Panasonic 'Q' First Look 194
austinij writes "National Console Support has purchased and taken apart the Panasonic 'Q', a Nintendo Gamecube/DVD player device in one. Pictures and brief descriptions are included. Lets hope for a review soon! " That just
looks so nifty. I've heard of DVD players including PS1 support
in the not so distant future too. Apparently its fairly inexpensive
to do it now.
Consoles & DVD's? (Score:3, Redundant)
Console manufacturers loose money selling consoles (but make money on royalties on the games).
Why would DVD manufacturers be interested in attaching something that would really cut profits? Unless the companies name is "Sony" I'm assuming they aren't getting a cut of the game royalties...
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:1)
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:1)
Also, people might want to buy a DVD-player from a well-known-source (one only wanting a DVD-player won't buy a Playstation) like Panasonic, but might be willing to spend a couple more bucks for the "extra" capabilities (like playing a game).
I personnally think this is a good idea, because it can only boost the sales of the games, and so the original goal of the sales department of sony is reached.
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2)
I'm guessing CmdrTaco really doesn't know what he's talking about but act like he does.
DVD makers are making huge profits anyways. DVD is the fastest media format format to take off.
Console makers CHOOSE to loose money on the hardware in order to sell lots more software. Console gaming software licenses aren't cheap, SONY and others know they can only sell so many hard units... although the software sales can go on forever.
With rival companies selling PSX enabled DVD players they have another feature to promote. Maybe they will get ANOTHER cut of the pie since they are actually helping SONY.
But then again... CD player makers all pay tribute to Sony and Philips, and they are still around.
My DVD has built in mp3 decoding, I bet they paid for that too.
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:5, Insightful)
The answer is pretty simple, actually. Adding console functionality to a DVD player (which already includes display conversion electronics and a drive unit, along with rudiments like power supply and case) is probably much cheaper than producing a whole console. Coupled with the fact that the console vendor (Sony, Nintendo, et al) might be enticed to partially subsidize the production (because the loss to them per unit would be less than for a full console), and the fact that consumers will be willing to pay somewhat more for a combination unit (which is probably priced much less than the DVD unit and the console would cost together if bought separately), it's probably a break-even or better situation.
Besides, even if they ended up losing 5% of their profit margin on the machine, but sold more units as a result, they'd still go for it. The DVD player market right now is crowded and commoditizing (products with similar features compete on price), so almost any differentiation is something to be sought, from a development and marketing standpoint.
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2)
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:1, Informative)
I think it would be lack of marketing/brand (I've never heard of either of them but I have heard of Nintendo), the software does not seem as compelling (compare Nuon's games to the gamecubes line up). An even better example would be the PS2 where outdoor ads tout it as being a "games movies music" machine.
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally, I feel Nuon was an excuse to re-key the coding scheme of DVD, and get rid of the plain-text keys that people are exploiting in the current specification, but was otherwise an engineering feat looking for a problem to address. Shoving a Gamecube (which people want) into a DVD player satisfies the desires of people who want both, or who want one but are interested in the other. I know I'm trying to hold off on buying a Gamecube until this hybrid hits the US - most of what I use my Playstation 2 for is playing movies, and my justification for buying the hybrid is that it's a secondary DVD player for another room, that also plays a different format of game than what I already have.
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2)
We'll never really know as VM LAbs has filed for Chapter 11.
Next Logical Step? (Score:2, Interesting)
Gran Turismo anyone?
Mmmm.... High Resolution Monitor... (Insert Homer Simpson drooling sound)
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2)
I'll bet you dollars to donuts Sony, Nintendo, et al. are OEMing this stuff to DVD manufacturers at a a loss, so the DVD manufacturers aren't paying for the loss, the console makers are.
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Consoles & DVD's? (Score:2)
DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:1)
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:2)
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:1)
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:1, Offtopic)
sorry
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:1)
PS.... weird, I've never seen anyone else with the @mindless.com email address... iname, right?
