Pay to Play II - Project Entropia 225
Gonzago writes: "God knows how many hours I spent mining or chopping down trees while playing Ultima Online. The dedication (spelled a-d-d-i-c-t-i-o-n) I had to that game would have made me some serious cash if I applied it to a real life job. Now I can have my cake and eat it too! At least that's what the people behind Project Entropia would have me believe. Not only does the premise behind the game look cool, but players will trade amongst one another with real money. Anyone want to buy some armor?" There's an article on CNN which briefly covers the game's premise: pay the company for all the equipment you need in-game, and it all slowly degrades - Entropia, get it?
Recursion? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Recursion? (Score:1, Funny)
Sounds Like a Movie Script! (Score:2)
Project Extropia? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Project Extropia? (Score:2)
I came to a similar conclusion, which is why I gave up beta testing the game. The idea simply isn't going to make a fun game. It seems to be designed to constantly suck money out of your pockets if you want to have any fun with it. Especially if you aren't willing to dedicate the vast majority of your spare (and perhaps not so spare) time to the game.
Re:Recursion? (Score:2, Informative)
Ya, that was a great movie. Existenz [imdb.com], right? I admit that it's hard to get past that opening quote though: "Jennifer Jason Leigh stars as a computer programmer".
She actually did remarkably well, if you ask me.
Re:Recursion? (Score:2)
Re:Recursion? (Score:1, Redundant)
Oops (Score:3, Informative)
Selling virtual items in-game was pioneered by this text based MUD [medievia.com], which is financed entirely by sales of virtual items to players.
And since we're talking about "virtual addiction", take a look at their MUD Addiction Page [medievia.com]. Now substitute the word "play" for the words "get high", and read it again. Scary, isn't it?
Re:Oops (Score:2, Insightful)
As far as I can tell, all the other RPG's out there get there resources from pure virtual space. As more players join, more 'stuff' gets made available. Tying it to real money coming in is interesting.. I'd join just to watch how it all unfolds.
Re:Oops (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, this new Entropia project gets to write their own license, assuming they're not basing their code on one of the many fine free mud codebases (where your equipment might degrade through use, but not due to economic externalities!)
Re:Oops (Score:2, Interesting)
It's IP theft, plain and simple. They've tried to remove all Diku code by reverse engineering it from scratch, and after 10 years, they've nearly succeeded. Make of that what you will.
Re:Oops (Score:3, Informative)
They've been criticized for years for that policy; they're based on DikuMUD code, which is a pretty open license. You're just not supposed to remove the original authors credits from the login screen, or charge money for playing the MUD. Medievia did both.
The whole thing is sort of like the Magic card game in my mind; rather than give everyone an equal playing field, they let those with more money buy their way to success.
Who wants to bet the frequency of good equipment appearing in the game naturally will be reduced if their profits slip...
Re:Oops (Score:1)
Re:Oops (Score:2)
Re:Oops (Score:1)
Interesting. Can one successfully sue someone for violating a license even if that individual hasn't suffered a monetary loss?
Re:Oops (Score:2)
Re:Oops (Score:1)
Which is why there were sealed deck tournaments. After paying the signup fee(same for all players regardless of skill obviously), all players would recieve a starter deck and some booster packs. They would open them, then pass those to another person(so no one could cheat by replacing the booster pack with their own cards). Then they would design a deck with the cards given to them and play in the tournament with that deck(a certain number of lands would be given to those people who needed them).
You lying fool! (Score:2)
will you wont you will you wont you will you wont (Score:2)
What does the "will of the editors" have to do with anything. They just want to make it easier for serious readers to filter out crap from people like you. But if you post non-crap, that confuses the whole issue. THIS IS NOT FAIR
Re:will you wont you will you wont you will you wo (Score:2)
Oh well, no biggie. I have discovered this secret feature of Slashdot. All you have to do is post comments that people actually want to read and you get modded up! So any time I lose karma points, I just use this cheat and I'm soon back at 50! Clever, huh?
