

Game Park Handheld Encourages Open Development 151
DarkZero writes: "The Korean company Game Park has just started shipping their new handheld game system, called GP32. It has a USB port, internet connectivity, Wireless RF for multiplayer games, and most importantly, it stores its games on Smart Media cards and encourages open development of games by its fans. The first shipment will be available in a few days, most notably from Lik Sang, which has a lot more information about the product here and here."
Opportunity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice to see a game company that ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey, it probably shaves off their costs too.
Finally, they get it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Finally, they get it... (Score:1)
The problem, is their business model. Most companies release their system at a revenue loss, and hope to make it up in the games. If there are tons of awesome games, that people can get for free, they might have a problem selling their own.
Re:Finally, they get it... (Score:2)
(Yep, there's a few great games out there, but I'd hardly say tons. And the good games that are freely available are rarely anything like console games -- think nethack, etc.)
First come the clones (Score:1)
Man, I should buy one, especially when I have no idea if they'll have any fun games!!!
Watch five independent clones of Tetris or Nibbles or something pop up for the system three days after release. Then, once home developers are familiar with the tech, more involved games will follow. (This is the same thing that has happened with the GBA.)
Re:Yeah!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
games here [lik-sang.com].
read the links...
Sounds good to me (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry, still working on a version that supports Netscape and other browsers.
Check back later. This site works only on IE5 or Later.
Like I haven't heard that before
"Windows sucks! Open Source is good! But since everybody else uses Windows there is no point in developing for multiplatforms."
To me, that destroys the spirit of Open Source.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:2, Offtopic)
In konqueror, I just changed my User-Agent to MSIE and it worked fine.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:1)
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:1)
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:2)
Two problems that stuff up IE over here.
1) It assumes that if a page hasn't finished downloading within a certain period then it's never going to. Browsing image catalogues becomes a pain because you have to do several refreshes to get them all (the early ones are pulled out of cache), while slashdot can _really_ confuse it. Simply, the story pages are so long that it almost never renders the end of the HTML. Even worse, because this is HTML and changing all the time, it's not cached. I can't see the end of the pages...
2) It gets _really_ confused if there's too many UI widgets on a page - say, when I've got mod points. It routinely smears them over the page, misplaces them or just gives up. A couple of times I've modded the wrong commend this way. Worse, though - I mentioned above that it doesn't always render the end of the page. Which is where the submit button is. So, when I have mod points, IE and slashdot simply fight. It's unviewable but I can't use the points to make it go away.
I don't like IE, simply as I find its interface clunky. But even if they cleaned up the interface and fixed the security problems, it's far from the perfect, fautless browser.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:1)
It's nice to see a portable handheld game system that MIGHT offer some serious competition to Nintendo, finally. The price I think is a little high for it to be very successful though. IIRC the GBA is now ~$70, and available everywhere.
Hopefully they survive long enough to support a competitive price and wider distribution, along with a good game library. If they come up with a decent selection of RPGs they might just be able to carve out a nice niche even if they can never end of going toe-to-toe with Nintendo.
Any word on battery life yet?
or backlighting?
who is/are lik-sang?
...and the ever mandatory(here) any get linux up on it?
in any event, I'm still waiting for a tablet PC ala Newton with a common OS(pref not Windoze/x86) of some sort, good HWR, and all the bells and whistles(mostly) of a notebook at least, and at a notebook(or less) price. Should be feasible with 1.8" drives(no CD/DVD), PCMCIA, 802.11b, 10/100/1G ether, IrDA, USB, firewire, external video port, ~4 x 6 x 1" and possibly, the new fuel cell battery.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:2)
Lik-Sang [lik-sang.com] is a video game/console import/export company, operating out of (as far as I know) Hong Kong. They often sell weird Asian-only devices to the rest of the world. They have fairly nice prices, but in my experience the shipping that's added generally makes it hurt to buy from them. Still, they're the guys I have to thank for my Neo Geo Pocket Color, which is cool.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:2, Funny)
"99.9% of the world's population use Windows! But lets spend tons of money to engineer our site to work with the Open Source users' browsers even though they are all too cheap to buy our products!"
