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Games Entertainment

The Lure of Heroinware 388

blankmange writes "news.com reports: When games stop being fun; where the line between reality and fantasy blurs. Another story about games and the adults who can't stop playing them. It seems that we can't be held responsible for our actions -- it must be the 'heroinware' that game companies are producing...." Mmmm, Evercrack. T. pops in: Don't worry, games aren't addictive, but here's the announcement of a 24-hour gaming TV network for those unexplained late-night cravings. (Thanks to joestump98.)
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The Lure of Heroinware

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  • by Genyin ( 415163 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @10:51PM (#3337443) Homepage Journal
    is This! [slashdot.org]
  • by qslack ( 239825 ) <qslack@@@pobox...com> on Saturday April 13, 2002 @10:52PM (#3337445) Homepage Journal
    Ah, heroineware. Tomb Raider 2 was an excellent game. In fact, I'd say that any game with Lara Croft as the heroine [dictionary.com] is an excellent game.
    :)
  • this is because... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by iONiUM ( 530420 )
    Comparing games to heroin? Ya, because sometimes I shutter violently if I havn't played for a few hours.
  • Truth Ads? (Score:3, Funny)

    by ascii7 ( 312086 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @10:55PM (#3337457)
    Now I wonder if in 20-30 years those stupid Truth ads will have switched from whining about cigarettes to whining about how addictive videogames are?
  • Planetside (Score:5, Informative)

    by Skidge ( 316075 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @10:57PM (#3337470)
    Here's an interesting quote from Planetside's FAQ, another game by Verant, the creaters of Everquest:

    What is the goal of the game?
    To be more addictive than any substance known to man.

    Probably said with tongue in cheek, but still, they recognize what their cames can become to some people.
    • Re:Planetside (Score:4, Informative)

      by Skidge ( 316075 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:04PM (#3337487)
      That quote can be found here [sony.com], for all those interested. Forgot to include it it in my previous post.
    • Re:Planetside (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Chasing Amy ( 450778 ) <asdfijoaisdf@askdfjpasodf.com> on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:27PM (#3337566) Homepage
      Anything that provides the opportunity for escape or is mood-altering can become addictive. In that respect I don't think the immersive video games are much different from other things people can become addicted to--drugs, alcohol, pr0n, traditional paper-and-dice roleplaying, etc. There's a good reason that even huge fans of the game jokingly agree with the term "Evercrack." But it's important to note that people can become addicted to just about anything--watching those 24-hr. cable news stations, posting to Slashdot; anything which alters the mood, takes the mind off real life or personal life, or makes someone feel special or important.

      That's not to say that it's inherently dangerous or addictive--most people can drink or smoke pot or watch pr0n or play Everquest or D&D without becoming addicted. It's a very small percentage with personalities susceptible to addictions who develop real problems, while almost everyone else can successfully have a few drinks or play a few games without it interfering with the rest of their lives.

      So, it's the addictive personalities which are the real problem, not alcohol or games or pr0n or drugs or cable news or whatever one's addiction is. When I read the following paragraph, I had an intersting thought:

      > While such cases are rare, mental-health professionals say the fantasy worlds
      > offered by computer and video games can become the stuff of very real addictions that
      > destroy marriages and careers.

      The thought was--what is it about these people's real lives that's so boring or bad that they want to escape into the make-believe world of power or pleasure offered by a computer game or a syringe of heroin? That's what we need to blame and address, not the games or the pr0n or the alcohol or drugs. All of those things can and are used in moderation by most people, to bring them additional pleasure; some people have no or insufficient real-life joys, and rtreat into their favorite "opiate." These deficiencie in their lives, which enhance susceptibility to escapism, are what need to be addressed and improved.

      Think of the teenage Everquest addict's likely profile--a smart geek with a lot of ability but no respect in real life. Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords brainless people with athleticism limitless respect, and people with tremendous minds but not so impressive bodies almost none. It's therefore understandable if one falls into the lure of finding that respect in a make-believe world, since the real one refuses to provide it.

      It's like with Columbine, how not a single step was made to teach kids to be more egalitarian and accepting, and instead the pressure was turned up and people who didn't fit in perfectly into the social machine were shunned and harassed even more. No one wants to see underlying problems--they want to blame the game or the substance instead of the deficiencies in our society. It's sad and alarming, and is getting us nowhere. We need to see the problems in our society and work our best to fix them--not blame that which brings the problems to light.
      • by notsoanonymouscoward ( 102492 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @01:02AM (#3337923) Journal
        most people can drink or smoke pot or watch pr0n or play Everquest or D&D without becoming addicted

        and then there's ppl like me, drug addict, pr0n addict, EQ addict, etc..
      • Re:Planetside (Score:5, Insightful)

        by 198348726583297634 ( 14535 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @01:12AM (#3337939) Journal
        Think of the teenage Everquest addict's likely profile--a smart geek with a lot of ability but no respect in real life. Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords brainless people with athleticism limitless respect, and people with tremendous minds but not so impressive bodies almost none.

        That's a nice way to get modded up, but probably not so accurate. Try: Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords outgoing and friendly people (who tend to move toward social activities like sports and dating) limitless respect, and people with tremendous egos because they unlocked the secrets of programming instead of flirting almost none.

