Sony vs Modchips 423
Cryptnotic writes "Sony
has decided to instigate legal action against companies distributing two new Playstation 2 modchips, the Messiah and the NEO4. Sony has previously ignored modchip makers who made products which were only capable of playing CD-R copies of games. These new modchips, however, have legitimate uses, such as playing original import games or out-of-region DVD's. Aparrantly this is what has angered Sony." If I could read Kanji I'd probably care a bit more ;)
Screw you Sony! (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, I hope this gets people angry, because it's really such an obvious ploy to line Sony's pockets with our money. I really don't see how these companies can keep this sort of thing up without any sort of outcry from those of us that own the products that we can't do what we want to with.
I mean, geez, if Sony doesn't want me hacking up it's boxes, why did it _sell_ them to me? Come on Sony, ligthen up!
Re:Screw you Sony?!? (Score:2, Insightful)
Now that's rich. "I mean, geez, if Pac Bell doesn't want me phone phreaking, why did they _sell_ me a phone line? Come on, Pac Bell, lighten up!".
FYI: Sony doesn't make money off the boxes, they make money off sold games.
Modchip = #1 way to enable piracy for the masses = immense loss of profit for Sony AND game developers AND publishers. And since I'm in that group, I can say that Sony, by trying to get rid of modchips, promotes security for my very job.
Re:Screw you Sony?!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't believe me? Stop paying the bill. You don't own it.
Re:Screw you Sony?!? (Score:2)
They don't sell you a phone line, they put a wire to your house so that they can sell you service. You can actualy buy a phone line of your own (a direct hardwired connection from one place to another) and do whatever you want with it. It generaly costs a lot of money.
If sony didn't want people dicking with their hardware, they could have leased it.
Re:Screw you Sony! (Score:5, Funny)
Furthermore, if they were smart, they'd put in a cd key system where keys are assigned at the store based on your PS2's serial number. The store would ask Sony for the dynamically generated keys. Too bad it's not common to hook PS2's up to the internet; if it was the PS2 could warn Sony about invalid keys or suspicious changes in the hardware, and they could forward you to the police.
They could also put in physical barriers, such as a self destruct mechanism that is triggered whenever the case is opened.
Legitimate Uses? (Score:2, Interesting)
I find regional coding abhorrent myself, but in terms of law, providing the capability of running software that isn't licensed for a release in a given region is one of the specific things the DMCA was meant to stop. It was practically written by Sony (and its cohorts).
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:4, Funny)
Hell, even if they are subject to licenses, which is certainly fairly doubtful, the validity of the licenses themselves are in doubt, as well as their applicability to a situation such as importing.
EULAs for console games are printed ON the box (Score:2, Insightful)
Bzzt. There's no law that prevents you from importing software that is otherwise legal.
Except the EULA printed on the back of the box: "Licensed for use only with products bearing the PlayStation logo and [NTSC|U/C] designation." Any other use violates the patents on the PlayStation hardware.
even if they are subject to licenses, which is certainly fairly doubtful
The console licenses are more explicit than PC software EULAs, as the terms for consoles and games are printed right on the back of the package, next to the UPC symbol, as opposed to being hidden inside the shrinkwrapped box like PC software licenses.
the validity of the licenses themselves are in doubt
Even that doesn't prevent Sony from abusing the legal system, filing frivolous lawsuits against small businesses in order to run up the small businesses' legal bills. The legal system is broken, and Congress has shown itself to be too bought to fix it.
Re:EULAs for console games are printed ON the box (Score:2)
Re:EULAs for console games are printed ON the box (Score:2)
Re:EULAs for console games are printed ON the box (Score:3, Insightful)
Jesus, you can't make up laws just by printing them, you fucking idiot. People aren't 'licensing' the box when they buy it the store, they are buying it.
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2)
Maybe, but a device that routes around regional encoding (like these mod chips) is definitely forbidden by the DMCA. Therefore, its uses are by no means "legit," even if "legal."
The DMCA forbids the use of devices that break copy control and copy control only. It says absolutely nothing about region encoding. Perhaps you should actually, like, read the law before spouting off about it.
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2)
Sony is shutting down UK modchip distributors, and we have no such law here. AFAIK, it's well within our rights to play an import game or movie on a chipped station.
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2, Flamebait)
The argument presented by many people is laughable at best. Yes, but is that "chipped" station legitmate. You are circumventing the copy-control methods of the device and are therefore breaking the law (under the DMCA). Isn't this the hurdle that DeCSS faced? Hmmm.
Has no one learned that big business runs the US and owns it's liberties?
Freedom is a delusion that pacifies the huddled masses. Democracy is a parlour trick and Justice is a farce.
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2)
You're assuming the user is in the U.S. In most of the world it's perfectly legal.
Differing Nations' Freedoms (Score:2)
The US likes to bandy about its ideals of freedom. They're right there in our Constitution. Its part of the propoganda that politicians use to rally the populas during times of crisis and drives our military volunteers to shoulder great risks. It is part of our history. It is the foundation of our identity as a nation.
And it is slowly being chipped away by special interest groups; in this case big business.
One has to wonder how other nations and their governments fare under this onslaught. Especially if "freedom" is not as prominent in the nation's identity.
In this example, it seems that the UK may not be doing any better than the US.
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2)
Yep. Thank f*ck I live in the UK (as I thought I made clear in my original post).
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2)
please learn to read (Score:2)
Sony is shutting down UK modchip distributors, and we have no such law here
Emphasis mine. Clearly, 'here' refers to the UK. The UK is not a part of the US. the DMCA is an American law. Therefore (making that last tenuous connection for you) Nothing he could ever do could fall "under" the DMCA. While England may have a similar law, he said they didn't. Brining up the DMCA does nothing aside from outing yourself as a complete fucking idiot.
Imported Copies Lawfully Aquired - Use OK (Score:4, Informative)
You don't need a license to use software. You only need to have lawfully aquired a copy of that software. According to 17 USC 602 (a) (2), copies imported for personal use have been lawfully aquired. Also, see 17 USC 117 (a) (1) [cornell.edu], which specificly makes copies made as "an essential step in the utilization of the computer program" non-infringing. 17 USC 117 (a) (1)'s exemption certainly includes copies made while loading the program into memory, a popular excuse used by those who argue that a license is required in order to use software. Your arguments that either obtaining or using imported copies is infringing or unlawful are at best unconvincing.
