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Games Entertainment

Xbox Live Beta Report 216

Posted by michael from the borg-tendrils-sighted dept.
mrquackers writes "CNN has an interesting article up giving its thoughts from the Xbox Live beta test. The system actually gets high marks for its ease of connectivity, matchmaking and voice communicator, but the writer doesn't seem convinced that Microsoft's going to have a big success with this (though he vows to do a better job of backing up that statement "next week")."
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Xbox Live Beta Report More

Xbox Live Beta Report

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  • i heard that microsoft uses dell servers for xbox live.... nice
  • now if all their servers were Xboxes running linux, then I'b be interested... until then, ZZZZZ

  • Parental Lockouts? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Foxxz ( 106642 )
    He mentioned trash talking. Does this mean the games with the headset can't be rated E? Perhaps MS could design a parental lockout for the headset to keep the games rated E. Or even include some of ther voice recognition software to strips out the nasties.

    -Foxxz

    • Re:Parental Lockouts? (Score:4, Informative)

      by WildBeast ( 189336 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:12AM (#4392385) Journal
      You will be able to block some rude people if you want so that you can't hear them.
    • Does this mean the games with the headset can't be rated E?
      Games don't come with the headset, they're just multiplayer-compatible or not. The voice connection isn't related to the game at all.
      Perhaps MS could design a parental lockout for the headset to keep the games rated E.
      Yeah, I don't think Microsoft really cares about the preteen market.
      Or even include some of ther voice recognition software to strips out the nasties.
      Jesus, I hate systems that censor text: it's arbitrary and language n-centric, and besides, there's no way to stop people from being assholes. Luckily, this kind of Orwellian thought-hygiene isn't even close to being feasible for voice.
    • Why do parents need to be locked out?
    • Parental lockout is included with every headset. To activate it, disconnect the headset and place it in a locked cabinet. Duh. ;-)

  • Its all about the Benjamins...... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jimson ( 516491 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @02:54AM (#4392348) Homepage
    Its hard enough to get people to pay for music. I'm not sure why MS thinks it will be any different for people playing games. I can't imagine this will be cheap. (Sounds kinda like game porn. "give us your credit card number and we'll charge you for the minutes.....till your card runs out....")

    I wonder how long it will be until someone has figured out how to set up an 'illegal' P2P network to 'illegally' play your games online without paying?
    • prices will be $50 for the starter kit which includes:

      - Headset and plugin for your controller
      - Free game to play right out of the box
      - One year of XBox Live play
      - Possibly a memory card

      that's the price for any new release game on ANY platform, so I don't see that as too bad...I'll pick one up for my XBox when It officially launches
      • prices will be $50 for the starter kit which includes....

        Sounds like buying razors.........
        Gillette - "Yeah, its $5 for a razor and that includes 2 blades"
        Joe Schmoe - "Wow! Great deal....and that's for an Sensor Razor? Wow!"

        .......1 week, out of blades.........

        Joe - "I need some new blades."
        Gille - "Sure no problem! $15!!!"

      • $50 for the starter kit which includes: Headset ... game ... One year of XBox Live play

        Even then, you're less than 10 percent along the way to being able to use Xbox Live. Because Xbox Live is not compatible with dial-up Internet connection, you also have to pay MSN (or some other broadband provider) $480 per year for each physical location where you will be playing games. That adds up to $530 per year.

        • I'm very, very happy MS isn't putting modem support in this. Look at the PS2 net play which allows modems. People are going nuts with modem users lagging games like crazy.

          No thanks. My beta kit should arrive next week.
        • If you don't have broadband already, what the hell are you doing on Slashdot?
          Besides, who really wants to play games on a modem, the lag is a killer for anything but Doom on a direct pc-to-pc modem connection.
          • My lag on dial up is really good. For RTS games anyway. I lag behind far less often then when using broadband. My friend who has an ultra high speed connection at the university lags for about 10 seconds any given game, I do for about 2. you could 1 v 1 in duke nukem3D 9600 baud.
            I would imagine you could get a 4 or 5 way going with good 56k connections and suffer minimal lag (compression, since the prossessor can afford to now).

            For games that strait up latency is all that matters (not bandwidth). A good modem connection can rip apart DSL any day.
    • Check out http://www.xbox.com/LIVE/default.htm for details. It's only fifty bucks for a year and it includes a headset so you can talk, the real kind, not type, to the peopl that you're playing. It seems pretty cool if you as me.
    • >I wonder how long it will be until someone has figured out how to set up an 'illegal' P2P network to 'illegally' play your games online without paying? I hope anyone who works towards that does it for fun/education, instead of trying to "stick it to the man". Zealotism can only go so far.
      • gamespy already does it...it's cool and works REALLY good

        Check out Gamespy Tunnel, basically it takes up to 4 Xboxes over the net and fools them into thinking they are all on the same network

