may be biased. I grew up with oodles of everything that was claimed to be violent/pornographic/bad for kids, and I'm a hell of a lot more stable and non-violent that a lot of people out there. *shrug* Guess my parents took the time to explain reality vs. fantasy to me.

  • Not the GAME.... (Score:2, Informative)

    by swollkin ( 78626 )
    Looks like the dangerous toy is an action figure inspired by the game and not the game itself....
    • yeah, but the list also includes 4 video games:
      • Super Street Fighter II: Turbo Revival
      • Final Fight One
      • Doom
      • Ecks vs. Sever

      interestingly, all for the GameBoy Advance.

  • I agree. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by toofast ( 20646 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:42AM (#2686770)
    I spent a lot of my time playing FPS style games, but I was 17 years old + (today I'm 29) and I was mature enough to realize that it's a game, and that there's nothing fun about violence except when it's in a movie or in a video game.

    I would NOT let a 10 year-old play Quake 3 or Half-Life. Just like I wouldn't let the same kid watch a porno movie or a gory horror film.

    I feel it desensitizes a child too much. So I have to say I agree.
    • Re:I agree. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bpowell423 ( 208542 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:56AM (#2686865)
      I agree with you. This isn't about banning these toys or anything, it's just a list of toys that parents may want to be wary of.

      IMO, watching/playing violence/porno/horror has a desensitizing effect on anybody, regardless of their age. As you get older, sure you can compartmentalize things better than a six-year-old, but for anyone to think that they can watch/participate-in violence or porno and be completely uneffected by it is foolhardy.
      • Re:I agree. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jgerman ( 106518 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:27AM (#2687030)
        And anyone who avoids them entirely ends up being unable to participate in life because of their sheltered upbringing. The argument cuts both ways, desensitized, or overly sensistive are just two sides of the same coin. There is a happy medium.
      • Re:I agree. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Shelled ( 81123 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:47AM (#2687126)
        Somewhere I have a picture of (I believe) the police chief of Chicago back in the fifties watching as his mayor takes a sledge hammer to a pinball machine. For Slashdot readers too young to have seen one, a pinball machine was a mechanical device involving a steel ball, some solenoid actuated bumpers, a couple of electro-mechanical paddles and lots of gaudy paint. It was a photo op for the city's campaign to rid themselves of this corrupting and desensitizing influence. Since the city had just finished collecting and destroying ten large numbers of machines taken from independant operators, they most certainly felt just as strongly about pinball's influence as you do about violence/porn/horror.
        • by isdnip ( 49656 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @11:29AM (#2687386)
          Pinball was a different situation. The City of Chicago banned it inside the city limits, largely, I think, because it was used for illegal gambling. Which was ironic because Chicago was the place where most of the machines were made (Chicago Coin, Chicago Dynamic Industries, etc.). Or perhaps that was why it had once gotten out of hand.

          I grew up in the New York area where pinball was everywhere and considered quite harmless. Sure, if you "won" (mostly on skill) you got a free game for your quarter. But that wasn't really gambling. Indeed a good resort hotel was one where the kids' area (in those days, the early sixties, many resort hotels had supervised summer camp-like kids' programs; as a parent today, I miss them) had a *free* pinball machine (often just the door taken off the coin box). I played them the way kids today play video games. And the video game largely killed pinball by displacing it from arcades, though there are some diehard pinball fans and some machines still around.

          The Lionandlamb listing is, as others have noted, a list of violent, not "dangerous", games and toys. A different list comes out every year of dangerous toys, things that can actually hurt your body. Check out http://www.toysafety.org . Most of these look innocent but have parts that come loose in the wrong way, or have some other non-obvious hazard.
      • anyone to think that they can watch/participate-in violence or porno and be completely uneffected by it is foolhardy.


        Yep. I agree. If I watch porno and I'm not visibly affected, something is horribly, horribly wrong.
    • I feel it desensitizes a child too much. So I have to say I agree.

      I have to disagree. I and many friends of mine have played these games since our early teens (I'm 19 now for reference), and we still avoid sites like rotten.com because of their disgusting nature.

      • Re:I disagree (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Moonshadow ( 84117 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @11:17AM (#2687301)
        Same here. I've been playing "violent" games since I was 13 or so, and I was always up for some target practice with the BB gun. I loved making swords out of sticks, or staffs out of bamboo, then having fights with the neighbor kids. And yet, somehow, I'm one of the most non-violent people you'll come across, even though I'm 18, 6'10" and 230 lbs., a wrestler, and could easily hold my own in a fight. I did all that and still managed to make it through high school without killing anybody. Heck, I've never even been in a fight.

