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Games Entertainment

Linux on Xbox One Step Closer? 228

Posted by timothy from the can-you-confirm-over-please-confirm dept.
RpiMatty1 writes: "Apparently the Linux Kernel has been booted on the Xbox. No mention of it on the Xbox-Linux Home page yet. Here is another posting of the same messages at Xboxhacker.net." I wonder if the recent security code change rules this particular development out for Xboxes purchased in the near future.
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Linux on Xbox One Step Closer? More

Linux on Xbox One Step Closer?

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  • to load linux on yet another device, this might be the excuse I was waiting for to purchase the Xbox afterall? then again I played Halo over at a friends house for a while, its no Counter-Strike, but it sure was fun as hell!
    • Even better when you link 3 X-Boxes,and play 12 players.

      Special game R-Type Pie.
      50 kills
      Rockets only.
      Blood Gultch

      Some major carnage.

      Or turn all vehicles on.
      Funfunfun

      Wetzel
      • Lan parties....ahh the only true thing that makes life worth living...

        We have a local group [geekzoo.com] that gets together about once a month to play network pc games, what's really cool is they just started supporting X-box gamers 2 months ago!

        too bad X-box won't ever scale the way a pc's can on a network for gaming!

    • You have to wait some time:
      request_module[block-major-8]: Root fs not mounted

      VFS: Cannot open root device "" or 08:02
      Please append a correct "root=" boot option
      Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:02
      Yep, it booted, but I don't think you can do anything now.
    • As much as I love Linux, I still have to say that it would be useless without a serious RAM-upgrade.

      Does anybody know wether you can upgrade XBox-RAM?

  • (This message is a flamebait, if you believe)

    XBox is definitely not worth the hours all developers working on it just for it to boot or even a working distribution - firstly, it's not cheap, secondly, it does not have good performance (the hardware is too bad!) and basically we won't have any good out of it - we are not on the years of 'hacking' already - i believe the linux community should try to stress a little bit more on 'economical value' than 'political value' or 'hacking value'... =)

  • Any practical reasons? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by electricmonk ( 169355 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @03:26PM (#4046957) Homepage
    I've heard all the rhetoric before about how porting the Linux kernel to esoteric platforms just for the hell of it is fun, and hey, if that's what makes you happy, you should do it.

    But are there any practical uses for an Xbox running Linux? Haven't you defeated the primary purpose of the Xbox: playing games?

    I've heard people say that they could use it as a cheap webserver for a massive farm of servers, but this doesn't make much sense when you realize that you can build a better machine for just a little more money and a *lot* less effort. I've also heard people say that it could be used as a part of a rendering farm, but these machines have only a lowly (crippled) celeron processor in them and their graphics hardware isn't meant to do non-realtime rendering.

    So what's the deal here?

    • celeron?
      you mean a p3 700 right?
      • Maybe, but I've heard that it is definitely not the same PIII that came with people's systems 2 years ago.
      • The X-Box does indeed have a Mobile Celeron CPU.

        Van's Hardware Dissects the X-Box [vanshardware.com]
        • The Van's Hardware review said:
          From all appearances, the hard drive is a standard Seagate model, but... Win98 saw the drive, but [failed...] Win2k could see the drive ... but [failed...] Linux would either lock-up or report an error when attempting to read the partition table.

          Our experience suggests that Microsoft is using a standard IDE drive, but that it is has proprietary flash ROM firmware that sends back erroneous data when the partition table is scanned.

          Hmmm. I wonder what he would have found if Van had used dd to read the first hundred sectors?

      • Re:Any practical reasons? (Score:4, Informative)