This is pretty cool. (Score:3, Insightful)
Site is Here [pocketheaven.com]
I load this shit up on my 128 megabit flashcard, and play all day at work, and This sure as HELL isn't Nintendo supported :)
gonna have great games (Score:2, Redundant)
This could be a GB/GBA killer... espically if they release a Devkit that can be used under linux, BSD, and that other operating system...
Imagine if someone was to port SDL to it, game development for it would accelerate tenfold.
Re:gonna have great games (Score:1)
Oh yes a devkit for Linux and *BSD should be a high priority for anyone trying to create a GB/GBA killer. I know my 10 year old cousin makes all his purchases based on whether or not there is a Linux devkit.
Look at gbadev.org (Score:1)
What's going to happen when he's played enough games and he decides he wants to make his own? He's sure as hell not gonna make it on a GBA
Bull dung. This site [gbadev.org] has tons of information on how to program a GBA and where to find flash cartridges.
Re:Look at gbadev.org (Score:1)
GBA + family winbox + MBV2 cable = devkit (Score:1)
info on how to program a gba, using a gba? i wouldnt imagine a gba would make a great programming platform, altho it makes a nice target to develop for.
I assume that the boy has access to the family winbox and can get an MBV2 cable with his saved allowance. From there, he can use the family cable modem to download devkit advance [io.com] and an emulator [emuhq.com] to the winbox, look at a couple examples, play with them, and learn how to program. Just make sure somebody else teaches him how to write maintainable code.
RHIDE + MinGW or RHIDE + devkitadv (Score:1)
buy a nice 2nd hand computer, install linux on it
Good idea, considering that Devkit Advance (a GCC port for cross-development of GBA software) is also available on Linux. However, some of the graphics tools may be Windows-specific.
nad then have a decent development platform that is legal. Otherwise little Johhny will have to search the WareZ sites for Visual studio or VC++
You assume that there is no relatively easy-to-use development environment on Windows other than Visual C++. Have you considered RHIDE [rhide.com] (Borland-ish IDE for DOS, which is also available for Linux) plus MinGW [mingw.org] (GCC port for native development of Windows software) or RHIDE plus Devkit Advance?
Windows creates criminals
You have that backwards. Microsoft Corporation is a criminal. Microsoft created Windows. Therefore, criminals created Windows.
Re:Like the name... (Score:1)
I'm betting the CEO/President/founder/whatever is named Park. It's a little surprizing to me that a non-native english speaker would be savvy enough to think up that play on words/names.
So, are we supposed to pronounce it gamepark or gamepok (the Korean family name anglicized to Park is actually pronounced pok or pahk)?
Re:Like the name... (Score:2)
NO, not "Pok." And what's so surprising to learn that (gasp) the subtleties of the English language are available non-westerners?
In other news, I personally believe that there is a Sony employee named "Station-san."
< tofuhead >
Re:Like the name... (Score:1)
My surprise was borne of my experiences in Korean and in China over the past 13 years. I do think it's time I wake up to the fact that the Korean population is becoming more and more literate in English. My colleague (who heads our Korean branch office) is in his 40's and it's often difficult to communicate with him, let alone engage in word-play. His teen-aged kids, however, can chat happily for hours in English, jokes included.
For the record, I can read & write Hangul. I don't always understand what I'm reading, but because of the beauty and simplicity of Hangul, I can read it.
Re:Like the name... (Score:1)
To go Straight to the ENGLISH version of this page (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.gp32.com/English/main.asp [gp32.com]
Re:To go Straight to the ENGLISH version of this p (Score:1)
/K
GBA Compatability? (Score:5, Informative)
With the right software, would it be possible to emulate the rest of the GBA hardware in realtime and use the SMC to store GBA roms, thereby giving this handheld an already large library GBA games?