Re:DVD players with PS1 support...O/T (Score:2)
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:1)
I'm fairly certain he means PS1. Sony is still selling enough PS2 units that they wouldn't want to intentionally create competition.
But this is for a story for something pretending to be a GameCube which hasn't even been released in Europe yet!
I want one of those cute little cubes.
Re:DVD players with PS1 support... (Score:1)
-motardo
What is the point? (Score:1)
Well, now I know the connectors glow blue. That's rather neat.
Bah. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bah. (Score:1)
Re:Bah. (Score:1)
They could just remove fan/heatsync components and vent the hot air to the top of the unit.
If anyone creates a waffle mod please send me a note, I'm willing to purchase a kit.
Re:Bah. (Score:1)
Re:Bah. (Score:5, Funny)
[ot] proposal (Score:2)
But anyway, thanks for putting up the "what do you put in a toaster?" thing, I couldn't remember what the setup was for it.
Does this mean... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm ignorant as to the Nintendo-Panasonic relationship and I don't know anything about their hardware licensing but if they are planning on letting 3rd parties have access to it, they might be onto a really good idea. I know it's a completely different situation, but remember how Macintosh used to keep everything Mac, no 3rd party, but PC's were all about the 3rd party? Well we see how that turned out...
Re:Does this mean... (Score:1)
Standards (Score:1)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
Panasonic has been taking stabs at the video game market for quite some time now. Remember that Panasonic made the first 3DO systems (the REAL). This is their second major attempt, and this time their doing it with Nintendo.
3DO did licensing too (well, they only did licensing, they weren't a real hardware company, although I remember they had some manufacturing assests). That didn't work well at all. Part of 3DO's problem is that the companies making the consoles always tried to make a profit. Nintendo has a successful business model losing money on the consoles; I'm not entirely sure what Panasonic gets out of it.
Except that (hell, I can't remember where I read it), in a few months, Nintendo expects to actually profit off of selling Gamecubes. Looking at the motherboard, it's not that hard to believe. Panasonic could make good money on the Q.
(Hmm. I don't seem to have any sort of argument here, but it is a bunch of interesting info, no? :)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
The point was that if you want to play a PS2 game you have to buy the console from Sony. Same goes for Xbox. Now you can play games on a Nintendo product and a Panasonic product. I was simply taking a hypothetical next step, comparing that situation to a Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc PC. Will you ever have a Dell, Gateway, XYZ, device with GameCube functionality? This could apply to PC's, Macs even, TV's, Set Top Boxes, DVD players, etc, etc.
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
He then extrapolated this speculation to apply to the Nintendo/Panasonic situation.
This example could also be drawn from VHS/Betamax. Betamax was technically the superior technology, but it lost to VHS in the home consumer market because anyone could manufacture VHS machines (and nearly everyone did), whereas only a few (or only one? Sony? I forget) could manufacture Betamax machines.
Anti-Piracy??? (Score:2, Redundant)
I don't see Nintendo being happy about this...
That's why they're not bringing it to the US (Score:2, Insightful)
If this is in fact the case, I would imagine that the Panasonic device will be designed from the ground up not to be able to play US discs. (Firmware notes that it is an 80mm disc and refuses to boot it since it knows that all the games in Japan are "normal sized" discs).
What we REALLY need is a software device to allow consoles to provide basic word processing etc. functionality. Instead of having to pay $300 for a game system and $2000 for a computer - why not simply create a $150 hardware and software combo to allow your Gamecube/playstation/dreamcast/nes/whatever to be a wordprocessor for kids to use in school.
Just an idea I had for a while...
-RickTheWizKid
Re:That's why they're not bringing it to the US (Score:2)
(That said, reading lots of text from your TV will probably give you a headache.)
Re:That's why they're not bringing it to the US (Score:1)
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:2)
and it won't (or shouldn't) allow you to play a GC game on a standard sized disk.
As far as Nintendo being unhappy about it, I'm fairly certain they'd be all over Panasonic's tukus in the legal arena if this wasn't a joint effort.