        It's not the games. It's not the action figures. It's not the toys with "super-duper killer-missle launching action". It's parents who don't know how to teach a kid what's right, what's wrong, and how to tell the difference. Reminds me of a recent Penny Arcade strip [penny-arcade.com]

    • Re:I agree. (Score:3, Flamebait)

      by Accipiter ( 8228 )
      End of Story [penny-arcade.com]

      Actually, the first panel pretty much says it all.
  • MGS2 (Score:4, Informative)

    by Redline242 ( 22468 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:42AM (#2686772)
    It should be noted that #1 on the list is the MGS2 Solid Snake ACTION FIGURE, not the game.
    • Re:MGS2 (Score:2, Funny)

      I played with Transformer toys with big guns etc. and I turned out fine (except, of course, for the whole reading /. thing and being a geek...)
  • Correction.. (Score:2, Informative)

    by jerkychew ( 80913 )
    For the record, they listed the MGS-based action figures as dangerous, not the game itself. This was due to the fact that the figures were recommended for ages 5 and up.
  • Dangerous? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Gregoyle ( 122532 )
    The site looks like it's more about a "dangerous influence" than anything else. These toys aren't dangerous because of small parts, ineffective hydraulic seals, reactor leaks, or rambunctious atom-smashers. They're "dangerous" because they promote violence in kids.

    I have yet to see any well-controlled study linking violent toys/games with violent behavious later in life. This site is just another attempt to impose one person's lifestyle on another's children.
    • "The site looks like it's more about a "dangerous influence" than anything else."

      I'd say it's pretty explicit about that. The first sentence from the front page [lionlamb.org] reads:

      "The mission of The Lion & Lamb Project is to stop the marketing of violence to children."

    • Seems like information is used as the tool these days to get something done. The toys these days may often be games; however, they do suggest the operator to complete the reality. Its no longer physical means to accomplish something, but thoughts or suggestions.

      Take our government for instance. When they want something done, they rarely use force anymore, but use legal means and the written word to invoke change. This causes other people to act and follow their vision.
    • there seems to be a consistent theme of, "The game is rated M, but this is marketed for five year olds, and encourages them to go to the web site."


      IOW, "we're as serious about not marketing to kids as RJ Reynolds!"


      hawk, who wishes he could include a :) on that one . . .

    • Re:Dangerous? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mrdogi ( 82975 )
      These toys aren't dangerous because of small parts... They're "dangerous" because they promote violence in kids.

      Pooking at the site's main page, that is exactly what they are talking about. sorry, /.er reading MORE than the article here.


      I have yet to see any well-controlled study linking violent toys/games with violent behavious later in life.


      Personally, I don't really need a study to tell me shat I can see from my own thoughts. When Doom first came out, I could get really drawn into the game, and I could easily see how somebody with less maturity than myself could get really freaked out by what went on in the game. I was about 25 at the time, and I would NEVER let a child of mine anywhere near similar games. True, the article is about action figures (mostly), but I think violence can still affect kids.

      • Wow, I guess we should just ask you your opinions on anything we want to know. You'll put sociologists out of work across the word, because your opinion is always right and backed up by such a vast amount of experience, and knowledge.


        You don't want your kid to play those things, fine, my kids will, and they also won't be little crybabies because they were completely sheltered. I'm not saying that I'll let my kids do everything and anything they want, but they won't be locked away in a room with only dolls to play with.

  • This is ridiculous. Next it'll be hungry hungry hippos because it promotes bad table manners.
  • They have a point (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Video games are rated 'M' for mature, yet their toys are rated for ages 5 and up. Brand association, right?

    For parents that want to "protect" their children from violent games, I think the list serves a valuable purpose.
  • by spellcheckur ( 253528 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:42AM (#2686783)
    What happened to scissors, matches and lawn darts?

    Lawn darts... they were my favorite. We used to make the neighbor kid catch 'em.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    90% of the items they listed are not dangerous themselves. What is dangerous is anyone with a warped mindset you would think, for example, that you can go around killing people with BFG's from Doom or go "karate-krazy" and start fighting people because you have some Dragonball toy.

    In other words, these toys are not dangerous. As the site specifically states in each rationalization of the purpose for being listed on their site, it is the *children* that are dangerous.