Re:You lying fool! (Score:1, Offtopic)
[slashdot.org] here's a hint, they are [goatse.cx]
Re:Oops (Score:2)
So someone figured out... (Score:1, Interesting)
And Prostitutes? (Score:5, Funny)
With the conversion being 10:1, and assuming the currencies don't fluctuate that means time with a prostitute will actually be attainable for me on a regular basis! Although, I don't know if I like the idea of her pimp DoS'ing me when I try to run off...
Alms for an ex-leper? (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like a perfect plan (Score:1)
only problem with this. (Score:5, Insightful)
And just think about the PK'ing that will be going on. It used to be that people PK'ed because it gave them an ego boost. Now it can almost be equated to a real life mugging.
And in UO, items would mysteriously disappear. Close up your house one day and everything's there, then a server crash, come back in, its all gone. When frustrating things like this happen in a game where everything is virtual, about the most I can expect is to quit and deprive them of their $10 a month. But if I invested serious money in such a project and suddenly its all gone, that could be a serious problem.
To be ultimately viable, the company, however it works, has to somehow produce something, in such a way that they end up with more worth than what was put into it. I don't see this happening really, and at some point, when things peak out, there will be a falloff of revenue and things will slowly lose value and degrade.
However, if players can earn in-game dollars by completely real world tasks, then this could ultimately be a really cool way to offset employees. Instead of hiring employees, you have people play your game, and do your work in exchange for the privilage of playing. Think of all the source code projects you could crank out by gamers trying to one-up their in-game adversaries. There might be some potential here.
-Restil
2 more problems - taxes and micro payments (Score:1, Interesting)
And you're collecting small payments mucho times. Think quarters for the parking meters, the populace hates micro payments.
Re:2 more problems - taxes and micro payments (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know... (Score:3, Interesting)
Cheating (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Cheating (Score:1, Informative)
with on of the developers.
Since players will be able to purchase items, how will cheating be dealt with, since it could involve real money?
We will do everything in our power to prevent cheating in Project Entropia. We have already constructed a system to prevent this. In the case of somebody still being able to cheat, we will close their account and engage legal proceedings against these persons in real life.
Re:Cheating (Score:2, Interesting)
Isn't that what software pirating already is?
of course the real question is... (Score:1)
Are they going to charge for the game itself?
they make money how? (Score:2, Interesting)
and they plan on making money on this how?
you invest $100 bucks in the game and then after one month they go bankrupt.
where is the profit plan in this?
Re:they make money how? (Score:2)
Re:they make money how? (Score:1)
Everything a player wants can be purchased from MindArk
I assume they will make money from people buying that new 3l33t piece of armour..
I know if I was playing it tho, that i would rather spend a few hours killing stuff rather than spending hard cash on stuff.
Humor - Didn't "Casino" do this with CHIPS? (Score:4, Insightful)
But the house always wins ...
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]
Unbalanced game play (Score:3, Interesting)
These kind of personalities have kept out of games like this traditionally because they did not have the personality and patience to develop a character of sufficient power to be a threat to other players. With this system it just comes down to a matter of cash, and those type of people alwasy seem to have cash.
My prediction is that this game will fail not based on game play but on the fact that most players will give up on it quickly as they become frustrated by the less socially adapted version of script kiddies that are let loose on them. While high cash players will make the game look good, it will still take 100,000 paying monthly customers. If a small percentage drive the rest off because of the type of people they are, and because they are to powerfull to be ignored, then the whole system will collapse.
Re:Unbalanced game play (Score:1)
Experience Points (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, it's not perfect, but the idea of a kiddie blindly firing his shiny new BFG-9000 amuses me...
I'd also make the really cool toys *really* expensive. Want that BFG? $100, please. Top-of-the-line armor? Another $75. Don't price things linearly. Well, maybe that's a bit much, but you get the idea.