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:1)
3" cd-r's are only capable of holding 180-220mb each. Now what you really want are 3" dvd-r's.. I haven't seen them out though, but if they are.. they should hold the 1.5gb that the GC's 3" dvd's do.
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:2)
Actually they aren't harder to come by. 3cm disks are popping up because OF the GC and portable mp3 players using the smaller discs.
I've heard rumors that the GC actually has a new way of reading the games so that you can't actually copy them [or copied ones are garbage?] but this type of effort is usually futile as someone will crack it.
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:1)
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:1)
So, the 3" platters that the GameCube expects may indeed be "hard to come by."
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:1)
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:1)
Re:Anti-Piracy??? (Score:2, Informative)
Might work... (Score:2, Insightful)
Besides the obvious (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Cable/SatTV decoding
2) mp3/mpeg/avi/etc. player
3) tivo capabilities
what you basically have is an inexpensive all in wonder unit. now i dont know the true specs of a gamecube, but if you could drop a hackable os onto it, you already have a media reader and storage capabilities (options) built in.
people with a little expertise should start taking advantage of the big opportunities game companies are dumping into their laps.
Re:Besides the obvious (Score:1, Troll)
As a representative of ATI, I must demand that you immediately desist in your use of my company's trademark. That is all.
Re:Besides the obvious (Score:2)
1) No DVDs
2) No Games
3) No Cable Box
4) No MP3s
5) No watching recorded TV shows
I hate convergence. I like all my devices seperate, so when the one with the most moving parts dies first, I've still got all the rest.
The page is nearly all graphics, no information. (Score:2)
That said, would anyone mind filling us in on exactly why we need something to emulate a gamecube? I don't know how they could pay royalties and produce these puppies at a margin well enough to justify its development.
Cash cow for Sony? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to mention they get to milk more money out of their old games.
-Pete
Lik-Sang had this apart a while ago.. (Score:1)
Too late? (Score:5, Interesting)
I was favoring the NGC, due to its 4-player capability out of the box(yes I know they others do with silly-ass dongles). However, when I heard that it wouldn't play full-sized DVDs, I was in a quandry - should I wait for the Panasonic player, or should I go with one of the other boxen?
I don't like the Xbox because of who makes it (and it is an acceptable gaming system), and Sony could have stomped the competition by dropping the price of the PS2, sy, by $50, or adding some extras and keeping the price the same, but why they didn't is beyond me.
Many of my officemates have PS2s, and one friend has an Xbox, and another has a PS2.
In the end, I chose to do nothing but wait.
I don't need another PC - I already have a homebuilt kickass system that does everything I need a computer to do. I don't care if you can get it to run Linux (see above).
I want a system to have fun with when I have a bunch of friends over who don't want to stare at their own screens. We already do multiplayer gaming, but with boards, dice, tokens and cards. Occasionally we want something else, and a 4-player gaming system fits the bill quite nicely.
Maybe someone here'll enlighten me on which one to get?
Re:Too late? (Score:1)
I don't know who told you that Xbox doesn't do 4 player out of the box because it does or else I'm seeing things
http://www.xbox.com/cms/images/system/xboxvideo
GC is the answer (Score:1)
Re:GC is the answer (Score:2)
Although I'd go with the Sega Dreamcast... better than PS2 [ok it doesn't play dvds], cheaper, cool games, lots of Multiplayer fun, and it can play mp3s and more!
See:
http://www.dcemulation.com
Re:GC is the answer (Score:1)
I have Dreamcast, and love it. I would have to disagree with you on one point tho. The games. Don't get me wrong there are quite a few really great games (crazy taxi, ecco, soul calibre, et al). With Bleem you can play Gran Turismo 2, Tekken3, and MetalGear? on DC. But once you get the top 10 or 20, you start running out of options. I've rented scores of games that were only good for 10 min of play. Some games are real crap (rainbow6 on DC made me want to break the controller in half).
Also, I believe you can only play mp3s (or run linux or MAME emulators, or anything you have to boot from CD for) on Pre-Oct-2000 units. I found one in summer 2001, so maybe they're still around, but I slightly doubt it.