    What's next? DVD copies of Farenheit 451, because it incites arson?

    • In other words, these toys are not dangerous. As the site specifically states in each rationalization of the purpose for being listed on their site, it is the *children* that are dangerous.


      Which is a fallacy. It is *parents* who should be held responsible for their own children's upbringing, not toy manufacturers, or the government. If you think a toy is inappropriate for your child or goes against your value system, there is a simple solution -- don't buy it! If your kid turns out to be a maladjusted sociopath, don't blame TV, videogames, and toys -- blame yourself for using those things as electronic babysitters instead of spending quality time with your child and teaching them how to be responsible, upstanding citizens.


      Geeze, sometimes I think we should require licensing before we allow people to procreate.

  • by SuperDuG ( 134989 ) <[be] [at] [eclec.tk]> on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:42AM (#2686785) Homepage Journal
    Geeze ... parents who need something to whine about? Really, we all grew up on Quake and Doom and we're all normal ...

    ... the voices in my head that tell me to frag agree as well ...

    ... yeah ... normal

    Anyways I still remember an SNL skit of a toy manufacturer with "Bag `O Broken Glass" and "Play Doctor Medical Waste Goop" .... now those were some toys, but video games that promote violence. How about you get mom and dad to quit yellin at each other through the stress of X-Mas? Erm wait, it's toys that make people corrupt not unbearable living enviroments.

    But yeah ... I will be giving out rocks for this years holliday season ... maybe I'll put a slashdot on um so I can sell ... my pet slashdot rock.(C) :-)

    • From my memory:

      "Bag of broken glass? Isn't that dangerous?"

      "Well yea, but we're putting a sign on it: Hey Kid, it's a bag of broken glass. Be careful."

      "Okay, what else do you have?"

      "Well, we've got Johnny Switchblade (click)..."
    • I always throught Happy Fun Ball [happyfunball.com] was the most dangerous SNL toy....

      I sure wish they made those, though a few of the random toys out of the grocery store quarter machines probably are as "safe" as HFB...
  • And? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SimplyCosmic ( 15296 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:44AM (#2686793) Homepage
    Seriously, this is just another Frontpage 4.0 built site from a mother who saw too much violence in her kid's toys [lionlamb.org] and decided to put together a small site with her opinions on what toys are bad influences on young minds.

    Wasn't that the beauty of the Internet? To give each and every person a place to express their opinions and ideas, regardless of just how silly it is?
    • "Kill him! Kill him! Kill him!" I was watching my son play with a friend's hand-held video game -- a game both boys had earnestly assured me was not violent. The outburst occurred because my six-year-old was not as adept as his friend in manipulating the game: He was not killing fast enough.

      Way to go kid! I hope her kid is one of the American pilots strafing Al Queada targets right now. Looks like that hand-held video game might have been good training for him. :)
  • Looks like a bunch of "reactionary bullshit" by "parents" who don't want to "raise their kids" and instead want to "rip" the "fun" out of the "world."

    Also, I "think" they are the "founders" of the "quotation mark" fan club.

  • Cool! Zoids are back! While not exactly like the zoids of yesteryear, they look cool nonetheless. I like how they provide links to all these fun toys for easy holiday shopping.
  • and why does their opinion matter? anyone can put up a webpage and say "this sucks" or "this is bad for you" that doesnt make it newsworthy...

    as soon as the CDC makes a stand THEN it becomes news.
  • Meanwhile... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wrinkledshirt ( 228541 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:45AM (#2686802) Homepage
    If we're worried about toys that promote violence, I wonder why there's no mention of those Topps trading cards [topps.com] featuring all the big names in Operation Enduring Freedom and all the different weaponry at work, etc.

    I guess Doom's mistake was that it promotes the killing of aliens instead of Afghans.
  • Uh... "Shadow Cat" listed as one of the most dangerous toys?

    It's only a 45-ton 'mech, for God's sake!

    Every now and then my Timber Wolf steps on those things and I won't even notice anything special happens!