The text of 17 USC 602 (a) (2) follows:
There's also exemptions for government use, scholarly, religion, and educational purposes, and for libraries. You should read all of 17 USC 602 (a) before jumping to conclusions about whether it's legal to import games for personal use or to play lawfully imported games.
Re:Imported Copies Lawfully Aquired - Use OK (Score:2, Insightful)
The DMCA carries a "prohibition on circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works," which would almost certainly apply to modchips.
Therefore, the use of such devices is not "legitimate" or legal. Period.
I'm not in favor of the law, but it is the law.
Re:Did you consider patents? (Score:2)
Yes, I considered patents. The rights to use and resell a single instance of patented invention are granted when the invention is sold to an end user. After all, it's only fair that someone who's paid for an invention doesn't have to pay again every time they use it.
I'm sure Sony would like it very much if they were able to license their patented inventions. In the type of transaction through which the average playstation end user obtains their console, however, these patented inventions are sold, not rented, leased, or licensed.
Sony's exclusions on the use of their patented inventions inside the product have no more force than the words "for home use only" or "not for resale" as they might appear on the packing of a a toaster or voltmeter which contains patented technologies. The manufacturer still has no recourse if I use the toaster at a restaurant, the voltmeter as a part of a professional rework operation, or if I resell either of the items used.
Re:So in otherwords... (Score:2)
For the purposes of qualifying for the exemption in 17 USC 602 (a) (2), the distinction is whether you've imported the copy for your own personal use or imported a whole bunch for resale. How you actually import the copy, whether it be travelling to to the foriegn place and carrying it back or having someone there ship it to you, is unimportant.
What the FUCK? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:HEY!!! If I BUY something it's MINE!!!!! (Score:3)
They have every right; they've purchased those rights from your representatives in Congress. So shut your mouth, go buy all-new region-1 copies of movies all over again, take your soma, and be a happy little consumer.
-- Consumer of the United States of MicroSonyAOL
Re:Legitimate Uses? (Score:2)
The free economy is in Washington: the buyers are big corporations, and the sellers are Congresspeople. The two exchange money for laws. The congresspeople can't raise their prices too high or competing congresspeople will sell laws to the corporations for less money.
The solution is obvious (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
False (Score:5, Informative)
Re:False (Score:3, Informative)
A lot of what "gord" says sounds right to me; here's another take on it, though, from an article in Red Herring [redherring.com] (worth reading for its general "take" on the game wars):
"According to most estimates, Sony's PlayStation 2 cost the company $450 per unit upon initial production in early 2000. The company had first sold the machine as a loss leader for $360 in Japan and for $300 in the United States and Europe. The strategy paid off with the first Play Station because Sony was able to reduce the product's cost from $480 in 1994 to about $80 now (it was initially priced at $299 and is sold at about $99 today). Meanwhile, the company sold about nine games for every console. That model allowed Sony to make billions of dollars over the life of the PlayStation, even if it lost money at first."
actsofgord (Score:2)
Anyway, gord is a zelotous moron. Please don't take anything off his website as 'fact'
Re:You call that evidence? (Score:2)
Linked story [actsofgord.com]
It's some crazy story with no evidence to support its claims. I'll continue thinking Sony sells the hardware at a loss, thanks.
Evidence (of a circumstantial nature) coming right up!
Based on this, I would expect that Sony would be pushing harder for bundles if they were, in fact, taking a loss per unit. Since they're not, I'm going to have to disagree.
Re:False (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:False (Score:4, Insightful)
I would agree that the console market has gotten very expensive to produce a console. The days of when everyone went down to RadioShack, bought some parts, and sold it as a console are now pretty much over.
If memory serves, from 1993 to 1994 we had 14 consoles introduced into the market (Jaguar, 3DO, PlayStation, Saturn, CD-32, NeoGeoCD, PC-FX, 32X, hmm.... memory failure). Well, I have the number 14 in my head. Anyway, there were a lot of consoles coming out in the early 90's. And all were pretty much off the shelf parts.
The PlayStation pretty much ended that era. Suddenly Sony wasn't playing by the rules, and this gave them a huge advantage. Further, SGI wanted to sell their console idea and they floated it around, and eventually Nintendo picked it up and packaged it as the N64. (old interviews in Next Gen magazine with SGI said they offered it to Sega, but Sega declined).
Anyway, that takes us to today. For a console to have a shot, it's got to be bleeding edge. It's got to make us stand up and go "damn that's pretty". To do that costs a lot money.
Nintendo, MS, and Sony all spent a lot of money on their consoles before the first one were made. How much? A hell of a lot more money than I have.
Then we enter the production phase. MS and Nintendo have outsourced for all their parts. It is by far a cheaper way to do things, though it costs more in the long run.
Sony on the other hand is walking into this console generation with all hands saying they will win. They can afford to spend billions building facilities to make PS2 parts, and that they did. Over $2B!
Now, let's go do some math.
Let's assume that the cost of a PS2 if $300US. We'll also pretend that Sony sets all sorts of records. They'll hit 100M sales by the end of 2004, and a billion games by then too.
Assuming they hit a billion games by then, they will have earned $6 billion in royalties. That is the magic number. $6B.
Now, from this $6B, we take away the $2B they have already spent on new facilities. THat leaves $4B. Ok, $4B in the bank.
Next, advertising. Sony spend over half a billion annually on PlayStation brand promotions. We'll round down to $2B for the sake of argument. That leaves $2B in the bank.
Ok, Sony is now sitting at $2B in the bank after a 4 year worldwide record run of the PS2. And that's assuming the machine is a breakeven.
Right now the PS2 is $240US in Japan. Now Japan, and $280US in Europe. Let's say all three regions sell equally, that brings a mean price of $273 per console. That would mean Sony is losing $27 per console now. Assuming we keep this loss average over the course of the life of the console, that would be 2.7B.
Sony just lost $700M assuming the PS2 is a breakeven at $300. And that still doesn't cover what Sony spent actually designing the machine up.
Let's go better! Let's say the popular price of $350 is the cost. So Sony is losing $77 be console on average. Assuming this was the average for the life of the console, Sony would have just lost $5.7B.