Re:GC is the answer (Score:2)
Why buy them new?
Actually there are several MP3 proprietary players [Pelican AMP] which will boot on any DC. I don't know if they can use the CDR's though.
A simple twist of a screw gives you CDRW playback though.
Re:GC is the answer (Score:1)
Do you have no shops around you that buy old games/systems and sell them back?? I can go out rith now and pick up one of those units for $25 and not have to hunt
Re:GC is the answer (Score:1)
Re:Too late? (Score:1)
Nintendo seems to have really raunchy business policies. Suing people, compromising design decisions to protect license fees, etc.
X-Box is ...well... Microsoft.
The PS2 plays PS1 games. This alone is such a novel thing in the video-game market that I want to vote with my dollars for them. And they seem to be more welcoming to developers. And they seem to be prepared to make the PS2 integrate with the rest of the entertainment system and with a home network.
Re:Too late? (Score:1)
I don't know about Sony, but don't they make you buy the remote there too? If so, it might be very similar to the way M$ does it then..
The GC saves some money by not having dvd playback.. that's a given. But also, the Panasonic unit is a little more expensive than it otherwise would be, because it has dvd playback. Then again, what would the point be.. if you got a panasonic unit without dvd playback?
.
Re:Too late? (Score:1)
Personally, I've already got a perfectly good player (it should be noted that PS2 can't outperform even the cheapest of cheap standalone players) for watching my DVD collection; I want to buy a console, and the Gamecube suits my needs best.
Re:Go with GCN and an external DVD player (Score:2, Informative)
So one nice thing about multi-function devices is that you eliminate a lot of extra wiring.
Re:Too late? (Score:2)
Partial Mirror (Score:1)
Front Page [upnix.com]
Just the pictures [upnix.com]
got one (Score:1, Informative)
The Panasonic Q is going to be... (Score:2, Insightful)
Nintendo made an excellent decision as far as anti-piracy goes with the disc size. I personally love them. I have a feeling that the majority of Q purchases are going to be for the purpose of pirating the games in the near future.
Because of the price of the Q, I don't see piracy becomming a big deal. We know that there must be some heavy profit on each Q sold. This is probably to offset the potential piracy that Nintendo expects to occur.
The only reason we even see a Panasonic Q is because Panasonic probably cut Nintendo a deal on the drives that are in every GameCube.
It does Dolby Digital 5.1 DTS (Score:1)
Re:It does Dolby Digital 5.1 DTS (Score:1)
The XBOX can.
The Nintendo GameCube can't, but the Panasonic model can.
Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS - on DVDs only. (Score:2)
1) PS2 does a serviceable 5.1 DTS in game for SSX Tricky and some of the upcoming EA titles - EA has worked out with DTS how to use one of the two vector units to encode realtime in software.
2) XBox does encode DD 5.1 in hardware (best used in Halo), but that hardware doesn't support DTS (well, it _was_ developed with Dolby, so what did you expect).
3) Gamecube only supports 5.1 through the rare Dolby ProLogic II system (as used in Rogue Leader), and the game hardware has no digital out to supply either DD or DTS. If you can decode it fully though (its backwards compatible to DPL1 for reasonable surround) its pretty good; I thought it almost as good as DD 5.1 when I tried it.
The PS2, XBox and Panny Cube can all pass both DD 5.1 and DTS for DVD playback however, which seems to be the source of confusion.
Nice machine... (Score:4, Informative)
It's too bad, the idea of a shiny gamecube that can play DVDs is pretty cool. I'm also wondering if the lack of sales outside of Japan is related to piracy issues--you can fit 5.25" discs into it. One of the reasons the Gamecube uses smaller 3" discs is to prevent piracy since it's hard to get a hold of something that will make them.
Lik Sang (a company that make mod and game copying kits) also disassembled the Panasonic Gamecube [lik-sang.com] including probably better pictures. They also modified it to play US games (remove the territory lock out). They mentioned it was a bitch to open--something like 45 special screws. Doesn't sound like a fun job to modify.