  • by briggsb ( 217215 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:46AM (#2686811)
    Here are some [bbspot.com] other dangerous toys that didn't make that list.
  • Is to block this site from their parents using parental control...
  • DBZ dangerous? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ruszka ( 456169 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:47AM (#2686816)
    Heh.. People are amusing these days.. My son loves DBZ, I love it, my mom loves it. It's not as realistically violent as Looney Tunes. I mean, so Goku shoots out some sort of flaming orb. Tom and Jerry chase each other with knives (something children have seen with their own eyes) yet Tom and Jerry is acceptable because it's a "classic" ? It's bullshit. Years ago people played with GI Joes. DBZ action figures are harmless. If my son wants to pretend to shoot some spirit bomb on me, that's fine. It's better than him chasing me down with a steak knife.
    • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:00AM (#2686888) Homepage Journal
      I think the real danger is your kid standing around screaming at the top of his lungs for half an hour trying to power up, with perhaps a break every few minutes to ask "Where's Goku?".
    • DBZ action figures are harmless. If my son wants to pretend to shoot some spirit bomb on me, that's fine.

      Personally, I'm glad when my son is saying "kame... hame... HA!!!!!!!" instead of "bang".

      Not that I'd prevent him from the finger guns, but I think fantasizing about fantasy violence is a step up from fantasizing about real violence.
  • I think that CmdrTaco needs to redo the headline. This organization is trying to get rid of violent toys. Dangerous is definitely a misnomer here.

    I would agree that many of theses toys (and games) should not be marketed to small children yet many of them sell toys to kids under the recommended age for the games. A bit of sleaze but nothing that unusual for marketdroids.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    That had this label on it:

    http://www.engrish.com/images/recentdiscoveries/DA NGER.jpg [engrish.com]
  • Well, gameboy advance version is NOT rated M. it is rated Teen [activision.com] [warning warning shockwave intro]

    Unless you find green blood [gamespot.com] realistic.

    But how are they going to solve the halflife port. That had a lot of blood in it!
  • gotta love... (Score:2, Interesting)

    gotta love parents who can't watch their kids and rely on websites, rating systems, and the government to choose what their children do.

    ah, modern family is so loving and caring with modern technology.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • How long will it take for Americans to realize that toys, movies, TV, etc don't make people turn into bad people? Also, when will we understand that when a murderer blames his actions on his childhood, he's FULL OF SHIT? Listen, everyone has an inert understanding of right and wrong, no matter what you hear. Doom doesn't make kids want to go out and kill each other, craziness does. Some people are just insane, that's all there is to it. Other people don't understand consequences because their parents and the rest of society haven't taught them that when you do something wrong, you get punished for it, no matter what your excuses are.

    As a personal reference, I have been on trips to Europe lately and the one thing I noticed is their total lack of sensitivity towards children in media. What I mean is that all over their TV programs there is sex, drugs, violence, bad language, etc. Rather than hearing a report about Taliban deaths, they show you the body parts strewn all over the place from the bombs. Europe has their problems, of course, but the way they handle these types of things is much better than the way we do. Everything is out in the open and the result is the kids understand real life instead of sheltered life, and I think it results in more mature people. That's just my own opinion though, flame if you want.
    • (And a european parent at that)

      I have no problem with the games and their content or whatever. I also hate extreme Christian tosspots like this guy [capalert.com]. The aim of "reducing the marketing of violence to children" is, however, a laudable one. These companies put recommended ages on and then deliberatly market toys at children below that age group. My nine year old stepdaughter, like all of her classmates, has been into the Pokemon craze. The way I watch it, I don't see that there's much difference between the basic premise and dogfighting - setting pets on each other to see who wins. Admittedly, my nine year old stepdaughter does have Aspergers syndrome [udel.edu] and therefore has a lot of trouble distinguishing what's serious and what's not.

      I don't believe that banning or censoring things is the answer. I do believe that awareness and parental responsibility will help. My two year old son will soon be old enough to be influenced by what he sees and hears (he picked up the word "bugger" quickly enough). I wouldn't like him to grow up thinking that it's normal to shoot/stab/punch people.

      I don't want censorship (yeah - I surf for porn now and again) what I want is responsibility. I don't want people to blame the TV or the Internet for their kids seeing graphic anal fisting (much less Taco snotting), I want them to take responsibility and educate their kids. You can't take responsibility without knowledge.

      The people who run this site may be going about things the wrong way, but someone needs to highlight that there is a problem.

      PS Yes, our TV news does show what actually happens when people are shot/bombed/gassed and it aint pretty. And we still don't want guns - coincidence?
  • If only it were socially acceptible for parents to actually take some time out of their busy schedules of driving their SUVs around and watching their own television to actually, I dunno, parent their kids sometime.

    Then these lists would be ignorable, because parents could see for themselves which shows their kids are watching on TV, how much homework their kids are doing, and what kinds of games are ok and not-ok for the kids to play.