Hell, assuming that Sony is losing $77 per console now, even if they were to reduce the cost of the machine every month by $10 a month, Sony would still never post a profit from the PS2, assuming Sony sticks to regularly scheduled price drops of the retail price.
And this still doesn't factor in how the PS2 cost more to design as Sony designed all the parts in it.
The financial arguement that Sony is losing money does not make sense. With Nintendo and MS it does, because they have outsourced. They didn't spend an extra $2B+ up front. Instead they are paying a premium to use someone elses parts and to use someone elses facilties to build their machines.
Which brings us back to the stock fraud arguement. It does not make sense that Sony would hide not only losses from the PS2 from investers to gain a marketshare in which they will continue to lose money, but to then pay dividends on that money they claimed? That further pushes up the loses.
Further, according to Sony's quarterly stock filing, they have $7.6B in cash and cash equivelants on hand. That just isn't enough to carry the kind of losses that everyone is expecting the PS2 to lose.
It also states Sony spent $2B in that quarter on cost of goods as well as advertising and other such ongoing expenses during that quarter in the SCE department. Sony sold 4.62M PS2's and they also also sold 2.37M PS1's.
Assuming we go with the $80 for PS1's ($189M), and $300 for PS2's ($1.407B), that brings a total of $1.596B. Then we add in things like advertising ($100M+ to we're at $1.7B), wages (assuming SCE has only 5000 employees, that would be $100M a month). And boom. We're already at the total money spent without adding in extra things like phone calls, rent, electricity, travel expenses, cost on extra things like controllers, etc, etc. And this is assuming the PS2 is sold at cost!
The cash argument does not make sense either in the long term or the short term.
As for my view on the XBox and GC, it's simple market and consumer buying patterns at work. There has been no change in the level of support the PS2 has, and consumers have no compelling reason to forgo buying a PS2 to buy any of the other two consoles.
It's possible to like something and be critical of it. I'm just being a realist. Further, the PS2 still continues to dominate the GC and Xbox on daily sales. As such, the PS2 will continue to get the most games, and by default the most consumers. It's a vicious cycle.
And as it now stands, I don't see how MS or Nintendo can overthrow the PS2 juggernaught.
As for the site, just for you I'll get on my ass and do an update by Thursday. Just because I love you! I'll bring on the funny!
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:3, Funny)
Re:But (Score:2)
yeah, $20. Or you can get a cord extension ($8) and not worry about losing the remote.
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:2)
Further, sales figures are big propoganda for Sony. They likely do make more in licensing fees if people buy a lot of games, and if developers make a lot of games. Why do developers write games for a console? When there are lots of consumers to buy them. Even by depriving Sony of the profit of licensing fees for games you buy, you are still putting them ahead because they can use you to convince developers to buy licenses to make more games because of you.
If you buy Sony, you help Sony. It doesn't work any other way.
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:2)
This has got me intrigued...where did you get that info from?
Even by depriving Sony of the profit of licensing fees for games you buy, you are still putting them ahead because they can use you to convince developers to buy licenses to make more games because of you
Actually, publishers (they're the ones writing the cheques) take note of how many games get sold per console too.
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:2)
...as well as what many would consider a superior alternative [nintendogamecube.com], for which modchips are not required due to the fact that multi-region modification is trivial [gamesx.com].
< tofuhead >
profit or loss on the console doesn't matter (Score:2)
If you don't like it or if you don't like the company, don't buy it. That goes for PS2 as much as Xbox. Technically and financially, I think you are better off with a PC anyway: better picture, more expandability, upgradability, etc.
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:2)
http://ssxtricky.ea.com/xbox/xbox.html
Dave
Makes no sense (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that it really matters - people will always make these mod chips and sell them, or instructions to make them, on the internet. Heck, even X-Box hacking is gaining steam against M$'s weak protections. The problem is companies want to control more than just their product - they want to control if you can buy it, use it, how you use it and for how long. Yeah, right - I'm going to sit back and pay money so some other company can control a small part of my life.
If we've learned nothing from history, you only own what you can control, and you can't control people or technology... for long.
Re:Makes no sense (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Makes no sense (Score:2)
You forgot the predicate: "was in the U.S."
Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Up until now, Sony has had a tough time with modchips. Each time a new one is released, they release a new way of detecting the modchip to game developers. Game developers add this check, and that modchip is defeated.
Every time a modchip is defeated, the end-user has to upgrade their modchip. Now if every user has to upgrade every time they get a new game, how often do you think it's going to be before the end-user finally gets ticked off at upgrading, and just switches to buying legit copies?
Additionally, think about this; newer games can detect old modchips. So if you have an old modchip, you can't play newer games, even if you buy them legit. Now you're forced to choose between modchip and legit.
This is what Sony's counting on; people "wasting" so much money on modchip upgrades that they go straight. If you can't buy a modchip and have it last, then you may as well not buy the modchip, right?
Enter the Messiah and NEO4. (the latter potentially; I'm not sure if it works the same way) The Messiah is a one-time upgrade that fixes your PS2 for the lifetime of the system. From what I understand, they've placed the chip in such a place that newer Sony games can't easily detect it's presence.
Sony can no longer rely on people getting tired of upgrading modchips--now they have a problem. This is where the DMCA comes in.
Arguably, this is how Sony wanted it all along. Sue them back into the stone age, using their newly-bought DMCA. Of course, they could've used this tactic at any time, but the ability to piss off pirates with a constant "upgrade your modchip" routine probably greatly amused/satisfied the people at Sony. Now that they're no longer able to do that, they'll use the more expensive--yet reliable--method of just suing them into the ground.
It's been in Sony's best interests to wait to sue, btw, because there now exists legal prescedent for using the DMCA. Before, it could've been hairy..
Re:Makes no sense (Score:2)
Most people I know have modded PSOnes, but getting a mod chip installed in a PS2 will easily set you back over $100 (chip is expensive plus getting it installed is really expensive.) For me, that's really not cost-effective right now, especially seeing how most PS2 games are on DVD, and thus can't be copied cheaply. Also, I have no real desire for PS2 imports, as all of the really worthwhile games are coming to the states anyway now. Gone are the days of Americans getting fucked over on games (read: FF5, SD3, the whole Dragon Quest series, Ys, and many other excellent games.) Now we even get the really quirky titles like Dance Dance Revolution and Jet Set Radio.