I'll continue avoiding MMTSs (Massive Multiplayer Time Sinks) regardless...
This type of thing could be dispensed with (Score:2)
The rich have power in real life, but what keeps people from going around killing people in masses? (Answer: sometimes they do, but I'm not interested in Rwanda:MMORPG).
The reasons are manifold. One reaon is that all of us are fundamentally vulnerable. We all have to sleep, eat, and sometimes trust other people. Plenty of places for you to get dry-gulched and brought low if you're some sort of super dude killer badass.
Another reason is that modern weapons make even the peons dangerous. You're a super SF dude who knows Chop Sockey and can fire a Bushmaster one-handed? Jee.... I'm just a dork with a
Another reason is that communities and laws exist. If you were to structure a game with laws and a justice system and you had people paid to enforce laws against murder, arson, looting, robbery etc (police, bounty hunters, the army), then you'd end up with a more "real" environment. You'd end up with an environment where thinking, hard work, and innovation paid off. Rather than cheesiness, gamerism, and maybe some cheatbots.
When the natural checks and balances that exist in our own world (the mortality of normal humans, the legal and institutional frameworks) are exempted while other parts of the game world start to approach reality, you get an odd and (to my mind) unfun imbalance.
On the old Zanzibar MUD, I recall the Dark Reavers having a guild. It had a community idea where if anyone from another guild PK'd one Reaver, they got payback from the others. Turns out one of the best thieves in the game PK'd my buddy's low level Reaver. A month later, he ran into a high level Reaver somewhere who mentioned said high level thief had "got his" in payback. this kind of "gang" based situation can be one effective check on PKing.
Anyway, I certainly won't be participating in a scheme designed to print money for the company who provides the service (pay close attention, Mr. Gates). I did that once (Wallets of the Coast took far too much of my money) and it was no fun then and (like sour milk put back in the fridge) isn't likely to be any better now.....
playing this game for income (Score:5, Interesting)
1. If this game caught on, it may be possible to earn an actual income from this game...
2. If you were earning an income from this game, how would you report it on your income tax?
Re:playing this game for income (Score:1)
Allready possible (Score:2, Interesting)
It is *allready* possible, the value for credits in Everquest (credits==currency in the Everquest economy) on Ebay, is better than the value of many third world countries.
I personally know a few people who have been able to make several thousands of dollars a month off "farming" items in game. Of course if they actually calculated how much time they spent doing it (far more than a typical 8 hour day at an office), it wouldn't seem all that special to the typical middle class American...but to someone in a economically challenged area or country, it could feasibly be a serious windfall to them!
I've been following this for some time (Score:5, Informative)
A couple of months back I received an email from the beta mailing list stating that they were going public with a "commercial beta test". This test would entail everyone paying in $10 to help test the ability of their servers to handle the financial transactions. This sounded quite contrary to their statements that there would be no need to put any money into the system. Here's a copy of the email:
Dear Sir/ Madam You have previously registered your interest to be a Beta tester for Project Entropia. MindArk is now preparing to start the commercial trial phase. An expanded panel of users will be selected to participate in the trials. Those are in the addition to the users that are already in the Beta phase II.
The commercial trial phase will include many of the planned features of the finished product. One of which is the financial system that has been creating ripple effects far beyond the MMORPG market. This financial system will be designed around real money exchanged into a virtual currency. Giving users a chance of actually make real money while inside the Project Entropia Virtual Universe.
Project Entropia will be free to obtain and use, only your connection fee to the Internet will cost you anything, there will be no monthly fees payable to MindArk. The fact that real money will be an issue in Project Entropia requires us to test this system to its full extent. This is why we are searching for users who are willing to insert small amounts of money in exchange for the chance to make much more.
In addition to the funds inserted into Project Entropia, MindArk will add funds to the Virtual World; an excess of 100.000 USD will be available for users to claim inside Project Entropia. This is a first in history; you can actually make a small fortune and at the same time be one of the first to explore Project Entropia.