        Need some flavour of windows, the gamespy tunnel app, gamespy arcade, and some type of home network
      • I don't know why you use the word "P2P", but you've already been able to play Xbox online (halo, mostly) through a vpn tunnel or something or other. Considering that Xbox live will be only 50 bucks for the first year, I'll definitely be trying it out for at least a year. And what they offer does, to me, seem worth paying for, and that's saying a lot since I don't like to pay for much. I've tried it at a friends house (he's in the beta), and it was really great. It offers a level of "community" and communication that you just don't get from anonymously popping into a rogue spear game, without any real communication, except maybe a rushed text message. To me, the communicator makes it really exciting. For one, there's the sense that you're actually playing *with* someone, that you don't get so much from playing online without a communicator. Plus, it's much easier to strategize and such. I think this sounds great. Whether they can make money on it or not (it's strictly broadband) is a separate question, but one that I don't really care about. All I care about is whether it's fun or not. Sounds fun.
      • That wouldn't exactly be illegal, but if a developer does it this way they will have to handle a whole lot of other things that they could otherwise ignore using the XBox Live service.

        Really, if you think about it, XBox live does make things easier for the developer, though there isn't any reason why a game couldn't be created that would support both a peer to peer freeplay "Opened" system, as well as XBox live.

        Current PC games often do similar things. (Diablo II for example -- where you can play Lan/Direct, Battle.Net opened, and closed.)
    • You can already do that, actually you could do that for months already. Its called the Gamespy network. Check out http://www.gamespy.com/articles/november01/arcadex box/

      The only question is whether the underlying code used for XBOX Live is the same that is used by SystemLink. The difference is basically XBOX Live is designed to be used over the internet and SystemLink is designed to connect Xboxes together (LAN party).

      We shall see.
    • Games != music. Music will not hop into a Warthog assault vehicle and chase my flag carrying ass back to my base. Music will not intercept my touchdown pass and run the ball back to my ten yard line. Music isn't interactive.

      You're not paying for some P2P "here's a static file exchange for another static file" - that doesn't work. You're paying for "Here's my game, join it and let's kick some ass."
    • Fifty dollars for the headset, software and 1 year of service is a steal! Most online games, MMPORPGs the biggest example, cost anywhere from $8-15/month per game. X-Box Live covers all the on-line games for the X-box. It will be interesting when and if games like Asheron's Call 2 and Star Wars Galaxies come out for the X-Box if they will cost extra. I would be questioning paying $10-15/month for SW:Galaxies on PC if I could play it and a whole other slew of games for $50/year. Personally I think this will really take off, the main limitation being the relative scarcity of people with broadband access(compared to those with dial-up). If they start including the MMORPGs I think many PC gamers will give it a second look. Why upgrade to a Radeon 9700 Pro when for the same price I can buy an X-Box and several games? I also believe the single on-line service of Live is superior to Sony's and Nintendo's plans to let the developers run the on-line services for their games and may help X-Box gain some market share. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.

      • MMPORPGs the biggest example, cost anywhere from $8-15/month per game.

        MMORPGs are compatible with dial-up Internet access. Xbox Live isn't. Xbox Live costs $44 per month ($40 for broadband and $4 for Xbox Live).

        Personally I think this will really take off, the main limitation being the relative scarcity of people with broadband access(compared to those with dial-up).

        Which is why I include the cost of "MSN Broadband" Internet access in the price of Xbox Live when I explain the situation to people.

  • I can hear 'em now (Score:4, Funny)

    by Mattygfunk1 ( 596840 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @02:58AM (#4392354)
    If you'd rather not use your own voice while playing, the system lets you pick from a half-dozen or so altered voices, though there will likely be more when Xbox Live launches.


    All your likely to hear for the first few weeks is a flood of ten year-olds yelling "All your base ....."


    *voice mute*


    ----

    green pink yellow red blue orange potatoes [wallpaperscoverings.com]

    • whoa....those were all ten year olds? No wonder they thought it was hysterical for so long.

      Hopefully we'll finally be free of the underwear-stealing-gnome joke derivatives soon.

      If only people would mark those fuckers "Redundant" like they should instead of "Funny"

      -transiit

  • M$ Hopes Lie in Chat? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by boa13 ( 548222 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:05AM (#4392375) Homepage Journal
    Interesting article. Microsoft has never been so much an innovator than an integrator, taking existing technologies and bringing them to the masses (bugs included).

    Kits for chatting live with online oponents have been available for some time, even though I've never had the chance to use one. What Microsoft is doing is standardizing this feature on the XBox Live. It is a huge bet for them, but perhaps the only way to save a system that is lagging behind the competition.

    The question is, of course, whether the new "experience" will be "compelling" enough to save their virtual ass. Is there a slashdotter here that has already experienced online chatting? The reviewer says it actually is a good feature, is that your opinion too?

    But then, even if this feature proves to be that good, Microsoft will be facing another challenge: scaling it up. As the reviewer said several times, the architecture has yet to be tested at full-charge.