Pretty much the only use for these new chips is piracy, as the Messiah chip will play all games (copies, imports, etc) with no swap. The NEO4 requires a swap for burned DVD PS2 games, but that's it. There are USB mods that will allow regionless DVD playback. But none of this really outweighs the fact of how damn expensive these things are. I'm really not ready to shell out $150 to be able to play burned games (which will cost me $400 for a burner and $10 a game) and thus, these mod chips seem more of a niche product than the PSOne mod chips.
Re:Makes no sense (Score:4, Informative)
Thats all fantastic speculation there, save for the fact this is going down IN ENGLAND!!!!!!!
I cant believe you managed to type so much based on absolutely nothing
Re:Makes no sense (Score:2)
Self-inflicted piracy, or Why I would use Chips... (Score:5, Insightful)
- The only reason I would buy, or make, a chip would be to play legally-bought imports, because:
- Some PAL conversions suck.
- Some games never even get released here! (ala Tsugunai)
- The ever-present release/conversion delay.
- Prices
- I wouldn't, but with this in mind, and a chip installed, other people might be more tempted to buy illegal or counterfeit copies, since they already have the chip to run them.
- (So) buy basically forcing me to chip my playstation to play legally[1] imported games, they may well have increased piracy... Ooops.
[1] My PS2 is legally bought, my imports (would be) legally bought, all my games and peripherals are Sony branded, yet I cannot play games I legally buy. The same stupid situation exists with DVDs.Re:Self-inflicted piracy, or Why I would use Chips (Score:2)
This is exactly the sort of thing that shouldn't happen in a free globalized market. Let's hope the WTO has some teeth to it and charges Sony and other companies with illegal trade practices.
Re:Self-inflicted piracy, or Why I would use Chips (Score:2)
I live in Region 2 but I have a lot of Region 1 DVDs because a) I'm english-speaking but live in a non-English-speaking country; and b) it's tough to get to the cinema when you've got 3 small kids. Anyhow, my region-free DVD player plays 'em all, so I'm happy.
But, I'd quite like a 2nd DVD player for the bedroom, and I'd quite like a PS2 too. Can't really put a good case to the Significant Other for buying both but if the PS2 played ALL my DVDs (rather than just the region 2 subset) then I'd be buying one right away.
However, Sony don't want me doing that. Kinda dumb of Sony I reckon, but I guess they know best.
Regards, Ralph.
you have that backwards (Score:4, Informative)
The article says "Mod-chips
It really doesn't take much to proof read an article quickly before posting a story to make sure everything lines up...
Re:You misunderstand (Score:2)
Editorialising is usually adding an opinion to a fact, not completely obscuring the fact. Not to mention it's usually done by the editor. Taco's contribution was to not care about DVD zoning.
Not about Region coding or 'personal backups' (Score:3, Flamebait)
Backups are a red herring - it is technically infeasable right now to back up PS2 games, and may remain so well into the future. I don't think PS2s will even read DVD-Rs... The only possible use for the 'backup' features is software piracy. To say otherwise is to brand yourself an idiot. Be honest here people, you just want to play 'backups' downloaded off IRC. Stop whining about this and just admit you want to steal games, and accept that Sony is going to try and do something about it!
In a perfect world, there would be exactly two functions performed by a PS2 mod chip - DVD region code breaking and PS2 region breaking. Region coding is the biggest bunch of bullshit that the world has ever seen, and circumventing it doesn't even result in lost revenues.
Re:Not about Region coding or 'personal backups' (Score:3, Interesting)
Misleading? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Misleading? (Score:2, Informative)
SONY THEMSELVES MADE THE CONSOLE SO THE TWO ARE LUMPED TOGETHER.
You *cannot* make an 'import/region free only'-mod to PS2. Once you do that, as a side effect, the console also plays CDR/DVDR copies.
There has been lenghty discussion about this in the related websites, and the fact is that when the modchip developers finally had the breakthru and got the imported originals to work, they got the 'copied games work without disk swap' as a free bonus.
There has been disk-swap-requiring modchips for over an year. They didn't work with originals from other regions - to get the game to work you first *had to make a copy of it* (and usually apply a patch or two to the CD image), and do an unwieldy swap trick to boot it up. Sony woke up the moment there was a modchip that ran everything with no disc swap - basically as soon as their 'detecting if the disc is original and from what region'-protection was reverse-engineered and everything could be played without disc swaps.
Reason for this is simple; There are *seriously* more people who just want to import US games to europe than those who want to pirate stuff. Why? Most of the new games releases come here 1-6 months later than US. I *CANNOT* buy Metal Gear Solid 2 for my PS2. I won't be able to until maybe sometime late february 2002. I have really no desire to get a pirated copy on a DVDR - I'm perfectly willing to buy it. I cannot. These new mods would have made it possible for me to import it from the US.
Naturally this would have harmed local Sony Computer Entertainment Europe and their country-specific distributors and their local monopoly to rip off anything they want and release as late as they want. Their options to prevent the loss of monopoly is either to match US prices & do a lot of work to make sure stuff is released simultaneously, or kill the modchip developers. Quess which one is easier to do?
Both known developers of these new modchips are in europe. Market for the chips is mainly in europe. DMCA has very little to do with the whole issue, as it is not an european law. Sony just wants to protect their ability to release stuff in europe as late as it wants and at a price it wants. Cheaper to release late than to spend money to make sure localizations of manuals etc are done by the time the game is ready and shipping.
Just my 0.02 euros...
The cost of leisure ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Now is this considered fair? Places like Australia don't believe so as their competitive watchdog recently ruled that multi-zoing was anti-competitive as it hindered parallel importing (is source CD from other countries). On the other hand companies argue that it is like passenger classes in planes, first-class still get there at the same time as cattle-class but pay significantly more. Many companies (esp software/pharmaceuticals) use the high prices of their products in 1st world countries to cross-subsidise less developed markets. Given the increasing connectivity of world trade this is becoming increasingly difficult.