The transfers are necessary for testing mass transaction flows through the system servers. And will help us track funds through the entire system, this is necessary to ensure that the system is fully functional when we head into the open phase. To achieve this, we elect to create a system where an avid user stands a fairly good chance of making a small fortune by testing this product.
Note that the transfer requirements does not constitute a change of the original specifications, Project Entropia will be free to obtain and use, according to everything that has been stated previously, nothing has changed on that point. This fee is only imposed to test the systems handling real money transactions. Without these tests we would have no chance of providing the service of real money transfers safely.
If you are interested in participating in these trials, you have to follow the link below. You will not be required to pay anything at this point. You only have to agree to the rules stated for a commercial trial participation. http://www.project-entropia.com/phase3/firstpage.
Kind Regards.
Erik Johnels Mindark AB
Note that they state in the email that they aren't going back on their word; this deposit is merely part of a test to see if their servers can handle the transactions.
After getting my hopes dashed by another MMORPG in the making (DAWN, which turned out to be complete vaporware) I was sceptical about the reality of Project Entropia...more so after they asked for money to participate in a beta. I went to their IRC channel to see if I could find anything out about previous betas, but all beta testers must abide by a strict non-disclosure policy which even prohibits them from saying they're in the beta (sounds a little too convenient). A lot of the talk in IRC was people planning their Project Entropia pyramid schemes.
Something tells me that this is simply a petty scam.
Re:I've been following this for some time (Score:1)
It seems to me that this will count as a "game of chance" (and rightly so) with the consequence that it will be either completely illegal or requiring special licenses in many countries.
Worthless trivia. (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, I've been to their offices. I applied for a job as a programmer there -- which I was then offered (first assignment; work on the GUI) -- but turned down because I felt that it was way too uncertain (aka 'doomed').
So, I can confirm that the game does indeed exist, or at least, that a game was being developed about a year ago. :-)
Anyway, the irony is that the offer I took instead lead to me being laid off just recently, so according to Murhpy's Law I guess P:Entropia will go on to be very successful, and I will sit here like a bitter man wondering, why oh why didn't I go there instead.
Re:Worthless trivia. (Score:2)
Heh. The game will crash and burn. Most likely the end will involve lawsuits too. The whole idea behind the game seems half-baked.
Re:Worthless trivia. (Score:1)
Yeah, that'd be my guess too. It's just one big exploit waiting to happen.
I remember before Diablo 2 was released, when the fanboys in the newsgroups would proclaim how the vault characters would mean the end of cheating(TM>).
Yeah, that brought me a good chuckle, right there.
Re:I've been following this for some time (Score:1)
I just hope it's not required in the final version to put in money since that would stop many players from playing.
Re:I've been following this for some time (Score:1)
Going broke anyone? (Score:1, Redundant)
Utilities: "For failing to pay your bill, we're cutting the power to your house now."
RPGer: "But I've sent in 1000 PEDs each month!"
<lights go out>
Virtual lock-in? (Score:3, Interesting)
-Extremely expensive stuff that decays rapidly but that the most addicted "must" have.
-Pushing the prices to the very limit of what people are willing to pay, we're talking monopoly here.
-Extremely little stuff you'll get any real money for (Bronze sword 10 PED, Giant-über-leet sword of Doom 10000 PED? Don't think so. prices will have to be much more uniform.)
Personally I don't like the idea of a company setting the value of the equipment. It's virtual world communism (all is controlled by the "state", in this case the company running the world), and I don't think it'll fly.
Kjella
Re:Virtual lock-in? (Score:1)
Where they've always wanted to be, I suppose.
Sheesh, whatever happened to making a game and selling it? $17 billion/year wasn't enough I guess.
sigh...
Re:Virtual lock-in? (Score:2)
Uh, it said quite clearly in the CNN article that players would be free to sell items among each other. Doesn't quite sound like everything is controlled by the "state".