        As for Columbine- the world does not exist to be fair and to cater to unbalanced individuals. Fairness is nice, and something we should probably strive for, but being unfair never ever ever justifies that kind response. It is sad and alarming that people could read anything into the Columbine incident but the tragedy that two very sick youths took out their rage on their classmates and peers.

        (Mod etc blah blah blah)
        • > As for Columbine- the world does not exist to be fair and to cater to unbalanced individuals. Fairness is nice, and something we should probably strive for, but being unfair never ever ever justifies that kind response.

          While I appreciate your try to distribute the blame for Columbine, this is by far not enough.
          No matter whether being picked on justifies the killings or not (I'm just plain not interested in this question) it's still a matter of fact that the classmates had to die because of it.

          If the school system had cared more about them, it could have saved the lives of 15 teenagers. Period.
        • Sense of self, and marketing same: consider the "survival of the cutest" theory as put forward atNews & Previews from the [wfs.org]
          World Future Society and
          at salon [salon.com]

          The question I pose is how cute (attractive) does the behavior make one? And to who? Friendly, outgoing, ugly fat people aren't likely to be appreciated whereas shy beautiful people are...see
          • The Truth About Cats and Dogs
          .
      • by mgblst ( 80109 )
        Who are these people addicted to porn? What do they do, neglect there girlfriend? Steal to get more porn?
      • Games don't addict people, people addict people.

        Or something like that.

      • Re:Planetside (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ArcSecond ( 534786 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @07:35AM (#3338621)
        I think you are close to the point here, but this is my take on it:

        Addiction is a behaviour. You learn to become addicted. You can also unlearn it to a certain extent... but (as all the psych people out there probably already know), a behaviour can never be completely extinguished once learned. Hence the "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" mantra of AA has a real foundation.

        Behaviours are like memes: they compete with each other. To the extent that you exibit one behaviour more than others, it defines you. Getting locked into a certain pattern of behaviour(s) makes you boring, IMNSHO. Thus, addiction may be a response to boredom, but it in turn makes you boring. Got to love the irony.

        Of course people who feel inadequate, unsatisfied, and ignored in "real life" (whatever that is) will try to find a way to experience the thrill of power, exultation, and adulation. The fact that they are "only acting" has nothing to do with the reality of their experience. Other people may choose to devote their lives to, say, show biz for the exact same reasons. You could argue that acting in a play and playing in an online game are equivalent, except you are more likely to be paid for the former. Keep in mind that this may change.

        So really, when someone retreats into addiction, they are seeking well-being and belonging. The fact that people identify more easily with their game alter-egos than with their equally-artificial social persona is not only a matter of mental health, but an indicator that our culture (the ones in which these games flourish, that is) itself is sick.

        Why are people so ready to give up the world of wage slavery, voter apathy, anti-intellectualism for worlds like EverQuest? I think the answer is obvious: it's more rewarding than involving themselves in the game of "real life". They want to live the life of a hero (or villian) in the true sense: they want to take on the role of the archetype, to accept the hero's challenge to conquer his own weaknesses and transcend The World itself.

        We all are, really. Some of us have kids to keep our name/genes alive. Some try to make their mark on history. Others may work in their community to improve things for the next generation. All are seeking a "place" in the world--not the world of time and space, but the world of stories, lore, and cultural memory. Looked at from this point of view, what the EQ addicts are doing isn't so strange. They are trying to do what we all do, just in a different medium.

        The problem here is that no game can deliver on the promise of the hero's quest. The closest they will come to this experience is not to "beat the game" from within the game, but to beat it from the outside, BY PUTTING THE GAME BEHIND THEM. They can then move on to the real challenge: finding a way through life that reinforces their spiritual, emotional, and physical well-being.

        Our Western lives have been organized around things that seem custom-made to make us feel bad about ourselves, which drives us to find comfort in one addiction or another. We spend our lives trying to make up for the guilt and regrets of what we "had" to do. Basically, through the long process of dividing people into halves (private/public, personal/professional) we have created a world for ourselves where everyone walks around fighting with themselves and each other. Why is it so strange that we would want to escape from this?

        • Re:Planetside (Score:4, Insightful)

          by civilizedINTENSITY ( 45686 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @11:04AM (#3339080)
          There is a big difference between a physical addiction (such as heroin or tobacco) and a psychological addiction (such as marijuana or porn or video gaming). It may be true that "seeking" behavior is exhibited for the second class, but no one goes through withdrawel at risk of death from a psychological addiction. Different syndromes. A federally funded drug clinic can't check in people for detox who abuse psychologically addicting substances (and expect to recieve payments).

      • No one wants to see underlying problems--they want to blame the game or the substance instead of the deficiencies in our society. It's sad and alarming, and is getting us nowhere. We need to see the problems in our society and work our best to fix them--not blame that which brings the problems to light.

        Excellent comments, man. That's very much what my interview project is about. We try and put all these different things that "bring the problems to light" on stage next to eachother, and thereby show that they all have common root causes.

        I'd like to quote some of your comment for something. May I?
  • by Cyclopedian ( 163375 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @10:57PM (#3337472) Journal
    Some people that work too much are called workaholics. What if those people work as game programmers, and they *like* to work? Would that make them a "Heroinware Workaholic"?

    Or does that make them "drug" dealers, since people now like to label them as heroinware makers?

    BTW, if you haven't noticed, this post was posted with sarcasm intended. If you didn't get it, go here. [humor.com]

    • What about a name for people addicted to Slashdot?