    As for me, sorry Microsoft, but some of your competitors have a game catalog that is much bigger than yours, including hundreds of old games that are available for a bargain. Yes, I am cheap.
    • a few things about your post that I found interesting:

      -NO kit has been avaliable for chatting online with console opponents for the most part, besides Dreamcast gear (this doesn't count Roger Wilco)

      -I see no problem scaling up the service. Not only does Microsoft have four, count'em FOUR data centers, but I read a while back that these data centers have almost double the capacity that microsoft.com has for all its traffic..that's a buttload, and if XBoxes keep selling at their current numbers (read: low volume) then I think this will NEVER be a problem ;)
      • -NO kit has been avaliable for chatting online with console opponents for the most part, besides Dreamcast gear (this doesn't count Roger Wilco)

        "NO kit has been available..." "...for the most part..." "...besides Dreamcast".

        Cut the shit. Dreamcast was sold with a microphone, you could use this to make calls and also talk online with opponents (example: Mars Matrix).

        Dreamcast is still the shit, way ahead of it's time admit it.

        • ok, i'll admit, dreamcast was a good system, but everytime that i played the damn things i found the controllers to be horrendous

          too hard, missshaped, and the analog stick was too loose
          • i still play NBA2k2 and Virtua Tennis 2k2 on my Dreamcast....and the controller is not nearly as bad as XBox's
          • you ever use a N64 controller. I swear who ever designed it had 3 hands.

            It has three handles on it. I have vivid momories of stuggling playing "bond" freshmen year since you had to fight the controller as well.

            • you ever use a N64 controller. I swear who ever designed it had 3 hands.

              Not necessarily. The third handle of an N64 controller was designed to center both the pad and the stick under the left thumb (by moving your left hand), avoiding the problems that PS2 analog games have (hard to position the sticks accurately because they're so far away from the hand) and the problems that GameCube/Xbox digital games have (hard to reach the pad because it's so far away from the hand).

              The Xbox controller is a Dreamcast controller with a GameCube C-stick and two extra buttons.

              it. I have vivid momories of stuggling playing "bond" freshmen year since you had to fight the controller as well.

              I don't remember having to fight the controller in GoldenEye 007 once I set it to Solitaire (the setting that's like Turok). It actually had pretty good control for a console game (that is, without keyboard and mouse).

    • Re:M$ Hopes Lie in Chat? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by martissimo ( 515886 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:20AM (#4392400)
      I think the voice chat feature could well be a key to online gaming with a console. Just sitting and playing against an anonymous opponent could probably get boring quite quickly, and with the way consoles controls work the feasibility of being able to type out a text message while playing like you can do with a computer is lost... there's just no way you can operate a console controller with 1 hand, and peck out a message with the other on a keyboard.

      As far as i know the only PS2 game that supports voice chat so far is SOCOM, MS guaranteeing that players will be able to communicate via their headset in all online games really does seem like a pretty decent plan.

      How their centralized servers hold up to the load is the biggest question mark i see. I really dont think the 50 bucks a year to play is gonna turn off all that many people who allready have invested in the x-box, buy the new games, and are paying for the broadband required by the console to connect, these are people who take gaming pretty seriously and obviously have a fair bit of disposable income.
    • I hate the voice chat things when playing games...Its a great idea, they just dont work. I haven't used them in a few years, that could be why im alittle negative toward them, but every time I did, all you heard was garble. Xbox doesnt really even has a single game that makes me want to buy one(evne though I already did buy one...when they first game out...for $299). It looked like a great system, Halo looked great...But I need a keyboard and mouse for a FPS. They should release those, I'm sure they'd get people buying them and the FPS games for it. Only games that are better on console than PC are fighting games, and unless there is 0 lag at all, those cannot be played over the net. Good luck microsoft..Sony is owning them, even though theyre already planning xbox2...

      • Only games that are better on console than PC are fighting games

        What about platformers? Or are you counting American Mcgee's Alice as a good-enough replacement for Super Mario 64 and 65 [supermariosunshine.com]? And what about 2D SNES/GBA style games? I haven't seen many of those native on PC, except for a few ports directly from a console (Sonic & Knuckles comes to mind).

    • Microsoft has nothing to fear. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by BitwizeGHC ( 145393 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:58AM (#4392464) Homepage
      Microsoft has nothing to fear about the viability of the X-Box: in a year or so, the X-Box will become the dominant console platform.

      Historically, the console with the most shovelware running on it has been the winner in the console wars for that generation. Because it's easier to grind out Britney Spears or Blue's Clues games than truly otiginal creations, there are far more publishers of shovelware than there are publishers of outstandingly unique games, and console platforms like computer platforms have a sort of "developer gravity about them": the more developers they attract now the more developers they're likely to attract in the future.

      The PS2 had a head start in the shovel-wars, but the X-Box was designed from the ground up to be a shovelware console platform. What with its use of fairly stock hardware components and the industry standard Direct3D API, porting games from Windows (another big shovelware substrate) should be easy. Developers which find getting decent results on the PS2 or Gamecube difficult will flock to the X-Box.