Re:Virtual lock-in? (Score:1)
Blargh! Where's the game balance? (Score:1)
However, what about game balance? I suppose trying to have balance in a MMORPG is a very tricky subject, but come on! It's bad enough when it's unsanctioned, cuts down on the number of people willing to buy and sell in real life. But when the game specifically allows buying eq with real money? Yeesh. Perhaps it will be fun for a little while...
And what happens when mommy find out that little Timmy's been using her Gold Card? (Bad Timmy, Bad!)
you can make money unofficially lots of places (Score:1)
You can still sell items and game cash in several other games like Diablo 2 and Dark Age of Camelot. I guess the innovation in Entropy is that the monetary conversion is actually sponsored by the company, but practically this is nothing new.
I wouldn't play (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would I play a game that was just the same?
I'm happy to pay to play online games, but I really don't see how a game where the amount of money you have IRL directly affects your status in play could possibly be fun.
- Muggins the Mad
Laibility (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course it is not a good idea to rely on the game for your income, but there will be people that will do this, and they will complain loudly when problems arise.
I don't see how any lawyer would allow this - the liability is too great.
Re:Laibility (Score:2)
Allow?
--Blair
Re:Laibility (Score:1)
Re:Laibility (Score:2)
"Don't play this game because they lost my account and made me miss my mortgage payment..."
That sort of thing is quite likely to happen, and would become a huge problem.
System Requirements not on the site, read IRC log. (Score:2, Interesting)
channel! If you need help, talk to one of the operators that is
present.
-InfoBot(drop@gw01.outer.se.gamenet)- Beta testers, please mind the NDA, no
beta talk in this channel.
<Quazion> Hello, after reading the website and not finding the System
requirements, i figure lets have a look on there IRC server.
<Quazion> anyone who can tell me anything on the sys requirements ?
<Jem|SoF> there are none set up
<Quazion> And why i am asking this is cause i want to know on which OS
platforms it will run.
<Jem|SoF> just tell what kind you have when you sign up for beta
<Quazion> I am not giving away my personal information if i dont even know if
it will run on my computer.
<Jem|SoF> hang on I"m on phone
<Fiyz> thats your problem quazion
<E_J|MA> Windows
<Jem|SoF> WOOHOO
<Jem|SoF> HI
<Jem|SoF> eJ
<Fiyz> lol e_j spoke his short words
<Fiyz> hes AWAY now jem
<Quazion> Fiys, isnt it normal to tell upfront, and it isnt my problem its
just one less user i guess.
<E_J|MA|AWAY> sortof...
[Users(#project-entropia:30)]
[ Quazion ] [ Feroce ] [ Jem|SoF ] [ Supadude|S] [ Max-Damage]
[ AlornenAFK] [ haywire ] [ Gonzago|ED] [ Azur ] [ Viper|FWR ]
[ Fiyz ] [ Lawryus|UP] [ Riposte ] [ TooBorg|So] [ AzHippy|al]
[ Rebellion ] [ vip ] [ Zanuff ] [ balu ] [ AwayELLER ]
[ coin|MA|aw] [@BARADDA|MA] [ Small ] [ CryHavok ] [@bornie|MA ]
[@E_J|MA|AWA] [ kevinvee ] [@DROK|MA|aw] [@InfoBot ] [@ChanServ ]
<Fiyz> uh you saying its not normal to tell your comp info for a beta sign up?
<Quazion> E_J|MA|AWAY you can confirm windows only ?
<Jem|SoF> he did
<Quazion> just double checking
<E_J|MA|AWAY> At first windows only.
<Fiyz> how bout Lindows?
<Jem|SoF> yes you do tell what kind of computer you have
<E_J|MA|AWAY> we ARE looking at porting it to LINUX. but that is WAY down the
road.
<Quazion> E_J|MA|AWAY thanks for the information.