      Slashaholics?
    • Yeah! ...and you forgot to mention, these heroineware-dealing corporations keep their employees addicted with rewards of equipment, money and status, to keep them playing. By playing the "work game", these unfortunate addicts build up their inventory and equipment, accumulating items such as cars, houses, furniture. These items allow them to "awe" their fellow players, thereby achieving a sort of social approval that they otherwise would not be able to get.

      The organizers of "work-games" also set up "quests" and "meetings" in which players assemble and engage in social interaction, all within the context of furthering their game goals. The quest for magical items and treasure brings together individuals who otherwise might not have much social interaction.

    • by Glytch ( 4881 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:54PM (#3337661)
      Name two big industries that refer to their customers as "users".
      • by EABinGA ( 253382 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @07:13AM (#3338594)
        Drug dealers: Refer to their clients as "users"
        Software developers: Refer to their clients as "users"

        DD: "The first one's free!"
        SD: "Download a free trial version..."

        DD: Have important South-East Asian connections (to help move the stuff).
        SD: Have important South-East Asian connections (to help debug the code).

        DD: Strange jargon (Stick, Rock, Dime Bag, E)
        SD: Strange jargon (SCSI, RTFM, Java, DSL)

        DD: Realize there is tons of cash in the 14- to 25-year-old market.
        SD: Realize there is tons of cash in the 14- to 25-year-old market.

        DD: Job is assisted by the industry's producing of newer, more potent mixes.
        SD: Job is assisted by the industry's producing of newer, faster machines.

        DD: Often seen in the company of pimps and hustlers.
        SD: Often seen in the company of marketing people and venture capitalists.

        DD: Their product causes unhealthy addictions.
        SD: Doom, Quake, SimCity, Duke NukeEm 3D, 'Nuff said?

        DD: Do your job well, and you can sleep with sexy movie stars who depend on you.
        SD: Drats! Drats! Drats! Drats!
  • by seedvision ( 569905 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @10:59PM (#3337477)
    People in general can become addicted to almost anything. Salt,Big Mac's, Pepsi, if there is a way to make reality a little more pleasureable someone is going to do it to excess. For that matter there are QVC addicts. The herd really needs to think about a little self control. Who knows they might enjoy not having blood shot eyes and blisters on their fingers everyday. I doubt it though.
  • WTF??!! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mosch ( 204 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:07PM (#3337501) Homepage
    "The game almost ruined my life"
    Just when you think you've hit the nadir, you discover there's still a huge fucking crevasse. People need to take resposibility for their actions, and shut the fuck up. Right now.

    The game had nothing to do with his problems, nor any of the other problems described in this article, and likening video games to heroin is just rediculous.

    These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to.

    Yeah, I know somebody is going to say 'but they have an addictive personality.' Here's four words for people with addictive personalities, "sucks to be you." I'd try to feel bad for you, but everything can be addicting at some level, and a true addictive personality has to take extra care to make sure that they're getting hooked on good things, like exercise, family, laughter, and prostitutes, and stop blaming the rest of the world for making things you like.

    • Re:WTF??!! (Score:3, Funny)

      by XBL ( 305578 )
      I think the problem here is mental addiction.

      1. Play Game.

      2. Reluctantly stop playing game to do "real life stuff".

      3. Do "real life stuff" all while thinking about Game.

      4. Play Game again. Feel better until #2 comes again.
      • Well, if the "real life stuff" that your supposed to do, or that your SO wants you to do is boring, then it's a bit more understandable. You'd rather be doing something fun than something boring. But when it becomes the only thing you do for fun, then yeah, there's probably a problem there. Especially if you start skipping work or school in order to play.

    • Re:WTF??!! (Score:3, Funny)

      by freeweed ( 309734 )
      These are just incontinent people.

      They're pissing all over themselves? :)

      I think mayhap you mean incompetent.
      • Re:WTF??!! (Score:5, Informative)

        by mosch ( 204 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:48PM (#3337637) Homepage
        No, I meant incontinent. Aristotle described four categories of people.
        1. virtuous -- they do what is right, and like it.
        2. continent -- they do what is right, but they'd rather not.
        3. incontinent -- they do what is wrong, but they know it's wrong and feel a little bad about it.
        4. vicious -- they do what is wrong and have no qualms.
        • I stand corrected.

          What about those of us who do both right and wrong, and don't give a rat's ass? :)
        • Re:WTF??!! (Score:3, Insightful)

          by dgroskind ( 198819 )

          Aristotle described four categories of people

          It appears that Aristotle would disagree with your analysis of incontinence in your original post:

          These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to.

          Aristotle said in Nicomachean Ethics [columbia.edu] regarding incontinent people: So, too, to the unjust and to the self-indulgent man it was open at the beginning not to become men of this kind, and so they are unjust and selfindulgent voluntarily; but now that they have become so it is not possible for them not to be so.

          In other words, they can't simply stop if they want to, at least, according to Aristotle.

      • Erm, no. "Incontinent" means "lacking control". "Incompetent" wouldn't make any sense here.
    • When was the last time you heard a european or a japanese person bitching that a game "ruined" their life. Get a fucking grip.
      • When was the last time you heard a european or a japanese person bitching that a game "ruined" their life.

        You might be hearing these people saying that stuff ALL THE TIME, but if you don't speak Japanese, you'd never guess it.