Just a thought, though the legality of that kind of thing would be dubious at best really...
Talez
Re:GBA Compatability? (Score:1)
Re:GBA Compatability? (Score:2)
Which of course, brings up the most glaring, major question about this unit:
Why the HELL are there only two action buttons? Okay, I can see a limitation of four, *possibly*. But realistically, six is the appropriate number, as any fighter game fan will tell you (I'm not, so four is enough for me, but I'm not ignorant of the demands of other genres).
It also makes it impossible to easily emulate many other systems. Gah. I don't see why they did it - at least it looks like the select button can operate as a third button, which would make a good chunk of CRPGs playable.
--
Evan "Wonderswan, you're off my to buy list, Game Ax goes to the closet" E.
Re:GBA Compatability? (Score:1)
Re:GBA Compatability? (Score:2)
Oddly, I looked at the specs (fairly) carefully (on LikSang's site), and missed those somehow. Four face buttons, two system buttons and two triggers would be a nice setup, IMO - not too cluttered, and you could map the buttons fairly easily to most common setups.
Maybe the next version (please let this take off enough so that it makes decent money) will have more buttons, more memory, and a faster (switchable?) processor.
--
Evan "Visions of FFIV in my hand dancing in my head" E.
Not binary compatible; does it even have Mode 7? (Score:2)
No, it's not compatible with binaries for Game Boy Advance (because they have different hardware and memory maps), but if it has the right kind of hardware, it may be possible to make libraries such that a properly written game can be built with -lgba or -lgpark to get the same game on both systems.
Not only that ! a 75Mhz ARM-7 will have no trouble emulating SNES or Genesis hardware ( based on 8Mhz 68000 IIRC )
Minor correction: Super NES was based not on Motorola 68000 but on a 3.6 MHz WDC 65C816 processor with some added memory-mapped instructions plus a 2.0 MHz Sony SPC700 (a cheap 6502 knockoff) on the sound side.
But if the GamePark doesn't have Mode 7 hardware, it won't be that able to emulate Super NES in real time, and developers probably won't even be able to port Super NES games to it (as they are doing with the GBA, which has twice the graphics power of Super NES).
Re:Not binary compatible; does it even have Mode 7 (Score:2)
GBA has *two* layers of Mode 7 backgrounds (Score:1)
FYI GBA doesn't have Mode 7 hardware either - Mode7esque effects are normally achieved by messing with the hardware sprite registers between scanlines.
Not sprites, but backgrounds. Mode 7 is created by setting up DMA to copy new values into the background's rotation and scaling registers before each scanline. And the Game Boy Advance has not one but two layers of Mode 7 (in graphics mode 2), in addition to the sprite scaling and rotation functions. I should know; I'm working on a GBA puzzle game that uses such an effect (but in graphics mode 1, which has two normal tile layers and one Mode 7 layer).
Re:GBA has *two* layers of Mode 7 backgrounds (Score:2)
Can't easily do mode 7 with GBA scaled sprites (Score:1)
Although in theory at least you *could* use sprites for the same effect
Not exactly. If you're just rotating and scaling a background in 2D, it might work, but in pseudo-3D as F-Zero and Mario Kart use, no way. For one thing, scaling a sprite above 2x isn't going to work because of the limit on a sprite's width. For another, it's much harder to change a rotated sprite's origin per scanline than to change a Mode 7 background's, and because you can't set it to a subpixel, you won't easily be able to get the sprites to line up at the joint. For yet another, GBA DMA likes contiguous destination addresses, and the sprite rotation and scaling registers are not contiguous by any means.
if you didn't mind eating most of your sprite memory and/or having extremely chunky backgrounds. :)
Sprite memory and background memory are completely separate in GBA. In tiled modes (0, 1, 2), you get 64 KB of memory for background textures and maps, 32 KB for sprite textures, 1 KB for sprite vertices, and 1 KB for the palette lookup table.