<E_J|MA|AWAY> NP
<Quazion> And yes i am running Linux
<Fiyz> you should make it for Lindows
<Jem|SoF> HI E_J
works for magic the gathering (tm) (Score:1)
bah (Score:5, Funny)
That's nothing; I had a 9-to-5 job driving a forklift on Shenmue [shenmue.com]. I even had to freaking COMMUTE. Only people who've finished this game will understand the flashbacks I get when I see a forklift irl...
My first thought was... (Score:1, Insightful)
Seriously, how many are going to think the same?
The Sims? (Score:1)
Some virtual economys GDP higher than IRL (Score:1)
Personally I cant wait to get a job as a gnome slayer in some virtual world *chuckle*. Beats my current bug slaying job any day.
Re:Some virtual economys GDP higher than IRL (Score:1, Insightful)
I've seen this general statement before, and its pretty meaningless. If some item has value, it is probably larger than the base currency of some country. It only really becomes interesting if there are like a trillion platinum in existence, in which case the total value of platinums would be on the order of magnitude of that of a country.
As it stands, the current market for everquest stuff is probably at most on the order of hundreds of thousands each year. That is puny when compared to a country.
K-Mart might be able to print gift certificates worth $50, but that doesn't make them fifty times more powerful economically than the US.
(/rant)
Re:Some virtual economys GDP higher than IRL (Score:1)
Re:Some virtual economys GDP higher than IRL (Score:1)
That's sorta why I picked them to demonstrate my point.
The important question... (Score:1)
Can I rob a virtual bank? (Score:1)
No.
Well okay, if you do manage to rob the in-game bank, they will send the off-game cops to your door and bring you into an off-game courtroom for fraud.
/ Per
Re:Can I rob a virtual bank? (Score:1)
The URLs ..... to their site (Score:1)
So basically... (Score:3, Funny)
$500,000 Supreme totalarian command of medium-large nation.
$250,000 Weapons of mass destruction 10 years ahead of any other developing nation.
$100,000 Impressive cadre of NPC's, minus ethical/moral scripting.
$79.95 Fascist uniform design and tailoring.
$999.95 K-line authority for up to 50 standard subscribers per month.
$4995.95 Immunity from TOS, including all harassment, cruelty and anti-social policies.
FREE "I'm not God, even though I play one on Entropia MMPOG."
The fights will be tremendous (Score:1, Interesting)
Adding real money to the mix will make those fights look like spitballs vs nuclear weapons.
The House always wins! (Score:1)
-B
UO versus Everquest on this issue (Score:1, Redundant)
One steady economy that arose on UO was lumber and ingot supply. Due to the skill point cap, Bowyers/tinkers/armourers/weaponsmmiths didn't want to also use up skill points for mining/lumberjacking since that would restrict them from learning combat skills. To fill this void, lumberjacks and miners sprung up selling lumber and ingots on eBay. They can pretty much make a living at it if they can drum up some loyal consumers (by being always ready to supply goods to satisfy their demand and being honest) to keep a steady flow of goods.
Do a search on eBay ... I think that a lot of people would be suprised to see how much of this sort of thing goes on day to day.
I worked on Project: Entropia (Score:5, Interesting)
From January to September of 2001 I was employed by MindArk AB in Gothenburg, Sweden, doing some of the game design work, especially bunches of scripting in an odd in-house OO language they made up themselves so that even the designers could produce useful code. ..which, I suppose, in essense means that there were no designers... but I suppose I had better take care what I say about my former employer lest they sue me or something.
Not that I'm really afraid they would, 'cause I would sue them right back. I didn't particularily enjoy working at MindArk. Oh, the people were nice, especially the ones that got fired whenever some high-up thought they looked too scruffy from working overnights. Whoops, there I go with the legally flammable stuff again. Thing is, MindArk like firing people who get sick and stay at home to take care of themselves. This might sound natural and reasonable to some of our US readers, but here it's illegal practice. Here in Sweden a company is legally bound to monitor the health of employees, because if they don't, they can be forced to pay for work-related damages. If they DO monitor health, dealing with sickness is a paid by the state, so there's no cost attached.