    Supervision of children used to be a pretty big deal, and you could get charged with neglect for not doing it, so how are all these Soccer Moms getting away with completely ignoring the content they buy for their kids until its too late?

    Should responsible people really take all this crap from a demographic known for recording South Park (which is on at midnight in most areas) so their 12 year old can watch it?

  • I thought Christains loved war (ever read the Bible?), its just sex they couldn't stand.
  • by ch-chuck ( 9622 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:53AM (#2686853) Homepage
    Kids who grew up on a farm knew all about sticking pigs and chopping off chicken heads for dinner, as well as procreation. They shouldn't so be isolated from 'reality', it just creates people who are so darned squimish they donate money to PETA and worry about rabbits getting a rash from testing cosmetics on them.
    • While I agree on isolating children from reality being a bad thing, testing cosmetics on animals is not something that should be taken lightly. On farms, animals are given a fairly good life and then killed almost instantly by having their head decapitated in a single, strong blow before their corpses are slaughtered. Farmers intentionally make sure that the animal feels no pain and does not suffer. Cosmetic testing burns, maims, and tortures an animal before it kills it. Not only are animals' flesh burned by ridiculous amounts of acidic chemicals, but the people in the testing facilities will also slash an animal repeatedly and pour similar chemicals in the wound, as well as drowning other animals in the chemicals and reusing animals that survive tests over and over until they die. In fact, these people pretty much torture the animals in every way you can think of. Pouring acidic chemicals in their eyes, in their wounds, on furred skin, on exposed skin, on skin that's been worn with razors... it's just ridiculous, especially when many other facilities just do the same tastes on cell cultures that have no ability to process pain.

      PETA sucks... but they have a point here.

  • "Rights"? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @09:55AM (#2686861) Journal
    Sorry, which of "My Rights Online" is in jeopardy here? My right to live in a world where no one ever expresses a view different from my own? This group is opposed to violent toys and is distributing information to interested readers about which toys they may want to avoid. One might have thought that sort of sharing of information would be a good thing.

    It's the same bullshit we're more accustomed to reading from Jamie and Michael -- whenever a government or organization takes action, they piously declare that aprents should take responsibility for their children. And then it's a fundamental assault on freedom when parents decide to parent instead of following the prescribed "Your Rights Online" way of life.

    I've managed to learn not to flame most of the hypocrisy here ("A new patch for a Windows bug -- the closed source development model is so buggy! A new Linux kernel patch -- look how quickly the open-source model finds and fixes bugs!") but I find this one so offensive it pushes my buttons every time.

    • It's the same bullshit we're more accustomed to reading from Jamie and Michael -- whenever a government or organization takes action, they piously declare that aprents should take responsibility for their children.

      Agreed. It's clear that Taco didn't even read the article that is linked--he thinks they are against MGS2 the video game. Oh well, so goes /.
    • Sorry, which of "My Rights Online" is in jeopardy here?

      Who said this represented jeopardy? If it were an EXPRESSION of My Rights Online, that'd qualify too, wouldn't it?
    • That's where you are wrong. Kids should have uncontrolled freedom to do whatever they want. And if they don't get enough allowance to do it then the parents are taking away their rights. How could anyone actually think of taking away a child's right to surf porn anywhere they want including the library and stay out as late as he/she wants? This is a democracy we live in.
    • I agree with what you are saying, but I think you are misunderstanding this story completely.

      "Your Right Online" is a very broad category, and while this story doesn't exactly fit, as noone's rights are being violated, it's the closest as this story is sort of about voluntary self censorship by parents.

      It's not like CT is saying, "Look, your right are being violated!", it's more like he's saying, "Look at this silly stupid parent group! Haha!..."

      And I have to agree with CT, I've played with all these kinds of toys and games and I've turned out just fine...

      well, except for the killing spree I went on the other day, but I had my reasons... j/k

      Lighten up...

    • ... Hillary Rosen declared the iPod the year's most dangerous toy.
  • they just give me a reson to buy the item.

    seriously, it sounds like half the resons for including them in the list are taken right from the frigen box!!

    I guess they feel that the "resoning" behind the resons listed are self-evident. I am not so sure.
  • What about the ever popular "bag of glass" or how about the loved "self tatooting kit?"
  • by er0ck ( 267290 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:00AM (#2686887)
    Here's a page with links to previous years' Dirty Dozen lists. [lionlamb.org]

    I am always surprised when they list Nerf [nerfcenter.com] toys as dangerous and encouraging kids to be violent. It's Nerf for goodness sakes!