Re:Can't easily do mode 7 with GBA scaled sprites (Score:2)
As for lining up the sprites at the joint, getting them to cover the screen correctly shouldn't be hard, but I agree that lack of sub-pixel rendering would result in extremely ugly seams.
Anyway, as you say, the right way to do this is with rotation/scrolling backgrounds, so it's just idle thought to see if what I'd mistakenly said could actually be doable. I'm very much of the opinion that it could - just that it wouldn't be worth it and it wouldn't work very well.
Re:GBA Compatability? (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as emulation, it appears that the GP32 has a framebuffer for the video, and no tile modes, sprites, scalling, etc, etc, that allow the GBA to do such really cool stuff with only 16mhz.
The GP32 might be able to do GBA quality games, but not through emulation -- even partial emulation. The GBA hardware is just really really powerful.
I'd imagine that the quality of the games for both of these machines is going to be about the same, with the GBA probally having the upper hand. The GBA has a slower processor, but more advanced graphics capabilities. The GP32 traded the advanced graphics for a faster CPU. Both approaches are valid, and for a company with limited resources, the approach taken with the GP32 is going to be cheaper. With the GBA, Nintendo wanted to make a machine that not only was an advanced handheld, it also had to be reasonably compatible with the SNES and the GB/GBC line. The GBA handles both of those requirements just fine. The GP32 doesn't.
I've also seen people on here talking about MAME ports, and so on -- I don't think that MAME is reasonable for a limited machine. But, since this thing only has a framebuffer, it might be a good start. With the GBA, it has a tile mode that is very similar to a lot of the early hardware that's being emulated -- which makes it real easy to emulate the graphics.
Any emulator for either of these machines should be re-written to take advantage of any capabilities the machines have... in the GP32's case, though, it doesn't appear to have any more capabilities than at souped up PC from the early 90s.
I may still get one of these, though. If it proves that emulation on this thing can be done reasonably well (anyone seen PocketNES and Foon on the GBA yet? That's impressive, but they both take advantage of the tile mode the GBA has), this may be fun to have in the bag along with the GBA for long trips. But, not being able to stop into a local store for new games is a definite disadvantage.
Oh, and as far as programming the GBA goes, you haven't really had fun programming until you try programming for the GBA -- things that take lots of coding on the PC (sprites, paralax scrolling, rotation, scaling) are all available in hardware on the GBA. You can make a small program to move a sprite around quite easily. And if assembly language is something you are interested in, you can't get a better platform to learn on than the ARM -- it's a joy to program for compared to the x86 or even other RISC processors like the PPC.
So, to sum up my long rant, if you're interested programming for consoles, and want to get in cheaply, it looks like the GBA or the GP32 would be a nice start, with the GBA being a better (IMHO) platform to start with. The GBA has much more support in the homebrew community already, with gcc already targeting the GBA, and tons of source code available for use. I can't imagine that the tools for the GP32 are too far behind, being based on the same CPU family, and standard interfaces like SMC and USB. But, even still, the GBA has the leg up, especially if you want it for something more than just playing homebrew games and a handful of games in Korean.
Either way you go, programming for a console is very fun -- you have complete control of the machine, with no OS to get in your way. You have a blank slate, so go write what you want.
Re:GBA Compatability? (Score:1)
A nice processor, ARM's compiler tools are something to behold also, really really good code generation.
Hedley
All they need now is Java! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:All they need now is Java! (Score:1)
Re:All they need now is Java! (Score:1)
-GN
Re:All they need now is Java! (Score:1)
1) That no one on this site understands the meaning of satire
or
2) You don't because your posts don't reflect it.
I'm willing to bet on #2. Satire had a basis in humor, which you apparantly do not possess.
Hur-ting donkey!
-GN
wireless beowulf cluster of gamepads! (Score:2, Funny)
web site allegedly supports only IE (Score:1, Interesting)
In any case, don't you think it a bit odd, that a company that is supposedly promoting open source software, is not even open to all browsers? I say, wolf in sheep's clothing -- let's not get all gushy about everyone who makes claims to openness -- let's use a little bit of litmus here before we start posting pure corporate marketing propaganda on slashdot.