MindArk doesn't like doing things by the book though. One co-worker was fired for working over night, bumming out on the couch when the brass came to visit. Nevermind the fact that he just got the community forum online, that was apparently secondary. Then there's me, who originally was proud enough to think that I was (also illegaly) fired for being too critical.. turns out I had had one flu too many (no, I don't drink). After that, I also heard that the most driven of the artists got fired, and the effect these kinds of things have on co-workers.. well, I don't have to tell you, do I?
But I suppose most of you want to know about THE GAME, right? Well, that's where I don't want to go. I probably can't say jack squat about the game. If I did, I'd better play some Frank Black "Men In Black" real loud and hope they mistake me for one of them when they come knocking speaking in legalese.
However, I'm a clever guy.. what I can't say I can still insinuate, so read carefully between the lines here. I may only have 4 years of experience in the business, and granted that P:E was my first and only MMORPG, and the work I did was partially generic sound system design and partially extremely high-level theoretic community system design (that I doubt anyone will read my documentation for, or implement my classes for) but ..did you see the guy here on /. who said that the NDA "sounds a little too convenient"? Have you noticed how few have ever even seen the game? I've seen it. Eddy [slashdot.org] has seen it, so it does exist.. but how come nobody has really played it and told us about it yet? I can't answer that because I would get sued. I can't suggest an answer to that. Too bad because I could probably have told the lot of you a bunch of interesting stuff.
What I think I am allowed to say however, is that I will not be playing Project: Entropia. Maybe nobody ever will. Maybe I already said too much.
/ Per
Re:I doubt that your information is correct. (Score:2)
You're not nordic, are you? We don't sue eachother every other day, like the 'merikkkans.
I can vouch for the fact that he worked at Mindark.
Possible problems with this system (Score:1, Interesting)
One of the problems I forsee is that MMOs have a tendency to "change the rules" as time goes on. Without a well established manner of determining certain game behavior (weapon/armor/combat interactions, etc.), you invite LOTS of people to bitch whenever the rules are changed. In all MMOs that I know of, combat/armor/weapon rules change to promote game balance. Imagine how pissed people will be when the Leet Sword of Lesser Monster Slaying they just bought with REAL MONEY gets nerfed.
Some site did this. . . . (Score:2, Informative)
Basicaly it was like this.
Say a 4 player game.
Everybody anted up 25 cents. The winner got 75 cents and the website pocketed 25 cents.
Basicaly a slight 'fee' or 'tax' is imposed on to every transaction to ensure that the company does indeed make some money.
Sure you can likely hunt down that Great Super Duber Uber Sword in the Forest Of Really Really Nasty Critters, but then after your 5 or 6 hours of work you will go into the town and sell it to some dude who is paying $5 real life for it.
The exchange rate system is likely NOT 1 to 1. A 1 :
In other words if you put $5 real life into the games currency, expect to only get $3.75 out.
That means that if you get 100units (whatever cash, I forget what it is called, read the article, no memory. ^_^ ) for $10, and you pay some dude 100units for his Super Duber Uber Armor, and that dude that withdrawls 100units from the game, he will only get $7.50 in real life cash.
::shrugs::
Company pockets $2.50 for your 5 or 6 hours of server usage (not half bad, heh) and since items are guarnteed to degrade, there is no chance of all of the system ever reaching an inert economy, there will always be money flowing in and out of the system, and with each transaction in and out of the system the company in charge of the system will be collecting a little bit of money.
Actualy having items degrade is not
In Ragnarock Online though, tons of Zeny (the games form of internal only cash) was being spent for some time on mere collectors cards (doh) that did absolutly nothing at all other then, uh, well, they actualy did absolutly nothing!
If the creators of this new game can learn how to properly manage fads and whatnot and manipulate supply and demand, they could make a FORTUNE off of these things.