    Not only that, but when they do single out a Nerf toy, it's usually one of the pathetically underpowered ones. Case in point: Their 1988-89 Dirty Dozen List [lionlamb.org] shows the Nerf Pulsator [nerfcenter.com] as the top offender. My favorite gripe of theirs: "box refers to the darts as "ammo."".
  • by mystery_bowler ( 472698 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:04AM (#2686900) Homepage
    But, as a parent, I think I can tell which toys are too explicitly (or even suggestively) violent for my child. And even if I didn't know anything about software and video games, they now have a ratings system that tells me which age group for which they are most appropriate.

    I think the thing that disturbs me most about this is not that some people would compile a list like this - people are free to state their opinions about toys and games all they want - it's that parents would rely so heavily on these types of lists to make their decisions for them. To me, it's just further evidence of a parent's wish to simply not be bothered or involved.

    If you really want to have some influence on what your kids are getting into, then for the love of all things good, GET INVOLVED. Use some common sense! Do you want your kids considering guns as toys? No? Then don't buy them gun-wielding toys. It's a pretty simple concept. Don't want your kids to get the idea in their head that head-to-head combat is Good Thing[tm]? Then don't buy them fighting games. It's all very, very common-sensical. There are lots of toys from which to choose. Pick the ones with which you feel most comfortable.

  • When I grew up, every Christmas I would sit on Santa's lap and ask for a Daisy pump action pellet gun, Swiss Army Knife, Bow & Arrow set, Metal Skateboard and GI Joe with Jeep and Rocket Launcher. None of this wimpy action figures from Japanese Anime or Video Games. GBA? Heck the only video game we had was Pong and you had to sneak into a bar to play it.

    This is just prime example of how liberal, touchy feely, public interest groups are ruining America. I am just waiting for them to suggest frilly pink panties as a perfect gift for little boys. No wonder Middle Eastern terrorists thought we were soft and an easy target. The front cover of the New York Post [newyorkpost.com] today showed how Palestinian children play -- with fake bombs strapped around their chests while practicing military assaults.

    For God's sake, lets let boys be boys for Christmas. Don't make Santa deliver wimpy toys. Jesus was not born and died on a cross for that.

  • How could they miss GTA3? They'd probably have coronaries if they ever saw that game...now I can just see it...oh that's a cool looking driving game..neat! Um did you just hit that person? Um did you just hit that cop and old lady? Why are you using the side view of the car? ARE YOU SHOOTING THOSE PEOPLE???? Hey your guy got out of the car...hey you just hit that old lady with a baseball bat...HEY why are you clubbing her corpse...is that blood? A molotov what? Those people are all on fire...there's flaming cars everywhere...STOP IT...he's already dead!

    hehe...naturally it goes on for a solid hour >:) But seriously folks, these people don't necessarily represent all Christians!
  • Wow, I remember back in the day when the toys rated to be dangerous ACTUALLY POSED SOME PHYSICAL THREAT. Little plastic guns to choke on, rivets that pop out and can hit you in the eye, Power Wheels batteries that explode, failed brakes on bicycles... What ever happened to Dan Akroyd and the Bag of Broken Glass, Bag of Rusty Nails, and Bag of Sulfuric acid? REAL dangerous toys.

    Now we're afraid of words, pictures, and plastic icons. Oh, I get it! It's a biblical thing!
    • Actually, It's less biblical and more scapegoat. People these days don't really care about religion, but they use these moralistic arguments to take the blame away from their responsibility to raise mature, well rounded children. People today get Married because that's what you're supposed to do when you go to college, find a husband/wife. They find the husband/wife that will make them the envy of their friends, not the one that will make them happy for the rest of their lives. Then, either to "keep up with the Joneses" or to have a new, exciting "toy," they decide to have a baby. The problem is they have no clue how to actually bring up a functioning person and so they rely on TV, babysitters, movies, toys, etc. Then when they realize that they have created a spoiled brat with no respect for anything, they want to find something to blame, and the result is things like this list.
  • Very misleading... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chill ( 34294 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:08AM (#2686929) Journal
    The site says these are "Toys to Avoid" and says nothing about "Dangerous Toys". The PRIVATE ORGANIZTION'S agenda is to stop promoting violence to children, and this list is in line with that aim.

    I didn't see "Most Dangerous Toys" anywhere.