        by mczak ( 575986 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @04:16PM (#4047221)
        It's a something between a Coppermine PIII and a Celeron. Coppermine PIII has 8-way 256KB cache, Coppermine Celeron 4-way 128KB cache. The X-Box CPU is a 733Mhz (133Mhz FSB) Coppermine CPU with 128KB 8-way cache. So, it's neither a PIII nor a Celeron (Desktop Celerons also don't come in 133Mhz FSB versions, but mobile Celerons do. Still, mobile Coppermine Celerons also have 128KB 4-way cache).
        mczak
    • Well the Xbox would make a nice set top box, so you could play DVD's MP3's, DivX ;), Ogg Vorbis and VCD's thru your hi fi system.
      The Xbox also has support for HDTV, so the first step is to get linux up and running. Then work on using the hardware to the full potential.
      And Im pretty sure the Xbox would still play games.
      Setting up a dual boot could be worked out, once linux runs successfully
    • I know this may be hard to grasp, but someone seems to have actually given Linux GRAPHICS. In fact, Shrek was made with a server farm that included a whole LOT of Linux boxes. Most commercial companies don't make hot 3-D games for Linux, not because of the weakness of the OS in graphics and sound, but because there isn't a large enough market share. So, to combat this actively, I would suggest that creating a Linux for XBOX, a commercially viable console, and then actually making games that you could put into the XBOX and PLAY!! Yes, Micro$oft has gone and made themselves a proprietary unit (Like any other console manufacturer), but this also contains an advantage. Structurally, all XBOXES in a particular release are identical. This means that instead of having to create some kind of weird installation for all the bizarre, antiquated machines in my cluster and go through an obnoxious, textual set-up, a Linux kernel could be made that painlessly installed itself onto the XBOX... any XBOX. Micro$oft can combat this by changing the hardware specs or introducing some sort of encryption or garbage like that, but this would lead to overhead costs for their software providers, and any reverse-compatibility problems with a previously purchased game running on a new post-Linux-cripple XBox would only make Mic and Bill all the more unpopular. In other words, use the platform to make better Linux games that even stoned juveniles can install and play, and you will probably see an overall increase in the use of Linux. Besides, I'd really like to see a version of Nethack using a Quake III Arena-type engine.
      • Uh, right. Like everyone is going to go out and install Linux on their brand new Xboxes because maybe if they do, some interesting games might pop up sometime in the future. Or they could just buy one, leave it as it is, and play a ton of great games now.

        Can you say "pie in the sky"?

    • A $199.99 MAME machine? And being that it'd be compiled running Linux I could actually customize it to my own liking without having to pay 10gs for a development box?

      Sounds like a good enough reason for me.
      • A $199.99 MAME machine?

        Uh, since the Win32/DirectX version of MAME has already been ported to the XBOX this isn't a good reason.

        • Actually, it is a good reason, when I can develop
          for Linux but I can't develop for Win32.

          But MAME is just one example. The range of Linux
          applications unavailable on the XBox is vast.
          I bought 4 XBoxes so far, 2 for routers, one
          for a sniffer/recorder, and a last one just in case
          I ever make a PBX for my home. I think I might
          go get a couple more before MS does something
          draconian with the encryption system, just in
          case. At .2k/pop, they are practically
          disposable.

          And *that* is the point: It's subsidized hardware.
          You've been paying taxes to Microsoft for
          10 years now. I think it's about time you
          got some good old-fashioned welfare for all
          those $$. Suck it up:)
      • Uh, MAME will run on junk hardware; this is a bad reason. I can spend $50 on basically spare parts and get a rig with video out, a midrange P2 or P3 and it'll run linux and MAME just fine.

        This is actually the case with pretty much anything you'd want to use the Xbox for. 3D apps? Forget it, NVidia's never gonna post drivers for that chip. By the time the linux community has developed good drivers for it, the entire thing will be outdated anyway. The XBox is really not that great a deal anymore, for the $199 you spend on it, all you get is a small hard drive, a 700 mhz P3 and a tricked out graphics card that is useless unless you have the drivers. Yeah it sounds like a good idea but once you really think about it, you can drop $100 and get a hardware-comparable rig from commodity parts. Plus you'll have hardware on an open standard where you can rig up things like controllers, VFD/LED displays, etc.
    • Frankly, I can't see any practical reasons. The playstation of course has a MIPS processor, making it the most afordable MIPS platform for virgin embedded devlopers to play with. It's an excellent entry point for future MIPS developers. Obviously, anyone with ten cents can get there hands on an x86 box. Ultimately, the core of the xbox is not hardware, but software. MS is leveraging there DirectX technology, not Intel's x86 architecture. I'm all for Linux, and enjoy cross platform development. However, outside of hobbiest - we can run linux on the toaster - I'm not sure what practical purpose this has.
    • Cheap, capable, quiet, thin client terminals that never need maintenance. Just boot up a CD and you have an instant X terminal hanging off an LTSP server.

  • Very Cool (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Error-404NotFound ( 598574 )
    This is a great step forward! Sure Linux doesn't seem practical (but I still think it's cool for the "look what i did" factor) but this is great news for the Xbox Emulation scene. I mod over at www.dcemulation.com and we have tons of cool things, including a PSX emu in progress, running on the DC.