      I could be wrong on this. In a year I'd love to be proven wrong. :) But that is my current conviction.
      • No, the leading console GETS the most shovelware, because it has the most consumers, and therefore a better chance to sell more of any particular title. It also gets the most nifty niche-type games, like dance games or RPGs or puzzle or strategy or shooters or what have you, because even though those games will only attract 1/10th the audience of a GTA3, with the big consumer base of a leading system, that's enough.

        Microsoft has nothing to fear about the viability of the X-Box: in a year or so, the X-Box will become the dominant console platform.


        You could have fooled me. In Japan, XBox is locked in a life or death struggle with the Dreamcast for third place. And the Dreamcast has been dead for a year and a half.

        The PS2 had a head start in the shovel-wars, but the X-Box was designed from the ground up to be a shovelware console platform. What with its use of fairly stock hardware components and the industry standard Direct3D API, porting games from Windows (another big shovelware substrate) should be easy. Developers which find getting decent results on the PS2 or Gamecube difficult will flock to the X-Box.


        Welcome to October 2002. If it weren't for the infinitely deep pockets of the parent company, XBox would aready be dead. As it is, it's on life support, because Microsoft can pay companies up front to produce a game for the XBox, which is about the only way they would ever do it.

        And, FWIW, development on Gamecube is rumored to be a breeze.

        I could be wrong on this. In a year I'd love to be proven wrong.


        IMHO, you're already wrong.

        Sorry.

        Jon Acheson
      • I agree with you. However, this also doesn't prevent unique creations from being created on the platform either. I wouldn't say that the XBox was designed from the ground up to be a shovelware console platform, rather, I'd say that it's designed from the ground up to be easy to develop for. It just so happens that shovelware finds it's home on the easiest to develop, and most popular console. Xbox has the first of these, now it just needs to become popular.
    • you wrote: "whether the new "experience" will be "compelling" enough to save their virtual ass."

      I agree but think it's important to note MS is playing with a gammer's pleasure centre. And successfully stroking someone's pleasure centre pays off in a big way, but the opposite holds and someone deep in a compelling game will feel badly burnt if his connection goes down while he's (she's) deeply pluged in. So the down side is just as steep as the potential profit curve.
    • That live chatting is mostly a bunch of teens swearing back and forth. Extended Play (TechTV show) talked about this a little bit saying that while the technology is neat, it just isn't workable because all everyone does is swear, and when you have more than two people talking it becomes unintelligible. On top of that, any parent that catches on to what their kids are hearing though this will mostly likely be a quick subscription cancellation.
    • Um, I donno about you guys, but... I have dialup. 28.8 dialup. I'm going to have trouble keeping packets going from the game to the server, yet alone dealing with a bunch of SPS losers trying to trash-talk in digitally robotized voices every time I beat them. Yet alone thinking of the inevitable people who will be piping Ramstein at 140db down the pipe, or whatnot.
    • sorry Microsoft, but some of your competitors have a game catalog that is much bigger than yours

      On one side, you have Sony, tons of games, a few that are actually good, a few that are oustanding, and a good controller.

      On the other side, you have Nintendo, a few outstanding games and several absolute must haves on the way. (METROID PRIME!!! ZELDA!!! HUAH!)

      So yes, Microsoft does have it very rough. But seeing as how I play everything [jacefuse.com] I'm definately going to see how good XBox live truely is.

      Best case scenerio, I have a blast playing tons of games online and the concept of multiplayer is boosted just one level higher. Worst case, this fails and online gaming doesn't get adopted well by the console market yet. After all, if it's not XBox live, it CERTAINLY won't be that crap that's going on over at Sony. And while Nintendo may have no concrete online plans, it's pretty safe to assume they're going to do things similiarly to Sony. They're going to just give us online connectivity and say "Here, now bug the game developers." If that's the case, expect to see a very Dreamcast like acceptance.

  • Voice communication (Score:3, Funny)

    by Aash ( 130966 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:11AM (#4392382) Homepage
    This Penny Arcade comic strip perfectly illustrates why I am reluctant to play a game online with voice communication:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-08 -30&res=l [penny-arcade.com]

  • Obscenity (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:17AM (#4392395)
    This headset thing is really cool. However:

    Do you think it's occured to microsoft the repurcussions of the fact that they are going to be relaying voice unfiltered?

    Unlike text, there is no realistic way they can filter voice for obscenity.

    Do you think they've considered what that means? All the gaming communities i've seen, everyone seems to be pretty free with using just random obscenities. They will probably be more so when communicating requires nothing more than muttering under your breath, instead of having to type out stuff.

    How long do you think it will be before that Xbox Live thing comes with a little note saying "Warning: To prevent exposure to adult language, it is suggested children do not use the headset component of this product."