    This story sucks.
  • Cool? Definitely! This dangerous toy [mgae.com] is a hella lot cooler than a lot of the toys I had as a kid. Voice control over a walkie talkie? Man, I might have to put this on the Xmas list. I'll teach that darn cat not to jump on the counter yet!
  • by shepd ( 155729 )
    How... LAME.

    Lets compare The Bible (a resource handed out to many, many children even below the age described as too young to play the games on that page) to these "Dangerous Toys":

    "Super Street Fighter II: Turbo Revival"
    - "My fists will have your blood on them"

    Pontious Pilate: The Bible
    - Washes his hands of blood

    Doom
    "Annihilate hell spawned demons with plasma rifles, chain guns and rocket launchers. Team up with a friend ... for the ultimate deathmatch."

    Revelations: The Bible
    - Just read any part of it

    Rock Em Sock Em Robots: Head Case Robot
    - This neck wrenching head collector says winning is as easy as taking candy from a baby's intestines

    King Solomon: The Bible
    - Commanded that a baby be cut in half

    Now, if you want to ban those games, you'd better ban the bible from being read by those under 18.
  • by night_flyer ( 453866 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:18AM (#2686987) Homepage
    for things that "may" or "may not" be bad for a child's psychi, maybe these parents should spend that time WITH their children...
  • Their front page [lionlamb.org] front page says:

    • The mission of The Lion & Lamb Project is to stop the marketing of violence to children.
    So of course this going to release a report like this.

    Complaining about them is like complaining that religious fundamentalists are nuts... 1) their statements and our reactions are obvious and predictable, and 2) they usually don't have much influence on others anway.

  • I see too many people here actually agreeing with this crap. Didn't any of you play Doom with your friends when you were in the fourth grade or watch Terminator 2 several times when you were seven? Or maybe even watch popular shows Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Ghost Busters, Starblazers, or whatever else was big when you were a kid? Those shows are exact equivalents to shows like Dragon Ball Z and Mobile Suit Gundam today, and Metal Gear Solid 2 is an even tamer equivalent to Doom.

    A few people here have said that they'd never let a ten-year-old play Doom or Metal Gear Solid 2, let them watch gory movies, or let them play with some of these toys. Try to think of your own life and get some perspective. Was your TV viewing limited to Jesus Christ's Bible Adventures when you were ten? Do you owe your current well-being to how sheltered you were as a kid, having not seen a gun fight on TV until you were old enough to drive, and having not even HEARD of sex until you were no longer jailbait?

    Personally, I don't think you do. I think you played Wolfenstein 3D and Doom when you were younger. I think you watched a few horror movies in your pre-pubescent days. I think you even hid a Playboy under your bed, or at the very least made regular visits to Playboy.com when you were twelve. And I think you certainly watched a popular kiddie show or two as a kid, and bought lots of action figures for it, too. You had G.I. Joe toys, or a Leonardo figure, or a ghost from Ghost Busters, or a big toy of the Yamato... you had those, or something very much like them. And you're fine, aren't you? In fact, you know an entire generation of people that's fine, multiple generations in fact.

    Try to think of how YOU were raised and what YOUR life was like before you tell people that it's wrong for a ten year old to play Quake 3 or watch a violent movie. Stop listening to the endless stream of propaganda and actually take some time to think for yourself. These people think that they can successfully force their illogical bullshit on others if they yell loud enough and keep repeating it endlessly. Don't let them do that. Think for yourself. Maybe you'll still agree with them after you take that time to think... but I don't think you will. Because I think your life is a text book case of how to warp a child and "turn their heart dark", but somehow, by the same improbable miracle that 99% of all other people experience, you turned out fine... because this "violence desensitizes children" thing is bullshit.

    And there's no way in Hell you didn't watch Looney Toons when you were a kid. There just isn't.

  • by gonerill ( 139660 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @10:52AM (#2687157) Homepage
    I think the hair-trigger threshold that most people around here have for unleashing verbal abuse at innocuous sites whose opinion differs from theirs constitutes its own dataset about the desensitizing effects of violence on children.

    Jeez --- a private site, simply listing toys that concerned parents might want to avoid this Christmas. That's all, folks!

    Even worse is the crap quality of the negative responses. "If your children are jerks it's your fault, not the toys", "You should spend more time parenting and less time on this website." Unbelievable. Has it occurred to any of you that taking the time to choose toys for your children --- instead of buying whatever crap is marketed to them --- is actually evidence of being a good parent?