  • LOL (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @03:28PM (#4046973)
    So *some people* buy these XBoxen(TM) and Micro$oft looses a few hunderd on each box, and then they don't recoup money selling their games because *some people* use the box to play their MP3's and run Linux and have an all around fun time without buying games? Hehe... that's got me goin' like tickle-me-elmo.

    I wonder if THAT could run, oh nevermind. It looks nothing like a penguin anyway.

    • Looking at a shell vs. playing Halo.

      What government organization got funding to build you?

    • Come on, by the time that the project is finished hardware will probably be cheap enough that they can make money on the Xbox.

      Also, they get a larger market share in all the statistics, which gives them more games, and then a better shot at larger market share in reality.

      But mostly it's the first part I have issues with. I really find it hard to believe there will be a signifigent loss on the hardware in the not to long term future. Even right when it came out I think $350.00 US was supposed to be around breakeven (my not be true at all, just what I heard).
      • Nope. The XBOX can't reap the benefits of an integrated low-chip system. Nor does it see any benefit for being manufactured by the producer. Both the PS and Gameboy do, on both counts.

        The XBOX will see lower prices due to bulk discounts on the base parts, but nothing even near the benefits its competitors see. Prices of all will go down, the PS/Gameboy as manufacturing costs less, and the XBOX to compete. Thus, the XBOX will always cost more to produce than they earn selling. In fact, the discrepancy is likely to get -worse- with time, not better.
    • Of course, if you would just not buy one at all, they would recoup no money on the hardware. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to understand.

      For $300 you can build your own MP3 server without a cent going to MS.

  • Stop Xbox on linux now! (Score:5, Informative)

    by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @03:32PM (#4046995) Homepage Journal
    Seriously folks, do we need to give more money to the red devil?

    Just the other day I was strolling around in fry's. I had just bought some KVM cables and I needed a gender changer when I saw the neatest thing I seen in a while. I don't remember the name but i'll try and be as detailed as possible...

    There was this tiny mobo at fry's with a 800mhz CPU soldered on board. The thing couldn't have been bigger than a mousepad. It had video out, firewire, usb, bunch of other stuff on it.

    The price?

    Only $129!

    I know a lot of people want to use the xbox as a cheap linux station, but seriously folks, everytime an xbox is purchased it goes back to satan himself.

    Now even though this lil mobo/cpu thingy didn't have the latest nvidia chip, I could slap up to 2 pc100 dimms in there. It's a helluva lot smaller than an xbox. If I wanted a pretty injected plastic moulded case I could walk over to the next isle and grab a project box. (I was thinkin tap plastic acrylics)

    So which would you rather have?
    xbox (and you're bills bitch)+70 bucks for a mod chip
    129 cpu mobo combo and some spare parts you got layin around the garage.
    • Yeah, yeah, I've seen those too! I'm glad at least someone else here notices that buying Xboxes feeds more money to Microsoft (um, duh?).

      Anyway, I've seen them at a local computer builder/reseller and I think they're Cyrix CPUs. That means that they require no active cooling and can run pretty damn quiet, given the right hard drive. Plus, since they're so cheap and they come with EVERYTHING you need (video, processor, etc.) onboard in a small package, they'd be ideal for little Linux appliances or X terminals or even a typical office workstation (with the price of RAM so low these days, just load KDE or GNOME with OpenOffice and you have an ultra-cheap word processing and email workstation).

      I'm pretty sure they can be found on PriceWatch for even less, but as I don't recall the model name or number right now, I can't really search for them.

    • Seriously folks, do we need to give more money to the red devil

      What's wrong with donating to FreeBSD?
    • The standard argument is that MS *loses* money (they subsidise the hardware.
    • IE, it's a pos. VIA C3 800, $129.

      http://shop3.outpost.com/{PVW0rhqXj2gKoab1A75VVZ aa DfcZLGBfsCBbxJMmpQUAGkowUBsj|3536555959178271846/1 68694311/6/7001/7001/7002/7002/7001/-1|14522247627 32586231/168694310/6/7001/7001/7002/7002/7001/-1|1 029026990485}/product/3349552/

  • Two reasons (Score:2, Interesting)

    by redbeard_ak ( 542964 )
    Well, we could always play freeciv [freeciv.org] on an xbox.