    • Forget obscenity... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Shalome ( 566988 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:26AM (#4392413) Homepage
      Forget about the obscenity factor.. how long is it going to be before little Johnny's mom in California realizes she can talk to little cousin Jimmy's mom in New York.. without paying a long distance phone bill?
    • Obscenities are just a small problem. What about irritating and ear-damaging sounds, such as home-build high frequency sounds or the Corrs.
    • How long do you think it will be before that Xbox Live thing comes with a little note saying "Warning: To prevent exposure to adult language, it is suggested children do not use the headset component of this product."

      Probably never, since we all know that only cool, mature gamers play on the XBox. All of the kiddies own Gamecubes.

      At least, that's what the 10-year-old XBox owners tell me.

      --Jeremy

    • Re:Obscenity (Score:4, Funny)

      by shut_up_man ( 450725 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @06:44AM (#4392676) Homepage
      Penny Arcade has an excellent illustration [penny-arcade.com] of what happens when you get teenage gamers on a headset... it involves sucking... and a particualar body part.
    • You have the option of muting the obscene people.

  • Point taken. (Score:2, Funny)

    by cioxx ( 456323 )
    But if the XBox© Live(tm) does not come with an IRC client, FTP client, and a image manipulation software it's pretty much useless.

  • Why I don't go to sleep (Score:3, Funny)

    by euxneks ( 516538 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:26AM (#4392412)
    PLease wait while your xbox connects to MS main database..

    Enter name:_
    Enter Age:_
    Address:_
    When do you go to sleep?:_
    Do you think the Xbox is out to get you?:_
    Cuz you're wrong:_
    Why don't you take a nap now:_
    ...Completing survey.. Why don't you get a drink of warm milk?...

    Thank you for completing your survey! Don't worry, the Xbox doesn't actually have little green men in jumpsuits waiting for you to fall as... uh.. nevermind that...

  • Live is actually pretty damn cool (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jordanda ( 160179 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:31AM (#4392419) Homepage
    I'm on the beta and I'm quite impressed. Two games were included in the beta: NFL Fever 2K3 and Re-volt. Both games completely suck. The amazing thing is that it doesn't matter. Despite the face that both games suck the easy voice chat feature completely redeems them. Everyone is required to have a decent connection which means less drop-outs. Also, since players can't edit the game files there are no cheaters.

    Neither of the included games has any team-play aspect so chat generally is reduced to three phrases: "Fuck...I crashed", " Ha ha. I passed you"and "I win!". It will be interesting to see how it works out in Unreal Championchip and Battlefield 1942.
    • Also, since players can't edit the game files there are no cheaters.


      Tell that to the mass victims of PSO Gameshark hacking. They have codes that will lock up your DC, and when you reboot, your character is destroyed. A few weeks of fun and work, ruined because some 12 year old decided it'd be fun to imagine the look on your face.

      You can't even go online to play without linking up with people on GameFAQs boards and playing password protected games. Haven't been able to since like 3 months after release.

      Think just because it's a console people won't find a way to be lamearses? You are sorely underestimating the craftiness of the average lamearse.
    • I'm betting instead you'll hear these 3 phrases:

      "Fuck...I chrashed", "Ha ha. I fragged you" and "I own your ass bizzatch!"
    • You can leave feedback for players on Xbox live, negative feedback for people who swear or play cheap or quit in the middle of a game. I have not had any problems at all with people being rude or using bad language. If there is, I can mute them.

      I am loving every second of the beta actually. Im glad That only broadband is allowed, Im glad that devlopers and MS arent building their system to support other platforms. Im happy that every person will have the same exact hardware, config and same experience. This will all lead to the best possible gamign experience. If I want interoperability, If I want to change the game files, if I want to play against modem users, Ill use my freakin PC. I dont want to though, I hate PC gaming, I hate the small screen, I dont want a PC in my home theater, I dont like playing on a PC with 4 other people standing over my shoulder. PC gaming and consoles are 2 different arenas, XBoxLive is just what console gaming needs.

      Of all the Xbox live naysayers, how many of you hate MS with a passion? you are dismissed, How many of you Hate Xbox because you dont have one, you have PS2? You are also dismissed. of all you naysayers, how many of you are slamming it because everyone else does on slashdot? You are dismissed. Is anyone left over? Hmmm not really. Those people left who are still slamming Xbox Live, have you actually used the service yet?

      Keep an open mind, There is a world outside of slashdot and we are all very excited about online console gaming like Xbox live.
  • 1) telephony
    2) phone sex
    3) pizza ordering

  • in a nutshell (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Quirk ( 36086 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @03:31AM (#4392422) Homepage Journal
    I thought the following quote said it all: "The trick for Microsoft will be ensuring that lag remains a non-issue when the system opens up to a vastly larger player base."