      • You need to read japanese newspapers more often - I'd recomend the english (side at least) rag mainichi daily news (mainichi literally means every day around the clock). At any rate - I've found that in my Japanese studies they suffer from a lot (not all) of the same things we do.

        http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/ [mainichi.co.jp]
    • These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so.

      The addiction itself is not always a Bad Thing. Thank God that this guy [classicalarchives.com] and [classicalarchives.com] few [classicalarchives.com] other [classicalarchives.com] maniacs [classicalarchives.com] were addicted to music.


    • Yep lets blame those people because they dont take responsibility.

      that statement is:

      -very old and has been repeated millions times for alchoholics, drug addicts, overeaters, undereaters, gamblers, people with depression etc.

      -shortsighted

      -completely useless because it has never helped anyone and tends to force people deeper into their addictions.

      • Re:hmmm (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by Wakko Warner ( 324 )
        So, instead, we should blame everyone else but the sole person responsible?

        You're a fucking retard.

        - A.P.
        • So, instead, we should blame everyone else but the sole person responsible?

          Did he say that? Did he imply we should blame everyone else but the sole person responsible?
          I'd say that 'addiction' to EverQuest is more of a symptom than a disease, but putting text[words] into someone's post[mouth] and then attacking them isn't the way to debate.
      • The statement isn't useless. Telling screwed-up people to "take responsibility" may or may not help them. If it helps everyone else realize that, basically, their addictions are their problem and not my problem, then I'm better off.

        Useless to the addicted? Maybe.

        Useless to people who want to play a game (or do more-or-less anything) without worrying about someone else's personal shortcomings? No. Very useful.

    • Re:WTF??!! (Score:2, Interesting)

      "Here's four words for people with addictive personalities, "sucks to be you.""

      Yeah, it does suck to be me.

      I was at one time totally addicted to Utopia [swirve.com] until I realised that it was not a good idea to cancel a week-long vacation to play the game so I snapped out of it, killed my kingdom and quit. If I was able to get broadband where I live, I'd probably be addicted to Asheron's Call or Everquest at this moment.

      I have come to believe that what is really required is education. Most people are not aware that gaming can be addictive and thus they don't consider the chance that it will happen to them. I didn't. But if people recognise that they have addictive personalities like mine, then they will be able to regulate themselves more effectively.

      I know that such things are dangerous for me so I try to avoid things like "Evercrack" especially when I have other things like university classes to take care of. I am afraid of casinos because I can just see myself being robbed by the slot machines ... I mean it is statistically possible to win big money. And if I just gave up after losing $40 that would mean that I was there for no reason except to lose money so it would be more logical to go and win it back. But as we all know, slot machines are overall tilted so that in the end, the casino always wins.

      But everyone knows about gambling addiction, especially since there was a Simpsons episode where Marge got addicted.

      So how can gaming addiction be reduced? Educate, I say. Even if it means playing corny videos to schoolkids. Being able to identify a problem is the first step to solving it. "Because knowing is half the battle."

      • I got addicted to Utopia too! Finally decided enough was enough - I wasn't enjoying the new age anyway. Quitting was hard - but in the end worth it. When I wrote on /. about being addicted to Utopia I just got berated by someone who said it's impossible!
    • I don't see exactly what your point is actually. People do get in trouble - addicted to things and I think its only human to try to help them out. And when you are addicted to something you almost have to do it just to feel normal after a while - its like a trap that you may have set for yourself.

      But that aside I do really know a good friend who has wasted the better part of 3 years playing everquest. He doesn't seem to aknowledge he's an addict. But he's lost two pretty decent jobs, spent at least a year moving from friend to friend with his computer to mooch of free food, power and internet connection.

      The once or twice I saw Everquest it seems they (the company who wrote the game) don't do too much to really help out - for instance it seems like it is real time world - for instance if you get hurt you have to stay online for whatever it takes to heal yourself. I literally waited half an hour at my friends place (back when he had one) to wait for an avatar of some sort before we went out to eat - and when it didn't work I had to leave him behind. It really does seem like you could spend 40 hours plus a week playing it and live a normal life in the game it self.

      Unlike one of my old favorites Phantasy Star Online - if you get sick of it drop it no worries your character will be just fine when you come back online.

      Personally I think I took responsibility for the game in the first place - I haven't played it - mostly because I don't have the time to.
    • I played Dark Age of Camelot for two months - If I had invested that time in working out, I would probably be able to do one-handed push-ups by now.

      Maybe if I was addicted to pr0n I could do that too though...
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Not again... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by DrewMadMax ( 562574 )
    When will we finally return to a time when WE were responsible for our OWN actions?? Seems everyone is trying to blame someone else for their own stupidity.. (remember the original Truth comercials, saying that it was all the cigarette companies' fault people were smoking?). Oh well. Enough of my rant.
  • Look. . . (Score:3, Insightful)

    by foo fighter ( 151863 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:08PM (#3337506) Homepage
    The fact is, /anything/ can become an addiction.

    Joking about people whose lives have degenerated into living a virtual existance while their former friends and loved ones leave them is in the poorest of taste.