Computers with digital rights management (aka service variability) is one mechanism to enforce this market segmentation, especially if it can be enforced through fixed/controlled end-points (cough*Xbox*cough). This is why companies hate mod-chipers and related products (satellite decodes, overclockers, etc) as it allows individuals to exploit the artificial price differential between 1st/3rd world pricing strategies. The end-result is a technological arms race (embedded ids, self-destruct, registrations, etc) in order to maintain this separation between high-margin customers and more marginal users. A person collecting warez for bragging rights is *NOT* willing to pay the same recommended price as someone looking to kill time by renting an evening game.
Anyone who thinks a company is going to destroy their global economic model just to please a small (but vocal) group of (from their point of view) "parasites". A large enough business entity can tolerate a small percentage of free-riders but is likely to come down hard on any systematic or organised threats to their business provided they can distance themselves from any media-fallout (cough*Adobe*cough)
Fortunately the free market (e.g. open source movement) has a little influence in moderating the extreme behaviour of the more pervasive global corporations.
LL
Re:The cost of leisure ... (Score:2)
In summary, the same company that makes it's product where labor and goods are cheap and exports it to where labor and goods are expensive (reletively speaking) objects strongly to consumers buying their product where labor and goods are cheap and importing them to where they are expensive.
Hmmmm....
Re:The cost of leisure ... (Score:4, Informative)
If you sell something to me for $10 you can't stop me from going and selling it to someone else for $15, even if that cuts into your intended business plan of selling it for $40.
If you want to sell it to people in rich countries, price it low enough that it's not worth them buying it in a poor country and shipping it over.
The whole concept of "veteran's discount" and such is that stores are giving this away to generate good will even though they know there's no law to specifically support it. A veteran could buy a product from a store for 20% off and sell it to someone for 10% off, pocketing the difference. Stores know this and don't make the discount too large and don't offer it on items that have a nearly 100% resale value.
It's a completely different topic for AMD to test a batch of chips and sell them at the speed they'll all perform at instead of testing each one individually. They're potentially selling more, for less. They're selling an nMhz chips and if yours works at n+100Mhz, you've got no reason to complain.
The only time this becomes objectionable would be if AMD sold a chip that could be overclocked and then tried to sue you for doing so. Luckily though, the hardware companies (with the exception of Rambus whose CEO is about a smart as a stick of warm butter) know that there's no basic in law for this.
Not sure what this means... (Score:2)
Sony should bless modchips (Score:2, Insightful)
I hate "crippleware" (Score:4, Insightful)
If a "mod chip" is all that it takes to play "pirated" software, maybe they need to take a look at their copy protection scheme...
My question is whether the "regional issue" involves pricing or something else? Are titles selling at a price commensurate with the local economy? Would Sony LOSE money if these titles were imported through the "grey market" ? Or are they trying to protect the distribution infrastructure of various countries?
Imagine the implications if a company like Sony used virtually NO copyprotection and sold an item at a reasonable price... might not the sheer increase in volume of sales off-set the marginal effects of piracy? People have a finite amount of money they spend on games, music, movies, whatever... and the price merely determines HOW MANY of these items you actually purchase (for a relatively honest consumer). The same companies receive the same amounts of money (it's not like there are that many companies involved).
Whenever people talk about how much money is LOST to piracy, I always am left thinking that the money was never there in the first place- that those "pirates" would never have purchased the item anyway... so protection does more to piss off honest consumers than to increase revenue. How many ordinary people actually take the time or effort to mod a console (or overclock a PC) ?
Finally, if this regional protection issue gets out of hand, we'll all be purchasing items that will eventually only play on one machine.
The PS2 modchip is a wondrous thing.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Old modchips worked by flashing the Playstation BIOS, or replacing parts of it on boot, so that when the game would call on the copyprotection, the new BIOS would say that every disc in the unit was good.
PS2 is different, though. See, it's meant to be flashed every single time you put in a new disc. And since the code in memory can change every time a new game comes out, it's a bit difficult to make a BIOS modchip. You need something different.
The quick and dirty solution people came up with for the PS2 is to intercept the checks as they're heading to whereever, and change the signals so that they're the proper result. Thing is, each game can do this differently. Due to the nature of the PS2, the checks could be called from a vector unit, from the memory card processor.. or even the reader unit itself. And the modchip maker has to add a wire for each signal they need to intercept.
Nowadays, PS2 modchips require 20+ connections (probably even more by now) just to cover all of the different signals that can be sent during a check. And each check is cumulative; you have to keep the old checks while adding for new ones. This is kinda ridiculous, since this introduces modchip bloat.. a new modchip defeat comes out, and they have to add more connections... it can really suck for people if they need a new modchip every time a new game comes out.
Enter the Messiah. You wire it into the DVD-ROM reading hardware, rather than throughout the rest of the unit. Since all checks have to go through the DVD system anyways, this is only logical.. thing is, Sony made it really tough to figure it out. Which is why it took them over two years to get the chip made.
Without a link to NEO4, I can't say whether or not they've gone the same route, but if they have, these two chips could spell the end for Sony's PS2. Since all PS2 consoles use the same BIOS, flashed every time a game starts, Sony can't easily change the hardware design of any newer units coming onto the market. So if this modchip is undetectable, and it does all the things they're saying it does in hardware, this could be checkmate.
Re:I hate "crippleware" (Score:2, Interesting)
Ever heard of Blockbuster? Less than $5 for 5 nights with a game. If you can't afford that, then it's highly unlikely you can afford the game to begin with, and so don't spout bullshit when you know that the reason you pirate games is so that you don't have to pay $40 for them.
Does your work know you recommend software based on your pirate activities? And how do you figure you can't get the same type of information from a 30-day eval or a money-back guarantee? Seems to me you'd be getting the same software you pirated. You just have a time limit on how long you can use it/get your money back. Wherein lies the problem. I bet you continue using the warezed software at home, don't you? And I wonder how much warez you use at work ...
That has nothing to do with piracy. That's due to region-coding, which is a completely different animal. I know there were modchips for the old PSX that would kill the region coding without allowing pirated software. I don't know if such a thing exists for the PS2 yet (probably not), but I'm sure one will soon enough. It's a bit hazy whether or not playing movies/games from other regions is illegal (I don't believe it is illegal, but IANAL). It's very clear that playing "backups" (euphemism for pirated movies/games) is illegal. "Right" and "wrong" don't come into it, unless you subscribe to the school of thought that believes the law defines what's "right" and "wrong".