    But then again, xbox stuff is prettier, and we all know we play games 'cus they're prettier.

    Another reason might be this [slashdot.org], which I suppose could be viewed as a game as well.

    So we want linux on the xbox to play games?

    • I'm a Civ addict. It's my kryptonite, my crack, I can't get enough of that stuff...actually I don't allow it in my place and was upset to see a free version available on the web.


      But FreeCiv - ugh. Civ seems like a known commodity, it's hard to believe it could be done so poorly. Graphics that don't really look like anything (and no right-clicking to tell what it is). To restore a saved game you have to quit your game, start a new game, and then restore from a saved game. 50% chance of village exploration resulting in instantaneous death (for the exploring party). A clunky interface that makes every turn SLOW. World Wonders that you can start before gaining the appropriate technology...


      I could go on, but my idea's obvious - maybe it would be cool if done well. But right now it sucks at about every level. Any real XBox game would be funner.

    • xbox stuff is prettier, and we all know we play games 'cus they're prettier.

      Actually, some of us play games 'cus they're funner. Thus, the continuing popularity of MAME, and Win/Linux emulators for Game Boy, SNES, C64, Genesis, etc.
    • Well, we could always play freeciv [freeciv.org] on an xbox.

      You can also play FreeCiv on old pentium with S3 video. Is playing on Microsoft hardware more cool?

      I see no reason to buy Xbox and run Linux there. AFAIR in Xbox there is nVidia video - and you probably know that there are problems with nVidia drivers for Linux.

  • Microsoft losing money on the sale of every Xbox.. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you really wanted to make them lose money you would never buy the xbox at all, you really aren't making them lose money by buying the system, you're really making them lose less money, you're helping them pay back some of the money that has gone into building the box. If no one ever bought an xbox microsoft would lose millions on the development and production costs.
    • I was just thinking this same thing. That whole justifying-buying-an-Xbox-even-though-it's-made-by -Microsoft thing is kinda silly. So what if it costs them $300 to make and they sell it for $200?

      You purchase Xbox: $200 - $300 = -$100
      You don't purchase Xbox: $0 - $300 = -$300

      Plus that things as big as a fucking microwave. I don't have room for it beneath my TV.
      • You forgot:

        You don't buy and XBox but someone else does: -100+ Royalties = profit

        In other words so long as MS doesn't end up with excess Xboxes buying one does more damage, because then they have to make more. The best solution would be a massive coordianated campaign to buy thousands of Xboxes in a short period then stop. Thus causing MS to overestimate demand and get stuck with unsold inventory. However as a practical mater one can assume that MS will predict demand at this point in the cycle with some accuracy, so buying an Xbox now does the most damage as MS will take a hit, and the Xbox would have been sold anyways.

        • Re:Microsoft losing money on the sale of every Xbo (Score:5, Insightful)

          by handsomepete ( 561396 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @04:55PM (#4047426) Journal
          Ok, so let's say you are able to garner enough support to go on a massive 'Let's screw Microsoft!' binge and purchase as much as 20,000 Xboxes.

          $4,000,000 - $6,000,000 = -$2,000,000

          Two problems I see. And, while I'm not trying to be an ass, it'll certainly seem like it.
          1.) Microsoft isn't the only one that'll see these sales figures. Game companies will too. They'll see a rise in demand and want to produce more titles for it (some exclusive, no doubt) therefore making Xbox more enticing to gamers. The increased production as a result of your buying spree might actually be able to be sold and you may unintentionally help Microsoft's plight in the gaming market.
          2.) $2,000,000 isn't a lot of money to Microsoft. They probably don't even care that it's gone. But $2,000,000 in donations to open source projects would be a great thing. I realize that's not something that everyone is interested in, but if even half the people donated half that money to something more worthwhile than maliciously screwing Microsoft, you'd be doing a lot more net good than apparent net harm to Microsoft.

          Just a thought. Could be wrong.
          • Yes, I must agree that it's unwise to buy xboxen
            as a counter-microsoft strategy. But there's
            nothing wrong with enjoying a little chuckle at
            the side-effects while you enjoy the benefits of
            the hardware subsidy. I buy xboxen because I plan
            to use them in places where I would otherwise be
            spending significantly more money for the same
            function, or else because by buying more hardware
            I can isolate functions, and remove single points
            of failure. If I can replace a $1000 file server,
            mail server, web server, router, print server
            with a $200 print server, a $200 router, a $200
            web server, a $200 mail server, and a $200 file
            server, then I've saved thousands on downtime and
            maintenance, made my network more robust, and,
            yes, sucked $500 from usoft to support my habits.
            It's all good.