Re:Nice machine... (Score:1)
Not like it's impossible for you to use recordable media in the console.. see here:
http://www.cdmedia-dvd.com/shopping/cdmedia/dvd
The only thing stopping you is that I've heard that Nintendo uses a different way of writing the data to the cd.. some kind of abnormal recording.. and you haven't cracked the protection..
This is all speaking theoretically, of course.
Besides, dvd-r drives are really expensive right now.. has anyone found them for less than $500-$600?
(btw, sorry about not linking that above, I'm not quite sure how to do that on here..)
Re:Nice machine... (Score:2, Funny)
That's okay...Japan is North America's beta testing ground...
Here's the official word (Score:2, Informative)
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011102/tc/tech_
Friday November 2 2:26 PM ET
Panasonic Says No DVD/GameCube Hybrid in U.S.
Audio/Video
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A hybrid DVD player and Nintendo (news - web sites)
GameCube video game console set for a December launch in Japan will not be
released in the United States at all, a spokesman for Panasonic said on
Friday.
Earlier this week in Tokyo, Panasonic, the consumer electronics brand of
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (6752.T), unveiled the "Q,'' which
is a combination of a DVD player and Nintendo's new console.
"It's simply a Japan device.
U.S. marketing,'' said Kurt Praschak, a Panasonic spokesman.
The GameCube itself uses a smaller disc than the standard DVD format and is
unable to play DVDs. The two companies announced earlier this year that
Panasonic would produce its own unit with licensed GameCube technology.
Panasonic plans to sell the device from Dec. 14 in Japan for the equivalent
of around $325.
The two main competitors to the GameCube in the U.S. console market, the
Microsoft Corp. (Nasdaq:MSFT - news) Xbox (news - web sites) and the Sony
Corp (news - web sites). (6758.T) PlayStation 2 (news - web sites), both can
play DVDs.
The GameCube will launch on Nov. 18 at a retail price of $199. The Xbox
launches on Nov. 15 at $299. The PS2, which launched in the U.S. in November
2000, also sells for $299.
Nintendo has said repeatedly in the past that its hardware is secondary to
its games, and that it is not concerned with putting features like DVD
playback in its devices.
A Nintendo spokesman said he was unaware if there were any licensing
restriction in Panasonic's deal with Nintendo that would keep the "Q'' from
being released in the United States.
Anti Piracy my ass... (Score:1)
How different is the small format , since their written from the inside out couldnt you cut down a DVDR after its burnt , or better yet interface a full size dvd
Ant Piracy will last all of about 6 weeks with this, Its a fact, hell the harder they make it the more of a challenge it is, the more succeptible to hardcore crackers trying to find a way around it.
Re:Anti Piracy my ass... (Score:1)
THERE ARE ALREADY CONVERTED Q consoles for sale on Ebay....
USA/JP game ready...
STRIKE 6 WEEKS
INSERT 6 MINUTES
So much for anti piracy, since the JP are full sized
Comparison between regular GC... (Score:2, Insightful)
More pictures to drool over (Score:5, Informative)
2 [coremagazine.com]
3 [coremagazine.com]
4 [coremagazine.com]
5 [coremagazine.com]
6 [coremagazine.com]
7 [coremagazine.com]
8 [coremagazine.com]
9 [coremagazine.com]
10 [coremagazine.com]
11 [coremagazine.com]
12 [coremagazine.com]
13 [coremagazine.com]
14 [coremagazine.com]
Re:More pictures to drool over (Score:1)
It's like some demented engineer had a skewed vision of what "user friendly" means.
I suppose another good reason would be that I already have a gamecube and a DVD-player. And sometimes it's nice to run the two of those at the same time just because I can.
Consoles lose money? (Score:1)
Huh? (Score:1)
Several issues to clear up. (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, there *IS* a relationship between Panasonic and Nintendo. So to the guy that said Nintendo wouldn't be happy about it, you're wrong. They're very happy about it. Afterall, Panasonic makes the drives the NGC uses. (I think Panasonic also has a hand in the proprietary DVD-like format the cute little 3" discs use!)