    But, of course, /. hypocrites know no reason. It's techno-libertarian free internet for me, but get your site off my internet for thou. I'm sure if the story had been "Open Source Community Develops User-Driven Database of Toy Ratings" you'd all be creaming yourselves about the power of Open Source.

    • Nice flamebait.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by freeweed ( 309734 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @01:14PM (#2688048)
      .. but as you seem sincere, I'll respond.

      I think the hair-trigger threshold that most people around here have for unleashing verbal abuse at innocuous sites whose opinion differs from theirs constitutes its own dataset about the desensitizing effects of violence on children.
      Jeez --- a private site, simply listing toys that concerned parents might want to avoid this Christmas. That's all, folks!


      Well that's not all though. This same organization is lobbying the US gov't to actually STOP production of these toys. No one on slashdot is advocating shutting this site down. NOW who's afraid of a different opinion?

      Has it occurred to any of you that taking the time to choose toys for your children --- instead of buying whatever crap is marketed to them --- is actually evidence of being a good parent?

      Yes. And to be honest, I'd much prefer a parent actually LOOK at a toy and think FOR THEMSELVES about the good/bad qualities of it. Much better than simply reading a list of someone else's opinions and taking action on that, when you don't even know if this someone else shares any of the same values that you do.

      Maybe you miss the point of why so many people find this scary. It's not a differing opinion that bothers me - it's a differing opinion forced down my throat that does. And of course using a website as an excuse to be a bad parent.

  • by mttlg ( 174815 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @11:12AM (#2687272) Homepage Journal
    Wow, the most dangerous toys out there are a bunch of stupid action figures and video games. Where exactly is the extreme danger here? It doesn't look like they have anything with sharp edges or small parts that could be choking hazards, or even a good old electrocution hazard. One of them shoots 10 "missiles" that combined probably don't do as much damage as a rubber band fired from across a room. If these are the most dangerous toys around, then it must suck to be a kid these days.

    Now before you start complaining "But they didn't mean that kind of dangerous," I know what they meant. They meant "violent and potentially psychologically damaging to innocent young children." Now, if this is what parents are most concerned about these days, then either the world is a whole lot safer now than it was a few years ago, or those parents are unfit to raise a child. I'm sure there are many other toys out there that could physically hurt a child (if there aren't, I propose creating a small metal baseball bat and calling it the "Big Brother Basher"), and those are the toys I would consider "dangerous." If you don't want your kids exposed to violence and need someone to tell you that stuff with guns is violent, perhaps it isn't the toys that present the most danger to your kids.

    Moving on to the humor side:

    A series of plastic action figures based on the violent anime cartoon program Dragon Ball Z.

    There's violence in that show? I admit that I don't follow the show, but I've flipped through it several times (some in an attempt to understand the appeal), and the characters are always either standing around talking, flying, staring at each other, or all blurred in scenes that resemble bizarre mating rituals. If anything, I'd be worried about kids being exposed to too much stupidity from that show, not to mention the promotional material for the toys: "front kicking action!" "side kicking action!" "double punch action!" Was this stuff written by people who make lesbian porn action figures or something?

  • Stupid Dead Kids (Score:3, Informative)

    by CaseyB ( 1105 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @11:40AM (#2687459)
    Once again, The Onion [theonion.com] provides the perfect article for the story.

    I really miss my old Micronaut toys. The rocket launchers on those things could fire small bits of plastic at near relativistic speeds.

  • by iCEBaLM ( 34905 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @12:21PM (#2687730)
    For finding me these [knex.com] sweet K'NEX battlemech sets. Screw christmas, I'm getting the Timberwolf (the *right* name for a madcat :) ) for myself.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • It's funny.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nettdata ( 88196 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2001 @03:41PM (#2688954) Homepage
    I can't imagine too many people initially going to the site, or taking the content of the site too seriously; "oh, look honey, there's that toy that that web site said was bad, so we better not buy it for little Johnny"... yeah right.

    Then enter Slashdot. :)

    Now the webmaster is looking at the site stats of hundreds of thousands of hits and is thinking "man! what a difference I'm making!". Little does he/she know that the general reaction is "geesh... what next!". Spurred on by this "success", they're already planning the next project.

    For that matter, they could probably take their web logs showing the hits they are getting to some politician *spit* and show what a "great job" they're doing protecting the children of society (after all, lots of hits means it's working, right?), and get some federal funding to carry on the torch.

    Oh joy.

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