  • Microsoft loses money myth (Score:3, Insightful)

    by diakka ( 2281 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @03:49PM (#4047087)
    I've seen people quote this "fact" all over slashdot. But has there been any hard facts? How do we know this isn't some kind of astroturf campaign to make anti-ms types think it's ok to purchase an xbox? I'd love to see someone who really knows about hardware manufacturing to do a cost rundown fo the xbox, giving conservative and liberal estimates of how much they think it costs MS to maufacture and why.
    • Analysts are doing that all the time - $300 to $350 are the numbers they end up with mostly. Being user #2281 I fully expect you to be able to use Google to verify those numbers if you aren't willing to take my word for it ;)


      Sony is making money on the PS2 at $199, and Nintendo are breaking even on the GameCube at $149. [at this very moment, those two are more rapidly getting cheaper to produce than the Xbox]

  • Seeing as how Xbox has a DVD player you have to pay another $30 to "unlock," putting Linux to watch movies might be useful to many who'd rather just put that $30 towards a game or, in this case, movies.
  • And lets load Linux onto a dishwasher while you're at it... But seriously, I can't see this ever becoming even close to a widespread practice, even in the realm of umber-geeks. Cost. First, MS has made it a pain in the ass just to perform the proceedure and second, just build your own box for cryin' out loud. You're smart and resourceful.. Parts can be readily had for cheaper in both time and money combined... But it's the moral Linux vs. MS victory you're after, I guess...
  • With Linux being ported to so many different platforms, where does this leave NetBSD. The thing that made it at least a little cool was that is could be used on more hardware that anything else, but is this really true with all the gadgets that Linux can run on?

    I was just wondering, but I've got to get back to making Linux boot under my washing machine.
    • The addition of one more port (really not a full port, since the Xbox is x86) does not change the overall picture wrt. NetBSD and Linux. There are already a few platforms (newer PA-RISC systems and old PPC macs come to mind) Linux supports well that NetBSD cannot work on at all, but if you look at the full list of NetBSD-supported systems, you'll see probably numerous architectures so obscure that linux is NEVER going to support them. And its support for those that set NetBSD apart.
  • Great! Someone is one step closer to getting sued for violating the DMCA.
  • "I wonder if the recent security code change rules this particular development out for Xboxes purchased in the near future."

    We'll just have bunnie (or follow in his footsteps) get the new ones:
    bunnie's adventures hacking the Xbox
    http://www.xenatera.com/bunnie/proj/anatak/x boxmod.html

    LDT Bus tap... Mmm!
  • "Warning: loading on this machine will taint the kernel: tux loathes the gates of hell"

  • Practicing for Palladium (Score:5, Insightful)

    by smartin ( 942 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @04:50PM (#4047402)
    Lots of people here are saying Why bother wasting your time porting Linux to the Xbox, you can create a better cheaping Linux platform using, blah, blah, blah... But the Xbox is really a trial run for Palladium, i.e. an M$ only hardware platform designed to only run software authorized by the Bill himself. This is where we are heading folks, so any R&D done now will be valuble when the real thing comes along.

    • Re:Practicing for Palladium (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 10, 2002 @05:01PM (#4047444)
      But the Xbox is really a trial run for Palladium, i.e. an M$ only hardware platform designed to only run software authorized by the Bill himself. This is where we are heading folks, so any R&D done now will be valuble when the real thing comes along.

      This is also a very good reason NOT to publish and make widely known successful hack attempts. The more MS believes that their current generation of protection is adequate, the less likely they'll devote more time and research into making a system that makes hacking that much harder.
    • You're right, this is a trial run for Palladium. An MS-only hardware platform designed to only run software authorized by Billy G. But, as you say, it's only a test. They are not only testing the hardware platform and setting up the manufacturing process and distribution machine, but they're also testing the hardware security. Each time someone breaks down one little barrier on the road to getting Linux to run, the boys down at Microsoft learn a little bit more about how to keep people from doing that. With every little step that the Xbox-Linux project is making, the odds of putting Linux (or anything else) on the Xbox 2 diminish.