MAME please. (Score:3, Insightful)
(I cant see wether this is wishfull thinking or not, as the links seem to be down.)
game machines require games (Score:2)
1. The quality of the games that are available.
While open source/free software development is a noble concept, if the games aren't built, they will not come. Honestly, how many of us here who play games use Linux or Free BSD boxes *exclusively* for game machines? I play games on Windows boxes because the games are there. Until there are handheld games the quality of those produced for GameBoy, the GP32 will never sell well. If I want to play "snake", I can do that on my cell phone.
2. Inertia.
If I've invested in a hardware platform for games that I'm satisfied with, I'm going to continue to use that platform, and buy more games for it. The GP32, or any future handheld game system, will have to offer qualities or features that aren't on my current platform.
Not Mario, but perhaps Sonic and Crash (Score:2)
This ystem will never be big in the states. Why? because it doesnt have mario
So you're saying the States are brandist. Well, Sony PS2 and Microsoft XBox will never have Mario Mario as a character, and neither will the rumored WinCE-based "XBoy" [xboxweb.com], but they still sell. However, because Sega and Naughty Dog are now cross-platform developers, you just might get your Sonic the Hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot side-scrollers.
Sweeet (Score:4, Interesting)
I hope it works out well in practice. The only thing I fear is that we will only have a batch of emulators running on the gp32. For most home brew development platforms (ps1, dreamcast, gameboy, gameboy advance), emulators and demos are about all that exist; full games, even puzzle games, can take an awefull long time to develop.
Toodles
How Can They Stop Piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:GBA has the same issues (Score:2, Interesting)
BTW, the devices you have pointed out for GBA is rather pricy. A copy devices costs $120 and additional 64 MBit cartridge case $99. So it would only attract dedicated hobbists. On the hand, GP32 use SMC card. You can find a 8 MByte SMC for $10 and you could easily read it with a cheap adaptor on your PC. So even an average user can join the pirate rank.
I haven't lusted after a device in a while (Score:5, Insightful)
Everything is so standard that this could have so many uses besides the normal 'game system'. With wireless RF it could be used as an RF remote, chat program with other people, a wireless LAN debugger, or to unlock cars. It is an MP3 player already. It could emulate just about anything. If you had a wireless LAN that would open up all sorts of possibilities like internet browsing and PC communication.
Unfortunatly though, I think this will fail as a game system, because they just won't be able to get it out there where people will notice it. Game should be plenty easy to develop for, but that doesn't matter if no one is doing it. If history teaches us anything it is that this won't be a gba killer, but I still want one so bad.
Also, if the games are on smart media, how is it that they can cost only 34 dollars?
Re:I haven't lusted after a device in a while (Score:1)
Re:I haven't lusted after a device in a while (Score:1)
You can a 16 MB Smart Media for $10 at retails (according to pricewatch). So I would assume that if you OEM cards bulk at local Korean suppliers, it would probably cost only a couple of buck each.
The graphics hardware? (Score:1)
This is some cool cool stuff. 75 Mhz is not just over four times as fast as the GBA, it is faster than all the previous generation consoles.
Except is the graphics a dumb frame buffer like VGA? If so, it'll be hard to make even a scrolling game, let alone a mode 7 or super-fx style game.
Re:The graphics hardware? (Score:1)
Now if the hardware is enough to get some mpeg decoding on it, and we will have the wearable pr0n device nr0... you know it's not the most hitech computer that wins... the pr0n make all the difference...
/K
Re:The graphics hardware? (Score:2)
if you cant do that then you really have no idea how to make games... as I am just learning SDL so I suck because I lack expierience...
sorry... a dumb frame buffer like VGA is no problem at all.
I was concerned about frame rate (Score:1)
I just spent 15 minutes and made a simple side scrolling example for my daughter in C with SDL using a VGA framebuffer...