    Latency doesn't add to the gaming experience and the net isn't always the most accomodating environment.
  • Has anyone at Microsoft ever played an online game? Even in moderated environments, the ratio of annoying/vulgar people to non-annoying/vulgar is about equal, and in games without moderation some of the conversation would make a Def Jam comedian blush. I don't know if they have technology that will allow them to spot and filter certain offensive words or phrases over voice (maybe they should buy the KGB), but this has public relations disaster written all over it.
    • negative

      people don't sue the phone company if somebody calls you up and vents their frustrations over the line

      if we've learned anything from reading /. we should know that MS will prolly have a clause in their Holy EULA about it

      "You say it, it's your business"

      and you still have the ability to block users and what you hear from them....if somebody was really really bad then MS could just kick-ban them

  • XBox Live = Bad implementation. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Viewsonic ( 584922 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @04:02AM (#4392469)
    First off, Microsofts gaming network is closed off. Meaning you wont be able to play with your PS/2 buddies in the same game, like GameCube and PS/2 owners are able to. Microsoft has made it a point that they don't want any of their online games to be cross compatable with the same games on other platforms. They pretty much lock you out from your friends and a larger player base. EA has dropped support for this simple fact. The "Our way, or the highway" attitude MicroSoft has had since inception carries on through their lousy online service. Second, you have to pay a fee! I'm sorry, but I think Nintendo went the right direction with their model. Basically they dont want to put a lot of effort into it because most of the online gaming is done on PCs, but they knew console kids would still want it available. So they let the game publishers decide if they want to charge or not. For the most part, all the games will be free much like Blizzards Battlenet games. No service to pay for! Hooray! Third, I have NO idea why XBox gets posted so dang much on Slashdot. It must be because the underdogs always are loved here or something. You would think they'd be more inclined to post PS/2 stories (Ie. the PS/2 Online stuff) over anything MICROSOFT .. Especially since there are Linux PS/2 Dev kits available that can do everything the MODDED XBox can out of the box.

    • Re:XBox Live = Bad implementation. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MikeyNg ( 88437 ) <mikeyng&gmail,com> on Saturday October 05, 2002 @08:07AM (#4392753) Homepage

      There's actually a good reason why Microsoft doesn't want Xbox Live! to be compatible with PS2 and GameCube games. They can guarantee that every Xbox will be using a broadband connection. They can not say the same about PS2 users nor GameCube users. If you want a good gaming experience, you want as little lag as possible, and broadband gives you that. Ensuring that everyone has a decent connection is a step in the right direction.


      And heaven forbid that they should charge money to try to recoup some of their costs! They're running dedicated servers. Do you think those come for free? You can look at this site [slashdot.org], and you know that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Do you also realize that these dedicated Live! servers will allow people to see across games? Let's say you're playing Tony Hawk and your friend wants to play a game of NBA2k3 with you. Your friend can notify you through your Xbox because the service sits on the server. Amazing stuff.


      Also, have you played on battle.net? I'll admit that they've done a superb job with the Warcraft III release, but EVERY release before then has been utterly horrid on the battle.net servers. The servers would lag for days while people would jump on or download the latest patch. The old adage of you get what you pay for is true.


      btw, it's PS2, not PS/2. The PS/2 is either a) your keyboard connector or b) an old IBM machine. Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine.


      The article really is not informative as to the whole Xbox Live! experience. So far everyone that I've heard from in the beta really enjoys it. Heck, even the guys at penny-arcade enjoy it. I am looking forward to November 15th myself.

      • And you certainly should look forward to it. I'm a beta tester myself and what I've played so far (not much, but picking up NFL 2k3 on Monday which is a football game I enjoy much more than Fever) has been great.

        The naysayers are, in the main, either fanboys, Microsoft haters (look for the "s" replaced with a "$") or both. I have all three current consoles and each has something to recommend it - for example: Animal Crossing (and most anything from Nintendo or Sega) is great, PS2 variety is amazing (Squaresoft, yum!) and XBox is flat-out [power/beauti]ful (the increased fidelity of cross-platform titles alone should recommend it to discriminating gamers).

        As an OT aside, I would humbly recommend Buffy the Vampire Slayer to anyone who enjoys a good third-person beat-'em-up, and particularly to those who also like Buffy.

    • EA dropped XBox Online support for one simple reason. They want to use there own servers and they want to charge the customers a monthly fee per game. Have you bought NHL 2003 or NBA 2003 for PC recently? You'll notice that they're charging you $5.99/month (w/free 60 days trial) for online play. And you know what the problem is? There servers suck and don't even work half of the time. If you don't believe me, just try it out.

      So tell me, which is better? Paying a fixed fee like $50/year for all online enabled games or paying like $5.99/month for each online game? I don't wanna end up paying $50/month just to play games.
    • First off, Microsofts gaming network is closed off.

      This is the best possible thing they could have done. Instead of users paying multiple fees to multiple companies, using different software with different functionality and UI's, dealing with different support channels, there is a single, unified system that's easy to use. When Joe is on the system playing one game, Jane can see him and join in. When I'm on my PS2 playing on EA's servers, my friend on Tecmo's servers won't be notified that I'm online.

  • Where do to start... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by OneFix ( 18661 )
    Lets look at this article and some of the facts.

    First, you are essentially getting a headset and a demo game for $50...

    Ok, now, you have to buy a REAL GAME for another $50...

    So...you've got $100 into the set to get a game and all the stuff to play online.