    [re-inserts balls]

    Bitch, where's my fucking Counterstrike CD?!?!?!
  • So... (Score:5, Funny)

    by CleverNickName ( 129189 ) <wilNO@SPAMwilwheaton.net> on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:10PM (#3337513) Homepage Journal
    So does this mean we're going to see the Bush administration launch a War On Video Games(tm)?
    • That will be after the war on copyright infingment.
    • I'm sure the Bush administration secretly loves any genre of entertainment which they think desensitizes people to killing, and shortens their attention span.

      The first, because they need a future generation of soldiers who don't care about the people who die when fire Hellfire missiles from a remotely piloted drone - "if it happens on the little screen it's just a game!". Ronald Reagan, I believe, stated that video games were good training for future fighter pilots :-)

      The second, because they've seen how effective some carefuly controlled TV is at reducing the vast majority of people to semi-sentient sheep, unable to intelligently analyze their own government's actions.
      • So does this mean we're going to see the Bush administration launch a War On Video Games(tm)?

      Damn! There goes your job market!

      ----> ;-) <----

    • No... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Jagasian ( 129329 )
      The Bush Administration has already launched a War On Nude Statue Boobies, and therefore their resources are already being strained. The War On Video Games must wait.
  • by SocialWorm ( 316263 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:14PM (#3337524) Homepage
    06. Name sounds like a system Apple came out with for no reason.
    05. Your motto is "Get Game"
    04. One of the your "original programs" is a show about simulations of sports.
    03. Your target audiance is quite possibly the least likely to watch TV among those with access to them. And you know they have "short attention spans".
    02. Executive quoted as saying "We won't compete."*
    01. Logo rendered on an Atari 2600. Englarged with MS-Paint.

    *A bit of a misquote, I know, but no less funny for it. :)
  • Hmph. (Score:2, Funny)

    by pseudofrog ( 570061 )
    Rediculous. Preposterous. Idiotic. Stupid. Video games addictive? HA!

    I'd write more but I have a great game of Civ going...
  • Yahoo! Pool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by XBL ( 305578 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:20PM (#3337544)
    I have never ever been into gaming of any sort, but now I have gotten addicted to Yahoo! Pool (games.yahoo.com). I have played like 1500 games... and I have seen some people on there with over 3000 games under their belt. I talked to a couple of people I played against, who admitted they have been playing for 6 hours or more straight.

    Luckily Yahoo! is starting to charge $10 a month of special privileges, like set tourneys. I have forced myself to stay away from those, and the "ladders".

    There is nothing really that great about this game, except that its free, and loads up easy into the web browser. Just goes to show that a game doesn't have to be great to be addicting.

    Stay away from Yahoo! Pool!
  • 30 hours? (Score:5, Funny)

    by moronga ( 323123 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:23PM (#3337554)
    From the article:

    Angie said her live-in boyfriend spends at least 30 hours a week playing "EverQuest" as a female elf...

    This is supposed to be an example of compulsive behavior? 30 hours a week?! What a fucking lightweight.

    When I was a kid, we used to play 30 hours a day. And we didn't have no live-in girlfriend either.

    :)
    • Re:30 hours? (Score:3, Informative)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 )
      I understand why she doesn't like the amount of time he spends on it, but I wanna know why she's so hung up about her boyfriend playing a female elf.

      There shouldn't be a social stigma for every guy to play a male human and every female to play a female human. The entire point of these games is that you're role-playing something exotic, something not mundane. If you're just role-playing yourself, save the money you're sending to the EQ people and just go out and live life.
  • my story... (Score:5, Funny)

    by cowtamer ( 311087 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:26PM (#3337563) Journal
    You guys are making light of the situation, but it is not so funny for those of us who have been through it...

    It started in middle school with the Apple][. Addiction to BASIC kept me from the smell of sweet, sweet glue...

    Back in the early 90's, I had to forego many high school drinking parties to play Civilization...

    In college, I never went to a rave because I was too busy MUDding--never got to taste Ecstasy

    And now that I am gainfully employed, I spend all my spare cash on broadband internet connections and online games--my drug dealer is getting really upset with me!!!

  • Good Ol' Everquest (Score:5, Insightful)

    by draed ( 444221 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:26PM (#3337564)
    I've spent the better part of the last 3 years playing everquest and I've seen many people waste away.

    The players who make up the high level game spend MASSIVE amounts of time in game. I know many people who have over 300+ DAYS of time logged into the game...

    Players often quit, only to return a few months later usually with an excuse like *RL is boring* or something similar. Sounds more and more like drug addiction doesn't it?

    The thing that worries me the most though is that most of these people are kids who are either in high school or just got out. They have no ambition or desire to do anything but play everquest. When I was their age I was spending all my time programming, reading books, and learning skills necessary to succeed in life. If everquest were around back then, I would probably be working fast food making $6 a hour now.

    Almost every game company out there now is making a MMORPG like everquest. Worlds of warcraft, shadowbane, neverwinter nights, final fantasy XI, Everquest for the console, star wars galaxies, daoc, anarchy online, and many more. The market is going to be completely saturated with heroinware in the next fear years.

    The current generation of kids growing up is going to be nothing but a bunch of computer crazed, game addicted losers who spend all their time in some virtual world slaying some pixel dragon.