... take you to court for copyright infringement.
There ARE modchips that still disallow CD-Rs (Score:3, Interesting)
If more companies made such chips, perhaps Sony might see them in another light than just a "piracy" enabler.
NEO4 is a warez mod (Score:4, Informative)
I'll probably get a PS2 next year, and I want to be able to play both PS2 and PSX imports with it. I still haven't seen a mod that would do both, and NEO4 isn't one either. I have several imported PSX games that haven't been released in Europe at all (like some of the best PSX titles including Chrono Cross and Xenogears), and those are the only reason I have mod for my PSX. Sooner or later there will be similar titles for PS2.
As for DVD regions, Region X package for PS2 is both cheap and well-working. I don't see why anyone would want an awkward modchip that costs several times more just to watch import-DVDs.
It's probably the DVD thing.. (Score:4, Informative)
Sony do seem to have a bee in their bonnets about game imports.. which is a shame, because customers in Europe tend to have a bee in *their* bonnets about games being slowed down to run in PAL. Sony complained that Tekken 3 didn't sell well in Europe and blamed imports. They might have done better to blame the fact that the European Tekken 3 was slow as a lame dog because of the PAL conversion. What's even stupider is that the DC established that a PAL60-capable console is entirely feasible (and it's no extra work to implement, because the binary for the PAL60 version is usually just the same as the USA one), but Sony didn't copy it.
Also, somebody who should know has told me that the protection system on the Playstation 2 actually makes it harder to make an import-playing chip than a pirate-playing chip. The real protection on the PS2 is the DVD format and nothing has gotten around that yet.
Oh, and if you really want to protest, don't refuse to buy a PS2 - buy one and SMASH IT. Sony actually _loses_ money on selling PS2s which it hopes to pay back with games. If you buy one and smash it, they lose their subsidy, AND someone else can't buy that one. This could be especially good near to Christmas.. (actually, I'm surprised console firms don't do this to each other, but they'd probably get sued)
Re:It's probably the DVD thing.. (Score:2)
Sony MAKES money on each PS2--quite a bit, in fact (Score:5, Informative)
More actsofgord [actsofgord.com] links. People should read this site---in addition to being funny and evil, he really knows what he's talking about. In this case, console manufacturers typically do not lose money on each console [actsofgord.com]. This includes Sony and Nintendo right now. Only Microsoft is losing money on each XBOX. According to his calculations, Sony is making a pretty penny, too. If you really want to hurt them, buy an XBOX (but do you really want to help MS?), or a GameCube (same applies to Nintendo, really).
They're pretty much all evil, I guess. Maybe I'll visit the bookstore. ;-)
Mod chip history (Score:2, Interesting)
DMCA Outlaws Soldering (Score:2, Funny)
The Real Reason Sony Cares about imports (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Aaargh... (Score:2)
Pirating games...duh! (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to say that this is fair in a legal respect, but Sony isn't thinking about law (like every other corporation); they are thinking about money. Again, blame the creation of the stock market for creating this mentality in businesses.
THESE MODCHIPS ARE NOT FOR PIRACY (Score:5, Insightful)
You really should read actsofgord [actsofgord.com], which explains this nicely. There are two sorts of modchips: the ones that defeat copy protection, and the ones that defeat region protection. The latter are what we're talking about; the only use for them is playing legitimate, bought-and-paid-for games from different regions.
There is only one reason to have region "protection", and that's simply control. The only thing I can see this gains for companies is by letting them use this artificial monopoly to increase the price in certain regions. Technological controls keep them from importing. This is not a copyright-protection issue. It is only an issue of control and artificial price inflation.
I have a PS2 (not to mention lots of peripherals and 15 legitimate games I paid full price for, not to mention the load of legitimate PSX games I also bought), and I love the games, and I'd love to import stuff. Sony's wanting to rip another $400+ out of me for an import PS2 is just pure greed. They lost against Bleem, I hope they lose here, too.
I love the games. I want the games. But this is ridiculous.
Excellent Point... (Score:2)
And boy, did he play import titles. He spent most of his disposable income importing games from Japan 6 months before they'd hit the U.S., if ever. Cost an arm and a leg, but he was willing to do it to get the games early and often.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Sony exerts region controls through artificial means, sometimes never distributing a title in a given region at all. Why should we allow companies to arbitrarily cut up the world into marketing regions, so that they can maximize profits through regional licensing deals, at the detriment of the public at large? They shouldn't. In the U.S. at least, copyrights and patents are instituted not as a fundamental right of property ownership but rather to improve the public good through furthering the "useful arts and sciences." So, as far as I'm concerned companies shouldn't be allowed to divide the world up into marketing fiefdoms to the detriment of the public. There ought to be laws against that, and prior to corporations completely controlling Congress through big campaign contributions, there would have been.
Fortunately, the piracy-havens in the Far East are also the last bastions of the freedom to buy hardware that's region-free or to buy kits to make your hardware region-free. http://www.lik-sang.com is the place to go. Hong Kong may pirate everything, but they're no worse in the final analysis than the corporate assholes control what we can see, hear, and play in any given region. I think they're a necessary, counter-balancing force.
This is especially so when we reflect that Europeans are forbidden by their governments from ever seeing some American films and games in their entirety, and Americans are forbidden by corporate censorship from ever seeing some Japanese or European films and games. Why should a German be forbidden from seeing Nazi symbols and red blood in games like Return to Castle Wolfenstein? Why should an American not get to see the complete version of *The Professional*, which was actually a good movie while the American cut was dreck. (They finally released the full film in the U.S. many years later, as *Leon*, but I ordered it from France years before that.) And you'd never believe how many Japanese anime cartoons and games are censored and Bowdlerized before they ever reach the U.S. Oh, and Britain is utterly insane in the extent to which it censors American films for violence.
Technical controls to prevent you from seeing anything your government or corporate censors don't want you to see are being implemented. Sony, the DVD-CA and others are attempting to destroy ways around these controls. Just because current controls are minor and largely ineffectual means nothing. In the future they can be made (almost?) unbreakable and be applied to everything you see and hear, from games to movies to television to music to radio--maybe even to the Internet. Don't think that last is impossible--remember that the FBI has a plan to concentrate all Internet traffic at key points for monitoring purposes, so if the FBI can get the backbones to play along for this, who knows what might be orchestrated 10 years from now.