    Now, a year later, they will charge you for the "privilege" of using their servers. Now, I understand that they make back some costs by selling the service, and they can't offer this service totally for free, but doesn't this seem like an antiquated pricing scheme to anyone else?

    Look at PeeCee games like UT/Quake/etc...in most cases all of these games have free/cheap servers available either as a free download or in addition to the client (game). As a service to their customers, many ISPs offer "free servers". They don't mind doing this, because it is fairly cheap and it brings in the customers that spend 99% of their free time playing games.

    Now, I might understand having a centralized server for an RPG, but these games (most are sports games) would be helped dramatically by a localized server. The other thing is, making the server freely available forces pay services to offer higher quality, lower ping times, etc.

    The other problem with this is that when M$ brings out V2.0, how likely are they to support their old hardware? It's a known fact that even though UT2k3 is out now, there are still many UT servers out there...and will be for a long time.

    And the author even mentions what happens to be one of the biggest problems that has plagued online games...

    The experience, for the most part, has been an enjoyable one. Even though I'm regularly on the wrong end of a metaphorical butt-kicking, it's always fun to play console games against someone else.

    Even though the author seems to dismiss this as "ok", most ppl don't like paying $50 for an online game and getting their A$$ kicked 99% of the time. M$ should have forced all game manufacturers to implement a ranking system so that a novice player is *never* pitted against an expert. "OptiMatch" seems like it might TRY to fix this, but it obviously isn't working...what's to keep an expert from selecting a novice skill level?

    Of course, I just don't feel very good about giving M$ my CC# :)

    As for the actual features, I like the idea of voice masking...this would be kewl, especially for games like UT...but as the author of the article says, "it comes at the cost of making you harder to understand". And if OptiMatch actually works the way it should, it would be a very kewl feature.

    • Re:Where are do start to me? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rizzuh ( 594786 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @04:44AM (#4392523) Homepage
      So, in other words, MS can't really please you.

      You use a free ISP and got a free dsl modem. This is why MS should offer Xbox Live for free, not the over-price $50. Nevermind that it is in competition with the PS2 and nothing else; the PS2 charges $50 for the actual hardware: equivlancy.

      Many ISPs offer free game servers. Except you just made that up, because I have yet to see an ISP market this fact unless we're talking about Speakeasy.net (which doesn't even give out the IPs to their servers, they're mostly clan servers). Apparently ISPs do mind doing this, because they don't do it. Let's pretend we live in a fantasy world where there are free servers by ISPs; they're not very free if you're paying your ISP. With your logic, we could say that Xbox Live's servers are free. Of course, that would be a fair comparison which you simply wouldn't use.

      Localized servers. So instead of putting Xbox Live in the hands of Microsoft, you want to bet that your ISP will throw up free Xbox servers for you to play NFL on? We're talking broadband here, you can realistically get a 100ms travel time from your Xbox to MS to another Xbox. Replace realistically with almost always.

      So you're saying when Xbox 2 comes out, MS will stop accepting money? You're cynical in all the wrong places. It's also likely that Xbox 2 will play Xbox games like the PS2 does with PSOne games, I see no reason why Xbox Live wouldn't do the same. Otherwise they'd lose money/customers the instant Xbox 2 came out, and Microsoft doesn't like that.

      Even though the author seems to dismiss this as "ok", most ppl don't like paying $50 for an online game and getting their A$$ kicked 99% of the time.

      You have a perfect idea. That has never been successfully implemented anywhere and magically it's Microsoft's fault. I don't know how long you've been playing games (maybe you're more casual than I), but there is no way you can possibly improve by playing with people who are at the same skill level as you. If there's more than one super-duper player on the server, then you either really suck (which is okay, everyone gets better with time) or for some reason that's a "hardcore" server and you should try another one. Also, some games are team games where certain skills are more focused than others.

      BTW, I believe the author was joking. His wombat coordination skills wouldn't really hurt him that much in a football game.

      Now sorry if this sounded like a flame, but I just think far too many people treat MS unfairly in every single instance possible. Not only is Xbox Live a far more organized online platform compared to the PS2 (which has already launched, did you notice?), it'll increase the amount of people who have broadband (even by a slim margin), and it had some exciting titles in the future (unlike the PS2, which has a pretty clear calendar for 2003).

      But I will tell you that the PS2 is still the better system, and Xbox Live certainly won't get my money until Halo 2. Cheers.

      • The thing is, M$ opens themselves to critique like this when they try to pass off everything they do as "new and innovative"...

        As for the ISPs doing servers, I guess I must live in someplace where the ISPs just aren't "with the program"...because almost every ISP in the area offers some sort of online servers...this is good for them, because they only need to run a POS Win-Tel box and you're playing on their internal network...read not using their internet connection, so most of em encourage the use of their servers..."and bring your friends too...because you can get lower latency when both of you are on our network"

        Yea, Sony may charge similarly for their online hardware, but they're not charging for the use of it...