Secondly, all things point to the 'Q' *NOT* coming to North America. Single biggest reason. Piracy. I doubt anyone can (at this moment) get there hands on DVD-like 3" media!
Finally, to the dude contemplating what to get. I personally have a PS2 and picked up my NGC at launch. I don't think this is true for the rest of the
Anyways, hope that helps someone. Anyone!
Re:Several issues to clear up. (Score:1)
People think it is Kiddy.
Although Nintendo's big cash cow is the 5-13 year old Pokemon crowd, that fad is nearly gone.
Let's remember these are video games, and they are supposed to be kiddy and fun.
Super Mario Brothers 3 is a game I still play, to this day! As is the original Donkey Kong. Sure, it's cartoony, no photo-realism, no blood and gore.
Doesn't matter, they're fun.
I for one, think games should be fun, and not super realism. There are exceptions, like Flight Simulators.
There are some VERY cool games coming out for the GameCube. Remember other Nintendo classics such as Metroid?
Re:Several issues to clear up. (Score:1)
This article [google.com] has a pretty good run-down of some major innovations by nintendo, including the standardization of analog controls and rumble features, the introduction of the big-headed racing game genre (Mario Kart), and the digital boardgame (Mario Party), all of which have been extensively copied by competitors at this point.
The amount of games on PS2 doesn't really impress me either (after all, I can't buy them ALL). Sure, PS2 has 50 racing titles for every 1 on gamecube, but I'll take one great game like Mario Kart over 50 mediocre racers.
Re:Several issues to clear up. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes and no. I agree that reducing piracy is important. I disagree, however, that proprietary formats are 100% good. Projects such as porting FreeBSD to the Dreamcast and creating homebrew PSX games are predicated on being able to create media that is runnable by the machine.
Unfortunately, "hacker friendly" (in the traditional, non-negative sense) is always going to be somewhat synonymous with "pirate friendly". Even worse, a game console has little incentive to promote a hacker friendly system but a very large incentive to block a pirate friendly one.
Piracy (Score:2, Informative)
GameCube games have a visible security thread on the inside ring of the minidisc that is checked by the system before it boots, good luck trying to duplicate it with any kind of burner.
just me.. (Score:2)
It is interesting how it switches modes instead of the gamecube recognizing that the dvd is not a game and automatically popping up a cool menu much like other systems do when you put in an audio cd..
Re:Yes, but can it compete with the XBOX? (Score:1)
Though it never fared too well in the states, the TG16(PC Engine) was the most popular console in Japan for a long time, and its got a lot of fantastic games if you can find them.
If you're gonna make a joke about an older system try the Saturn
Re:Yes, but can it compete with the XBOX? (Score:2)
And Halo (the flagship launch title) struck me as extremely mediocre. It certainly looked pretty but the gameplay itself stuck me as tedious and repetitive with the gamepad not helping at all. Give me Quake or Wolfenstein anyday.
Compared to the other platforms, perhaps it has more potential but then it costs a lot more. The Gamecube is dirt cheap in comparison and the PS/2 has thousands of titles to choose from.
If I were seriously looking to buy a console I think the XBox would be my 3rd choice by a long stretch at the moment.
Re:Yes, but can it compete with the XBOX? (Score:2)
Just 'cause you're a politician doesn't mean you can make crap up to benefit Micro$oft. Oh wait...
Re:Yes, but can it compete with the XBOX? (Score:2)
The DVD playback of the Ps2 and the Xbox are to qoute Widescreen magagine.. "horrible, barely VHS quality."
These 2 devices are designed to be GAME CONSOLES. they have a side benefit of playing DVD movies to further entice people to buy it. College student with $300.00 to blow... Buy a dvd player and then a game or hey, I can get _____ that also play's dvd's!
Every review I have read about the PS2 and Xbox dvd playback has been very negative.
Re:Yes, but can it compete with the XBOX? (Score:2)
Ignore me, I'm stupid (Score:2)
Here you go: (Score:2)
Also check www.lik-sang.com [lik-sang.com] for the details.