    Oh well, I'm glad I quit (again).
    • Y'know, there are some things that should be regulated while your still under your parents roof. I know, it pains me to say it, but it's true. And through all this Ever-crack/Heroin-ware BS, I have to ask myself "Where are the parents?!" You simply can't expect a kid to know what's good for them. I sure as hell didn't (Heh, I may be the exception). But how you could just blindly ignore that aspect of your child's developement is beyond me. I would think somewhere parents would be noticing a problem developing and intervene. "Hey, little Jimmy's seems to withdrawing from the world, spending a lot of time playing Q3/Everquest. You think there might be a problem?"

      It's not a problem with our games. It's a problem with our families. Especially if they're at work a good chunk of the time. Yeah, they're making a living for the family while Jimmy's brain is dissolving on "acid-ware" or any of the innumerable activities a kid can get in trouble at. Just one example. I'm not Dr. Spock here, but kids need supervision and some form of regulation in their activities... ~sigh~
  • by long_john_stewart_mi ( 549153 ) on Saturday April 13, 2002 @11:28PM (#3337569)
    That reminds me of a comedy sketch about an addicts' group:

    Man: Hi, my name's Joe, and I'm addicted to junk food. I'm not sure I can do this.

    Woman: Don't be frightened, tell us your story.

    Man: Well, at first it was just a donut here, a chocolate bar there, but then it got out of control... I sucked dick for butter tarts, man!

    Woman: My God! That's disgusting! You're beyond help!

    *Man walks away in shame*

    Woman: Now, let's continue...

    *See man walk back, steal tray of desserts*

    Other man: Hey! He didn't even suck our dicks!

    I suppose I'll be modded down for being off topic, but it was funny at the time. =)
  • Don't worry, games aren't addictive

    Of course games aren't addictive. Games were addictive! Today I was playing Day Of The Tentacle [lucasarts.com] for something like 18 hours, thanks to the brave guys from ScummVM [sf.net]! Special greetings to Ludvig [sf.net], great work! I'll send you bills from my oculist! :) OK, now must sleep...

  • Apparently G4, the gaming channel is only going to be avalible for Comcast out of the box. However, go to the g4tv website [g4tv.com] and if you wade through all the flash you can write an EMAIL to your provider demanding G4.

    With digital cable and DSS providers and their excessive channel capacitiy, all that needs to be done is have your voice heard and I'm sure we'll get it everywhere soon. Use the /. effect for good! :)
  • I'm computer addicted, though I play no online games.

    I don't think one can blame the game so much as the medium and what it allows one to do.

    There's something very mesmerizing about the screen in general (look at all the TV addicts) and it gets even more compelling with interaction.

    Are you addicted? Take this online test [netaddiction.com] and see.

    This page [support4learning.org.uk] also contains some good information and links.

    I am trying to wean myself of all but the most necessary computer use, but so far it's not going too well.

    I thought of a system that would disconnect my internet connection except at certain hours (since that seems to be the biggest part of the problem), but I would probably just get around it if I wanted to. Or maybe not... could be a good start.

    Anyone with any suggestions please reply!
  • Ahhh!
    *blind ignorance sets in and an air of superiority is asserted*
    Of course you must of meant Dope Wars [beermatsoftware.com]!
  • It's just that our real lives tend to suck. This makes fantasy lives so appealing... Can we hope for the day when our real lives are as stimulating and rewarding as the games are today?
    • Attitude Problem (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Slur ( 61510 )
      It's an attitutde problem. Life is as exciting as we choose to make it, but our attitudes about life make it seem narrow and confining. If we were as open to trying things in life as we were in games I think a lot of us would be more fulfilled and engaged. Is it just that games give us the ability to take chances without the fear of consequences? Maybe. Nobody ever died for real playing a video game, no one was *really* humiliated for real because they did something stupid in EverQuest. Maybe it's more of an ego problem than an attitude problem....
  • How Do They Pay? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Toxxy ( 231886 )
    How do these folks come up with the money to pay for their gaming habit? If they haven't left the house for years, I'm going to assume that means that they don't have jobs.

    I'm sure a lot of people would be quick to interject the fact that EQ items are sold all the time on online auction services, but I think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that they're all doing that. What seems to be the case is that mommy and daddy are paying for their habit.

    If mommy and daddy are taking financial responsibility for their habit, what would make sense would be to stop paying for it. How can you blame Sony for offering an addictive service if you're the one who's feeding them money?

    I say put one of these so-called addicts in their own apartment, maybe pay for their rent and food, and see how long their addiction lasts. Think about what would happen if you were to kick one of these folks out of the house? Or if you were to destroy the power cable running from the PSU (or indeed soon, PS2) to the wall?

    I'm not going to say that I don't play more than my share of Q3A or UT, but for Christ's sake, what's going to happen if you do some kind of drastic action that forces them to quit cold turkey? Are they going to get a case of "the shakes" or something?
  • by NeuroPulse ( 524779 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @12:38AM (#3337797)

    T. pops in: "Don't worry, games aren't addictive"

    Most games are not addictive. Only a particular type, and the reasons are still unraveling. This is a new type of addiction.

    Anonymous Coward: "if...they enjoy EQ, OF COURSE they're going to spend a lot of time playing it."

    The problem is they do not enjoy it. They are miserable as a resul of playing it. That's why the article is called "When games stop being fun".

    mosch: "...but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to."

    Something happens in the brain with this particular type of game that is just like what happens when someone is taking an addictive drug. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. That's why there is ever increasing coverage of it. It is a bizarre unexpected new addiction.

    danny256: "The biggest issue is there is no withdraw, if I take an everquest freak and make him stop playing, he will get better every minute"

    There is withdrawel. When your playing you feel bad, and when you stop, you feel worse. So bad, that you return to playing.