That's not a future I want to live in. That's a dystopia if ever there were one.
Re:Pirating games...duh! (Score:2)
Also, I suspect you have to have the linux boot dvd that's included with the dev kit in order to run anything off of the hard drive. It all comes down to being the same old matter of needing the boot codes/format in order to boot whatever the stuff is in a PS2. I'd say you're out of luck.
Re:Pirating games...duh! (Score:2)
Still, you're not going to be able to do anything spectacular. The linux unit probably flashes the bios of the PS2 in such a way that it can't boot stuff from the DVD drive. (Every time you boot a disc in a PS2, the PS2's bios is flashed.) And I'll bet they don't let you flash the bios yourself from within their linux kit.
Moderators: Top of the page != Insightful (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Aaargh... (Score:2)
then sales would go up
This would be a bad thing for Sony - if PS2 sales go up without an increase on games, Sony loses money.
Common Misinterpretation of 17 USC 602 (a) (Score:5, Informative)
I suspect you're referring to 17 USC 602 (a), which reads as follows:
But one important thing you've neglected to do is to read further. 17 USC 602 (a) (2) goes on to say:There's also exemptions for government use, scholarly, religion, and educational purposes, and for libraries. You should read all of 17 USC 602 (a) before jumping to conclusions about whether it's legal to import games for personal use or to play lawfully imported games.
Assuming you're taking imports through customs... (Score:2)
I'm sure Sony and the Law doesn't have a problem with you buying two or three different (with respective region encoding) PS2's to play your games.
So yes, according the above legal sections, you can 'import' copyrighted material for personal use, but this doesn't explicitly 'undo' other laws (such as licensing a regional DVD for compatible regional DVD players) and allow the viewing of said material on unauthorized players.
Re:Common Misinterpretation of 17 USC 602 (a) (Score:2, Informative)
The fact that whatever you import differs from what's available domesticly does not cause 17 USC 602 (a) (2) to cease to grant its exception allowing one to import copies for personal use. Read 17 USC 602 again; it mentions nothing of the sort. Indeed, the main reason for importing a work rather than purchasing it domesticly is that what's available by import is not currently available locally.
Re:Legitimate uses?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Cartels that artificially control prices and distribution may be legal, but many people, myself included, believe that they are wrong. Slavery, prohibition, and preventing women from voting were all legal once in the U.S.
And there are plenty of instances where "copy protection" causes problems for legitimate users. I've had many rented VHS tapes with Macrovision where the tracking was screwed up. Some of my games require me to have a CD in the drive even though I installed everything on the hard disk. I do not copy these things. I paid for them legitimately.
-Kevin
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
Yeah, right.
What Sony need to do is make it absolutely clear that a PS2 disc is only a carrier for some intellectual property you have licenced. If the disc gets borked, take it to a shop and ask for another - and they will swap it without even blinking. Of course, we have just about no chance of this actually happening, but it would get around a whole bunch of "backup" issues.
Dave
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
I don't really care about import games, and I'm not particularly interested in pirating domestic releases, either. Let's face it, there aren't enough good games to make piracy worthwhile... I'll just buy the handful that don't suck. But I'm interested in a mod chip so that I can play burned copies of the games I've licensed and leave the originals in their cases. If Sony would happily replace any disc that got damaged (for a nominal replication fee, even), my interest in a mod chip would be nil.
Of course, Sony isn't exactly "customer-oriented", so we'll probably never be so lucky. I think the PS2 is going to be my last Sony electronics purchase... the DVD issues (with absolutely no information on their new drivers, other than that you can buy them with a $20 remote) have pretty much sealed that for me.
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
Are you getting something where the sound and video drop out of sync?
Dave
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
I'm mad at Sony for not telling me whether their new drivers address such issues, and mad at Fox for selling me a transparent DVD (which I vaguely suspect may be the problem).
I'm working on a PS2/DVD compatibility database, and may or may not finish it. If I do, I'll put it online with a decent interface so people can update it with their own findings... the couple of lists I've found online are manually compiled and infrequently updated.
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm, good point. I could blabber something about escrow, but it'd be crap because there is no way Sony are putting 100,000 GT3 disks in a warehouse in case somebody like me scratches one. BTW - have you actually seen a GT3 disk? They have this messed up "PS" logo watermark on the read side. The read side. God, that'd be a bastard to pirate properly.
Placing the word backup in quotes as you did looks like it is meant to indirectly accuse anyone who makes backup copies of programs or games they have purchased of copyright infringement.
Guilty, but that's what the vast majority of modchips are used for, unfortunately. As an aside, I'm not exactly snow white when it comes to this issue myself. I have pirated (PC) games in the past - they generally get installed, cracked, and played for up to (generally) 24 hours. Anything that keeps my attention for longer than that warrants going out and buying a copy. For the last couple of years that's been Quake3 and UT, everything else has been chucked, forgotten, and not missed in the slightest.
For the PS2 this problem is solved with video game rental from your local video shop. SSX - buy. Ridge Racer - don't buy.
Dave
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
Why not, it's not like each disk costs them very much.
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
You're absolutely right. That's because they would sell exacly 1 copy of each game published, for the very brief period before developers abandoned PS2 developement altogether.
Re:If you can't beat them, Join them (Score:2)
I will not buy a PS2 until I can backup my game collection.
And I'm sure game developers would just love working with the system. You'd need to add another $500 subsidy to all the dev houses for lost revenue if you wanted them to continue developing. Now you're out $700. vs $20 for a mod chip.
I will not buy a PS2 until I can backup my game collection.
I'm sure sony cares, I really do (btw, those disks have warrantees)
Re:haha sony (Score:2)
IIRC, Square is still on board with Sony, exclusively. IIRC, Konami, Capcom, and most developers are making games for all three major consoles right now as well.
I think Sony is more pissed that people are pirating games.
Re:Ease of copying killed the Dreamcast... (Score:2, Interesting)
In the beginning there was NES and master sytem. Both were good, but as soon as NES gained %10 market share and NEC decided to bring the PC duo to the states as the turbo grafX sega got scared and went back to make an even better system. Main thing that killed the system more than anything was sega thought they would port their own games to it and make a bundle, so not too many 3rd parties produced games for it.