        Now, where did the "Free ISP and Free DSL Modem" come from? Yea, I want the ability to do a LAN game or play with my friend across town...

        And M$ will certainly be "crafty" when the XBox2 comes out...the XBox players will stop getting updates, they'll have different pricing categories for them, slower service, etc...if you think M$ has your best interest in mind, let me introduce you to their OS Life-Cycle [microsoft.com]...never mind that businesses don't want to switch from Win2k...

        If you want me to pay for the service, give me the hardware for free...M$ is hardly taking a hit on the hardware cost...it's just a cheap $10 headset+mic combo.

        And if M$ is marketing OptiMatch as a solution for the aforementioned problem, it deserves to be railed for not meeting my wishes.

        And yes, I am probably harder on M$...they have failed me before, every time they skrew their customers it makes me a little more cautious.

        Sony and Nintendo seem to be less devoted to skrewing their customers everytime they turn around...

        Now, if you're suggesting that M$ will be offering DSL for $50/yr then I just might sign up for that, but as far as I know you still need to buy your service from a local ISP (if it requires you to pay for MSN then the service should be free as well as the hardware)...
  • Everyone would have high quality broadband and Bawls would come in a cheaper 8oz can version. Unfortunately the world is not perfect and I only have dialup as an option despite being five miles outside of a city. I feel like a dumbass for buying a Xbox instead of a GameCube or PS2, atleast they are allowing dialup connections in their upcoming gaming services.
  • Be sure tune in next week.
    same "Bat time"
    Same "Bat Domain"

    honestly: what the heck.
    it was a good article, But for the love of god, I am not going to rember to check back next week, My atention span isn't that long.

  • Good chance of failure (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Q3vi1 ( 611292 )
    For all that Microsoft has going for them with the XBox, XBox Live I see as doomed to fail. There are just too many alternatives existing and in development now to replace what XBox Live can do. If it were harder for people to get connected without using the XBox Live service, then it would be a good example of how Battle.net is, only think of it as a pay service.
    Most of the people playing on Battle.net have been there since the beginning, and therefore don't see any reason to switch. People playing on BNetd servers see Battle.net as a bogged-down service that has little to no use for them if they can just play on the other BNetd servers with better ping times, etc. With the developments of the XBox Tunnel for GameSpy, there is going to be a hard sell to those people wanting to play online to pay for the service provided by The Devil's Own.
    Also, when are they going to come out with the XBox web browser? That would make things more interesting at least.
    • With the GameSpy thing you can't use the voice communicator, and that makes a big difference.

      It's just $50/year, it's no big deal. I mean EA charges $5.99/month for each of there new sport games (NHL, NBA, NFL, etc.) for online play.
  • From what I have read this is the gaming platform I have been waiting for/dreaming of sense my first video game experience. I just hope the QOS is good.
  • It offers you privacy (and, conceivably, lets children and women disguise their identity to avoid being harassed by other gamers) I guess it would sound like this when the testeron filled losers that play online here a female: . . . Nothing! Becuase they're to afraid to talk ;)

  • Ease of Use (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason.nashNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday October 05, 2002 @11:54AM (#4393320)
    To me $50 is a deal. You get the hardware and a year of gaming. If you don't want to pay to play don't. But, how many of you pay to play Everquest or something similar? The same rules apply here. MS is running servers on their side. The downsides are you have to pay and you can't play against other types of consoles. The upsides are that you can do full online stat tracking, find your friends in any game, set up tournaments, and have the same online identity anywhere.

    I'm VERY happy they limit this to broadband. The PS2 net play is getting slammed due to all the modem users lagging games and causing problems. I don't want that.

    It's a simple case of ease of use. Sure, someone could build a great Linux system by hand for CHEAP, but most people buy Windows since it's easier to deal with and does what they want. It's the same here. I'll pay for the convenience of it all. My beta kit should arrive next week and I can't wait to sit on my comfy couch in fron to fthe 64" HDTV and just play some good online games. No drivers. No patches. No "why did my game just die to the desktop"?
  • I'm just trying to imagine what gaming in a world where everyone can hear everyone else's voice would be like. Can anyone who has done this shed some insight?

    I mean, if people were to play EQ/DAOC/AC with universal voice communication, would a conversation still sound like this:

    Player1: Ding!
    Player2: Gratz
    Player3: Need to go afk a sec
    Player1: afk as well
    Player2: What was that sword drop?
    Player1: Back. Sword procs a DD and has a latent HoT.
    Player1: Back - Inc
    Player2: Add
    Player3: aggro!

    Somehow, I think if MMORPGers were plunged into a voice-communication MMORPG world, these written words would turn into spoken words and play delightful havoc with the language. But can anyone who's used this kind of service say if they do?
  • My XBOX was sitting on the shelf for quite a while. I'd kinda lost interest. Then my XBOX LIVE Beta kit showed up. Honestly ... it changed everything. I've stopped playing PC online games ... and the online XBOX experience is truly addictive. In my opinion, it's online done right for the console world.

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