Remember those electronic collectable card games that all bombed awhile back? Yah the ones that wanted you too pay money for booster packs? Heh.
If they can setup such a system within their game and actualy make it successful. . . .
Think Pokemon but with almost *ZERO* production costs.
Re: (Score:1)
Lessons from Habitat may be relevant (Score:2)
This story is my favorite:
Habitat and Project: Entropia (Score:1)
All of the game designers working at MindArk have read the Habitat Lessons, I helped them to it.
No, wait.. Correction: All of the game designers who worked at MindArk when I left there in Septeber 2001, had read it. I do not know how many of them remain and how many were replaced by recent college graduates with Delphi skills and breasts.
And no, I have nothing against women in the business, I would like more women game designers to be employed based on their skill. It's just a funny fact of life that MindArk have gone from 2 to 5 female employees [mindark.com] in less than 6 months, and all of those new recruits being in the system design area.
Why do most publishers dislike this? (Score:1)
From the CNN.com article.
Is there any truth to this? How could they possibly complain about not making any money on transactions when these are the players that would sooner go without food for a few days, rather than not paying their UO/EC bill? And as far as it detracting from the game... it's just a reflection of capitalism. Some people are willing to pay for virtual goods with their time and others, with their money. I personally play RPGs for the fun of building up my character. The entertainment is in the journey, not the destination. But the people who buy powerful characters, don't (generally) detract from my game play. So, what's the problem?
Open Source it! (Score:2)
They do not intend to sell any copy of the game itself, just the in-game money should be payed. Therefore, they don't have anything to lose from open-sourcing it.
By going open-source they could ensure that (if the game is successful enough) it would be ported to other operating systems.
After the game has a substantial number of users, they could also open the source of the server software and thus getting the development for free. Better still, they could give virtual money to code contributors (that in turn could be cashed in for real money).
OTOH, I think the decay model is not that fun, as it's not really like real life, and people won't be that eager to pay real money for something soon to decay. A better model will be having uneven exchange rates. i.e. 1$ -> 10PED, but 15PED -> 1$, thus they profit from every exchange and interest on all the money in circulation at any time.
Make Money Reselling Virtual Worlds (Score:2)
Everyone would get something out of this arrangement:
What's important here is that all these worlds are linked; that you could travel to one from the other like you travel from one country to another in realspace. (Convert your currency at the border. Certain items may not be allowed in a given world, and must be checked upon arrival. Reclaim them on your way out.)By making all the smaller worlds parts of one big game, Entropia (or whomever) could exploit network effects and firmly tip the market in their favor. The first company that begins *selling* virtual worlds to the masses is going to be the company that dominates the industry. Infrastructure is always a more appealing buy than content.
Lame idea (Score:2)
Vendors are key (Score:2, Interesting)
I imagine that in this game you will not receive any credits from looting. Only items, and that vendors will only take in a certain type of loot and then only a certain amount. (So if you found an exploit that let you get a ton of High Quality Wolf pelts you wouldn't be able to sell them all, if any.)
If you can make money from looting, and can sell anything to vendors it wont work.
TAX! What About Tax? (Score:2)
So what about local, state, and federal tax? Sales tax? When I sell somebody a super duper magic cloak, do I have to collect? Where do I send it? Do I need a business license and associated tax number?
Wonder how long before cash-strapped local and state govs will settle on this?
C heating? Taxes? Bigger problems lurk... (Score:2)
Re:poast 1? (Score:1)
Re:poast 1? (Score:1, Funny)
Maybe you could us it to Experiment first ? (Score:2)
Quazion..
Re:Maybe you could us it to Experiment first ? (Score:1)
On IRC they can do 'pretend i am 18 year old really hot girl' but you read tru 14 year olds who try to pretend. Never the less i met Really nice people and also girls in bars while playing UO and also on IRC so why not in this game ?
But i was trying to make a joke, and i see i failed again
Quazion.