    Sound like I am speaking from experience? I am. It is a very bizarre problem to which I and others are giving a great deal of thought to figure out why this happens and only with a particular type of game. I have always enjoyed spending long hours playing video games. Keyword: "enjoy". Now something very different happens with an MMORPG. At first it was fun like any other game or enjoyable activity. You are having more fun than before you were playing. But eventually and very slowly, so slowly that you don't realize it is happening, it changes. If I knew it would happen or could see it happening I wouldn't have played. Well, I am not going to go into all the details, but it did get to the point where I was experiencing hallucinations. I had gotten so low and was so miserable that I finally knew I had to stop cold turkey or I never would get out of it alive. I knew I feel much worse for a while before I felt better, but I knew I had to stop.

    Well, it was a while ago, and I am all better now. Totally over it. It was an educational experience. I have learned from it. Like I said if I had known that would happen, would never have started playing. And thats the reason for all this attention this new form of addiction is getting. People need to know. I think there should be a warning label, though most people, at least at first, will not take it seriously, will not believe it could happen to them, but awareness will increase and eventually understanding the problem will be common knowledge.

    Note, this doesn't happen with everyone. Certain people are probably genetically predisposed just like with alcoholism. Knowing alcolism runs in one's family, those people avoid alcohol.

    foo fighter: "Joking about people whose lives have degenerated into living a virtual existance while their former friends and loved ones leave them is in the poorest of taste."

    Thank you.

    I hope this posting has increased someone's understanding of the problem.

  • some comments (Score:2, Interesting)

    by CanadaMan ( 121016 )
    I'd like to comment on this concept of addiction to computer games, and, indeed, on addiction in general. In particular, I'm interested in where the causes for and, thus, solutions to, addiction lie.

    First, the causes: there seems to be two camps, personified by some other comments to this story. The first response [slashdot.org], which I suppose we can call the socio-cultural cause, implies that people become addicted to these games because society has created an environment in which the individuals feel no particular motivation to participate in what we would call normal behaviour patterns. The post in this example has claimed that in fact individuals who are not shown basic respect tend to withdraw to their own space. I think that this is largely true. But to claim that individuals who have so-called addictive personalities should not accept responsibility for their behaviour is also not quite right. Of course, the poster that I have referred to did no such thing but the next poster that I will refer to seems to imply that that is the case.

    So this is the second comment [slashdot.org], and it is one that essentially berates individuals with addictive personalities as being weak-minded, lesser people because of their difficulties. This too is the wrong approach. As with everything, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. It is probably true that socio-cultural factors have a lot to do with the creation of not only people with addictive personalities but in fact with personalities, period. Many theorists have suggested this and I think it's clear that the evidence bears it out. Put simply, when talking about selves or, if you prefer, subjects, culture is both the constructor and the constructed. The point that I want to make, however, is that in the case of addictions and addictive people, this fact ought to be made aware to them in a proper setting, such as a therapists's office or in the confidence of a close and trusted friend. What I mean to say, of course, is that a person with an addiction problem needs to be treated with respect and understanding such that they may be able to come to realize that, once they are made aware of the elements of the world around them that construct their realities, they can and should choose to alter their outlook and thus alter their behaviour.

    So really my point is just that while personalities are socially constructed they are also able to be reformed by people who become intellectually aware of their situation. This is an important point, and it's the point that, I think, bridges the gap between mosch's point and Chasing Amy's point. Also, I want to suggest that there is a good reason to begin to examine in empirical detail how it is that culture shapes subjects and thus how we need to change our culture to change how subjects are. This would seem to alleviate a large number of our problems, if it could be done.

    Also keep in mind that the addiction that is talked about in the news.com article is pretty serious. It's probably not a good idea to confuse occasional game-playing with real addiction.

  • news flash (Score:3, Funny)

    by captaincucumber ( 450913 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @01:12AM (#3337940)
    masturbation is addictive. coffee is addictive.

    so what?

    Anyway, I'd say you really have a problem if you find yourself drinking coffee and masturbating while playing everquest.

  • by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @01:20AM (#3337953)
    I can no longer easily count the friends I have seen do serious damage to their "real" lives by playing these games. I know numerous people who have lost their jobs, signifigant others, social lives, and even their sanity due to addictions to EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, and StarCraft. Sometimes in my circle of friends, I am the weird one for being the person who goes out and interacts with the real world, and not vice versa.

    What really scares me, though, is that I don't find the term heroinware at all offensive, because I actually know more people who have completely ruined their lives with these games than I do people who have ruined everything with drugs - and at least the drug users manage to quit!

    Seriously, this problem is just beginning to rear its ugly head. Once Blizzard releases World of Warcraft, things are going to get really, really nasty, as entire offices have their IT departments stripped on important "game days." And that will be the beginning of the end for these virtual worlds; as companies lose the benefits of computers to an increasing number of problem staff members, there WILL be some sort of legislation to wean geeks away from these games.

    Really.
    • I do find the term slightly herionware slightly offensive. Have you ever known someone to die from a game?
      • I can no longer easily count the friends I have seen do serious damage to their "real" lives by playing these games. [...] there WILL be some sort of legislation to wean geeks away from these games.