      Any R&D done now will be meaningless when the real thing comes along, because anything that we learn will also be learned by MS. They'll know our capabilities, and they will build the machine to make everything we did with the Xbox impossible on the Xbox 2.

  • PSXbox? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 10, 2002 @05:16PM (#4047498)
    With the availability of some good PSX emulators for Linux, this could result in PSX games running on the Xbox, which would be pretty damn cool.
    • I've got karma to burn, so what's the deal here? It has the words "Linux", "PS2" and "emulation" in it and somebody modded him down?! And on top of that, it's actually a good idea. The XBox is just the machine to pull off multi-platform emulation. I'd still be worried about MS locking out boxes with invisible code in every new game release for modded Xboxes, but the idea is definitely worth noting.
  • So I guess he decided not to wait [slashdot.org] after all? ;)

  • Simple Economics? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kirby-meister ( 574952 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @08:24PM (#4048230)
    A lot of people don't seem to get this point -

    Buying Xboxes allows Microsoft to recoup some of its operating losses.

    Imagine it costs $210 to make an Xbox these days. So Microsoft loses about $10 per Xbox.

    "Great!," you say, "we can just buy 100,000 Xboxes and put MS down $1 million!"

    It's a brilliant idea, because 100,000 Xboxes will cost you around $20,000,000 (minus applicable sales taxes). Microsoft paid $21,000,000 to make them, so this way MS loses $1 million and we've screwed Microsoft, right?

    Well, imagine if you hadn't bought those 100,000 Xboxes. Then, not only would it have cost Microsoft $21,000,000 to produce them, but there is an added bonus that they don't make back $20,000,000; this sets them at a loss of $21 million, a much higher expense than just a measely $1 mil.

    • Many people make this point; but it is incorrect. The OEM (MS in this case) is not making 100,000 boxes and then trying to sell them all. The OEM makes devices in many runs, from hundreds to thousands per run. This limits the capital needed to manufacture units, and at the same time allows engineers to introduce changes between runs if needed (like the security code change).

      All this means that if you don't buy 100,000 boxes MS won't be making them, and therefore won't be losing $1M.

    • Well, imagine if you hadn't bought those 100,000 Xboxes. Then, not only would it have cost Microsoft $21,000,000 to produce them, but there is an added bonus that they don't make back $20,000,000; this sets them at a loss of $21 million, a much higher expense than just a measely $1 mil.

      This seems a little short-sighted, because MS isn't going to make the extra boxes if it doesn't think it can sell them. So, instead of draining $1M from MS, MS breaks even by not making the 20M boxes.
    • I wouldn't dream of buying an Xbox in the hope that MS looses money on it.
      But, when calculating the prize for such a subsidized product, you goal is to get

      production_cost < selling_cost + mean_follow_up_earnings_per_buyer

      Where mean_follow_up_earnings_per_buyer in this case is something like:
      mean_number_of_bought_games*game_earnings.

      We assume game_earnings to be the same for each game (yeah, I know that's wrong, take the maximum off all possible earning if you like).
      Simple, right?
      Now, if many people buy the Xbox without buying a game, ever, mean_number_of_bought_games goes down, right?
      Since the number of people which are going to buy games for the Xbox isn't too high, it may well be that people buying Xboxes + 0 games can make mean_number_of_bought_games decrease significantly, eventually falsifying the inequality above.

  • OK (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TheCabal ( 215908 )
    Linux on an XBox. The question begs to be asked: Why? I asked this when there was so much hullaballoo over booting linux on a dreamcast, and all I got for a reply was "don't tell me how to use my dreamcast!!".

    So. Why so much noise over Linux on an XBox? Why could a Slashdotter buy an XBox anyway? You all hate MS so much. And then devote hours and hours into getting Linux to run on it? Yeah, I suppose you all get some kind of sick thrill from it, from "perverting" an MS product, but geez... isn't this sort of like having sex with your sister?

    • Re:OK (Score:2, Insightful)

      by allanc ( 25681 )
      1) (reasonably) small machine with TV-out running Linux is good for a lot of neat AV type applications. It's powerful enough to be useful, and designed to look like Consumer Electronics Gear instead of like a computer, so won't look ugly in your TV cabinet (well, I personally think that the X-Box is ugly as sin, but that's just me). In addition, putting Linux on it opens it up to the whole world of Linux console emulators, so you could make your X-Box emulate an 8 bit nintendo or an Atari or a whole host of arcade games with MAME.