I've done the same thing with Allegro (very similar to SDL). I was more concerned about the frame rate that the system would be able to push.
Re:I haven't lusted after a device in a while (Score:2)
The N64 ran at about 90MHz. This new toy is a bit slower and most likely doesn't have the audio/video coprocessor that the N64 does. Don't expect it to run the likes of Goldeneye or Zelda 64.
ARM processors in general are a little weak. Think of a 75MHz ARM as roughly comparable to a 25-40 MHz Pentium (no, such things never existed) without an FPU. Puzzle games, yes. 3-D shooters, no.
--Patrick
Re:I haven't lusted after a device in a while (Score:1)
How is a console underpowered because someone makes a game that doesn't run smoothly? I could write a program that would run slow for a Cray, that doens't mean that a Cray is underpowered.
Re:I haven't lusted after a device in a while (Score:2)
(Such as the *32* bit PSX which was dog ass slow and ugly compared to the N64.)
I want a GBA just for the sake that I am a huge Nintendo Fan. (GB, GBC, I want my GBA!
Open Handheld Platform... more than games? (Score:2, Interesting)
USB connectivity? Smart card? program a sweet little shell on there (probably specialized, as there's essentially no keyboard), and use it as a PDA! Could be lots of fun.
der_m
How long will it be... (Score:2, Funny)
Non-troll question (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously. It has an ARM9 and 8Mbyte RAM, you could port ARM Linux to the thing and use it as a poor man's Ipaq.
Oh - one more thing - imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!
Re:Non-troll question (Score:1)
Re:Non-troll question (Score:1)
Re:Non-troll question (Score:1)
It has a USB port, which means you can use a USB keyboard and joystick.
Re:Non-troll question (Score:2)
Open standards my ass. (Score:2, Interesting)
Just Two Face Buttons?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Better yet, squeeze on six face buttons and we'll be able to properly play all those Capcom fighters that are coming out for it. I'm still puzzling over why Nintendo didn't put more buttons on the GBA, and now this system has the same problem too? Is there some kind of conspiracy?
Re:Just Two Face Buttons?! (Score:1)
Does The Display Has Backlight? (Score:1)
Re:Does The Display Has Backlight? (Score:2)
Logo (Score:2)
Indeed, an ill omen.
price against gba (Score:2)
I would have considered buying this for around 100 , but for almost 200 it doesnt seem worth it, considering you are guarranteed hundreds of games for the gba over the next few years. and among those, there will be many excellent games (like golden sun). whereas with the gamepark, what are you guarranteed? hundreds of crappy tetris clones?
cristiana
Re:price against gba (Score:2)
Price (Score:2)
But as a purely geek toy, I like it. For Joe sixpack, no chance.
Re:Price (Score:1)
some screenshots and some games. (Score:2, Informative)
Sheesh, a little late, eh? (Score:2)
I included in-depth info on the GP32 as part of my last story submission [slashdot.org] (originally titled, "Wireless Handheld Gaming"), but apparently Taco didn't think it was too interesting, so the whole GP32 section was snipped out. Somehow discussion about wireless GBA via add-on peripherals doesn't seem as interesting without a point of reference, such as a handheld that icludes such capabilities built-in from the start.
I'm personally watching Korea as far as Japanese-style games development goes. Nowadays it's not uncommon to see huge Japanese fan bases for Korean games, mostly RPGs and sim games. Not only is a Korean company now the home of SNK's venerated King of Fighters series, but original games like Tomak [thegia.com] are coming out and impressing Japanese fans.
< tofuhead >
Neat (Score:1)
Slow Taco (Score:1)
My site (www.HandheldHQ.net [handheldhq.net]) has been covering the GP32 since October, so I'm not simply bragging when I say it's got more coverage than nearly any other site. I hope my site doesn't get Slashdotted from merely posting it here, but oh well--at least some more people can learn about this handheld, which I am really hyped about.