The better system came to be known as the Genesis, or megadrive in japan. Oooh ahh parellax scrolling backgrounds, 128x128 sprites, 16 bit. FM sound! Even better yet it was based on system-B hardware from the arcades! Arcade (cough sega) games could easily be ported. Again sega gambles that they could not be dethroned because their share of the arcade market was so strong. SNES arrives on the scene along with TurbografX. Sega tries to compete with Nintendo's polygon games by introducing the 32X, terrbible failure, nobody wanted to pay for an extra peripheral to poly's. Worse yet was their try to compete with the TurbografX by releasing an overpowered (but well priced) CD addon that was mostly used to show the girl from Different strokes running around in scantily clad lingerage. The FMV games sucked really bad, they just plain stunk. Dragons lair was cool, thats about it. Again sega gambles on their brand name to compete in the console arena.
To further add to the confusion and to compete with the N64and atari jaguar (yes atari was still trying) sega released the saturn with maybe 10 games at the most written for it. Developers said it was a pain to code for (i'm just repeating what I read) Sega was left to develop most of the games in house. Again they gamle on their own games and lost.
Ok lets go to the dreamcast. I'm not gonna long wind it anymore, im outta steam but sega gets scared by Xbox and PS2 and heads for the hills yet again.
Most of the gamers I know, we were like 14-16 years of age back in 1984-85 when consoles really started to move. . Between me and my friends we got close to 17-19 years experience with buying, selling, trading, and most importantly playing consoles. Every one of them i've ever talked to felt completely screwed by sega. It is a pattern they repeat over and over again which in my opinion will eventually drive the company out of business, and that is, "When anyone steps up to us we're gonna run away run away!" because that is exactly what sega has allways done.
They make great games, and they make great console systems. They COULD turn it around by taking nintendo's and playstations approach of "Lets hire a great team, and push this system to its limits for many years" DK3 on the SNES really pushed the envelope for platformers IMHO and is a shining example of what new development tools and methods can do to boost the life of a console.
Sega, if you're reading this, if you really want my money listen up. Don't be so ready to give up on the DC yet. Make an X server for that graphics chip you use that runs on both the DC and PC hardware (my buddy has a PC based version of your DC graphics chip, no X server exists) Make sure you ship ethernet adapters, keyboards, mice, hard drive adaptors and some friggen version of linux with the thing. I for one would gladly pay $200-300 for a completely custamizable system than can be used as an X terminal on any TV. I will guarantee you millions of dollars in revenue because THIS SITE WOULD REPORT IT. You would have millions of geeks rushing out to buy them cause they would be cool. The usability of the system would be stretched out for many years if you did this and as the price of hardware got cheaper and your volume of sales larger, there would be a good profit in it for you.
Re:Ease of copying killed the Dreamcast... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sega don't (didn't) make the graphics chip, Videologic do. The (current) "PC Version" is the Kyro II, which uses a similar Tile Accelerator approach to the PVR chipset in the DC. There is an X server, and linux, and keyboards, and mice, and ethernet available for the DC. You would pay about $2-300 to do that (without a harddisk), once you'd found someone willing to sell you the ethernet (in short supply).
You'd probably be better off getting something like this x86 settop box [gctglobal.com] for the same money, which would be quieter (silent vs DC's noisy fan) and easier get binaries and bits for (but suck for games), and you can either add a 2.5" HDD to it, or keep it silent and boot off a dirt-cheap CompactFlash, your server, or DiskOnChip.
Personally, I would not use X on an 800x600 monitor, let alone my TV.
Re:Ease of copying killed the Dreamcast... (Score:2)
Where's -1 Wrong when you need it?
GDROM games are not easy to copy; very few people have the hardware and software to do it, and they are keeping pretty quiet about the details. I'm presuming the easiest option is to write something for the Dreamcast which reads a GDROM and spits the data out the serial port. Having gotten this information though, it then needs to be cut down from 1GB or so to something that will fit on a notmal CDROM. It's not trivial.
The Dreamcast as a platform died due to some combination of Sega's financial troubles and the depressing effect of Sony's PS2 marketing machine. I don't know the relative weights of these contributions, though certainly Sony's efforts were the most visible.
I still can't see any justification for region-locking of console software, other than to artifically maintain otherwise unsupportable price differentials. People will still tend to buy the localized version of a game if it's available, just because it's much easier to read documentation and in-game text that's in your own language.
On the Dreamcast at least, it's pretty clear that most people who have a mod-chip installed are doing so for the ability to play imported games, given than the pirated CDROM cuts are typically self-booting.
Re:Ease of copying killed the Dreamcast... (Score:2)
1 - purchase and hook up programmer's serial cable
2 - download dreamcast developer's kit.. if you feel like it. otherwise, acquire some dcwarez utilities (dreamrip)
3 - burn serial slave CDR, boot it up
4 - write program that sends files over serial cable (or just get dreamrip); swap in target GD-ROM and upload and run the program on Dreamcast. wait 25 hours for process to complete..
5 - take your cd-burning software, and add all files you yanked from the GD-ROM to the list
6 - find huge-looking music files. downgrade from stereo to mono using tools included in dreamrip, or just link those tracks to others, until you've got enough space for it all on the CDR + 3 megs
7 - burn to BIN image (not to disc)
8 - run bin2boot on image (this is the quickest way, but it's only available for windows afaik)
9 - burn resulting CDI to a CDR
10 - insert in Dreamcast and hit power button
You can get all the software you need from any of the irc warez channels and a visit to here [mc.pp.se]. This should work for the earlier games.. don't know about later ones, because they started adding checks after a while. Those may take a little more work.
For legal backups only, blah blah blah..
Re:Ease of copying killed the Dreamcast... (Score:2)
If you had a CD-rom drive with the right firmware you could read it easily
Re:Its their own fault (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh, and dismissing those inconvenienced by the region coding debacle as "fanboys of Japanese video games, scat films, bukakke movies, cartoons, etc." may be a trifle incorrect. Anything released by a non-US distribution house has the same region coding problem, and there's more film industries out there than you might realise.
But no, if all you get is from your own region (whatever that is), you *won't* realise the existence of the outside world. And is that ignorance a good thing, do you think?