      Given our track record in this area, what's more likely is that there will be doomed attempts - driven by ratings grabbing media hysterics - to ban "these" games. Note that "these" games will always mean whatever people with addictive personalites become addicted to.

      First they came for EverQuest, but that didn't worry me because I didn't play EverQuest... and so on.

      What we will never do is to actually address the problem of people with addictive personalities. We'll carry on doing what we do now, which is to provide patchy and erratic treatment programs for a few select substances. We have programs for heroin uses, programs for alcohol users, programs for nicotene users. But how many people kick heroin (some through methodone), get chalked up as a success, then go on kill themselves with alcohol or the tar and toxic additives in cigarettes?

      Newsflash: people with addictive personalities will become addicted to addicting substances or activities. What we need are clinics where you can walk in and say "I'm an addict", and you get helped to find a new addiction that's less prone to binge abuse of tainted substances, and that's less socially destructive.

      The reason why we'll never have that (I believe) is that then billionaire scions of the US Royal Families might end up in the same program as the lowest scum from the streets that they exploit to pay for their cocaine habits. Think that one through. Substance based treatments ensure that you generally mix with Your Sort of Person. That sounds pretty cynical, but if you look at our track record of banning substances specifically to ostracise and criminalise certain ethnic and social groups [neoteric.nu], it really makes sense.

  • "Heroinware" is too hard to say.

    Better "smackware"

  • by gkoo ( 189378 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @01:33AM (#3337982)

    No one really laughs at gambling addiction; why isn't gaming addiction taken seriously? Researchers have found that gambling generates similar brain patterns as cocaine usage [harvard.edu]. Gaming certainly shares many characteristics with gambling.


    As someone who has personally become addicted to all sorts of games ranging from Civ to RPGs to Mechwarrior to Tetris, I think gaming addictions should be studied seriously.


    Speaking of which, what am I doing here, at this hour???

  • ...this gives new meaning the the "shoot-em-up" genre.

    Just watch, we're going to get drug sims pretty soon. "All the high without the disease!"
  • do it!", is basically saying they are a fucking idiot and watch TV commercials in an amazed state of wonder. Granted, market something enough and you will have moron after moron lining up to buy. Examples:

    Britney Spears

    McDonalds

    The War on Terror/Drugs/Brown People

    Windows

    Duke Nukem Never

    Anything Oprah says

    Larry FucKING Ellison and his Big Brother Oracle

    SUVs

    Wine Coolers

    Pet Rocks

    Pokemon

    Jerry Springer

    The Olympics

    Creed..I mean Perl Jam...no, I mean Creed.

    Scienfuckingtology

    Cigarettes

    Miss Fake-ass Cleo

    DisneyLand/World/Movies

    Beanie Babies and the Cultist Collectors of Crap

    Packard Bell

    Star Wars - The Movie, and the Politicians who want to make it.

    Senator Hollings and his Bills o' Plenty (what's the focus group tested name this week?)

    Dick Cheney is in perfect health.

    Planet Hollingswood

    .NET

    Michael Jackson

    AOL - Now eaiser to use!

    The Ab Rider/Blaster/Roller/Master/Baiter

    There are many more, of course. Just watch any TV channel, radio station, magazine, ect. The difference between personal responsibillity and corporate responsibillity is easy to see. Corporate responsibillity is to see that you buy what they are selling. YOU are responsible for weighing the pros and cons of the decisions YOU make. You want to play EQ for 40 hours a week? Fine. Just make sure you turned off the oven. You want to smoke a half of Green? Better make sure you still got your job.

    In other words: Take the fall you set yourself up for and stop fucking whining about how it's 'not my fault :( Wahhh'

  • by Alex2000 ( 573247 )
    You know, we look at so called POWERGAMERS playing MMRPGs and suddenly they are addicts who need help.

    But before Everquest and Ultima there were addicting games. I remember logging hours and hours with CIV1 in Highschool. In College I remember logging obscene amounts of time playing UT and chatting late into the night on ICQ.

    And yes, I cut some classes. In fact, so did my roommate. He cut so many classes playing computer games he had to drop out! He even skipped an exam because he was too busy playing games on his computer.

    basically what I am saying is the problem has always been around. Before MMRPGS, these shy, anti-social people might have just read books to escape.

    Heck, Simon and Garfunkel wrote about this in the 60's:

    • I am a rock

    • I am an island

      I have my books
      And my poetry to protect me
      I am shielded in my armor
      Hiding in my room
      Safe within my womb
      I touch no-one and no-one touches me

      I am a rock
      I am an island
      And the rock feels no pain
      And an island never cries

      Alex

  • I'm conducting online interviews with gaming "addicts" as part of a theater production that will tour college campuses in the fall. Contact me via my website [outlandishjosh.com] if you want to know more.
  • by mr_burns ( 13129 ) on Sunday April 14, 2002 @01:52PM (#3339565)
    I remember a wired story from way back talking about tetris being a pharmogenic drug. Apparently, the part of your brain that does that kind of stuff always gets the same amount of sugar, and the more you play tetris, the more efficient that chunk o' noggin becomes. The surplus in sugar due to increased efficiency gives it a bit of a kick...the cycle continues-more tetris, more efficiency, more kick.

    So yes, some video games have been classified as being physically addictive. Explains all the tetris dreams I had when I was younger.

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