      2) Last I heard, Microsoft was losing money on every X-Box sold. Their plan was to make it up through getting a piece of the action for every game sold. So if you hate Microsoft, buying an X-Box but not buying any MS-approved games takes money directly out of their pockets.

      3) Pure hack value. Remember that Unix was originally designed so they could play a silly little game on a spare DEC minicomputer. Geeks doing weird things with weird hardware often leads to great results.

      (Fun Fact: I found your post 'cause I was metamoderating it. It was given an "interesting" moderation, I metamoderated it "fair" and then came here to vehemently disagree with you. Ironic, really, but that's exactly how it really should work.)

      --AC
    • One reason I see is that a lot of us like to "stick it to the man". Not in any monetary sense, necessarily. We just want to get their goat, so to speak. It's a pretty juvenile reason, admittedly. But it'll still be pretty funny when it happens.

      And even if they have no reaction at all to it, I for one feel a sense of pride that Linux runs on nearly every hardware platform in existence. This is just one more to add to that list.

  • Screwing Microsoft all the way to the bank (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Daetrin ( 576516 ) on Saturday August 10, 2002 @11:26PM (#4048883)
    This has been said by multiple people, but let's try to tie it all together. Trying to get Linux to run on a Xbox is an interesting technical challenge. But let's see what happens if a million people go out and buy an Xbox with the idea of hurting Bill in the pocket a little.

    Let's go with something outrageous, and assume that Microsoft loses $200 a box. A million people go out and buy the Xbox, Microsoft increases production to meet this new demand, and loses $200 million. Microsoft already expects to lose _billions_ on the Xbox the first few years and _doesn't care_!

    They don't even care if you don't buy any games for it. Why not? A week after this, all of the sudden newspapers and websites and tv stations are talking about the huge surge in Xbox demand, far surpassing Gamecube. Developers sit up and take note and start making more Xbox games. There are more games for those who buy them to spend money on, giving Microsoft money, the greater number of games and the percieved increase in popularity will encourage more people to buy Xboxes to play games on, more money for Microsoft.

    Do you think most people will notice or care that some of the people with Xboxes aren't playing games on them? Especially when Microsoft is spending millions on advertising boasting about the increased sales and "popularity"? Do you really give that much credit to the intelligence of the average consumer or media conglomerate?

    Every article I've seen about the Xbox the last few months has been talking about their dismal sales, with the possiblity of an increase down the road. The PR value of every Xbox bought is currently worth far more to Microsoft than any money they are losing on the system! And do you think Microsoft isn't paying attention to the people trying to port Linux to the system and adjusting their accounting appropriatly? They're probably laughing at everyone's naievety right now.

    Probably the only reason Microsoft isn't giving XBox away is a: the laws against product dumping, and b: the marketing perception that if the price is being slashed then it must not be any good. How many people rush out to buy a game that ends up in the bargain bin the week after it's released?

  • If I remember right, the xbox boots off of the deep layer on the dvd and this was done because you can't write the deep layer on any dvd writer. The question then becomes can you create a cd-w that has a standard boot loader that tells the thing to boot off of cd-w data?

  • Disturbing announcement (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Chris Johnson ( 580 ) on Sunday August 11, 2002 @05:15AM (#4049727) Homepage Journal
    Some of the pro-linux-on-XBox posters here are astroturf, paid by Microsoft to get XBoxes into the hands of the influential 'tweak' market.

    That translates roughly to 'the sort of geek whom people turn to, to ask how to do stuff'...

    Microsoft is less concerned with selling games to tweaks than with having people see tweaks USING XBoxes for various purposes, establishing the desirability of the hardware- a sort of 'gee, if Tweak here runs a web server off his XBox, I bet it would be great and reliable for playing my games!' angle they're trying to work.

    That is why they have people actively working Slashdot, both posting and moderating. They also have supporters they're not directly paying (more like cheerleaders), but some of the 'stick it to them' posts are in fact Microsoft people, on the clock and working that angle to scare up sales.

    Now, mod me 'flamebait'. ;)

  • If you want to mess about with Linux on a console, and want something (much) cheaper than an Xbox, try a Dreamcast. The project is here [sourceforge.net].

    People ask why port Linux to consiles and the answer is because it's fun and because you can have a go at kernel hacking in a friendly, non commercial, atmosphere.

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